Summer Mercato 2011

[Best-Pundit]

I don't why what problem fans here have with Flamini? What else you expect from him? He is a player who does the dirty job in the midfield like Bushquets. So why he should be sold? Him and Boateng are the future of ACM midfield

[Hasan Rossonero]

personally i think you all overestimate milans spending power. Milans earnings are published yearly and so are their wages. Milans wage bill is on par with madrid/barca and co. While they earn less than arsenal, bayern etc.

This is my biggest issue with galliani, he renews too many players and gives poor wages. Like it or not serie a is 3rd/4th tier monetarily. Milan are still a big name but must be RESPONSIBLE with there money. This means no 5 mil wages to flamini, no keeping oddo/janku cause they are 'family' and no overspending.

Milan are generally poorly run. I love galliani, but he thinks too much with his heart and too little with his head. Our payroll is 130 mil+ after taxes. Do we have a roster which justifies that? Nah.

Depends on what you mean.

If you mean the big 3 earn less than the top duo in La Liga and the bigger 3 in Prem (Chelsea, Man U, and Arsenal), then yes that is true. They do.

However, Serie A is the second highest league in terms of collective revenue generation. They are only behind Prem in that regard.

Give you an example...do you know Napoli earn something like 100 million euros a year in revenue (without CL)? (source: world soccer) That is more than many La Liga and Bundesliga clubs.

If Berlu wanted to he could spend. Even with financial fair play rules, there must be ways to generate revenues from income sources over which Berlusconi has control. Juve are about to do it next year. They are also the first Serie A club to have their own stadium (unveiling next season). I expect them to be the financial force in Italy within 3-4 years given the new financial fair play rules that are coming into play.

If Berlusconi and his family don't renounce this fiscal responsibility facade, then we may really slip out of reckoning. The question is do the Berlusconis have the will, not the capacity, to invest? I honestly don't know the answer.

Berlusconi has become a caricature, a depraved laughing stock; further, his children don't look overly sentimental for Milan (Barbara's fling with Pato notwithstanding). With Moratti you know what you're going to get. With Berlusconi, you just don't know.

[Ca Rossonero]

Well that's true Hassan Minus the big two in spain the rest earn far less than average Serie A team

Here's most recent revenue rankings:
http://www.caughtoffside.com/2011/02/10/...est-clubs/

If I can find it, I have the world soccer too issue which has it expanded (if I can I'll pdf it and post it)

As I recall past 20, you see majority german and english teams. Napoli, Lazio, fiorentina mix in too, but it's still heavier on those leagues.

Anyway back to the original point. Milan has to cut there wage bill a bit if they want to be spenders in market w/o 'berlusconi gifts'. We simply overpay for a roster of players who aren't as good as their wages. But monetarily we can't compete with Spain's big two.

Also, the other issue is the San Siro. Bayern (for ex.) earns money through there stadium on non-football related events too. But what we lose in paying to rent, and in lack of gate receits (we give back portion to milan) is a lot bigger than you'd think. If Milan owned san siro they might be making potentially 50 mil more a year according to some estimates.


And you never know, it could be greater? Look at Arsenal. The Emirates opened in 2006 (they are still paying it off but compare 2005/6, the year they went to UCL final!) v. 06/07 and beyond:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Fo...309_season

2005/6: 177 mil
2006/7: 264 mil
2007/8: 263.9 mil
2008/9: 263 mil
2009/10: 274.1 mil

That's a huge increase in revenue buy building a modernized stadium, with luxury suits, amenities, new sponsorship. Though they did move out of highbury which was only 40k? It's not unrealistic to think if Milan had there own stadium (be it a remodelled version of san siro or something new), with there fanbase and money in milan (for potential luxury suites) Milan could make 300 million+.

[Hasan Rossonero]

Well that's true Hassan Minus the big two in spain the rest earn far less than average Serie A team


Also, the other issue is the San Siro. Bayern (for ex.) earns money through there stadium on non-football related events too. But what we lose in paying to rent, and in lack of gate receits (we give back portion to milan) is a lot bigger than you'd think. If Milan owned san siro they might be making 25 to potentially 50 mil more a year according to some estimates.

Oh I don't underestimate it at all my friend. In fact, I have been clamouring for the need to expand our portfolio.

That would also require a vast structural change, and, again, willingness to invest in a stadium. Berlusconi is unwilling to do that, it seems. City councils won't let go. In the current climate, we cannot expand our financial portfolio.

And, thanks to Platini, we cannot rely on owners to compensate.

[Ca Rossonero]

Well that's true Hassan Minus the big two in spain the rest earn far less than average Serie A team


Also, the other issue is the San Siro. Bayern (for ex.) earns money through there stadium on non-football related events too. But what we lose in paying to rent, and in lack of gate receits (we give back portion to milan) is a lot bigger than you'd think. If Milan owned san siro they might be making 25 to potentially 50 mil more a year according to some estimates.

Oh I don't underestimate it at all my friend. In fact, I have been clamouring for the need to expand our portfolio.

That would also require a vast structural change, and, again, willingness to invest in a stadium. Berlusconi is unwilling to do that, it seems. City councils won't let go. In the current climate, we cannot expand our financial portfolio.

And, thanks to Platini, we cannot rely on owners to compensate.

If I remember correctly, Berlusconi has said he's willing to. He'd make a lot of money long term. It's a smart move. It's the CITY who won't do it.

Why would they, they are making a killing off Milan and inter. The arrangement benefits them first and foremost.

That + construction in italy is a bigger nightmare than most of western world, lol.

On a sidenote: Sensi tried to do this for a while with Roma but failed. New owner, DI Bennetto is committed to. For them it could be what they need to actually financially compete with Italy's big 3 earners.

[Hasan Rossonero]

Oh I don't underestimate it at all my friend. In fact, I have been clamouring for the need to expand our portfolio.

That would also require a vast structural change, and, again, willingness to invest in a stadium. Berlusconi is unwilling to do that, it seems. City councils won't let go. In the current climate, we cannot expand our financial portfolio.

And, thanks to Platini, we cannot rely on owners to compensate.

If I remember correctly, Berlusconi has said he's willing to. He'd make a lot of money long term. It's a smart move. It's the CITY who won't do it.

Why would they, they are making a killing off Milan and inter. The arrangement benefits them first and foremost.

That + construction in italy is a bigger nightmare than most of western world, lol.

On a sidenote: Sensi tried to do this for a while with Roma but failed. New owner, DI Bennetto is committed to. For them it could be what they need to actually financially compete with Italy's big 3 earners.

I think if Berlusconi really wanted to he would. Not for the first time, he has relied on a strategy where he blames outside forces. Taxes is his other favourite. Owners who want to make things happen do. I'm sure city councils are obdurately committed to keeping the stadium, so then look at other avenues.

There were thoughts to have a stadium in the outskirts, but it petered out. As usual. Juve owners wanted to make it happen, and they did. Granted their Delle Alpi stadium wasn't exactly a stadium which made it possible to watch games...

[Ca Rossonero]

Not always that easy. Turin city council supported the building of a new stadium. Construction is not that easy on that scale. Especially when City won't approve you buying San Siro. Other options are developing a stadium outside city, which is not really a good option (do you want AC Milan to play in como or malpensa?). The factors are a problem.

It's a lame argument to say 'if berlu wants to he can'. Doesn't always hold water. He's not stalin in the ussr.

[Hasan Rossonero]

Not always that easy. Turin city council supported the building of a new stadium. Construction is not that easy on that scale. Especially when City won't approve you buying San Siro. Other options are developing a stadium outside city, which is not really a good option (do you want AC Milan to play in como or malpensa?). The factors are a problem.

It's a lame argument to say 'if berlu wants to he can'. Doesn't always hold water. He's not stalin in the ussr.

Almost as lame as relying on the tired USSR clichés.

Look I'm with you man. The bureaucratic listlessness in the country prevents many things from happening.

I've followed Berlusconi's career quite closely. Since I'm conversant with Italian, I have also read a ton of literature on him as well. I see where you're coming from, and all of what you say is actually very reasonable.

But it's the will that counts in this case. Berlusconi has led innovation in football for a long time. It was through his ingenuity (and avarice if you're someone like Ascoli) that the top 3 clubs got the biggest share of TV revenues in the late 1990s (and of course the smallest got peanuts).

Berlusconi has been hands-off for a long time now. After the Sheva sale, things have changed at our club. The replacements since, Kaka's sale etc. are an indication that Berlu has stopped caring as much. It is this will that worries me.

And his progeny have been talking about fiscal rectitude etc. That's all fine and dandy, but there are ways to be solvent AND financially competitive.

Let's say that you're right. Berlusconi cannot push for the construction of a new stadium. Fine. I have my doubts, but let's leave that aside.

Why are he and Galliani the ones to rely on the "woe is me" routine when talking about the financial fair play rules? Other owners are facing these hardships too. You don't see Abramovich running for the hills. This stadium thing has been in discussion, in vigorous discussion at least, since 2004. What has come of it?

When a person like Berlusconi wants to do something he does it quietly, or at his villa. I want the best for my club too, and I really hope Berlusconi reads the discussion you and I are having and takes it seriously.

Let's see what happens. This summer was a step in the right direction at least.

[Ca Rossonero]

I guess I should clarify my position (I have a bad habit of thinking people can read my mind).....

Milan COULD build a new stadium. But, getting land in the city of Milan is near impossible (I mean where, if you've been it's not like there's a large open space anywhere in the city. MAYBE on the outskirts). Secondly, I doubt they want to build a new stadium. They want to purchase the San Siro. The city won't sell it's that simple. Why would the city sell it? They got an excellent deal going. Not only do they make 6 mil a year on rent, but the collect a chunk of gate receipts and milan/inter are responsible for maintenance?! Not to mention, all concerts/shows which happen, city makes money, Milan makes zero.

The talk has always been Inter develop a stadium outside Milan (since most of there players bar zanetti, materazzi, cordoba and a few others, live in Como near their training facility) and Milan find a way to purchase San Siro.

Having observed development of new stadiums elsewhere and personally working in construction industry, you have to realize, it does take a lot of time. Finding land, environmental studies, city approval. That takes years before you even break ground. Look at liverpool and chelsea. both want new stadiums, but nothing has happened. Took Valencia so long before they got plans going. And Italy is generally less evolved in that regard than England/Spain

But I don't buy Berlusconi doesn't want to. If he's first and foremost motivated by money, the stadium is a no brainer. He'd make 3 times as much in the long run.

[Hasan Rossonero]

I guess I should clarify my position (I have a bad habit of thinking people can read my mind).....

Milan COULD build a new stadium. But, getting land in the city of Milan is near impossible (I mean where, if you've been it's not like there's a large open space anywhere in the city. MAYBE on the outskirts). Secondly, I doubt they want to build a new stadium. They want to purchase the San Siro. The city won't sell it's that simple. Why would the city sell it? They got an excellent deal going. Not only do they make 6 mil a year on rent, but the collect a chunk of gate receipts and milan/inter are responsible for maintenance?! Not to mention, all concerts/shows which happen, city makes money, Milan makes zero.

The talk has always been Inter develop a stadium outside Milan (since most of there players bar zanetti, materazzi, cordoba and a few others, live in Como near their training facility) and Milan find a way to purchase San Siro.

Having observed development of new stadiums elsewhere and personally working in construction industry, you have to realize, it does take a lot of time. Finding land, environmental studies, city approval. That takes years before you even break ground. Look at liverpool and chelsea. both want new stadiums, but nothing has happened. Took Valencia so long before they got plans going. And Italy is generally less evolved in that regard than England/Spain

But I don't buy Berlusconi doesn't want to. If he's first and foremost motivated by money, the stadium is a no brainer. He'd make 3 times as much in the long run.

Good post. Fair enough. I was referring to pushing for it a bit more than he has.

As for making money off of Milan...Berlusconi doesn't make money off of Milan. He makes political capital off of Milan. I have no doubt he loves the club, but his vast fortune doesn't really need Milan to be profitable.

A new stadium would be beneficial regardless. Winning hosting rights for Euro2012 would have helped also because at the very least San Siro would have been rejuvenated through govt. investment. Italy is worryingly behind in the stadium stakes.