View Full Version : World Cup refereeing: BullShizer!!!
just finished the argetina win over mexico and I finally remembered to start this thread, what the hell was the linesman doing? ... hes horrible, 2 offsides that were never there, i know they can make mistakes but they rarely get it right these day... and its not just this game, not at all, this is a good game considered to the rest... opinions?
Again and again (and many people have alreayd talked bout this), time to introduce more advanced technology.
The story of the World Cup:
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060621/i/r1779392447.jpg
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060621/i/r2919690734.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060614/capt.wclei14706141434.wcup_world_cup_soccer_spain_ukraine_wclei147.jpg
This is what Germany 2006 will be remembered for. Not the eventual champions, not Ghana's story, but the number of cards and the absurd refereeing.
zlatanov
24-06-2006, 20:32
The refereeing will never be great let alone perfect until technology is introduced. There are certain situations when we people have to understand is impossible for the ref to make the correct decision, they just have to make A decision and it's often based on their instincts (especially with thight offside situatuons), they do not have the luxury of 1,2, and more slow motion replays that we fans have.
So, having that in mind, I think the refereeing this WC has been pretty good and thus far lacks the obvious bias the refs had for the two host nations in 2002 or the often comic decisions we had to watch back then.
are u joking?... what about the 3 hards simunic got in crotia vs aussie?
what about giving another player a yellow when it was torrado who commited the foul in mexico vs argentina?
what about the obvious penalty for tunisia against ukraine when voronin clearly handled the ball on a tunisian free kick?
refereeing in this world cup has reached the worst possible, ive never seen such crappy refereeing
zlatanov
24-06-2006, 21:03
look, mk if you think you will ever see a tournament without any big mistakes, you'd better quit watching football man.
The one incident I have to agree was really ridiculous was those 3 YC for Simunic and that happened to one of the best referees around. But as Blatter said how come no one out there of all 4 other refs - didn't see the incident myself so I can't say about the players' reaction - didn't interfere to remind Poll of the number of cards that player already had.
As for handling the ball or not, you yourself know that these situations are sometimes given sometimes not, it all depends on the interpretation of the ref of the whole situation. Some of the fans will call it the wrong call, others the right call.
i know that, and like i already said, referees are humans, they can make mistakes, but in this tournament, it has gone way out of hand, too many silly ones, ones that can decide a game and theres atleast 1 in everygame, this is the worst refereeing ive ever witnissed in my entire life, and it happens during the biggest tournement in the world, Great!
Kaka1899
25-06-2006, 06:42
Graeme Poll hasnt helped tho with the number of yellow cards yellow carding a croatian player 3 times before sending him off! adding 3 yellows and a red to the list/
The most Yellow cards ina world cup is 22 in France 98 were already on 20 yellow cards for this world cup!
Stezagud
25-06-2006, 07:41
22 is the most world cup yellows? that surely cant be right as that is roughly 1 yellow for every 3 matches played and some teams average about 3 yellows a game :eek:
I dont mind too much the players getting booked for diving and shirt pulling as long as it is consistent. In the long run if players know for sure they will be punished they will be less likely to commit the foul, which will make for better games for the players and the fans.
Graeme Poll hasnt helped tho with the number of yellow cards yellow carding a croatian player 3 times before sending him off! adding 3 yellows and a red to the list/
The most Yellow cards ina world cup is 22 in France 98 were already on 20 yellow cards for this world cup!
Those figures are impossible. The average yellow card per match this World Cup is 5. There have been more than 4 matches. There are much more than 20 YCs so far.
zlatanov
25-06-2006, 13:24
Agree, those figures hardly make any sence. But when comparing # of YC and such, let's not forget that FIFA has adjusted the rules a little bit and asked refs to be more "ruthless" when it comes to diving, ball kicking for time wasting, obstruction at free kicks, etc, etc. Not to speak of tacles from behind or shirt pulling. This would naturally raise the # of cards shown ... especially if some refs think that 3 YC = 1 RC :sagrin:
ukrainian_CA
25-06-2006, 15:51
Those figures are impossible. The average yellow card per match this World Cup is 5. There have been more than 4 matches. There are much more than 20 YCs so far.
I think ... there have been about 20 Red Cards issued so far, we just got one more on
COSTINHA a portugese who plays for Dynamo Moscow (2nd YC).
On a side note it is strange to see 2 players in Portugal NT who play / used to play in one Moscow club (Maniche).
Stezagud
25-06-2006, 16:08
Again though, its hard to disagree with Costinha's cards, why was he stopping the ball with his hand on the half way line :eek: like Lucic yesterday i think he only has himself to blame..
Stezagud
25-06-2006, 16:47
actually this is getting a little extreme, i think the ref in Portugal-Holland is getting paid by the card :D
Even if you are a Portugal fan you surely have to agree this is a farce, cards for minimum contacts on the ankles making for sending offs
zlatanov
25-06-2006, 17:20
I think the ref coped very, very well with simply an absurd performance by both teams. These teams didn't go our there to play but to outcheat and outsimulate one another. Every single card in there was a deserved one, actually Cistinha should have been sent off 5-6 min earlier than he was, and Figo should have been RCed as well as he headbutted Van Bommel behind the ref's back ... I am guessing Figo would be suspended on the basis of video evidence later this week. Also, a Dutch player was saved at least a YC when he threw a time-wasting Deco on the ground.
Let's not blame the ref if he didn't close his eyes but gave a YC/RC where it was due, it's the players that should adjust their character/behavior and values when they go out there to PLAY not kill, intentionally injure, cheat, etc, etc.
Very, very "interesting" game from the point of view of suspence and thrilling experience, apart from that, these two teams should be forced to pass a boot camp before they can play at another WC.
I'm not sure all the cards were deserved, some were for such petty things that it became farcical in the end. However, having said that, the ref set his stall out so to speak early on by producing a yellow for a tackle that didn't deserve one. He was, if nothing else, consistent throughout :D
I thought both teams were a bunch of cheating diving c***s to be honest and i hope England can batter the hell out of Portugal. People hate England for being boring, well here you have a team that can play great football but choose to concentrate on cheating their way to victory and deserve just as much hatred from others.
Right at the end there was a shot of Deco with Van Bronkhurst talking about the ref ... and when the camera panned out Bohlarouz (sp?) was with them also and he was just intensely staring at Deco like he was ready to lamp him :haha: I'd have loved to have seen that.
.. I am guessing Figo would be suspended on the basis of video evidence later this week.
No, in this case FIFA can't do anything, because Figo saw a yellow card for his headbutt against van Bommel. It's a factdecision (correct word?) from the referee during that game and Figo cant get suspended from FIFA.
It was a very awfull match.
Instead of the yellow card for Boularouz foul against C. Ronaldo the referee should had shown the red card.
But really I was thinking.....wow, if they continue like that, both teams will not have a good team against england anymore :D
I don't know if all were fully deserved either (second one for GVB for example) but lots of cheating going on for sure.
England can beat them but not with a slow developing 4-5-1 like today
of course a slow developing 4-5-1 can beat them Reza, we'll send the opposition to sleep and then quietly creep in and score a goal :D :tired: :sleepy: :yawn:
i loved the jui jitsu game tonite, the refs were again very poor, i dont need to remind you all of the moments but no one here mentioned the fact that nuno valente almost killed robben with that kick which should have been a penalty and a red card
ukrainian_CA
26-06-2006, 00:12
i loved the jui jitsu game tonite, the refs were again very poor, i dont need to remind you all of the moments but no one here mentioned the fact that nuno valente almost killed robben with that kick which should have been a penalty and a red card
True, Ivanov and his linesmen missed this completely. I thought it deserved a free kick and a YC at least. Twas a tough match to judge / officiate, so I think with few mishaps
Ivanovs crew was consistent and OK.
rahul.acm
26-06-2006, 05:16
You should have seen Ivanov's face! His face was more red than usual. In such a high intensity match with 4 RCs and 16 YCs, I think he did a fine job. Remmeber there were incidents where players deserved straight red but he didn't screw the game. All the fuss was started by Van Bommel who was teasing Figo about Barca. Linesman are making some bad calls though but the refreeing has been fine!
Well I not only look at this as an onus for the referees. I tend to believe that a heavy onus falls on all the players to act accordingly for the good of the game as well.
Kaka1899
26-06-2006, 06:36
Well i got my stats from the bbc website so it was a quote by John Motson so i dont know if it is true or not?
Ivanov is one of the worst referees I have ever seen during whole tournament. He clarely did not understand for which fouls are given yellows and for which reds. Canibal hit Ronnie [close to his bollocks], ref gives only a yellow. Then Valente attacks dutchman in his penalty box with high leg - even a yellow is not given. Deco gets second yellow for nothing at all. Figo gets no card for blowing in to the head to van Bommel. Finally - 20 cards of which 4 red [!].
Wooow, Portugal-Holland, what a game!! just the kind of match i love to see (not if my team is involved of course). No one could escape, even Van der Saar got hit, if they had fouled the referee, the scene would've been complete. Oh and some more punches where necessary. If this match would've been with 2 argentinian teams, the thing would ended in a complete fight between both teams players, coaches, police, people jumping from the stands to hit each other as well, and who knows what else. Lucky it was in Germany. I could never had imagined this kind of game between Portugal and Holland, but you never know, they lost control, now i feel lucky we played vs Mexico. After all the where clean, and played with honour, wow we really saved our asses.
Straight red to Materazzi and a phantom yellow to Rino, the refs are at it again. No comment on the penalty :) Forza Italia
King tiger
26-06-2006, 12:57
And Italians did it again.:lol:
And Italians did it again.:lol:
,in the last second :ilol:
zlatanov
26-06-2006, 13:22
well, the italians did an italian job yet again, this time on the Aussies - strong defence with a barrel of virgin olive oil and they are through to 1/4 finals.
Just don't know what it is with Lippi, first it was Zaccardo now Iaquinta, this man must have a soft spot for talantless tourists. why not just go with the one proven and most in form striker Italy has in the face of Inzaghi.
Pirlo had a pretty average game I think. Gattuso, Canna, and Buffon were a class above the rest, yet again.
Anyway, Italy are through but if they play like that it will be even harder for them vs Switz/Ukr.
Graeme C
26-06-2006, 14:05
italys main problem is that Toni and iaquinta have never played in the champ league or a euro / world cup before... Really think Inzaghi should be starting with Gilardino... Inzaghi is the only current Italian player who scores consistantly in the Champ league...
Hopefully Totti will have alot more confidence after his goal... Zambrotta was solid, he would be brill at Milan. All italy can do is improve, i just hope nesta is back for the next game...
rahul.acm
26-06-2006, 14:12
Materazzi's RC was total crap. Penalty was more crap. All in all the refree ws really crap today. One cannot find a better way to screw a game than this one.
i wonder if its going to be one single game this WC .. in which one we can see referes making no mistake !!
This game gave me a preview of what is going to be on friday...i think we are on our way back home....
Codesal phantom is around.......
rahul.acm
27-06-2006, 02:34
There is no doubt that if there is a 50-50 chance the benefit will go to germany. Argentina will have to do a herculean job to beat them.
Total BS from the refs.
Its not like....i am a corrupt ref... it's just like I don't know how to ref a game, I'm sipmply ignorant.
Just like the last World Cup. The World Cup refs are always ignorant. They don't know any better and it's dissapointing.
King tiger
27-06-2006, 09:17
WTF is with this guy!??
WTF is with this guy!??
I'm not sure, WTF is with him?
Seriously though, what do you find about him that requires a WTF?
But do you mean me? Seriously now, I just think that what the refs are doing is more because they are no good at refereeing not because they favore one team on purpose.
King tiger
27-06-2006, 16:59
No Tas you are Ok:D.There was this guy Devilnevercry or something, he constantly posted links to another board.I believe that mods did their job::D
Part of the problem the refs have is that FIFA is now using WC to introduce new guidelines... for instance, anything that a player does to prevent the continuation of the game is a yellow card...
that's how Deco got his second card, and Zambrotta got his against Australia, just by taking the ball in his hands, and running a few steps before throwing it back to the Australian player.
FIFA should make all changes in rules/criteria at least 1 year before the WC instead of 2 months before.
NestaIsKing
27-06-2006, 18:09
Part of the problem the refs have is that FIFA is now using WC to introduce new guidelines... for instance, anything that a player does to prevent the continuation of the game is a yellow card...
that's how Deco got his second card, and Zambrotta got his against Australia, just by taking the ball in his hands, and running a few steps before throwing it back to the Australian player.
FIFA should make all changes in rules/criteria at least 1 year before the WC instead of 2 months before.
yah I don't really like how the players are getting cautioned for picking up the ball after a foul, but as a player, they should know that and just not do it. Just don't pick up the ball, and no yellow card will come. As much as I hate the rule, I do think the responsibility is on the players to not get cautioned
What a huge mistake by Roberto Rosetti in Espana - France match. Puyol was given a foul for nothin. Basically he was pushed by Henry in the back... but the one who was awarded a foul was Henry... phuckin diver :yuck: :frustrat:
Can not believe that this diving act was not noticed by referees and his assistants while they are only 10 or 20 meters away from where the action took place. IT IS HORRIBLE!
I can not understand... why there are so many mistakes bu referees in World Cups, while they do they job in European Cups quite well?! :rollani:
I'm glad that Spain are out. After they beat Ukraine 4-0 the coach was boasting about how Spain was unbeatable and how they would win the World Cup...
Well, now Spain is heading home and Ukraine is still in it :D
Never mind Spain. They have "the tradition". :D
Spanish fans (and media) easily got complacent after Barcelona and Sevilla's feat, which is totally understandable, but they are still NOT THERE, IMHO. Barcelona's success probably depends on Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Deco, and Messi, Larsson, Giuly. Their Spanish players weren't as instrumental. They do have lots of talent, but they need to start winning when it counts. No intention to offend/upset Spanish fans, so please bear with me. :)
:2whis: :2whis:
OH MY GOD.... a ref admitted he made a mistake....
English referee Poll quits international soccer after World Cup mistake
June 29, 2006
BERLIN (AP) -- English referee Graham Poll, who showed a Croatian player three yellow cards before sending him off in a World Cup match, is quitting international officiating.
Poll told Britain's Sky Sports television Thursday that he considered retiring from all soccer after his blunder, which meant a Croatian player stayed on the field three minutes longer than he should have. The result of the match was not affected and Croatia was eliminated.
However, the 42-year-old referee said he decided to continue refereeing in the English Premier League.
Poll said he took complete responsibility for the error. He showed Josip Simunic a yellow card twice, but did not eject him. Simunic was shown a third yellow card and sent off after the game ended.
"Certainly what happened a week ago is something I deeply regret. Inexcusably, I made an error in law, and most mistakes, most discussion, most controversy, surrounds opinion, and they are things we can always debate.
"But what I did was an error in law, and for that there can be no dispute. It wasn't caused by a FIFA directive or because I referee differently than what I do in the Premier League," Poll said.
Poll said he did not realize he made a mistake until told after the match. Several sleepless nights and thoughts of retirement followed.
"The first two or three days you think about retirement, you think it's all gone wrong, and you start to doubt your ability, but that didn't last for too long," he said. "Because of 26 years of hard work and countless games that have gone extremely well -- you know it's probably been my best season ever -- I will be back refereeing in the Premier League next season.
"It's time for me to let go of the mistake -- nobody got hurt from the error, nobody died. ... What I did was a public mistake, but it didn't affect qualification, it didn't affect the outcome of the match."
Poll worked at the two previous World Cups and was also a part of the 2000 European Championship.
"None have gone right, none have worked for me, for various reasons," Poll said. "We say in life one thing goes wrong it's unlucky, if two things go wrong then maybe you're really unlucky, but if it's three then you have to look at yourself and say something isn't quite right."
NestaIsKing
30-06-2006, 09:03
wow thats certainly interesting haha
2 penalties for England team and no-one showed by refere :) ..
referes in this world cup are insane what is wrong with tem ?
What penalites? When Lennon went down the defender clearly got the ball. The hand ball was unintentional, and the rules state that the hand has to play the ball, not the other way around.
zlatanov
01-07-2006, 13:59
I think the ref (Elizondo from Argentina ?) was excellent in this game. Agree with Vadim that in both cases the right decisions was not to give the PK.
As for Rooney's RC, at first I thought the ref overreacted but the replay showed how Rooney not exactly by chance stepped onto Carvalho's manhood area ;) so to call it. After that instead of keeping quiet, he started pushing C. ronaldo around
what? ... the referee was clearly with the english, he always gave them fouls and he never gave it to the portuguese
i cant belive that you sad that referee was in English side coman mk !! :pr78:
I think the ref (Elizondo from Argentina ?) was excellent in this game. Agree with Vadim that in both cases the right decisions was not to give the PK.
As for Rooney's RC, at first I thought the ref overreacted but the replay showed how Rooney not exactly by chance stepped onto Carvalho's manhood area ;) so to call it. After that instead of keeping quiet, he started pushing C. ronaldo around
yes but refere should stoped the game when 2 portugeze players throw in Rooney's body and fouled him for sure .. and i don't think steping in manhood area as you called it was unwillingly
hitmannq8
01-07-2006, 14:12
England areeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT :D
NestaIsKing
01-07-2006, 14:50
I don't necessarily think that Rooney should have gotten sent off, to be honest, I don't know if he stepped on Carvalho on purpose or not, it didn't look like he did, but if he got sent off for pushing Ronaldo and telling him to F off, then shouldn't Ricardo have gotten atleast a yellow for pushing Crouch shortly after?
I don't know, I'm glad Portugal won anyways, so hopefully they will make it to the finals again :)
zlatanov
01-07-2006, 14:50
what? ... the referee was clearly with the english, he always gave them fouls and he never gave it to the portuguese
The portuguese are famous for pretending and cheating, so not everytime they fall on the ground and show signs of "pain" it means there was indeed a foul. I am sure the ref had done his homework before the game and didn't allow C Ronaldo and co make a fool of him.
England areeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT :D
:5nana: :5nana:
:p017: :p017:
:wave: Good riddance, hooligans!
England didn't deserve to lose that match. They out played and out fought Portugal and all their diving girls after they went down to 10 men. Portugal once again did nothing and scraped through, their players really know the meaning of 'fair play' :rollani:
Milan_Mad
01-07-2006, 17:47
If the ref was supposed to be in favour of England, i'd like to see a ref that was against us !
Rooney's red card was a disgrace. After being tackled by 2 players he was battling to keep hold of it ... no problem there, Carvalho wraps boths his legs round Rooney's foot so how is he supposed to get it out ? The ref called a foul ... ok, i can accept that. What i can't accept is Ronaldo's little outburst, he runs onto the scene gets in Rooney's face and Rooney barely touches him and he gets a red card. You watch the ref and he shows no signs of going for any card until Ronaldo buts in and gets tapped.
The keen eyed will also have seen his little wink and signal to the bench after he got Rooney sent off and also his little headbutt on Rooney and a few other little things to wind him up. They done a job on him tonight and if that was a red card then we'd be playing 5 a-side every match. That was a disgrace from the ref.
Once again Portugal threw themselves all over the place and quite rightly got nothing on most occasions. England were superb after going down to 10 men and Portugal were pathetic, they did nothing with their possesion and did nothing to merit a win in this match. It was Italy v Australia all over again and England should rightly be praised for a fantastic 60 mins where they out played and out fought Portugal.
I won't defend the first half as that was quite poor. But after Rooney went we were clearly the better team, of that there can be no argument.This must mean this is the end for C. Ronaldo now at Man Utd with Madrid interested. Still Rooney needs to learn his temperament.
to do what he did to a team mate is lower than a snake's scrotum
ukrainian_CA
01-07-2006, 18:53
... I'm glad Portugal won anyways, so hopefully they will make it to the finals again :)
Again since what time? Since the Euro cup?
What did you mean by "again"? I would say "finally" but not "again".
P.S. i think i get it, my jet-lagged brain couln't really detect your sarcasm.
NestaIsKing
01-07-2006, 18:58
Again since what time? Since the Euro cup?
What did you mean by "again"? I would say "finally" but not "again".
P.S. i think i get it, my jet-lagged brain couln't really detect your sarcasm.
lol sorry yah I meant the Euro Cup.
I mainly want them to be in the finals because then when Italy beats them, there is going to be one hell of a massive party downtown!! :D
ukrainian_CA
01-07-2006, 19:15
lol sorry yah I meant the Euro Cup.
I mainly want them to be in the finals because then when Italy beats them, there is going to be one hell of a massive party downtown!! :D
I am thinking more of Euro-2000 final. No more golden goals though here in the WC!
to do what he did to a team mate is lower than a snake's scrotum
what!!!.. you are clearly being biased there, ronaldo didnt even look at rooney's face after that incident (which is a smart move given the nightmares he would end up having afterwards), ronaldo as much as i dislike him just went towards the ref and protested like any other footballer would, and rooney just pushed him for no reason and told him to fcuk off (which is nothing surprising), besides rooney didnt get sent off for that, he clearly stepped on carvalho's balls frikking ***!!! that was definatly a red, biasism aside!
portugal were the better team also, england played with alot of heart, and they were down for a big part of the match and managed to cause problems, but portugal always dominated and deserve to go through, great displays by ricardo on pens once again (hes the best GK on pens ive ever seen) and by hargreaves and lennon for the english
oh one more thing... ENGLAND AND BRAZIL ARE OUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :1ole: :beer: :whie: :5schal: :5guitar: :cheers: :djn: :djn: :djn:
Elizondo is ******* :frustrat:
just went towards the ref and protested like any other footballer would, and rooney just pushed him for no reason and told him to fcuk off (which is nothing surprising), besides rooney didnt get sent off for that, he clearly stepped on carvalho's balls frikking ***!!! that was definatly a red, biasism aside!
But he didn't need to protest did he, the ref had already gave a free-kick and that was it. But Ronaldo wades in screaming like a girl and Rooney gives him the smallest of pushes and then gets red carded.
Watch the ref on a replay he wasn't even going near his cards until Rooney 'pushes' (and i use the term loosely) Ronaldo. As soon as he does he gets out the red card.
I take it you also saw Ronaldo's wink and signals to the Portugese bench after he did that ? I take it you also saw his headbutt and pinching on Rooney ? And you say he didn't play a part in his sending off ? That's ludicrous. If he has any sense he'll be out of Manchester before he gets kicked out.
portugal were the better team also, england played with alot of heart, and they were down for a big part of the match and managed to cause problems, but portugal always dominated and deserve to go through.
How is this match any different than Italy v Australia ? In that match Australia dominated and Italy were always on the back foot. It was exactly the same last night except England were by far the better team when they went down to 10 men and Portugal created NOTHING in front of goal. How can you say they deserve to go through on that display. They had more possession, but you'd expect that against 10 men, but they did nothing with it and didn't even look like scoring a goal.
Stezagud
02-07-2006, 12:31
But he didn't need to protest did he, the ref had already gave a free-kick and that was it. But Ronaldo wades in screaming like a girl and Rooney gives him the smallest of pushes and then gets red carded.
Watch the ref on a replay he wasn't even going near his cards until Rooney 'pushes' (and i use the term loosely) Ronaldo. As soon as he does he gets out the red card.
yeah, its clear as day that the ref (who was a yard from the incident) was not going to give a card for the 'stamp' which presumably means he considered an accidental foul. As soon as Rooney pushed Ronaldo the ref immediately points at Rooney and takes him away from the crowd of Portuguese and gives him the red :mad: If that push merits a red card nowadays then Lehmann may as well retire as he does far worse to any striker that dare stand near him on corners for Arsenal.
The irony is that Rooney was too honest in standing up and trying to keep possession. If he had fallen to the ground in mock agony on the first foul on him it would have probably been a yellow to Carvalho for fouling from behind, instead Rooney battled through 2 more challenges and another foul with the ref watching from a few yards away.
How is this match any different than Italy v Australia ? In that match Australia dominated and Italy were always on the back foot. It was exactly the same last night except England were by far the better team when they went down to 10 men and Portugal created NOTHING in front of goal. How can you say they deserve to go through on that display. They had more possession, but you'd expect that against 10 men, but they did nothing with it and didn't even look like scoring a goal.
True, Portugal played half an hour against 10 men without a single striker on the pitch before bringing on Postiga :eek: They were content to keep the ball but England made the better chances and with a bit of luck (yeah right ;) ) could have won it.
Its most annoying that it took a sending off to bring out the players. Going down to 10 motivated them and forced them to focus on their roles within the side, 2 things we paid Sven £5m a year to do :rolleyes: If we'd have had that level of focus and commitment from the start of the game then we'd have won comfortably...
Oh well, it was a fun ride while it lasted and i already cant wait for the next world cup, i cant believe im masochistic enough to actually look forward to the inevitable exit via penalties :D
But he didn't need to protest did he, the ref had already gave a free-kick and that was it. But Ronaldo wades in screaming like a girl and Rooney gives him the smallest of pushes and then gets red carded.
Watch the ref on a replay he wasn't even going near his cards until Rooney 'pushes' (and i use the term loosely) Ronaldo. As soon as he does he gets out the red card.
Yep, Jamie you are right.
As can clearly be seen the ref doesn't even go for his card until Ronaldo gets involved.
http://128.122.108.71/~cma295/rooney.gif
After that scene (yeah and I also saw that little wink to the bench) here we said: "geez, what an A$$ Ronaldo is. The way how he came running to the referee and start complaining was...bleh, even the ref raised up his arm for a freekick.
It was clear their plan to bring Rooney out from the beginning, just waited for the right time.
What we also said was: "uuh...someone should fly to manchester and better pack his stuff, he will have a tough time there (for the case he stays). :D
Stezagud
02-07-2006, 15:18
strangely a lot of Utd fans dont actually care about England that much, in the past a lot of Utd players have had a tough time whilst on England duty from the press (Beckham 98, Neville 2000) and usually Utd rally around the player.
In Ronaldo's case it might be different, not because he is Portuguese but because he has supposedly asked for a move, that will annoy them far more than his role in the Rooney red card.
zlatanov
02-07-2006, 15:18
I think you guys are overreacting a bit on this RC. From the replay above, and I have the game rec. on DVD and watched that episode a couple of times, it is clear to me that Rooney did completely intentionally kick back at Carvalho. Now, I don't know whether he knew where he was going to hit him or not but the intention in his action is more than obvious to me.
And if it was a Portuguese player who did that to say Joe Cole or Terry, wouldn't you do exactly what Ronaldo did and namely go to the ref and start protesting why he wasn't showing Rooney a card or something? I am the last one here who would defend C Ronaldo as I have a pretty low opinion of him, but let's be a bit more fair here and stop trying to exonerate Rooney for a foolish act, yet another one I might add.
What the ref sent him of for is completely irrelevent to me in this situation as most refs would have sent him off for that kick back at Carvalho in the first place and wouldn't have waited for Rooney to push Ronaldo or whatever.
And btw, I was for England to gothrough, especially after they showed so much grit and determination after they remained with 10 men but if I have to be fair, it would be Rooney I would blame for that and not the ref or C Ronaldo.
Stezagud
02-07-2006, 15:41
What the ref sent him of for is completely irrelevent to me in this situation as most refs would have sent him off for that kick back at Carvalho in the first place and wouldn't have waited for Rooney to push Ronaldo or whatever.
Most refs would have given at least 1 of the 2 fouls on Rooney, particularly refs standing 5 yards away watching it happen! Rooney was stupid to react but in the current climate of football he was even more stupid not to play the Portuguese at their own game and feign injury at the first tackle.
Dont get me wrong, i'd hate to see him do that and i am glad he fought for the ball as much as he did, but dont you agree that if rooney had fallen over and rolled about for 5 minutes at the first contact he'd have been given a foul and there wouldve been no incident to debate. Its a sad day for football when it comes to that.
zlatanov
02-07-2006, 15:51
Most refs would have given at least 1 of the 2 fouls on Rooney, particularly refs standing 5 yards away watching it happen! Rooney was stupid to react but in the current climate of football he was even more stupid not to play the Portuguese at their own game and feign injury at the first tackle.
Dont get me wrong, i'd hate to see him do that and i am glad he fought for the ball as much as he did, but dont you agree that if rooney had fallen over and rolled about for 5 minutes at the first contact he'd have been given a foul and there wouldve been no incident to debate. Its a sad day for football when it comes to that.
yes, I agree with you on this. And I have to say that I always admire players who fight like Rooney did in that situation instead of rolling over like a shot gazzelle and making a sorry-butt plea to the ref for a foul. The ref however was very close and since none of that happen, I think letting the play continue and treating that as a fair fight for the ball was a good call. many refs would have indeed called a foul on Carvalho but many others, especially British refs, would have called it a fair fight.
This being said, Rooney should know better than reacting like that not just because it has no place in fair play but also because one always risks leaving his team with 10 men out there.
my reply to jim's post is what zlatanv said, aside from being england fans, when someone steps on another persons balls its an immediate red IMO, rooney should have acted more maturely, and he didnt, ronaldo was smart but low, he protested (and he didnt actually touch rooney jim u made that up), and it worked for him, blame the ref, blame rooney but really its not ronaldo's fault, he just did what any other player would do (and i guarentee u english players would do it specifically) and it went his way...
anyway, whatever you say, i really dont care, england are out and im really happy about it, no dis or anything, despite my hate for them i have to admit they did play good, though so did the portuguese IMO, and im sorry for you guys and better luck next time (though im not being serious here :D)
England should be happy that they even went this far in the tournament. In contrast to France whom have stepped it up a couple of notches, the Lions really didnt get it all together when it really counted. There is no way anyone can justify that England should have gone further in the WC. Red card or not they DID have an equal chance when it reached PK's and they squandered that too. Plus this Rooney kid you guys have is a loose cannon. Blame him and not the ref or Ronaldo for his ejection. The english side did not do their job keeping him under a tight wrap especially when full well knowing the reputation this hot-pepper has. Now I have nothing against the English. They deservedly made an early exit. Half of the team I dont like and the other half I dont even know. Teddy Sheringham would have made a bigger impact for this team than Rooney and "Eat more potatos PLEASE!" Crouch. Back to the drawing board England and I'll look forward to you being favorites come 2010. I know its in Africa, but it should be winter for them at that time come June 2010.
This Aaron Lennon guy has really impressed me so far in this World Cup. Anytime he's on the field he gives England a spark.
Erickson needs to be blamed for England's performace IMO. When an entire team perfroms as poorly as England have done, it is the coach's responsibility. And his desicion making is questionable. Theo Walcott??? And what was up with replacing Lennon in the 119th minute to bring on Carragher, who missed a penalty. He should have used that sub on someone in the beginning of overtime to give Enlgand another spark.
Stezagud
03-07-2006, 13:35
Eriksson certainly has to carry a large chunk of responsibility, everyone said it was a massive gamble to take Walcott as one of only 4 strikers, with Rooney and Owen both unfit there was always the possibility we would need him and Eriksson had said that he wouldnt take him if he didnt think he was ready. When Owen got injured and Rooney was clearly exhausted and lacking match fitness against the Swedes he needed a striker but turned to Downing and pushed Cole further forward instead :rolleyes: That decision proved beyond doubt that even Eriksson believed he wasnt ready so why take him ???
Tactically we suffered like Brazil, and to an extent France and Italy have at times, fitting square pegs into round holes because they are big name players to the detriment of the team. Balance is the most important word in football, how can players work as a team when they dont know what their role within the team actually is!
Italy have struggled with this too but have a defence solid enough to keep them in the tournament while the attackers struggle, England were the same and the defence nearly got them through again but centre backs can only do so much.
This Aaron Lennon guy has really impressed me so far in this World Cup. Anytime he's on the field he gives England a spark.
I did mention him a while ago as one to watch for the future in a thread about young talents somewhere, he has that combination all defenders hate, lightning pace and effective skill. Most defenders know what he will do, but knowing it and stopping it are 2 very different things :)
Yeah, he reminds me of myself in 10 years :D
Elizondo is ******* :frustrat:
:v408: Horacio, thank you very much!! what a great ref. You did what we all wanted :sagrin:
and he didnt actually touch rooney jim u made that up
Made what up ? If you're thinking of the headbutt that i mentioned then that happened sometime earlier in the match, either at a break in play or just after half time when the players came back out. It's hard to judge precisely when.
It's hard to make that up when it was on tv. In essence it wasn't a headbutt as such more of him pushing Rooney with his head and winding him up.
I also think Carvahlo must have balls of iron as he didn't seem to need alot of treatment at all.
I don't see why England deserved to go out based on past matches either. How is that relevant to anything ? You do what you can to get through, you don't get extra points for playing pretty football in earlier games, just ask Argentina. Through good fortune we managed to get where we did as we played poorly. But how that has any basis on why we deserved to be beaten against Portugal is beyond me.
If that's the case then Portugal will deserve to go out tomorrow as they have played the worst football out of the remaning 4 and next to them France have played poorly in their group games. That's going on some of the logic based in here.
Wow, Jamie, I thought you were cheering for Italy, not England. I've seen the footage of Rooney stepping on Carvahlo; in fact the first time I came across comments on it I thought "oh this won't look like much" but instead it was Rooney with his head down, right over Carvahlo, and stomp. Sorry, but to my untrained eye--after all I've only been watching on this level for 8 years--it didn't look like an accident or like Rooney lost his balance or anything else. :rolleyes:
I suppose I should have more sympathy for the big teams that are out, but I'm a person who gets very easily fed up with hype and bragging. I am sick to death of Brazil and their bragging and then for them to come in with the attitude of "oh we haven't even been challenged yet, so far only France can do that"....well, talk about arrogant SOBs. Good enough for them. :5milan: As for any other drama that went on, I'll have to watch the tape of it since I unfortunately scheduled Matt to come over and do yardwork and missed most of the actual game till the PKs occurred.
England...I simply don't care for the English game or the attitude. I don't know at what point England came in thinking they were the favorites, but I for one am really tired of the "reports" on Sky News where 3 (boring old farts) analysts stand around giving dry post-game armchair coaching tips, and then start a segment on the Italy-Germany game with one asking the other 2 if they are still in shock like everyone else is. :gun: You lost. You waltzed in expecting Portugal to lay down and die just like the US expected Ghana to do and it bit you, OK? Just stop :crybaby: and figure out what's wrong and move on from there.
If I'm getting at anything it's that this WC has been full of surprises and I'm totally enjoying that. We've had a few unexpected outcomes, and THAT should be what is so great about a tournament like this--no one can predict the outcome.
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