Summer mercato 2015
#11
(02-11-2015, 03:36 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Just wondering how much is the TV deal in Italy for Serie A? bc the one that the Prem signed for he next 3 yrs are huge and that's just in England.

Ive seen some scary figures.The winners of the EPL will get €210m.A few reports that each team will get €90m just from TV.
Imagine if Man Utd get back to the top winning EPL €210m as winners the €70m IIRC a year from Chevrolet.The near €1bn kit deal with adidas on top of their huge revenue , the increase in UCL money.Just using Utd as an example.It applys to all top sides in Spain England Italy Germany PSG ..With no stadium (YET) no UCL no international exposure sponsors Milan will fall behind too far and quickly also , the money in football is so guge now that 2/3 years away from the top table will kill Milan.
Im saying 2/3 years but realistically I dont see AC Milan getting close to 3rd for quite some time.
And even if we finished 3rd...we're looking at a playoff game that in all likelihood we could lose like Napoli.
#12
Yep, also, that EPL TV deal is only for England only, the total for each team will be more once they add the TV deal with Europe, Middle East, Asia...

Read some where years ago that, when ManU was the top of EPL, despite paying off the loan interest of 88mil Euro, they still managed a profit of 60mil Euro. While Milan needed to sell Kaka to balance it's book.
#13
Real Barca Bayern Utd make so much more than Milan even 3 years ago when we still got UCL each year its scary ,They made double then and Madrid are making triple what Milan make.Utd are not far behind that.

Whats more worrying than that isnt even Chelsea City PSG Liverpool Arsenal Dortmund have surpassed Milan , its that Tottenham Schalke Atletico will soon.
With the new EPL deals the likes of Newcastle Everton also will.With the new UCL money Roma Napoli will get more money.

While we're crap on the pitch the club is even worse at management level.
Parma.If Parma fold we lose 6 points of 29 as well sure most teams will drop points but we'll slip a few places down further.I see nothing positive happening.

Oh the stadium haha ...Yesterday the news that 3 other interested parties were looking to buy the area where Milan are talking of building the Stadio lies.While those companys have submited offers to buy or lease the land with projects laid out , Milan have done neither or even made contact.
#14
Italian soccer in general has always been at the way way way back end of any kind of innovation or development. When teams from other countries were exploring new ways to generate revenue, make the match exciting and market their games better, Galliani and the gang were too busy either kissing each other's ass repeatedly (we are magicians in the market!) or fighting one another for some stupid crap (the TV broadcast has a weird offside line?). The so called tactical focused approach Italian teams deploys is about as boring and non-exciting for the fans as can be. But they can never get away from it because free thinking and innovation are not allowed with all the old turds in power. Italian soccer is dead, and they only have themselves to blame for that.
#15
(02-12-2015, 11:14 PM)slifersd Wrote: Italian soccer in general has always been at the way way way back end of any kind of innovation or development. When teams from other countries were exploring new ways to generate revenue, make the match exciting and market their games better, Galliani and the gang were too busy either kissing each other's ass repeatedly (we are magicians in the market!) or fighting one another for some stupid crap (the TV broadcast has a weird offside line?). The so called tactical focused approach Italian teams deploys is about as boring and non-exciting for the fans as can be. But they can never get away from it because free thinking and innovation are not allowed with all the old turds in power. Italian soccer is dead, and they only have themselves to blame for that.

I agree with your whole point other than the tactical focus point. I think tactics in Italy today aren't where they were even 10 years ago. Thing is, I don't think Italian coaches are the best anymore when looking in general, nor do we see tactical innovations in Italy that we see from some of the top coaches in the game today. Ancelotti is the only exception in this case and tehre's little likelihood of seeing him returning to Italy anytime soon. I struggle to think of any tactical innovation to come from Italy in the past 8 years or so other than the adoption of 3 man defences.

Italy's so called tactical game is no longer a reality, even the stereotype that Italian teams always defend and games are dull low scoring games is totally wrong. Italian football needs a new way of marketing as you correctly point out when talking about the "old turds" in charge.

Frankly, there is a significant lack of quality and the game itself is suffering at all levels and again, it's the same decision making idiots in charge that lead this stagnation. Going back to when Italy was considered one, if not the strongest leagues in the world, not only did you have massive foreign stars in the game like Shevchenko, Ronaldo (the Brazilian) and Zidane, but there was massive depth in talent in national players. You just look through the names that Italy had in the World cup teams of 2002 and 2006 and you see world class talents in every position. Compare that to Italy today and it's a completely different picture now.

There is potential in Italy, I mean just look at some of the quality young players in Milan alone, whether it be the likes of SES and DES or you're talking about youth talents like Mastour, Di Molfetta, De Santis and Mastalli. However, I think these players are much more likely to have disappointing careers than they are to find success because few clubs of any significant standing are willing to show any faith for them to grow.

In this respect, English football and Italian football are similar. Both are struggling to give the resources and value needed to develop players domestically. Both rely on foreign talents and names to give credence to their football without having an infrastructure in place to support their own developed players. The difference is that English football has come into the 21st Century and markets itself incredibly well globally and therefore has wealth to buy in some of the biggest names in world football, whereas Italy is in a hole where at best they bring in second tier talents, players who have had issues elsewhere and potential world class players, like Pogba, who everyone seems to agree will leave sooner rather than later. Italy right now is a stepping stone and that's the fault of those you name.

If Italy wants to move forward, it needs to start working to rebuild it's football from the ground up. This means getting people in charge who understand modern football as a business and people who understand that in order to build a stable and quality product they need to invest resources in building the infrastructure to encourage the growth and development of young players and coaches. Italy used to be the best at this, today it's just pathetic.

The other part is Italy has to clean up it's game. Italy's famous for controversy and scandals, never mind violence etc. No other major footballing nation has such a stigma attached to them (not to say they are clean) and that means when they sell their product, they sell something that looks polished and positive. It amazes me to see how out of touch many businesses are with the world today in the way they operate. The modern consumer, and as fans we are consumers, wants and demands a high level of transparency and dialogue with the service or product providers. Often businesses will do this through the use of social media and consumer events. On the other hand, in football, whether you talk about Milan, the FIGC or even FIFA, the model is archaic and frankly embarrasing. Juve, as I mentioned in another thread recently, have taken some steps on improving this, while at Milan Barbara seems to be trying everything possible to drag Milan forward to follow this model, despite resistance from certain individuals at the club.


#16
De Jong to Juve @ end of season for free? I didn't mind letting NDJ go, but to juve of all teams...
#17
(02-13-2015, 11:28 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 11:14 PM)slifersd Wrote: Italian soccer in general has always been at the way way way back end of any kind of innovation or development. When teams from other countries were exploring new ways to generate revenue, make the match exciting and market their games better, Galliani and the gang were too busy either kissing each other's ass repeatedly (we are magicians in the market!) or fighting one another for some stupid crap (the TV broadcast has a weird offside line?). The so called tactical focused approach Italian teams deploys is about as boring and non-exciting for the fans as can be. But they can never get away from it because free thinking and innovation are not allowed with all the old turds in power. Italian soccer is dead, and they only have themselves to blame for that.

I agree with your whole point other than the tactical focus point. I think tactics in Italy today aren't where they were even 10 years ago. Thing is, I don't think Italian coaches are the best anymore when looking in general, nor do we see tactical innovations in Italy that we see from some of the top coaches in the game today. Ancelotti is the only exception in this case and tehre's little likelihood of seeing him returning to Italy anytime soon. I struggle to think of any tactical innovation to come from Italy in the past 8 years or so other than the adoption of 3 man defences.

Italy's so called tactical game is no longer a reality, even the stereotype that Italian teams always defend and games are dull low scoring games is totally wrong. Italian football needs a new way of marketing as you correctly point out when talking about the "old turds" in charge.

Frankly, there is a significant lack of quality and the game itself is suffering at all levels and again, it's the same decision making idiots in charge that lead this stagnation. Going back to when Italy was considered one, if not the strongest leagues in the world, not only did you have massive foreign stars in the game like Shevchenko, Ronaldo (the Brazilian) and Zidane, but there was massive depth in talent in national players. You just look through the names that Italy had in the World cup teams of 2002 and 2006 and you see world class talents in every position. Compare that to Italy today and it's a completely different picture now.

There is potential in Italy, I mean just look at some of the quality young players in Milan alone, whether it be the likes of SES and DES or you're talking about youth talents like Mastour, Di Molfetta, De Santis and Mastalli. However, I think these players are much more likely to have disappointing careers than they are to find success because few clubs of any significant standing are willing to show any faith for them to grow.

In this respect, English football and Italian football are similar. Both are struggling to give the resources and value needed to develop players domestically. Both rely on foreign talents and names to give credence to their football without having an infrastructure in place to support their own developed players. The difference is that English football has come into the 21st Century and markets itself incredibly well globally and therefore has wealth to buy in some of the biggest names in world football, whereas Italy is in a hole where at best they bring in second tier talents, players who have had issues elsewhere and potential world class players, like Pogba, who everyone seems to agree will leave sooner rather than later. Italy right now is a stepping stone and that's the fault of those you name.

If Italy wants to move forward, it needs to start working to rebuild it's football from the ground up. This means getting people in charge who understand modern football as a business and people who understand that in order to build a stable and quality product they need to invest resources in building the infrastructure to encourage the growth and development of young players and coaches. Italy used to be the best at this, today it's just pathetic.

The other part is Italy has to clean up it's game. Italy's famous for controversy and scandals, never mind violence etc. No other major footballing nation has such a stigma attached to them (not to say they are clean) and that means when they sell their product, they sell something that looks polished and positive. It amazes me to see how out of touch many businesses are with the world today in the way they operate. The modern consumer, and as fans we are consumers, wants and demands a high level of transparency and dialogue with the service or product providers. Often businesses will do this through the use of social media and consumer events. On the other hand, in football, whether you talk about Milan, the FIGC or even FIFA, the model is archaic and frankly embarrasing. Juve, as I mentioned in another thread recently, have taken some steps on improving this, while at Milan Barbara seems to be trying everything possible to drag Milan forward to follow this model, despite resistance from certain individuals at the club.

Well said.

Italian teams are tactically focused, but that doesn't really mean they are good at tactics, lol. Tactics is some kind of mythical thing for Italian teams. They think they can just put in a new tactic or formation and all of a sudden Bonera would play like Nesta. That's why Milan keeps demanding results from a shitty squad. They keep thinking the coach should be able to just change our formation and all of a sudden, we are world beaters again even with the likes of Muntari and Essien in the starting 11. It's ridiculous, but then again, it is Italian soccer, so that's not surprising at all.

Italian soccer needs more forward thinking than anything else. It's not about who is actually the CEO or owner or whatever, but an attitude. Companies do not always relay on one CEO to make all the decisions, it is a collective effort. If the CEO is a bit old fashioned, it is also up to his direct staff to try and steer the company into the right direction. But Italian teams run like mom and pop stores, where one person basically decides everything and everyone else just has to smile and nod and agree. For the life of me, i do not know why after so many years of rapid decline in every aspect, Italian soccer is still not seeking for any kind of change. I mean, if my company is in rapid decline for anything over 5 years, the CEO would have been let go with a snap of the finger.
#18
People being able to hang on to their jobs too long is not an Italian thing. The issue with football in Italy is not exclusive to Italy at all. Even after this many years of decline there isn't more than a handful of countries better situated. I am talking as a whole that includes everything, not just quality of the product on the pitch. The positive change in Roma's ownership for example is much more difficult in many many more places.

EDIT: Even in England, take away a handful of teams and see the ownership changes and situation at Cardiff City, Aston Villa, QPR .... hardly rosy. These are three teams who foreigners took over, there are also relative long time local ownership with lots of problems like Wigan.
#19
The Prem as a whole is miles ahead of any other leagues in terms of marketing and branding now and they started to do so about 20 yrs ago. What I am trying to say is that their success did not come over night or it was a program for a few yrs, rather it was a long time coming. Something I don't see the Serie A ever doing, and that's why the money from TV will continue to widen and Serie A will most likely lose another CL place in the near future, due to teams not being able to get players and players being bought out by teams outside of Serie A. Players like Pogba, Vidal, Hamsik, and even SES will be gone soon.
#20
The EPL do lots of things that ad to the game.One that Ive notiched is added crowd noise , I was at Liverpool West Ham last season & the game was dire 0-0 at Anfield.Yet when we saw it later on the noise was as if it was the most amazing atmosphere ever, now im not saying that do this in Italy but whenever I was an Italian game it seems dead (because it is TBH) even a Milan derby or when we Juve is dead.Sure the banners and stuff look cool but after initial 10 or so minutes when the smoke bombs die down so do the fans.

The Serie A video packages for the big games are crap as well.This all ads to the game The presentation is shit.Before a big game in the EPL weeks leading up to it the ads are amazing the music making the players look like Roman gladiators.It sucks people in.
The funny thing is the games are usually a let down.The quality of football in the EPL isnt great.That may sound stupid as the have the best players for the most part & do well in Europe But watching Chelsea beat a West Brom 5-0 is boring.Stoke QPR Sunderland type matches are brutal.The top teams when they meet most of the time are not great matches

Serie A is not dying its dead.There is no plans to change its just so far behind its sad.There is some great Matches some very good players and marketed properly it could be a lot better .