View Full Version : Euro 2008 (include all discussions)
It's pretty clear that most of us have deepest sympathy for Italy maybe we can start a thread about everything that concerns Italy at the EC.
this is Italy's provisional Euro 2008 squad:
GK: Buffon, Amelia, De Sanctis
defenders: Panucci, Cannavaro, Materazzi, Zambrotta, Barzagli, Chiellini, Grosso
mids: Camoranesi, Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, De Rossi, Perrotta, Aquilani, Montolivo
strikers: Toni, Di Natale, Quagliarella, Del Piero, Borriello, Cassano
one of them will be dropped before May 28th 2008 because it's provisional squad. hope Materazzi will be out otherwise he will let Italy pays for his mistakes :rollani: the squad is good and i'm really hoping that Toni will continue his good performances with Bayern at Euro 2008 with Italy. and my dream comes true when i saw Aquilani is on the called up players list. man is awesome. but apparently it's true that Pippo isn't called for Euro 2008. he had good performances with Milan after hes back from injury, so i kinda dissapointed like Pippo. this is his declaration taken from acmilan.com:
EURO 2008: THE DISAPPOINTMENT OF PIPPO INZAGHI
5/20/2008 5:58:00 PM
Filippo Inzaghi on the choices of Roberto Donadoni: "I thought I had shown loyalty and cohesion with the project and in our relationship. Instead I only earned silence. Too bad. My best wishes to my team mates!"
Here's Filippo Inzaghi's comment about not being called up for Euro 2008 by coach Roberto Donadoni: "I am disappointed especially from the human point of view. I had started this two-year period with a positive and frank relationship with the coach, also scoring in Naples against Lithuania the first goal of the qualifying campaign. But since in football goals are not all that matters, I thought I had also shown loyalty and cohesion with the project and the relationship with the coach, both in participating to away games without coming on the pitch, both in answering affermatively to a call up for the match against the Faroe Islands last summer in a qualification game that was worth three points like all the others. Then, the silence, despite my performances with Milan in every continent and my 18 goals scored between the winter through to April and May. Evidently an injury during my club season was enough not to even deserve a phone call, to cancel what I thought was an adult and mature relationship. I'm disappointed I was wrong, many sincere best wishes to the Azzurri for the Euros."
not only inzaghi got cut from the squad but also Oddo
channel four
Massimo Oddo has spoken of his disbelief at being left out of the Euro 2008 squad. “I didn’t expect it,” said the Milan man.
The full-back has been a regular in the Giro Azzurro since the appointment of Roberto Donadoni in 2006, but the latter omitted him from his 24-man preliminary party earlier this week.
“It’s an exclusion that burns me and I sincerely didn’t expect it,” noted the former Verona and Lazio man.
“Two years of my total disposal, sacrifices and acceptance of responsibility have been trampled on in the space of a few weeks.”
Donadoni seemed to defend his decision to ignore Oddo by focusing on the recent knee meniscus surgery that they player underwent, but the World Cup winner insists that was irrelevant.
“I would have reached a more than satisfying level of fitness two weeks before the tournament kicked off,” he added.
“In all honesty, the minimum I would have expected was to have my physical condition verified – if Donadoni’s consideration and faith in me hadn’t changed that is.”
Italy will travel to Euro 2008 with two right-backs in the form of Roma’s Christian Panucci and Gianluca Zambrotta of Barcelona.
To be honest this again is a good thing, they can both rest a prepare themselfs for the next season AND they most likely have the urge to prove Donadoni wrong. In Oddo's case this kick in the bum could just be what he needs.
however this also implies that 2 players aren't to fond of Donadoni who fits the profile for a coach the management wants but Milan is all about peace and quiet in the dressing room (cf cosmin contra) so this could jeopardise Dona's arrival in the near future. (Allthough I don't think carlo will leave anytime soon)
I wonder why Oddo said that... he hasnt played for about 10 matches, what was he expecting...
and yes, I am very upset that Inzaghi didnt get called-up, stupid move, cuz tbh, with the team Italy NT has, Inzaghi could be fatal both in the air, and when he gets the ball.
I wouldnt pick Oddo to play for the team of by block!! I dont understand how some people can be so subbjective. Zambrotta and Panucci can play on the right. And Zambrotta, Grosso and Chielinni on the left, there is absolutely no place for Oddo in Italia.
Pippo on the other hand simply needs to be in a serious turnament like this. Toni, Del Piero, Di natale and Inzaghi would be my choices for attack. I dont know what Donadoni is doing...
Channel four
Fiorentina star Riccardo Montolivo has confessed that he fears he will be dropped from Roberto Donadoni’s final Italy squad for Euro 2008.
Don selected 24 men in his provisional squad and must axe one ahead of Thursday’s midday deadline for submission of the final 23.
Montolivo excelled for the Viola this term, but his selection for the Azzurri’s training camp at Coverciano was by no means assured and he could be the man to miss out.
“I have to keep on training and showing a great desire to do well,” Montolivo stressed. “Then hopefully the Coach will take me to the European Championship."
There had been a chance that Roma's Simone Perrotta may be the fall guy after he sustained a calf injury in the Coppa Italia Final, but the talented midfielder has been given the all-clear.
“We will just have to see what happens. I am really happy to have been included in this great group of players and it’s a huge reward for my good season.
“I just hope that I can stay here, but I know that it will be tough and I could miss out. If I don’t get the nod then I will watch the games on TV.”
Italy begin their Euro 2008 campaign against Holland in Berne on June 9.
not only inzaghi got cut from the squad but also Oddo
Oddo is deserved to not being called for Euro 2008. look at his performances with us. so i am confusing what he is moaning for ? :rollani: but Pippo is debateable. he was on fire when hes back from his injury but Donadoni isnt called him. but i think Donadoni is right Pippo is lately became an injury prone. and Euro 2008 is hard for someone at Pippo's age who is often get some injuries. so i choose the best for Milan and Pippo and of course for Italy. even i still disagree with Donadoni if he isnt called for Pippo then why he called Cassano over Tommaso Rocchi ? yes Cassano is talented but y'all know what i am concerning about :)
one thing.. i havent checked yet who is the player being dropped before Italy goes to Euro 2008, but i think its gonna be Perotta over Montolivo or Aquilani. Perotta got an injury when he played for Roma at final Coppa Italia against Merda. even though he was the hero for Roma to won that cup. he scored 2 goal for Roma. what a cost for Perotta. poor him. he deserves to go to Austria-Swiss.
chanel four
Fiorentina midfielder Riccardo Montolivo will be the man to miss out on Euro 2008 after he was cut from Roberto Donadoni’s final list.
The 24-man provisional Azzurri squad have been training at Coverciano knowing that one would be left behind in Italy as a stand-by.
The decision had to be made by midday tomorrow, but it seems that Donadoni’s mind is made up.
Montolivo was always amongst the favourites for that unenviable role, but his chances of making the trip were given a boost when Roma midfielder Simone Perrotta picked up a calf injury in the Coppa Italia Final.
However, Perrotta is now 100 per cent fit and the wealth of midfield options has convinced Don that Montolivo is surplus to requirements.
While the 23-year-old will be severely disappointed at missing the cut, he looks likely to be given a place in Pierluigi Casiraghi’s squad for the Olympics by way of consolation.
In the event of an injury in the Azzurri ranks, Montolivo will be flown in to fill the gap.
This friday a friendly game takes place between the worldchampions in order to prepare themselfs for the upcoming EC and Belgium.
Both teams will wear a black arm ribbon to honer striker Francois Sterchele the 26 year old red devil (name for the Belgian national players) that died in a car crash recently. He was partly Italian and proud to be Rossoneri. He liked Luca Toni very much and copyed his gesture whenever he scored. The goalgetter who played for Club Brugge was really looking forward to the confrontation Italy and Luca Toni in particular. Daniel Van Buyten Toni's teammate with Bayeren arranged a meeting between the two but destiny decided otherwise I guess. Toni allready offred his shirt to Sterchelle's family.
Peachtot
28-05-2008, 08:33
so sad for montolivo. however as personal, i'll choose him over aquilani to play in austria&switzerland
Giovanni
28-05-2008, 14:43
Let the PO PO POOOOOOOOOOOOO start again.
Can't wait for it.
We'll just choke it or win it. We have no mild endings.
poor Montolivo. i read once about his fear being dropped from Euro 2008 squad. and it became true. sadly but he's young as long as he keeps performing well World Cup 2010 isn't impossible. and i am glad Perotta or Aquilani isn't the one being dropped from the squad.
Giovanni
29-05-2008, 11:15
Aquilani gives long range shoots options which may be crucial to solve too close games.
Friendly game Italy-Belgium kick of today, 20.50u
Referee: Atkinson (Eng)
Franchi-stadion in Firenze
propable line ups:
Italy: Buffon, Zambrotta, Materazzi,
Cannavaro, Panucci, Gattuso, Pirlo, Di
Natale, Ambrosini, Camoranesi, Toni
Belgium: Stijnen, Pocognoli, Vertonghen,
Kompany, Hoefkens, Simons, Mudingayi,
Fellaini, Witsel, Defour, Dembele
bench: Renard, De Man, Gillet, Huyse-
gems, Mirallas, Sonck, Swerts, Mulemo,
De Roover
May I add Belgium has a very young team and lots of scouts will be in Florence to monitor them. There will be a moment to honor the death of Francois Sterchele, of who Bram and I allready reported. 2 other players have Italian blood aswell young LB Pocognoli (he declared to be Rossoneri in todays newspaper) and Goalie Stijnen are partly Italian.
Italy won the match against Belgium 3-1 and Di Natale scored 2 goals. one again is came from Camoranesi. the opening goal was coming from Di Natale who right-footed the ball past Stijnen on a cross by Pirlo from the right wing. second was also came from Di Natale when he put the ball in to the net after received the ball from Aquilani (i knew it :proud: this person will do many things for Italy, i always like him. i wish he plays for Milan). and the goal from Camoranesi just compeleted the day for Italy when he received a nice pass from Del Piero and make the powerful low shot to beat Stijnen. the only consolation goal for Belgium was came in injury time and the person who did it was Sonck. he headed in a corner.
the highlight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dC2fFhyRoo
A boring match ... Belgium is far to be the team they were some years ago, that's sad for them (where are the "red devils" ?! Nowadays ... only in Manchester).
I'm afraid about something with that team: if Toni gets an injury, who will replace him ?
Borriello: far to be at Toni's level
Del Piero: not the same characteristics
Cassano: like Del Piero
The only one who could have been a very good replacement (and a joker for the last 15 minutes of each important match) was Inzaghi ...
I'm also not very confident about the defense ... only time will say if I have reasons to be afraid or if it's like before each competition (each time, I'm afraid about something lol, this year it's about Toni/defense + Donadoni, I've never had faith in him).
A boring match ... Belgium is far to be the team they were some years ago, that's sad for them (where are the "red devils" ?! Nowadays ... only in Manchester).
you are absolutely right. Our national coach really sucks he is supposed to be a strong tactical coach but he never adchieved anything with a club and he has lost far more games than he won with the Belgian National team.
He started yesterdays game with 3 central defenders (one on the right back position, although in some games of the qualifying round he even started with 4 central defenders ), the midfield yeasterday was packed with 3 defensive midfielders and that how he likes to play wether is against the world champion but he also plays like that against smaller soccer country's like Kazachstan.
I did't expected a win or something but our coach said he learned a lot by this game, that's probably true in this case but it has been his press statement after every single game. It's just simple loser talk...
On the other hand only one Belgium player yesterday was older than 30 while 7 were under 23.
Anyway I think it was a good general repetion for the Azzurri they are more than ready I guess. If Toni get's injured they will have a problem but on the other hand, Borriello could only gain from that experience so as milan fans we should hope tat Toni gets injured but as Azzurri fans we should pray that's he stays healthy ;)
no, I think our defence only fell apart in the 2nd half, when Cannavaro was subbed, and Barzagli left alone in the back...
Sonck managed to make some damage in the second half aswell...
I think if Toni gets injured(which is unlikely because he is a huge...to be continued)Del Piero will be a good replacement for him...
Remember, Toni wasnt a starter in Lippi's formation, Del Piero and Gila were ;)
Remember, Toni wasnt a starter in Lippi's formation, Del Piero and Gila were ;)
I hope Borriello will be the next toni then ;):D
you are absolutely right. Our national coach really sucks he is supposed to be a strong tactical coach but he never adchieved anything with a club and he has lost far more games than he won with the Belgian National team.
He started yesterdays game with 3 central defenders (one on the right back position, although in some games of the qualifying round he even started with 4 central defenders ), the midfield yeasterday was packed with 3 defensive midfielders and that how he likes to play wether is against the world champion but he also plays like that against smaller soccer country's like Kazachstan.
I did't expected a win or something but our coach said he learned a lot by this game, that's probably true in this case but it has been his press statement after every single game. It's just simple loser talk...
I still remember Belgium from the mid/end 90's ... it was a great team, in World Cup 98, if my memory goes well lol, they lost against Brazil or something like that whereas they were at the same level and could have pass this round.
I unfortunately don't remember their players' name but there was 2-3 "stars" + Mpenzas ...
Belgium of the mid 80s were better, they were and are my second fave NT, always try to follow them but its not easy from where I am.
I was born in the mid 80's so I don't know their team from that period !! lol
I can only speak about what I know, this Belgian team with ... I looked for their names ... Scifo, Wilmots, Nilis, etc ...
I am too old :D
Scifo was there, Gerets, Ceulemans, Claesen, Preud'homme...
But for sure for Euro 2008...Forza Azzurri
A boring match ...
well.. at least Donadoni was be able to tried formations that he wanted. that's make this game wasnt boring well..at least for me :tong: he used 4-3-3 formation at 1st half with Di Natale at the left wing and Camoranesi at the right wing and together they were beside Luca Toni as tridente striker. and surpraisingly he put Aquilani over Ambrosini to played together with Pirlo and Gattuso. and Aquilani paid Donadoni's trust with his contribution to Di Natale's goal. and he was good at that game. another surpraise came from the defender squad (which was made me very happy) when Donadoni played Barzagli (not Materazzi) as centre back together with Cannavaro and when 2nd half started Donadoni played with 4-3-1-2 formation by playing Del Piero together with Luca Toni as target man and Cassano as 2nd striker. Donadoni changed 6 players in 2nd half for playing that formation. and the other interesting one is the way Donadoni played Del Piero position. in World Cup 2006 (which mean Lippi's era as a coach for Italy) Del Piero was playing in the left wing for 4-3-3 formation as tridente striker. but i remember Del Piero was complained about his position that time. so Donadoni put him as a pure striker in this game to see how it works. and apparently he played well in that position. and Cassano did well too. so we should stop "cry me a river" because Pippo wont be the part of Euro 2008 squad :D
I still remember Belgium from the mid/end 90's ... it was a great team, in World Cup 98, if my memory goes well lol, they lost against Brazil or something like that whereas they were at the same level and could have pass this round.
I unfortunately don't remember their players' name but there was 2-3 "stars" + Mpenzas ...
Actually it was in Japan and Korea 2002 we played very wel against brazil and we should have gone into half time with a clean 1-0 but the referee (maybe some Warro knows him Peter Prendergast) falsely disallowed it. After the tournament the brazilian national coach, I think it was scolari (but I could be wrong), said that that game was the only game brazil really had to fight to win and that game could have gone either way. Don't forget adhead of that tournament we won against the French worldchampions and we won.
France 1998 wasn't a good tournament for us we didn't lose a single match but we coudn't win any aswell. There were to much trouble inside the team and we didn't get acustomed to the heat. WK 1994 shoudl have gone completly diffrent for us aswel in the quarter final we encountered Germany and the referee again had a big part in the final score. The Germans got away with anything (allowing Voller to score after a clear fault )and we should have gotten a clear penalty with a red card for Helmer but nothing happend and we lost it. 3-2
Belgium of the mid 80s were better, they were and are my second fave NT, always try to follow them but its not easy from where I am.
If you have any questions do ask, allthough lately its everytime bad news let's hope the young guns deliver rather soon than late.
I was born in the mid 80's so I don't know their team from that period !! lol
I can only speak about what I know, this Belgian team with ... I looked for their names ... Scifo, Wilmots, Nilis, etc ...
Most of them had what it takes the will to win we haddn't got many technical players but we had a good mix of hardworking players who scored goals with their thighs, buts or chests and gifted players who could distribute great crosses. The young players we have now are suppost to be very talented but I do miss a hard breakers some rough players like we used to have plenty (a bit like Rino)
I am too old :D
Scifo was there, Gerets, Ceulemans, Claesen, Preud'homme...
No you are not to old, but you are right the young Scifo was great (when he got older he only slowed down the game way to much and thaught he was bigger than the team, he actually played to long) Gerets, Ceulemans, Claesen, Preud'homme, Pfaff and so on were simply world class. They had the right spirit, the will to win what we now lack to much. For you who saw the game Sonck was our best player imho he showed that same spirit and he is well know for it.
Anyway back on topic
Forza Italia Forza Azzurri ;)
well.. at least Donadoni was be able to tried formations that he wanted. that's make this game wasnt boring well..at least for me :tong: he used 4-3-3 formation at 1st half with Di Natale at the left wing and Camoranesi at the right wing and together they were beside Luca Toni as tridente striker. and surpraisingly he put Aquilani over Ambrosini to played together with Pirlo and Gattuso. and Aquilani paid Donadoni's trust with his contribution to Di Natale's goal. and he was good at that game. another surpraise came from the defender squad (which was made me very happy) when Donadoni played Barzagli (not Materazzi) as centre back together with Cannavaro and when 2nd half started Donadoni played with 4-3-1-2 formation by playing Del Piero together with Luca Toni as target man and Cassano as 2nd striker. Donadoni changed 6 players in 2nd half for playing that formation. and the other interesting one is the way Donadoni played Del Piero position. in World Cup 2006 (which mean Lippi's era as a coach for Italy) Del Piero was playing in the left wing for 4-3-3 formation as tridente striker. but i remember Del Piero was complained about his position that time. so Donadoni put him as a pure striker in this game to see how it works. and apparently he played well in that position. and Cassano did well too. so we should stop "cry me a river" because Pippo wont be the part of Euro 2008 squad :D
It's clearly why I think it was boring lol !!
I don't watch matches to see the coach trying things, I watch football for entertainment ... Anyway I knew it would be boring like almost all Italy friendly matches (and almost all friendly matches actually).
UEFA has killed my dream of Italy-France final revenge ... not the one from World Cup 2006 but the one from Euro 2000 !!
A serious blow for the azzurri Canna out Gamberini in
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun2r.html
"Nesta comes out of International retirement to help Italy in the euros"
thats tomorrow's headlines, mark my words :D
anyway, anyone thinks Bonera might have a chance getting called up?
NOoooooo! First Flamini, then Bonera. I don' want any Milan players to play and expend their energy duing euro2008!
kastriot
02-06-2008, 18:11
NOoooooo! First Flamini, then Bonera. I don' want any Milan players to play and expend their energy duing euro2008!
As much as I hate the fact that they might come back exhausted from euro, the experience in playing such a major tournament is priceless, and at least we know how important experience is!!!!
Fla and Bonera are talented players who need to make the transition from young talented player to firm established players,IMO Euro will do good to them
That's good point ;). Just hope that if they really go for Euro2008, thye won't come back injured.
UEFA has killed my dream of Italy-France final revenge ... not the one from World Cup 2006 but the one from Euro 2000 !!
i assume you also supported Italy too for Euro 2000 since you said that final left your heart broken. even it's pretty weird that you come from France but was hoping for Italy as a winner? :D well.. yeah Trezeguet's golden goal left my heart broken into pieces too. thanks God above that we dont use that system again. and about Trezeguet the heartbreaker, you can always look at the bright side, Trezeguet was the only one who failed from France players side at PK shoot out in WC 2006. so still.. revenge is sweet :tong:
NOoooooo! First Flamini, then Bonera. I don' want any Milan players to play and expend their energy duing euro2008!
it's still not so sure about Flamini. he is called up for Euro 2008 as 24th player because Viera isn't fit right now. but once that Viera back to fit again then Flamini will be sent home. but it is a big blow for Italy since Cannavaro is the commander and the most trustable CB that Italy has. and now Gamberini being called up. get my nerves very high since he never played in big tournament like Euro 2008 except for those friendlies last year. but well everything maybe happens in football. including unexpected collision between Chiellini and Cannavaro during the training :rollani:
any news on who's replacing Cannavaro? :o
any news on who's replacing Cannavaro? :o
as a captain or as a CB ? :tong:
as a captain or as a CB ? :tong:
as a CB, the captain will be Buffon ;)
as a CB, the captain will be Buffon ;)
Gamberini from Fiorentina is called up after Cannavaro got injured.
silly me i forgot that Buffon could be the captain in Donadoni's era. Gamberini from Fiorentina is called up after Cannavaro got injured.
why not bonera :(
that Donadoni is an idiot... :P
anyway, how good is Gamberini(I know that he wont be in the starting 11 tho :D)
why not bonera :(
that Donadoni is an idiot... :P
anyway, how good is Gamberini(I know that he wont be in the starting 11 tho :D)
yes Bonera would be awesome. but like Jeff said that would cost many Milan players in risk to get injured. but i also imagine if Nesta comes to the rescue and saves Azzurri now after decided to retired :D high quality CB from Italy beside Cannavaro who else except Nesta :tong:
Graeme C
03-06-2008, 06:56
yes Bonera would be awesome. but like Jeff said that would cost many Milan players in risk to get injured. but i also imagine if Nesta comes to the rescue and saves Azzurri now after decided to retired :D high quality CB from Italy beside Cannavaro who else except Nesta :tong:
yeah i was hoping that too, Nesta could come to rescue and say he would like to be called up.
The best for Italy would have been Nesta who comes back (like he's better than Cannavaro, Italy would have still been better) but let's remember World Cup 2006 !! lol
It is a very bad news ... thanks Chiellini !! lol
So the defense will be composed of Materazzi-Barzagli ?? Why fear comes to me ?? lol
And for Flamini, there's 90% chances he goes to Euro as Viera seems to be out at least for the first match, it would be weird to take him as each time he was injuried these last 2 seasons, he got an injury again after 1-2 matches ... but Flamini wouldn't get any spot in that team during Euro, knowing Domenech, he would just take Flamini as a sub and would put Diarra as a DM.
i assume you also supported Italy too for Euro 2000 since you said that final left your heart broken. even it's pretty weird that you come from France but was hoping for Italy as a winner? :D well.. yeah Trezeguet's golden goal left my heart broken into pieces too. thanks God above that we dont use that system again. and about Trezeguet the heartbreaker, you can always look at the bright side, Trezeguet was the only one who failed from France players side at PK shoot out in WC 2006. so still.. revenge is sweet :tong:
Yeah I have supported Italy for the last 10 years now (actually, by thinking about that, I never really supported France, I started watching football without supporting anyone when it was Euro 1996, I was admiring Germany but without supporting, and for WC98, it was just written that it would be the only and last WC won by France lol).
It's something that actually can't be explained lol !! But I tried to explain it on another topic, can't remember which one anyway !! Actually, there are pretty much reasons !! lol
(my Italian origins have taken advantage on my current nationality since '98, could be said like that lol ...)
PS: Can be explained too by the fact I hate patriotism what is one of the reasons why people support their country, it's pretty stupid, if you like a team because this team plays well (I think Italy has some of the best players in world, especially the Milan ones lol), just support that team, even if it's not your country or a club in your country ?! People always ask me here where I live why I support Milan instead of supporting Lens or Lille or Valenciennes (all in Ligue 1 and less than 70 kilometers from my home), I generally answer something like 'I love football" lol.
People always ask me here where I live why I support Milan instead of supporting Lens or Lille or Valenciennes (all in Ligue 1 and less than 70 kilometers from my home), I generally answer something like 'I love football" lol.
I've never had that question allthough I also live within the 70 km range ;)
I've never had that question allthough I also live within the 70 km range ;)
It seems different in Belgium so !! Even if I'm only at 15-20 minutes from Belgium !! lol
Yeah I have supported Italy for the last 10 years now (actually, by thinking about that, I never really supported France, I started watching football without supporting anyone when it was Euro 1996, I was admiring Germany but without supporting, and for WC98, it was just written that it would be the only and last WC won by France lol).
...
People always ask me here where I live why I support Milan instead of supporting Lens or Lille or Valenciennes (all in Ligue 1 and less than 70 kilometers from my home), I generally answer something like 'I love football" lol.
well it is understandable if you support Milan over Lens, Lille or Valenciennes (no offense but we can always check Milan's cabinet for the trophies but of course i still love Milan even if their cabinet is empty, can i ? or can you ? :D) well, but France in the year between 1998-2000 is the biggest power in football. name it.. WC 1998 (checked), Euro 2000 (checked), Ballon d'or went to French Player namely Zidane (checked), FIFA World Player of the The Year also went to French Player and also namely Zidane :D during the years 1998 and 2000 even at 2003 for Zidane (checked), and also France lead the rank in FIFA's table that time over Brazil, Italy, England, Argentina (checked). lol.. that's why i am confusing about your heart choice at that time :tong: not like me who doesnt have a national team to be proud of. latest news from them we were beaten 5-1 against Bayern Muenchen in friendly game to honour Oliver Kahn who retired. and at that time Muenchen wasn't brought the likes of Toni, Lahm, Ribery, Bastian, Klose, Podolski, and Sagnol. can you imagine how ****ty my national team is ? :rollani: that's why i choose Italy to be cheering for. because they have many Milan players there :D feels like watching Milan but somehow get shocking mode when i see Materazzi (always like this WTH hes doing there? get lost :mad: ) because the likes of Buffon, Cannavaro, Aquilani, Barzagli, etc are those players who i would like them to join with Milan. but since it seems like impossible so watching them playing together with Pirlo, Max, Ambro, Gila (used to), Oddo (used to), Bonera (used to), Pippo (used to), Paolo (OMG), Bonera (used to) get my fantasy so wild about my Milan :D
why not bonera :(
i just realised that Donadoni called 4 Milan players (well.. actually 6 players but 2 of them werent called up as Milan players) so too many Milan's if he called up Bonera. and Gamberini isnt bad either (even as Milanista for me Bonera looks more good than him :tong: ) he has been good and solid last season. if you check again he is a CB who got many high ranks based on his playing role as a CB last season in serie A. actually good choice by Donadoni :)
Cassano allready causes tension. http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun4b.html
Not a good way to prepare for the EC.
Selecting him was a gamble from Dona but I have to admit it Dona has the nerve to take avoid the easy answer and leave Cassano home. The picked Cassano but it could blow up in his face if Italy doesn't win the EC. I think people will blame Dona coz he chose to pick that loose canon and the EC haven't even started yet and problems have only begun let's hope the situation cools of but with Cassano you never know.
Cassano is a little tosser
any news on who's replacing Cannavaro? :o
If Cannavaro is out then it should have been Paolo Maldini as his replacement. Thats just embaracing
If Cannavaro is out then it should have been Paolo Maldini as his replacement. Thats just embaracing
What on earth do you mean? Maldini refuses to play for the Azzurri as does Nesta so both of them won't be called up. As much as I like the Azzurri I think both made the right decision by focussing on Milan coz they are to injury prone.
Panucci seems to be injuried ... will he be replaced ? By who ? Bonera this time ?
I hope it will be Bonera, but is he(Panucci) ruled out of the EURO08 ??
I hope it will be Bonera, but is he(Panucci) ruled out of the EURO08 ??
Panucci isn't out
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun7h.html
Switzerland vs Czech Republic
Janku- Having a solid game for the Czech side. Solid defending and a couple of decent crosses. Notably, hes taking all the free kicks and corners.
As im typing, GOAL ! VASCLAV SVERKOS!
1-0 , 71' SVERKOS
EDIT: Full Time 1-0 Czechs.
Young Keeper on the Swiss side. Benaglio, worth keeping an eye on being so young and playing for his nation.
In my opinion Janku was anything but solid, not necessarily bad but not good either :dontkn:
Well, defensively, he did not have much work on his side. They were attacking the RB of the Czechs Grygera. When they did come, he was "solid" as can be slide tackling and heading balls away and no errant clearances from the box. A big part of a defenders game is what he does with the ball in dangerous situations. He made no bad plays.
Offensively, he took all the set pieces and deliver maybe 2 good ones and 1 good corner in the 2nd half. OVerall, no goals for the Swiss(janku part of the defense) and he took the set piece that resulted in a back n forth volley which ended up on the foot of the striker that scored the goal.
Boring opening match
Czechs look like a solid team
I liked Janku(not bad), Grygera and Ujfalusi
Suisse and Austria are posibly the worst team on this tournament
Ya I don't think he is very strong defensively, though he tried in offense.
well, rezag, I agree with you... but considering he didnt play for while(about one season), I'd say he did good :5ok:
kastriot
07-06-2008, 14:15
Behrami had a great game IMO....his one to look for the future.
Probably the main lesson here is that 4-5-1 is a very bad idea, pinning hopes that crosses make their way to a tall target (Koller) squeezed by two CBs (Muller and Senderos) is dangerous. By the end of the 1st half Koller had to track back and try to do something himself.
Portugal played well but I have to say that Turkey defence was on strike tonight
None of Portugal or Turkey players were impressive tonight
Deco-I hope Inter will buy him
Moutinho – he is a decent player for his age
Cristiano – sometimes I think that manchester bought him from circus
he moves like an acrobat
Bosingwa-he worth every euro from those 20mil that chelsea payed for him
Pepe-the surprise of the night
On the Turkish side Kazim was pretty good technically
1-0 Croatia at HT.
No Simic in the lineup.
I just started watching from around the 35th minute...and the game looks sloppy. Everything is crowded and no real ball possession.
#20 Martin Harnik of Austria, playing the RW/RM position. Playing real well for a desperate Austrian team in the second half.
Club: Bremen.
Good young player
Umit Korkmaz 22 years old playing on the left side looked good as well
Germany vs Poland after 10 minutes.
Mario Gomez...Im on the bandwagon for us to bring him to Milan. He is A MAN. A very big man, that target man we need. And he has exceptional speed and acceleration for a man his size.
ABSOLUTE GORGEOUS PASS FROM GOMEZ TO KLOSE! KLOSE OVER TO PODOLSKI FOR THE FINISH.
1-0 GERMANY 20' PODOLSKI
26 goals for his national team as a 23 yr old...damn Lukas.
Senahid1
08-06-2008, 19:22
Boruc(Poland)
Kazim(Turkey)..... two best player, for now
Janku missed the chance in the game vs Switzerland. his free kick wasnt gave the difficult thing to Benaglio. and what a blow by Switzerland to losing their captain Frei in the early of this competition. he is suffering knee ligament injury.
Pressure is raising
Euro 2008 actually starts now
This is probably the most difficult group in european tournaments ever
Tonight it’s the first final
La scuola sacchiana rapresentata da due campioni
Ex ala sinistra and ex ‘killer’
Ambro will start instead of De Rossi
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun9q.html
Damn…
What the **** happened
I hope it won’t be any more surprises especially forward
Romania – France 0-0
It looked like a friendly match
I expected more from benze or nasri
ACMILAN1983
09-06-2008, 14:17
Gomez as one of our targets impressed last night, he was strong, very useful in the build up play (including both goals) and had fantastic positioning. All that was really lacking was the finishing, with the first open goal (not his fault, it was a poor pass from Klose) and then the shot near the edge of the box he scuffed. However, a very positive performance.
Benzema just finished playing for France and was one of the very few positives for France. He wasn't particularly good, and struggled when surrounded, but France overall were awful which clearly affected his game.
This France-Romania game was so bad someone should start an inquest lol
Gomez looks like borriello but less mobility
It’s not so difficult to make a good impression when you play against Poland
IF Milan will buy him they will take the same risks like they did with Oliveira
I agree on Romania-France match
Romania played to draw, France didn't have the desire to win.
Romania just doesnt have the midfield to create. Chivu played well for them, but they had no creativity in the midfield.
Italy vs Nederlands
Early on, Zambrotta looks really slow. I hope he picks up pace...
Gattuso, fouling like crazy, bad pass early for a turnover.
Pirlo and Ambro are playing well passing and going forward.
25 minutes complete 0-0
o m g...26' Van NistelRooy
CLEARLY OFFSIDES!!!!!
BS ! 1-0 NEDERLANDS
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:14
Yep. That was off-side. I don't have much faith in this tournament. I'm really looking forward to Milan's next season. And I think Italy should focus on the next world cup.
2-0 Nederlands 31' Sneijder
Counterattack DiNatale a forward cover up from the corner kick didnt mark Sneijder...wow
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:20
Wow, I'm done hearing about this. Donadoni should be sacked for that line up he put out there... Materazzi?
Andy Gray makes a good point...the all AC Milan midfield had poor seasons and are being dominated in this game.
Also watching the replay, Buffon had no business leaving the net. If he stays put, he makes an easy save.
MATERAZZI IS PURE RUBBISH.
And Ambro and Gattuso are running likechickens with their head cut off. For defensive midfielders, they arent playing defense.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:27
Well... so much for that... one of those goals was off-side nonetheless.
The line-up just wasn't any good from what I'm hearing. Why is Materazzi out there? Why isn't De Rossi out there? Why isn't Chiellini out there? These players might be from rival teams but they are in better form. Even Ancelotti said that De Rossi should play... not Ambrosini.
WHERE IS THE ITALIAN DEFENSE!!!
Matrix should be taken off!
PS: the 1st goal was offside, no? :wallbang:
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:37
Well guys, I never pay any attention to this cup... I know... I should. But I think smaller countries should win it sometimes... I really did like seeing Greece win it... even though Greece has never qualified for a world cup. I think Lippi will probably come back after this game... if Italy doesn't stage a miracle comeback. Of course he could come back after the tournament.
Edit: Actually I'm wrong. Greece did qualify for the WOrld Cup in 94.
Materazzi should be taken off !
But Gattuso not getting back and covering Sneijder as well as Di natale...thats just lazy lazy play.
Ambro just as bad. These 2 are in our starting lineup next year for the Red n Black?
I am surprised how Netherland played in the first half. Really superb! They played ball carefully and patiently waiting for free space for the forward players. They defended very solid with 2-3 players chased the ball every time they lost it. What impressed me how good their teamwork was. It's clear to see that no player was more important than the other in the first half. The second goal was really great with very good teamwork from the Holland.
They also owned the midifield area and I still wonder how they did it so well in the midfield.
Netherland deserved to win the first half!
t.gianni
09-06-2008, 15:38
I think they also need a center forward or a attacking midfielder. There is very little connection between the midfield and attack. Donadoni please bring on Del Piero.
Giancarlo: There is no other DC better, and it's not Materazzi fault.
First goal is clear offside. The only argument can be made is that the injured player makes VPN onside, but judging form that Panucci didn't even have the chance to come back. I think this is a very very bad decision by the ref.
Which made Italy feel pretty miserable for the rest of the half.
Second goal is awful DC defense: both DC have to take the blame.
****
Andy Gray is right about our midfield? I think he is wrong again completely. Gattuso and Ambrosini are arguably the best two players on the field, with Ambrosini well desrving the captain armband. Ambrosini is playing the best on the field so far.
Pirlo disappears so far but that's simply because someone always stick to him.
****
Nevertheland can count themselves very lucky in the first half.
Can someone explain me why the first goal was not offside? I heard it from commentator that it's new rule but I couldnt understand what he said about this new rule (I didnt hear so clearly). Can someone explain the new rule to me? Tony29?
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:41
I must say... maybe there is a reason we haven't won this tournament since 1968 was it... do we take it seriously?
And f *k, that first goal was off-side. This is like 2002 World Cup repeat.
Can someone explain me why the first goal was not offside? I heard it from commentator that it's new rule but I couldnt understand what he said about this new rule (I didnt hear so clearly). Can someone explain the new rule to me? Tony29?
You can aruge that Panucci is still considered an active player (because ref didn't stop the game admitting he is injured) and so his position leaves VDN onside.
Now if there is a new rule? That's a stupid new rule esp. Panucci is obviously out injured at the moment and won't be able to come back by himself.
If it's not a new rule: Then the ref has made the worst possible mistake ever in the world.
Ah, I just saw the reply, Panucci was behind the goal line cause of knock with Buffon.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:45
Oh well. Guys, best to look forward to Milan's new season and the 2010 world cup.
I really hope Italy stages a comeback... and I hope Donadoni switches the line up through substitutions. Materazzi off, Ambrosini off. Why is Del Piero not out there? Sheesh. And Inzaghi should have been called for this.
Edit :
I already understand. Sorry for the edit.
Jeff...Gattuso and Ambro the best players on the field? Please get serious! Ambrosini was fine but Gattuso should be taken out for De Rossi ASAP! That CD partnership should be thrown in the dust bin btw. wtf are they doing? Simple balls seem so dangerous they're defending like 12 year olds!
Jeff, how can you say our midfield is our best players on the field for Italy? THE DM job is cut down the counter attack. Well Rino instead of retreating challenges the ball and it gets crossed to the left. MISTAKE #1
The ball is then crossed to the right, you see the highlight Gattuso HAS TO GET HIMSELF TO SNIEJDER ! Also in the highlight you see Ambrosini stop running allowing another Netherlands player to get in position for a chance at a rebound.
That play alone cost them a goal. One horrible disgusting bad play erases all the good they've done and they havent done much good in the first half.
Materazzi was beat on the chance for Van NistelRooy EASILY, thank god Buffon made the save or else it would be lights out.
Camaronesi had a good half, Pirlo early on, Toni has had some good touches. Zambrotta is getting the opportunities down the left flank, but is too slow and not offering good services.
One theme of the match n tournament is how old Italy's lineup is. NOT GOOD.
Oh well. Guys, best to look forward to Milan's new season and the 2010 world cup.
I really hope Italy stages a comeback... and I hope Donadoni switches the line up through substitutions. Materazzi off, Ambrosini off. Why is Del Piero not out there? Sheesh. And Inzaghi should have been called for this.
Ambrfo off? you watching the same game with me?
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:48
Jeff...Gattuso and Ambro the best players on the field? Please get serious! Ambrosini was fine but Gattuso should be taken out for De Rossi ASAP!
Yes or vice versa... I'm starting to think it was better we got Flamini now... sheesh...
Jeff...Gattuso and Ambro the best players on the field? Please get serious! Ambrosini was fine but Gattuso should be taken out for De Rossi ASAP!
I agree, maybe not Gattuso.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:50
Well I still think De Rossi should have been out on the field. Hell even Ancelotti said that just a day ago... De Rossi should always start... whether it be with Gattuso or Ambrosini... I don't know.
Gattuso is playing well so far for the second half. Grosso on Materazzi off.
WHERE IS THE ITALIAN DEFENSE!!!
Matrix should be taken off!
PS: the 1st goal was offside, no? :wallbang:
The Italy defence isn't playing. Canna, Nesta, Maldini ;)
The first goal was clearly offside. No new rules about that if a player get's out of the lines during a previous action (not intented) the player isn't considered as an active player. Hence RVN was clearly offside.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 15:58
Gattuso is playing well so far for the second half. Grosso on Materazzi off.
Thank god for that second part... Materazzi should be dropped from the national team and this is the fact of the last few months of bad performances by him... why oh why... I wish Nesta would come back to international play... :(
Edit: if Matrix is dropped... Inter would have NO representation on the national level... I just realized that. lol.
Del Piero on Di Natale off. I thought Di Natale was good and maybe Camoranesi should have been taken off.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:10
Del Piero on Di Natale off. I thought Di Natale was good and maybe Camoranesi should have been taken off.
Agreed. I want to ask Donadoni one thing... why this line-up?
Toni spoils a wonderful pass from Cassano. The seals it for the dutch.
Game set match...3-0 Holland. That starting lineup needs some real tweaking. First off Materazzi out. Secondly De Rossi MUST play. Thirdly Camo out and either Cassano or Del Piero in.
Next match for me: Buffon; Zambrotta, Barzagli, Panucci, Grosso; Ambrosini, Pirlo, De Rossi; Del Piero, Di Natale; Toni
That first goal is lethal. The ref has to take the total blame.
actually, there IS that rule you are talking about, Koeke :(
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:31
That first goal is lethal. The ref has to take the total blame.
Yeah it can cause a total misbalance in the team. Not to reduce any of them blame here... the players clearly were not up to task.
Are our chances blown to go to the next round?
No if you win Crotia and France. Very difficult now but who knows.
Gosh... the first goal is just... OMG...
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:33
No if you win Crotia and France. Very difficult now but who knows.
Gosh... the first goal is just... OMG...
Eh. Well anyways... I guess I'll talk about any upcoming transfers then. Croatia... don't you mean Romania? France... um... I don't think so. If we play as bad as we did today, won't be happening.
A deserved win for Netherland. I am impressed with MVB's team played. Credit to Basten!
A deserved win for Netherland. I am impressed with MVB's team played. Credit to Basten!
Most definitely, but Italy's game plan was uncompletely undone by the first goal. It wasn't like a bad defending or anything like that that leads to the goal.
It's bad refereeing. And the psychological damage is absolutely overwhelming. Italy was lost, completely lost. That's not their game plan for the whole game.
But Italyhas their own worry now. Forget about the first goal. It's over now.
First Crotia, then France. One at a time.
King tiger
09-06-2008, 16:42
Romania not Croatia :(
actually, there IS that rule you are talking about, Koeke :(
really? I didn't know it was a new rule I always thought this was the case. I think it's pretty dam logic aswel. Ah well Italy always begins bad two wins and they can still qualify ;)
I agree credit where its due.
Toni is not getting decent service, Camo pretty invisible, Pirlo did a lot of work winning balls and distributing in Italy's own half but thats not enough in my opinion.
With all the talk about goal line technology and stuff like that someone really needs to invent something to take linesmen out of the job of determining offsides.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:43
Most definitely, but Italy's game plan was uncompletely undone by the first goal. It wasn't like a bad defending or anything like that that leads to the goal.
It's bad refereeing. And the psychological damage is absolutely overwhelming. Italy was lost, completely lost. That's not their game plan for the whole game.
But Italyhas their own worry now. Forget about the first goal. It's over now.
First Crotia, then France. One at a time.
Might as well try. But we haven't beaten France since like 1978. Could we break it? I don't know. Not if Donadoni does the same line-up. Bad refereeing screwed us over in 2002 and now it happened again. Doesn't surprise me.
Rezag... yeah that would be nice. If someone would fix this problem... I'm so disgusted right now. I must recognize that Netherlands played well, but nonetheless Italy would not have been undone like that.
Holland proved to be a BIG team!
they totally out-classed Italy, although there were mistakes in the line-up and from the ref too :rolleyes:
really? I didn't know it was a new rule I always thought this was the case. I think it's pretty dam logic aswel. Ah well Italy always begins bad two wins and they can still qualify ;)
If a defending player steps behind his own goal line in order to place
an opponent in an offside position, the referee shall allow play to
continue and caution the defender for deliberately leaving the fi eld
of play without the referee’s permission when the ball is next out of
play.
It is not an offence in itself for a player who is in an offside position to
step off the fi eld of play to show the referee that he is not involved in
active play. However, if the referee considers that he has left the fi eld
of play for tactical reasons and has gained an unfair advantage by reentering
the fi eld of play, the player shall be cautioned for unsporting
behaviour. The player needs to ask for the referee’s permission to reenter
the fi eld of play.
if we didnt win vs france since 1978 then how did we win the WC2006 :wallbang:
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:48
if we didnt win vs france since 1978 then how did we win the WC2006 :wallbang:
Sorry. I mean with a win not assisted by penalty kicks... a 2-1 win over France... by goals...
Holland proved to be a BIG team!
they totally out-classed Italy
I agree. If we look at Netherland's players, there are only few that are 'stars'. I am really impressed. MVB's tactic was really classy IMO.
Sorry. I mean with a win not assisted by penalty kicks... a 2-1 win over France... by goals...
but its a win nonetheless ;)
Stich: I think Panucci was down injured (hit by either Buffon or another netheland player), and the injury occurred to be outside the field. In other words, he didn't step off. He was being injured at that time.
It was a tricky situation to the referee, but in this case it is not because the player was injured. Thus the player couldn't get back to the field on time (notice when the goal happened the Italian player is still on the ground not knowing what happened).
If there is a rule saying that it should continue then that's a stupid rule, because you can easily injure a defender (without anyone's notice) and then get in a pesudo-offside position, and scored.
Regardless, that first goal is probably what blows Italy away, badly (coupled with other factors of course).
Sorry. I mean with a win not assisted by penalty kicks... a 2-1 win over France... by goals...
If I remember Netheland didn't beat Italyfor a long time. Record is meant to be broken ;).
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:55
but its a win nonetheless ;)
Yes, but in this stage of the tournament I don't think they'll do penalty kicks. A draw is only one point. Which would be insufficient I believe.
Sites are in a hurry to write stories :ilol:
From soccernet:
Italy took control of Group C with an excellent 3-0 victory over World Champions Italy. Goals from Ruud van Nistelrooy, Wesley Sneijder and Giovanni van Bronckhorst completed a deserved victory. Earlier in the day, a hugely disappointing performance from France resulted in a goalless draw with unfancied Romania.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 16:57
If I remember Netheland didn't beat Italyfor a long time. Record is meant to be broken ;).
You can hope. Romania and France though... not easy.
t.gianni
09-06-2008, 16:57
The midfield was really static today. How can you play 3 defensive midfielders and hope that they will create chances for the attackers. Donadoni missed a very important point: Milan is succesfull with Ambro, Rino and Pirlo because they have Kaka and Seedorf in front of them. Who did Italy have? I think the team missed a playmaker like Totti. I realized that in this squad there is hardly any world class playmaker. This team is going to suck in attack if it progresses.
Now the math is simple. Win against France and Romania and improve the GD.
MVB's tactic is not close to classy. I don't know why we are giving them so much credit. They came with two quick counter-attack that scored on both counts; but gosh who didn't know to play counter attack these days after a corner kick or a freekick.
Before the first all-so-stupid goal, Italy and Nevertheland was on par. The closest is VN's one-on-one which turns out not to be nothing. The rest is pure history: Italy gotta push and leave room all the way behind.
If there was one MAJOR difference today, it's not the ref, it's not the tactic, it's nothing else. But taking chances.
Toni's miss; Ambro's unfortunate shot at the end, Pirlo's freekick, Di Natale's cheap shoot (and btw, how he could shoot that with a nevertheland defender in front of Van Der Sar speaks AMAZING defense of the orange).
And of course there are issues with Italian's line up, esp. the defense. Canna's out turns out to be a blow, obviously, and everything was undone, as I say, by the first non-existent goal.
If there was one event that triggers today's Italy loss, it's that goal.
t.gianni
09-06-2008, 17:00
If this team doesn't go through the group stages the media will literally crucify Donadoni once he comes back. I am worried because the FIGC will force Carlo to take over the reins. Donadoni please do some magic and at least reach the semi finals.
Stich: I think Panucci was down injured (hit by either Buffon or another netheland player), and the injury occurred to be outside the field. In other words, he didn't step off. He was being injured at that time.
It was a tricky situation to the referee, but in this case it is not because the player was injured. Thus the player couldn't get back to the field on time (notice when the goal happened the Italian player is still on the ground not knowing what happened).
If there is a rule saying that it should continue then that's a stupid rule, because you can easily injure a defender (without anyone's notice) and then get in a pesudo-offside position, and scored.
Regardless, that first goal is probably what blows Italy away, badly (coupled with other factors of course).
just to clear things out, i cheer for italy also :)
about the rule, I think it was up to the referee to decide if Panucci was faking the injury in order to make offside trap, or if he is really injured. Now, he maybe made a mistake by believing that Panucci is faking, but if he really thought the injury is not real, then there were no offside.
Onto the game, Italians have a "tradition" of bad starts in big competitions, so I am still an optimist they can beat poor France and Romania.
Good point t.gianni, and even with Kaka and Seedorf MIlan got into crap this year.
Boy I'm glad we have FLamini nexxt year ;).
I don't agree with Donadoni's choices before this match.
It was an exciting game, too bad it didn't have any tension with a close score.
I still belive italy can do this by winning against Romania and France
Obviously now we have taken Antonini back we won't make a bid for him, but i'm surprised we didn't move for Grosso. He did really well when he came on and was quite a big threat down the left.
Tonight showed what Italy (and in a sense Milan) miss when Ambrosini & Gattuso play. Neither are midfielders who can make a run from the midfield past the forwards like Perotta or De Rossi ... which is no criticism of them as players, it's just not what they are best at.
It's also a shame we missed out on Sneijder as i think he could have complemented our midfield trio perfectly. Having the Dutchman along with Flamini, Gattuso & Ambrosini to compete for the 2 places alongside Pirlo would have given us alot of options and balance.
Maybe looking to Van der Vaart instead of Ronaldinho would be a good idea, he'd be cheaper and possibly just as good.
I also thought that Van Persie's & Affellay's brief cameos showed their potential talent with some great ball control. I don't want to sound like a kid in a sweet shop saying "i want, i want" for everything, but we could do with a player like that too. A player with pace, quick feet and a goal threat.
kastriot
09-06-2008, 17:06
Stich: I think Panucci was down injured (hit by either Buffon or another netheland player), and the injury occurred to be outside the field. In other words, he didn't step off. He was being injured at that time.
It was a tricky situation to the referee, but in this case it is not because the player was injured. Thus the player couldn't get back to the field on time (notice when the goal happened the Italian player is still on the ground not knowing what happened).
If there is a rule saying that it should continue then that's a stupid rule, because you can easily injure a defender (without anyone's notice) and then get in a pesudo-offside position, and scored.
Regardless, that first goal is probably what blows Italy away, badly (coupled with other factors of course).
You are right it is tricky, and you already talked about one side of the "coin",however there is another outcome: When a player can missuse this kind of situation to trick the player into offside position.
This is somehow a loophole in the ref books i guess, cuz i heard a croatian ref on TV, and he didnt have a concrete judgment on this. Its basically on the ref to decide. and this time it was clear offisde as panucci was blown away by Buffon and he wasnt faking or smth.
The Croatian ref said that If he was hurt by a dutch player it would have been offside for sure
Also for a playmaker I didn't think that Pirlo did a good job controlling the tempo of the game. Then again it's so easy to just close down Pirlo because you know Ambrosini and Gattuso won't offer much of a threat. Like I've been saying for a season and a half now...that midfield trio DOES NOT WORK.
(to back up my previous claim, this is the site i copied the rule from, page 102)
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws%5fof%5fthe%5fgame%5f0708%5f10565.pdf
The first gaol is only a thing to blame for the lost. One goal shouldnt let down a world champion!
The fact is Italy couldnt do anything in first half except the chance of Toni who was so selfish not to head it to Di Natale. Italy was totally lost in first half in the midfieal area except at the beginning of the first half. The counter attack only justified the win of Hollan in the first half. If we look at back the second goal, it was fantastic counter attack, not just normal counter attack who all teams can do that. From left flank to the right flank and then pass to the left side to the free player and boom, GOAL!! Not like the chance Toni had!
The second half was pretty balanced and it's failure of Italy not able to make a single goal from chances they got. Was it tactical eror that put uncapble player to score or was it just the luck that went away from Italy? It's not important. It's failure of Italy.
Plus lost of Cannavaro should not influence Italy that high if Italy think that they have not only 11 players but more than that. Netherland also lost some of their players like Babel and Robben. It's all about tactic.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 17:11
Donadoni:
Italy coach Roberto Donadoni gave his reaction following the shock 3-0 defeat to Holland in their first game in Group C at Euro 2008.
"My worst game as Italy coach? I don't know if that's true," he said, "in the first half the Dutch didn't really do that much better than us, we started well, then we conceded a couple of goals where we made some mistakes.
"The first goal was a bit dodgy, but I can't say for sure whether it counted, it's not up to me to decide that. Now we have two games which we need to win, we will do everything we can."
Asked if he would change the formation for the next game against Romania, he said: "Now we have to look calmly at our mistakes and then I will see, certainly I will put in the best possible formation."
On the surprise omission of midfielder Daniele De Rossi: "There was no surprise. It's you who assumed De Rossi would play. We didn't make any last minute change in the formation."
http://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=729821
Toni's miss; Ambro's unfortunate shot at the end, Pirlo's freekick, Di Natale's cheap shoot (and btw, how he could shoot that with a nevertheland defender in front of Van Der Sar speaks AMAZING defense of the orange).
I agree with almost all of your post accept that Ambrosini's shot wasn't unfortunate, just a poor shot. Instead of hitting it straight or even breaking that line of defence and hitting it with his left, he shot towards a forest of legs and players ... that was never going in.
You also forgot about Del Piero's 2 chances, Grosso's chance and Pirlo's first free-kick that was alot closer than people thought. Van der Saar wouldn't have saved it had it been on target.
You have to accept that Holland got more things right today than Italy and more things went their way than Italy. Don't be so bitter :grinser:
I don't know how Toni is considered world class. Every touch of the ball he loses. He flops around and dives . For a man his size, he allows smaller defenders to outmuscle him...Not an impressive outing.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 17:17
No Inzaghi in this call up. Boy we might as well just pack our bags. Cassano instead of Inzaghi. Inzaghi, while not muscular by any means, is precision. He would not miss when under intense pressure.
I do admit Holland had more things right than Italy, and it was partly our line up and the players out on the pitch. Our backline was absolutely hideous.
This it was the first good match
Holland has two new fans
They are Swedish and both are referees
If Italia won’t win the next two matches they are out
Donadoni pls send materazzi home!!!!
The midfield was really static today. How can you play 3 defensive midfielders and hope that they will create chances for the attackers. Donadoni missed a very important point: Milan is succesfull with Ambro, Rino and Pirlo because they have Kaka and Seedorf in front of them. Who did Italy have? I think the team missed a playmaker like Totti. I realized that in this squad there is hardly any world class playmaker. This team is going to suck in attack if it progresses.
Now the math is simple. Win against France and Romania and improve the GD.
I think Dona learned that from his friendly encounter with Belgium. Our national coach Vandereycken always plays with 3 DM, like he did against Italy. Hence our extremely poor performance in recent games. Dona probably thought Italy could do it beter than Belgium. Just like our national coach, Dona declared to the press that they didn't play that bad... the similarity freaks me out...
(to back up my previous claim, this is the site i copied the rule from, page 102)
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws%5fof%5fthe%5fgame%5f0708%5f10565.pdf
Thank you Stittch, thats really good post from you! I really appreciate it.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 17:29
I think Dona learned that from his friendly encounter with Belgium. Our national coach Vandereycken always plays with 3 DM, like he did against Italy. Hence our extremely poor performance in recent games. Dona probably thought Italy could do it beter than Belgium. Just like our national coach, Dona declared to the press that they didn't play that bad... the similarity freaks me out...
Yep. He thought wrong. If Belgium played poorly with three defensive midfielders, why did Donadoni try it? There wasn't enough creativity there. Even I can admit that. I mean Ambrosini might be good.. but not with two other defensive midfielders...
And not like our backline was any better. Materazzi... ugh.
t.gianni
09-06-2008, 17:39
If seem to remmeber Materazzi was terrible last season and without him I again don't see any world class center backs. Nesta really should have had stayed on for Euro 08. Barzagli is again ordinary. He can never step up to the level of Nesta and Cannavaro. Materazzi simply has to step up his game other wise Italy are doomed.
It would be too much to ask for but I would like to see Chiellini playing as a CB.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 17:43
If seem to remmeber Materazzi was terrible last season and without him I again don't see any world class center backs. Nesta really should have had stayed on for Euro 08. Barzagli is again ordinary. He can never step up to the level of Nesta and Cannavaro. Materazzi simply has to step up his game other wise Italy are doomed.
It would be too much to ask for but I would like to see Chiellini playing as a CB.
Nesta is probably thinking why he didn't reconsider... he's incredible... his slide tackling... perfect... he's produced great plays for Milan... in fact people referred to him as a one man army at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU-G3Xe_3FM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb5JlOS9zvE
you are welcome, Siregar :)
I was so surprized that De Rossi wasn't on the pitch. I think it would have made a great difference because Pirlo would have been able to go up and pick up the ball on the half way line instead of right in front of the defenders. De Rossi passes the ball great and can pick it up from the defenders while basing a great defensive wall with Gattuso as well. This is why Pirlo would have had a lot more freedom. Ambrosini was plain simple bad today as was Camoranesi who never got it going, although he was played more as a winger rather then a midfielder. The surprizing thing was that Toni was embarassing and never did anything the whole game. Never held up the ball well and when he got his only chance to score he embarassed himself by a horrible shot. I think he'll get better however and he'll score against the Romanians.
It's a horrible start but all Italy have to do now is beat Romania and hope that France doesn't beat or better yet loses against Holland. That way Italy will be in control of the last game against France.
It'll be exciting.
Yep. He thought wrong. If Belgium played poorly with three defensive midfielders, why did Donadoni try it? There wasn't enough creativity there. Even I can admit that. I mean Ambrosini might be good.. but not with two other defensive midfielders...
As I said many times before I like Ambro and Gatusso but I don't like to see them play at the same time. Not for Italy and not for Milan.
I do know some games it works perfectly (last inter game) but most of the time it doesn't work.
Italy does mis Nesta but I'm glad he didn't come back out of international retirement. He is way to important for Milan, he should rest enought given the fact he's got to play for milan for another 10 years or something ;)
This thread is specific to talk about every game.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 18:22
As I said many times before I like Ambro and Gatusso but I don't like to see them play at the same time. Not for Italy and not for Milan.
I do know some games it works perfectly (last inter game) but most of the time it doesn't work.
Italy does mis Nesta but I'm glad he didn't come back out of international retirement. He is way to important for Milan, he should rest enought given the fact he's got to play for milan for another 10 years or something ;)
Too true. They are too much alike. Why wasn't Grosso out there in the back though? Barzagli was awful and Matrix was horrible... he should go the Serie C or something. Did Inter pay Donadoni to keep him on the national team? There is no excuse for this.
I mean for goodness sakes, the Milan-Inter game was a representation of Materazzi. Did DONADONI just not watch it? didn't he watch how bad materazzi was marking Milan players? I mean I'm sure Chiellini or Grosso would have been better..
The reason why the Ambrosini and Gattuso combo works more for Milan is because of the creativity in Kaka. Too bad Kaka is Brazilian.
Yeah too true about Nesta... I'm split on my decision on that one.
last nights games
Romania-France
0-0
Italy-the Netherlands
0-3
Toni did ok. He turned well.
YEs JIm that Pirlo's first FK, if gotten in, would be a CLASSIC. That would put VDS, whose position was all wrong, down a lot lol.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 18:27
Toni did ok. He turned well.
YEs JIm that Pirlo's first FK, if gotten in, would be a CLASSIC. That would put VDS, whose position was all wrong, down a lot lol.
Pirlo played really well.
And if there is anything we should take from this game, is that to heart. Pirlo has service he can do for Milan. It's just his teammates were letting him down.
Na, finallya there is thread to discuss all games. Thank you Koeke to make this happen. :D
Romania - France didnt impress me and I took a snap during that match to be fit to watch the Italy - Netherland because I was so sleepy today. :D
Genius Donadoni put Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambrosini in midfield ... and they played like they did all this season with Milan: poorly. Pirlo missed almost everything except one single free kick, Gattuso seemed useless and Ambrosini too (if they were useful, why 3-0 ?).
Toni was so alone in front ... Di Natale didn't play like against Belgium (umh why ? "Only" Netherlands against Italy ?!) and I'm still asking to myself where Camoranesi was ...
I don't speak about defense, there was no defense.
I expect a better match against Romania to hope a qualification in a big match against France (I could invite my friends to watch this match, if Italy wins, I will be so happy and they will be so disappointed lol, but if France wins, I'll kick their asses out of my home).
Boring Euro day again !! The only change with the last 2 days was a good match tonight, no sorry, a good team on the pitch, Netherlands ...
hey GeoTav, how come you cheer against your country? :)
hey GeoTav, how come you cheer against your country? :)
You mean how can I be against France and for Italy ?
Look at the other topic "Whom do you support ?" I think or something like that ...
I'm starting to think I didn't watch the right game ...
I sincerely think that Pirlo did nothing amazing and missed too many passes and free-kicks/corners in that match, he also lost a ball by pushing too far his ball which could have given a goal to Netherlands.
Yes he was dangerous in one free-kick in first half I think (when I say dangerous, I even don't think so, to be honest, I think the free-kick Jeff wrote about, probably the one Pirlo tried to put directly in the goal whereas everybody thought it would be a pass but the effect pushed the ball too in left, wasn't dangerous) and in one free-kick in second half (saved by Van Der Sar).
Genius Donadoni put Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambrosini in midfield ... and they played like they did all this season with Milan: poorly. Pirlo missed almost everything except one single free kick, Gattuso seemed useless and Ambrosini too (if they were useful, why 3-0 ?).
Toni was so alone in front ... Di Natale didn't play like against Belgium (umh why ? "Only" Netherlands against Italy ?!) and I'm still asking to myself where Camoranesi was ...
I don't speak about defense, there was no defense.
I expect a better match against Romania to hope a qualification in a big match against France (I could invite my friends to watch this match, if Italy wins, I will be so happy and they will be so disappointed lol, but if France wins, I'll kick their asses out of my home).
Boring Euro day again !! The only change with the last 2 days was a good match tonight, no sorry, a good team on the pitch, Netherlands ...
See my other post re: Pirlo, Gattuo and Ambro. Pirlo didn't miss evcerything; you really can't put the blame on our midfield today. It was the DC who needed to take 50% of the responsiblity today (the other goes to the referee).
It was other players who didn't perform; long passes from Defender who never reached the forward, who seldom managed to turn. It was lost through our AMC most of the time.
Then of coursey ou gotta give credit to the orange!
If there was one thing you can criticize our Milan trio it's their lack of creaitivty which, btw, belongs to di natalie (not as brilliant), camerosi (poor), and luca toni (that miss was bad but he did ok overall).
Honestly: From where you can see Netheland a good team judging before the first goal is puzzling. Italy and Netheland were on par by that point, and one bad mistake (or unfortunate episode that you seldom see in football, if not a mistake) by the referee cost the whole game momentum around.
Reminds me of the red-card against Lehmann when ARseanl playing against Barcelona in the final.
From goal.com:
The Real Madrid striker pounced on a razor sharp cross from Sneijder to tap in from close range.
Replay’s can clearly show the player in an offside position but Italy defender Christian Panucci was deemed by the linesman to have played Van Nistelrooy onside even though the stopper was off the pitch and down on the touchline with what seemed like an injury.
Nevertheless, the goal stood and Gussoni believes it was legitimate despite the whole of Italy going berzerk when it was allowed to stand.
“The linesman applied UEFA’s ruling 100 per cent,” said Gussoni.
“He evaluated Panucci’s position as the player who kept Van Nistelrooy onside.
“I thought it was offside but the replay showed Panucci off the pitch.”
The rules specify on whether or not a player leaves the field voluntarily or involuntarily in an attempt to play the striker offside.
But, in Panucci’s case, it is impossible to tell whether he left the pitch voluntarily or vice-versa.
“The sense of the rule is to avoid players leaving the pitch on purpose in an attempt to gain an advantage from playing the other player offside,” said Gussoni.
“Besides, Italy lost the game by more than one goal regardless of extrinsic factors.”
Italy were woeful on the night but they still have two life lines against Romania and France as they attempt to keep their Euro hopes alive in the group of death.
***
Now that explains. If that guy was injured out there it is still onside. Is the rule stupid? hell go ahead and judge. There is always a leeway in some rule, and this leeway proves to be decisive.
Even more fun is that people are praising Van Der Sar.
com'on; Pirlo almost made him look stupid in the first freekick. Thanks JIm for reminding.
Na, finallya there is thread to discuss all games. Thank you Koeke to make this happen. :D
Your welcome mate ;)
hey GeoTav, how come you cheer against your country? :)
I know some Frenchies and I must admit GeoTav is really one of a kind. For starters he wrights English ;)
Boring Euro day again !!
I hope to be proven wrong but isn't that typically for the first match in each group?
I don't know how Toni is considered world class. Every touch of the ball he loses. He flops around and dives . For a man his size, he allows smaller defenders to outmuscle him...Not an impressive outing.
If you judge him on this single match with no good passes (only one he missed) ... when you score as much as him, either in Italy or Germany + with national team, you can be considered as a W-C striker ...
I'm starting to think I didn't watch the right game ...
I sincerely think that Pirlo did nothing amazing and missed too many passes and free-kicks/corners in that match, he also lost a ball by pushing too far his ball which could have given a goal to Netherlands.
Yes he was dangerous in one free-kick in first half I think (when I say dangerous, I even don't think so, to be honest, I think the free-kick Jeff wrote about, probably the one Pirlo tried to put directly in the goal whereas everybody thought it would be a pass but the effect pushed the ball too in left, wasn't dangerous) and in one free-kick in second half (saved by Van Der Sar).
PIrlo curled in a freekcik that went past the bottom left corner post (remember all Italian players in offside positions and ran back?) Van Der Ser was off position. IN fact, Pirlo didn't even need to go for the corner. Anywhere near the corner would help because VDS was completely off position. That was not dangerous? That was so dangerous that no one except him even saw it. Go and see the replay.
Pirlo didn't lose the ball as often as you say. And made a brilliant pass down to Grosso on the left in the second half who shot and denied by VDS. You forgot that?
Pirlo controlled and distributed the ball correctly even if not many of them are amazing.
His corner was not awful. It didn't go all the way to far side and met no one's head.
Talking about meeting someone's head, his long pass met TOni who didn't position himself well.
and btw, his corner almost led to a goal in the first half.
and you said he is awkward? I have 6 strong points here showing that PIrlo is not awkward.
Oh wait, he defended overall well enough today and made some excellent tackle if you remember.
I think we did see a different game.
1 - PIrlo curled in a freekcik that went past the bottom left corner post (remember all Italian players in offside positions and ran back?) Van Der Ser was off position. IN fact, Pirlo didn't even need to go for the corner. Anywhere near the corner would help because VDS was completely off position. That was not dangerous? That was so dangerous that no one except him even saw it. Go and see the replay.
2 - Pirlo didn't lose the ball as often as you say. And made a brilliant pass down to Grosso on the left in the second half who shot and denied by VDS. You forgot that?
3 - Pirlo controlled and distributed the ball correctly even if not many of them are amazing.
4 - His corner was not awful. It didn't go all the way to far side and met no one's head.
5 - Talking about meeting someone's head, his long pass met TOni who didn't position himself well.
6 - and btw, his corner almost led to a goal in the first half.
and you said he is awkward? I have 6 strong points here showing that PIrlo is not awkward.
7 - Oh wait, he defended overall well enough today and made some excellent tackle if you remember.
I think we did see a different game.
1: If I remember, the ball goes 1 "small" meter on the left of the goal ... but I'll try to watch him again to see if I missed something !!
2: I didn't say he lost the ball very often, I said he lost one time which could have given a very dangerous occasion for Netherlands, watch replays :tongue1:
3: It's clearly there I disagree ... he tried to pass the balls too often in airs (ouch, do you understand what I'm trying to explain ?) whereas none of these long passes could have given something good with that pitch ...
4: Corners were not awful, but they weren't good ... just average corners with nothing happening with them ...
7: No one defended well, that has no sense I think to say that when the defeat is 3-0 and the first half is entirely in advantage for the opponents with many occasions ...
For the "awkward" word, I don't know its meaning, but I don't think it's a respectful word, so I won't use it (but I'm interested to know its meaning lol). He just wasn't very good, like almost all Italy players tonight ... (not only Milan ones Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambrosini and our new one, Zambrotta)
ok, this is my personal opinion but,
2 out of 3 our midfielders were dreadful...
Pirlo - OK
Ambrosini and Gattuso,.. .I was really surprised to see them start, they are nothing like a modern midfielder! they are inefficient, lack creativity, poorly support the attacks.. Gattuso - can't pass, period. Ambrosini - looks lost throughout 90 minutes.
If Italy wants to qualify they should consider playing
Aguilani - Pirlo - De Rossi
I hope Ancelotti was watching the game and keeps it in mind for a transfer season...
I know some Frenchies and I must admit GeoTav is really one of a kind. For starters he wrights English ;)
Big LOL ;)
I hope to be proven wrong but isn't that typically for the first match in each group?
Yes, but it could have been a good Euro day with a win from Italy, no matter the way to win lol !!
With that loss, even if we had had 2 very amazing matches, I would have said it was a boring Euro day because of the result ... lol
PS: Jeff, let's continue our speak about our midfielders on the "Milan players in Euro" topic because I just saw we were arguing about that on 3 different topics !! lol
Did Inter pay Donadoni to keep him on the national team? There is no excuse for this.
Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ? Inter is already a joke and would have to be banned from Serie A to play in Premier League (where all teams are international sides without any English lol). So let them thinking they can be important for Italy thanks to Materazzi !! lol
More seriously, there isn't so much choices on these recent times for defense ... I'm afraid that Italy could be in trouble with its defense for the next World Cup !! There's a generation missing (because the next generation seems very promising in all areas).
t.gianni
09-06-2008, 20:01
Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ? Inter is already a joke and would have to be banned from Serie A to play in Premier League (where all teams are international sides without any English lol). So let them thinking they can be important for Italy thanks to Materazzi !! lol
More seriously, there isn't so much choices on these recent times for defense ... I'm afraid that Italy could be in trouble with its defense for the next World Cup !! There's a generation missing (because the next generation seems very promising in all areas).
As much I hate Materazzi, he is not that bad of a defender. he did have a decent WC06 and the 07 Serie A. Any coach would have had picked him and hoped that he would retur to his WC form.
Yes, Italy is missing a generation of defenders but I think that Chiellini can be the next generation of defenders. Donadoni should certainly give him a chance.
As much I hate Materazzi, he is not that bad of a defender. he did have a decent WC06 and the 07 Serie A. Any coach would have had picked him and hoped that he would retur to his WC form.
Yes, Italy is missing a generation of defenders but I think that Chiellini can be the next generation of defenders. Donadoni should certainly give him a chance.
Donadoni will have to include some young defenders playing with Canavarro and Materazzi/Barzagli for the World Cup qualifications if they don't want to be in trouble like France was after Euro 2004 (they had to call back Thuram, Makelele and Zidane, because they weren't able to qualify for the last World Cup).
Materazzi is a decent defender, sometimes a good defender, rarely but it can happen, a very good defender, but if for example Nesta was still there, he would be the 3rd/4th choice for the national team ...
PS: I don't expect a lot from Donadoni, I don't like him, I'm sure he won't change the team too much, maybe in midfield and one guy in front, but Barzagli-Materazzi will probably play again together (I hope Donadoni will make me lying).
Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ?
Eventhough you are joking, you to hit a point there. Let me put it this way, there's only one player from the Serie A champions Italy has to call, this is the team that was more regular through the season and he wasn't even a regular there; then there's Roma in second place, a nice team, they play fine, but we all know they are a naive team, they've got like 3 players called up (Panucci, De Rossi and Perrota); then there's Juventus a mediocre 3rd place team, that most likely wouldn't have reached it had they play some european football, they have 4 players from there (Buffon, Del Piero, Camoranessi, Chiellini); then there's just one player from the 4th place who was called up because one of the defenders got injured; 3 players, the same 3 midfielders of the team that won a place at the UEFA Cup, the 3 midfielders of a midfield that has been awful all season long...at least 2 out of the 3 will be starters for Italy; 1 player from another UEFA Cup team; and another one from another team that is going to UEFA (the last two are the most talented ones a.k.a Cassano and Di Natale). A one season wonder that scored 18 goals for Genoa and wasn't able to handle the preassure of being the top goalscorer. The second goalkepper is from a relegated team, and one of the starter defenders played for the team that received more goals in the season.
From abroad there was the captain that got injured, but also came from a sucky year, the LB/RB that also had a bad season, the LB that played so so for Lyon, the 3rd GK that never played for Sevilla, and the best striker and the best player that plays for Bayern Munich, who can't do anything if the rest of his teamates aren't functioning.
What I'm trying to say in this, is that that lack of italian players in Inter, and their dominance in this 2 seasons, while the other teams basically sucked or were having a cinderella story or were just too naive, was defenetly going to affect their NT in a way or another.
That said, Italy still isn't dead. There have been other 2 games for Italy under Donadoni that have ended in a similar result (3-1, against France and in a friendly against Hungary-with the starters-), Italy has bounce back from those results.
Yes, and I"m alerting people here now that I'm going to merge all these threads within the next 15mins (give you guys enough notice now so that you won't ask me 'where is my post"?
Thanks - J
I"m alerting people here now that I'm going to merge all these threads within the next 15mins (give you guys enough notice now so that you won't ask me 'where is my post"?
Thanks - J
awkward means looked weird. Not an offensive word, but Pirlo didn't look awkward. If you play, for example, Buffon as a striker: that will be really awkward.
regarding your point 2, I would say that it happened often all the time with Pirlo's position. It happened in good and bad games, but only more so obvious in the bad ones. Anywya....
I will still maintain my suggestion though. That first goal, whether it's legal or ilegal or not, has blown the Italian players apart psychologically and destroyed the game plan completely. This I had not a single doubt. The key is not whether the goal is legal or not; the key is whether AT THAT MOMENT whether the players feel justified.
Clearly not. ANd honestly I don't think any one of us would say that, legal or not, that's fortunate for Italy. I think people have underestimated the influence of that goal, thinking that Netheland win 3-0 but not 1-0. If that happened at after 2-0 I wouldn't have a problem, but having it as the first goal makes a huge difference. Taht's what I"m arguing.
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 22:26
No one defended well because we had two awful defenders in the back. Cannavaro and Barzagli play well with each other. Barzagli does not play well with anyone else and we see this everywhere. Especially today. It's like Cannavaro needs to hold Barzagli's hand (according to one commentator). Stop blaming the damn midfield, and put the blame on the defenders in the back. Wolfsburg will be regreting buying him.
Pirlo was by far the best player by far. And he was the best in this game. He tried his best under the circumstances of the crappy atmosphere. Milan would have performed well if Donadoni started with Grosso, Cassano and Del Piero. Del Piero could have been the captain of the team... and there were calls for him to be. I like Del Piero and he is an inspirational person.
Grosso should have been out on the field to start with.
I"m alerting people here now that I'm going to merge all these threads within the next 15mins (give you guys enough notice now so that you won't ask me 'where is my post"?
Thanks - J
I have just merged every thread. Please read through the last few pages to see if any of your responses is lost...
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 22:39
Donadoni had no choice: can you imagine a national team without any player from the domestic champion ? Inter is already a joke and would have to be banned from Serie A to play in Premier League (where all teams are international sides without any English lol). So let them thinking they can be important for Italy thanks to Materazzi !! lol
More seriously, there isn't so much choices on these recent times for defense ... I'm afraid that Italy could be in trouble with its defense for the next World Cup !! There's a generation missing (because the next generation seems very promising in all areas).
Then he can be a bench warmer. How could he start with that punk anyways? He was outplayed game after game. He was totally destroyed in the Milan-Inter derby... it was disgusting. If I was Donadoni, I'd have Materazzi just warm the benches.
I think there are many great defenders... but Donadoni didn't call them up. Younger great defenders out there...
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 22:42
Donadoni will have to include some young defenders playing with Canavarro and Materazzi/Barzagli for the World Cup qualifications if they don't want to be in trouble like France was after Euro 2004 (they had to call back Thuram, Makelele and Zidane, because they weren't able to qualify for the last World Cup).
Materazzi is a decent defender, sometimes a good defender, rarely but it can happen, a very good defender, but if for example Nesta was still there, he would be the 3rd/4th choice for the national team ...
PS: I don't expect a lot from Donadoni, I don't like him, I'm sure he won't change the team too much, maybe in midfield and one guy in front, but Barzagli-Materazzi will probably play again together (I hope Donadoni will make me lying).
Materazzi is crap and no matter who he plays with he shouldn't be on the field. His form fell apart in the last year.
catennacio
09-06-2008, 22:45
Materazzi is crap and no matter who he plays with he shouldn't be on the field. His form fell apart in the last year.
yeah yeah you're right... he's crap :D =))
Giancarlo
09-06-2008, 22:57
yeah yeah you're right... he's crap :D =))
I actually never really considered him to be that good... but at least in the 2006 World Cup he had some skill and was decent... he did score that one header (off Pirlo's corner kick)... but beyond that I'm not impressed at all by him.
Donadoni better had an extreme wake-up call, and I hope that Italy beats France.
this is what i call Euro tournaments. since the first game (Switzerland vs Czech Republic) and continue until Romania vs France the games were bored as hell. but this tournaments started to interesting when Holland met Italy last night. what a blow by Italy. considering Romania and France each got 1 point. Donadoni pushed Panuchi as a starter in RB position while he was on doubt to playing. everything was done to recovered Cannavaro absent. but Van Basten displayed a pretty tactic. playing Ruud Van Nistelrooy as a front man supported by Van Der Vaart, Wesley Sneijder and Dirk Kuyt they were displaying an attacking and efficient football. although Italy got the frist chance by Luca Toni from an assist by Rino but the header was missed. after that Holland got many chances. started from Van Nistelrooy got smart passed from Kuyt but RvN lost his balance and just too wide for the shot. after that Sneijder also made a beautiful chance. but still no goal. hope was on when Pirlo got a free kick from Max effort but failed as the kick was too long for Toni at the back post. Van Der Vaart blasted an amazing free kick and Buffon couldnt clear the ball very well as that kick went out to Sneijder who gave it to RvN and passed Buffon to make scoreboard 1-0 for Holland. but for real that was clearly OFFSIDE :mad: what a dissapoinment as the linesmen were couldnt realised that in such big tournament as Euro 2008:rollani: but i wont make this as an excuse for Italy defeat because Holland played very beautiful. 2nd goal is another evidence. it was a counterattack as