04-13-2011, 03:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2011, 03:45 PM by Ca Rossonero.)
(04-13-2011, 07:58 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Lastly, he might not have great stats since Jan, but he has been working hard on the pitch.
I can't agree with this. Maybe I'm bias (I was at bari game, were he got carded). It was possibly the worst individual display I've EVER seen from a person. Walking, screaming, cussing out Pato who was working ten as hard. Never making runs for his teammates etc.
Since january he generally hasn't worked very hard. Fatigue or not, he's reverted mostly back to slow static lazy player who played for himself and looked to create something out of nothing on a ibra-long ball, instead of interplay w/ his teammates. Only in first half v. fiorentina was he showing a change and then what happened.
I do think there is a legitimate argument he slows down our attack. But he also does create opportunities few others can.
At the end of the day, as great a player as he is, his wages are simply unjustified. On par with Messi and Ronaldo's Eto'o of the world he's just not that decisive. He could be, not mentally he hasn't ever proven to be. And approaching 30 will it get better?
It's frustrating. But maybe what frustrates me most is his automatic first team 90 minute player position. We can do things without him. He doesn't NEED to play always, even though he gives certain qualities. Like hitman said, it's a shame robinho never got on... BUT like i previously said, the way he's paid, you'd expect us to not be able to get on so well without him, right? That's not the case
Sahin might be lost cause. Mourinho likes him. He's friends with Ozil. Then again, he spoke specifically of Boateng..... Still I don't like idea of entering a bidding war with Madrid.
Also:
http://www.totalfootballmadness.com/2011...on-farfan/
Braida spoke to Giacomo Petralito, an intermediary on the german market about Farfan. Farfan expires next summer so he could be had cheaper. But I wonder if they discussed other possible targets. Just like everyone thought we were scouting ajax for vertonghen and we got urby?
What would Farfan give us? He plays mostly a right sided wing role. I guess more reason to speculate we might be looking to go to to a 4-2-3-1?
not to defend Ibra or anything, but comparing him to Messi and Ronaldo who score game in and game out in a soft league, with no proper defenders is ridiculous, as I believe they can't handle the tackling in Serie A(which, btw has the best defensive tactics)..... and we have seen players getting injured by the hard tackling in Serie A, let him be defender, Medfielder or a goalkeeper... now think about a Messi or a Ronaldo playing in Serie A what would happen to them??
Eto'o plays simple football, one-two passes to good effect he never showcase his tricks in a match... and also, ref won't help them out either unless you play for Inter that is... 
so yeah, let's get it over with this Messi and Ronaldo are better than Ibra or w/e you want
@Geotav, mate, What do you think about Yohan Cabaye? He can do good job at left of midfield trio?
ibra always played with strong players, at inter he played with Adriano, Cruz and Crespo e.t.c. it also can be a factor for him, now all defenders focus on him and play on him...
Lets not forget, İbra got a red vs Bari cuz he was provoked. They did everything, fouling in the box, keeping his shirt, playing dirty...everything...also considering Rossi had same episodes with other players... (same kind of reactions) so lets not blame ibra that much. it can happen to anyone...
Regarding last game, maybe lets do a Pato-ibra comprasion...Pato scored 2 goals vs inter. That was 2 great goals cuz we got 3 points...But They were easy goals... Thanks to Robinho's and Abate's efforts) Pato missed clear chances, he lost 1 on 1 chance becuz he couldnt shield the ball from Zanetti, cuz he didnt use his body well...he could have shooted and could have scored but he waited for Boateng...He was free but waited 5 inters defenders came and passed the ball to Boateng...
i saw better games of Pato, as he toyed inter's all defence...Remember a game? Adriano scored with a hand ball, we lost 2-1 to them... He was alone awesome...Pato lately lose the ball much on dribbling...He used to dribble 3-4 players...maybe more...But right now, he is at right place at right time...and scoring goals...For instance Pato's goal vs Cagliari or Chievo was awesome...was a hard goal to score...dribbled past 2 defenders and scored it... im expecting from him to score same kind of goals...at least should try for them...
Regarding the last game, ibra was important for second goal...Pato missed 2 easy chances too. Weaker shoots...
ibra formed a great partnership with Boateng and Robinho...
im still saying that Pato needs to improve on decisions and he must use his body well...Above all he needs to improve overall game...i wanna see a Pato who can carry Milan on his shoulders without injuries, class goals, fantastic dribblings...pato on ball, he is more talented than Kaka... Pato can do a 30 goals effect to us... but now we need ibra...
04-13-2011, 04:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2011, 05:02 PM by Ca Rossonero.)
(04-13-2011, 04:31 PM)abbeyleemania Wrote: @Geotav, mate, What do you think about Yohan Cabaye? He can do good job at left of midfield trio?
ibra always played with strong players, at inter he played with Adriano, Cruz and Crespo e.t.c. it also can be a factor for him, now all defenders focus on him and play on him...
Lets not forget, İbra got a red vs Bari cuz he was provoked. They did everything, fouling in the box, keeping his shirt, playing dirty...everything...also considering Rossi had same episodes with other players... (same kind of reactions) so lets not blame ibra that much. it can happen to anyone...
Regarding last game, maybe lets do a Pato-ibra comprasion...Pato scored 2 goals vs inter. That was 2 great goals cuz we got 3 points...But They were easy goals... Thanks to Robinho's and Abate's efforts) Pato missed clear chances, he lost 1 on 1 chance becuz he couldnt shield the ball from Zanetti, cuz he didnt use his body well...he could have shooted and could have scored but he waited for Boateng...He was free but waited 5 inters defenders came and passed the ball to Boateng...
i saw better games of Pato, as he toyed inter's all defence...Remember a game? Adriano scored with a hand ball, we lost 2-1 to them... He was alone awesome...Pato lately lose the ball much on dribbling...He used to dribble 3-4 players...maybe more...But right now, he is at right place at right time...and scoring goals...For instance Pato's goal vs Cagliari or Chievo was awesome...was a hard goal to score...dribbled past 2 defenders and scored it... im expecting from him to score same kind of goals...at least should try for them...
Regarding the last game, ibra was important for second goal...Pato missed 2 easy chances too. Weaker shoots...
ibra formed a great partnership with Boateng and Robinho...
im still saying that Pato needs to improve on decisions and he must use his body well...Above all he needs to improve overall game...i wanna see a Pato who can carry Milan on his shoulders without injuries, class goals, fantastic dribblings...pato on ball, he is more talented than Kaka... Pato can do a 30 goals effect to us... but now we need ibra...
I think it's unfair to say that. Pato is most clinical striker in Serie A. That's a fact. Even when he was 'struggling' he was scoring at a record amount. Don't believe me? Let's look at his numbers compared to top serie A strikers:
Pato- 1386 mins, 58 shots, 14 goals... Goal every 99 minutes and 4.1 shots
Zlatan- 2443 mins, 114 shots, 14 goals.... Goal every 175 minutes and 8.1 shots
Di natale- 2571 mins, 132 shots, 26 goals.... Goal every 99 minutes and 5.1 shots
Cavani- 2558 mins, 109 shots, 25 goals.... Goal every 102 minutes and 4.4 shots
Etoo- 2529 mins, 107 shots, 19 goals.... Goal every 133 minutes and 5.7 shots
Now two things to note:
1) Pato is only player not to take PKs. If I took out PKs there numbers would all look worse compared to the duck
2) Zlatan has 11 assists. While Di Natale/Cavani and Etoo do have some assists, they don't have 11.
Point being. Pato is a natural #9 and needs to embrace it. We need it built into our team too. I'm gonna steal this from a blog I read but think of him more as pippo with technique, flair and killer pace. Not ronaldo/sheva etc.
So it's not surprising v. Inter he found 2 goals w/ Robinho behind him.
Secondly, v. Inter we played a lightning attack, which killed Leo's stupid tactics (yes a high line with 4 slow defenders is very stupid, especially if your midfield can't retain possession and you go w/ a 4-2-crazy formation). Those chances Pato and Robinho got, were THERE OWN. Zlatan is not as fast, nor as direct a player. He wouldn't have gotten those opportunities.
Similar to how he can bat a ball down and hold up on 2 defenders, that would be an opportunity Pato would never get.
I should also point out the Zlatan-Pato partnership 'problems'. That's a) overblown and b) mostly on Zlatan or Allegri. A) in games they've played together zlatan hasn't scored well... that's undeniable, but upon my last check he has 8-9 assists in those games. Pato on otherhand has a rate of a near goal per game. It's a different look....
The flaws have come when Zlatan plays way ahead of Pato, and thus is a waste. Pato's not a good passer, which is fine, because thats not his role. He's not a second striker despite his desires. He needs to be uptop, use his instincts and kill. His movement is also HIGHLY underrated. Watch him off ball, he toys w/ defenders going side to side, making runs etc. Things Zlatan DOESNT do.
Point being, there's more than one way to win. We need to stop 'building around Zlatan'. He either needs to learn to be a cog in a machine (making us more dynamic, which is main reason we lost in UCL, lack of dynamism upfront because everything went THRU Zlatan) or needs to go.
His talent is undeniable, his only flaw is between his ears
(04-13-2011, 03:58 PM)Ace Wrote: not to defend Ibra or anything, but comparing him to Messi and Ronaldo who score game in and game out in a soft league, with no proper defenders is ridiculous, as I believe they can't handle the tackling in Serie A(which, btw has the best defensive tactics)..... and we have seen players getting injured by the hard tackling in Serie A, let him be defender, Medfielder or a goalkeeper... now think about a Messi or a Ronaldo playing in Serie A what would happen to them??
Eto'o plays simple football, one-two passes to good effect he never showcase his tricks in a match... and also, ref won't help them out either unless you play for Inter that is...
so yeah, let's get it over with this Messi and Ronaldo are better than Ibra or w/e you want
Really?
So why did Zlatan score less goals than both Ronaldo and Messi last year IN LA LIGA? I mean Ron played less games and was also in his first year, played a deeper position and still scored more. This isn't a knock on Zlatan, but Ron and Messi are a level above. Zlatan has talent to be on that level, but like I said, it's all in his head. There's no problem with his abilities.
I have no doubt Ronaldo and Messi would score less in Serie a. But to think they wouldn't be automatically best attacker in league is just silly. They particularly would earn a ridiculous amount of PKs (like kaka used to). Maybe Messi would only get 15 or so from open play (though the way Di Natale and other small strikers score at will suggests otherwise) but he'd earn 10+ pks not to mention assists.
Let's not forget, Messi is also one of most clinical players in world. Look at his goals v. shots total. He may not have Ron's power, but he slots ball perfectly.
As for Etoo. I don't get this. What else does he have to prove? Just cause he's rarely fancy doesn't mean he's not best #9 in world (sorry Zlatan). He's proven it time and time again. Gimme an Etoo anyday. That's my hope for Pato, to become that type of player. He's well on his way
@CaRossonero
Ibrahimovic suffered a spate of problems mid-way through his first season at Barcelona. To name a couple, he didn't get along with Pep, and Barcelona was rightly built to play around the talent of Leo Messi.
I have sympathy with some of your points, and I also have long had reservations about Ibra's temperament to be a match-winner, but it is important to contextualize Ibra's year at Barcelona.
(04-12-2011, 11:50 PM)GeoTav Wrote: (04-12-2011, 11:09 PM)ElMago99 Wrote: I've been away awhile guys, can someone summarize transfer speculation in past week. I ready somewhere in an Italian article that Milan want to implement a 4-2-3-1 next year for Champions League, and want Ronaldo:
-----------Pato--------------
CR7----Ganso-----Robinho
Are there rumors about this? Also, what's story with Ibra? Any news on a LB? or a CDM?
The last rumours of coming players are:
- Ganso (Braida negotiating for his transfer nowadays after Ganso refused a renewal from Santos - Santos against Milan and Inter and complaining to UEFA/FIFA about the behaviour of the two clubs: what is true ?)
- Mexes (done deal ?)
- Astori (nothing really new)
- Hernanes (he would be a target among others)
- Ronaldo (Berlusconi dreaming)
- Robben (depending on the result of Bayern regarding their qualification in CL next year)
The last rumours about our current players are:
- Ibra maybe being sold (but the player stated he would be a Milan player next season)
- Robinho confirmed and apreciated by Berlusconi
- Pirlo (nothing new)
- Papa maybe sold (there would be an offer)
- Seedorf between Brazil, Manchester City and a new contract in Milan (he said he'd like a new contract)
- Gattuso (nothing new - Russian offer)
- Ambrosini (nothing new)
- Nesta joking with Galliani during a training session when Galliani asked him if he would agree to renew (Nesta would have replied "why did Mexes just get 4.5M and you offer me only 2.5M ?!" with the smile)
Anyway, that's a good thing from the management to have stated earlier that the renewals would be given to some of the players at the end of the season, forcing them to play at their best until the end ...
The consequence is we have no idea what will really happen in a few weeks ...
Thanks Geo, and very funny about Nesta..
Go Schalke go!!!
"When Costacurta and Maldini won they didn't celebrate much. They were thinking about winning the next game" - Alessandro Nesta
Quick question regards Ibra's deal. Do we have to buy him in the summer (i.e. it is in the contract we must complete the sale) or is it just an option we have to take him if we choose?
(04-13-2011, 06:35 PM)Hasan Rossonero Wrote: @CaRossonero
Ibrahimovic suffered a spate of problems mid-way through his first season at Barcelona. To name a couple, he didn't get along with Pep, and Barcelona was rightly built to play around the talent of Leo Messi.
I have sympathy with some of your points, and I also have long had reservations about Ibra's temperament to be a match-winner, but it is important to contextualize Ibra's year at Barcelona.
I am not defending or attacking Ibra. I'm simply commenting on the situation.
I like Ibra as a player when he's on. He's truly unique and world class. But one can't overlook all his flaws and consider the considerable investment he costs....
Ibra is a great player apart from slowing down our play, i love ibra. I read on milannews.it that city are gna unload dzeko and balotelli this summer.. possible dzeko+balo for ibra:O
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