Winter Mercato 2014

[ACMILAN1983]

honsano, I came across this just now:

http://www.milannews.it/primo-piano/raio...eae-132341

And I thought I was pessimistic....

This is the most pessimistic and negative opinion, ever lol.

How can anyone on this planet claim the Ibrahimovic deal was anything less than excellent? You say it's not good because of the cost, but you are only rating the incoming transfers, and totally ignoring the outgoing transfers. IMO, selling Ibra, Cassano, Boateng and Silva were great transfers if you consider the price we got for them.

Other deals were you are completely, unquestionably wrong in your ratings:
Van Bommel, Cassano, Robinho, Mexes, Balotelli, Gabriel (only one which I think you've overrated, I think he's been poor, keeping in mind he used a Non-EU spot. These are the only ones which you totally got wrong in my opinion, not even mentioning the others which I think are debatable.

Not to mention, how could you rate the following transfers as poor, you've never seen them play! Filkor, Daminunta, Ghiringhelli, Novinic, Previti, Pazaggli, Chinellato.... but then you go and rate Coppola, who's also never played for Milan, as average... my god this post is a joke dude.

I don't really understand why my pessimism is such a big deal, we just need to see our league position to know we've not done a good job in recent years. Maybe I wasn't clear in that when trying to give my opinion on the transfers, it was taking into account how much a player costs, both in transfer fees and wages and also how much we managed to make back, as well as their on field contribution. Anyway, whether I'm pessimistic or not is beyond the point.

About Ibra, his cost is a massive issue as it clearly affected how we spent on other areas of the squad, even if we made back a lot of the transfer fee we spent on his sale. However, then you can't ignore his wages, which simply were beyond our spending capabilities and cost us far more than his transfer fee ever did. I'm not ignoring his footballing contribution, which was quite immense bringing back competitiveness to the side.

As for the others you mentioned, Van Bommel I already said was a short term solution but ultimately cost us long term rebuilding which was a necessity given the average age of our squad. I'm not deeming his transfer a bad one had we not kept him that extra season, but that's where we screwed up. Cassano's an erratic lunatic whose never been able hold a stable place at any club, it was a doomed transfer from the beginning and not keeping with the traditional values of the club.

How Robinho's a good transfer is beyond me. The guy had one decent season (still screwed up with missing open goals mind), and now we can't sell him for a third of the cost we got him for, never mind his huge wages. All this for a player who got Valter Birsa ahead of him in the pecking order.

Mexes is just bad. I'm sorry but he's not a good defender, he's very erratic, his performances are inconsistent, his tactical reading of the game is poor and the guy's disciplinary record is just awful. He's had some decent performances for us, but he's had just as many bad performances. Yet this guy's earning more than Chiellini at Juve? That's not a logical transfer, even if we offset the lack of transfer fee with higher salaries (which in itself isn't necessarily a smart business plan as wages cost more over the long run).

Balotelli's not been a bad transfer, but he's not exceeded any expectations imo. We paid a LOT of money to bring him in and in response he's got a decent game to goals ratio and has put in some good games. At the same time, his discipline has been terrible, while he's unable to perform in big games and very rarely does he take responsibility and really sacrifice himself for a result if the side's struggling (this is something Ibra did very well at times).

Boateng imo wasn't a bad transfer, again I just said it was pretty average. We bought him in total for around 10m from Genoa and sold him for pretty much the same amount (according to transfermarkt we made a very small loss, although I'm not sure that's right). During his time at Milan he made some good contributions, particularly in some big games (mostly Barca and Arsenal), but he was also awful at other times, especially the first half of last season. I don't see why we should call it great.

My other problem with these names is we brought them to patch up weak spots in our squad, rather than a proper developing project. About those guys we never see play, I'm not judging them as players (that wasn't what I was trying to say in the list), but bringing these guys in and keeping them costs money and history suggests they will never play for us. In this respect, how are they anything but poor transfers? At the same time Coppola was brought in for peanuts and his role is to be third choice. No team will spend significant money on this role yet it's a necessary role in the squad.

You got me. You actually made me LOL. Ibra is a player I miss a lot and rate him as the best signing in the recent years.

I assume me saying Montolivo being a good signing is what makes you laugh? Bear in mind when saying that I took into account that we're talking about a player who we got for free, was fundamental (arguably our most important player) last season and earnt the captain's armband. He's made a poor account of himself this year, but given how little he's cost and how much he's contributed, I don't see how that transfer at this point can be considered poor.

As for Ibra, please see the response to Hitman.

[ElMago99]

A lot of us discuss prices and try to break down the management end of things, which is ridiculous to do. It's not our money. At least it's not my money, so I really don't give a shit if Berlusconi wastes money. He stole it anyways, and sucked the money out of the people through his corporations, and then spent tons on whores and houses and planes. If Milan overpay for a player, it's really not my problem.

As a fan, I just want to see a good team on the field that can compete, players with class, that keep the Milan attitude, etc. All of these transfers are linked. Balotelli came because Pato left, essentially like for like. We didn't spend anything on Balotelli. We just used the Pato money, which was a lot less since he didn't leave when he was supposed to, but that's another story.

A few years ago we had Nesta, Thiago Silva and Mexes. IMO that was an amazing CB lineup. Mexes was very good playing with Nesta or T. Silva. Nesta needed his rests, and Silva was injured for a time, but all 3 played well with each other. When 2 of them left, thank GOD Mexes stayed.

As for Balotelli rumor, he needs to stay, end of story. We lack too much talent to see him ago and watch Matri pick his ass on the field.

[WCmilan]

Well wasting money is part of the reason why we don't see a good team on the field that can compete, so I believe it's relevant to talk about management mess ups.

Selling T.Silva was a huge mistake, but I think management knew we couldn't manage to retain a player of his quality if we needed to rebuild. Berlusconi gutted the squad with the excuse that we save 200 or so million euros over the next 3 or 4 years which we'll use to rebuild the squad with young players.. Unfortunately, even if we had Silva right know I don't think he could save us.. He'd definitely bring our defense up a level if not 10 levels, but we need more than just a world class defender. Our midfield, if I'm to be completely honest, might be worse than our defense - not on paper, but in reality I certainly think so.

[ElMago99]

Well wasting money is part of the reason why we don't see a good team on the field that can compete, so I believe it's relevant to talk about management mess ups.

What's the point of us talking about it, if Berlusconi doesn't even give a shit. If he did, he would have sacked that bald asshole years ago for the massive amount of shit signings and extensions he did. no?

[Gabriel426]

I don't think it is fair to say Ibra is a failure, as he was very effective for Milan. Helping Milan winning the league and coming in 2nd the following season(if that Muntari goal counted and Ref didnt favor Barca so much, Milan would have probably repeated Serie A and might even win the CL that yr.). On top of that, he brought out the best of a whole bunch of players either over the hill or just average. Like Boateng, Nocerino, Cassano, Robinho,Aqua,Muntari, Slowdorf and Van Bommel.
YES, he salary was a lot, but it is not like he requested it after Milan won title. Galli and Berlu knew what they are getting into when they signed him. Having said that, I would still rather pay Ibra that salary instead of paying the combine salary of Pazzo, Matri, Birsa and Robinho.

Robinho and Cassano can be consider as failure bc they really didnt carry the team like they were getting paid.

Nocerino, Boateng, Robinho, Pato, Mexes and even Cassano should have been sold instead of Ibra and Silva. Players like Troare, Didac, Taiwo, Mesbah, Brojin, and Zaccardo should never even be sign by Milan, as they are a waste of money and a waste of space for young home grown players to have a shot at playing on Milan 1st team.

Now imagine last yr team having Ibra and Silva along with Abate, and Constant as FBs, Zapata to partner Silva as CB. DeJong, Monty and Ambro as mid, with Ibra, Mario and SES as trident with a bench of Niang, Flamini, Muntari,Urby, Cristante, Struasser, Bonera, Yepes, DES, and Antonini. Might not beat Juve head to head, but having Ibra means getting 3 pts against crappy teams, which could turn out to be the diff between being 3rd and 1st.

Then by this past summer, Milan will only sign one of Vergerva(cant spell his name)and Salamon as a 4th CB(2mil saved as transfer fee and wages), will not loan Silvestre(another useless player)2mil saved, might even sign another top CB and sell Zapata(since Silva makes every CB looks better than they actually are), dont need to re sign Flamini, release Yepes to retirement, send Antonini, Muntari and Urby packing(the wages for these 5 players should be about 8mil before tax), can afford to wait for Honda to come free in Jan, sign Sapanora and Jorginho(using the saved wages to sign him)and on Aug 31, Kaka will return for free.

Milan will then enter the season with the following team
Abbaitti, Gabriel and whoever
Abate, DES, Constant as FB
Silva, Zapata/or a better CB like Dede, Bonera and Salamon
DeJong, Monty, Ambro, Cristante, Strausser, Jorginho
Kaka, SES, Sapanora, Niang, Mario and Ibra

Instead of Lady B and Galliani having a power struggle, and Galliani crying to anyone who will listen that he done so much.....he will be drinking and partying bc he has once again build another title winning team.
Allegri will still be Allegri but his late subs and other problems would not surface due to Silva at the back saving goals and Ibra in front scoring them.
Mario will be view as a model citizen due to Ibra being Ibra.

Milan will be top of the table in Serie A by a mile. While finally beating Barca twice in the group stage.

Lastly, we will not need to watch Matri the greatest defensive Striker playing for Milan.

[Alan]

I can handle not getting the best players in the world, what I can't handle is us rotting any promising talent we have on the bench then shipping them out. If Niang goes permanently and then balotelli we're in the position where matri and pazzini become our main strikeforce until ELS returns. you couldn't make it up.

[WCmilan]

Well wasting money is part of the reason why we don't see a good team on the field that can compete, so I believe it's relevant to talk about management mess ups.

What's the point of us talking about it, if Berlusconi doesn't even give a shit. If he did, he would have sacked that bald asshole years ago for the massive amount of shit signings and extensions he did. no?

Well, the point of a forum is to discuss things right. Berlusconi wont spend money even if we talk about it, but he also wont give you the competitive team you want to see,even if you talk about it like you are.

Anyhow, Milannews reports that Allegri has called up Hachim Mastour to train at Milanello. Very happy for this news.

[Beppe]

[undefined=undefined] Massimiliano Allegri admits “it’s my last Christmas at Milan and the last four months were disastrous.”[/undefined]

The Coach hopes 2014 can bring improvements and starts out by welcoming youth into his side, as today 15-year-old support striker Hachim Mastour and 15-year-old midfielder Manuel Locatelli join stars like Mario Balotelli and Ricky Kaka in training.

“The last four months in Serie A were disastrous,” confessed Allegri to Sky Sport Italia.

“In 2014 we are focusing on a great Champions League campaign. I am confident, even though Sulley Muntari and Riccardo Montolivo will be suspended for the first leg against Atletico Madrid.

“Plus there is the Coppa Italia to play for and in the League third place is a long way off, but we’ll do everything possible.”

In another interview with La Gazzetta dello Sport, Allegri acknowleged this is his final term at San Siro.

“I could’ve been the Coach who earned Milan’s second star, their 20th Scudetto. A phantom goal played a decisive role in my second Rossoneri season. We were not very lucky.”

He was referring to the infamous Sulley Muntari goal that crossed the line without being spotted by officials in their draw with Juventus.

“I leave a good team that earned the love of the fans. A team that with a few adjustments will have a future.

“The real regret is that I never had all the players at my disposal. The first choice full-backs were practically never available at the same time. We didn’t make mistakes in the medical staff, as we consulted with some of the best specialists in the world and it makes me angry that our doctors are under attack.

“I have always worked with enthusiasm and will continue right to the end. Why am I leaving? I decided the day it was made official I’d remain for one more season. I liked the idea of staying and finishing the job, but four years in one club is a long time.”

Clarence Seedorf is heavily tipped to be Allegri’s successor, despite having no management experience.

“I don’t know who will be the next Milan Coach and it’s not my problem. I can be certain this is my last Christmas at Milan, but I got there despite many people doubting I’d manage that.

“Seedorf gave a great deal in his penultimate season at Milan. He’s a great player, but I’d have loved to work with him when he was 28 rather than 35.”

There are other new arrivals, as Keisuke Honda and Adil Rami have joined from CSKA Moscow and Valencia respectively.

“I think they were good buys. The club is working well, is building the team also for next season so that we won’t need too many adjustments.

“As for Balotelli, this year will be good for his future. He will improve a great deal, has enormous potential and will also be crucial for the World Cup.”

Allegri was asked about rumours he is the favourite to take over from Cesare Prandelli on the Italy bench after Brazil 2014.

“What do I say about the colour Azzurro? It brings the sun, which makes you happy when you wake up in the morning.... The Nazionale has a great Coach who has brought wonderful results and can have a great World Cup.”

---

As expected, Milan have parted company with director of sport Ariedo Braida after 27 years at the club.

[undefined=undefined]The Rossoneri released a statement this morning confirming Braida “leaves the club today.[/undefined] He was a precious collaborator for a very long time, characterised by prestigious results that must also be attributed to his important work.”

It is a huge break, as Braida has been at Milanello for 27 years in various capacities.

His exit is the sign of a new era opening up under Barbara Berlusconi, who became joint-CEO with Adriano Galliani this month.

Braida has been linked with future jobs at other football clubs, including Sampdoria and Monaco.

---

so Allegri will leave and Braida is already gone. thats great news. I hope Galliani is next in the summer.

[ACMILAN1983]

I read about Braida and I hope the official site writes a good article on him. While in recent years it's fair to say he's not been doing the best job in the world, I think over the last 27 years, with Galliani, he's been a key part of bringing Milan to the top. btw, we regularly see posts about Braida's useless trips to Brazil, I'm curious to see what Galliani does this time.

A lot of us discuss prices and try to break down the management end of things, which is ridiculous to do. It's not our money. At least it's not my money, so I really don't give a shit if Berlusconi wastes money. He stole it anyways, and sucked the money out of the people through his corporations, and then spent tons on whores and houses and planes. If Milan overpay for a player, it's really not my problem.

As a fan, I just want to see a good team on the field that can compete, players with class, that keep the Milan attitude, etc. All of these transfers are linked. Balotelli came because Pato left, essentially like for like. We didn't spend anything on Balotelli. We just used the Pato money, which was a lot less since he didn't leave when he was supposed to, but that's another story.

A few years ago we had Nesta, Thiago Silva and Mexes. IMO that was an amazing CB lineup. Mexes was very good playing with Nesta or T. Silva. Nesta needed his rests, and Silva was injured for a time, but all 3 played well with each other. When 2 of them left, thank GOD Mexes stayed.

As for Balotelli rumor, he needs to stay, end of story. We lack too much talent to see him ago and watch Matri pick his ass on the field.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It's obviously a case that we don't know the exact budgets and figures, so at best we make educated guesses. It's not our money, but I assume we're all here because we care about Milan and as WCMilan said how we use the money and manage the club directly impacts what happens on the pitch.

Whether you consciously do it or not, you as well as everyone takes into account how much money we can spend everytime we say we want this or that player or make our ideal lineup, as if we didn't care about money we'd have fantasy lineups with Messi, Iniesta and Ronaldo in them.

As for Mexes, I feel you overrate him personally. He was ok next to Nesta and Thiago Silva as they compensate for his weaknesses. However, this is a guy who we paid more than Thiago Silva (who was undoubtedly the best defender in the world at this point) until the latter got a contract renewal just before he left. I have problems with this, because not only are we paying huge amounts of money for a 3rd choice CB, but as a result that sort of salary drives up the potential demands of other players (I'm certain Thiago Silva took issue about earning less than Mexes despite being much better). Truth is, if we're going to pay Mexes on par with the best defenders in the world, then in return he has to perform on par with the best.

What's the point of us talking about it, if Berlusconi doesn't even give a shit. If he did, he would have sacked that bald asshole years ago for the massive amount of shit signings and extensions he did. no?

If we're going to say this, then what's the point of discussing Milan at all. Half of our players play like they couldn't care less and are more interested in posting topless selfies wearing a bow tie.
We discuss it because ultimately we care about Milan and these are the changes we want to see. I'm well aware that me posting here isn't going to have any influence on how the club is run, but as WCMilan said, the point of a forum is to discuss the club as fans. Who knows, maybe you'll post something good that a person from the club will see and it will get implemented

I can handle not getting the best players in the world, what I can't handle is us rotting any promising talent we have on the bench then shipping them out. If Niang goes permanently and then balotelli we're in the position where matri and pazzini become our main strikeforce until ELS returns. you couldn't make it up.

I have big issues with this too. Cristante more than anyone is a player I feel this way about.

I don't think it is fair to say Ibra is a failure, as he was very effective for Milan. Helping Milan winning the league and coming in 2nd the following season(if that Muntari goal counted and Ref didnt favor Barca so much, Milan would have probably repeated Serie A and might even win the CL that yr.). On top of that, he brought out the best of a whole bunch of players either over the hill or just average. Like Boateng, Nocerino, Cassano, Robinho,Aqua,Muntari, Slowdorf and Van Bommel.
YES, he salary was a lot, but it is not like he requested it after Milan won title. Galli and Berlu knew what they are getting into when they signed him. Having said that, I would still rather pay Ibra that salary instead of paying the combine salary of Pazzo, Matri, Birsa and Robinho.

Robinho and Cassano can be consider as failure bc they really didnt carry the team like they were getting paid.

Nocerino, Boateng, Robinho, Pato, Mexes and even Cassano should have been sold instead of Ibra and Silva. Players like Troare, Didac, Taiwo, Mesbah, Brojin, and Zaccardo should never even be sign by Milan, as they are a waste of money and a waste of space for young home grown players to have a shot at playing on Milan 1st team.

Now imagine last yr team having Ibra and Silva along with Abate, and Constant as FBs, Zapata to partner Silva as CB. DeJong, Monty and Ambro as mid, with Ibra, Mario and SES as trident with a bench of Niang, Flamini, Muntari,Urby, Cristante, Struasser, Bonera, Yepes, DES, and Antonini. Might not beat Juve head to head, but having Ibra means getting 3 pts against crappy teams, which could turn out to be the diff between being 3rd and 1st.

Then by this past summer, Milan will only sign one of Vergerva(cant spell his name)and Salamon as a 4th CB(2mil saved as transfer fee and wages), will not loan Silvestre(another useless player)2mil saved, might even sign another top CB and sell Zapata(since Silva makes every CB looks better than they actually are), dont need to re sign Flamini, release Yepes to retirement, send Antonini, Muntari and Urby packing(the wages for these 5 players should be about 8mil before tax), can afford to wait for Honda to come free in Jan, sign Sapanora and Jorginho(using the saved wages to sign him)and on Aug 31, Kaka will return for free.

Milan will then enter the season with the following team
Abbaitti, Gabriel and whoever
Abate, DES, Constant as FB
Silva, Zapata/or a better CB like Dede, Bonera and Salamon
DeJong, Monty, Ambro, Cristante, Strausser, Jorginho
Kaka, SES, Sapanora, Niang, Mario and Ibra

Instead of Lady B and Galliani having a power struggle, and Galliani crying to anyone who will listen that he done so much.....he will be drinking and partying bc he has once again build another title winning team.
Allegri will still be Allegri but his late subs and other problems would not surface due to Silva at the back saving goals and Ibra in front scoring them.
Mario will be view as a model citizen due to Ibra being Ibra.

Milan will be top of the table in Serie A by a mile. While finally beating Barca twice in the group stage.

Lastly, we will not need to watch Matri the greatest defensive Striker playing for Milan.

Hold on, let's take a step back here. Not just aimed at you Gabriel, but it seems my opinion on transfers is getting misread or construed as opinion on the players, neither of which is right.

On Ibra, I do not consider his signing from a footballing perspective and his contribution in that regard a failure, albeit I personally had issue with aspects of his game. We got him to help challenge for honours immediately, giving the squad a new winning mentality that had been lost. From that perspective, he did everything expected of him. I'm not going to say it was a particularly brilliant or inspired transfer, as we got him for a huge sum of money and was paid comparably with the best like Messi and Ronaldo. If either of these guys came, expectations would be equally high, it's the same with Ibra.

From a management perspective, knowing we didn't have a mega budget (like Barca, Real, PSG, Monaco etc) and we had a large number of players in the squad that needed replacing sooner rather than later, it wasn't a sensible decision to go for Ibra instead of beginning the rebuilding process, even if it was at the expense of short term success.

This is where I take issue and why I called it a mixed (having both good and bad elements) transfer, our management showed a major lack of foresight and spent money in ways we just can't afford. I don't blame Ibra for earning 12m a year, a player gets paid what's agreed during negotiations, I blame the management for making damaging decisions.

[Jay Crisp]

Am I too pessimistic to think we still (hashtag still) have no real plan ,I'm 110% certain our MGT owner would love to win more trophies but because of our owner we cant...theres no investment not even reasonable and the precious money we had was spent on Matri Zapata this past summer thats €17 million..Zapata isnt the worst investment but Matri holy shitballs bros it was awful and its not as if it backfired we knew hed be crap.

Honda good addition Rami im optomistic about.And Im not saying id of prefered to have paid big for them..but our plan is still Free Cheap Troublesome.
Nainggolan may or may not arrive.Hes not what we need but will be better than Noce Poli Muntari.
Wait though wait for the grazie presidente a GIFT GIFT TO FANS FROM PAPPA B.

This club ATM is spiralling down so fast ,how Max is still here i dont know.Seedorf apparently is lined up.But jesus christ son Max is one of the main reasons we're so close to a relegation battle.

Ive discussed with sone that Seedorf coming will make no difference in our direction ,they claim Dorf is a proud man and he wouldnt sign on if there was the same kind of mercatos.

Well they lied to Leo Ibra Cassano so I think theyll lie again...besides Abate DES Zapata Monty DeJong Rami Honda Poli Kaka SES PAZZO Balo ,Id want everyone else gone...i dont include Niang Gabriel Cristante Saponara as those id get rid of..i want them to stay