AC Milan Forums - Unofficial
AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - Printable Version

+- AC Milan Forums - Unofficial (http://www.milanmania.com/forum)
+-- Forum: AC MILAN (http://www.milanmania.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Games & Tactics (http://www.milanmania.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT (/showthread.php?tid=224)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - Mathias - 02-06-2012

(02-06-2012, 04:00 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Getting only a point from a possible six cannot be consider good result, even if the team is Barca.

I am not saying Ibra won Milan the League last season but he certainly played a huge part.

Is Ibra close to Van Basten or Sheva, hell no. But he is certainly the best striker Milan has post Sheva. Robinho can create no doubt but he can't finish. Cassano might never come back and SES is still unproven in my book.

It is really funny how some of you kept pointing finger at Ibra whenever Milan struggles while that is not fair at all. For starter, Milan struggles bc they lack quality players. Nocerino is a great workhorse but he is not Paul Scholes or Gerrard or Sneidjer or Ballack, who can move in from mid and score or dribble pass defenders or make a split pass. Aqua is solid but far from being WC. Slowdorf should only be brought in as an impact sub. Although Boateng is great for the side, and I love the way he plays, but is he really a top ACM? Urby is someone who should not even be on the bench.

Secondly, can you blame Allegri for relying on Ibra? As I said before, he is the best attacker Milan have at the moment or when they are at full strength.

Having said all that, I won't be piss if Ibra leaves this summer as long as proper replacements are made.

At the mean time, stop blaming player or players for Milan poor form unless it was their error, like Kaladze and Bonera.
He does yell at his teammates but I look at that as leadership more than anything.

The problem is noone points a finger at him, which (in my post,) I guess results in other team members being less motivated, interested even.
I concur with the fact that Ibra DID win us the scudetto because he had an AMAZING first half of the season. I am not saying other players were useless, but he shot on target most of the time and that's what wins you a scudetto. You can defend all you want but if you don't score you will end up playing 39 draws.


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - ACMILAN1983 - 02-06-2012

The result was fine given the circumstances and the performance was positive if we look at the whole game. Napoli created very little, despite Abate still not looking his best, while going forward we really started to improve in the second half.

The game was tight, with Napoli looking to hit us on the break (actually looking a little like the first leg this season). However, Napoli aren't a side built to sit deep and it showed, as their backline was often higher than expected and we only lacked a solid reference point up front during the first half to take advantage. In midfield we dominated despite injury problems and a packed schedule, while up front we still lacked the sharpness and improvisation which we were treated to last season. Pleasingly, despite Abate struggling it was nice to see a solid backline, with only Mexes (other than Abate) making a small mistake with missing a header.

The second half was a different affair. Ibra was given clear instruction to stay up field and hassle the Napoli backline, which he did with ease and was on the verge of scoring. Robinho too had a more set role, cutting in from the left given the space left when Maggio pushed up. This resulted in our game becoming more focused on set routes to goal, rather than "patiently" looking for an opening. Goalscoring chances started coming our way and a goal seemed inevitable. However, things don't always pan out as expected and that was definitely the case here, as the useless Rizzoli (and his band of inept officials) stopped play needlessly and then Ibra behaved like a petulent toddler and proceeded to slap Aronica. This essentially killed the tie, as all momentum was lost and we lost our reference point up front. Robinho put in a decent fight until he was subbed off, while Napoli were pretty useless against our 10 men.

There's a lot of debate/negative reaction around Allegri still, and while I understand this after the Lazio game, I don't really understand it here as we did very little wrong against Napoli tactically, and ultimately it was individual episodes (Robinho's miss and Ibra's slap) that resulted in us missing the win.

Players...

Abbiati/Amelia - Neither had much of anything to do
Abate - Has looked a little off defensively recently, mostly making individual mistakes and this match was another
Mexes - Sound game with few mistakes
Thiago - Probably the most solid player we have. Made a few driving runs to try and improve the team.
Antonini - Solid, but offers little going forward
Urby - Not a bad game really and definitely didn't deserve the diatribe Ibra sent his way, although he wasn't particularly brilliant
Van Bommel - One of our better performers of late, he's looking great compared to earlier this season
Nocerino - Tried to play his game, but wasn't all that influencial
Seedorf - Added little to really support our forward play.
Ibra - Was really good until he ruined all his work with stupid actions
Robinho - Poor first half, he returned more to being what he was last season in the second. Unfortunately, his finishing has remained the same the whole time.
Maxi - NA
Ambro - Added some solidity in midfield, but like Seedorf offered little

About Ibra, I'm really not sure what to think right now. On the one hand I think he's brilliant for us, yet on the other I feel he's the key reason this side is still being held back. It's true that Ibra lifts Milan and gets results, but it's also true that our side plays for Ibra and makes him perform better. My biggest worry is if he leaves, then there's a big risk we lose the winning mentality he brought last season. Ultimately, my dream is Pato taking on the role of really becoming a leader in this side, but as Maldini said not too long ago, it's not enough for him to rely on individual moments of brilliance to lift the team, he has to show the character, consistency and leadership to really lift the side. Before any of that can happen, he needs to stop getting injured.


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - LebRN - 02-06-2012

(02-06-2012, 04:00 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: ...
He does yell at his teammates but I look at that as leadership more than anything.

I cannot disagree more. A leader yells at his teammates and gets the best out of them and is respected. In Ibra's case, most end up performing even worse and the only thing i see is intimdation, not respect.

Regarding last season, when a player goes missing for a few months while others carry the team, when his number shows the exact same number of goals as the 2 other main strikers in the team (who played much less time), and as already mentioned, when you have the best defense in the league and probably one of the best DM last season in Van Bommel, you seriously cannot claim that Ibra won us the scudetto. He definitely had a major contribution, but so did Thiago Silva, Nesta, Van Bommel, and to lesser extent Abate, Pato, Cassano, Robinho, & Boateng...


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - ACM2021 - 02-06-2012

(02-06-2012, 09:53 PM)LebRN Wrote:
(02-06-2012, 04:00 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: ...
He does yell at his teammates but I look at that as leadership more than anything.

I cannot disagree more. A leader yells at his teammates and gets the best out of them and is respected. In Ibra's case, most end up performing even worse and the only thing i see is intimdation, not respect.

Regarding last season, when a player goes missing for a few months while others carry the team, when his number shows the exact same number of goals as the 2 other main strikers in the team (who played much less time), and as already mentioned, when you have the best defense in the league and probably one of the best DM last season in Van Bommel, you seriously cannot claim that Ibra won us the scudetto. He definitely had a major contribution, but so did Thiago Silva, Nesta, Van Bommel, and to lesser extent Abate, Pato, Cassano, Robinho, & Boateng...

Well said. Okmilan Maybe Ibrahimovic wants to be the leader (I am sure he does), but a true leader leads by example. Him getting three red cards in such a short period of time hurts the team, and if anything, provides a perfect example of what leaders should not do. Him constantly yelling at teammates says nothing but that he is an asshole. Big Grin

He should just shut up. People will respect him more that way. After all, he does score, assist, and proves important in this team.


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - ACMILAN1983 - 02-07-2012

(02-06-2012, 09:53 PM)LebRN Wrote:
(02-06-2012, 04:00 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: ...
He does yell at his teammates but I look at that as leadership more than anything.

I cannot disagree more. A leader yells at his teammates and gets the best out of them and is respected. In Ibra's case, most end up performing even worse and the only thing i see is intimdation, not respect.

Regarding last season, when a player goes missing for a few months while others carry the team, when his number shows the exact same number of goals as the 2 other main strikers in the team (who played much less time), and as already mentioned, when you have the best defense in the league and probably one of the best DM last season in Van Bommel, you seriously cannot claim that Ibra won us the scudetto. He definitely had a major contribution, but so did Thiago Silva, Nesta, Van Bommel, and to lesser extent Abate, Pato, Cassano, Robinho, & Boateng...

Agree completely. Ibra's only got one attractive personality trait as a footballer and that's his will to win. Beyond that, he's a complete ass. His book pretty much says it all, as his goal has always been about revenge on those he felt screwed him over. He knows full well he transmits a winning mentality, but the way he speaks it's as though that's all he does. On top of that, he's always seen himself as the star of his team, this is more than evident in his book.


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - Hasan Rossonero - 02-07-2012

(02-05-2012, 05:08 PM)fLame Wrote: Ibra is one of the biggest reasons why Pato gets worse and worse. We are wasting the world's best player because of this freak. Even Binho starts to look like crap cuz all of our play just MUST go through Ibra.

I understand you don't like Ibra. I understand you love Pato.

But Pato IS NOT the best player in the world. Did you mean to write that? Even a committed fan like you can see he isn't the best, surely? I think Pato can be criticized excessively at times, but let's not compensate by praising him excessively. Since Pato has been at Milan, he hasn't scored more than 15 goals during any one season. Ibra is already on 15 this season. He is just more decisive than a young, injury-prone Pato. Pato is good, but he is not great. Further, it's hard to build a team around a player who is rumoured not to get along with the coach, and who makes Jonathan Woodgate look robust.

As for Robinho sucking because of Ibra...what I remember from Napoli's game is that Ibrahimovic provided Robinho with an amazing chance...and Robinho, the profligate moron that he is, missed it.

And as for the other discussion, yes, as much as I like Ibrahimovic, he is unpleasant and selfish.




RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - fLame - 02-08-2012

(02-07-2012, 10:10 PM)Hasan Rossonero Wrote: I understand you don't like Ibra. I understand you love Pato.

But Pato IS NOT the best player in the world. Did you mean to write that? Even a committed fan like you can see he isn't the best, surely? I think Pato can be criticized excessively at times, but let's not compensate by praising him excessively. Since Pato has been at Milan, he hasn't scored more than 15 goals during any one season. Ibra is already on 15 this season. He is just more decisive than a young, injury-prone Pato. Pato is good, but he is not great. Further, it's hard to build a team around a player who is rumoured not to get along with the coach, and who makes Jonathan Woodgate look robust.

As for Robinho sucking because of Ibra...what I remember from Napoli's game is that Ibrahimovic provided Robinho with an amazing chance...and Robinho, the profligate moron that he is, missed it.

And as for the other discussion, yes, as much as I like Ibrahimovic, he is unpleasant and selfish.

What I meant to write was "best young player". And I don't hate Ibra, nor do I love pato.

And regarding Ibra, most of our fans seem to have the following attitude - "Ibra is a jerk and I don't like him personally, but as long as he provides results, I support him".

Well, if it wasn't evident before, the latest games are proving, that relying solely on Ibra leaves HUGE holes in our team. Like someone on here said - Milan at their best used to have 3-4 attacking outlets. Now we have 1 - Ibrahimovic. And with Ibrahimovic in the squad there can be no other way, because he has to be a "leader" and has to grab all the attention.

We will never win CL, if Ibra is our only great player, even in attack.
And as you can see, we are struggling to keep up with the title race.
Kudos to Juve for raising the bar in Serie A, no we can't win the title by outrunning a terribly out of form Inter.

Besides that, Ibra is 30. He can do 1-2 seasons max at high level and that's it.

That is why I want a new attacking line now, with Tevez or without Tevez.

And seriuosly, if we can't find the reason for Pato's injuries, it's better we just sell him and forget about it. In this form, not only is he useless to Milan, but he is sabotaging his own development.

I remember a huge spike in bitterness when we sold Gourcuff who started playing great all the sudden.
Now mark my words, as soon as Pato joins a team with competent medical stuff, the bitterness on here will sky rocket.


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - Gabriel426 - 02-10-2012

Agree Flame. It seems like the Ibra bashing only comes when the team struggles.

Personally, if Milan has better players like Hernanes instead of Aqua, and Rooney instead of Robinho(simply bc Rooney knows how to score). I doubt the team will play around Ibra. I don't blame Allegri for Ibra dependent b/c there is really no other players that he could rely on. Some say Pato and Robinho....but how can a coach build his team around someone who is injured every other 3 weeks.

On top of that, I think that kick the ball to Ibra and play off him comment is unfair considering the midfield in this game. None of them is someone who can drive the team up with his dribble or his passing.


RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - Hasan Rossonero - 02-10-2012

(02-08-2012, 11:15 AM)fLame Wrote:
(02-07-2012, 10:10 PM)Hasan Rossonero Wrote: I understand you don't like Ibra. I understand you love Pato.

But Pato IS NOT the best player in the world. Did you mean to write that? Even a committed fan like you can see he isn't the best, surely? I think Pato can be criticized excessively at times, but let's not compensate by praising him excessively. Since Pato has been at Milan, he hasn't scored more than 15 goals during any one season. Ibra is already on 15 this season. He is just more decisive than a young, injury-prone Pato. Pato is good, but he is not great. Further, it's hard to build a team around a player who is rumoured not to get along with the coach, and who makes Jonathan Woodgate look robust.

As for Robinho sucking because of Ibra...what I remember from Napoli's game is that Ibrahimovic provided Robinho with an amazing chance...and Robinho, the profligate moron that he is, missed it.

And as for the other discussion, yes, as much as I like Ibrahimovic, he is unpleasant and selfish.

What I meant to write was "best young player". And I don't hate Ibra, nor do I love pato.

And regarding Ibra, most of our fans seem to have the following attitude - "Ibra is a jerk and I don't like him personally, but as long as he provides results, I support him".

Well, if it wasn't evident before, the latest games are proving, that relying solely on Ibra leaves HUGE holes in our team. Like someone on here said - Milan at their best used to have 3-4 attacking outlets. Now we have 1 - Ibrahimovic. And with Ibrahimovic in the squad there can be no other way, because he has to be a "leader" and has to grab all the attention.

We will never win CL, if Ibra is our only great player, even in attack.
And as you can see, we are struggling to keep up with the title race.
Kudos to Juve for raising the bar in Serie A, no we can't win the title by outrunning a terribly out of form Inter.

Besides that, Ibra is 30. He can do 1-2 seasons max at high level and that's it.

That is why I want a new attacking line now, with Tevez or without Tevez.

And seriuosly, if we can't find the reason for Pato's injuries, it's better we just sell him and forget about it. In this form, not only is he useless to Milan, but he is sabotaging his own development.

I remember a huge spike in bitterness when we sold Gourcuff who started playing great all the sudden.
Now mark my words, as soon as Pato joins a team with competent medical stuff, the bitterness on here will sky rocket.

But is he the best young player in the world? Messi is only two years older than he is, while Neymar is being touted as the next best thing.

As for the attitude towards Ibra, he is a jerk, and he revels in that. As you know, he has won us so many games when there didn't seem a chance of any breakthroughs. Think of Genoa last year (the lob), or the penalty against Inter (won and scored), the bicycle-kick against Fiorentina etc. Last year, Ibra was as important to our Scudetto as anyone. Pato is simply not that decisive yet...partly because he is young, partly because he is perennially injured, and partly because he is not good enough yet. One can tolerate his antics if he delivers--and he helped tremendously to deliver our first Scudetto in 7 years.

It is still to be proven that Ibra is actually a hindrance to our team in the CL. He may have restricted play in his previous teams, but we didn't lose the CL last year because of Ibra...we lost it because Yepes was beaten for pace, and Robinho couldn't hit a herd of wading buffalo. That is, to expect Ibra to come out and put in a virtuoso performance in the CL is understandable, but far more demanding than asking the rest of our team to do the basics right.

As for Milanlab...yes, its track record is absymal. But I am not a doctor, and I don't know the ins and outs of the thing beyond what I've read, so I can't comment on that.

Finally, yes, we need another player to lead our line because Ibra is getting older.





RE: AC Milan vs Napoli (5-02-2012) 19:45 GMT, switched to 14:00GMT - Sputnik - 02-10-2012

(02-10-2012, 04:24 PM)Hasan Rossonero Wrote:
(02-08-2012, 11:15 AM)fLame Wrote: What I meant to write was "best young player". And I don't hate Ibra, nor do I love pato.

And regarding Ibra, most of our fans seem to have the following attitude - "Ibra is a jerk and I don't like him personally, but as long as he provides results, I support him".

Well, if it wasn't evident before, the latest games are proving, that relying solely on Ibra leaves HUGE holes in our team. Like someone on here said - Milan at their best used to have 3-4 attacking outlets. Now we have 1 - Ibrahimovic. And with Ibrahimovic in the squad there can be no other way, because he has to be a "leader" and has to grab all the attention.

We will never win CL, if Ibra is our only great player, even in attack.
And as you can see, we are struggling to keep up with the title race.
Kudos to Juve for raising the bar in Serie A, no we can't win the title by outrunning a terribly out of form Inter.

Besides that, Ibra is 30. He can do 1-2 seasons max at high level and that's it.

That is why I want a new attacking line now, with Tevez or without Tevez.

And seriuosly, if we can't find the reason for Pato's injuries, it's better we just sell him and forget about it. In this form, not only is he useless to Milan, but he is sabotaging his own development.

I remember a huge spike in bitterness when we sold Gourcuff who started playing great all the sudden.
Now mark my words, as soon as Pato joins a team with competent medical stuff, the bitterness on here will sky rocket.

But is he the best young player in the world? Messi is only two years older than he is, while Neymar is being touted as the next best thing.

As for the attitude towards Ibra, he is a jerk, and he revels in that. As you know, he has won us so many games when there didn't seem a chance of any breakthroughs. Think of Genoa last year (the lob), or the penalty against Inter (won and scored), the bicycle-kick against Fiorentina etc. Last year, Ibra was as important to our Scudetto as anyone. Pato is simply not that decisive yet...partly because he is young, partly because he is perennially injured, and partly because he is not good enough yet. One can tolerate his antics if he delivers--and he helped tremendously to deliver our first Scudetto in 7 years.

It is still to be proven that Ibra is actually a hindrance to our team in the CL. He may have restricted play in his previous teams, but we didn't lose the CL last year because of Ibra...we lost it because Yepes was beaten for pace, and Robinho couldn't hit a herd of wading buffalo. That is, to expect Ibra to come out and put in a virtuoso performance in the CL is understandable, but far more demanding than asking the rest of our team to do the basics right.

As for Milanlab...yes, its track record is absymal. But I am not a doctor, and I don't know the ins and outs of the thing beyond what I've read, so I can't comment on that.

Finally, yes, we need another player to lead our line because Ibra is getting older.

this.