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RE: Milan's Financial Position - Declare Variables Not War - 03-01-2020

From sportmediaset.mediaset.it

AC Milan's management is much more expensive than Inter and Juventus
  • Juventus: Nedved and Paratici's salaries: 1.7 million euros net per year
  • Inter: total 2,4 milioni for 0,7 Ausilio and 1,7 Marotta
  • Milan: total 6 milioni net per year for Ivan Gazidis (2 milioni), Zvonimir Boban (2 milioni), Paolo Maldini (1,3 milioni), Frederic Massara (0,7 milioni)



RE: Milan's Financial Position - ACM2022 - 03-01-2020

Maldini is the legend; Boban left the FIFA job for Milan. I think their salary isn't exactly outrageous. Gazidis is the one that wastes every penny.

Also, are you suggesting that 2-man team in Juventus and in Inter do the same job as the 4-man team at Milan? If so, it is a bit crazy. We should just get rid of Gazidis and Massara.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - porcho - 03-01-2020

(03-01-2020, 06:21 AM)ACM2020 Wrote: Maldini is the legend; Boban left the FIFA job for Milan. I think their salary isn't exactly outrageous. Gazidis is the one that wastes every penny.

Also, are you suggesting that 2-man team in Juventus and in Inter do the same job as the 4-man team at Milan? If so, it is a bit crazy. We should just get rid of Gazidis and Massara.

Even worse... a 2 man team at Juventus does a BETTER job than the 4-man team at Milan. 
We need Gazidis gone to be honest. Won't happen. Sadly looking like we'll end up losing Boban and Maldini instead.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - Nicolas - 03-01-2020

(03-01-2020, 06:21 AM)ACM2020 Wrote: Maldini is the legend; Boban left the FIFA job for Milan. I think their salary isn't exactly outrageous. Gazidis is the one that wastes every penny.

It shouldn’t really matter if Maldini is a legend, he clearly doesn't have experience needed for the job of Chief Sports Officer, which seems to be why they saw fit to spread out the responsibilities of that role and add Boban for his experience working in organs such as FIFA and Massara to have someone with experience of dealing with players, agents and clubs. In spite of Maldini’s obvious talent for spotting good players such as Theo, he clearly needs support from the rest of the team, and if he wasn’t Paolo Maldini there is no way he’d have such a high position at a club like Milan with next to none of the required qualifications.

Neither Boban or Maldini have the experience or skillset needed to be CEO of a club like Milan. A CEO needs to focus on the big picture, report to the owners, ensure that the financial prospects are reachable, set the course years ahead and steer the ship. I have no idea if Gazidis is good at his job, - and neither does the average football fan because the administration of the club in not supposed to be transparent. We do not know if Gazidis is the problem, but in this conflict it is easier to resent him than two beloved people like Maldini and Boban. However it does say something about his merits that an organisation such as Elliot, that is so focused on profit, seems to be continually backing him. They might not be nice people but there is no denying that they are excellent when it comes to running a business.

This club needs a CEO, be it Gazidis or someone even better else with the expertise - that is a given, but it cannot be either Maldini or Boban. It would only be natural for the owners to look into the roles of Maldini and Boban to see if it makes sense to replace them with one profile to fully assume the role of CSO, - especially if it looks like Elliot are forced to choose between Gazidis and Boban & Maldini.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - porcho - 03-01-2020

(03-01-2020, 11:08 PM)Nicolas Wrote: It shouldn’t really matter if Maldini is a legend, he clearly doesn't have experience needed for the job of Chief Sports Officer, which seems to be why they saw fit to spread out the responsibilities of that role and add Boban for his experience working in organs such as FIFA and Massara to have someone with experience of dealing with players, agents and clubs. In spite of Maldini’s obvious talent for spotting good players such as Theo, he clearly needs support from the rest of the team, and if he wasn’t Paolo Maldini there is SIMPLY no way he’d have such a high position at a club like Milan.

Neither Boban or Maldini have the experience or skillset needed to be CEO of a club like Milan. That is crystal clear just from their antics in the media regarding Rangnick. A CEO needs to focus on the big picture, report to the owners and steer the ship on a higher level. That is miles away from whatever Maldini or Boban are capable of at the moment. I have no idea if Gazidis is good at his job, - and neither does the average football fan because the administration of the club in not supposed to be transparent. We have no idea if Gazidis is the problem, but in this conflict it is easier to resent him than two beloved people like Maldini and Boban. However it does say something about his merits that an organisation such as Elliot, that is so focused on profit, seems to be continually backing him. They might not be nice people but there is no denying that they are excellent when it comes to running a business.

This club needs a CEO, be it Gazidis or someone even better else with the expertise - that is a given, but it cannot be either Maldini or Boban.

I would argue against this point. 

No good CEO would go behind the two guys he hired to approach a new coach. That and the fact we're still yet to see any positive change to revenue outside the sales of players and tightening of spending on player transfers and wages. 

We desperately need a good CEO to do his job properly. I have no issue with a CEO that gets involved in the football side but Gazidis does not have a good track record when it comes to building a successful club.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - Nicolas - 03-01-2020

(03-01-2020, 11:26 PM)porcho Wrote: I would argue against this point. 

No good CEO would go behind the two guys he hired to approach a new coach. That and the fact we're still yet to see any positive change to revenue outside the sales of players and tightening of spending on player transfers and wages. 

We desperately need a good CEO to do his job properly. I have no issue with a CEO that gets involved in the football side but Gazidis does not have a good track record when it comes to building a successful club.

Gazidis didn’t hire Maldini. He inherited Maldini, and as I stated above it seems like he hired Boban and Massara to help Maldini do his job. To me it looks like Gazidis and Elliot have gone out of their way financially to help Maldini succeed in the role, because of how much he means to the club and fans.

I love that Maldini is back at Milan, and I am not a fan of Gazidis - but there is only so much that a CEO can do revenue-wise in a year. He can’t go out on the street and sell season tickets himself, if Elliot won’t give him the money for buying established stars he has to focus on signing young players, if the team doesn’t qualify for Champions League then the club misses out in terms of potential income, and if the results on the field aren’t attractive for sponsors then you can’t fault him for that. If he is succesful then all of those things will change over time, but it is unreasonable to expect it to happen overnight, especially at a big machine like Milan with so many moving parts.

Gazidis’s main responsibility is to carry out the wishes of the board, and we all know that the goal is to increase the value of Milan over a short time. There is plenty of reason for him or anyone else in Elliot to go down a different route than what Maldini or Boban would like in the pursuit of our next manager. 
There is clearly a big divide between the route that Gazidis (and possibly the board) wants to take, and the one that Maldini and Boban prefers, - but that is normal for a club, what isn’t normal is for members of the manangement to air disagreements and dirty laundry in public.

If I were in the shoes of Paul Singer, I’d bet of Gazidis rather than Maldini and Boban. Maldini was allowed to pick a manager in Giampaolo and failed miserably at that attempt, and from the rumours it seems like him and Boban would prefer to retain Pioli or bring in someone like Allegri. The problem with that approach, is that it might take too long before the potential gains would come to fruition, and it might seem like an unambitious plan for potential buyers. Elliot’s timeframe is clearly a short one, so they need the club to show potential by upwards trajectories in terms of commercial deals, ticket sales or player values for and a project like the one described with Rangnick could offer more from the perspective of a potential buyer, because it would mean a modernisation of the club, a more streamlined approach know from the RB owned clubs and a higher emphasis of increasing player value. 

You say that Gazidis doesn’t have a good track record, but on paper his record is great in terms of finances. You can question if he was helped by circumstances at Arsenal and you could argue that any CEO could have achieved those results because of the financial upswing of the league in general. But what you cannot deny is that his track record is a hell of a lot better than that of Maldini and Boban in terms of running a club succesfully.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - porcho - 03-02-2020

(03-01-2020, 11:49 PM)Nicolas Wrote: Gazidis didn’t hire Maldini. He inherited Maldini, and as I stated above it seems like he hired Boban and Massara to help Maldini do his job. To me it looks like Gazidis and Elliot have gone out of their way financially to help Maldini succeed in the role, because of how much he means to the club and fans.

I love that Maldini is back at Milan, and I am not a fan of Gazidis - but there is only so much that a CEO can do revenue-wise in a year. He can’t go out on the street and sell season tickets himself, if Elliot won’t give him the money for buying established stars he has to focus on signing young players, if the team doesn’t qualify for Champions League then the club misses out in terms of potential income, and if the results on the field aren’t attractive for sponsors then you can’t fault him for that. If he is succesful then all of those things will change over time, but it is unreasonable to expect it to happen overnight, especially at a big machine like Milan with so many moving parts.

Gazidis’s main responsibility is to carry out the wishes of the board, and we all know that the goal is to increase the value of Milan over a short time. There is plenty of reason for him or anyone else in Elliot to go down a different route than what Maldini or Boban would like in the pursuit of our next manager. 
There is clearly a big divide between the route that Gazidis (and possibly the board) wants to take, and the one that Maldini and Boban prefers, - but that is normal for a club, what isn’t normal is for members of the manangement to air disagreements and dirty laundry in public.  

If I were in the shoes of Paul Singer, I’d bet of Gazidis rather than Maldini and Boban. Maldini was allowed to pick a manager in Giampaolo and failed miserably at that attempt, and from the rumours it seems like him and Boban would prefer to retain Pioli or bring in someone like Allegri. The problem with that approach, is that it might take too long before the potential gains would come to fruition, and it might seem like an unambitious plan for potential buyers. Elliot’s timeframe is clearly a short one, so they need the club to show potential by upwards trajectories in terms of commercial deals, ticket sales or player values for and a project like the one described with Rangnick could offer more from the perspective of a potential buyer, because it would mean a modernisation of the club, a more streamlined approach know from the RB owned clubs and a higher emphasis of increasing player value. 

You say that Gazidis doesn’t have a good track record, but on paper his record is great in terms of finances. You can question if he was helped by circumstances at Arsenal and you could argue that any CEO could have achieved those results because of the financial upswing of the league in general. But what you cannot deny is that his track record is a hell of a lot better than that of Maldini and Boban in terms of running a club succesfully.

I would add that making a club financially stable in the richest league in the world is far from running the club successfully. 
Arsenal has been MIA from the top teams list since then and all he did was have them profitable which isn't that impressive in the EPL.

I've said it before. it seems Gazidis has spent a lot of time getting involved in the football side and not a lot on the finances side. We've made less money so far on sponsorship deals this season despite the seemingly more stable Elliot ownership. I would have thought that someone with the contacts he has would have been able to secure us a few smaller type sponsorships. 

I forgot Maldini came before Gazidis, and I agree that we signed two people to attempt to make Maldini's stint a successful one but it also seems like we've got a CEO that seems to have held those three back. That team wanted more experience signed in the off season not just younger players and who knows how good/bad Giampaolo may have done with a couple more experienced players(I still think he would have failed). 

I don't know. Nothing about Gazidis fills me with any sort of confidence while I feel Maldini and Boban have shown some great signs with the deals made since they've come. 
Lets be honest... other than Giampaolo, what have they done wrong to be dumped after only 12 months?


RE: Milan's Financial Position - reza - 03-02-2020

Gazidis good or bad is being judged too early, we often talk about giving coaches time, for sure same must apply here. Gazidis' job is not easier than a coach, not at all. Early signs are not good but he needs time. About revenue and sponsorship it is not going to happen in a year, actually with the state of Serie A 3 years is still questionable. I said it before and I will say it again, transfer market creativity is needed, that means Maldini and Boban are responsible for 'no growth' too, Maldini needs to be doing lots of Theo type deals instead of being mad at Gazidis.
As far as a CEO goes, well he certainly is not obligated to tell Maldini and Boban what he is doing about Rangnick type situation. If there is a problem the problem is Gazidis telling B&M you have 100 million budget and then 2 months later making it 50 million. Did this happen? If yes Elliott must fix it and be more transparent.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - Nicolas - 03-02-2020

(03-02-2020, 12:25 AM)porcho Wrote: I would add that making a club financially stable in the richest league in the world is far from running the club successfully. 
Arsenal has been MIA from the top teams list since then and all he did was have them profitable which isn't that impressive in the EPL.

I've said it before. it seems Gazidis has spent a lot of time getting involved in the football side and not a lot on the finances side. We've made less money so far on sponsorship deals this season despite the seemingly more stable Elliot ownership. I would have thought that someone with the contacts he has would have been able to secure us a few smaller type sponsorships. 

I forgot Maldini came before Gazidis, and I agree that we signed two people to attempt to make Maldini's stint a successful one but it also seems like we've got a CEO that seems to have held those three back. That team wanted more experience signed in the off season not just younger players and who knows how good/bad Giampaolo may have done with a couple more experienced players(I still think he would have failed). 

I don't know. Nothing about Gazidis fills me with any sort of confidence while I feel Maldini and Boban have shown some great signs with the deals made since they've come. 
Lets be honest... other than Giampaolo, what have they done wrong to be dumped after only 12 months?

Again, I am not a fan of Gazidis, but would you honestly say that Elliot should rather trust Gazidis with his track record or Maldini & Boban with no track record in this conflict?

How would you imagine that Elliot’s ownership of Milan or Gazidis’ contacts alone would mean better sponsorship deals for the club? I’m personally surprised that any big company still finds the AC Milan brand attractive. We do not play particularly attractive football, we do not have a star studded squad and it has been a decade since we won anything of importance. We are simply not that interesting to sponsor, regardless of who our CEO is, because he cannot singlehandedly improve the marketing effect that sponsors would hope to gain from such deals.

I agree with you that it does seem like Gazidis and Maldini, Boban and Massara are pulling in opposite directions. It is not sustainable, and I’m personally of the opinion that Boban and to a certain extend Maldini is trying to make the conflict as public as possible for the fans to influence Elliot because of their status as legends. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gazidis hopes that Maldini and Boban would resign to spare him the headaches, but I don’t think that he or Elliot would dare to fire Maldini, as his return was a big coup for Elliot when they took over. If Rangnick would join in the role described in the media, someone of Maldini, Boban or Massara would be redundant and I wouldn’t be surprised to see both of Maldini and Boban choosing to leave as a result.

I don’t think that you can compare the effect of Gazidis with the effect of Maldini and Boban because the levers he pulls and changes he makes are not as clear to people on the outside, as those of Maldini and Boban are. The effects of most of what someone in his role is doing not will be clear immediately but down the line, so it is easier to be impressed by the actions of Maldini and Boban. However what they do is easier and their roles are more constrained.

I don’t think that they have done that much wrong during their time here, especially the signings over the summer and winter are commendable, so I wouldn’t fire them on that ground. However I do find the whole Giampaolo debacle a catastrophe on a level that made us look worse than when Inter hired Gasparini or De Boer. That error basically ruined our season and hopes of qualifying for the Champions League, - and I would have liked to see our squad in the hands of a better manager, signed in the summer instead of Giampaolo. He was a hopelessly uninspired choice from the very beginning.
I would like to see Maldini and Boban remain at Milan, but in limited roles, focused on player acquisition in collaboration with the manager, and that the manager would be chosen by someone higher up than Maldini and Boban. If they honestly think that retaining Pioli is a way to move this club forward in a meaningful way, then they shouldn’t have a say.


RE: Milan's Financial Position - porcho - 03-02-2020

(03-02-2020, 12:32 AM)reza Wrote: Gazidis good or bad is being judged too early, we often talk about giving coaches time, for sure same must apply here. Gazidis' job is not easier than a coach, not at all. Early signs are not good but he needs time. About revenue and sponsorship it is not going to happen in a year, actually with the state of Serie A 3 years is still questionable. I said it before and I will say it again, transfer market creativity is needed, that means Maldini and Boban are responsible for 'no growth' too, Maldini needs to be doing lots of Theo type deals instead of being mad at Gazidis.
As far as a CEO goes, well he certainly is not obligated to tell Maldini and Boban what he is doing about Rangnick type situation. If there is a problem the problem is Gazidis telling B&M you have 100 million budget and then 2 months later making it 50 million. Did this happen? If yes Elliott must fix it and be more transparent.

Fair call and I do agree to an extent but would have thought we'd have seen something. Not a new shirt sponsor for example but jsut something. Something to show that Milan is "back". Picking up a big brand even if the $ value was peanuts would do more for the club commercially than signing a big name or two. It would show the world that we're on the right track and might bring some other names to the table. 

Agreed with that. But Theo and Bennacer in one transfer window. That's already impressive in itself. 

Maybe not obligated but working with them would show something different to what we're seeing now. Currently we see a CEO working in one direction and the team below working in another. And if we see it, so does everyone else... including managers, potential players, player managers(more specifically the fat snake), and potential sponsors/investors. Boban may not have been right in going public but news of the divide was already public. They're just adding to the story. 

(03-02-2020, 12:47 AM)Nicolas Wrote: Again, I am not a fan of Gazidis, but would you honestly say that Elliot should rather trust Gazidis with his track record or Maldini & Boban with no track record in this conflict?

How would you imagine that Elliot’s ownership of Milan or Gazidis’ contacts alone would mean better sponsorship deals for the club? I’m personally surprised that any big company still finds the AC Milan brand attractive. We do not play particularly attractive football, we do not have a star studded squad and it has been a decade since we won anything of importance. We are simply not that interesting to sponsor, regardless of who our CEO is, because he cannot singlehandedly improve the marketing effect that sponsors would hope to gain from such deals.

I agree with you that it does seem like Gazidis and Maldini, Boban and Massara are pulling in opposite directions. It is not sustainable, and I’m personally of the opinion that Boban and to a certain extend Maldini is trying to make the conflict as public as possible for the fans to influence Elliot because of their status as legends. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gazidis hopes that Maldini and Boban would resign to spare him the headaches, but I don’t think that he or Elliot would dare to fire Maldini, as his return was a big coup for Elliot when they took over. If Rangnick would join in the role described in the media, someone of Maldini, Boban or Massara would be redundant and I wouldn’t be surprised to see both of Maldini and Boban choosing to leave as a result.

I don’t think that you can compare the effect of Gazidis with the effect of Maldini and Boban because the levers he pulls and changes he makes are not as clear to people on the outside, as those of Maldini and Boban are. The effects of most of what someone in his role is doing not will be clear immediately but down the line, so it is easier to be impressed by the actions of Maldini and Boban. However what they do is easier and their roles are more constrained.

I don’t think that they have done that much wrong during their time here, especially the signings over the summer and winter are commendable, so I wouldn’t fire them on that ground. However I do find the whole Giampaolo debacle a catastrophe on a level that made us look worse than when Inter hired Gasparini or De Boer. That error basically ruined our season and hopes of qualifying for the Champions League, - and I would have liked to see our squad in the hands of a better manager, signed in the summer instead of Giampaolo. He was a hopelessly uninspired choice from the very beginning.
I would like to see Maldini and Boban remain at Milan, but in limited roles, focused on player acquisition in collaboration with the manager, and that the manager would be chosen by someone higher up than Maldini and Boban. If they honestly think that retaining Pioli is a way to move this club forward in a meaningful way, then they shouldn’t have a say.

I'm not sure that's the case. I don't think they want to keep him but there is a way to go about things. He signed a contract that has an option to extend IF he makes certain objectives and Gazidis is already out shopping for a new coach. Doesn't mean we can't shop but we can't discount Pioli either until the season is done. Even if we have behind closed doors, we can't publicly because that, again, doesn't bode well for the future of anyone at the club. 

For the record, I actually like the idea of a Rangnick and going the patient route. I feel we've got the players suited for that appraoch and if we were to sign a couple more youngsters to go with what we have plus some experience in Thiago Silva and Modric, then we'd be very well placed to be the next "Liverpool". 

It's just the way it's all transpiring that I have an issue with. Where it seems like we're doing better on field and finding some stability there yet off field we're the same usual mess.