Argentine Passport scandal

[Giancarlo]

Has anyone else heard about this? This could heavily involve Inter and Napoli... Napoli could hit hard by irregularities involving their signing of German Denis. Supposedly, passports were being falsified when these players were claiming they had ties to Italy... so they could obtain EU status I believe. Maybe I'm not getting the story totally right... but, this is what I heard.

Inter and Napoli could now face stiff penalties, or should at least, involving this huge scandal. I hope at least point deductions are made. Something of this nature happened with Carlos Tevez (not exactly the same thing but along the lines)...

Edit: The story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7503877.stm

The authorities in Argentina say they have uncovered a multi-million dollar operation in forged Italian passports.

Many of those being investigated are professional footballers.

It is thought they use the false passports to overcome the limit on the number of non-European Union foreigners playing in the Italian league.

The scandal came to light when the Italian consul in Buenos Aires did not recognise the signatures on Italian passports issued there.

A judge, Norberto Oyarbide, launched an investigation which resulted in hundreds of police raids across Argentina.

It's not only footballers who are benefiting from the scandal, officials say - but in football-mad Argentina, which has hundreds of players playing abroad, they are the ones attracting the attention.

There is a limit on the number of non-European Union nationals who can play for each club - but claiming Italian nationality is one way around that rule.

Many Argentines, and therefore Argentine footballers, have Italian ancestry.

However, they can get an illegal passport in a few days for $30,000 (£15,000) - while the official one could take several months, or even years.

The spotlight is also shining on the small southern Italian village of Fagnano Castello, since several of the false documents named it as the birthplace of the great-grandparents of a number of the Argentine footballers being investigated.

[Kaka1899]

dont worry the FIGC wont dare punish Inter or there will be huge repercussions

[Kerlz]

dont worry the FIGC wont dare punish Inter or there will be huge repercussions

Its too bad since they havent made any new argentine signings. Alot of Brazilians though

[Siregar]

Another reason to reject argentinian players to Milan :D :D :D

[Kerlz]

Another reason to reject argentinian players to Milan :D :D :DArgentine players are of the most diciplined and true proffesionals of the game. Unlike many of the new generation of brazilians who all seem to love the late night party life. On top of the Argentine Clasura is very similar to Serie A which is why so many Argentines players fit into Serie A so well.

[Siregar]

I was joking of course in my previous post. :D

But seriously, I like argentinian players not that much. I dont know, I just think their type of play cant convinve me to like them. Like Tevez, Aimar, Riquelme, D'Alessandro havent impressed me. There is something missing on them but till now I dont know what it is. :D

[Giancarlo]

I've never been all that impressed by Argentine players either. I don't know... I mean there are some superstars... but they seem to have huge problems with consistency. I remember that one Copa America game where a first string "top of the line" Argentine side played against a 2nd and even 3rd string depleted Brazil squad... and lost 3-0.

It's just I don't view Argentine players as consistent... something I do see in Brazilians and Italians.

[Rico]

The scandal is very sad to see. Let's hope the penalties will be fair.

Argentines failing to impress you?
Maradona.

Argentine stars not stabile?
Redondo.

[Giancarlo]

The scandal is very sad to see. Let's hope the penalties will be fair.

Argentines failing to impress you?
Maradona.

Argentine stars not stabile?
Redondo.

Yes they do fail to impress me. And you name Maradona... um, that was decades ago. Argentine players in recent history do suffer from consistency problems. I'm not sure why really...

[Milano84]

Yes they do fail to impress me. And you name Maradona... um, that was decades ago. Argentine players in recent history do suffer from consistency problems. I'm not sure why really...


i'd say there current crop of up and comers is best theyve seen in a while... ATTACKINGwise anyway. Still weak in general mf's or defenders.....

messi, aguero, zarate, di maria, bounanotte, moralez, lavezzi could all have a place at milan.

and i agree w/ persons post on argentine league being similar to serie A. I think we should overlookargentine stereotypes of past and realize theres some solid attacking talent there.....defensivel, i'd look elsewhere though :-)

[Giancarlo]

i'd say there current crop of up and comers is best theyve seen in a while... ATTACKINGwise anyway. Still weak in general mf's or defenders.....

messi, aguero, zarate, di maria, bounanotte, moralez, lavezzi could all have a place at milan.

and i agree w/ persons post on argentine league being similar to serie A. I think we should overlookargentine stereotypes of past and realize theres some solid attacking talent there.....defensivel, i'd look elsewhere though :-)

Even their attacking players are inconsistent I think. I'm more in favor of Brazilians or Italians... I prefer tactical attack of the Italians, and the strong attack of Brazilians...

[Milano84]

so are brazilians though... robinho, kaka, ronaldinho, adriano..... none the model of consistancy... the last consistant attaker was ronaldo... when he was in shape and healthy.
although i will dmit when they r on form, they r amazing....

[Giancarlo]

so are brazilians though... robinho, kaka, ronaldinho, adriano..... none the model of consistancy... the last consistant attaker was ronaldo... when he was in shape and healthy.
although i will dmit when they r on form, they r amazing....

I think Kaka has been consistent. The only thing that got him down was that injury. But he's performed well for quite a few years. Kaka is an attacking midfielder though. And I think there are other great Brazilian forwards out there that are consistent... including Luis Fabiano.

[Milano84]

oh fabiano? overrated............. all 4 i listed in a class well above fabiano. Pato will be the next great 1 for them, dunno that theres really anyone coming up other than pato. Possibly Jo actually? But none r more developed than aguero or messi... if u cant tell i really really like aguero... i think him + pato would murder

[Giancarlo]

oh fabiano? overrated............. all 4 i listed in a class well above fabiano. Pato will be the next great 1 for them, dunno that theres really anyone coming up other than pato. Possibly Jo actually? But none r more developed than aguero or messi... if u cant tell i really really like aguero... i think him + pato would murder

I don't really agree with you. On anything really. So moving on.

Jo is overrated. If he was so good he would have ended up at a better club. Same story goes for Rafael Sobis (where did he end up going? Qatar?).

[Milano84]

jo went to mancity for money.

[Giancarlo]

jo went to mancity for money.

Doesn't make him quality.

I think he's at best... 2nd string Copa America quality...

[Milano84]

so you'd rather have luis fabiano to aguero

[Giancarlo]

so you'd rather have luis fabiano to aguero

I think Aguero is a great player... and I think he's finally found solid consistency + form at Atletico. I think after Torres left, there was the emergence of a new duo... Aguero+Forlan (wish for his full recovery)... one of the best partnerships in Europe... up there with Di Natale and Quagliarella...

Atletico is my 2nd favorite team if I had to say anything about it.

Aguero+Sinama Pongelle will be effective too...

Luis Fabiano or Aguero? Tough call. I can't say. I like both.

[Milano84]

yeah point is i think aguero is a serious talent who will be 1 of best strikers in world. Obviously theres messi who wont move. And Zarate, Di Maria and other young argentinees r showing LOTS of potential. This is there best generation of talent.....they won 2007 U20 world cup and 2008 olympics (u23) so signs r there...
i mean if u watched match against brazil in olympics they cleaned the floor w/ brazil. i'll attribute alot of it to dungas terrible tactics/coaching, but this generartion of argentinians who r 19-21 are great. I have always been more a brazil guy than argentina guy. But my feeling is this generation is superior to brazil. It happens, so i dont want us to be closeminded in it is all.

[Giancarlo]

yeah point is i think aguero is a serious talent who will be 1 of best strikers in world. Obviously theres messi who wont move. And Zarate, Di Maria and other young argentinees r showing LOTS of potential. This is there best generation of talent.....they won 2007 U20 world cup and 2008 olympics (u23) so signs r there...
i mean if u watched match against brazil in olympics they cleaned the floor w/ brazil. i'll attribute alot of it to dungas terrible tactics/coaching, but this generartion of argentinians who r 19-21 are great. I have always been more a brazil guy than argentina guy. But my feeling is this generation is superior to brazil. It happens, so i dont want us to be closeminded in it is all.

Argentina regular national team hasn't won a major tournament in who knows how long... and Dunga was a fool. I thought he played the wrong kind of line-up... why would he play Alex Silva over Thiago Silva for example?

Either way, Argentina's regular national team with all its stars and such hasn't won a single trophy since 1993. The last final they were in was the Copa America 2007 I believe... they were beaten 3-0 by a 2nd string Brazil... and that Argentina included a lot of the young talent you're talking about, including Riquelme as well.

I do not think they are even close to Brazil. Brazil, like Italy, hardly wins in the Olympics. But to call the new generation of Argentines better than the new generation of Brazilians,... no not for one second will I ever agree with that.

[Milano84]

but brazil played pato, Anderson and others plus dinho vs messi aguero di maria and got best badly. You can't make sweeping statements like brazil plays bad in Olympics. They wanted to win. They made it clear. If they didnt dinho wouldn't have gone... They took it seriously

[Giancarlo]

but brazil played pato, Anderson and others plus dinho vs messi aguero di maria and got best badly. You can't make sweeping statements like brazil plays bad in Olympics. They wanted to win. They made it clear. If they didnt dinho wouldn't have gone... They took it seriously

You're not looking at the whole squad. Either way, Pato was benched most of the time and attacked by his own coach. You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. If Dunga was serious he would have played with a better defense, including Thiago Silva. Thiago Silva played one game the entire Olympics, and was benched for Alex Silva... who frankly isn't as good.

And guess what? I can and will make sweeping statements. You're not going to tell me what I can or cannot say. :scream:

You still can't make the dubious statement that the new generation of Argentines are better than the Brazilians... that's a falsehood in the greatest.

The next time Argentina's regular national team actually wins something... lol... won't be any time in the next decade.

[Kerlz]

Ancelotti doesnt play pato over Inaghi or Shevskenco eithier, so was Dunga wrong by not playing pato as a starter??

Its difficult to say who has better talent between Argentina and Brazil, but all we can do is refer to Argentina's success in U21 level in the past few years.

Also looking at rising stars and their influence at club level, one has to give Argentine players more credit.

Macherano,Gago,Aguero,Messi- are outperforming -Anderson,Lucas,Pato, and Robinho at club level.

[Giancarlo]

Ancelotti doesnt play pato over Inaghi or Shevskenco eithier, so was Dunga wrong by not playing pato as a starter??

Its difficult to say who has better talent between Argentina and Brazil, but all we can do is refer to Argentina's success in U21 level in the past few years.

Also looking at rising stars and their influence at club level, one has to give Argentine players more credit.

Macherano,Gago,Aguero,Messi- are outperforming -Anderson,Lucas,Pato, and Robinho at club level.

Not this again. Pato has played quite a bit in Milan, and was often a starter... he was allowed more space than what he was allowed by Dunga. Ancelotti also cares about his development. Pato started against Zurich... and did pretty well.

Please look at the facts and don't try to get into an argument with me. While I like some Argentine talent, as a whole I think they are overrated. I've rated Aguero highly in the past. But Argentine midfielders and defenders are very much overrated... and I'll say that right now. Burdisso? Cambiasso? Come on pal... lol.

Your last sentence about them outperforming is a matter of personal opinion and something I certainly do not agree with at all.

The next time Argentina wins either the Copa America or World Cup please tell me... maybe hopefully before my 40th birthday lol.

[Mystik]

^^^ Let me get this straight. You honestly believe that at club level, the 4 Brazilians listed have done better than the 4 Argentine players mentioned?

[Milano84]

the same argument about brazil and argentina can be equivilated to italy and spain. Guess who won euros? POINT is you're right... throughout history brazil and italy dwarf any other nation. But that doesnt mean argentina (or spain) r bad.... underachieiving? YES. but full of talent? Yes.... and you never know what can happen in future. History is meant to be broken.

As for your copa america example..... Argentina lost crespo mid-tourney (while he was on form), and started tevez and a barely 20 year old messi. You all saw messi in olympics against players his own age. I can ONLY imagine when him and aguero r 26-28 (say 2014) olympics how dangerous they'll be. This is not an inditement against

Players like aguero, di maria, buonanotte, impress me. I simply dont want them overlooked because they r argentinian. Talent is talent, I believe we should always have a base of italian players (we're not inter) and barring character problems... we should always strive to get the best players, no matter on nationality. not the best brazilians only

[Kerlz]

Dunga critisized Pato's tactics and to politely put it his Immature understand of the game, which is normal at his age. Dunga didnt critisize his quality. Obviously pato has more quality then Sorbis, but Dunga needed a player who could lead the farward line, make runs, beat the offside trap ect ect.

Im not saying Dunga was right or wrong in his decision because im just an observer with limited knowledge of Futbal, while Dunga is an established manager and former Brazilian captain.

[Giancarlo]

the same argument about brazil and argentina can be equivilated to italy and spain. Guess who won euros? POINT is you're right... throughout history brazil and italy dwarf any other nation. But that doesnt mean argentina (or spain) r bad.... underachieiving? YES. but full of talent? Yes.... and you never know what can happen in future. History is meant to be broken.

I never said Argentina was bad. I think individual talents, like with the case of Spain, are quite superb and world class. But Spain's defense is still bad (Marchena in particular). And Argentina's is even worse. And if any of the other major football powers were in better fitness Spain would have not won the Euro Cup. Italy was very close to scoring by the way through Camoranesi in that Italy vs Spain match...

They are underachieving... that's all I'm saying.


Players like aguero, di maria, buonanotte, impress me. I simply dont want them overlooked because they r argentinian. Talent is talent, I believe we should always have a base of italian players (we're not inter) and barring character problems... we should always strive to get the best players, no matter on nationality. not the best brazilians only

I'm only impressed by Aguero and maybe, just maybe, Di Maria... I'm not overlooking anyone because they are Argentine.. .yes I have a strong Brazil bias when it comes to Milan... but I do look at talent. Either way, we have an extensive recruitment system in Brazil.

But that doesn't mean we're only looking in Brazil... we also made two buys in Uruguay... that people seem to forget. I'm most excited about Cardacio and what he has to offer Milan in the future.

[Giancarlo]

Dunga critisized Pato's tactics and to politely put it his Immature understand of the game, which is normal at his age. Dunga didnt critisize his quality. Obviously pato has more quality then Sorbis, but Dunga needed a player who could lead the farward line, make runs, beat the offside trap ect ect.

Im not saying Dunga was right or wrong in his decision because im just an observer with limited knowledge of Futbal, while Dunga is an established manager and former Brazilian captain.

Dunga criticized his own player, and did not give him a chance. He was benched. It has nothing to do with immaturity. Hell, Pato is more mature for his age than other players his age. Dunga fielded a team that simply wasn't the best he could have (Thiago Silva vs Alex Silva for example).

Dunga is a fool. And you know... great former players aren't always great coaches.

[Milano84]

Dunga is a fool. And you know... great former players aren't always great coaches.


i think ruud guillitwould disagree with you :haha:

[Kerlz]

People forget Dunga had to revamp almost the entire brazilan squad. Its not easy to replace players like roberto carlos, cafu, Ronoldo ect. Only 3 players from Brazils 2005 world cup squad are still starters. While at the same time Ronoldinho's performance dropped and Adriano completely lost it. So Dunga has had to build a new team, even for Brazil thats a tough task to undertake and Credit to him hes made Brazil a more pragmatic team as well as more defensively organized.

[Giancarlo]

People forget Dunga had to revamp almost the entire brazilan squad. Its not easy to replace players like roberto carlos, cafu, Ronoldo ect. Only 3 players from Brazils 2005 world cup squad are still starters. While at the same time Ronoldinho's performance dropped and Adriano completely lost it. So Dunga has had to build a new team, even for Brazil thats a tough task to undertake and Credit to him hes made Brazil a more pragmatic team as well as more defensively organized.

Dunga has been a terrible coach, and if he revamped the squad, why did he not field Thiago Silva in the Olympics? His tactics are awful. Why can't you admit that? Or are you here just to start another argument? Dunga has an awful job "rebuilding" a team.

[Milano84]

Dunga has been a terrible coach, and if he revamped the squad, why did he not field Thiago Silva in the Olympics? His tactics are awful. Why can't you admit that? Or are you here just to start another argument? Dunga has an awful job "rebuilding" a team.


i'll agree w/ you there. When you look at the talent at his disposal i think its a litte 'overstated' to say he's rebuilding... like its so difficult to switch from adriano to robinho. Dunga opened the door to players like vagner love and elano from lesser known elague (at the time) and thats a good thing... but all and all he's been a bad coach. Tactically in olympics brazil looked lost. That shouldnt happen with thee lineup

point blank: he took a country that is constantly plays the most attractive football and made them very average.

[Giancarlo]

i'll agree w/ you there. When you look at the talent at his disposal i think its a litte 'overstated' to say he's rebuilding... like its so difficult to switch from adriano to robinho. Dunga opened the door to players like vagner love and elano from lesser known elague (at the time) and thats a good thing... but all and all he's been a bad coach. Tactically in olympics brazil looked lost. That shouldnt happen with thee lineup

point blank: he took a country that is constantly plays the most attractive football and made them very average.

Exactly...

And the Thiago Silva vs Alex Silva thing confuses me... everybody knows Thiago Silva is one of Brazil's better new defenders, and he only played one game in the Olympics...