Summer mercato 2012
(04-25-2012, 10:41 AM)Kastriot Wrote: So nobody is talking about the new ugly kit that officialy introduced couple of days ago?

Got mixed feelings about it. I prefer the less red&black stripes but I always hate the white collar
per l'amaro e il dolce
(04-25-2012, 10:41 AM)Kastriot Wrote: So nobody is talking about the new ugly kit that officialy introduced couple of days ago?

My Cricket club will love the collar...me I want the 93/94 kit back..all of it
(04-25-2012, 10:07 AM)GeoTav Wrote:
(04-25-2012, 09:51 AM)Sputnik Wrote: according to (the generally reliable) AC Milan News twitter feed, Gazzetta dello Sport claims that Milan could sell Boateng in order to finance the acquisition of a top coach or a top player.

If true, is that supposed to be a PLAN of a serious top class team?
Sell our best player? Why not sell Silva to Barcelona while we're at it?
I mean there's always room to loan a player from a second division French club, right?
Or Catania or something?

Boateng is a very important player for our team, but he's not our best player ... The fact is we play most of this season without him, and he has showed classy things in few games (but when he did, that was amazing).

If a club offers 30M+ for him, I think I would prefer our club accepts the offer and continues to build a new team ...

Actually, this season is almost a "normal season" for Boateng : playing amazingly well here and there, being injured quite often, and playing some games like a ghost (generally when coming back from injury). The surprise was his first season in Milan, very unexpected.

PS : It's maybe the plan ? Taking cheap players who will play well for one season, and sell them at a very high price then ?

Well Geo you might be right. Best is not the right word. One of the best then. And surely a modern footballer we should build upon, like Silva. His skills are mad, he is powerful, he can bloody RUN (unlike some of our players) and he doesn't hide in big matches. Injured, yes, for most of the time this season but I just can't put him in Pato category already. I disagree that this is a "normal Boateng season". You might be right on this one also but I have to see him play one more year to judge that properly. And he surely knows how to score some beautiful, beautiful goals.

I mean, if someone says "name 3-4 AC Milan players that could play in Barca, Real M., Bayern or Chelsea" then Boateng is one of them, I think.

(04-25-2012, 11:10 AM)Jay Crisp Wrote: [quote='Kastriot' pid='28951' dateline='1335346863']
So nobody is talking about the new ugly kit that officialy introduced couple of days ago?

My Cricket club will love the collar...me I want the 93/94 kit back..all of it

Could be worse. I opened a thread about that in Discussions section.
Let the gentle war of fashion begin. Sagrin
i hope this bullshit about boateng is fake. so we are going to sell a very good midfielder when midfield is our weakest area?? come on.

about aquilani, i agree he needs to go back to liverpool. i had high hopes for him, but he showed pretty much nothing.
(04-25-2012, 10:41 AM)Kastriot Wrote: So nobody is talking about the new ugly kit that officialy introduced couple of days ago?

I don't know, it's ok though I've always preferred thinner stripes than thick ones. Can't say I hate it though.

(04-25-2012, 10:59 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Only going to reply the Ibra part.

Well, my other post actually explained why I think the bad results from Milan is not a direct result of Ibra playing bad.

I know you and some other journalist kept using stats to say the general play of the team is better and it is not like Milan can't win without Ibra, and other players tend to step up more instead of sending the ball to Ibra. However, what I had been saying is that, due to injuries and forms, who really stepped up this season for Milan beside Ibra?

Last year, when Ibra was suspended, Slowdorf, Cassano and Boateng really played well to pick up the creative role and offense role for Milan. However, they pretty much played the same even before and after Ibra's suspension. So it is unfair to say it was a direct result of Ibra's absence. Robinho plays did became more lively without Ibra last season but they often never materialize into scoring chances. I think the only player who really shine when Ibra is not playing is Pato, but same can be said the other around.

As for this season, who stepped up beside Ibra? Robinho is like Slowdorf, who will have a great game followed by crappy games with or without Ibra. Slowdorf might have only played 3 good games all year. Boateng has been injured. While Pato is too busy being at the Doctor's office. Cassano got his heart thing.

As I mentioned in my other post. If the team is healthy, I believe they could play better without Ibra, but with all the injuries this season, if it were not for Ibra, Milan will not even be 3 pts behind Juve, they might actually be 3 pts behind Lazio. Abate will not become Cafu if Ibra is not around, nor would Muntari, Urby, Nocerino and Ambro start playing like Cesc, Xavi, Iniesta and Thiago all b/c Ibra is on the bench and suddenly these players realize their true potential.

If results are still positive when Ibra's not around, then players must be generally stepping up to get those results. This season, I remember when Ibra was out suspended, Robinho generally played better during that period, El Shaarawy got more chances to show his ability and Maxi did help the side a great deal. Add to this players like Nocerino, Urby and Muntari who also did well during that period and it's possible to see that while we didn't have the greatest players, our results don't necessarily depend on Ibra and our team play often improves when he's out, as if I remember correctly it was around this period that we were at our best this season. Our opposition were no pushovers either, we beat Udinese 2-1 (the match that many consider turned our season around), 3-1 away to Cesena and 1-1 with Juve where we were desperately unlucky.

You said it yourself, we've not had many players to fallback on due to injury for when Ibra's been out, but even without them our results didn't falter. If I go a step further and think ahead to next season, we can assume that our injury situation won't be worse next season (it simply can't be) and we shouldn't even assume it will be the same as this season. Also, while I'm suggesting we don't need Ibra, I'm not saying that if we sell him we should keep what we have. We'd have to replace him with someone of very high quality who can lead our attack, meaning an influential player who can take on a large amount of responsibility.
In a completely parallel universe we should buy Gareth Bale and Van Persie.
(04-25-2012, 12:20 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote:
(04-25-2012, 10:59 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Only going to reply the Ibra part.

Well, my other post actually explained why I think the bad results from Milan is not a direct result of Ibra playing bad.

I know you and some other journalist kept using stats to say the general play of the team is better and it is not like Milan can't win without Ibra, and other players tend to step up more instead of sending the ball to Ibra. However, what I had been saying is that, due to injuries and forms, who really stepped up this season for Milan beside Ibra?

Last year, when Ibra was suspended, Slowdorf, Cassano and Boateng really played well to pick up the creative role and offense role for Milan. However, they pretty much played the same even before and after Ibra's suspension. So it is unfair to say it was a direct result of Ibra's absence. Robinho plays did became more lively without Ibra last season but they often never materialize into scoring chances. I think the only player who really shine when Ibra is not playing is Pato, but same can be said the other around.

As for this season, who stepped up beside Ibra? Robinho is like Slowdorf, who will have a great game followed by crappy games with or without Ibra. Slowdorf might have only played 3 good games all year. Boateng has been injured. While Pato is too busy being at the Doctor's office. Cassano got his heart thing.

As I mentioned in my other post. If the team is healthy, I believe they could play better without Ibra, but with all the injuries this season, if it were not for Ibra, Milan will not even be 3 pts behind Juve, they might actually be 3 pts behind Lazio. Abate will not become Cafu if Ibra is not around, nor would Muntari, Urby, Nocerino and Ambro start playing like Cesc, Xavi, Iniesta and Thiago all b/c Ibra is on the bench and suddenly these players realize their true potential.

If results are still positive when Ibra's not around, then players must be generally stepping up to get those results. This season, I remember when Ibra was out suspended, Robinho generally played better during that period, El Shaarawy got more chances to show his ability and Maxi did help the side a great deal. Add to this players like Nocerino, Urby and Muntari who also did well during that period and it's possible to see that while we didn't have the greatest players, our results don't necessarily depend on Ibra and our team play often improves when he's out, as if I remember correctly it was around this period that we were at our best this season. Our opposition were no pushovers either, we beat Udinese 2-1 (the match that many consider turned our season around), 3-1 away to Cesena and 1-1 with Juve where we were desperately unlucky.

You said it yourself, we've not had many players to fallback on due to injury for when Ibra's been out, but even without them our results didn't falter. If I go a step further and think ahead to next season, we can assume that our injury situation won't be worse next season (it simply can't be) and we shouldn't even assume it will be the same as this season. Also, while I'm suggesting we don't need Ibra, I'm not saying that if we sell him we should keep what we have. We'd have to replace him with someone of very high quality who can lead our attack, meaning an influential player who can take on a large amount of responsibility.

When you talked about results, here are the stats for this year.

In Serie A, 33 matches played.
Ibra played 27matches, 17W, 4L, 6D
W/Out Ibra, 6 matches, 3W, 2D, 1L

Statistics speaking,
Milan with Ibra is 63% win, 22% D and 15% loses
W/out Ibra is 50% win, 33% D and 17% loses

In CL, Milan played a total of 10 games.
With Ibra, 3W, 3L and 2D
W/out Ibra, 2D.

In a way, Milan can't win without Ibra in CL, but at the same time, they can't lose either.

I am not going into detail of how each of those games were won, draw or lose, bc then it will have too many factors and variables.

Dev, you might think that Milan played their best during the 3 games Ibra was suspended. But to me, it was the period from mid October to Dec, where Milan pretty much beat anyone and scoring around 2 goals each match, I think their only bad games were against Juve and Viola in the league and that Draw with one of the others CL teams in the group.

As for thinking ahead, well, I agree with what you said but at the same time,
why replace your primary offensive output with someone who is equally talent but might not gel well with the current team and other new players then just get better players to suit both Allegri's system to support Ibra and take it from there.
B/c I know that if Milan actually were healthy and did manage to get someone like Vidal or Honda(in Jan), or a dream signing like Hamsik or Hernanes, Milan at this moment could very well be in a position for a treble winning season.

(04-25-2012, 01:52 PM)Sputnik Wrote: In a completely parallel universe we should buy Gareth Bale and Van Persie.

I think in that Universe, Hunter would have stayed, Leo would have gotten Hernanes right out of Sao Paolo, and Kaka managed to come back to Milan b/c Real needs to balance their book.
(04-25-2012, 12:08 PM)Sputnik Wrote: Well Geo you might be right. Best is not the right word. One of the best then. And surely a modern footballer we should build upon, like Silva. His skills are mad, he is powerful, he can bloody RUN (unlike some of our players) and he doesn't hide in big matches. Injured, yes, for most of the time this season but I just can't put him in Pato category already. I disagree that this is a "normal Boateng season". You might be right on this one also but I have to see him play one more year to judge that properly. And he surely knows how to score some beautiful, beautiful goals.

I mean, if someone says "name 3-4 AC Milan players that could play in Barca, Real M., Bayern or Chelsea" then Boateng is one of them, I think.

When I said a "normal season" for him, I meant he tends to get injuries ... I posted somewhere on the forum the history of his injuries, and you could notice that he got injuries almost each season around January and then had some other minor injuries after that, wasting the end of each of these seasons (at least, not helping him to play at his best).

Last year, he managed to keep fit for most of the season, and it looks like he/we have paid it this season as he's been out for most of the current season.

That's sad, but I think selling him for a high price could benefit us IF we get some solid midfielders (and with various skills) who are not known as injury prone ...

If we keep him, I'll be happy.

(04-25-2012, 12:20 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: If results are still positive when Ibra's not around, then players must be generally stepping up to get those results. This season, I remember when Ibra was out suspended, Robinho generally played better during that period, El Shaarawy got more chances to show his ability and Maxi did help the side a great deal. Add to this players like Nocerino, Urby and Muntari who also did well during that period and it's possible to see that while we didn't have the greatest players, our results don't necessarily depend on Ibra and our team play often improves when he's out, as if I remember correctly it was around this period that we were at our best this season. Our opposition were no pushovers either, we beat Udinese 2-1 (the match that many consider turned our season around), 3-1 away to Cesena and 1-1 with Juve where we were desperately unlucky.

You said it yourself, we've not had many players to fallback on due to injury for when Ibra's been out, but even without them our results didn't falter. If I go a step further and think ahead to next season, we can assume that our injury situation won't be worse next season (it simply can't be) and we shouldn't even assume it will be the same as this season. Also, while I'm suggesting we don't need Ibra, I'm not saying that if we sell him we should keep what we have. We'd have to replace him with someone of very high quality who can lead our attack, meaning an influential player who can take on a large amount of responsibility.

Actually, I think Ibra must be kept ... Nowadays, he's our best player. He sometimes disappears from games, but we can't expect him to be good in each game when he gets no rest.

I think we need to keep this player, because he wins points, a lot of points, for our team, but Allegri, if he's still our coach next season, will have to rest him sometimes and create other ways to play ... This way, Ibra will be the player who will give us important points, he will be our positive "surplus" ...

And joining both discussions : why not trying to put Ibra behind the strikers ? It's obvious Ibra becomes a bit lazy, compared to his "old days" when he was really running (Juventus days for example), so having a guy like him in the center could be something interesting, especially because he's able to keep the ball thanks to his technical skills, and he won't be physically outplayed.

So if Boateng was to be sold, I'd try right after that Ibra in that position ... If I have some time, I'll try to make some schemes to explain why I think it could work.

PS : It's a cheap solution for our management ... Sell Boateng, keep Ibra, don't buy a new AM (Robinho or Cassano or other could do it too, in other ways), and just use the money for the other positions (CM/DM, LB) as we would still have enough strikers in our team ...
One should not speak ill of the dead.
So stop laughing at Juventus !
Geo, if you put Ibra behind the strikers then who is going to help out the midfield when the opposition is attacking? Unless if you want to play 3 DM's behind the 3 strikers but then I don't think that has worked out too well for us either. I don't think we can get around our lack of a really creative midfielder..
Siamo a posto cosi.
(04-25-2012, 01:54 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: When you talked about results, here are the stats for this year.

In Serie A, 33 matches played.
Ibra played 27matches, 17W, 4L, 6D
W/Out Ibra, 6 matches, 3W, 2D, 1L

Statistics speaking,
Milan with Ibra is 63% win, 22% D and 15% loses
W/out Ibra is 50% win, 33% D and 17% loses

In CL, Milan played a total of 10 games.
With Ibra, 3W, 3L and 2D
W/out Ibra, 2D.

In a way, Milan can't win without Ibra in CL, but at the same time, they can't lose either.

I am not going into detail of how each of those games were won, draw or lose, bc then it will have too many factors and variables.

Dev, you might think that Milan played their best during the 3 games Ibra was suspended. But to me, it was the period from mid October to Dec, where Milan pretty much beat anyone and scoring around 2 goals each match, I think their only bad games were against Juve and Viola in the league and that Draw with one of the others CL teams in the group.

As for thinking ahead, well, I agree with what you said but at the same time,
why replace your primary offensive output with someone who is equally talent but might not gel well with the current team and other new players then just get better players to suit both Allegri's system to support Ibra and take it from there.
B/c I know that if Milan actually were healthy and did manage to get someone like Vidal or Honda(in Jan), or a dream signing like Hamsik or Hernanes, Milan at this moment could very well be in a position for a treble winning season.


Do you have the stats from since Ibra joined, rather than just this year? I concede though I was wrong on the stats of this season.

I wasn't too pleased with most of our performances this season if I'm honest. Only really during the period I mentioned before did I feel we were close to achieving what we should be doing. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that matter, it's subjective and we all have our opinions.

As to why I think we should replace our primary attacking weapon, I would argue because I think he holds too much power in this side. He gets us many results, but at the same time I feel we're too reliant on him and it affects us badly at times (Fiorentina, Chievo and particularly Bologna being recent examples). I always think about what Sacchi has said since around the time Ibra went to Barca, and that is he's too much of a soloist.

As I'm sure you'll know, this isn't the first time I've doubted him, as last summer I was discussing with you this exact same debate.

(04-25-2012, 02:08 PM)GeoTav Wrote: Actually, I think Ibra must be kept ... Nowadays, he's our best player. He sometimes disappears from games, but we can't expect him to be good in each game when he gets no rest.

I think we need to keep this player, because he wins points, a lot of points, for our team, but Allegri, if he's still our coach next season, will have to rest him sometimes and create other ways to play ... This way, Ibra will be the player who will give us important points, he will be our positive "surplus" ...

And joining both discussions : why not trying to put Ibra behind the strikers ? It's obvious Ibra becomes a bit lazy, compared to his "old days" when he was really running (Juventus days for example), so having a guy like him in the center could be something interesting, especially because he's able to keep the ball thanks to his technical skills, and he won't be physically outplayed.

So if Boateng was to be sold, I'd try right after that Ibra in that position ... If I have some time, I'll try to make some schemes to explain why I think it could work.

PS : It's a cheap solution for our management ... Sell Boateng, keep Ibra, don't buy a new AM (Robinho or Cassano or other could do it too, in other ways), and just use the money for the other positions (CM/DM, LB) as we would still have enough strikers in our team ...

Ibra behind the forwards is interesting but as Mystik said there are other issues with this due to his defensive workrate (or lack of it).

I think Ibra's biggest issue is his mentality. It seems impossible to keep him balanced all season, and that's when his highs and lows come in. Allegri's acknowledged this and done better than most to manage it in recent years, but I just think it's part of the package. He's our best player, but again this raises problems as I've said before, as the team doesn't work with him so much it works for him.

I think my argument all comes down to me becoming sick of Ibra's influence in the side. I think he's given more power than any player should have and his constant highs and lows (both form and mentally) makes it difficult to maintain consistency in the side. I think this is why he's never won the CL, because the teams he's in always play to him and if they don't he struggles. Like Inter and Barca, I'm confident we can move on to better things if we sell him on.