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Absolutely agree.

I watch both Barca and Bayern, but honestly, if there is another game on TV I usually tune to that one because it's more even. But they even win in Europe effortlessly for the most part.

It's interesting that only recently Bayern started "shopping" outside of Germany. Their thing was always to buy the best players within Germany and dominate the Bundesliga that way.

I'm not sure what the rules in Italy are about the homegrown players. It's clear that they haven't been effective enough though and you are right...teams just put players on that list only to fill the quota. I'm not sure what else can be done....but really, I just think it's lack of long term planning.

Like I said, I'm glad and happy that we seem to be on the right path now. We are still not there, but it's impovement to know that we kept Donnarumma as a back up (and now he is starting), Mauri is there as a back up, Calabria is there instead of someone like Mesbah, we brought back Ely and kept him which is a lot better than paying someone 1-2mil a year to be a backup and maybe play 3-4 games a year, De Sciglio has stepped up from the youth system and has been serviceable, and we've also invested smartly into Romagnoli instead of blowing 7-8 mil on another Zapata and giving him 3+mil a year which essentially is going to cost us the same as having Romagnoli. I just hope we continue this trend and I'm convinced that it'll turn out good in the long run. I'm not expecting all the players that I mentioned above to turn world class, but even if they turn into a good supporting cast, that's good enough for me....because essentially that will free up funds for us to buy world class players.

We precisely didn't have money in the previous few years because we kept dishing out contracts to average players. Unfortunately the revenues in Italian football aren't as high as in the EPL for example so teams in England could care less if their lineups were made up of expensive foreign players (whether they are average or not). Italian football, with the current revenues won't be able to move up much if they don't start using their own talent more and using their funds on outside players only for ones that bring in a lot of quality.

For example, if Inter can't create a Messi, it's understandable. Even if they can't create a Bacca, it's understandable. But if they can't create a Nagatomo, than there's gotta be something wrong within the system. I just took those players as an example. All the teams are guilty of this. I just like to shit on Inter a bit. Big Grin

The fact is that it's unrealistic in this global day and age to expect things to be like they were in the 80s, where most of the players are homegrown. The world has moved on and everything is globalized. But to watch a game between two Italian teams and to see only 3 Italian players on the field is an indication to me that things aren't done the right way in Italy (again, knowing what the revenues and capabilities of the teams are and keeping that in mind). And it's not even just Italians, but their own youth players as a whole. I see no reason why Napoli and Inter each can't have 3-4 players from their own youth systems on the field. Simply the lack of trust in young players is astonishing in Italy.
Really interesting discussion by you guys here. I think with modern globalisation, you have to differentiate between Italian and homegrown players. Homegrown players don't have to be Italian, they can be of foreign origin. This is why in your point nefremo of only having 2 Italians on the pitch in the Napoli - Inter match isn't necessarily the best way to gauge the stats. You're not wrong at all mind, you're spot on, the clubs played with a lot players of the quality that surely could have been grown at home for a fraction of the cost. However, often the method that people use to measure this is fundamentally wrong, which is to look at the number of nationals in lineups.

In fact, Using this as a measuring point is imo limiting to how far you can cast your net to find the best talent. That isn't to say Italians shouldn't be targeted, after all, having a group of talented players of the same culture and traditions are likely to find it easier to form a bond and work with the same mindset. However, if you're talking about homegrown talents that will be a cost effective method of building a strong team, then the players nationality shouldn't be a primary focus.

Investing in foreign youth gives clubs a great chance to help them assimilate into the club and culture before they have the pressures of first team football. This, in addition to them potentially becoming naturalised and eligible to play for Italy may benefit the strength of the national side anyway.

The common factor in all these points and the crux of how Italy can potentially return to being one of the best, if not the best, is that investment and trust needs to be given to youth development. This serves multiple benefits to the nation, for example:

1) fundamentally increases the number of core skilled player eligible to play for Italy
2) increases the volume of talent in Italian football at the grassroots level
3) reduces costs for clubs to invest in more senior players (assuming they actually use their youth), meaning the investment can be focused on getting the very best talent
4) Develops players at an early age to fit into the club culture (thus giving room to grow the club culture)
5) More likely to find consistent levels of quality from generation to generation

That's just some of the examples, where there is no initial dependency on nationality of a player. This should be the focus for Italian clubs, they will inherently get more Italianas as a result anyway, simply because it's only natural that they would be scouting heavily in Italy. Point being, the number of Italians in a match between Napoli - Inter is simply a byproduct of how players are developed or purchased in Italy, it's not indicative of how well clubs develop homegrown talents.

Another point, something you guys touched on is the fact that it's cheaper to buy foreign players than Italian ones, which come at a "premium" cost. Again, that means that the number of Italians in a side isn't necessarily indicative of smart business sense. Milan are a great example actually, because if you look at the cost of Romagnoli and Bertolacci, they came at a premium cost and there's been a lot of debate on how much was spent for them. However, Milan's much more complex, as you also have Abate, Antonelli, Ely, Donnarumma, DES and Calabria, all of which have come at low costs or nothing, mostly because of their development in the Milan youth system. It's never just black and white, but usually a shade of grey.

Finally, I just wanted to say I don't think Italy's actually really struggling for quality players, but clubs not necessarily focusing on getting the best Italian players and some rather odd decision making on the national team imo results in it appearing weaker than it actually is.
I guess I spoke too soon about Milan heading the right way as we are on the verge of signing Boateng (if reports are to be believed).

Dev, I agree that it's not the same to talk about Italian youth players and home grown players. My initial post was about Italians in a Serie A game. I still think that it's a travesty that only 2 Italians were on the field in that game. It's a shame and it's an indication that clubs don't do enough with the young local players. I agree that people a lot of times measure homegrown talent the wrong way and only talk about Italians, when homegrown talent doesn't necessarily have to be Italian, like you said. I threw that in my posts because as a Milan fan I don't care where homegrown talent comes from, as long as it's homegrown. In any case, the issue in Italian football is still the lack of trust in young players (which by common sense, most youth players in Italy will happen to be Italian).

I agree with everything you said in your post. I, as a Milan fan, think that it'll be much more beneficial to the club if we were using homegrown talent (which by the way, again just by nature, will have a lot more Italians than players scouted at a young age from outside of'll of course than also help the Italian National team as well) regularly and using our transfer resources only on players that can bring huge quality to the team.
I agree it's kind of sad that you don't see more local players in these matches and I obviously agree about the lack of trust in young players in Italy, we've discussed it many times, though I'm hopeful that there's some small signs of change. Obviously this is evident at Milan, but Juve have also changed to having a younger squad this season and teams like Napoli are starting to get much more out of their younger players (notably Insigne and Jorginho).
Another routine win for Juventus. I think they've unfortunately found their feet now. Wouldn't even count them out of the Scudetto race IMO. They should comfortably make top 3 at the very least.
Well you know, sooner or later this was bound to happen.
Has Inter scored more than one goal in any given match this season?
Against Frosinone Big Grin

Btw Bologna beat Napoli today..
(12-06-2015, 03:49 PM)Mystik Wrote: [ -> ]Against Frosinone Big Grin

Btw Bologna beat Napoli today..

Aaah.. right.. against Carpi as well, though it was a 2-1.. so one goal difference Grinundwech

Surprising that Napoli lost.. didn't catch it, but obviously they controlled the match. and they are the form team in Serie A.

oh well, Inter will hold on at the top for atleast a week Allesmoegliche036
So, we are back to 8th. At least we are 1 point closer to Scudetto (9) than to Serie B (10). Rolleyes