Would a side with wingers have overrun Argentina in 1986 World Cup?
#1
Just for the sake of discussion, i decided to bring this up

one of the aspect of this beautiful game is the tactics, i love seeing how teams can utilise their tactics based on the kind of players they have regardless of world class players that a team has. IMO tactics matters more to me than the quality of players that are in the team because it enables creativity in the game

anyway, i have managed to watch most of the matches Argentina played in 86 World Cup and i noticed they were playing 3-5-2 with Maradona as the nominal striker and playmaker. i think this must have been one of Bobby Robson's regret for not starting with wingers that will help support Lineker with crosses for him to score.

Argentina's defensive weakness wasnt exposed until Sir Bobby threw in John Barnes and Waddle after conceding two goals, later on Lineker converted Barnes cross into a goal and i think Argentina were lucky enough to scale through to semi-final because they fail cut out the supply to Barnes and Waddle who were running riot in the field. also luckily enough Argentina played against belgium who have no wingers that is able to expose their tactical system out.

West germany were in uneasy trransition to 3-5-2 tactics which was exported from South America whom are familiar with it, hence why Argentina had no problem winning the final. Mathaus was tasked with marking Maradona, who was barely was kept relatively quiet, but he also neutralised Matthäus, dragging him so deep that West Germany had four central defenders. With two holders in front of the back line, that left them shorn of creativity and left Magath isolated, with the result that he was barely involved.

it was after Argentina's second goal that Mathaus was released from his duties and West germany began to play well and exposing their weakness> West germany levelled the score to 2-2 as a result but refused to resort to negativity and left space for Maradona to expose them laying a pass for burruchaga to score

it seems their success was freakish but Maradona's popularity seems to have eclipsed their weakness.

What do you think?
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#2
Well i wish I was around to see the greatest ever football at his prime.

By the way, if Argentina or any other top football playing Nation appoints me as their head coach, I would deliver them the World Cup. No I am not joking Angel
Argentina will win the World Cup 2018

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#3
I had not started following football seriously back in 1986. Though I watched several matches later, I don't think that I could give a fair evaluation. My impression however is that Maradona was the only reason that Argentina succeeded; also, they were lucky enough that Brazil was eliminated by France at QF; who was then too excited and couldn't focus and get their asses kicked by West Germany. Otherwise, it looked to me that Brazil would be the strongest side (as in WC'82) of that tournament; and with all the rich tradition between these two feuding nations, the history might have been re-written.

Maybe Reza has something to say. He is old enough to have watched this tournament; Grinundwech and, that was his country's only WC final stage appearance. GrinundwechGrinundwech
aka xudong
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#4
(04-23-2012, 01:05 AM)xudong Wrote: Maybe Reza has something to say. He is old enough to have watched this tournament; Grinundwech and, that was his country's only WC final stage appearance. GrinundwechGrinundwech
Reza if you commented now, I would assume that xudong is rite and you are old .... now its up t you Sagrin
Argentina will win the World Cup 2018

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#5
I am old enough Big Grin

My view on 86 would be that Maradona was at his peak and somewhat despite the formation and lineup they were destined for it. There are those famous pics that several players try to mark Maradona out of it and this was a classic case of others, Valdano etc., finding openings. England were still backwards with winger issues etc. I think England in 90 - with Robson much more experienced - started moving forward. I became a Belgium NT fan that year, Scifo, Ceulemans, Gerets, Clijsters (the father of the tennis player) and others ... a good team.

xudong, you are talking about Canada? yes 86 only and no hope ever again lol. Iran, my birthplace, on the other hand didn't make it to 86 WC (technically were disqualified). Only 78, 98 and 06 for Iran.

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#6
(04-23-2012, 07:37 PM)reza Wrote: I am old enough Big Grin

My view on 86 would be that Maradona was at his peak and somewhat despite the formation and lineup they were destined for it. There are those famous pics that several players try to mark Maradona out of it and this was a classic case of others, Valdano etc., finding openings. England were still backwards with winger issues etc. I think England in 90 - with Robson much more experienced - started moving forward. I became a Belgium NT fan that year, Scifo, Ceulemans, Gerets, Clijsters (the father of the tennis player) and others ... a good team.

xudong, you are talking about Canada? yes 86 only and no hope ever again lol. Iran, my birthplace, on the other hand didn't make it to 86 WC (technically were disqualified). Only 78, 98 and 06 for Iran.

I knew you were some where from Asia, though my guess was Afghanistan Sagrin
Anyway, I still remember people talking about the USA vs Iran match in the France98 WC. Man it had some attention in that time, as if it was Pak vs India cricket match ...

The only thing bad and (hugely) unfair about France98 was that Argentina didn't win it Dodgy
Argentina will win the World Cup 2018

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#7
(04-23-2012, 07:37 PM)reza Wrote: I am old enough Big Grin

My view on 86 would be that Maradona was at his peak and somewhat despite the formation and lineup they were destined for it. There are those famous pics that several players try to mark Maradona out of it and this was a classic case of others, Valdano etc., finding openings. England were still backwards with winger issues etc. I think England in 90 - with Robson much more experienced - started moving forward. I became a Belgium NT fan that year, Scifo, Ceulemans, Gerets, Clijsters (the father of the tennis player) and others ... a good team.

xudong, you are talking about Canada? yes 86 only and no hope ever again lol. Iran, my birthplace, on the other hand didn't make it to 86 WC (technically were disqualified). Only 78, 98 and 06 for Iran.

Yes, I was talking about Canada. I didn't know about your Iranian origin.

Please don't ban me. Confused Grinundwech
aka xudong
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#8
I am surprised neither you or zeekay knew that. I should post a poll:

"Who knows where Reza was born?"

Big Grin
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#9
Shame, even I knew Reza's Iranian origin Tongue

Quote:England were still backwards with winger issues etc. I think England in 90 - with Robson much more experienced - started moving forward. I became a Belgium NT fan that year, Scifo, Ceulemans, Gerets, Clijsters (the father of the tennis player) and others ... a good team.


Valid point there, my guess is Bobby hasnt figured the use of his wingers which would have been effective for him until that moment. i wonder if they have the stats from the time he was appointed to 86 WC Undecided
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#10
(04-24-2012, 12:17 AM)reza Wrote: I am surprised neither you or zeekay knew that. I should post a poll:

"Who knows where Reza was born?"

Big Grin

All I remember is that Dev (ACMILAN1983) has Indian origin (I hope that I got this one right Big Grin). I don't know where zeekay is from either (Somehow I wanted to say that he has something to do with Pakistan?) Big Grin

Now, is Reza a typical name for Iranians? I am very bad with names. I could tell if someone is Chinese, but that's all. Big Grin
aka xudong
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