Winter mercato January 2015

[Jay Crisp]

The other guy got it why can't you? I've explained several times and can't be bothered to repeat myself. I suggest you re-read mine/his posts again and hopefully it'll sink in

There is nothing to sink in.Internazionale are doing worse than a terrible Milan ATM.Average squad a few good young players with avearge results and are mid-table.For someone who harps on about how great Inter are doing maybe it will sink into you , they're doing nothing.

You've explained nothing , you keep saying Inter have a plan and doing good going about it well.What exactly is the plan ? from where I stand they have an average squad a few good prospects a definite in Kovacic and I woud say Icardi too.
Dodo is loan by the way not sure where you got they paid 10m + for him.

Milan are trash ATM but Inter are not an example to follow.I don't need to re-read your posts on how great Inter are doing (even though theyre behind a woeful Milan) you pull things out of your own mind , a great plan you say proven quality executives etc.. Im simply asking what is the great plan they have ? ...beyond buying players and loaning players they're not doing anything good.Ive seen that side play they epitomize average just as much as AC Milan.

[Jokka]

There is nothing to sink in.Internazionale are doing worse than a terrible Milan ATM.Average squad a few good young players with avearge results and are mid-table.For someone who harps on about how great Inter are doing maybe it will sink into you , they're doing nothing.

You've explained nothing , you keep saying Inter have a plan and doing good going about it well.What exactly is the plan ? from where I stand they have an average squad a few good prospects a definite in Kovacic and I woud say Icardi too.
Dodo is loan by the way not sure where you got they paid 10m + for him.

Milan are trash ATM but Inter are not an example to follow.I don't need to re-read your posts on how great Inter are doing (even though theyre behind a woeful Milan) you pull things out of your own mind , a great plan you say proven quality executives etc.. Im simply asking what is the great plan they have ? ...beyond buying players and loaning players they're not doing anything good.Ive seen that side play they epitomize average just as much as AC Milan.

The other guy got it why can't you? I've explained several times and can't be bothered to repeat myself. I suggest you re-read mine/his posts again and hopefully it'll sink in

[Jay Crisp]

The other guy got it why can't you? I've explained several times and can't be bothered to repeat myself. I suggest you re-read mine/his posts again and hopefully it'll sink in

There is nothing to sink in.Internazionale are doing worse than a terrible Milan ATM.Average squad a few good young players with avearge results and are mid-table.For someone who harps on about how great Inter are doing maybe it will sink into you , they're doing nothing.

You've explained nothing , you keep saying Inter have a plan and doing good going about it well.What exactly is the plan ? from where I stand they have an average squad a few good prospects a definite in Kovacic and I woud say Icardi too.
Dodo is loan by the way not sure where you got they paid 10m + for him.

Milan are trash ATM but Inter are not an example to follow.I don't need to re-read your posts on how great Inter are doing (even though theyre behind a woeful Milan) you pull things out of your own mind , a great plan you say proven quality executives etc.. Im simply asking what is the great plan they have ? ...beyond buying players and loaning players they're not doing anything good.Ive seen that side play they epitomize average just as much as AC Milan

[ACMILAN1983]

I understand what Jokka is saying. Inter at this point has a lot of things going for them, despite their struggling in standings. And in more ways than one, I would say they are in better position than us.

Inter has several young players who looks to have a good future ahead of them; a strong youth team that has a history of producing quality young players; an experienced coach who had been on top of the mountain before; and an owner who is not afraid to inject cash into the operation. Sure, their owner isn't half the soccer mind Berlu and Galli are, but neither was Moratti. Inter had always really been one owner away from becoming a dominant force even since Moratti days, but that didn't stop them from winning five Serie A in a row and the CL.

Thohir has a lot to learn about being a good soccer mind and an owner, that's for sure. But he has the drive and the will to make sure his team succeeds. That's why he is willing to invest money for quality players like Hernanes and pay for two high paying coaches in Mazarri and Mancini at the same time. Of course he will make mistakes, as all new owners do, but he is willing to try. When Inter say they are going to sign quality players and nurture their young players to succeed, you can actually believe it could happen.

Milan, on the other hand, has two executives who knows everything there is to know about soccer. But what we don't have is really anything else. There is no willingness to invest even a dime into the team; young players are touted one day and ditched the next; coaches are selected because of their popularity with the fans instead of any merit. When Galliani say we have a plan to succeed, i think most reasonable fans are sitting there rolling their eyes thinking "Yeah, right!" When we talk about signing a new player, we all know he's gonna be free and old and useless; When we talk about a youngster who is going to take over, we know he is either going to get injured, underperform or sold to somewhere else. Nobody believes in Milan's plans, and for good reasons too.

If I were an Inter fan, I can look at Juan, Ranocchia, Handanovic, Icardi and Kovacic and think "man, two quality signings and this team can go places". I really cannot say the same thing about Milan, even though I am a Milan fan. I don't know if Thohir will succeed or not, but I must say, at this stage, Inter seems like they are in a better place than us.

I respect your posts, but really I think you're totally wrong here. Inter's in pretty much just as bad a state as Milan. Their youth players have regularly been shipped off without any real chances. Their talents, like Kovacic and Icardi aren't any more proven than DES and SES (argubly even less so). Their CB pairing is a total joke, Ranocchia only proving himself an average CB at best, while Juan Jesus is yet to prove he's anything more than average. It's no surprise their defensive record this season is barely better than Milan's, despite they have a very good GK with lots of experience (much like Milan). Besides that, they're have very little to show they're building to anything. They're yet to show any significant investment towards the future, as if you look at transfermarkt, then they have only spent £2m this summer.

Their management structure might be changing, but it's been anything but a smooth process until now and if anything it appears to be disruptive. They're in the same boat as Milan as far as infrastructure (e.g. stadium) goes, arguably behind. Thohir himself is yet to prove he's a capable owner and certainly won't be spending what Moratti has in the past (meaning he's got to be smart in his management). As for the coaches, I think there's been little to really show any real planning in who they've hired (Mancini's hiring feels more like appeasing people).

Milan aren't better, but using Inter as any sort of example of correct management is BS imo. Getting back to Milan and specifically Pippo's approach, I do think they change of system vs Inter was probably reasonably suited if the right players are used. Personally, I think a 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, however you look at it, serves a purpose and I'd consider this lineup when we have the missing players back:

-------------Diego Lopez---------------
Abate-------Alex-------Rami----------DES
Honda-----Montolivo--De Jong-----Bonaventura
--Torres/Pazzini/Niang--SES-------------

Main reasons for this are 4-4-2 is a commonly understood system within football, meaning it should in reality be easier to organise players of not particularly good tactical discipline to play in the system. Defensively it's one of the most balanced system's you can get, which should help what has been a leaky defence. While Rami and Alex have the nod, Zapata can also fit well, especially with his pace. Within the system you get to utilise the partnership Honda and Abate have developed this season, while Montolivo and De Jong are generally two balanced and mature CMs, with the Italian able to perform his role as a regista.

Bonaventura is a player who has proven a hard worker and would be able to work in more space in wide areas. SES on the other hand would be closer to goal, allowing him to focus more on scoring and making his runs in behind the defence. He's also a hard worker, but asking him to work the whole left wing is a waste of his energy. However, pressing higher up should benefit his game, both in what's expected of him defensively, but also because his starting position when transitioning from defence to attack is naturally higher. Alongside him we have one of 3 forwards to act as a reference (unfortunately none are scoring).

Fundamentally, the reason for this choice of players would be to choose individuals who are known to be team players and work hard as a unit, meaning the team can naturally play higher up the field. The approach would allow the team to try and utilise the strengths on the counter (with SES, Honda, Bonaventura and Abate all having shown qualities to do it this year), but with a midfield of Honda, Montolivo and Bonaventura you should also have a side that's capable of holding possession when needed. Finally, the system has 5/6 Italians in the lineup. This means that half (and much of the spine) of the team is made up of players who have all been developed in the same culture and with similar ideas on the game, which should help to reduce how disjointed the team has felt in recent years.

[Jay Crisp]

I respect your posts, but really I think you're totally wrong here. Inter's in pretty much just as bad a state as Milan. Their youth players have regularly been shipped off without any real chances. Their talents, like Kovacic and Icardi aren't any more proven than DES and SES (argubly even less so). Their CB pairing is a total joke, Ranocchia only proving himself an average CB at best, while Juan Jesus is yet to prove he's anything more than average. It's no surprise their defensive record this season is barely better than Milan's, despite they have a very good GK with lots of experience (much like Milan). Besides that, they're have very little to show they're building to anything. They're yet to show any significant investment towards the future, as if you look at transfermarkt, then they have only spent £2m this summer.

Their management structure might be changing, but it's been anything but a smooth process until now and if anything it appears to be disruptive. They're in the same boat as Milan as far as infrastructure (e.g. stadium) goes, arguably behind. Thohir himself is yet to prove he's a capable owner and certainly won't be spending what Moratti has in the past (meaning he's got to be smart in his management). As for the coaches, I think there's been little to really show any real planning in who they've hired (Mancini's hiring feels more like appeasing people).

Milan aren't better, but using Inter as any sort of example of correct management is BS imo. Getting back to Milan and specifically Pippo's approach, I do think they change of system vs Inter was probably reasonably suited if the right players are used. Personally, I think a 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, however you look at it, serves a purpose and I'd consider this lineup when we have the missing players back:

-------------Diego Lopez---------------
Abate-------Alex-------Rami----------DES
Honda-----Montolivo--De Jong-----Bonaventura
--Torres/Pazzini/Niang--SES-------------

Main reasons for this are 4-4-2 is a commonly understood system within football, meaning it should in reality be easier to organise players of not particularly good tactical discipline to play in the system. Defensively it's one of the most balanced system's you can get, which should help what has been a leaky defence. While Rami and Alex have the nod, Zapata can also fit well, especially with his pace. Within the system you get to utilise the partnership Honda and Abate have developed this season, while Montolivo and De Jong are generally two balanced and mature CMs, with the Italian able to perform his role as a regista.

Bonaventura is a player who has proven a hard worker and would be able to work in more space in wide areas. SES on the other hand would be closer to goal, allowing him to focus more on scoring and making his runs in behind the defence. He's also a hard worker, but asking him to work the whole left wing is a waste of his energy. However, pressing higher up should benefit his game, both in what's expected of him defensively, but also because his starting position when transitioning from defence to attack is naturally higher. Alongside him we have one of 3 forwards to act as a reference (unfortunately none are scoring).

Fundamentally, the reason for this choice of players would be to choose individuals who are known to be team players and work hard as a unit, meaning the team can naturally play higher up the field. The approach would allow the team to try and utilise the strengths on the counter (with SES, Honda, Bonaventura and Abate all having shown qualities to do it this year), but with a midfield of Honda, Montolivo and Bonaventura you should also have a side that's capable of holding possession when needed. Finally, the system has 5/6 Italians in the lineup. This means that half (and much of the spine) of the team is made up of players who have all been developed in the same culture and with similar ideas on the game, which should help to reduce how disjointed the team has felt in recent years.

GREAT POST!!

[Jokka]

There is nothing to sink in.Internazionale are doing worse than a terrible Milan ATM.Average squad a few good young players with avearge results and are mid-table.For someone who harps on about how great Inter are doing maybe it will sink into you , they're doing nothing.

You've explained nothing , you keep saying Inter have a plan and doing good going about it well.What exactly is the plan ? from where I stand they have an average squad a few good prospects a definite in Kovacic and I woud say Icardi too.
Dodo is loan by the way not sure where you got they paid 10m + for him.

Milan are trash ATM but Inter are not an example to follow.I don't need to re-read your posts on how great Inter are doing (even though theyre behind a woeful Milan) you pull things out of your own mind , a great plan you say proven quality executives etc.. Im simply asking what is the great plan they have ? ...beyond buying players and loaning players they're not doing anything good.Ive seen that side play they epitomize average just as much as AC Milan

I understand what Jokka is saying. Inter at this point has a lot of things going for them, despite their struggling in standings. And in more ways than one, I would say they are in better position than us.

Inter has several young players who looks to have a good future ahead of them; a strong youth team that has a history of producing quality young players; an experienced coach who had been on top of the mountain before; and an owner who is not afraid to inject cash into the operation. Sure, their owner isn't half the soccer mind Berlu and Galli are, but neither was Moratti. Inter had always really been one owner away from becoming a dominant force even since Moratti days, but that didn't stop them from winning five Serie A in a row and the CL.

Thohir has a lot to learn about being a good soccer mind and an owner, that's for sure. But he has the drive and the will to make sure his team succeeds. That's why he is willing to invest money for quality players like Hernanes and pay for two high paying coaches in Mazarri and Mancini at the same time. Of course he will make mistakes, as all new owners do, but he is willing to try. When Inter say they are going to sign quality players and nurture their young players to succeed, you can actually believe it could happen.

Milan, on the other hand, has two executives who knows everything there is to know about soccer. But what we don't have is really anything else. There is no willingness to invest even a dime into the team; young players are touted one day and ditched the next; coaches are selected because of their popularity with the fans instead of any merit. When Galliani say we have a plan to succeed, i think most reasonable fans are sitting there rolling their eyes thinking "Yeah, right!" When we talk about signing a new player, we all know he's gonna be free and old and useless; When we talk about a youngster who is going to take over, we know he is either going to get injured, underperform or sold to somewhere else. Nobody believes in Milan's plans, and for good reasons too.

If I were an Inter fan, I can look at Juan, Ranocchia, Handanovic, Icardi and Kovacic and think "man, two quality signings and this team can go places". I really cannot say the same thing about Milan, even though I am a Milan fan. I don't know if Thohir will succeed or not, but I must say, at this stage, Inter seems like they are in a better place than us.

[reza]

Excellent post Dev, thanks. One thing I would say though ... Long term, I am not sure much can be achieved by putting Honda on the right of midfield, unless he has license to move up and to the middle more.

[ACMILAN1983]

Thanks. Honda would naturally cut in for Abate to overlap. Picture the sort of movement we saw from them earlier this season

[Jokka]

I respect your posts, but really I think you're totally wrong here. Inter's in pretty much just as bad a state as Milan. Their youth players have regularly been shipped off without any real chances. Their talents, like Kovacic and Icardi aren't any more proven than DES and SES (argubly even less so). Their CB pairing is a total joke, Ranocchia only proving himself an average CB at best, while Juan Jesus is yet to prove he's anything more than average. It's no surprise their defensive record this season is barely better than Milan's, despite they have a very good GK with lots of experience (much like Milan). Besides that, they're have very little to show they're building to anything. They're yet to show any significant investment towards the future, as if you look at transfermarkt, then they have only spent £2m this summer.

Their management structure might be changing, but it's been anything but a smooth process until now and if anything it appears to be disruptive. They're in the same boat as Milan as far as infrastructure (e.g. stadium) goes, arguably behind. Thohir himself is yet to prove he's a capable owner and certainly won't be spending what Moratti has in the past (meaning he's got to be smart in his management). As for the coaches, I think there's been little to really show any real planning in who they've hired (Mancini's hiring feels more like appeasing people).

Hate to say it but this post's complete nonsense. Firstly, nobody's saying Inter's better than us now. We're saying they've got a logical plan for returning to the top unlike us.

Your comment about Inter's youth is ridiculous. Benassi, Duncan + Bardi are enjoying their second consecutive season in Serie A and Cristieg + Longo their first. Inter's got buyback options and they're getting regular top level experience. Can we say same about our youth? No because they're all rotting in Serie B/sold.

Ranocchia/Juan Jesus may seem like a "total joke" to you but luckily your opinion doesn't count. The people that do (e.g. Conte) have faith in their abilities. It's not their fault they've been playing Mazzarri's wretched 3 man defence for past 2 seasons. But they're both young unlike old dogs Alex, Mexes, Bonera so they've got plenty of time to improve.

Re money spent, you do realize Hernanes, Icardi, Kovacic are being paid for in installments? That's common practice nowadays with FFP. They've also acquired Dodo/M'Vila on paid loans with staggered buyout options. At least they're able to spend 10m+ on players regularly unlike us. Now Mancini's in charge they'll spend even more since he favours 4-2-3-1 and Inter lack wingers.

Your point about Inter's management structure makes zero sense. Thohir's barely been there a year and he's already changed Manager and hired several top level Execs. Obviously he's gradually phased these changes as doing it all at once would be chaotic. Which Corporation do you know isn't disrupted by Managerial/Executive changes? None! No idea how you concluded Inter's "arguably behind" Milan in owning a stadium. Last time I checked both share San Siro. It's also laughable you think there's "no planning" behind Inter's Managerial/Executive recruitment. You do realize Seedorf signed a pre-contract with Milan month's before he was hired? What makes you think Inter don't operate in a similar fashion? I'm willing to bet the Inter opportunity was one of the reasons Mancini resigned from Galatasary.

[reza]

Jokka, if not before ( ) you lost me when you praised Ranocchia and to mention Conte? He has no options, doesn't make his choices good.

If Milan need to look to any other Italian team it would be to Roma or Juve and that's to get a stadium in 3 or 4 years max.