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zlatanov
30-01-2007, 06:18
wait, what do we get for oli?? nothing? is it a straight swap for ronaldo? i thought we would buy ronnie & swap oli for assano.
the details aren't known yet, maybe it's just loaning RO for the rest of the season, as it was suggested a day or two ago ... the thing is that a loan swap Cassano-RO doesn't work for us, so instead of getting cassano on loan in return of RO, we seem to be going for a player that we can actually use in CL.

There is also the chance that Milan has decided to sell RO to Real, although I doubt it, but we'll have to wait and see what the details are.

Stitch
30-01-2007, 06:22
thanks zlat.

i don't know how old you are, but watching your avatar i always think of you as the father figure of this forum :D

Pietro
30-01-2007, 06:38
From Channel 4:

Palermo confirm Cavani capture Tuesday 30 January, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Palermo chief Maurizio Zamparini has confirmed the imminent arrival of Uruguayan striker Edison Cavani.

The highly rated 19-year-old of Danubio Montevideo has impressed in the U-20 South American Championship in Paraguay and was also a reported target for Juventus and Milan.

“Yes, Cavani is ours,” said Zamparini. “Palermo were the only club to make a firm offer for the youngster.”

The forward, who had stated recently that he would be happy to move to Italy, is valued at £3.5m and should sign a contract with Palermo on Tuesday.

“No other club made a concrete bid for Cavani, Palermo were the only ones to send a written proposal to Danubio. We will sign on Tuesday,” added agent Pierpaolo Triulzi.

Reports had suggested that Palermo might share the ownership of the player with Juventus, but that option has yet to be confirmed.

Cavani could replace David Di Michele at the club after he missed Monday’s training session and was spotted at the Quark Hotel in Milan, where the winter transfer market is housed.

Rumours suggest that Di Michele has been offered to Milan in a possible swap deal with Ricardo Oliveira.

“Anything is possible, but it doesn’t only depend on me,” said Di Michele. “In any case, if I am here it means there are some problems with Palermo…”

King tiger
30-01-2007, 06:52
Any news about the negotiations ?

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:06
thanks zlat.

i don't know how old you are, but watching your avatar i always think of you as the father figure of this forum :D
that's why I chose it - I like being called "daddy" :grinser: :ilol:
btw, I am 25

kris
30-01-2007, 07:09
First Nesta, now Oddo...Lazio grows good players and cant keep them. It is very bad for them actually.

Milan "grew" Oddo. ;)

Also talks about Di Michele is strange, because he is also cup-tied... I rate him though.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 07:10
Nooooooooo, even i don't want you to get Di Michele :)
He knows how to play football but he's ruining Palermo at the moment. He's selfish, arogant, always fighting with other players and refs. Simplicio-Corini-Bresciano..they all work hard to create something, they give this guy the ball, and then he's trying to do everything by himself. He's like Ibrahimovic from last year just that he's not even close to Ibra's quality.

Bojinov, like i said some time ago, the problem is he's not Fiorentina's only. Juve has him under contract until June with an option to buy him then.
So, you'll have to negotiate with both Juve and Fiorentina.
But if it seemed unlikely 45 days ago, now maybe there's a chance for you to get him. Deschamps doesn't likes him, he's not playing him and now he's 5th choice striker in Juve. Even Zalayeta gets playing time but Boji is playing 5 minutes on 3 matches mostly.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:19
Also talks about Di Michele is strange, because he is also cup-tied... I rate him though.
di michele is not cup-tied. UEFA regulations allow a team in the CL to register 1 player who has played in UEFA Cup for another team ... only 1 though.

I like Di Michele too but as Tony said he is a bit selfish - gets the ball, burries his head down and forgets that meanng of the word "teamwork". Plus he is 31 already, I think.
My personal favourite would be Di Natale - class player who can both create and score, can play as second forward and even attacking mifielder, 28-29 yo, eligible for CL. Only problem would be availability but if Udinese can get Di Michele or someone else, things could become easier.

mrki
30-01-2007, 07:28
ooorrr......PATO :) Young, not selfish, can play in CL :)

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:32
ooorrr......PATO :) Young, not selfish, can play in CL :)
buuuuuuuut ... without an EU passport ;)

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 07:34
My personal favourite would be Di Natale - class player who can both create and score, can play as second forward and even attacking mifielder, 28-29 yo, eligible for CL. Only problem would be availability but if Udinese can get Di Michele or someone else, things could become easier.
I doubt Udine will go after Di Michele again after the way he left them, and after he has shown how big troublemaker he is. Everytime some attacker was connected with a move to Palermo, Di Michele was moaning, threatening to leave the team, and he was, imo, deliberetely playing awful, ruining every single action Palermo created.
It will be a stupid move if Milan signs a 31 years old troublemaker like Di Michele. He won't accept being a 4th choice striker and he'll create even more problems.

Di Natale is very good, can't agree more with Zlatan, but he may be hard to get in 2 days only. Won't leave too much time to Udinese to substitute their best player this season.

But i must say i'm really suprised why did Milan accept Real's conditions and agreed to give them Oliveira, even if it's just a loan deal.

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 07:37
I will support Oli as long as he is a Milan player. We have had a lot of patience in his case and he hasn't done what he was expected to do. May be its something beyond his control too but why should we jeopardize our chances of winning something by having him in the final roster. If Cappello is asking for him in exchange for Ronaldo, I wouldn't mind. But I would prefer having Ronaldo + cash (2/3 MN Euros) for Oliviera.

The options Gazzetta is giving as Oli's substitutes are Bojinov and Caracciolo. I have no idea about Carraciolo. There is no doubt about Bojinov's future. He will become a great player but I am not so sure if he has the maturity and experience to play in the CL. If the sole reason for bringing Bojinov to Milan is to play in the CL, then I would rather go for Aubameyang. We would save money and its not really like we have to buy someone from outside to replace another player.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 07:39
buuuuuuuut ... without an EU passport ;)
I don't understand the regulations good, but if a non-EU player leaves the team, can't you substitute him with another non-EU ?

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:43
But i must say i'm really suprised why did Milan accept Real's conditions and agreed to give them Oliveira, even if it's just a loan deal.
actually, I think that with Ronaldo coming to Milan, it would be best for Oliveira to be loaned out, provided that Milan finds another forward eligible for CL.
My point is that with Gila, Pippo, and Ronnie around, Oliveira, who's been strugling to rediscover himself for one reason or another, would find even fewer oppotunities to play and find his touch.

If I have a problem with loaning him out to Real, it's because I doubt he would find many chances to play over there either - they still have RVN, Robinho, Raul, Higuain and even Reyes can play up front ... so quite frankly, I don't see Capelo giving Oliveira much space to rediscover his form.

Also, I hope it's just a loan deal 'cause I would want to see Milan be more patient with RO and give him another shot at showing what he really is capable of.

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 07:44
I don't understand the regulations good, but if a non-EU player leaves the team, can't you substitute him with another non-EU ?
no you cant... you can only buy 1 non eu player a seasen..

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:45
I don't understand the regulations good, but if a non-EU player leaves the team, can't you substitute him with another non-EU ?
that's what I thought too but i guess I was wrong - no matter how the number of non-EU players change in a serie A team, that team can bring only 1 non-EU player to Italy (Serie A) per season ... this doesn't count for non-EU players who are already playing for another team in Serie A.

King tiger
30-01-2007, 07:45
14.30 Milan e Real Madrid avrebbero trovato l'accordo sulla clausola di solidarietà. Le due società ne pagherebbero il 50 percento a testa. Intanto Ancelotti in conferenza stampa sulla possibilità di cessione di Oliveira al Madrid ha chiarito ''E' e resterà un giocatore del Milan''.

Form calciomercato . com can someone translate.

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 07:47
actually, I think that with Ronaldo coming to Milan, it would be best for Oliveira to be loaned out, provided that Milan finds another forward eligible for CL.
My point is that with Gila, Pippo, and Ronnie around, Oliveira, who's been strugling to discuver himself for one reason or another, would find even fewer oppotunities to play and find his touch.

If I have a problem with loaning him out to Real, it's because I doubt he would find many chances to play over there either - they still have RVN, Robinho, Raul, Higuain and even Reyes can play up front ... so quite frankly, I don't see Capelo giving Oliveira much space to rediscover his form.

Also, I hope it's just a loan deal 'cause I would want to see Milan be more patient with RO and give him another shot at showing what he really is capable of.

i also dont understand why real needs another attacker... Van nistelrooy, robinho, raul, reyes, higuain and they still have cassano... 6 attackers.. we only have 3 at the moment.

oliveira wont leave, we will just buy ronaldo. and thats good IMO, becouse we need him for the CL and i believe oliveira is a very good player, at least he was at betis. he's only here for 6 months so, he can improve.

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 07:48
Form calciomercato . com can someone translate.
oliveira stays :)

Kaka1899
30-01-2007, 07:49
14,30 Milan and Real Madrid would have found the agreement on the solidarity clause. The two societies of it would pay the 50 percento to head. While Ancelotti in press conference on the possibility of cession of Oliveira to the Madrid has cleared ' ' E' and will remain a player of the Milan'

Translation via Babelfish

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 07:50
no you cant... you can only buy 1 non eu player a seasen..
Aha, Thank you !

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 07:53
oliveira stays :)
Did Carlo mean Oli is staying at Milan or he ment Oli will remain Milan's player and only go on loan to Madrid ?

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:53
Form calciomercato . com can someone translate.
the text is kind of short i.e. ommitting extra info, so a literal translation wouldn't make much sense.
What it says, I believe is that Real and Milan have agree to meet in the middle - there was a dif of 1-1.5 mil euros between demand and offer - which means that Milan has upped their offer by ~.5 mil and Real has lowered their demands by the same amount ... at least that's how I understand this.
Also, Ancelotti has clarified at a press conference that Oliveira is and will be a Milan player.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 07:54
Did Carlo mean Oli is staying at Milan or he ment Oli will remain Milan's player and only go on loan to Madrid ?
I think he meant Oli remains at Milan.

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 07:58
true oliveira remains a milan player. it wouldve been a stupid deal for both teams, we need him for CL and real doesnt need him. now galliani, make the ronaldo transfer official!!

King tiger
30-01-2007, 08:04
Thanks for the translation guys.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 08:06
true oliveira remains a milan player. it wouldve been a stupid deal for both teams, we need him for CL and real doesnt need him. !!
That's why i was suprised to read how he'll leave Milan. It was totaly untypical for a big club to sell/loan the 3rd attacker to a team with 6 attackers, and then try to replace him in 48 hours.

So, Bojinov stays :p017:

Btw - Buffon said there's no chance he'll ever go to Inter :pr115: :pr115:

Stitch
30-01-2007, 08:09
good for him :D he'll come to milan :D

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 08:14
good for him :D he'll come to milan :D
Loool, we'll see about that.
On Oscar del Calcio ceremony yesterday, one lady asked him if he'll go to Inter this June and he answered : My future is not with Inter, at the time being my future is only Bianconero !

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 08:17
Loool, we'll see about that.
On Oscar del Calcio ceremony yesterday, one lady asked him if he'll go to Inter this June and he answered : My future is not with Inter, at the time being my future is only Bianconero !
... with "at the time being" being the keyword here :D
don't ya see it Tony, the guy is just being diplomatic :rone:

Stitch
30-01-2007, 08:17
well, "at the time being" is already passed :D he did not specify how long is the future :D

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 08:21
... with "at the time being" being the keyword here :D
don't ya see it Tony, the guy is just being diplomatic :rone:
The point is he's not going to Inter definetely, that's the most important thing now.
"At the time being" means that he still didn't decide if he'll stay in Juve or leave them, which is well known doubt.
But Inter, not Milan, were always mentioned as biggest favourites for capturing Buffon and now he said he won't go there !

One down, many more to go :(

King tiger
30-01-2007, 08:27
Any news bout Ronaldo ?

Arildonardo
30-01-2007, 08:31
New twist in the Ronaldo-deal...:

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jan30i.html

Stitch
30-01-2007, 08:32
Ron deal takes Oliveira twist Tuesday 30 January, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Real Madrid have reportedly asked Milan for Ricardo Oliveira to be included in the deal which will probably bring Ronaldo back to Italy.

Rossoneri Vice-President Adriano Galliani flew to Madrid on Monday for Ronaldo and talks between both clubs are continuing today.

It was thought that the delay in reaching an agreement was purely based on the size of the transfer fee, but it seems that Real have now asked for Oliveira.

The Madrid giants are looking for fresh options up front and do have a non-EU spot available for the Brazilian given the sale of defender Marcelo to Castilla.

WHAT??????????

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 08:33
very old news guys :)

the latest news is:
-oliveira stays
-milan and real reached an agreement over ronaldo, money only

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 08:35
The above "latest" from channel4 is jsut that...late...apparently, we have decided on a money only transfer...Oliveira stays, Ronaldo arrives, we pay 0.5M more...

Th-th-th-thats all folks!!!

(I hope) :D

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 08:35
channel4 is just reshuffling old news from this morning ... for the latest I would look at calciomercato, gazzetta, tgcom, or affaritaliani.it

As for Marcello, Castilla is like Real M B-team, so this isn't a question of a final sale but just a loan - Real wants to give Marcello more playing time and also they open up a non-EU spot for the senior team.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 08:40
before taking things for granted, I think we should wait for other sources to confirm what calciomercato reported ... others, like affaritaliani, are still talking about Milan looking for a substitute for Oliveira ... let's see what it turns out to be

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 08:43
now even calciomercato is quoting caracciolo's agent, Andrea D'Amico, confirming that there is a negotiation between Milan and Palermo for caracciolo, who would substitute RO if the latter is loaned to Real M.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 08:48
Ernesto Bronzetti seems to have confirmed that the deal is done and Ronie is officially a Milan player ... no details are clear as of right now, though.
it's on calciomercato.it and affaritaliani.it

King tiger
30-01-2007, 08:48
15.35 The proxy of Andrea Caracciolo, Andrea D’Friend, taken part by telephone to "Radio Radio the sport" has confirmed the negotiation between Milan and Palermo. "the negotiation exists - D has asserted’Friend - the Milan in order to unblock l’Ronaldo transaction will give to the Real Oliveira on loan and tries therefore the substitute of the Brazilian. In view-finder c’he is Andrea Caracciolo, but I must be still met with Braida, which it is catching up l’Quark Hotel. Creed however that if Caracciolo will want to be unblocked, it must leave Palermo "................................

Stitch
30-01-2007, 08:57
lol Kuki, jes ovo ti prevodio :D

King tiger
30-01-2007, 08:58
Babelfish :D

bolje bi ja :D

mrki
30-01-2007, 09:05
Caracciolo cant play for Milan....:( Even as a 4th striker. Pippo , Gila and Ronaldo are just enough for serie a. But what do we want to do, win CL with Caracciolo??

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 09:20
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Squadre/Milan/Primo_Piano/2007/01_Gennaio/30/ronaldo.shtml

Ronaldo to Milan seems official now with real and Milan having found an agreement on 7.5 mil euros.
It looks like Milan is still searching for a substitute for RO, who seems likely to join Real M on loan (?) but these deals seem to be independent from one another - I guess if Milan fails to find a subsitute for RO, he would stay at Milan and Ronaldo would still be a Milan player.

King tiger
30-01-2007, 09:21
We payed 7,5 milion for Ronaldo, so i dont think that Oliveira is part of the deal.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 09:24
We payed 7,5 milion for ROnaldo, so i dont think that Oliveira is prat of the deal.
that, however, doesn't mean he definitely stays with milan because the RO-to-Real deal seems to be a separate one ... no details yet on RO's situation.
Ronaldo however will soon be on his way to Milano as an agreemtn has been reached.

marcovb
30-01-2007, 09:30
Milan will loan or sell Oliveira to real?

I think this is stupid
real doesn't have to find a substitute for Ronaldo in this moment but Milan has to replace a player that has cost 20mil

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 09:33
I think it's a question of only loaning RO although I really wonder why Real needs him given that they have 4-5 trikers already, not counting Cassano :rollani:

ThrusT
30-01-2007, 09:37
I think it's a question of only loaning RO although I really wonder why Real needs him given that they have 4-5 trikers already, not counting Cassano :rollani:
They are not in need of a striker at all I'd say.
Maybe they've seen the connection R.Oliveira<=>manager<=>Ronaldinho? :27rr:

King tiger
30-01-2007, 09:38
I think we need oli, no matter how he performed so far, hes a good player and its difficult to find a decent 4th striker in just 2 days

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 09:39
Do we know, if anything, what Oliveira has to say about the pending loan deal...and Zlat, if they are separate, ie the loan of Oliveira and Ronaldo´s purchase...then why should we loan out a striker, to then sign one of presumably lesser quality?

I dont like the sound of that at all...and it seems like Real is either being greedy (which is just like them) since they have strikers aplenty, or just...I dunno..being greedy?

marcovb
30-01-2007, 09:43
I think real just don't want to reinforce Milan

Ronaldo / Gila / Inzaghi / Oliveira looks OK

mrki
30-01-2007, 09:53
Its official: Ronaldo is a Milan player!

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 09:55
and Zlat, if they are separate, ie the loan of Oliveira and Ronaldo´s purchase...then why should we loan out a striker, to then sign one of presumably lesser quality?

in order to give him more space and a chance to rediscover his form. Even without Ronaldo at Milan, RO was finding it dif to makes space for himself in the first 11. With ronie here, Oli would have been even more isolated.

the problem I have with loaning him out is why loan him out to Real M and not another team because at Real it wont be any easier for him with RVN, Raul, Robinho, Higuain, Reyes already there. And I don't see why they want him either - if they can't get the best out of the players they have, I don't see how and out-of-sorts RO would help them solve their probelms.

I still think though that the Ronaldo deal is not dependent on whether Oliveira goes to Real or not.

marcovb
30-01-2007, 09:56
Gazzetta said it's official

Ronaldo transfers to Milan

Oliveira goes on loan to real

Caracciolo probably will be the substitute for Oliveira

_MaJi_tz
30-01-2007, 09:58
Oki R9 Il Fenomeno is ours but what abaut Ricardo O.??Any news

hitmannq8
30-01-2007, 10:00
Milan trying to get Carraciolo?? OMGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vieri from Samp would have been a better choice than that piece of shiz!

marcovb
30-01-2007, 10:04
Palermo want Inzaghi for Caracciolo

From Samp maybe Quagliarella

Mufasa
30-01-2007, 10:04
Oliveira loan to Madrid.. Maybe Caracciolo..maybe Bojinov...i preffer the second.

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 10:04
Like Oli is going to do any good for himself by going to RM. RM the last place you would go to revive form or ..... even to play!!! I think Oli is part of the deal but we wont make it official until we find his replacement. Carraciolo's agent himself has admitted that he has started talks with Braida.

I think we have given up on Oli or he himself has requested for a transfer seeing his chances after the arrival of Ronaldo.

EDIT: I think he will be loaned till the end of this season and the possibilities will be discussed again.

King tiger
30-01-2007, 10:05
Palermo want Inzaghi for Caracciolo
Hahahahahha
are they stupid or what ?
P.S: acmilan.com is so slow, probaly coz icreased number of visitors.

Arildonardo
30-01-2007, 10:06
I think that Caracciolo can't play in the Champions League, so we better not sign him. Not sure though.

If he can't, we will only have Gilardino and Inzaghi in attack for the Champions League.

Probably the other players mentioned, Bojinov and Bonazzoli, would be better then. Or even Bianchi or Suazo? :5ok:

hitmannq8
30-01-2007, 10:06
Quagliarella IS THE BEST OPTION..OMG Transfer market is going MADDDDDD!!! I DNT WANT TO GO TO UNI i dun wanna miss this!

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 10:08
Quagliarella IS THE BEST OPTION..OMG Transfer market is going MADDDDDD!!! I DNT WANT TO GO TO UNI i dun wanna miss this!
then don't go to Uni ... just skip classes today and that's it :ilol:

Mufasa
30-01-2007, 10:08
If you aske me!! Suazo!! is the best option of all

hitmannq8
30-01-2007, 10:09
i cant bro, if i miss this lame, boring FLUID MECHANICS then i'll be lost for the rest of the semester

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 10:10
i cant bro, if i miss this lame, boring FLUID MECHANICS then i'll be lost for the rest of the semester
are you in engineering?

hitmannq8
30-01-2007, 10:10
Oui monsieur!!

mrki
30-01-2007, 10:12
I have tim untill 20hm then its Croatia-France handball so I have to watch it. So, please Galliani, work it all out untill 8!

King tiger
30-01-2007, 10:13
ROSSONERI SQUAD FOR ROMA-MILAN
1/30/2007

KEEPERS: Dida, Fiori, Storari; DEFENDERS: Bonera, Cafu, Costacurta, Grimi, Jankulovski, Maldini, Oddo, Simic; MIDFIELDERS: Ambrosini, Gattuso, Gourcuff, Kakà, Pirlo, Seedorf; STRIKERS: W. Aubameyang, Gilardino, Inzaghi.

No Oliveira.

marcovb
30-01-2007, 10:15
On Milan's site Ronaldo transfer it's official but nothing about Olveira

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 10:20
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/futbol/1a_division/real_madrid/es/desarrollo/733945.html

Oliveira llega como cedido
Pero el Real Madrid ha conseguido la cesión del brasileño Oliveira hasta final de temporada con opción de compra., según varios medios italianos. El club blanco tenía claro que necesitaba un delantero por la marcha de Ronaldo y porque Cassano no entra en los planes del cuerpo técnico, por lo que Oliveira era una opción posible que al final ha conseguido.

It says that there is "speculation" about Oli moving to RM on loan with an option to buy at the end of season.

I don't think Oli is injured and he is not in the line up to face Roma so guess his deal is done too but nothing will be official till we find a replacement.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 10:29
I have tim untill 20hm then its Croatia-France handball so I have to watch it. So, please Galliani, work it all out untill 8!
I'm so nervous because of this match. At the moment i could even accept Buffon to Milan if God guarantees to me we'll beat the French !!
:)

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 10:31
Palermo have signed Cavani (the Uruguayan guy who was recently in the news) and Rodoslaw Matusiak. So they will do their best to sell Carraciolo. Torino had requested him in a swap deal but Zamparini will only let him go for 5 MN pounds. I don't think Torino can afford that.

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 10:34
I'm so nervous because of this match. At the moment i could even accept Buffon to Milan if God guarantees to me we'll beat the French !!
:)

Its ok, I guarantee it...so get Buffon over to Milan by July, or your tongue will develop warts, and pimples will make your nose look like a yellow banana.

Stitch
30-01-2007, 10:35
I'm so nervous because of this match. At the moment i could even accept Buffon to Milan if God guarantees to me we'll beat the French !!
:)


it's a deal :D

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 10:39
Palermo have signed Cavani (the Uruguayan guy who was recently in the news) and Rodoslaw Matusiak. So they will do their best to sell Carraciolo. Torino had requested him in a swap deal but Zamparini will only let him go for 5 MN pounds. I don't think Torino can afford that.
Caracciolo can not improve anything in a team like Milan. He can't use his feet, and although he's very tall and jumps well, he's headers are not even close to those of Trez or Bierhoff.
He spent half season on the bench in Palermo, being Amauri's substitution and so far he scored only 1 goal this season.
5M pounds ( 7.5 M Euro) for Caracciolo is pushing it a lot !

The only positive thing about him is his age. He's 25 years old and can improve ( although i doubt it).
And he's born in Milano !

mrki
30-01-2007, 10:40
OK Tony, both are good for me. We beet France, and Buffon to Milan!

oskarius
30-01-2007, 10:49
I'm so nervous because of this match. At the moment i could even accept Buffon to Milan if God guarantees to me we'll beat the French !!
:)
Of course, we're going to win that match..The only undefeated team so far, this championship is destined to be ours.. ;) Wouldn't mind Gigi joining Milan, either..:D

Back on topic, Ronaldo is ours allright, but I don't like the way we were negotiating with Real..Af first we didn't even want to discuss with them, then we offered 6M and now 7,5M plus Oliveira probably on loan to RM..I mean, even 10 years old would conclude something isn't right here..Galliani proved once again he isn't the man for the job, with RM desperatly wanting to get rid off Ronnie, we should've made far better deal than this one..Hopefully. they weren't discussing Kaka issue.. :rollani:

Xudong
30-01-2007, 10:53
I don't like the idea of losing Oliveira and not getting Cassano or Robinho. 7.5M for Ronaldo from Real is a good bargain, if not a steal, but if Oliveira was involved, then it would be very different. :(

GilAttack [11]
30-01-2007, 11:10
7M euros + Oliveira Loan
for
Ronaldo

:wallbang:

marcovb
30-01-2007, 11:18
Of course, we're going to win that match..The only undefeated team so far, this championship is destined to be ours.. ;) Wouldn't mind Gigi joining Milan, either..:D

Back on topic, Ronaldo is ours allright, but I don't like the way we were negotiating with Real..Af first we didn't even want to discuss with them, then we offered 6M and now 7,5M plus Oliveira probably on loan to RM..I mean, even 10 years old would conclude something isn't right here..

Galliani proved once again he isn't the man for the job, with RM desperatly wanting to get rid off Ronnie, we should've made far better deal than this one..Hopefully. they weren't discussing Kaka issue.. :rollani:


And it appears that at the end of the season if Milan will end on 4th place Milan will pay another 5mil to real

We should have made this deal much much better

mrki
30-01-2007, 11:21
Seems like Galliani is doing things a bit too late always and that is why Milan needs to pay the price other clubs want. It was like that with Oli and Oddo, and now Ronaldo. All too late clinched and that means no right negotiations. I still think Ronaldo is better than Oli, but we need Oli for CL. Maybe Bojinov is still in?

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 11:22
And it appears that at the end of the season if Milan will end on 4th place Milan will pay another 5mil to real

Looooooooool
You're kidding me, or that's really the deal ?
Looks like Galliani and co. are so scared of the possibility Real to get Kaka ( they must have a very good reason to be so scared ) that now they'll accept everything Real says, hoping it will stop Real from going after Kaka !

King tiger
30-01-2007, 11:30
And it appears that at the end of the season if Milan will end on 4th place Milan will pay another 5mil to real

Is that true?

Is it now certain that Oliveira will join RM?

marcovb
30-01-2007, 11:34
I just saw Sport News on RAI DUE and thats what they said

peters
30-01-2007, 11:35
oh jeeez what a scary news. Cmon, that cant be!
pleasepleaseplease...

marcovb
30-01-2007, 11:35
It's 500 000

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Squadre/Milan/Primo_Piano/2007/01_Gennaio/30/ronaldo.shtml

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 11:36
I just saw Sport News on RAI DUE and thats what they said
Milan e Real hanno trovato l'accordo per 7,5 milioni di euro. Il club rossonero pagherà sette milioni al Real più 500 mila euro se si qualificherà per questa Champions League e per la prossima. Il brasilano è arrivato al Bernabeu e alle 18 prenderà un areo per Milano. Al momento non sono trapelate notizie sul futuro di Oliveira

You misunderstood. It's 500 000 !

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 11:37
So, the deal is 7 M now, and extra 500 000 only if Milan qualifies for this and next year's Champions league !

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 11:41
And the "At the moment news on the future of Oliveira is not trapelate"..is what the last line of that article translates as on babelfish...so, just what is "trapelate"? :d33:

Milan e Real hanno trovato l'accordo per 7,5 milioni di euro. Il club rossonero pagherà sette milioni al Real più 500 mila euro se si qualificherà per questa Champions League e per la prossima. Il brasilano è arrivato al Bernabeu e alle 18 prenderà un areo per Milano. Al momento non sono trapelate notizie sul futuro di Oliveira

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 11:45
And the "At the moment news on the future of Oliveira is not trapelate"..is what the last line of that article translates as on babelfish...so, just what is "trapelate"? :d33:
There are no news available for Oliveira's future - that's the translation !
According to spanish "Marca" Oliveira on loan to Real, with an option to buy him at the end of the season is done deal. But they didn't give me an impression of being reliable source. So we have to wait until it's official.

rossoneri
30-01-2007, 11:52
all i know is that ronnie is milanista and oli goes on loan at RM.

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 11:55
The fact that he isnt on the team sheet for tomorrows game with Roma...implies that he is either:

a) injured
b) about to go on loan
c) about to be sold.

My choice would be:

d) None of the above...

but it isnt my choice to make, now is it?

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 11:55
it hink that everybody is just coming out with their own guess about this deal right now. This thing about Milan paying money to Real if we get CL spot was something that Ernesto Bronzetti suggested as a possibel solution BEFORE Milan and Real had reahced an agreement (the one about 7.5 mil).

What Bronzetti said was that there were many possible solutions for this deal to materialize and in the end one or another will be found, whatever it turns out to be. Milan paying real money in case of qualifying for CL was only one such solution Bronzetti mentioned. Another one involved a UEFA regulation regarding transfers, which basically says that, for any transfer of a player, the selling club must give 0.5% of the transfer fee to each of the clubs that player has played for between the ages of 13 and 23, I think ...

in Ronaldos case this involves some Brazilian club, then Cruzeiro, PSV, Barca, and Inter. So, instead of Real paying these "fees", Bronzetti suggested that it would be possible that Milan would agree to take care of those just to facilitate the transfer ... but again, those were just some of the MANY possible solutions Bronzetti talked about BEFORE the actual agreement had been reached.

Yesterday, Real was asking for 8 or so mil, Milan was offering 7 or so mil with the dif between demand and offer being around 1 mil - this is what Galliani himself siad. Today, the official agreement reported by most sources is 7.5mil which is exactly what one would expect it to be.

There is a chance that, if Milan gets a CL spot for next year, Milan has agreed to pay those fees to Ronaldos previous clubs, instead of Real doing so, and this may very well be what RaiDue was reporting as a possibility of an "extra" payment in case of Milan qualifying for CL ... but to speak of another 4 mil given that Real's initial demand was 8 mil and we are paying them 7.5 is way off, I think.

Guys you are a bit too quick to just bash the management without giving much thought to whether the things that you hear around actually make any sense at all ... if you are so keen to go all crazy on Galliani and call him names, at least give it some time till the details are official.


EDIT: there you go - the confusion seems to be solved as I was typing this ... see, it's always a good idea to give it some time and know the details before we open a big bottle of WHINE :grinser:

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 12:00
There are no news available for Oliveira's future - that's the translation !
According to spanish "Marca" Oliveira on loan to Real, with an option to buy him at the end of the season is done deal. But they didn't give me an impression of being reliable source. So we have to wait until it's official. Thanks Tony..and no news is good news...so lets see what transpiers!

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 12:07
So, the deal is 7 M now, and extra 500 000 only if Milan qualifies for this and next year's Champions league !
not sure whether you got this from another source but on gazzetta it says that 7.5 mil would paid in two installaments and an extra 500,000 would be paid if Milan qialifies for CL, including going through the preliminary round ... "In that case I would be more than happy to pay 8 mil for him" is what Galliani says there.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 12:16
not sure whether you got this from another source but on gazzetta it says that 7.5 mil would paid in two installaments and an extra 500,000 would be paid if Milan qialifies for CL, including going through the preliminary round ... "In that case I would be more than happy to pay 8 mil for him" is what Galliani says there.
I got it from Calciomercato :

Milan e Real hanno trovato l'accordo per 7,5 milioni di euro. Il club rossonero pagherà sette (7) milioni al Real più 500 mila euro se si qualificherà per questa Champions League e per la prossima. Il brasilano è arrivato al Bernabeu e alle 18 prenderà un areo per Milano. Al momento non sono trapelate notizie sul futuro di Oliveira

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 12:22
I got it from Calciomercato :

Milan e Real hanno trovato l'accordo per 7,5 milioni di euro. Il club rossonero pagherà sette (7) milioni al Real più 500 mila euro se si qualificherà per questa Champions League e per la prossima. Il brasilano è arrivato al Bernabeu e alle 18 prenderà un areo per Milano. Al momento non sono trapelate notizie sul futuro di Oliveira
I see, well I guess the "rumour" people are yet to straighten the details for themselves :grinser:
Either way, it's a decent deal I think ... and I guess my suspicions were confirmed that RO is not part of the Ronaldo deal.

Reza
30-01-2007, 12:25
We must not overpay ofcourse but if this is Milan and this is Berlusconi monetary issues shouldn't be as relevant as having a full squad with at least four capable forwards. And if it turns out to be Caracciolo in, Oliveira out its bad business and does not improve the team.

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 12:27
We must not overpay ofcourse but if this is Milan and this is Berlusconi monetary issues shouldn't be as relevant as having a full squad with at least four capable forwards. And if it turns out to be Caracciolo in, Oliveira out its bad business and does not improve the team. Sad but true rezag...I surely hope that Oliveira stays... :w221:

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 12:31
We must not overpay ofcourse but if this is Milan and this is Berlusconi monetary issues shouldn't be as relevant as having a full squad with at least four capable forwards. And if it turns out to be Caracciolo in, Oliveira out its bad business and does not improve the team.
that's true, but it can also be seen as Oliveira out, Ronaldo in and Boriello out, caracciolo/someone else in.
With ronaldo in Milan, I think it would be best to loan out RO because he would find even fewer chances and to rediscover his form, he has to play. Thr problem here, IMO, is that Real, who already have 5 capable forwards, is hardly the place to send Oliveira to and expect him to regain his form ... it is this - not loaning him out, but loaning him out to Real - that makes me think that Milan may have given up on him, in general.
Anyways, I hope the last isn't true because I still believe that we can get much more out of RO.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 12:33
off topic - Cannavaro seem to be on his way to Chelski, so I guess Real will stir some water looking for a new CD.

Warro Bantan
30-01-2007, 12:40
off topic - Cannavaro seem to be on his way to Chelski, so I guess Real will stir some water looking for a new CD. Like on his way when? Tomorrow? Or when the window opens again in May/June?

oskarius
30-01-2007, 12:46
Guys you are a bit too quick to just bash the management without giving much thought to whether the things that you hear around actually make any sense at all ... if you are so keen to go all crazy on Galliani and call him names, at least give it some time till the details are official.
Agreed, news kept on coming too fast though you cannot but notice this deal could've gone more pleasant for us..8M is still a very good price for Ronaldo, but RO going the other way looks more like accepting their demands as he was certainly of much more need to us than he is going to be for them..

Anyway, what's done it's done, Ronaldo should improve our attack if he manages to stay away from injuries..I was against the transfer in the summer, but now things have changed and I can't but hope this will prove to be a good move, if anything, his goal in the derby would be just priceless.. :diablo:

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 12:49
Like on his way when? Tomorrow? Or when the window opens again in May/June?
The original rumour was about him leaving Madrid this summer for 3.5 M pounds. But some English newspapers say it may happen tomorrow allready !

Sweendogs
30-01-2007, 12:52
caraccollo i think has the potential to be an extremely good forward much better than olivera who is still having knee problerms I think and is best suited for la liga. On Milan he would third option at best. Our starting two should be gilardino and ronaldo, and then you have super sub pippo and caraccolo as your forth striker. Caraccolo right now is a much better striker than boriello.

Stitch
30-01-2007, 12:55
both channel 4 and goal.com report that oli goes to Rm... :(

eltomas2
30-01-2007, 13:00
both channel 4 and goal.com report that oli goes to Rm... :(
on loan or a permanent deal?

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 13:01
both channel 4 and goal.com report that oli goes to Rm... :(
those are older news from several hours ago ... there is still nothing official regarding Oliveira/Caracciolo

eltomas2
30-01-2007, 13:07
whats the difference between a loan with an option to buy and a normal loan?? will real get oliveira cheaper or something

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 13:08
This is what has happened till now:

ONE IN, ONE OUT AT MILAN?

AC Milan vice-president Adriano Galliani has confirmed he will remain in Madrid to discuss the possible loan deal of Milan striker Ricardo Oliveira to Real Madrid.

The former Betis forward is a target of the Spanish giants, despite failing to make much of an impact at the San Siro with two goals scored in 17 Serie A appearances.

"We have spoken about Oliveira," said Galliani. "But it didn't enter Ronaldo's deal.

"We will negotiate the option of loaning Oliveira to Madrid between tonight and tomorrow and we will see what happens.

"Should Oliveira join Madrid on loan then (Palermo striker) Andrea Caracciolo would be an alternative signing for us."

Meanwhile, Galliani is confident his club has got a good deal in signing Ronaldo from Madrid.

"We are extremely happy," said Galliani outside the Bernabeu Stadium.

"We believe we have signed a great player.

"At AC Milan, we have very important players and Ronaldo is a player of the highest level.

"Ronaldo seemed very happy, he could have chosen to remain at Madrid or move elsewhere, where he would have been better off economically, but he has chosen Milan, and we are delighted.

"This proves that he really wants to continue to play at the top level."

Ronaldo has penned a deal until June 2008 with the Rossoneri and will travel to Milan on Tuesday afternoon.
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/overseas/spain/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=international_feed/07/01/30/SOCCER_Ita-AC_Milan_Galliani.html&TEAMHD=spain

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 13:15
whats the difference between a loan with an option to buy and a normal loan?? will real get oliveira cheaper or something

If he goes on loan and does well and RM want to keep him and we don't, then there will be negotiations about his price then. If he is successful then I am sure we will be able to suck out the at least 20 MN Euros we have spent on him.

Loan with an option means that the team which has taken a player on loan and has the option of buying him at the end of loan term or even before.

A normal loan usually happens with youngsters who want get some experience but the club which has them on loan does not have an option to buy the player. An example would be Giuseppe Rossi who is owned by Man U and is on loan with Parma who do not have an option to buy him.

Stitch
30-01-2007, 13:15
On loan it says...but Daddy knows best, I guess :D

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 13:19
whats the difference between a loan with an option to buy and a normal loan?? will real get oliveira cheaper or something
not really sure ... IMO it all depends on the terms the two clubs agree on.
not sure, but I think a loan with a buy-out option gives the club that has borrowed the player the right to negotiate with the player's agent and reach an agreement on the players personal terms (salary etc.) without the permission of the club that owns the player ... still, the two clubs have to agree on a transfer fee UNLESS such a fee had already been set in the preliminary loan-deal.

While in the case of just loaning a player, should the new club decide that they are interested in buying that player on a permananen deal, they have to deal directly with the club owning the player and ask for permission to deal with the players agen regarding his personal terms.

All in all, unless Milan and Real agree NOW on a transfer fee for RO should Real M decide to buy him, at the end of the loand deal the two clubs will have to meet again and discuss a transfer fee and if they can't find an agreement, RO would have to go come back to Milan.

Stitch
30-01-2007, 13:22
based on my Football manager experience :D I'd say the price on a loaned player with an option is already set, and, at the end of the season, Real will have the option to pay it, or return the player. Otherwise, it makes no sense. The way Daddy :D describet it, Milan could just refuse to sell him, by placing a very high price tag...so the "option" wouldn't mean a thing.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 13:24
On loan it says...but Daddy knows best, I guess :D
you are the best kid ever :D :ilol:

eltomas2
30-01-2007, 13:24
If he goes on loan and does well and RM want to keep him and we don't, then there will be negotiations about his price then. If he is successful then I am sure we will be able to suck out the at least 20 MN Euros we have spent on him.

Loan with an option means that the team which has taken a player on loan and has the option of buying him at the end of loan term or even before.

A normal loan usually happens with youngsters who want get some experience but the club which has them on loan does not have an option to buy the player. An example would be Giuseppe Rossi who is owned by Man U and is on loan with Parma who do not have an option to buy him.

thanks,,,so that would leave us with Gila, Pippo and whoever else for the champions league,,,I guess that's all right as long as Milan get 4th place and no one gets injured...too bad about oliveira though but a team like Milan can't wait forever

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 13:26
based on my Football manager experience :D I'd say the price on a loaned player with an option is already set, and, at the end of the season, Real will have the option to pay it, or return the player. Otherwise, it makes no sense. The way Daddy :D describet it, Milan could just refuse to sell him, by placing a very high price tag...so the "option" wouldn't mean a thing.
you are probbaly right about that ... I guess it was about time those hours spend on playing FM paid off :diablo: :D

eltomas2
30-01-2007, 13:30
so basically Milan will end up losing money in the RO deal, or since now we got ronaldo we would be able to get rid of Oli's salary right away...we saved some money by buying R9 now but lost a lot by buying Oli in a hurry last year which really was caused by that damn scandal...weird transfer season for milan

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 13:36
no one can say anything at this point in time - its not even certain that we will let go of RO to begin with and if we do, its yet to be determined if it will be a loan deal or a permananet one.
Galliani is still in Madrid though for possible negotiations with Real for RO.

marcovb
30-01-2007, 14:43
'Kakà? Non si è parlato di lui e non se ne parlerà più. I rapporti con Calderon, Mijatovic e Baldini sono tornati buoni e infatti, in questo momento, sono ancora nella loro sede. Ricardo Oliveira? Potrebbe succedere qualcosa ma non credo che succederà. Non nego la trattativa, che prevederebbe prestito con diritto di riscatto per il Real, ma non penso decollerà. Ecco comunque perchè Ricardo Oliveira è rimasto a Milano'.


Galliani said that in the transfer negotiations about Ronaldo they didn't talk about Kaka
the loan of Oliveira it's not so sure that will happen after all (it could be a loan with an option for real )
Oliveira is still in Milano

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 14:45
latest rumours

oliveira to real
cassano to palermo
carraciolo to milan

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 14:49
@ Filipez:
where are you getting this info from?

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 15:00
@ Filipez:
where are you getting this info from?
Sky: Cassano al Palermo
L’emittente satellitare Sky ha dato qualche minuto fa una clamorosa notizia: Cassano passerebbe in prestito dal Real Madrid (via Milan) al Palermo e Caracciolo, sempre in prestito andrebbe al Milan. La notizia finora non ha trovato riscontro negli ambienti rosanero.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 15:14
Sky: Cassano al Palermo
L’emittente satellitare Sky ha dato qualche minuto fa una clamorosa notizia: Cassano passerebbe in prestito dal Real Madrid (via Milan) al Palermo e Caracciolo, sempre in prestito andrebbe al Milan. La notizia finora non ha trovato riscontro negli ambienti rosanero.
was that on TV or on their website?
All I could find about Cassano to Milan on sky was this:
http://www.skylife.it/html/skylife/sport/articolo/Calcio/30_01_07_pranzo_real_milan.html

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 15:18
was that on TV or on their website?
All I could find about Cassano to Milan on sky was this:
http://www.skylife.it/html/skylife/sport/articolo/Calcio/30_01_07_pranzo_real_milan.html
Errr, i have no idea where is it from. I found it here :
http://www.calciomercato.com/index.php?c=23&a=32338

Read the first comment under the article !

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 15:20
Its ok, I guarantee it Tony.
You're not real God, we lost !!!!! :(
You can now forget about Buffon !

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 15:24
@ Filipez:
where are you getting this info from?
sky indeed :)

dont know how reliable this news is... we'll just have to wait untill tommorow evening.

i also read that real signed pato...

so many rumours at the moment...

lked
30-01-2007, 15:26
Oo no , Pato :r7: :sigh: hope your wrong

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 15:29
sky indeed :)

dont know how reliable this news is... we'll just have to wait untill tommorow evening.

i also read that real signed pato...

so many rumours at the moment...
yeah, Tony showed me where it cam from ... it's not an officia entry on their site, just a comment made by one of the forum users but we'll see what happens.

Pato? where did you get that from? I don't think they can sign both pato and Oliveira since Real has only 1 non-Eu spot left and both Oli and Pato are non-Eu players ... although they could get him now and loan him out

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 15:36
galliani:
'As for Kakà, we didn't speak about him. I have a good relationship with Calderon, Mihatovic and Baldini. Something might happen with Ricardo Oliveria but I don't think so. I am not denying there has been negotiations, a loan deal with Real having the chance to buy but I don't think that will take off. So, that's why Ricardo Oliveira stayed in Milan.'

so maybe oliveira stays after all.
i read the pato rumour on another forum :) will post the link if i know more.
and i think the rules of signing non EU players are different in spain then in italy. in italy you can only sign 1 non eu player a year, and i think in spain it doesnt matter, but you can only have 3 non eu players in your squad there...

so it is possible.. no oliveira could mean pato for them, wich would be a shame

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 15:42
just a comment made by one of the forum users
Off topic :
Under that comment, another guy mentioned something interesting :
With the 20 M Euro for Oliveira ( counting Voggel ) + the 7.5 M Euro for Ronaldo, you could have made a 3 M Euro higher bid than Inter's for Zlatan Ibrahimovic and you'd have probably taken him in front of Moratti's nose.

I know the situation back then was very complicated, and Zlatan's form didn't guarantee a success, but when you have allready offered more than 20 M Euro for him, you could have given 2-3 M plus and get Ibrahimovic.
You gave 16 M + Vogel few days later for someone who was obviously no match to Zlatan.

It was a big mistake by Milan back then, and with the current purchases of attackers Galliani's indirectly proving how big mistake was made with Zlatan !

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 15:43
and i think the rules of signing non EU players are different in spain then in italy. in italy you can only sign 1 non eu player a year, and i think in spain it doesnt matter, but you can only have 3 non eu players in your squad there...

so it is possible.. no oliveira could mean pato for them, wich would be a shame
Spaniards have different rules regarding South Americans, and i'm 100% sure it's not the same with Italian rules.
I dunno how it goes exactly but i know they can sign many more southern Americans than Milan, Inter or Juve can ( even if they don't have an EU passport)

Filipéz 182
30-01-2007, 15:47
Spaniards have different rules regarding South Americans, and i'm 100% sure it's not the same with Italian rules.
I dunno how it goes exactly but i know they can sign many more southern Americans than Milan, Inter or Juve can ( even if they don't have an EU passport)
like i said :D

and i agree with you about ibra... i really hoped he signed for us back than. i was one of his biggest fans.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 15:50
Off topic :
Under that comment, another guy mentioned something interesting :
With the 20 M Euro for Oliveira ( counting Voggel ) + the 7.5 M Euro for Ronaldo, you could have made a 3 M Euro higher bid than Inter's for Zlatan Ibrahimovic and you'd have probably taken him in front of Moratti's nose.

I know the situation back then was very complicated, and Zlatan's form didn't guarantee a success, but when you have allready offered more than 20 M Euro for him, you could have given 2-3 M plus and get Ibrahimovic.
You gave 16 M + Vogel few days later for someone who was obviously no match to Zlatan.

It was a big mistake by Milan back then, and with the current purchases of attackers Galliani's indirectly proving how big mistake was made with Zlatan !
the dif is that when we bought RO we had already qualified for CL, while Zlatan went to Inter when our Cl qualificatio was still at stake. This, and maybe even some other factors we aren't aware of (by we I am including that forum member too ;)), is what influenced our approach for Zlatan and not some 3 mil euros.
if we really wanted him, once you are ready to give 20 mil, you would go the extra mile and pay 23-24 too ... plus, what makes you think that Inter wouldn't have put another 3-4 mils on the table only to top our offer and thus enter in a bidding war with them without a clear idea of what milan's future would be.
All in all, it's very easy to go back in the past and crytisize knowing that Zlatan is doing well at Inter now but I really wanna know what that forum member would be saying if Milan ended up paying 25-30 mil for Zlatan and he totally failed at Milan ... ;)

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 15:58
Spaniards have different rules regarding South Americans, and i'm 100% sure it's not the same with Italian rules.
I dunno how it goes exactly but i know they can sign many more southern Americans than Milan, Inter or Juve can ( even if they don't have an EU passport)
In Spain, they don't have any restrictions on how many non-Eu players a team can bring to La Liga within one season - that rule is strictly for Italy and Serie A - however, teams in Spain cannot have more than 5 non-EU players on their team (and it doesn't matter whether they have played for another Spanish team or not, they are still non-Eu) and cannot play/field more than 3 such non-EU at the same time.
So, it really depends how you look at it - rules in Italy are more restrictive as far as bringing in non-Eu players to Serie A goes, otherwise, it's exactly the opposite regarding the total number of non-Eu players a team can own and field.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 16:03
the dif is that when we bought RO we had already qualified for CL, while Zlatan went to Inter when our Cl qualificatio was still at stake. This, and maybe even some other factors we aren't aware of (by we I am including that forum member too ;)), is what influenced our approach for Zlatan and not some 3 mil euros.
if we really wanted him, once you are ready to give 20 mil, you would go the extra mile and pay 23-24 too ... plus, what makes you think that Inter wouldn't have put another 3-4 mils on the table only to top our offer and thus enter in a bidding war with them without a clear idea of what milan's future would be.
Risk has to be taken.
CL wasn't secured but was a huge possibility ( i'd say some 80%).
Inter could have offered more for the second time, or they wouldn't have offered more and decided to back up. You won't know if you don't try.
Galliani decided to quit and he lost a lot for not taking the risk.

It's like now with Juve. We bought 3 players now, but what if we don't qualify for serie A ? It's still a risk.

And i'd mention Zambrotta again, although me and you allready discussed this in the past and we have different opinion on this matter.
Milan offered money for Zambro but didn't want to accept Juve's condition ( buying him in package with Thuram). Barcelona accepted it and they got them both.
Even when you were trying to buy Zambrotta you didn't have CL secured, but you still offered money for him. The problem was you sticked to your original offer, didn't wanna risk, and lost him also at the end.

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 16:20
if Milan ended up paying 25-30 mil for Zlatan and he totally failed at Milan ... ;)
Zlatanov, it's called taking a risk ! The fact that Milan offered +20 M for Ibra is a proof itself you expected him to be a top quality. He was having a disastreous season and you still offered +20 M for him.

If you've calculated that 21 M is fair price ( i think that was Milan's offer) than you're aware he's good. Otherwise you'd have offered much less.
And sometimes you have to be prepared to give more than what you think is fair ( and don't forget - his market price got lot lower due Juve's relegation. It means that the fair price for Ibra was much higher than 21 M).
Milan didn't do anything. You made an offer, Inter made a higher offer, and that was it !

I'm aware it was a delicate situation for Milan in August, but an atempt to outbid Inter's offer wouldn't have hurt !

hitmannq8
30-01-2007, 16:43
If Oliveira goes on loan to Real Madrid, doesnt that mean we'll free up a Non-EU spot? (and can possibly get Tevez/Pato?). Carraciolo is in the same class as Corradi and Del Vecchio. He is Premiership material, this guy absolutely sucks. I pray that we dont sign him.

How legit is the info of Pato signing Real and Real selling Cannavaro?

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 17:33
Zlatanov, it's called taking a risk ! The fact that Milan offered +20 M for Ibra is a proof itself you expected him to be a top quality. He was having a disastreous season and you still offered +20 M for him.

If you've calculated that 21 M is fair price ( i think that was Milan's offer) than you're aware he's good. Otherwise you'd have offered much less.
And sometimes you have to be prepared to give more than what you think is fair ( and don't forget - his market price got lot lower due Juve's relegation. It means that the fair price for Ibra was much higher than 21 M).
Milan didn't do anything. You made an offer, Inter made a higher offer, and that was it !

I'm aware it was a delicate situation for Milan in August, but an atempt to outbid Inter's offer wouldn't have hurt !
and wasn't going for Oliveira called "taking a risk" too? See, the whole point is that after that awful second season Ibra had, if he had failed at Milan, that same guy would have come up with soemthing like "why give 30 mil for Ibra, when Oliveira/Kuit/Huntelaar etc. was available for half that" ... the problem with this way of reasoning is that it's based on a "let me go back in retrospect and judge past decisions with the facts that I NOW know" approach ... that's hardly something I could call an "argument" to be honest.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that everything has it's risks but the thing is that Milan did take one with Oliveira and it didn't work out as they planned - at least for now - in a similar way, they could have taken a risk with Ibra, who lets not forget didn't exactly set Serie A on fire in his 2nd season with Juve, and still gotten the same result.

See Ibra is great now in worry-free and supported-by-all, free-floating Inter ... but would he be the same in a trouble-ridden, post-calciopoli Milan? There is absolutely no guarantee that Ibra to Milan would have worked out any dif than Oliveira to Milan. It's easy to say "risk must be taken" but that's from the standpoint of someone who already knows the end result - Oli at Milan not so good, Ibra at Inter great - but from the standpoint of someone back then in August, either deal had it's risks and either one could go south under certain circumstances ... and Milan did take one such risk, they went for Oliveira.

Also, as I mentioned, if you are REALLY willing to go with 20+ fpr one striker, are 3-4 more mil gonna stop you? Of course not, but that's true only if you REALLY intended to have that player no matter what ... well, Milan didn't fit that description because:
1) we are not sure how decided Galliani were on getting Ibra and whether they truely believed that he was what they were looking for and
2) they were not sure of CL football so getting Ibra immediately was not something they could do ... they had to play the wayting game and I am sure that even if Milan's offere had proven to be enough to get Ibra, the actual transfer would have taken place only ON CONDITION that Milan qualify for CL ... Ibra and Inter however had other plans - Inter had the luxury of not having to wait, while Ibra had the personal interest of not wanting to wait and go for the sure thing.
So, there you go - 3-4 mil more is nothing but if you REALLY want that player. Things change, however, if you'd be interested in that player only if some other circumstances (Cl qualification) take place.

rahul.acm
30-01-2007, 17:41
Now Galliani, on the official website said that he was/is (?) discussing the Oli situation. The deal would be loan for six months and the option to buy. This makes one thing clear: WE HAVE OFFICIALLY GIVEN UP ON OLIVIERA! I wonder how much motivated Oli might be after knowing that he is not needed at Milan.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 17:48
Risk has to be taken.
CL wasn't secured but was a huge possibility ( i'd say some 80%).
Inter could have offered more for the second time, or they wouldn't have offered more and decided to back up. You won't know if you don't try.
Galliani decided to quit and he lost a lot for not taking the risk.

It's like now with Juve. We bought 3 players now, but what if we don't qualify for serie A ? It's still a risk.

And i'd mention Zambrotta again, although me and you allready discussed this in the past and we have different opinion on this matter.
Milan offered money for Zambro but didn't want to accept Juve's condition ( buying him in package with Thuram). Barcelona accepted it and they got them both.
Even when you were trying to buy Zambrotta you didn't have CL secured, but you still offered money for him. The problem was you sticked to your original offer, didn't wanna risk, and lost him also at the end.
For a transfer as big as Ibra's - outbidding Inter would have meant Milan's improved bid being 25-30 mil euros - Milan have to either directly ask Silvio for money or make sure that the honey jar is gonna be full before they take a big handfull out of it i.e. they had to be sure that CL money was a guarantee before they could go out and splash such big amount.
Also, we don't know Milan's finances and plans for the future - a new stadium has been discussed - so let's not speculate why Milan didn't just take from the money they got from Sheva ;)

Which brings me to my other point - while I agree that Juve's desire to sell Thuram in a package deal with Zambro may have had a certain negative effect on Milan's willingness to get the Italian, there is absolutely no guarantee that Milan didn't also want to wait till CL qualification was secured and only then go for Zambrotta - in fact, I am certain that this played an even bigger role than anything else (and let's not forget that there were some big question marks regarding the relations between Milan and Juve at the time).
In fact, when Zambro's transfer to Barca was being finalized, I am not sure that Milan were even aware of their future i.e. whether they will play CL qualifiers at all.
So, chances are that for Zambro going to Barca was a no-brainer once Milan started to stall the deal andtry to buy time ... It's not like he didn't wanna go and play for the CL winners.

As for Juve getting players before they have even qualified for Serie A - I doubt there is a soul in Italy that doubts that it will happen as early as next season.
But let me ask you something - did Juve buy those player while there were still -17 pts from the top, or did they startmaking plans for Serie A football only after they not only caught up with the other teams but actually took the lead in Serie B?
One other question - And how much exactly are Grygera and Salihamidzich gonna cost you in transfer fees? ... Why do you think they are going for free agents now rather than finalize the transfers of expensive players like Barzagli, Huntelaar and whatnot right now as opposed to during the summer? ... see my point ;)

Tony29.
30-01-2007, 21:28
Uhhh, 4:30 in the morning and i can't give some long answer
In short :
Money wasn't a problem at all for buying Ibra. The same amount , even more, was given for Oli+Ronaldo

Zambrotta could have chosen Milan even if you didn't play CL, and 17 M for him+Thuram wasn't much, even in a situation where Milan would have lost all those Millions from UEFA.
Milan didn't play CL in 1996 and they bought Baggio , they didn't play in 1998, 1999 and 2002 and it didn't stop them from buying Inzaghi, Bierhoff etc.
But i agree those were tough times for Milan, and there were more important things to think about. So i won't count that as a big mistake from Galliani.

Juve couldn't buy players when they were at -17 because they were trying to keep the old players. Buying new ones was impossibile, which wasn't the case with Milan in July/August. After that there was no transfer window opened, and it just happened the January TW to be at the same time when Juve's leading the standings.
And it's not like all 3 players Juve bought were for free. Secco payed 7.5 M Euro just for the other 50% of Criscito. The same money Milan payed for Ronaldo !
And even if Juve wants to buy some expensive player atm, it's practically impossibile. Who in his right mind would like to play in serie B if he can wait until summer and see every option he has.

At the end :
Il portiere della Nazionale, Gigi Buffon rompe gli indugi e annuncia: "Non ho ancora parlato con i miei dirigenti, ma resto alla Juve. Non penso all'Inter perchè il mio futuro è soltanto bianconero".
(Corriere dello Sport)
;)

nefremo
30-01-2007, 22:40
If Oliveira goes on loan to Real Madrid, doesnt that mean we'll free up a Non-EU spot? (and can possibly get Tevez/Pato?). Carraciolo is in the same class as Corradi and Del Vecchio. He is Premiership material, this guy absolutely sucks. I pray that we dont sign him.

How legit is the info of Pato signing Real and Real selling Cannavaro?

Oliveira's possibla departure won't change anything. Milan, or any other Italian club, doens't have non-EU space allocated to them. In other words, it doesn't matter how many non-EU players leave Milan, we will still only be allowed to buy one PER year from outside of Italy.
So for example.....we have already wasted that 1 non-EU buy this year with Oliveira this summer. So now even if all the non-EU players leave from Milan, we will still not be allowed to bring another non-EU player from outside of Italy untill July when the summer window begins.

I know it is confusing, but i hope i explained it good.

zlatanov
30-01-2007, 22:41
Uhhh, 4:30 in the morning and i can't give some long answer
In short :
Money wasn't a problem at all for buying Ibra. The same amount , even more, was given for Oli+Ronaldo

Zambrotta could have chosen Milan even if you didn't play CL, and 17 M for him+Thuram wasn't much, even in a situation where Milan would have lost all those Millions from UEFA.
Milan didn't play CL in 1996 and they bought Baggio , they didn't play in 1998, 1999 and 2002 and it didn't stop them from buying Inzaghi, Bierhoff etc.
But i agree those were tough times for Milan, and there were more important things to think about. So i won't count that as a big mistake from Galliani.

Juve couldn't buy players when they were at -17 because they were trying to keep the old players. Buying new ones was impossibile, which wasn't the case with Milan in July/August. After that there was no transfer window opened, and it just happened the January TW to be at the same time when Juve's leading the standings.
And it's not like all 3 players Juve bought were for free. Secco payed 7.5 M Euro just for the other 50% of Criscito. The same money Milan payed for Ronaldo !
And even if Juve wants to buy some expensive player atm, it's practically impossibile. Who in his right mind would like to play in serie B if he can wait until summer and see every option he has.

At the end :
Il portiere della Nazionale, Gigi Buffon rompe gli indugi e annuncia: "Non ho ancora parlato con i miei dirigenti, ma resto alla Juve. Non penso all'Inter perchè il mio futuro è soltanto bianconero".
(Corriere dello Sport)
;)
Tony, I think your idea of Milan finances is still stuck in the late 80s and 90s of the last century when Milan, helped by Silvio's checkbook, were splashing cash like there was no tomorrow. In the beginning of the 2000s, however, Silvio had to step in and pay out of his own pocket somewhere close to 150 mil of Milan's debts and since then things are very very different here.

Another reason for Milan becoming more and more of a self-sustaining business is that Silvio is getting older and naturally his children are moving in and taking chanrge of the family companies. His kids however don't share Silvio's soft spot for Milan but see the club more as a burden to Fininvest rather than something that's worth sustaining.

Milan is now a club that tries to balance it's own books, one way or another ;), and stay as far as possible from their good old habit of going to Papa Silvio's headquarters and coming back with a phat check for 50 or 100 mil for summer purchases.

Keeping that in mind, and keeping in mind that Gilardino's 23-24 mil transfer is just about the only high-profile, big money transfer Milan has made over the past 4 years, do you really think that dishing out 17-19 mil on the Zambro+Thuram package is just a hickup for Milan especially without knowing whether we'd be allowed to play CL qualifiers to begin with (because, if I am not mistaken, when this transfer was taking place, Milan was still not sure of what their final calciopoli verdict would be).

Do we need to even go to a 25 mil Ibra transfer saga, where there is a good chance that Inter would have raised the ante again and the transfer fee would have gotten even closer to 30 mil? ... And you mean money i.e. CL or not, was not the problem? Yeah, I wish you were right but Milan has become a club that heavily relies on this income and out transfer campaign are in direct relation to our results on the field simply because Silvio is no longer the open bank vault he used to be and, as he himself said, he would pay from his own money only in case of a high-profile tranbsfer like Ronaldinho's in which case a real financial sacrifice would have to be made and Milan, as a club, would find it impossible to even think of.

All in all, the good times of expensive transfer by the dozen is over for Milan and this has been the case for some time now and transfers like Zambrotta's or Ibra's are indeed dependent on the amount of money Milan cashes in from CL, sponsor deals, tv rights, etc, etc but not Silvio's personal fortune ... yeah, now we have to actually be careful who we buy and for how much we buy him cause the honey pot is no longer bottomless.

True, Ronaldo+Oliveira cost us virtually as much as Ibra cost Inter but this is again an argument that's based on judging things in retrospect, supported by facts you NOW know ... the easiest way to ALWAYS make the right decision, that is ;).

As for Juve, true, they couldn't buy even if they wanted because there was no transfer window back then, but do you really believe that they would have bought an expensive player (5-10mil) even if they could with -17 pts and a big ? mark hanging upon their future? And right now Juve is going after mostly free agents ... in the summer, when they will be assured of Serie A place, you will see that the big money moves will start taking place but not before that, not before they have assured themselves of some solid income into the club's registers.

Also, I think the deal for Criscito was worth 7.5 mil euros but it also involved two youngsters going the other way, so Juve had to pay around 5 mil euros in cash and that was payable over the next 3 years - not exactly a finacial burden if you ask me given that Boumsong was just about the only purchase Juve had to make at the beginnign of this season with several free agents coming in their ranks (Zanetti, Marchionni, etc).

I personally think that this is way too much for a totally unproven player/prospect becuase it turns out that his total worth is 10-15 mil euros ... not sure what to make out of such a deal, sure the guy is hyped to be a talanted prospect but this, let's be serious, this type of money would buy you, or close to it, defenders like Barzagli, Alex, Mexes ... I can't help it but see in it another bilanci-forging affair or at best a job not-so-well done by Secco and co :sagrin:

kris
31-01-2007, 02:19
however, teams in Spain cannot have more than 5 non-EU players on their team (and it doesn't matter whether they have played for another Spanish team or not, they are still non-Eu) and cannot play/field more than 3 such non-EU at the same time.

They can only have three in their La Liga squad, not five.

Arildonardo
31-01-2007, 03:35
Tony, I think your idea of Milan finances is stillstuck in the late 80s and 90s of the last century when Milan, helped by Silvio's checkbook, were splashing cash like there was no tomorrow. In the beginning of the 2000s, however, Silvio had to step in and pay out of his own pocket somewhere close to 150 mil of Milan's debts and since then things are very very different here.

Another reason for Milan becoming more and more of a self-sustaining business is that Silvio is getting older and naturally his children are moving in and taking chanrge of the family companies. His kids however don't share Silvio's soft spot for Milan but see the club more as a burden to Fininvest rather anything that's worth sustaining.

Milan is now a club that tries to balance it's own books, one way or another ;), and stay as far as possible from their good old habit of going to Papa Silvio's headquarters and coming back with a phat check for 50 or 100 mil for summer purchases.

Keeping that in mind, and keeping in mind that Gilardino's 23-24 mil transfer is just about the only high-profile, big money transfer Milan has made over the past 4 years, do you reall thing that dishing out 17-19 mil on the Zambro+Thuram package is just a hickup for Milan especially without knowing whether we'd be allowed to play CL qualifiers to begin with (because, if I am not mistaken, when this transfer was taking place, Milan was still not sure of what their final calciopoli verdict would be).

Do we need to even go to a 25 mil Ibra transfer sage, where there is a good chance that Inter would have raised the ante again and the transfer fee get closer to 30 mil? ... And you are telling me that money and CL or not was not the money? Yeah, I wish you were right but Milan has become a club that heavily relies on this income and out transfer campaign are in direct relation to our results on the field simply because Silvio is no longer the open bank vault he used to be and, as he himself said, he would pay from his own money only in case of a highprofile tranbsfer like Ronaldinho's in which case a real financial sacrifice would have to be made and Milan, as a club, would find it impossible to even think of.

All in all, the good times of expensive transfer by the dozen is over for Milan and this has been the case for some time now and transfers like Zambrotta's or Ibra's are indeed dependent on the amount of money Milan cashes in from CL, sponsor deals, tv rights, etc, etc but not Silvio's personal fortune ... yeah, now we have to actually be careful who we buy and for how much we buy him cause the honey pot is no longer bottomless.

As for Juve, true, they couldn't buy even if they wanted because there was no transfer window back then, but do you really believe that they would have bought an expensive player (5-10mil) even if they could with -17 pts and a big ? mark hanging upon their future? And right now Juve is going after mostly free agents ... in the summer, when theywill be assured of Serie A place, you will see that the big money moves will start taking place but not before that, not before they have assured themselves of some solid income into the club's registers.

Also, I think the deal for Criscito was worth 7.5 mil euros but it also involved two youngsters going the other way, so Juve had to pay around 5 mil euros in cash and that was for the next 3 years - not exactly a finacial burden if you ask me given that Boumsong was just about the only purchase Juve had to make at the beginnign of this season with several free agents coming in their ranks (Zanetti, Marchionni, etc).

I personally think that this is way too much for a totally unproven player/prospect becuase it turns out that his total worth is 10-15 mil euros ... not sure what to make out of such a deal, sure the guy is hyped to be a talanted prospect but this, let's be serious, this type of money would buy you defenders like Barzagli, Alex, Mexes ... I can't help it but see in it another bilanci-forging affair :sagrin:
I totally agree. Good post!

On the other hand, I'd rather see Berlusconi buy us ten talented players (like Pato, Mexes or others) than one Ronaldinho for the same amount of money... A team is so much more than one player.

Stitch
31-01-2007, 06:01
i have a question...

as seen on the liverpool trying to get mascherano, there seems to be a FIFA rule which prohibits a footballer to be a member of more than two teams during one year period. how is it possible then for Oli to go to Real???

zlatanov
31-01-2007, 06:18
i have a question...

as seen on the liverpool trying to get mascherano, there seems to be a FIFA rule which prohibits a footballer to be a member of more than two teams during one year period. how is it possible then for Oli to go to Real???
it's not, that's eactly what seems to be the problem right now for this transfer to happen - they will need a special ruling by FIFA to allow Oliveira play for Real as they would be the 3rd club he'd play for withing 1 year, the other two being Sao Paolo (on loan from Betis) and Milan ... I don't think Betis counts here.

Stitch
31-01-2007, 06:24
screw it, why don't they just eliminate the rule, if every team that applies can get an exception. it only shows how bogus fifa's work is :D

zlatanov
31-01-2007, 07:32
They can only have three in their La Liga squad, not five.
are you sure about that?
Because I'm pretty sure that in Spain they can have 5 non-EU players on the squad but can field at most 3 of those at the same time.
For instance, the non-EU players at Real M are Cicinho, Gago, Robinho, Diarra, and Marcelo ... they send Marcello to their B team, Castilla, in order to open up an extra non-EU spot which would possibly be taken by Oliveira if he goes there.

Stitch
31-01-2007, 08:07
Milan eye Lamp
Milan have expressed their interest in Chelsea star Frank Lampard after it was revealed that they could sign the England international for just £8m at the end of the season under current FIFA rules. “If that is the case then of course it is interesting news,” said Rossoneri director general Ariedo Braida. “Lampard is a very good player, one of the best around, and this is something I wasn’t aware of at all. I am glad I have been made aware of the situation.” There have been rumours that Lampard could leave England if Blues boss Jose Mourinho departs Stamford Bridge and it is claimed the pair could meet up again in Serie A.


Somehow I think this is about Dinho. Gall knows that he's Barca's target, so he could use "giving up on Lampard" as a bonus in Toothy deal

Warp05
31-01-2007, 09:32
From eurosport.com

Real Madrid and Milan have reportedly agreed a loan deal sending Ricardo Oliveira to the Bernabeu, but they will need FIFA approval allowing him to play for three teams in a season.

:p1510:

King tiger
31-01-2007, 09:35
Hope FIFA rejects :D

King tiger
31-01-2007, 10:50
Il sito del quotidiano spagnolo Marca rivela che l'incontro tra Adriano Galliani e la dirigenza 'merengue' sul brasiliano Oliveira non è andato a buon fine. L'attaccante, dunque, resta alla corte di Carlo Ancelotti.

from calciomercato.

So, it seems that Oli will stay with us.

Tony29.
31-01-2007, 10:58
from calciomercato.

So, it seems that Oli will stay with us.
I was just about to post the same thing.
Yes, according to "Marca", there's no Oli deal and he'll stay in Milan !

oskarius
31-01-2007, 11:08
Good, I'm still hoping Oli will eventually rediscover his good form and show what he is capable of..Though it's not comfortable for him now knowing that he was one step away from leaving the club..Nevertheless, he could consider this as another chance to prove his worth, just imagine the in-form duo of Oli and Ronaldo, devastating.. :eekani:

mrki
31-01-2007, 11:15
Oliveira has shown nothing but poor football in Milan, that is the reality. Now we have this situation: Gila needs to play, he is young italian forward. Pippo needs to play or he'll go mad I suppose, plus, Pippo is always super Pippo! Ronaldo has to play if we want him back in real form, he cant do that on the bench.... Oliveira will sit this semester out....for sure.

Pajo
31-01-2007, 11:20
Oliveira is better then Pippo...

I mean c'mon, putting a great player in the name on Oliveira on the bench, so that Pippo can play... He hasn't shown good games, yeah, but wait a bit, he will gain his form. He was class in Betis...

Warp05
31-01-2007, 11:22
So we could have two attacking line:

Pippo + Oli - for champions league
Ronaldo + Gila - for serie a

And than any combination for cup if we beat Roma tonight!

:ilol:

zlatanov
31-01-2007, 11:42
I am glad that he is staying, although I have to question Milan's approach in this case as almost dumping a player out hardly shows much confidence in RO and is hardly the way to go in helping him regain his form amidst other issues surrounding him.

As for the result of thenegotiations, I guess it was to be xpected given that Real wanted RO on loan for nothing, absolutely free, while Milan reportedly asked for 1.5 mil (a bit too much considering that we are midway through the season) ... add to this the speacial permission they needed from FIFA so that RO can play for a 3rd club - a permission that, if there was enough time, would have most probably been granted as the situation is identical to that of Mascherano, and he got it - and I guess it's commendable for Galliani and Calderon that they even thought they could pull off something like this :rolleyes:

Also, to make things even "easier", Zamparini came out this morning and said that Caracciolo, Milan's primary target to replace RO, is staying put as there simply wasn't enough time to negotiate a proper deal for the player and his substitute at Palermo.

Mystik
31-01-2007, 13:56
^^^ blessing in disguise...I heard the guy isn't anything special.

eltomas2
31-01-2007, 14:59
good, glad Oli is staying, more options and more depth, you never know who's gonna get injured, even though Oli is struggling I think he's still better than that Caracciolo guy

Stitch
31-01-2007, 15:58
No Real deal for Oliveira
Wednesday 31 January, 2007
Ricardo Oliveira will terminate the campaign with Milan after his proposed loan move to Real Madrid collapsed.

I don't get this? He will TERMINATE the campaigh with milan?

zlatanov
31-01-2007, 16:48
I don't get this? He will TERMINATE the campaigh with milan?
meaning that RO will finish the current season with Milan, not Real.

Stitch
31-01-2007, 17:46
oh, thanks pops :D got it now, but weird expression nonetheless :D

rt9
31-01-2007, 22:01
I dont understand our approach to RO. We sign him saying he is a great player, but yet we dont give him much playing time. What good will it do if he plays fifteen minutes every game? And then we insist on playing Pippo with Gila--which clearly doesnt work.

From what I've seen of RO, he is a pretty good player--fast, skillful, and has got a great shot. All he needs is some regular playing time and patience. Ancelotti ought to start him for at least four or five games in a row, and then we can pass some proper judgment.

nefremo
31-01-2007, 22:17
I agree with you rt9. However with us chasing the 4th position there is simply no time to give Oliveira 4 or 5 starts if he doesn't score. What he needs is one good game with a goal and then he needs to build on it. He has had that one good game a few times, but then he has failed to build on it.
For example Gila, he got that one goal and then built on it and kept scoring. All of a sudden he is our starter, that is how things work. Oli has to do the same and the sooner he does it the better.

rt9
01-02-2007, 01:52
I hear you nefremo. But the team definitely has some double standards. Seedorf has been having some miserable games as of late combined with the one or two good games. But yet, he has the full confidence of the coach and starts every game, leaving Gourcuff on the bench. Same goes with Pirlo---he can easily be dropped or rested, but plays every game regardless of his form. Pippo up until the last game wasnt playing particularly well, yet Carlo starts him in partnership with Gila.

What I'm trying to say is that the same level of confidence has to be given to RO if he is to make an impact. Carlo should play him and insist on playing him until he starts scoring. And really, we are only three points away from 4th spot---if I had a choice between Pippo and Oli to partner Gila, I would be RO anyday...Pippo is a great striker, but only if played in the box. Out on the flanks or deeper in midfield his is near useless. This is where RO can be very useful---I'm just hoping he gets a proper run before we discard him...

kris
01-02-2007, 06:28
What I'm trying to say is that the same level of confidence has to be given to RO if he is to make an impact. Carlo should play him and insist on playing him until he starts scoring.

We can not afford to do that, we are not Udinese.

MOOD
01-02-2007, 06:36
the only thing we need is a new coach...

joumasepoes
01-02-2007, 11:53
Actually we need a better midfield and a younger defence, not a new coach

rosoneri_11
01-02-2007, 12:05
Actually we need a better midfield and a younger defence, not a new coach

Actually we had a young nidfielder Gourcuff but our coach do not give him games to play!!!Seedorf can't run but Ancelotti uses him istead of Gourcuff.
So who has the problem???I think with that mind Ancelotti should be replaced!

MOOD
01-02-2007, 14:41
ancelotti has no more ideas to change the game of milan, and this is a bad thing... ive never saw a bad milan like that...

tipi
02-02-2007, 02:29
ancelotti has no more ideas to change the game of milan, and this is a bad thing... ive never saw a bad milan like that...

I agree with you. We need new ideas.....and our game is realy boring, slow and predictable.

rahul.acm
02-02-2007, 21:38
"Per me Ronaldinho non si muoverà mai dal Barcellona. Ma se mai ci fosse un'occasione il Milan sarebbe in pole position". Sono parole di Adriano Galliani, amministratore delegato del Milan, pronunciate ai microfoni di Sky dopo la presentazione ufficiale di Ronaldo. L'ad rossonero prosegue "Non credo che una società così ricca e potente come il Barcellona possa privarsi di un tale giocatore. E' chiaro che se lo dovessero fare noi ci saremmo, questo è l'input chiarissimo che ho avuto da Silvio Berlusconi". Sull'acquisto del 'Fenomeno', Galliani non ha dubbi: "Penso che Ronaldo sia un giocatore molto importante che possa sostituire degnamente Shevchenko".

Regarding the Ronaldinho part:

Galliani says that Barca would never let a player like Rolandinho go but if Barca does decide to sell him Milan will be in pole position.

Seems like we are going in the right direction to get his signature. I am getting a bad feeling that we have changed our objectives recently. I hate the way Ronaldo's arrival is being blown up. I hope we are and remain on the right track.

lked
03-02-2007, 05:32
Galliani is right Barca wouldn't let a players like Ronloadinho/Messi/Eto'o leave their club Question : Is Ronaldo the surprise big sign that Galliani promised to us ? :noevil2:

mrki
03-02-2007, 06:14
Calderon says him and Galliani also spoke of Kaka' when they were concluding Ronaldo deal! Is Galliani crazy, what is wrong with him really????? Anmd then, Calderon says something like: " if kaka' was to be transfered, it will be Real Madrid..." WTH?? :dstup:

zlatanov
03-02-2007, 06:36
mrki, honestly man, is someone paying you to create conspiracy theories and controversies around Galliani? :D

Calderon said something and you immedaitely get caught in it ... if half of the things that came out of his mouth were true, Kaka would have been playing for RM as we speak plus RM club members wouldn't be sorry already for having ellected Calderon president ... he and that slick bum Mijatovic have been telling all sorts of stories how Kaka will for sure play for them next season or how they would for sure get their hands on Kaka and what not.

but even if it were true, they spoke of Kaka, so what? It's not like RM have obtained a documented first option on him and he'd be leaving at the end of the season for Madrid ... if we were to sell Kaka, it will be to the highest bidder and RM is naturally one of the few clubs out there that could possibly afford Kaka and probably the first choice for Kaka himself, as well.

mrki
03-02-2007, 06:57
Seems like I just really dont like Galliani.... :) I didnt said its true, I just said I read it today in an interwiew. There is too much talk around Kaka', that is not a good thing for sure.

zlatanov
03-02-2007, 07:33
there will always be a lot of talk around Kaka and that should be flattering to Milan and it's fans because if Kaka's in such a high demand, it means he is doing well ... you see someone fight over Zebina :D
For now it looks like Real M has backed off Kaka - Milan and Real seems to have improved their rapport over the Ronaldo affair and the RO debacle - and are about to concentrate on getting another high-profile player, ManU's C. Ronaldo, so at least for now you can relax and cut Galliani some slack :D

mrki
03-02-2007, 07:50
When he brings Ronaldinho, I'll be happy! :sagrin: Seriously, I believe Galliani is a auper professional, but the man is almost 70, and people normally loose motivation and strenght. Noone is eternal... Except Maldini! :5schal:

Our mercato was not good in the last 3 years, we were too late or too unprofessional so the directors were picking up players, not the coach. Now all we need is to catch that CL spot and we are fine. Then, in the summer, I'll attack Galliani some more :) Untill then - FORZA MILAN!

Xudong
03-02-2007, 09:46
If we have the money of Ronaldinho, I would be happier if we go for a bigger bunch of players: Buffon, Zambrotta, Diarra/Barusso and I don't mind Cassano at all. that would be more much helpful tactically.

But at the same time, I also understand that if we buy Ronaldinho, we will be sending out a strong signal that we are still No.1 in the football world. And that would be much needed.

So let's double the money, :D and buy Ronaldinho and all the other players I just mentioned. :ilol:

zlatanov
03-02-2007, 10:02
I believe Barusso is either already a Milan player or Milan has an option on him for 3 mil euros and are just waiting to see how things go with his injury.
There have been numerous reports/rumours that Barusso will join Milan either in summer of 2007 or the one in 2008, I guess it would depend on when Milan need him.

mrki
03-02-2007, 10:07
Who is he????

Xudong
03-02-2007, 10:44
He plays in Rimini (serie B team), and he is from Ghana i think. I heard that he is like a new Michael Essien. Juventus were also interested in him, but we obviously have some special tie with Rimini, as Digao, Kaka's brother plays there too.

I hope that this rumor turns out true, he is young and talented, even though he is currently under a long injury.

ACMILAN1983
03-02-2007, 10:49
for Mrki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Barusso

Giorgos
03-02-2007, 15:27
What's your opinion about Lambard, it isn't an easy situation, but he seems to want to leave Stamford Bridge.

zlatanov
03-02-2007, 15:37
I personally doubt that he would be able to adapt to life and football in Serie A and be for Milan as importnat a player he is for Chelski. If, however, those rumours of him being available for around 12-13 mil are true, I wouldn't mind getting him because even if he doesn't make it in Italy, we could always trade to Barca or Real in return for one of their quality players.

I personally think, however, that Lampard would go to Barca - I think his girlfriend is Spanish and from Barcelona ;) - and Barca would end up trading Xavi + money to ManU for C. Ronaldo.

Xudong
03-02-2007, 15:52
I like him, but for some reason I don't want him at Milan; and I don't think he will fit into our system either.

I am a stubborn admirer of Italian homegrown stars, like Oddo, Buffon and Zambrotta or even Cassano. :)

To think that we could have signed them all had Galliani done things right. :5hoest: :irritate:

Jim_UK
03-02-2007, 16:06
i think he'd fit into seedorf's position reasonably comfortably assuming he settled in italy out right.

his role at chelsea, or at least his original role when they played a 4-3-3, is more or less the same as it would be for us. He'd also add some drive/hussle to our play, not to mention determination and effort. I'm not his biggest fan, but for a supposed £8 million buy-out clause you'd be hard pushed to find a better all round central midfielder.

I think there is a chance he might come here, but to be honest i see him at Barcelona and probably in a swap deal with Deco.

rt9
03-02-2007, 18:43
We can not afford to do that, we are not Udinese.

Am I missing something here? Do we have to be Udinese to give our new signing some playing time? Do we have to be Udinese to be able to rely on other players to pick up some slack while the "new signing" adjusts to serie a football?

Do you play football? If you do, you'll understand that fifteen minutes as a substitute, no matter how many you get, is not enough for a player to show his true value. If we had the courage to spend so much on RO, we have to have enough courage to play him consistently before giving up on him.

kastriot
03-02-2007, 18:45
i think he'd fit into seedorf's position reasonably comfortably assuming he settled in italy out right.

his role at chelsea, or at least his original role when they played a 4-3-3, is more or less the same as it would be for us. He'd also add some drive/hussle to our play, not to mention determination and effort. I'm not his biggest fan, but for a supposed £8 million buy-out clause you'd be hard pushed to find a better all round central midfielder.

I think there is a chance he might come here, but to be honest i see him at Barcelona and probably in a swap deal with Deco.
I agree with Jim...he`d probably go t barca in a swap deal with Deco...Deco is a favorite player for Mourinho

rt9
03-02-2007, 18:49
That is, if Mourinho is still around next year....

mrki
05-02-2007, 04:47
For the first time we have been linked with Abidal from Lyon! That would be perfect solution for our LB as then Jankulovski could play on the left midfielder role, just behind Ronaldinho... :)

rossoneri
05-02-2007, 05:19
imaging ronaldinho alongside with kaka :D

Jim_UK
05-02-2007, 05:34
indeed that would be something, especially if Ronaldo finds some sort of form/fitness again and Ronaldinho stops playing for Brazil for a year to recharge.

kris
05-02-2007, 05:59
Am I missing something here? Do we have to be Udinese to give our new signing some playing time? Do we have to be Udinese to be able to rely on other players to pick up some slack while the "new signing" adjusts to serie a football?

He have started plenty of games, but if a team is in the position where it is demanded to win every single game then it is clearly a bit much to ask to continue playing someone who doesn't deliver. Playing 4 games with a Oliveira that doesn't score could be the difference between UCL and UEFA cup. It is true he could turn out good, but as it is he have had plenty of opportunities to do something.

For a team like Udinese it is different because they don't have that big demands on them and could play on a player they know can improve until he does.

Do you play football? If you do, you'll understand that fifteen minutes as a substitute, no matter how many you get, is not enough for a player to show his true value. If we had the courage to spend so much on RO, we have to have enough courage to play him consistently before giving up on him.

As I said, he have started plenty of games, out of the games he started he have scored in one. It is also not like we played better with him on the pitch either...

rt9
05-02-2007, 21:45
For the record, here are some stats from acmilan.com. I wasnt able to get exact figures for number of starts, but I think the number of minutes do give a pretty decent picture:

Inzaghi 17 Appearances 952 minutes 2 goals

Oliveira 16 Appearances 769 minutes 2 goals

Both have scored only 2 goals in serie a this year, although Inzaghi has been getting more starts and almost 200 more minutes. If you want to look strictly at goal return, then starting INzaghi is certainly no more advantageous than playing RO.

Your logic about comparing Milan with Udinese is warped. If we were a small club with thin resources who are desparate to qualify for a UEFA cup or escape relegation, then we have no choice, we have to keep playing players who are in form and we dont have the "luxury" of giving some of our new signings too much of a chance. On the other hand, if you are a big club with enormous resources, a big squad, then you have no problems rotating your squad, having confidence in new players, and giving them a chance---because the rest of your players are of high enough quality to pick up the slack. For instance, if Kaka was playing for Udinese, they would have to play him every game to stand a chance of qualifying for Europe. Now with Kaka playing for us, we dont have to do that. We can rest him for a few games, play Seedorf in his position, try out Gourcuff there, or even play him for a couple of games when he's off-form---why? Because we have the squad depth to be able to do that. Likewise, we have enough squad depth to play RO for at least five or six games continuous. Your contention about us missing out on a European spot for giving a striker some playing time is way exagerrated to say the least.

Lastly, you ask if the team is better with RO on the pitch. Your opinion may be different to mine, but I dont see the GIla/Pippo partnership working. Pippo does not have the pace or skill to do anything outside the penalty box. Gila can only hold up the ball and pass it back. With RO on the pitch, I see a big difference in the way we play. We are more dynamic, he drops back picks up the ball and adds some pace to our forward line, especially during counter attacks. With a similar goal record in serie a, would it then not be better to start playing RO more consistently? The best case scenario would be that he starts to shine and score goals, then we start getting a return on our heavy investment. The worst---he doesnt do much for 4-5 games, we know he is not suited to our team, and we sell him in the summer after giving him a proper chance and KNOWING that he is not good enough.

kris
06-02-2007, 02:52
For the record, here are some stats from acmilan.com. I wasnt able to get exact figures for number of starts, but I think the number of minutes do give a pretty decent picture:

Inzaghi 17 Appearances 952 minutes 2 goals
Oliveira 16 Appearances 769 minutes 2 goals

Both have scored only 2 goals in serie a this year, although Inzaghi has been getting more starts and almost 200 more minutes. If you want to look strictly at goal return, then starting INzaghi is certainly no more advantageous than playing RO.

I never compared him with Inzaghi. clearly there is not much between them in playing time and neither have proved themself as starters, which kinds of explains why neither is a sure starter and why we just used one striker in a couple of games. Your argument was that Oliveira hadn't got a chance to prove himself, but these figures shows more than 12 complete games, so clearly he have got his chances.

Your logic about comparing Milan with Udinese is warped. If we were a small club with thin resources who are desparate to qualify for a UEFA cup or escape relegation, then we have no choice, we have to keep playing players who are in form and we dont have the "luxury" of giving some of our new signings too much of a chance.

Udinese is a middle placed team that keep their economy afloat by staying in serie A and selling players for big bucks to the bigger teams. they don't havemoney to replace a player that don't perform directly so they will have to let him play into form or at least get enough playing time to show some sort of value. since they are a middle placed team they don't have much demands, neither from fans nor managment, as long as they are not relegated which seldom is a problem. If Milan on the other hand suddenly loses a game there is just created several threads here about player sucking, manager needed to be booted and about all our problems. the difference is HUGE.

ps. there does not exist any clubs in Italy that is "desperate" for the UEFA cup. In fact the teams qualifying hardly cares about it, it brings little to no income, is negative for their serie A campaign and isn't prestigious in any way.

On the other hand, if you are a big club with enormous resources, a big squad, then you have no problems rotating your squad, having confidence in new players, and giving them a chance---because the rest of your players are of high enough quality to pick up the slack.

This is simply not true. The difference in football ain't so big that you can have one or worse, several non-performers saved by one player. Unless that player is a genious scoring every game. For sure that can be the case in as much as 2/3 games, but not winning every third game is clearly not good enough for a club our stature.

Have you followed Milan at all? I mean just look at all the players we bought and replaced because they didn't perform and compare that to smaller teams without our resources. We give a new player some chances during a season, if he fail he is replaced. Udinese or Sampdoria can't afford to do that, they can't keep on buying new players until someone succed, they have to do with what they have.

For instance, if Kaka was playing for Udinese, they would have to play him every game to stand a chance of qualifying for Europe. Now with Kaka playing for us, we dont have to do that. We can rest him for a few games, play Seedorf in his position, try out Gourcuff there, or even play him for a couple of games when he's off-form---why? Because we have the squad depth to be able to do that.

for them winning=good, for us winning=must. Sure in a shorter perspective we could be without one of our best players, but then would have to play other players who are more sure to perform. Think now instead if we play the non-performing Oliveira and Inzaghi with Seedorf behind them, would you as a fan feel confident that we would score?

Still what you say here goes partly in counter to what you said before. clearly our squad depth is what means we don't have to give chances to someone like Oliveira. Because our squad depth means that we have others who is in better form to use. It doesn't mean that we have others to play instead of the ones performing, for only the ones performing is important when you MUST WIN.

Likewise, we have enough squad depth to play RO for at least five or six games continuous. Your contention about us missing out on a European spot for giving a striker some playing time is way exagerrated to say the least.

Your logic is twisted. undoubtedly more players means more options which in turn means that the less you perform, the more players in front of you. Now if he instead was the replacment for Iaquinta, then he would have who as competition? Youth players, the lack of squad depth there would mean they would have to play him and possibly give the youngsters a chance.

Lastly, you ask if the team is better with RO on the pitch. Your opinion may be different to mine, but I dont see the GIla/Pippo partnership working.

I asked if the team looked better with him on the pitch, not to compare him with Inzaghi/Gila playing together. Several games we have played with only Gila. As for my question I am talking about what he contributed to the team so far and from what I seen that is very little. He takes shots over goal all the time and is very selfish so far.

Pippo does not have the pace or skill to do anything outside the penalty box. Gila can only hold up the ball and pass it back. With RO on the pitch, I see a big difference in the way we play. We are more dynamic, he drops back picks up the ball and adds some pace to our forward line, especially during counter attacks.

Oh, he runs with the ball alright, problem is that we doesn't pass his teammates. but I agree that he is a better fit to Gila than Inzaghi, I never said anything apart from that. I been saying he have been given plenty of chance to prove himself and have this far failed in that.

With a similar goal record in serie a, would it then not be better to start playing RO more consistently? The best case scenario would be that he starts to shine and score goals, then we start getting a return on our heavy investment. The worst---he doesnt do much for 4-5 games, we know he is not suited to our team, and we sell him in the summer after giving him a proper chance and KNOWING that he is not good enough.

why would 4-5 games show you this? considering he have already played more than that with us? thats what I am saying, he have already had that chance, sure we can give him more chances, but now with Ronaldo here I would rather give Ronaldo the chance first. Oliveira have to take his chances when they come up again, clearly just letting him play at this time would be a gamble.

ps. Similar goal record in serie A compared to Inzaghi? If that was what you meant then you ignored every season but this one.

ZvonimirVukic
06-02-2007, 08:37
Milan ponder Dzemaili swoop
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/
he is awsome player
he was tipped to be one of the stars in swiss team on world cup but he didnt get chance to prove himself

Tony29.
06-02-2007, 09:27
Milan ponder Dzemaili swoop
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/
he is awsome player
he was tipped to be one of the stars in swiss team on world cup but he didnt get chance to prove himself
For 10100033535'th time in last 2-3 months, a player who has been earlier connected to Juve or Inter is now connected to Milan ( or vice versa)
----------------------------------------------
Juve join Dzemaili hunt , January 25 , 2007
Swiss international Blerim Dzemaili is set to join either Bolton or Juventus, according to his father. The Albania-born FC Zurich captain can leave on a free this summer, is weighing up several offers and is certain to leave Switzerland.
The player himself had expressed a desire to join Bolton after a recent trial with the Trotters but Juve appear to have entered the bidding for the highly-rated 20-year-old.

"At that time we will decide. Bolton and Juventus have made very attractive offers but there are other teams showing interest."
Dzemaili's contract expires in July.
Eurosport
-------------------------------
Are journalists inventing these stories or the big 3 Italian teams are really going after the same players ?

Warro Bantan
06-02-2007, 09:35
Could be Tony..we dont share scouts, but rumors are bound to fly, and I am sure the coaching cadre of each club kno each other...so if one hears that another is going to FC Zurich to watch and evaluate a player, then, dont u think the other will fly out to see just what/whom this guy is going to see?

Plus, it is easier, and prints more copies (of gets more hits) if Milan, Inter or Juve are mentioned in connection with a player.

For example, an artice that says Dzemaili targeted by top Italian teams, wont get my mouseclick...but say: Milan after Dzemaili...and I am clicking away like crazy....

Jim_UK
06-02-2007, 10:28
he was tipped to be one of the stars in swiss team on world cup but he didnt get chance to prove himself


Seeing how Gourcuff hardly gets a look in anymore, i doubt he'd get a chance with us either.

I want to know who it is who gets to classify these players as "the next big thing". I know it's to generate interest, but it just gets on my nerves. In the papers today Arsenal are supposed to be close to signing the new French whizz-kid striker ... tomorrow there'll be another new talent, it gets so tiresome.

rahul.acm
06-02-2007, 10:38
I think we should contract Arsene Wenger to give us a tip about the new emerging youngsters in the market. He is pretty good at it. Arsenal has so many good players who are very young and there is a good chance that most of them will become stars. Its not even like they are a headless team just like anyone would suppose a very young team to be.

Warro Bantan
06-02-2007, 10:57
Seeing how Gourcuff hardly gets a look in anymore, i doubt he'd get a chance with us either. Kaka too was running this risk, until his scorcher of a goal on his debut...then he slowly eclipsed Rui...

Gourcuff will get his chances...its just that his impact wasnt as massive as Kaka´s.

Plus, Carlo wasnt really (IMO) a fan of Rui Costa, as he seems to be of Clarence...and its Clarence that is keeping Gourcuff on the bench...why? Only Carlo knows.

This guy, who the article on channel4.com indicates may be loaned out right away....will probably get an opportunity also, when we have Coppa Italia matches to play, etc...he most certainly wont go on loan if he is evaluated in training, and proves an exceptional talent... :stoned:

ZvonimirVukic
06-02-2007, 12:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Q5UqshCGg


something taped for joga bonito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8k1KI14OZY&mode=related&search=

his first goal


i`am talking about blerim dzemaili....sorry

Jim_UK
06-02-2007, 13:10
Gourcuff will get his chances...its just that his impact wasnt as massive as Kaka´s.

Plus, Carlo wasnt really (IMO) a fan of Rui Costa, as he seems to be of Clarence...and its Clarence that is keeping Gourcuff on the bench...why? Only Carlo knows.

This guy, who the article on channel4.com indicates may be loaned out right away....will probably get an opportunity also, when we have Coppa Italia matches to play, etc...he most certainly wont go on loan if he is evaluated in training, and proves an exceptional talent... :stoned:

But that's the point as we both well know Warro my friend, Gourcuff's first real game was the CL tie v AEK Athens where he stole the show and the paper's raved about him for a while afterwards. You'd think he'd have had more chances to show his potential, but he hasn't and not even in Coppa Italia games. It's criminal that he's not used more.

rt9
06-02-2007, 20:27
I never compared him with Inzaghi. clearly there is not much between them in playing time and neither have proved themself as starters, which kinds of explains why neither is a sure starter and why we just used one striker in a couple of games. Your argument was that Oliveira hadn't got a chance to prove himself, but these figures shows more than 12 complete games, so clearly he have got his chances.



Udinese is a middle placed team that keep their economy afloat by staying in serie A and selling players for big bucks to the bigger teams. they don't havemoney to replace a player that don't perform directly so they will have to let him play into form or at least get enough playing time to show some sort of value. since they are a middle placed team they don't have much demands, neither from fans nor managment, as long as they are not relegated which seldom is a problem. If Milan on the other hand suddenly loses a game there is just created several threads here about player sucking, manager needed to be booted and about all our problems. the difference is HUGE.

ps. there does not exist any clubs in Italy that is "desperate" for the UEFA cup. In fact the teams qualifying hardly cares about it, it brings little to no income, is negative for their serie A campaign and isn't prestigious in any way.



This is simply not true. The difference in football ain't so big that you can have one or worse, several non-performers saved by one player. Unless that player is a genious scoring every game. For sure that can be the case in as much as 2/3 games, but not winning every third game is clearly not good enough for a club our stature.

Have you followed Milan at all? I mean just look at all the players we bought and replaced because they didn't perform and compare that to smaller teams without our resources. We give a new player some chances during a season, if he fail he is replaced. Udinese or Sampdoria can't afford to do that, they can't keep on buying new players until someone succed, they have to do with what they have.



for them winning=good, for us winning=must. Sure in a shorter perspective we could be without one of our best players, but then would have to play other players who are more sure to perform. Think now instead if we play the non-performing Oliveira and Inzaghi with Seedorf behind them, would you as a fan feel confident that we would score?

Still what you say here goes partly in counter to what you said before. clearly our squad depth is what means we don't have to give chances to someone like Oliveira. Because our squad depth means that we have others who is in better form to use. It doesn't mean that we have others to play instead of the ones performing, for only the ones performing is important when you MUST WIN.



Your logic is twisted. undoubtedly more players means more options which in turn means that the less you perform, the more players in front of you. Now if he instead was the replacment for Iaquinta, then he would have who as competition? Youth players, the lack of squad depth there would mean they would have to play him and possibly give the youngsters a chance.



I asked if the team looked better with him on the pitch, not to compare him with Inzaghi/Gila playing together. Several games we have played with only Gila. As for my question I am talking about what he contributed to the team so far and from what I seen that is very little. He takes shots over goal all the time and is very selfish so far.



Oh, he runs with the ball alright, problem is that we doesn't pass his teammates. but I agree that he is a better fit to Gila than Inzaghi, I never said anything apart from that. I been saying he have been given plenty of chance to prove himself and have this far failed in that.



why would 4-5 games show you this? considering he have already played more than that with us? thats what I am saying, he have already had that chance, sure we can give him more chances, but now with Ronaldo here I would rather give Ronaldo the chance first. Oliveira have to take his chances when they come up again, clearly just letting him play at this time would be a gamble.

ps. Similar goal record in serie A compared to Inzaghi? If that was what you meant then you ignored every season but this one.


Why shouldnt we compare RO to Inzaghi? Who should be compare him to then, Boriello? He was not bought to play as a lone striker, he was bought to play as a second striker with a target man (Inzaghi or Gila) up front. Inzaghi has had by far more starts than RO has, and has performed more or less at the same level. So, why bench RO? Secondly, the cumulative number of minutes someone has played gives an idea of how much football he has played overall, but his actual contribution cannot be quantified. If you play football, you will know that a couple of minutes here and there as a substitute, no matter how many you get in total, is no way to establish how good a player is. The only way is to start him and play him regularly for 90 minutes. Let him get in the rhythm of the game and then we can see what he brings to the team.

I think the crux of our discussion is that you feel that we have given RO enough time to prove himself and he has failed, whereas I believe that he has not been given enough time to prove himself. Dont forget that he has come off injury and has been suffering personal problems off the pitch. The only way to get him to overcome these issues is to have confidence in him and to keep playing him, otherwise it's a vicious cycle---the coach has no confidence in him, doesnt play him, his confidence levels/match fitness drops, he gets a call as a sub, doesnt play well, the coach loses confidence, etc....Do you play football, Kris? If you do, I think you will understand this.

Lastly, I follow Milan closely, that is why i know our philosophy and that is why I am able to admit when we have double standards in our team. Carlo clearly has his "favourites" and insist on playing them even when they are off form. If you take a poll of the majority of people here, they will prefer to start Gourcuff instead of Seedorf, yet Carlo sticks with Clarence. Same thing for most of last couple of seasons---Rui Costa plays a magnificent game, and then spends the next one warming the bench. Players like Vogel, Dhorasoo did not flop at Milan, they were simply not given enough chances to prove themselves. In fact, I think both already proved themselves to be excellent acquisitions, but for some reason, the coach never picked them. I feel a similar thing is happening with RO. It seems he has not won Carlo's confidence, and the more I see Pippo starting alongside Gila, the more I wonder what Carlo is thinking. THe bottom line is this, if we insist on investing in players, we have to have enough capacity, guts, and courage to play them until we can get a proper assesment. FOr me, half a season with 700 odd minutes, most of those as a substitute, coming off a knee injury, and suffering from personal/family problems---is not enough to objectively evaluate a player and confine him to the bench for the rest of the season.

kris
07-02-2007, 07:29
Why shouldnt we compare RO to Inzaghi? Who should be compare him to then, Boriello?

We should compare him with any competition and how he helps or not helps the team. Inzaghi is a valid one, but not exactly what we talked about.

He was not bought to play as a lone striker, he was bought to play as a second striker with a target man (Inzaghi or Gila) up front.

This is highly doubtable. He was bought as a replacment to Shevchenko which was a first striker himself. The first alternative to buying him was Ronaldo which also is a first striker. But maybe most important of all, Oliveira have played as a "9" or first striker both in Brazil and in Real Betis. all this points towards him being bought for something like that and not a support striker which he never really played before he came to us.

Inzaghi has had by far more starts than RO has, and has performed more or less at the same level.

with "buy far" we could think that there is a big difference, checking the numbers you presented yourself that is not the case. They played close to as much with Inzaghi only having had some 25% more playing time and featured in two games more.

So, why bench RO?

Now you turned the question. The question would be "why play him until he performs if there are better options"? That was what you wanted. As to still answer the question, he should be benched when there is better performers around, at present point though performers in our teams is hard to find.

Secondly, the cumulative number of minutes someone has played gives an idea of how much football he has played overall, but his actual contribution cannot be quantified. If you play football, you will know that a couple of minutes here and there as a substitute, no matter how many you get in total, is no way to establish how good a player is. The only way is to start him and play him regularly for 90 minutes. Let him get in the rhythm of the game and then we can see what he brings to the team.

That is hardly the only way to establish what a player can do. In fact, I would say that a player who can only perform if he is played all the time is only half a player. We can't say "Okay, now it is test Oliveira month, lets play him every game the whole games to establish if he is a good player or not". I am pretty sure we could established what he can do by wathing him before Milan to begin with. Not to forget trainings and so on.

I think the crux of our discussion is that you feel that we have given RO enough time to prove himself and he has failed, whereas I believe that he has not been given enough time to prove himself.

I said before that indeed he can turn out to prove himself if we keep him on for the rest of the year and maybe even next year. What I am saying is that we can't make an effort to let him prove himself when we have other proven ones to play instead. There is no space for us to experiment, none who will give the team slack if it fails.

Dont forget that he has come off injury and has been suffering personal problems off the pitch. The only way to get him to overcome these issues is to have confidence in him and to keep playing him, otherwise it's a vicious cycle --- the coach has no confidence in him, doesnt play him, his confidence levels/match fitness drops, he gets a call as a sub, doesnt play well, the coach loses confidence, etc....

Milan ain't a recovery home for players. If they can't cut it then they can go on loan, keep on fighting or leave.


Do you play football, Kris? If you do, I think you will understand this.

I do not play for Milan, however much I would wish to.

Lastly, I follow Milan closely, that is why i know our philosophy and that is why I am able to admit when we have double standards in our team. Carlo clearly has his "favourites" and insist on playing them even when they are off form. If you take a poll of the majority of people here, they will prefer to start Gourcuff instead of Seedorf, yet Carlo sticks with Clarence.

True, which is not about our club having couble standards. Ever coach in the history of football have had favourites, in some cases players none of the fans wanted to see play.

Same thing for most of last couple of seasons---Rui Costa plays a magnificent game, and then spends the next one warming the bench. Players like Vogel, Dhorasoo did not flop at Milan, they were simply not given enough chances to prove themselves. In fact, I think both already proved themselves to be excellent acquisitions, but for some reason, the coach never picked them. I feel a similar thing is happening with RO.

He have been played with much more regularity than Vogel and Dhorasoo. Vogel and Dhorasoo only got to play due to injuries or in the Copa Italia. RO have been used regulary in games with different partners.

It seems he has not won Carlo's confidence, and the more I see Pippo starting alongside Gila, the more I wonder what Carlo is thinking. THe bottom line is this, if we insist on investing in players,

Inzaghi was a bigger investment than RO and he have proved more with our club. clearly by this logic he should be the one playing.

we have to have enough capacity, guts, and courage to play them until we can get a proper assesment. FOr me, half a season with 700 odd minutes, most of those as a substitute, coming off a knee injury, and suffering from personal/family problems---is not enough to objectively evaluate a player and confine him to the bench for the rest of the season.

IF he will be confined to the bench then that would be because Gilardino and Ronaldo is simply better players than him. If he is not then what is the problem?

rt9
07-02-2007, 21:45
1) Really? Shevchenko played as a "first" striker? Get your facts straight. Shevchenko has always been a second striker. In all of Ancelotti's years at Milan, Sheva has always had a strike partner/target man. In 2003, it was Inzaghi, 2004, also Inzaghi and JDT, 2005 it was Crespo, 2006 Gila/Vieri. Sheva did not play as target man. He would drop to the flanks, collect the ball, make assists, and create opportunities for the team. That was why he was so valuable and that is also why he is difficult to replace. I will reverse your own question to you: Do you watch Milan?

2) As I've said before. The number of minutes does not tell the full story. If you want a player to adapt to the team and the rhythm of the game, then you have to start him from the first minute, not bring him on in the 80th minute. Inzaghi has had more starts than RO and has not produced anything spectacular. So why not give RO more starts?

3) Exactly, if there are no forwards (probably with the exception of Gila) clearly shining and commanding a first team place, then why not take the opportunity to play the new guy more often? It's not like he's scoring own goals is he?

4) It is obvious that you lack a proper understanding of football. A player who can only perform if he's played all the time is a "half player"? What are you talking about? This is football, not AMerican football, where you can bring on special teams. A player, any player needs to play consistently to establish his rhythm and show any type of form. If you start bringing on Ronaldinho at the 80th minute of every game, he's not going to be able to do anything. But play him from the start, let him get used to the rhythm of the game, the defence, and let him get his confidence and he will start performing. I thought it was common sense to all who play football.

5) Of course Milan are not a recovery home for players. But if you buy players and dont give them a proper chance to prove themselves, then we end up losing a top player to another team. Remember Vieira, Davids, Baggio? Look at INter with Pirlo, Seedorf? These are top players, who for one reason or another were not given enough chances to prove their worth. And they go on to prove themselves as a player elsewhere. All I am asking for is for us to give our new signings a proper chance. I'd hate to see RO go to Madrid and start banging in goals after a couple of months. Does that make Milan a recovery home? I think it makes us a football club.

6) If Gila and Ronaldo are the best striking duo for Milan, then excellent. RO should accept his place on the bench. BUt that is the future, and I am not commenting about the future. I am comparing Gila/inzaghi to Gila/RO and wondering why Carlo insists on leaving RO on the bench.

7) Your arrogance is quite astounding. My initial posts make no reference to you, yet you reply with one lined smart arse comments. From the last couple of posts, I have realized that you know much less than you appear to. You can reply to me if you want, but this post will the last one that I will waste any time replying to you.

Il croato
08-02-2007, 03:27
calm down,calm down...

kris
08-02-2007, 07:54
1) Really? Shevchenko played as a "first" striker? Get your facts straight. Shevchenko has always been a second striker. In all of Ancelotti's years at Milan, Sheva has always had a strike partner/target man.

Whether you have a partner doesn't make you a second striker. That is more due to the role on the field. Strangly enough you managed to backtrack within two sentences here above. first you claim he was "always a second striker" then you mention that he was in Ancelotti's years in Milan. I can give you the whole story. In Dynamo Kiev he was a first striker with Rebrov behind him, when he came to Milan he played either as a wing-striker (besides Bierhoff) or first striker (when Bierhoff didn't play) or alternative as normal striker when we played with a playmaker (Boban). Since then he have had many partners and with differing roles, most of them more of the first striker nature, even if he tracked back a bit more last two years.

In 2003, it was Inzaghi, 2004, also Inzaghi and JDT,

He didn't play many games with Inzaghi in 2002/03. In 03/04 he had plenty of games with Inzaghi though, he didn't play support though and his partnership with Inzaghi never really worked well.

2005 it was Crespo, 2006 Gila/Vieri.

He also did not have many games with Crespo, one of them was mostly injuried.

Sheva did not play as target man.

Pretty much the only target man we had since Bierhoff is Gilardino, Inzaghi and Crespo are not target men. Nor was Rivaldo and JDT.

He would drop to the flanks, collect the ball, make assists, and create opportunities for the team. That was why he was so valuable and that is also why he is difficult to replace.

He was valuable because he was a great player.

I will reverse your own question to you: Do you watch Milan?

yes.

2) As I've said before. The number of minutes does not tell the full story. If you want a player to adapt to the team and the rhythm of the game, then you have to start him from the first minute, not bring him on in the 80th minute.

the amount of games he came on in the 80 minute is very few, not much to talk about really, you make it look like that is all he got.

Inzaghi has had more starts than RO and has not produced anything spectacular. So why not give RO more starts?

They have had about the same as said and have produced about the same too. I think I will forward this question to Ronaldo. But if you insist on having this a Inzaghi/Oliveira issue then I could mentioned that we know what Inzaghi can do since he have proved that before with us, Oliveira have not done that.

3) Exactly, if there are no forwards (probably with the exception of Gila) clearly shining and commanding a first team place, then why not take the opportunity to play the new guy more often? It's not like he's scoring own goals is he?

Its a 50/50 if there are two players with about the same contribution, I think that was what I said all the time. You been talking about 5 games 90 minute streaks which is another matter. I am pretty sure there are more than 2 players fighting for a partnership with Gila though. also I am not in favour of always playing Gila either, the one performing should play.

4) It is obvious that you lack a proper understanding of football.

I take this is tripe.

A player who can only perform if he's played all the time is a "half player"? What are you talking about?

Of course he is, a class player shouldn't need to be pampered too, played just the amount of minutes he wants and so on to perform. Of course a not ideal situation will translate to player not performing ideally all the time, but if he have to have ideal circumstances to perform then he is half a player.

This is football, not AMerican football, where you can bring on special teams. A player, any player needs to play consistently to establish his rhythm and show any type of form.

Not any player, a lot of class players can show their stuff in whatever minutes they get. some better than others. JDT played less than Oliveira and he banged in goals.

If you start bringing on Ronaldinho at the 80th minute of every game, he's not going to be able to do anything.

Highly doubtabke. If the circumstances are right he may show a lot of stuff. but again you take out this dubious "80th minute" like that is all Oliveira got. In fact the first time Oliveira got to play for us was coming on in the second half and that ended up his best performance this far...

But play him from the start, let him get used to the rhythm of the game, the defence, and let him get his confidence and he will start performing. I thought it was common sense to all who play football.

He have played several games from the start. I must now ask if you have trouble with reading comprehension, I never said that it is not better for a player to have ideal circumstances or that it is better for him personally to play whole games. I can't tell from where you got that. But I am not someone pampering for the "save Oliveira" campaign, I am for the "Want to see the best Milan" campaign. Players should play by merit for us.

5) Of course Milan are not a recovery home for players.

good to see we agree, now what are we discussing?

But if you buy players and dont give them a proper chance to prove themselves, then we end up losing a top player to another team.

or e kick them out because they where not good enough.

Remember Vieira, Davids, Baggio?

Vieira = Youth player that we made a profit on and he wanted to leave to the French colony. Nothing to do with not giving him a chance from what I saw.
Davids = He played a lot and I can't see why we could claim he didn't get a chance. most talk about him leaving seemed to be more about himbeing a douchebag.
Baggio = Played a lot the first season, then he met Capello which neither him nor me likes. He was kicked out by Capello.

[QUOTE=rt9]Look at INter with Pirlo, Seedorf?

Pirlo have been underplayed by every coach until Ancelotti. Seedorf played a majority of games from start for Inter, especially his first year.

These are top players, who for one reason or another were not given enough chances to prove their worth.

and those reasons have very little to do with Oliveira in most cases.

And they go on to prove themselves as a player elsewhere.

good for them, I prefer if players prove themselves for Milan though. Oliveira still have a chance and he better take it.

All I am asking for is for us to give our new signings a proper chance.

I more got the impression you want them (read: Oliveira) to get more chances than they deserve. Currently I believe it is up to Ronaldo whether Oliveira will get few or plenty of more chances this season. I wouldn't be unhappy if he got few, because that would mean Ronaldo/Gilardino would click.

I'd hate to see RO go to Madrid and start banging in goals after a couple of months.

Things like that suck. Of course he could as well just falter away in the world of football, something we are not few of examples of.

Does that make Milan a recovery home? I think it makes us a football club.

I can confirm we are a football club and not a recovery home.

6) If Gila and Ronaldo are the best striking duo for Milan, then excellent. RO should accept his place on the bench. BUt that is the future, and I am not commenting about the future. I am comparing Gila/inzaghi to Gila/RO and wondering why Carlo insists on leaving RO on the bench.

Have we not gone trough this, there are few minutes between them and as you said yourself Oliveira just recovered from a long injury when we got him. Inzaghi/Oliveira played and started a couple of games too...

7) Your arrogance is quite astounding. My initial posts make no reference to you, yet you reply with one lined smart arse comments. From the last couple of posts, I have realized that you know much less than you appear to. You can reply to me if you want, but this post will the last one that I will waste any time replying to you.

I recognise this, I seen it on Internet forums many times. Someone claims something, get rebutted and then runs away saying he won't post again. I am sorry if I am not as humble as you, thats life I guess.

I could just ask this simple question: "Why should Oliveira get to play several 90 minute games in a row instead of someone else?" Since you won't post again I can just go by what you said this far and I can say I don't agree he deserve that. Less so with Ronaldo here, would create a very strange precedent if he doesn't make wonder in those games...

kris
08-02-2007, 08:09
This is highly doubtable. He was bought as a replacment to Shevchenko which was a first striker himself. The first alternative to buying him was Ronaldo which also is a first striker. But maybe most important of all, Oliveira have played as a "9" or first striker both in Brazil and in Real Betis. all this points towards him being bought for something like that and not a support striker which he never really played before he came to us.


I also just discovered that you completly ignored the rest of the points here which disputed your post. Frankly you couldn't motivate your claim that Oliveira was bought as a second striker when he played his whole career as a first striker.

hitmannq8
08-02-2007, 18:49
I dont blame him for ignoring your post it is ridiculously long. Can someone delete their posts or close this topic? If you guys want to learn about each others opinions and underwear size just talk in PM. This is absolutely annoying to see posts as long as essays everytime i log on.

martin
08-02-2007, 23:30
I dont blame him for ignoring your post it is ridiculously long. Can someone delete their posts or close this topic? If you guys want to learn about each others opinions and underwear size just talk in PM. This is absolutely annoying to see posts as long as essays everytime i log on.
TRUE!! it ruined this thread.

King tiger
09-02-2007, 04:35
ntrigante ipotesi di mercato quella proposta dal quotidiano sportivo spagnolo As che prova a stilare una possibile lista di scambi che potrebbero portare a Madrid il grande sogno di Calderòn, Kakà. Secondo il giornale spagnolo, appunto, la trattativa per il trasferimento del brasiliano del Milan alla corte della casa blanca potrebbe incentrarsi essenzialmente su tre giocatori: Robinho, Diarra e Cannavaro. As sostiene nifatti che l'attaccante Robinho sia da tempo sul taccuino del club rossonero che già in estate avrebbe provato a strapparlo a Capello offrendo 25 mln di euro. Secondo nome: Cannavaro. Il campione del mondo portrebbe tornare in Italia. Si parla anche di Juve ma il centrale potrebbe andare a fortificare una difesa, quella rossonera, un po' in difficoltà in questa stagione. Infine Diarra. Il centrocampista del Mali, acquistato in estate dal Lione, è in rotta con Capello e non si è reso protagonista di una stagione strepitosa, anche se ora, con l'arrivo di Gago, sembra aver trovato il ***lio giusto. A Milano farebbe coppia a centrocampo con Gattuso.

Per concludere la trattativa poi, il Milan riceverebbe un conguaglio in denaro in modo da poter poi sferrare l'assalto decisivo al vero grande obiettivo del presidente Berlusconi: Ronaldinho

Wtf ?......................................

drucurl
09-02-2007, 05:07
Milan Want Diarra, Cannavaro, Robinho…And Money For Kaká The good news for Real Madrid fans is that there does seem to be light at the end of the tunnel in the long-lasting soap opera that Merengue President Calderón kicked off when he promised to bring Kaká to the Bernabéu. The bad news is that the price is exorbitant.
Milan Want Diarra, Cannavaro, Robinho…And Money For Kaká
zoom - galleria

Reports published in Madrid daily ‘AS’ (Ace) place Kaká in the White House as from August, basing the information on talks that Galliani and Mijatovic had during the hard-bitten Ronaldo negotiations. Galliani answered Mijatovic’s inquiry about the Brazilian 22 in simple terms.

Kaká, who’s already commented “Only God knows where I’ll be in future”, could make the switch to Madrid but at a price that some see as nothing short of ridiculous. The Rossoneri want Cannavaro, Robinho and Diarra plus a significant quantity of money that’ll nudge over into double figures with six zeros. A hefty total price of 97 million Euros at current values.

Galliani and Silvio Berlusconi are both ready to see the Brazilian go – but the end-game here is to take advantage of Ronaldinho’s first unsettled patch at Camp Nou to bring Dinho to Milanello as compensation for the exit of the idolised Kaká. ‘AS’ claim that the player’s brother and rep Roberto de Assis has already given the green light to the Rossoneri.

To placate the expected fury of the Rossoneri faithful, the idea is to present a Canarinha front line formed by a ‘Triple R’: Ronaldinho, Robinho and Ronaldo. Backing this up would be the Italian Captain who hoisted the World Cup and a Malian midfielder that Milan almost bid for but were pipped to the post by a Capello who knew of the Rossoneri intentions.

The real stumbling block revolves around Diarra, whom the White House consider a diamond in the rough that can be polished into the finest holding midfielder in the world. The idea of seeing that happen at Milan would turn Diarra into a metaphorical conflict diamond rather than the jewel in the Merengue crown that Capello expects.

Stitch
09-02-2007, 05:16
Drycurve :D this is not the joke thread...wtf is that :uhm: :uhm:

King tiger
09-02-2007, 05:18
Nei giorni della trattativa Ronaldo nè il Milan nè il Real Madrid, che sono in ottimi rapporti, hanno parlato di Kakà. E' per questo che il quotidiano spagnolo As ci strappa una lettera aperta...

Senza la necessità di ricapitolare le puntate precedenti, anche perchè sono così tante che sarebbe pressochè impossibile anche per le avveniristiche tecnologie del web, ricordiamo e precisiamo ufficialmente: che nel corso della recente trattativa per Ronaldo l'amministratore delegato del Milan Adriano Galliani non ha mai fatto alcun accennno a Kakà, che in quei giorni nè Predrag Mijatovic nè Franco Baldini hanno mai chiesto notizie di Kakà ai dirigenti del Milan, che nel corso di questa trattativa si è parlato esclusivamente di Ronaldo e Ricardo Oliveira e che infine, ma il particolare è tutt'altro che trascurabile, i rapporti fra Real Madrid e Milan sono ottimi.

E' chiaro? E' molto chiaro? E' definitivamente chiaro? As, parliamo con te. Perchè devi sapere caro As che abbiamo deciso di scriverti come se lo facessimo ad un amico. E dal momento che chi trova un amico, trova un tesoro, abbiamo una ricchezza infinita di argomenti da sottoporre amorevolmente alla tua attenzione. Ad esempio: come te lo dobbiamo scrivere che Kakà non si muove dal Milan? Nel caso in cui non fosse sufficiente l'italiano, perchè fino ad oggi è dobbiamo purtroppo ammettere che l'italiano non è stato sufficiente, abbiamo a disposizione tante possibilità di scelta. Ci sarebbe l'inglese, ma sai, con quello che è successo a maggio, i giornali italiani finirebbero poi, e giustamente, con l'ironizzare. Potremmo scegliere il francese, se credi, anche per fare un omaggio al neo presidente dell'Uefa. Ma forse è meglio di no, teniamo le istituzioni sportive fuori dalle smentite e dallle questioni di mercato. Vuoi che usiamo il portoghese con l'inconfondibile slang brasiliano così Robinho, che hai chiamato in causa in maniera forse un tantino azzardata insieme a Diarra e Cannavaro, si tranquillizza?

Per farla breve caro As qui in Italia un brillante regista fiorentino ha realizzato un film dal titolo "Ti Amo - in tutte le lingue del mondo". Porta pazienza allora e lasciaci dire: KAKA' NON SI MUOVE DAL MILAN - in tutte le lingue del mondo. La frase è obiettivamente breve e semplice, quindi la puoi declinare come vuoi. La puoi tenere come pro-memoria in tutti i giorni dell'anno, feste comandate comprese, con ampia libertà di scelta anche nell'uso del carattere: in maiuscolo, in maiuscolo-minuscolo, semplicemente in minuscolo, in cirillico, con gli ideogrammi, con i geroglifici. Fai come credi, la puoi scomporre in vari modi e con gli spazi e i corpi del carattere che preferisci. La puoi anche pronunciare, mimare, illustrare con un disegno. L'importante è che non la dimentichi. E dal momento che è già qualche riga e qualche secondo, nella stesura del testo, che non te la ripetiamo, rieccol[QUOTE]a: Kakà non si muove dal Milan. ...............................................................

zlatanov
09-02-2007, 06:01
the press is full of this story but the thing is that everyone is quoting "AS", which is basically Real M's PR department. So, before we start bashing Galliani and cursing Silvio, let's not forget that AS has been writing stories about how Kaka is going to Real since this past summer.
It's just one of Real's usual transfer strategies to first create the rumour, unsettle the athmosphere and then work on that ... it did work with Zidane and all those "galacticos" but it worked because their clubs were willing to sell.
It's been Silvio's dream to see Dinho and Kaka at Milan together, so it doesn't make much sense to sell one in order to get the other, the older one, that is.
If there is any truth in these reports, which I doubt, Galliani and others would soon drop a clue or two about it, so let's not go haywire and lose it just because of another paper-selling story AS came up with.

Stitch
09-02-2007, 06:05
Kaká, who’s already commented “Only God knows where I’ll be in future”, could make the switch to Madrid but at a price that some see as nothing short of ridiculous. .

this is the part that confuses me. when did he say that?

zlatanov
09-02-2007, 06:35
this is the part that confuses me. when did he say that?
speaking of taking words out of context, it's from here:
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/feb7h.html
however, I don't remember seeing that sipposed interview on other sources, let alone the official site.

zlatanov
09-02-2007, 06:38
actually, this is the offical site refuting all the rumours that AS created:
http://www.acmilan.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=39967

on the italian version of the site, it's much longer - what king tiger posted.

Stitch
09-02-2007, 07:02
speaking of taking words out of context, it's from here:
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/feb7h.html
however, I don't remember seeing that sipposed interview on other sources, let alone the official site.


LOL haha, now THAT'S what I call "I see things the way I want them to be".

No truth to liar's stories. I'm calm now. Thanks pops :D :p286:

zlatanov
09-02-2007, 07:07
anytime kiddo :D

Jim_UK
09-02-2007, 07:08
This is getting beyond a joke, can't we sue them or something!

As already mentioned, i can't believe we'd be willing to trade in Kaka, that's such a ludicrous thing to even contemplate. If he ever wanted to leave, then fine that's a different story, but while he's happy with us and happy in Italy, i see no substance in these stories.

No doubt should we ever get Ronaldinho, this will all happen again but with him!

drucurl
09-02-2007, 07:51
Hate to be the devil's advocate here but in the event KAKA WANTS TO LEAVE it won't be the end of the world. Say that he does go :str: and we sell him for like $50M + Canna+ Diarra+ Robinho then that would actually help us in our re-building. We need a good central mid and Diarra is young and talented and would be a gread addition to the side. With the $50 Million we could buy Diego who is almost exactly like Kaka + Diego takes free-kicks. Also we'd have an awesome support striker in Robinho. Canna at 33-34 would have two good years left in him:uhm:

Warro Bantan
09-02-2007, 09:00
Its a slow press day in Spain....AS just needed a story...and why not the old: "Kaka to Milan" one, spiced up with all of 3 Madrid players going the other way....and Ronaldinho too!

Satisfies: the Madrid fan, who cannot be impressed by most of the three "proposed" departures...the Madrid fan, who wants Kaka in Madrid...and last but not least, the Madrid fan, who wants Ronaldinho to leave Barca...for anywhere but Barca....

Hmmmm good! Tasty!

Arildonardo
09-02-2007, 09:05
A few days ago Football Italia reported that Milan was interested in swiss youngster Blerim Dzemaili. He is 20 years old and was in Switzerland's World Cup squad last year. He is captain of FC Zürich. Sounds like a great talent. His contract with FC Zürich expires at the end of the season. But now he is reported to have signed for Bolton...

Rumour:
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/feb6d.html

Fact:
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=447190&CPID=8&clid=30&lid=4161&title=Bolton+complete+double+coup

Warro Bantan
09-02-2007, 09:55
Thanks Arildonardo! Always nice to see the resolution of the rumor!

Vadim
09-02-2007, 10:04
Tribalfootball reported this:

Kaka happy at Milan
http://tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=28211

Kaka Won't Rule Out Move to Real
http://tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=28217

They use the same quote and manage to write two article about it

Anyway, even if we want to sell him I won't let them. I just bought my Kaka jersey, and there is no way that it going to rot in the back of my close like my Sheva jersey.

Tony29.
09-02-2007, 10:36
This is getting beyond a joke, can't we sue them or something!
!
You can, but in that case Barcelona can sue Milan for doing the same thing with Ronaldinho !

You must look at it that way also. What Real is doing to Milan fans with Kaka rumours, Milan is doing to Barcelona fans with constant rumours about getting Dinho !

Jim_UK
09-02-2007, 14:04
You can, but in that case Barcelona can sue Milan for doing the same thing with Ronaldinho !

You must look at it that way also. What Real is doing to Milan fans with Kaka rumours, Milan is doing to Barcelona fans with constant rumours about getting Dinho !


I will not deny the cases are similar, however if you look at our comments about Ronaldinho and Real's comments and actions over Kaka, you can see there is a difference.

nefremo
09-02-2007, 15:08
Vadim, I suggest you only by Maldini jerseys from now on! :D It is a sure bet that it will never be dusty in the back of the closet!

ACMILAN1983
09-02-2007, 15:17
You can, but in that case Barcelona can sue Milan for doing the same thing with Ronaldinho !

You must look at it that way also. What Real is doing to Milan fans with Kaka rumours, Milan is doing to Barcelona fans with constant rumours about getting Dinho !

I disagree. Milan's comments until now are of far different tone to Real's regarding Kaka. Whilst Real bullishly keep claiming they will get Kaka, he wants to go there, and they personally have talked to him about wanting to leave Milan for Real, Milan have not said much with regards to Ronaldinho coming to us, other than some denials of there being talks and were there to be an opportunity to get him, we'd love to have him. Of course, you could say that R10's agent has talked to Milan, but then again, he also happends to be the agent of Oliveira, so they will obviously be talking.

Personally though, I won't blame Real this time. It's not the clowns that run the club that seem to be shooting their mouths off about this supposed agreement, it's the Spanish Press.

Vadim
09-02-2007, 15:40
Vadim, I suggest you only by Maldini jerseys from now on! :D It is a sure bet that it will never be dusty in the back of the closet!

Already got one :proud:

BTW I agree with everything that you said, Dev. The two situations are entirely different. When has Galliani or Silvio ever said "Ronaldinho will be a Milan player" or anything remotely related to that. Never. The closest I've seen is an article on channel4 related "Ronaldinho Flattered by Berlusconi's Admiration" or something like that. How is that similar to the Kaka situation? Now we may be in talks with his agent, but at least our management is being respectful to Barca.

Warro Bantan
09-02-2007, 15:44
We can, and should never be compared to Madrid: a gentlemans club run by boys, and AC Milan, a gentlemans club run by gentlemen (who sometimes act boyishly) :D

SANT
09-02-2007, 16:05
for a moment I read between lines "A.C. Milan Gentlemen's Club" :cheers: :gonova: :gonova: :gonova: :cheers:

Warro Bantan
09-02-2007, 16:09
SANT!!! We should open one!!! What do u think...red and black theme....the costumes would be inexpensive....I like it! I like it!!

curry chicken
09-02-2007, 16:39
"A.C. Milan Gentlemen's Club"

Brilliant! Only if you allow a few Ladies into the club though....but then it wouldn't be called a gentlemen's club will it? OK fine, be that way. :guw:

As for Ricky Kaka, well. I love that boy, I do. i was happy to read the latest news about his choice to stay. BUT. I'm no fool to beleive anything that comes out of a footballer's mouth regarding transfers. He can pledge his loyalty all he wants, he can write his name in blood on the San Siro turf, while Paolo chants the Milan hymn and dances around him in a grass skirt :w200:...whatever. But that doesn't mean he won't change his mind in a few months, or that circumstances won't MAKE him change his mind... I do hope he stays for years and years, and becomes a Milan legend. But like I said, I won't beleive him until I SEE it happen. Actions speak louder than words.

mrki
09-02-2007, 17:55
If we sell KAka' for ANY amount of money, or ANY players involved, we are simply IDIOTS! We didnt make mistake, bad transfer, smart oney investment, we are officially IDIOTS. But I believe Kaka' will stay in Milan. Look at this:
Diarra - ok player, we do need him. But why dont we BUY HIM?????? ( yes I know, you actually need some money to run a club...oh,wait, our owner has 11 bilion!!! )
Robinho - trash compared to KAka'! ZERO points on him.
CANNAVARO - super CB, but will be 34 yext year....34!


So, just keep Kaka' and invest properly in new Milan. Kaka' has potential to become more of a player than Sheva was, he is already better then Ronaldinho who is 3 or 4 years older than him. Kaka' is class, a super player and a future for Milan. If Galliani and Berlusconi sell him at any price, they should all just leave from the club they "love".

drucurl
09-02-2007, 18:17
Hate to sound melodramatic and corny......but Kaka represents everything good about Milan:
He is young, good looking :sweeteye: , principled :1five: , fast :p157: , strong :w143: , skilled, charismatic, humble, intelligent and thus far has been very loyal.

Kaka came to Milan quietly as a great team player.....not as the "next Pele" like Robinho...who surely flattered to deceive or like other Real players who started off hot and sweaty and eventually fizzle out. Kaka's understated brilliance reminds me of a Zidane with speed....if and WHEN he begns to take free kicks he would be hands down better than Ronaldinho. What especially endears me to him is when he said on Milan weekly that he wants to be our Captain.....and trust me I have seen him in action as a Captain for Brazil,,,and he is phenomenal :27rr:

drucurl
09-02-2007, 18:29
So far, we are building another great team:

1) If Ronaldo takes care of his body we have IMHO the best player ever for 4 years. Ronaldo has done things Ronaldinho and Kaka can only dream of

2)By far the best defender ever in Maldini and if he decides to stay on for the next year I won't complain...his lack of pace will be compensated for with his vast experience and his ability to lift his team mates

3)Kaka the best midfielder in the world

4)Dida the best shot stopper ever....I know that Buffon is the best Keeper but Dida can save things no other keeper can

5)Gattuso is one of the best cdm in the world

6)Gorcuff one of the best talents in the game today


The rest ain't too shabby either :guw:

If we get:
ronaldinho (currently the world's best player), and a good LB...I'd say we're pretty much set :5guitar:

nefremo
10-02-2007, 02:01
Well, we do have a very very good left back. Jankulovski has been brilliant this season and is starting to look like the player he was in Udinese. I wouldn't substitute him now simply because there is no reason. The guy is performing great.

As for Kaka, I don't believe any of the rummors. Kaka will stay at Milan for years to come because Milan won't sell him. However, the day that Kaka doesn't want to stay at Milan anymore then in my eyes he is welcomed to go. We are not a desperate little miserable team that will beg its players to stay and not allow them to leave when they clearly don't want to be in Milan. Anyhow, back to Kaka.....he has never given even the slightest of clues that he is even thinking about moving from Milan. Milan likes Kaka and Kaka likes Milan. I am pretty sure that it will stay that way for years to come.

And as for the rummors, why would be want an overrated Robinho, who honestly hasn't done anything in Europe since arriving from Brazil. He was one of the most hyped players in the last few years and yet nothing has come from his tallent. Also, why would we want a 34 year old Cannavaro. As for Diarra, I think he would be a great addition but if it means losing Kaka to get Diarra then NO THANX.

ACMILAN1983
10-02-2007, 05:48
Milan apparently sent MS a letter telling them that what they wrote are lies ;)

mrki
10-02-2007, 06:24
I'll try to sort out players we should have in Milanello at the beggining of the summer and you people can add your realistic "wishes" for the summer.....

GK: Storari, Kalac.... ? GK ?
LB: Jankulovski, Serginho, Griimi ( we dont need any more )
RB: Oddo, Bonera.... maybe some young RB from primavera can be usefull.....
CD: Nesta, Kaladze, Maldini, Simic, Bonera.....
CM: Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Gourcuff, Brocchi, Ambrosini, Kaka', RONALDINHO, SNEIJDER ( plays brilliantly this season...), Di GEnnaro??
CF: Ronaldo, Gila, Pippo... sell Oli!