Allegri's system
So with this 4-3-3, we look solid (despite missing some players) again ...
And the good thing is Kaka' showed that even in that formation, he could do well.

So I'd keep that now, use Kaka' on the left while ELS is out for injury, and once ELS will be back, let him fight for his spot on the left with Robinho. Put Kaka' on the right with Birsa being his sub. And you have Balo up front, with Matri now as his sub and Pazzini too then.

In midfield, Poli will slowly earn his first team spot too.

Maybe some good days to come if Allegri doesn't change anything again all of a sudden and if he doesn't use Matri at all costs ...
One should not speak ill of the dead.
So stop laughing at Juventus !
(10-14-2013, 07:28 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: I really like the posts above, I haven't had much chance to comment on them as I've been busy, but both posts have potentially well balanced systems. That said there are a few points I will say, first to Geo:

The 4-3-3 with Niang looks quite similar to our 4-3-3 of last season, only El Shaarawy didn't move centrally much in the second part of the season. I like the defensive shape of that team and personally, at this point, it's probably the system the players feel most comfort in.

As for the second 4-3-3 (with Birsa), I would rather have a flat 4 in midfield in the defensive shape, rather than De Jong behind Montolivo (I assume you did this with the idea that De Jong acts a little like a sweeper in that he'll pick up the leftovers should the midfield be beat). My reason for this is across the pitch we have to cover less ground, meaning the fullbacks are better protected. It also means that we have less spaces between the midfield and defence (either side of De Jong in your structure) if the system is applied correctly.

For Elmago's systems:

Like with Geo's, the first system doesn't seem too different to last season. The familiarity could help. As for the second system, rumours are we'll go 4-2-3-1 in January, but personally I prefer your lineup by quite some way. Imo key to the system is Niang/Birsa and El Shaarawy/Robinho drop back to cover in front of the fullbacks.

On the rumours:

Apparently we'll see 4-2-3-1 in January with the lineup looking something like this...

-----------De Jong---Monty------------

Personally, the idea looks stupid at this point to me and looks terribly unbalanced. None of the forward 4 are known for their defensive work, with only Honda really offering any defensive contribution. Pazzini's a decent player, but he's an impact bench player for me, not a starter. Balotelli imo is wasted on the left (or right if I'm wrong) and we'd see the same struggles we saw vs Ajax (I think), where he was out wide and wasn't able to contribute half as much as when he's leading the forward line. Defensively, we already struggle on the counter, I shudder to think how we'd fare if Honda and Balotelli are the ones expected to drop back either side of Montolivo and De Jong.

As for me, personally I just want us to go back to fundamentals (the basics if you will) defensively. This means 4-4-2, with tight lines together, which might seem outdated, but imo is also the future foundations for our defence. It's a bit simple in its explanation, but imo this video illustrates the basics of what we need to see (something I don't think we see at all atm):

Playing Balo on the wing is a huge mistake. At this point in time, I think a 4-3-3 is what is needed....or even a christmas tree. It can be more compact yet also allow freedom offensively for Kaka and Robinho, compared to last year's very wide 4-3-3 with El Shaaraway and Niang.


In January, IF, and it's a big IF that we get Honda, then that may throw a wrench in the plans. 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3? Too early to comment probably.

As for De Jong/Monty debate, Montolivo proves best as CM Anchor, while I'd like to see De Jong play next to him. Poli., Muntari, and De Jong can rotate for the 2 outside Midfield positions. Ultimately, trading Nocerino for Nainggolan (somehow, someway), would be the best, because Nocerino doesn't fit in the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.. and Nainggolan can in both.
I think the system we saw vs Barca should be kept for this season (albeit with tweaks), as we're finally getting a balance there which was lacking.

I'd be planning for the return of El Shaarawy and Di Sciglio and for the expected arrivals of Rami and Honda, but in the meantime I'd look at Robinho/Saponara/Niang, Constant, Zapata/Mexes and Poli in their place.

Essentially the shape of the system would be 4-3-3, like this:

--------Honda----De Jong----Montolivo----

What I really liked is De Jong and Montolivo acted kind of like a double pivot when against Barca, meaning that De Jong did his destroyer duties, while Montolivo could act as a regista.

With this, having Honda making runs from deep will allow him freedom to come into attack, a little like Seedorf in the past under Ancelotti. If Kaka during this movement comes central he will remain the playmaker (though like vs Barca he has freedom to move across when we attack), while ELS would naturally push up to join Balotelli in attack (something he did well before getting injured). Finally, the fullbacks would need to push up to take up the gaps when Kaka and ELS pull in, though I don't want as Brazil do and totally commit both at the same time.

Defensively, against Barca we'd have a 4-5-1 shape as both wing forwards pulled deep to defend. With this approach, I'd instead opt for 4-4-2 (something I've mentioned before), with Kaka joining Balo in attack to press opponents high and El Shaarawy dropping back on the left to join the midfield.

This is what I'd consider, but at this point I want us to continue just keeping a tight team and pressing opponents correctly.

Edit: Forgot to mention Elmago that I think our ideas match that the front 3 need freedom (I gave one example of a movement above, but that's not the only one).
Like your formation Dev, but I would switch Honda and Kaka.
Honda will work better as the RF, as he will press and tracks back. While Kaka is a better runner from deep than Honda.
I was unconvinced Kaka could run that much over the course of the season, hence decided to put Honda deeper. Also, I was impressed with Kaka's pressing vs Barca, so figure if he can transfer that further up field, then our defensive work can start higher up the pitch (without him having to burst a lung to drop deep).
Dev, I like your formation too. Also, I am sure that Honda and Kaka will overlap and exchange a lot if they play together. Both are intelligent players that know how to evaluate the situation on the pitch so I am sure that the initial positions aren't that important. If I have to pick, I am slightly more convinced by Dev's than by Gabriel's (Kaka & Honda).
aka xudong
I'm still curious as to whether Gabriel will get more starts this season once Abbiatis fit. I feel like Gabriel vs. Udinese and Amelia vs. Barcelona were two great performances worthy of letting them make more appearances.
I don't thnk the current Milan CBs are good enough for Milan to play higher up the pitch.
(10-25-2013, 07:16 PM)WCmilan Wrote: I'm still curious as to whether Gabriel will get more starts this season once Abbiatis fit. I feel like Gabriel vs. Udinese and Amelia vs. Barcelona were two great performances worthy of letting them make more appearances.

maybe both saw their chance out of Abbiati absence and put on a good performance. So, maybe for the sake of the team, Abbiati can continue to nurture his injury for a bit longer. Devilol
aka xudong
(10-25-2013, 08:18 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: I don't thnk the current Milan CBs are good enough for Milan to play higher up the pitch.

If we play as a unit, then I think we're capable. What we did vs Napoli, the first part of Verona and until the goal vs Barca, I think the team showed the ability to press high, even if they aren't always consistent, due to limited ability and mental weakness.

If we can learn to get a balance, manage our game and stay mentally disciplined then we can do good things. These players aren't of the level to maintain that all season, but even keeping it up most times would mean we'd be competitive in Italy.

I also think that if the club want to develop the culture (something we're clearly pushing now), then our football must reflect our mentality and ambitions, one which in the long term I still think (hope) is to be dominant in football, but must be cultivated from now.