Fourth most valuable club in Italy?

[Danny]

What a curious reply. You spend your entire post pointing out how wrong I am yet the evidence you actually use to show it proves me correct.

The only aspect the PDF suggests I've got wrong is City.

Why did you post a list which has Chelsea at 5, where I say they're around about, when your own proof shows they're anything but limited? Furthermore their research says the only thing holding Chelsea back from being in a stronger position is the size of Stamford Bridge, which I couldn't agree with more.

Your rebuttal is contradictory. Furthermore I think we all know that as a global BRAND Milan are the biggest in Italy, but that is not what I was posting in the first place - just our raw market value. And given Juventus not only spend more than we do but own their own stadium, they have greater assets than we do. So yes, they're worth more. But their brand doesn't have the same global appeal ours does.

But again, that's not what I was originally saying

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PS Clearly brand success isn't hugely related to how well the team is doing. In all European competition both Manchester sides were failures, yet one is top of that list the other 8th.

Brand success is down purely to marketing, to exploiting fertile markets - which Man Utd and Real Madrid have done brilliantly in the most populated part of earth - the Far East.

Even if Man Utd stink for the next 2 or 3 seasons they'll still be in the top 3 at worst. Because they make all these pre season trips to the Far East and keep on plundering that market.

EDIT: Hadn't seen the 2013 list. My point totally. Thanks to a horrific 2 seasons in Europe, Utd have fallen by one place to 2 in the most up-to-date list. Because they keep marketing themselves so well.

[WCmilan]

I was just pointing out that you had missed the most fundamental aspect of a clubs brand (broadcasting) when you were doubting Bayern as being the number 1 branded football club, and your disbelief towards man city being a good brand. The fact is, the marketing you just spoke of above takes place through mainly broadcasting. Man U doesn't necessarily have to have successful European campaigns, the lone fact that they have been the top team in England is enough. Why? Well it's simply because EPL being what most people call the most competitive league get all the big broadcasting deals maybe because it's what people like to watch, which in turn gives them an advantage over other clubs.

For example, say Juventus is better than ManU... MU plays in EPL, and EPL is a much more entertaining league to most people, hence MAN u is a lot more likely to be shown all over the place as a pose to Juventus. Advertising takes place through this wide range of broadcasting that ManU has at their disposal which most likely leads to more fans = more ticket sales = more shirt sales = more money to spend for players = healthy budget, which finally produces an almost always competitive squad, and with the more players they are able to buy and the stronger they get, the more and larger broadcasting deals they'll get.

Unrelated to our conversation at the moment, this is probably exactly why Italy has fell under. We lost Juventus to Seria B, and 3/4 of the rest of the league was garbage back then, hence we lost a lot of broadcasting deals. This in turn, lost a lot of money for our clubs which is probably the exact reason no teams in Italy can spend. It can be argued that Spain isn't as competitive as Seria A, but people will pay any day of the year to go watch Madrid or Barca or be able to see them on television which is enough to keep La Liga's broadcasting ordeals afloat.

What's really worrying to me is that France (Ligue 1) is getting extremely close to Italy in terms of financial resources and broadcasting deals. Seems like Germany have already passed us, while Spain and EPL are miles ahead. Something really needs to be done soon, and having two big clubs like us and Inter with out our own stadiums isn't helping either.

Sorry for the last two off topic paragraphs

[Rex]

First off I'd edit your hyperlink

You shouldn't have. I'd like to share so let everyone have it.

second, I dunno about that list. If you're talking 'brands', as in which football club 'name' or 'brand' is most valuable, as opposed to which 'business' is worth the most, then Real Madrid and Man Utd are the biggest brands in football. Have been for decades. That list isn't far off, having them as second and third but I highly doubt one sensational season has propelled Munich to number one.

Don't 'dunno' about the list as if you had ignored to take something of it. As I said before, you may expect to learn from it. Well I think WCmilan has the point right there which I may add that term of 'brands' haven't always identified as selling the shirt. Selling the shirt is part of marketing, and when it comes surefire marketing strategy, bringing in good effect for football club brands. Take Bayern who are successful on that matter, leader in sponsorship, plus stable financial and tend to increasing, and viewing fans as kings (affordable match-ups tickets or seasonal ticket) where Allianz Arena has always been full of spectators make them one of elite brands of global football.

Bloomberg page took the point says “impressive financials and a growing international reputation for quality football,” for Bayern took the top spot as the most valuable football brands of 2013. It's economy thing, while you can't put it that terms 'have been for decades' referring to Real Madrid and ManU instead.

Simply when you have great annual reports, make major profits with non-minus financial balance, supported by remarkable marketing strategy, you then own the world.

[Danny]

I was just pointing out that you had missed the most fundamental aspect of a clubs brand (broadcasting) when you were doubting Bayern as being the number 1 branded football club, and your disbelief towards man city being a good brand. The fact is, the marketing you just spoke of above takes place through mainly broadcasting. Man U doesn't necessarily have to have successful European campaigns, the lone fact that they have been the top team in England is enough. Why? Well it's simply because EPL being what most people call the most competitive league get all the big broadcasting deals maybe because it's what people like to watch, which in turn gives them an advantage over other clubs.

For example, say Juventus is better than ManU... MU plays in EPL, and EPL is a much more entertaining league to most people, hence MAN u is a lot more likely to be shown all over the place as a pose to Juventus. Advertising takes place through this wide range of broadcasting that ManU has at their disposal which most likely leads to more fans = more ticket sales = more shirt sales = more money to spend for players = healthy budget, which finally produces an almost always competitive squad, and with the more players they are able to buy and the stronger they get, the more and larger broadcasting deals they'll get.

I disagree that broadcast rights are the be all and end all - they're part of the overall package. Furthermore you forget one small portion of the broadcast profit scenario - in England, the more broadcast league on earth, Sky and now BT pay for the British rights to show it - that cash goes to the EPL and is shared BY THEM to the clubs. AKA Man Utd and all other clubs in England have sold their broadcast rights to the EPL and don't possess them themselves. The EPL (Premier League) then sell them wholesale around the world.

It's why Man Utd profited to 60M last season but City were only 2 less at 58M.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22610584

Half of all domestic broadcast revenue is split evenly among the league's clubs, with a quarter of the money paid according to a team's Premier League position at the end of the season and the final 25% depending on how often a team is televised.

I think you may have misunderstood how TV rights work my friend.

Unrelated to our conversation at the moment, this is probably exactly why Italy has fell under. We lost Juventus to Seria B, and 3/4 of the rest of the league was garbage back then, hence we lost a lot of broadcasting deals. This in turn, lost a lot of money for our clubs which is probably the exact reason no teams in Italy can spend. It can be argued that Spain isn't as competitive as Seria A, but people will pay any day of the year to go watch Madrid or Barca or be able to see them on television which is enough to keep La Liga's broadcasting ordeals afloat.

What's really worrying to me is that France (Ligue 1) is getting extremely close to Italy in terms of financial resources and broadcasting deals. Seems like Germany have already passed us, while Spain and EPL are miles ahead. Something really needs to be done soon, and having two big clubs like us and Inter with out our own stadiums isn't helping either.

Sorry for the last two off topic paragraphs

TV money is a big deal, but in England at least the cash is gained by the Premier League and not the clubs. It's then shared with the clubs. I don't know exactly how the systems in Germany and Italy work, and tbh you don't seem that sure yourself.

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First off I'd edit your hyperlink

You shouldn't have. I'd like to share so let everyone have it.

No, I mean if I was you I'd correct the error in it because it doesn't work!

Don't 'dunno' about the list as if you had ignored to take something of it.

I don't even know what you mean here. I didn't ignore the list, I disputed it. I said 'dunno' as in 'I'm unsure I agree with the credibility you ascribe to this list'.

As I said before, you may expect to learn from it. Well I think WCmilan has the point right there which I may add that term of 'brands' haven't always identified as selling the shirt. Selling the shirt is part of marketing, and when it comes surefire marketing strategy, bringing in good effect for football club brands. Take Bayern who are successful on that matter, leader in sponsorship, plus stable financial and tend to increasing, and viewing fans as kings (affordable match-ups tickets or seasonal ticket) where Allianz Arena has always been full of spectators make them one of elite brands of global football.

Bloomberg page took the point says “impressive financials and a growing international reputation for quality football,” for Bayern took the top spot as the most valuable football brands of 2013. It's economy thing, while you can't put it that terms 'have been for decades' referring to Real Madrid and ManU instead.

I detect English isn't your first language and I am sadly struggling to understand what you mean

Simply when you have great annual reports, make major profits with non-minus financial balance, supported by remarkable marketing strategy, you then own the world.

Well yes, but I'm bewildered as to why you both ignore the most marketable and profitable part of a club - its merchandising, or, to be exact, shirt sales.

Shirt sales are the single most recognisable way to judge a club's global appeal. And I'm really confused as to why you are both trying to complicate the matter when it really isn't that complex.

[Rex]

No, I mean if I was you I'd correct the error in it because it doesn't work!

Actually it's just fine when inserting hyperlink.

I don't even know what you mean here. I didn't ignore the list, I disputed it. I said 'dunno' as in 'I'm unsure I agree with the credibility you ascribe to this list'.

Suit yourself.

I detect English isn't your first language and I am sadly struggling to understand what you mean

Yeah. Spot on. Right you are! My English looks crap, even this whole thing just about the perspective!

Well yes, but I'm bewildered as to why you both ignore the most marketable and profitable part of a club - its merchandising, or, to be exact, shirt sales.

I won't tell you further what remarkable marketing strategy means.

Shirt sales are the single most recognisable way to judge a club's global appeal. And I'm really confused as to why you are both trying to complicate the matter when it really isn't that complex.

When something about 'value market', and/or 'football brands' have come up eventually, it's just about the view point where it all ended up. You referred to shirt sales, while I and/or WCmilan sticks to club's commercial appeal in general. Plus, bear in mind, club's achievement provides the effect that capable of being an image boost into global football which your thoughts on the contrary. How well a team is doing in competition, I'd say, it affects them to make profits. Here, as for Bayern takes the credit lately.

Neither do I confuse nor bewildered into this. It's unnecessary you to be.

[Danny]

Actually it's just fine when inserting hyperlink.

Ok, you actually corrected the error while apparently denying it here and the rest of your post strikes me as hostile.

It's best we leave this.

[honsano]

Didn't know whre to put this: http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/170521...rs?cc=5901

Bayern are ballers! They have a waitlist for their season tickets.

In the US for Football the teams kind of do an ingenious thing for home fans to make them go out and watch the game. What happens is if the game is NOT sold out they will do a local block of the game on the networks. So if Chicago is playing and they don't sell out there game then no one in Chicago can watch it but the rest of the US can. Does anyone know if Serie A has this implemented or if it is even possible?

[ACMILAN1983]

Not sure what to make of this. About the thing that goes on in the US, I'm pretty sure it's not the case in Italy and won't be the case, as tv deals (even if it's just the surrounding area) are going to be more valuable than getting people in the stadium and would likely incur a backlash of major proportions (note there are significant sporting cultural differences between the US and most parts of the world).

As for Bayern's actions, I think it's good that they are trying to create and atmosphere in the stadium, as this initiative isn't about money as the seat has been paid for. However, I'm pretty dubious on the aggressive method they've decided to take. Personally, I'd think it might be beneficial to take a friendlier approach.

For example, how about offering a service where if season ticket holders inform the club that they will not be attending the match in advance, then the club can sell that seat for the match to another customer. Of course, this would mean the season ticket holder would need enticing to do this, but if the club take an initiative to reach out to them, like partly reimbursing (maybe 50% of the ticket cost) them at the point a ticket is "resold", then surely it gives incentives to the season ticket holder to contact the club. It benefits both the fans, who can get back some money during the season if they aren't able to attend matches and the club, who would make a 50% more profit than they initially would have by reselling tickets.

[teachey]

Club in Italy.