Winter mercato January 2015
#21
I guess I'm the only member on the forum right now that believe that we will be in the mix for a CL spot this year. I don't see Napoli, Fiorentina, or Inter as better teams and I think we will be up there with those teams. Last year we lacked motivation, team work, and most players hugely underpoerformed. I think that's changed for the better this year, and hopefully players will perform up to their standards. Even as bad as we were last year and with all the problems we had, in January we were still only 10 points behind Napoli before the game against them (so if we had won it could've easily been 7 points). Obviously we lost and it all went to hell, but the point I'm making is that apart from Roma and Juve, the rest of the teams may or may NOT have something on us. We'll see.

About the world class thing.....what's the definition of a world class player nowdays??
I would rather have 11 players on the field fighting like they did against Lazio working so hard and trying to be world class......rather then have "the only world class player Mario" walk around on the field ACTING like he is world class, but in truth he is nothing more than average at the moment.
#22
I think we should certainly be better than last year. In the odd chance that somehow Torres finds the goals 3rd or 4th is not impossible. I still have the same question as long ago (way before Allegri and Seedorf). In the case of Inzaghi it remains to be seen but coaches come into teams with formation ideas that may be a mismatch for the players available. If the team has lots of depth and super skilled players it may work but anything less than that it is very difficult.
#23
(09-10-2014, 04:48 PM)nefremo Wrote: I guess I'm the only member on the forum right now that believe that we will be in the mix for a CL spot this year. I don't see Napoli, Fiorentina, or Inter as better teams and I think we will be up there with those teams. Last year we lacked motivation, team work, and most players hugely underpoerformed. I think that's changed for the better this year, and hopefully players will perform up to their standards. Even as bad as we were last year and with all the problems we had, in January we were still only 10 points behind Napoli before the game against them (so if we had won it could've easily been 7 points). Obviously we lost and it all went to hell, but the point I'm making is that apart from Roma and Juve, the rest of the teams may or may NOT have something on us. We'll see.

About the world class thing.....what's the definition of a world class player nowdays??
I would rather have 11 players on the field fighting like they did against Lazio working so hard and trying to be world class......rather then have "the only world class player Mario" walk around on the field ACTING like he is world class, but in truth he is nothing more than average at the moment.

I don't think you're the only member. I said before during the summer that I agreed with you that this side can challenge for 3rd spot and I still believe that. However, I also think that the teams you mentioned, Napoli, Fiorentina and Inter are ahead of Milan. Possibly not on an individual level (though that's very debatable imo), but in terms of having a cohesive unit and some consistency. Question is whether Pippo can get this group playing to that level, something which has shown promise in TIM cup and Lazio, but needs to continue for the season to have credence. Truth is, I think right now Milan are a top 5 team in Serie A if playing to expectations. A top 3 finish would be to the credit of Pippo.

The bigger problem imo is the debate on Galliani and his work. I think many, including myself, support the work and sacrifices being done and made by those in the coaching and playing staff. However, I don't think Galliani can or should be given any sort of pass on his work this summer as the lack of resources is of direct consequence of his ineptitude for a number of years. Marotta's (whose being mentioned here) made some bad decisions, but unlike Galliani he's made numerous positive decisions which far outweigh the bad. More importantly, the mistakes haven't been hemorrhaging club resources as per Galliani's poor decision making.

Personally, I see Galliani's work this past summer as a failure anyway. For competitiveness Milan might have gained for the coming year or two with the signings that have been made, but barring significant resources being given to rebuild, when the players start to age and inevitably decline the club will struggle to retain that level of competitiveness, forget building towards being stronger. In terms of approach towards building this squad, the club maintain the same path it has done for at least a decade, which is bringing in and trusting experienced (read: older) players, often in decline technically and in fiscal value, rather than working towards a longer term future. It's telling that when you look outside those bought from co-ownerships (Poli and Albertazzi), the only player bought under the age of 27 is Bonaventura.
#24
(09-10-2014, 07:02 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: I don't think you're the only member. I said before during the summer that I agreed with you that this side can challenge for 3rd spot and I still believe that. However, I also think that the teams you mentioned, Napoli, Fiorentina and Inter are ahead of Milan. Possibly not on an individual level (though that's very debatable imo), but in terms of having a cohesive unit and some consistency. Question is whether Pippo can get this group playing to that level, something which has shown promise in TIM cup and Lazio, but needs to continue for the season to have credence. Truth is, I think right now Milan are a top 5 team in Serie A if playing to expectations. A top 3 finish would be to the credit of Pippo.
The bigger problem imo is the debate on Galliani and his work. I think many, including myself, support the work and sacrifices being done and made by those in the coaching and playing staff. However, I don't think Galliani can or should be given any sort of pass on his work this summer as the lack of resources is of direct consequence of his ineptitude for a number of years. Marotta's (whose being mentioned here) made some bad decisions, but unlike Galliani he's made numerous positive decisions which far outweigh the bad. More importantly, the mistakes haven't been hemorrhaging club resources as per Galliani's poor decision making.

Personally, I see Galliani's work this past summer as a failure anyway. For competitiveness Milan might have gained for the coming year or two with the signings that have been made, but barring significant resources being given to rebuild, when the players start to age and inevitably decline the club will struggle to retain that level of competitiveness, forget building towards being stronger. In terms of approach towards building this squad, the club maintain the same path it has done for at least a decade, which is bringing in and trusting experienced (read: older) players, often in decline technically and in fiscal value, rather than working towards a longer term future. It's telling that when you look outside those bought from co-ownerships (Poli and Albertazzi), the only player bought under the age of 27 is Bonaventura.

On the first point, I agree completely.

On the second point, I agree completely. I don't give Galliani a pass and never have. I was one of the frontrunners for wanting this jackass out of here myself. I still do. But looking at this summer ALONE, seeing as he wasn't allowed to spend a dime, he actually did a decent job. I maintain that. Again, I'm not his supporter and I want Maldini or someone like that here more then anything. But this summer alone, he did a decent job. I know we disagree on this and only time will tell what will happen.

On the third one, I agree, but only if we maintain status-quo with the squad we already have. What I mean by that is, you can't judge the work that's done now and refer to it in the future 2 years from now. Of course that if this squad stays the same in 2 years we are going to have huge problems being copetitive. But I'm sure some of the players will leave (hopefully the older ones) and others will arive in those 2 years. For example, next summer players like Mexes, Essien, Zaccardo, Pazzini, Abbiati, Bonera will be out of contract. The following year is players like Muntari, Alex, Torres. So our team will look very different in 2 years. Maybe we will renew a couple of those players but I expect most of them to be gone. The important point here will be, HOW do we replace those players. If we keep selling our Cristantes and keep signing Essiens, then I will join you. But I will wait another year and see what happens before I do that. I don't know if we will be given significant resources like you said to rebuild.....probably not ourside resources (Berlu's money or Fininvest investments), but if we make it to the CL this year we should have some resources next summer to replace those outgoing aging players. The point, again, is how we use those resources if we have them.
#25
(09-10-2014, 04:48 PM)nefremo Wrote: I guess I'm the only member on the forum right now that believe that we will be in the mix for a CL spot this year.

Nah, I think more people agree with you but we certainly are a minority!

Ultimately, I think our CL push comes from ELS finding form and our CBs gelling. We are better at GK, better upfront and better at LB/RB (whether it be DCS with Abate or Amero with DCS). Our midfield is the same and should be good enough for Serie A.

As you said, we were close last year and this year I imagine we will be closer. Especially since we are just doing Serie A and not spending mental time/energy on CL. That also helps inzaghi prepare for matches. Remember guys, the is 2014 not 2004.
#26
I think a problem here is thinking that when, for example, Essien expires he will be replaced with someone not like him. Essien was signed recently, if Galliani made that mistake only recently he will make it again. I am sorry but in these cases I have to side with the "negative" side. Hope I made sense with my example.
#27
yep, Reza. i know exactly what you are talking about. Galliani will continue to sign more Agazzis and Essiens as long as they are free and useless. but of course, he will make it exciting in keep us guessing - when Essien expires, will we find another equally terrible replacement, or will we actually renew him even an even higher salary? Wink
#28
Honestly, I don't think this Milan is a side capable of fighting for the 3rd spot, simply bc the injuries history of Milan Lab. the other thing is that this Milan will be a counter attacking side and I doubt a lot of teams in Serie A actually play the attack game.
Thirdly, this side lacks an engine in midfield, someone who can dribble or pass the ball from Milan's own 1/3 to the opposing 1/3 in a matter of seconds.
#29
Talk is MGT are not happy with Armero as a LB , they may try to sign a new one .But as usual it will be cheap free or loan , it will have to be.You simply cannot build a succesful team in 2014 without spending.Obviously we cant compete with Juve Roma Napoli and honestly Fiorentina Inter too , the EPL teams even mid to bottom half are on another level .Bayern Dortmund Barca Atletico Valencia Real PSG Monaco are too.
But the unwillingness to go after guys like Benatia Strootman Eriksen Banega Moreno is a huge problem , if our budget is 10m or under each summer then it'll be a long long road to any sort of success.

As was mentioned when you only go after free or cheap players you're not going after them because the coach wants them or they fit the system , you're going after them because they are low cost options and only for that reason...im glad we got some or signings this summer , but if say Menez was 6m Lopez 4m Torres 7m Armero 4m I have no doubt that they wouldn't be here.
#30
(09-10-2014, 08:04 PM)nefremo Wrote: On the first point, I agree completely.

On the second point, I agree completely. I don't give Galliani a pass and never have. I was one of the frontrunners for wanting this jackass out of here myself. I still do. But looking at this summer ALONE, seeing as he wasn't allowed to spend a dime, he actually did a decent job. I maintain that. Again, I'm not his supporter and I want Maldini or someone like that here more then anything. But this summer alone, he did a decent job. I know we disagree on this and only time will tell what will happen.

On the third one, I agree, but only if we maintain status-quo with the squad we already have. What I mean by that is, you can't judge the work that's done now and refer to it in the future 2 years from now. Of course that if this squad stays the same in 2 years we are going to have huge problems being copetitive. But I'm sure some of the players will leave (hopefully the older ones) and others will arive in those 2 years. For example, next summer players like Mexes, Essien, Zaccardo, Pazzini, Abbiati, Bonera will be out of contract. The following year is players like Muntari, Alex, Torres. So our team will look very different in 2 years. Maybe we will renew a couple of those players but I expect most of them to be gone. The important point here will be, HOW do we replace those players. If we keep selling our Cristantes and keep signing Essiens, then I will join you. But I will wait another year and see what happens before I do that. I don't know if we will be given significant resources like you said to rebuild.....probably not ourside resources (Berlu's money or Fininvest investments), but if we make it to the CL this year we should have some resources next summer to replace those outgoing aging players. The point, again, is how we use those resources if we have them.

I think there's the difference between us on this matter. On Galliani, while you're prepared to judge him on this summer alone, I simply can't, as I think he's responsible for not having a dime to spend. I get that Berlusconi isn't investing, but even without his investment, the club should never have been in a situation where they cannot spend anything on the transfer market.

I agree that the squad will change, but again seeing how the club is in a year or two once the older players are leaving isn't good enough for me. I've been waiting for years now to see any sort of tangible sign that there's been some forward thinking in the club and until now I've been disappointed time and time again. We can talk about CL revenue, but prior to this season Milan has been in European competition for over 10 years in a row and won CL twice. The club were one of the highest benefactors of CL during this time and look where it's got them. CL money is needed, but at the same time when the management have had those resources they've always appeared to piss it away.