Winter Mercato January 2016
#11
Thanks Hasan, hope so otherwise the way Berlusconi acts it is bankruptcy level, he is conducting it more than just being cheap in my opinion.

Also the way I see this Mr Bee and him are heading for internal conflict after the deal is done. 48% is more than just minor partner but Berlusconi won't probably act that way. I am curious to see who will on the new board and how smoothly future decisions are approved.
#12
Maybe this thread isn't necessary?

http://football-italia.net/72462/zenit-s...n-juventus

“Maybe Milan, Juventus or some other club deserves a ban of a couple of years. If we discover that a club has contacted the player without our agreement, we’re ready to write to UEFA.”
#13
(09-02-2015, 05:30 PM)Arildonardo Wrote: Maybe this thread isn't necessary?

http://football-italia.net/72462/zenit-s...n-juventus

“Maybe Milan, Juventus or some other club deserves a ban of a couple of years. If we discover that a club has contacted the player without our agreement, we’re ready to write to UEFA.”

Russians playing hardball Smile
#14
I might be stupidly optimistic, but I really don't know if Bee's money ended up being a huge factor in the end. Despite the recent market fluctuation in China, its economy is not necessarily headed for a huge depression. Sure, some of the Chinese investors probably lost a bit of money the last month, but they still gained a bit if you look at it over the last two years. Not to mention, Bee's binding document must have some serious penalty regarding to one side pulling out of the deal. And it is fair to assume he would not want to pay tens of millions in penalties for nothing.

I think what it really came down to was Galliani misjudging the situation entirely and Berlu's unhappiness with the return on his investment. Galliani, as usual, wasted money on targets that are not worth it, and waited until the last minute to move for Witsel. Zenit, for good reasons, refused, since they had no time left to even find a replacement. Galliani thinks Zenit is some Genoa-like team out in Russia, but Zenit is a championship level team and didn't want to screw up their own season with the deal.

Berlu, on the other hand, was probably seriously pissed after how we played the first two games and started questioning the plan we had in place for the team. Though I am by no means a Berlu fan, I do think he has a point there. While we certainly are not the most talented team in Serie A, we are a lot better than what we showed in those two games. If a coach is not capable of turning 90M into a winning team, then in all honesty, what would another 20M really do for him? I am not blaming Miha or anything, as I think this current bad form is part of the process and we will make major improvements as the season progresses. But the doubt is probably a little justified too. Now Miha needs to figure out a way to get what he has on hand to work together as a team. It is not an easy job, but this team does have its fair share of talented players and we need to show some progress in order to have another injection of budget.
#15
(09-02-2015, 02:27 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: So Mexes' agent says Mexes wanted Fiorentina and Berlusconi said no. He also said that Mexes wanted to go because Miha doesn't appear to want him (Miha has done little to hide this) and Sousa did.

I remember Miha and Mexes shared a laughter by the sideline after the latter scored a fantastic goal against Inter this summer. Then Miha kicked Mexes on the backside. Was that a half-joke?
free loan with option to buy ™
#16
(09-03-2015, 01:05 AM)slifersd Wrote: Berlu, on the other hand, was probably seriously pissed after how we played the first two games and started questioning the plan we had in place for the team. Though I am by no means a Berlu fan, I do think he has a point there. While we certainly are not the most talented team in Serie A, we are a lot better than what we showed in those two games. If a coach is not capable of turning 90M into a winning team, then in all honesty, what would another 20M really do for him? I am not blaming Miha or anything, as I think this current bad form is part of the process and we will make major improvements as the season progresses. But the doubt is probably a little justified too. Now Miha needs to figure out a way to get what he has on hand to work together as a team. It is not an easy job, but this team does have its fair share of talented players and we need to show some progress in order to have another injection of budget.

I agree with you. The midfielders must be trained harder to work according to a well-defined strategy than blaming on a lack of new transfers, especially when the desired players are just Soranio or (even) Witsel. I don't remember a big team that are serious about signing Witsel.

Montolivo is still the most creative player in Italy (bar Pirlo), De Jong is still capable of being a destroyer, the rest are all international players, which means it is hard to believe that we lost to Empoli in the mid. And Miha already have a whole summer to sort things out.

Since we can not sign anyone in the near future, I'm looking forward to seeing the hard work of our coach and players.
#17
Sorry, but I cannot agree with what some of you are saying here.

Montolivo may be a creative player, but he's slow, takes too much time making decisions for passes and ends up doing a crappy job at dictating play, especially when being pressured on the ball. He cannot play the way that De Rossi, Totti, Pirlo or other top playmakers play, because he simply lacks the ability to make quick decisions to either move the ball forward, or to make that killer pass quick enough. Too many times I've seen play break down because he took too long on the ball, and had to end up passing back to our defense, or sideways to De Jong or any of our other players.

De Jong is a capable destroyer, yes, but what makes you think that our other mids are NT quality? Honda has done a decent job thus far, I'll admit, but the likes of Poli, Nocerino, Bertolacci and even Jack at times, have not. Sure they may have a few NT call-ups under their belt, but by no means are they even considered starters in the teams that they've played in (and consider this, Italy's NT is currently quite weak). So by no means is being an "International player" some sort of benchmark for success.

Also, had Miha really been serious about making a positive statement the Empoli game, he would have started our Fiorentina formation from the start. THAT was (and currently still is) our strongest lineup.
He started Suso and Nocerino, for fucks sake, and had to take both off within an hour. I don't care what anyone else things, but Miha was obviously making a big-ass statement to management about just how shit our bench midfielders were. We all saw how many passes were going sideways and backwards, the complete opposite to our matches before this.

You cannot blame Miha for not being able to properly coach a bunch of incompetent players that CANNOT be taught in the first place. International players or not, they just don't have the right qualities to start or to make a difference in our shirt. Miha has been trying to show this to the management from day one. He did the same when exposing our defensive frailties to Bayern and Tottenham (which enabled us to grab Romagnoli). It's management's fault for not paying attention.

Miha took a look at our midfield, deemed them unfit for his system, made the proper requests, and didn't get the players he wanted, who's to be blamed for that?

I blame Berlu and Galliani for everything up till now. The midfield should have been the FIRST issue after our defense that we needed to address, but because we're an "Italian" team with mediocre "Italian" midfielders, Berlu let his bias get the best of him. He should have let Mexes leave for Fiorentina, kept Rami and brought in the Mids that we needed. Then we wouldn't be sitting around here right now, hoping that the midfield situation gets sorted in the Winter. No, we'd be sitting here eagerly waiting for the next match to come around so we could beat the shit out of our opponents.



As for the situation in China, you cannot say that losing a lot of money in the last month should offset the amounts made in previous years. Fact is, if Bee only managed to compile enough money at the beginning of THIS summer to make a serious purchase for a stake in Milan, that means he spent a long time just acquiring said money. As an accountant I can appreciate how hard it is to create financial budgets and long-term investment plans for companies and the like, and the financial "blip" as you so call it, wasn't as small a blip as you might think. The last couple of months wiped off between 20-50% of assets for quite a lot of companies and individuals in the Asian region. There was even a week where my colleagues were forwarding posts on the daily about yet another set of individuals losing all their investments, ending up in the red and then jumping off buildings to run away from their debts. Many companies (including my own) had to hold days of financial restructuring meetings in order to minimize their effects. By no means was the stock crash a small issue.

The fact that there had only been a few weeks delay in Bee's deal instead of them pulling out entirely, should be put down to good crisis management on Bee and his consortium's part. You really cannot predict anything on the markets anymore these days, you can only react to them and take risks as you see fit. Because of this, I can't blame Berlu so much for pulling the plug on investments at the end of the mercato, when everything was in such an uncertain state.

What I do blame him and Baldy for, is that they didn't address the midfield at the beginning of the mercato like they SHOULD HAVE, right after losing Kodongbia to Merda.
We got the young 'un's. We take out big gunz  Devilcool
#18
(09-03-2015, 08:34 AM)Ryo Wrote: Sorry, but I cannot agree with what some of you are saying here.

Montolivo may be a creative player, but he's slow, takes too much time making decisions for passes and ends up doing a crappy job at dictating play, especially when being pressured on the ball. He cannot play the way that De Rossi, Totti, Pirlo or other top playmakers play, because he simply lacks the ability to make quick decisions to either move the ball forward, or to make that killer pass quick enough. Too many times I've seen play break down because he took too long on the ball, and had to end up passing back to our defense, or sideways to De Jong or any of our other players.

De Jong is a capable destroyer, yes, but what makes you think that our other mids are NT quality? Honda has done a decent job thus far, I'll admit, but the likes of Poli, Nocerino, Bertolacci and even Jack at times, have not. Sure they may have a few NT call-ups under their belt, but by no means are they even considered starters in the teams that they've played in (and consider this, Italy's NT is currently quite weak). So by no means is being an "International player" some sort of benchmark for success.

Also, had Miha really been serious about making a positive statement the Empoli game, he would have started our Fiorentina formation from the start. THAT was (and currently still is) our strongest lineup.
He started Suso and Nocerino, for fucks sake, and had to take both off within an hour. I don't care what anyone else things, but Miha was obviously making a big-ass statement to management about just how shit our bench midfielders were. We all saw how many passes were going sideways and backwards, the complete opposite to our matches before this.

You cannot blame Miha for not being able to properly coach a bunch of incompetent players that CANNOT be taught in the first place. International players or not, they just don't have the right qualities to start or to make a difference in our shirt. Miha has been trying to show this to the management from day one. He did the same when exposing our defensive frailties to Bayern and Tottenham (which enabled us to grab Romagnoli). It's management's fault for not paying attention.

Miha took a look at our midfield, deemed them unfit for his system, made the proper requests, and didn't get the players he wanted, who's to be blamed for that?

I blame Berlu and Galliani for everything up till now. The midfield should have been the FIRST issue after our defense that we needed to address, but because we're an "Italian" team with mediocre "Italian" midfielders, Berlu let his bias get the best of him. He should have let Mexes leave for Fiorentina, kept Rami and brought in the Mids that we needed. Then we wouldn't be sitting around here right now, hoping that the midfield situation gets sorted in the Winter. No, we'd be sitting here eagerly waiting for the next match to come around so we could beat the shit out of our opponents.



As for the situation in China, you cannot say that losing a lot of money in the last month should offset the amounts made in previous years. Fact is, if Bee only managed to compile enough money at the beginning of THIS summer to make a serious purchase for a stake in Milan, that means he spent a long time just acquiring said money. As an accountant I can appreciate how hard it is to create financial budgets and long-term investment plans for companies and the like, and the financial "blip" as you so call it, wasn't as small a blip as you might think. The last couple of months wiped off between 20-50% of assets for quite a lot of companies and individuals in the Asian region. There was even a week where my colleagues were forwarding posts on the daily about yet another set of individuals losing all their investments, ending up in the red and then jumping off buildings to run away from their debts. Many companies (including my own) had to hold days of financial restructuring meetings in order to minimize their effects. By no means was the stock crash a small issue.

The fact that there had only been a few weeks delay in Bee's deal instead of them pulling out entirely, should be put down to good crisis management on Bee and his consortium's part. You really cannot predict anything on the markets anymore these days, you can only react to them and take risks as you see fit. Because of this, I can't blame Berlu so much for pulling the plug on investments at the end of the mercato, when everything was in such an uncertain state.

What I do blame him and Baldy for, is that they didn't address the midfield at the beginning of the mercato like they SHOULD HAVE, right after losing Kodongbia to Merda.

So you think Berlusconi made a crisis calculation after the stock crash, and got the result that it's better to stop all investments now and risk not getting into the CL, than invest some more and have guarantees of CL football and much more income? What kind of money are we talking about when we speak CL football?
#19
You need to factor in several issues, first is that we manage to get into the top 2, which based on last year's standings was a race between Roma and Juve, with no one else coming close to them at all. Even with our investments, there's no assured 2nd place in this league, because teams around us have also managed to strengthen and evolve. m

Just getting to a CL playoff spot doesn't guarantee CL football, you might still end up in the playoffs against teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Leverkusen, Schalke, Valencia, Dortmund and the like. We haven't been playing CL in 2 years, and coefficients for seeding regard our last European record for the last 5 years only. There are plenty of uncertainties regarding just getting into the CL proper alone for us.

Getting into the CL group stages ensures us 30M in revenues, but even if we were to make it there next year, we won't be seeing any money from UEFA until 2 years down the road.
With all those uncertainties of the above, does it make sense that Berlu should risk spending +80M of his own money, given the chance that Bee may have pulled out from the deal, and get nothing in return for the next 2 years?


Take a look at our finances. Even with a plan to build a stadium, we are still paying rent to the government of Milan for the San Siro, along with maintenance costs and all that, for the next 3-4 years at least. Even with full-house ticket sales (which won't happen), we still won't be making much money from there.

We were in the red up till 3 years back when we sold off Ibra and Thiago. Then we spent 3 years doing shitty accounting maneuvers to acquire players (paid up in 4-5 year installments, meaning we are STILL paying for some players transfer fees up until this day, even if said player has already been thrown away or loaned out by us). Just how much money do you really think Berlu has in his coffers that he would want to spend on a club that's been slowly bleeding money?

Why do you think that he would willingly spend so much this summer and not in the previous 3? Obviously its because he wants to make the investment of Milan look good to a potential buyer, given that there actually IS one right now. And we are talking about 485M Euros, which is no small sum of money.

However, once there are uncertainties in the market, leading to a very real risk that NO investments would come into the club (as there was once the crisis hit), then he had to stop all projects and rethink his strategy.

I don't know if I explained it sufficiently, but of course there are also many other factors that would have stopped Berlu's investing spree.

Running and financing a club, and all the external factors affecting it, is more complex than just taking a hundred million euros and spending it, especially in this day and age.
We got the young 'un's. We take out big gunz  Devilcool
#20
(09-03-2015, 12:19 PM)Ryo Wrote: You need to factor in several issues, first is that we manage to get into the top 2, which based on last year's standings was a race between Roma and Juve, with no one else coming close to them at all. Even with our investments, there's no assured 2nd place in this league, because teams around us have also managed to strengthen and evolve. m

Just getting to a CL playoff spot doesn't guarantee CL football, you might still end up in the playoffs against teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Leverkusen, Schalke, Valencia, Dortmund and the like. We haven't been playing CL in 2 years, and coefficients for seeding regard our last European record for the last 5 years only. There are plenty of uncertainties regarding just getting into the CL proper alone for us.

Getting into the CL group stages ensures us 30M in revenues, but even if we were to make it there next year, we won't be seeing any money from UEFA until 2 years down the road.
With all those uncertainties of the above, does it make sense that Berlu should risk spending +80M of his own money, given the chance that Bee may have pulled out from the deal, and get nothing in return for the next 2 years?


Take a look at our finances. Even with a plan to build a stadium, we are still paying rent to the government of Milan for the San Siro, along with maintenance costs and all that, for the next 3-4 years at least. Even with full-house ticket sales (which won't happen), we still won't be making much money from there.

We were in the red up till 3 years back when we sold off Ibra and Thiago. Then we spent 3 years doing shitty accounting maneuvers to acquire players (paid up in 4-5 year installments, meaning we are STILL paying for some players transfer fees up until this day, even if said player has already been thrown away or loaned out by us). Just how much money do you really think Berlu has in his coffers that he would want to spend on a club that's been slowly bleeding money?

Why do you think that he would willingly spend so much this summer and not in the previous 3? Obviously its because he wants to make the investment of Milan look good to a potential buyer, given that there actually IS one right now. And we are talking about 485M Euros, which is no small sum of money.

However, once there are uncertainties in the market, leading to a very real risk that NO investments would come into the club (as there was once the crisis hit), then he had to stop all projects and rethink his strategy.

I don't know if I explained it sufficiently, but of course there are also many other factors that would have stopped Berlu's investing spree.

Running and financing a club, and all the external factors affecting it, is more complex than just taking a hundred million euros and spending it, especially in this day and age.

I see your point, however I still think that spending 90M then withdraw the other 20-30M that could make all your investments seem like serious stuff, not makes much sense. No matter if the primary target is CL football or finding buyers, you'll want to make the 90M spent on your team look like good investment. Because if you don't, you'll look like an idiot, just like Berlu and Galliani look like now, in my opinion at least.