Allegri's system
(10-01-2013, 09:46 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: It depends on how forceful they are these days. However, bear in mind that they've been in charge over 25 years now and I doubt they would have suddenly forced coaches the play as they want.

If we can't get top managers, it's going to be because they have no resources at Milan to compete with the club's expectations.

Agree to disagree.

Just look at how much Berlu opened his mouths over the last 10seasons in regards to tactics... And compare that with the first 15 yrs he was in charge. YES, the media is a lot different than they were back then but to me it seems like that Berlu wants the attention on him more than anything else.

Secondly, I don't think Milan struggles financially as much as Galli and others are making it to be. 1. Milan is the most consistent CL clubs in Italy over the past ten yrs. 2. THe last time Milan paid close to 30mil for a player was more than 10yrs ago with Nesta. 3. WAges was a problem but the sale of Kaka and Sheva along with making 3CL finals, and 1 Semi, should be enough to offset those numbers. Point I am trying to make is that Milan might not have made money like Real, Barca, ManU, Bayern and Arsenal but to think that Juve, Napoli and Roma can all outspent Milan over the last few yrs is laughable.

AS I said, no good coach will come to Milan, as long as Berlu and Galli are in charge.
(10-02-2013, 10:15 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: I don't think they'd struggle to get on, as apparently they got on well at Inter. However, I can't see them working well together either, as they both need the play built around them (especially Ibra).

I think they can play well together, only bc Mario is willing to compliment Ibra. I remember saying that long when Mario was first linked with Milan, while Ibra was still here. As Ibra is one of the few players who Mario seems to have respect for.
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(10-02-2013, 02:44 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Agree to disagree.

Just look at how much Berlu opened his mouths over the last 10seasons in regards to tactics... And compare that with the first 15 yrs he was in charge. YES, the media is a lot different than they were back then but to me it seems like that Berlu wants the attention on him more than anything else.

Secondly, I don't think Milan struggles financially as much as Galli and others are making it to be. 1. Milan is the most consistent CL clubs in Italy over the past ten yrs. 2. THe last time Milan paid close to 30mil for a player was more than 10yrs ago with Nesta. 3. WAges was a problem but the sale of Kaka and Sheva along with making 3CL finals, and 1 Semi, should be enough to offset those numbers. Point I am trying to make is that Milan might not have made money like Real, Barca, ManU, Bayern and Arsenal but to think that Juve, Napoli and Roma can all outspent Milan over the last few yrs is laughable.

AS I said, no good coach will come to Milan, as long as Berlu and Galli are in charge.
(10-02-2013, 10:15 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: I don't think they'd struggle to get on, as apparently they got on well at Inter. However, I can't see them working well together either, as they both need the play built around them (especially Ibra).

I think they can play well together, only bc Mario is willing to compliment Ibra. I remember saying that long when Mario was first linked with Milan, while Ibra was still here. As Ibra is one of the few players who Mario seems to have respect for.

I'm doubtful as to how much Berlusconi intervenes. He talks a lot in the press when he wants publicity, but I honestly don't think he imposes himself on the coach as much as the press would have you believe. I think if he was that bad, Zaccheroni would have been sacked much sooner (Berlu is completely against 3 man defences) and Ancelotti probably wouldn't have been accepted after regularly playing 1 forward with two behind during his time. He's an annoyance, but one that I think most coaches realise won't stop them doing their job, which is why we've had the caliber and longevity of coaches who we've had over the years. Of course, I might be wrong, but this is the impression I get.

I don't know about whether the club is financially sound or genuinely in the trouble we hear, but either way if a coach comes, the resources available to them are limited. If I was a top coach who could go to most top teams in the world, then I'd likely want to coach one where I'll get the best players around, which in it's current position, Milan isn't doing.

That said I add a caveat, as if I was a coach I would be intrigued by the project Milan have, as a lot of coaches love the idea of building with young players to have the side they want. Of course it seems as though we've gone back on the project this season, given we're buying all these overrated older players, but we have some really good youngsters, some also in youth sectors. So at the very least I'd want to learn more about what the club are doing.

About Balotelli and Ibra, I think Balotelli would suffer as a consequence of having to sacrifice his game to compliment Ibra and I think his time at Inter and City show this to an extent. At Milan and for Italy, his success is built on foundations that he is the key man up front, actually thriving on the additional responsibility and being given the service from teammates rather than losing focus to another player.
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You know believe it or not, when Conte went to Juve he had pure rubbish to work with. You can mention Pirlo, and buffon.. But Marchisio and all the others were very much average before Conte stepped in, that's how you can see the difference a coach can make (even with limited resources). The players know it too, they've all said stuff along those lines. Allegri doesnt seem like a good coach in that motivational respect , I never thought he was but I don't care if he gets sacked or not this season. I look forward to him leaving at the end of the season on an expired contract, respectful goodbye and move on.

Ultimately, I can't decide 100% if the problem is Allegri is a shit coach, or we aren't offering him the resources he needs. Maybe it's a mixture of both, but again the best case scenario is him just expiring, leaving and we move on. This season is a write off though, hardly any good coaches are ever available during the season. I'd wait for Prandelli or Donadoni, or decide whether Inzaghi is ready to take the step up.. Maybe other good managers will become available.
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(10-04-2013, 08:45 AM)WCmilan Wrote: I'd wait for Prandelli or Donadoni, or decide whether Inzaghi is ready to take the step up.. Maybe other good managers will become available.

Apparently Basten has been doing quite well this season. His team Heerenveen is in 3rd, tying in total points with the top two teams.
free loan with option to buy ™
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Wow thats pretty impressive for a team that got rid of their arguably best player (djuricic) and wetent a very strongnside to begin with. Kudos to Van Basten, if he continues like that Id love for him to be our new coach.
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Given Allegri could stay, and with Kaka' seemingly not coming back before November (looks like our meds won't urge Kaka' and Pazzini to come back too quickly, so they'll be out until November for the first one whereas he should have been available after the international games, December for the second one whereas he was expected to come back for the Barca game), the only valid solution is to play again with 4-3-3 ...

We actually have many solutions with that formation now :

ELS (Robinho) on the left, Balo (Matri and then Pazzini in the center).

On the right, it's either Niang for an attacking formation, or Birsa for a kind of hybrid 4-3-3/4-4-2 ...

De Jong is a sure starter in midfield.

Then, Monto and Poli could do well in that formation, with Muntari and Nocerino able to step in when we want a more defensive approach. When Kaka' will be back, he could, why not, be inserted there to replace Monto sometimes, he could also play on the right part of our attack (more attacking version of the 4-3-3 than with Birsa for example, but a bit less than with Niang).

In defence, a lot of work has to be done, and I'm unable to say what as even with a very good De Jong in front of them, we concede a lot of goals.
Abate and De Sciglio, when back, should start as right and left back.

Between them, it's maybe time to make a revolution and send Mexes (the 4 match ban is perfect as he will rest, train and he will have to fight for his place if the subs do well) and Zapata (not good enough this season) at home for some weeks.

I'm quite sure we could be surprised by a Bonera-Silvestre duo ... Both are average, both can be good sometimes and are able to make some silly mistakes too, but who knows, by associating them ?! That can't be worse than Mexes-Zapata. Or launch Vergara and pray.

Abbiati also has to be replaced once or twice just to make him understand that he's not a sure starter and that if he keeps doing mistakes, he will sit on the bench.

So that could give (see that attached file).
The first kind of formation is what we saw last season, with better players now.
The second kind of formation, the attacking move is a bit different, and would allow us to avoid the counter attacks we often see against us (there's often some free space for our opponents on our right side, where a guy like Birsa could stand and help us if the attacking players lose the ball).


Attached Files Image(s)
   
One should not speak ill of the dead.
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Scratch that 4-3-1-2.. and IDK why we ever got Kaka..fucking waste.. but here's 2 formations..in case we need to include him

[Image: 847752_AC_Milan.jpg]
OR
[Image: 847753_AC_Milan.jpg]
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i appreciate all your work! but how many times need I remind you that allegri does not have a system? :d

i read something funny from another forum (won't be able to give proper credit as i can't bother to go back to check):

for allegri, it is just basically:
- when we had ibra, long ball to ibra, ibra will find a way to score;
- when we have balotelli, long ball to balotelli, balo will find a way to get a penalty. Icon_lol2
aka xudong
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I really like the posts above, I haven't had much chance to comment on them as I've been busy, but both posts have potentially well balanced systems. That said there are a few points I will say, first to Geo:

The 4-3-3 with Niang looks quite similar to our 4-3-3 of last season, only El Shaarawy didn't move centrally much in the second part of the season. I like the defensive shape of that team and personally, at this point, it's probably the system the players feel most comfort in.

As for the second 4-3-3 (with Birsa), I would rather have a flat 4 in midfield in the defensive shape, rather than De Jong behind Montolivo (I assume you did this with the idea that De Jong acts a little like a sweeper in that he'll pick up the leftovers should the midfield be beat). My reason for this is across the pitch we have to cover less ground, meaning the fullbacks are better protected. It also means that we have less spaces between the midfield and defence (either side of De Jong in your structure) if the system is applied correctly.

For Elmago's systems:

Like with Geo's, the first system doesn't seem too different to last season. The familiarity could help. As for the second system, rumours are we'll go 4-2-3-1 in January, but personally I prefer your lineup by quite some way. Imo key to the system is Niang/Birsa and El Shaarawy/Robinho drop back to cover in front of the fullbacks.

On the rumours:

Apparently we'll see 4-2-3-1 in January with the lineup looking something like this...

-----------------Pazzini------------------
Balo-------------Kaka------------Honda
-----------De Jong---Monty------------
---------------DEFENCE-----------------
------------------GK----------------------

Personally, the idea looks stupid at this point to me and looks terribly unbalanced. None of the forward 4 are known for their defensive work, with only Honda really offering any defensive contribution. Pazzini's a decent player, but he's an impact bench player for me, not a starter. Balotelli imo is wasted on the left (or right if I'm wrong) and we'd see the same struggles we saw vs Ajax (I think), where he was out wide and wasn't able to contribute half as much as when he's leading the forward line. Defensively, we already struggle on the counter, I shudder to think how we'd fare if Honda and Balotelli are the ones expected to drop back either side of Montolivo and De Jong.

As for me, personally I just want us to go back to fundamentals (the basics if you will) defensively. This means 4-4-2, with tight lines together, which might seem outdated, but imo is also the future foundations for our defence. It's a bit simple in its explanation, but imo this video illustrates the basics of what we need to see (something I don't think we see at all atm):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTbUKo7fJsk
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Tassotti: "We're slowly returing to the 4-3-3 formation. It was a defensive version today because of the opponents."
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