07-18-2015, 04:41 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 04:56 AM by nefremo.)
Not sure what you mean with the Braida comment. And the fact that we didn't spend on midfielders but on forwards doesn't mean that we didn't have 12.5 mil. The point still stands....nobody in Italy made an offer for Verratti because teams thought he was a gamble and didn't want to pay for potential. They wanted to pay for the "NOW" and not the future.
I don't know if Romagnoli will turn out to be another Verratti. I'm just saying that the situation is very much the same. Player has a great season, is praised by almost everyone, is young, interest from Italy and abroad. Very similar situation. From here on, how Romagnoli develops remains to be seen. Does he go on an become another Verratti and then we curse everyone and their mother that we didn't spend the 25mil? Or doesn he turn out to nothing more then an average player. Verratti's transfer had the same risk. PSG gambled and they won.
You could very well make the same argument about Verratti (about the defence being disorganized).....meaning, Our midfield was all over the place back then so Verratti was never going to fail here. With all due respect to your opinion, It's ridiculius to think that and to not get the player because of this reason. Our defense IS disorganized and I agree with that. To say Romagnoli will fail because of that is impossible to be claimed right now. He might very well fix a lot of the problems on the contrary.
Only world class players and leaders could change Milan. Not Romagnoli, Not Bertolacci, Not poachers. AC Milan is a poorly constructed team. We needed to change it. But we didn't. Young players won't develop in this Milan. This is why im thinking that Romagnoli would fail here.
(07-18-2015, 04:55 AM)Milanista87 Wrote: Only world class players and leaders could change Milan. Not Romagnoli, Not Bertolacci, Not poachers. AC Milan is a poorly constructed team. We needed to change it. But we didn't. Young players won't develop in this Milan. This is why im thinking that Romagnoli would fail here.
I agree with the bold part (notice I didn't bold ONLY)....it's hard not to. I would love to get world class players in. Verratti, Gundogan, Ramos, Ibrahimovic, Di Maria, Thiago, etc, etc. Problem is that these players cost a ton, and are not really willing to come here this summer, as if they were even available, other clubs would be preferred destinations anyway....unless we massively overpay. Keep in mind that some of these players already hold ridiculous prices.
The underlined part, I don't agree with. Romagnoli and Bertolacci and Bacca (assuming this is who you are talking about) CAN change Milan's fortunes. They need more players around them though and need help. Keep in mind, Juventus didn't start their rebuild with expensive big name world class players. Nobody thought Bonucci would turn out the way he did; they got Tevez who was great but not really desired at the time and was kind of a difficult case, got Pirlo from us but don't forget that he was considered to be DONE by everyone; Vidal was in the bracket of a Bertolacci back then; etc; etc...you get my point.
IF the team is constructed with a plan, with careful choosing...it CAN be done. Sure to mix in a superstar with guarantees in the line up would be so much smoother. This is why I want Gundogan and Verratti and Gotze, etc....but fact of the matter is that it's kind of difficult to lure those players here now.
You want to buy a world class player. I want to develop world class player. You say milan never make 1. I say we make alot of them. Sheva, kaka, pirlo, gattuso, serginho, etc. They are either a good prospect or unknown when come to milan, yet we make them world class. We are never a chelsea or real madrid from the begining. You need to understand that 1st. We bought world class player yes, rui costa who is a back up., jaap stam a rotation player, rivaldo fail, ronaldinho only 1 season, robinho hit the sky. And dont start saying ibra. He is just 1 in lots of others that fail. Not all world class player can make it. We just need the right player for the team.
Romagnoli at this price point is certainly a huge gamble. Yes, the pay off could be tremendous, but we also need to look at how much risk we are taking on. It's like I have no problem spending $5 every week buying lottery tickets because the pay off could be huge; But if I sell my house and use the proceeds to buy lottery tickets, then I am insane. At age 20, being very unproven, Romagnoli is already selling at 30M, whereas Verrati was not even half of that. A gamble on Verratti was worthwhile because the pay off is great considering the investment. Not so much for Romagnoli.
I think this Milan team is not attracting a lot of world class players because it is still in the early rebuilding phase. Big time players want to play on established teams or teams that are very close to contention. If you think back, Chelsea, Man City and PSG did not start signing the biggest stars in the world their first couple of years under the current ownership. I do call Kaka turning down Man City even after we agreed to sell for record fee. During the beginning phase of their rebuild, they also overpaid for some second tier talent. But once that phase is complete, and they have a solid foundation, world class players all decided to show up. We just have to get what we can, and get a coach who can mold the team into a competitive squad. Once we start being competitive, we can then throw our cash around on the world class players we all dream of.
07-18-2015, 09:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 09:55 AM by ACMILAN1983.)
I want to reiterate, Romagnoli's price at this point is due to the inflated market. None of the players we've brought are the price we paid for them, but that's the nature of the market right now as well as our situation.
Question is, who can the club realistically buy in place of Romagnoli for a reasonable price?
I also don't understand who the alternative is that we can get instead of Romagnoli who offers guarantees. Romagnoli is a player who's had a couple of very good years in Serie A, he's Italian and will have less issues fitting in culturally, he's widely regarded as one of the best upcoming Italian defenders and he's a player who played last year under Mihajlovic and his coaching staff and therefore they'll know each other very well. For all intents and purposes, unless the club get an established star of the likes of Thiago Silva, then realistically Romagnoli's one of the more risk averse options out there.
On established stars, or world class players to be specific, the club cannot get them. The fact is that the club's struggled to get very good players this market because frankly recent years appear to have done more damage to the name than we anticipated. If we can't even attract names like J.Martinez and Kondogbia, then what hope do we have getting guys like Thiago Silva or Godin (who incidentally said he sees Milan as a step down for his career)? The only world class option available to us right now seems to be Ibra, who's only available because he's ageing and honestly doesn't seem particularly in demand.
If the very best are rejecting us, we have to take alternative options. One is to get second tier players who have established themselves elsewhere. Honestly, we've kind of done that by buying guys like Bacca and Luiz Adriano and to an extent Bertolacci. They give us solid foundations to rely on to ensure that the club is in a position to compete near the top of the league.
The other option is to invest in youth, players who right now may not guarantee success, but can in the long run become cornerstones for the club. The club are doing that by buying Mauri and hopefully Romagnoli, as well as trusting in Niang, DES and Suso. It might leave us in a situation where risks are being taken, but they need to be taken if there's any hope of recovering. We're not going to sign the top stars as we are and we cannot keep buying second tier talent if we're hoping to get back to the top. That's the reality of the situation and that's why we have to put investment towards buying young talents.
Milanista87, I understand your concerns about our inability in recent years to develop young talent, but as I've said before, the club has to get better at it. We're not in a position to particularly pick and choose how we rebuild, we have to start working towards rebuilding with a new generation.
I also think that last season, we were potentially a top 6 team. Inzaghi's coaching was atrocious and it's clear the situation regressed as a result. At the moment I think we're probably in a similar position as we pretty much are. Add Romagnoli and ideally a second reliable CB (this may not be possible), we can consider a top 3 position. Add a quality midfielder and that firms up our chances for a top 3 finish and add Ibra and you potentially fight for the scudetto. Rebuilding isn't simple and it will take a year or two before we're in a position where we can be confident of a top 3 finish (assuming things work out).
Also, Inter's market is surprisingly similar in approach. The only "guarantee" they've bought is Miranda, who in all honesty isn't even that great imo. The others, like Murillo, Santon and Kondogbia are all being bought for their potential. The only other one is Biabiany, who was got for free and frankly is an option from the bench. Even then, given his problems in the past year, he offers no guarantees either.
Edit: Just want to say with things as they are, I'm with nefremo. If we're prepared to offer 25m for Romagnoli, then I'd be prepared to go to 30m to meet the asking price and close the deal. That 5m at this point really shouldn't halt the deal for what appears to be the top target for the summer.
Edit 2: Just read that according to CdS that Mihajlovic considers Suso and Cerci nontransferable. Suso I can understand, but Cerci!? Seriously!?  I'm hoping it's just media BS.
Valid point. Romagnoli's price is a partial result of the market inflation. And truth be told, I do not mind us overpaying for a player like him. But to me, overpaying means something like 20M-23M for a player I would probably rate 15M tops. 30M, on the other hand, just seems outrageous even in an inflated market. Now, if our management and coaching staff absolutely believes this guy is the next big thing and the risk of him turning bust is low, then go ahead and pay 30M. Talent don't come cheap. But if they are not 100% on this, I would start browsing around for some alternatives.
There are plenty of options to go with if we don't get Romagnoli. Savic is a proven CB at Serie A level who is still young enough to offer some upside. He doesn't have Nesta ceiling the way Romagnoli does, but he is a rock solid CB that we can depend on. If we have to go with someone left footed, how about Umtiti or Doria? Both guys are just as young and offers similar upside. How about guys like Rudiger, Nastacic (I know he's non-EU but just for arguments sake), or Indi? I am not making any prediction on whether Romagnoli will or will not have a better career than the guys listed. Just to illustrate that Romagnoli is not the only talented CB 30M can buy out there.
(07-18-2015, 05:51 AM)sylrus Wrote: You want to buy a world class player. I want to develop world class player. You say milan never make 1. I say we make alot of them. Sheva, kaka, pirlo, gattuso, serginho, etc. They are either a good prospect or unknown when come to milan,
I have to disagree with this. Shevchenko paired with Rebrov was the most feared pairing in all of Europe when they were at Dynamo Kiev. Milan did not make this player, they just bought him at the right time.
I see what your saying, but if the club aren't prepared to pay, they won't get adequate players, it just seems the way the market is right now. We can try to set our stall, but most of these clubs don't seem in a position to be desperate to sell, in fact Roma are possibly the most willing.
On the names you mentioned:
- Savic: A decent defender but one I don't seeing particularly great and frankly it seems unlikely he'll leave for less than 15-20m at least.
- Umtiti: Lyon won't sell unless it's absurd bid. I reckon Lyon would expect nothing less than 40m.
- Doria: People talk about Romagnoli being a risk, but Doria's a much bigger risk right now, especially following the past year. His value may not actually be that high, but there's a reason.
- Nastasic: Non-Eu aside, he's literally just been signed by Shalke permanently. Why would they sell and even if they did, you're probably talking of a very high cost.
- Rudiger: Personally, I don't see anything special about him, but even then, how cheap and reliable will he be? I don't see him leaving for less than 15m and imo comes with a significantly greater risk than other options.
- Martins Indi: Again, I personally don't rate him as highly as others, but also I don't see him coming cheap, I think Porto would demand at least 20m.
My point isn't to say that these names aren't valid, but realistically the alternatives aren't particularly cheaper nor do they necessarily offer more guarantees. Thing is, money isn't Milan's biggest concern this summer and frankly if they intend to return to success (or at least CL football), they need to work to ensure they try to achieve their targets. Clearly with Mihajlovic the biggest target this summer is Romagnoli, so it's important for the club to do what's necessary to ensure this project is a success. Kondogbia, Bertolacci and Mauri were also clearly a part of this project and while we missed out on Kondogbia, we took what were considered necessary steps for the other two, such as overpaying or giving a contract to Mauri's brother. It's just the same for Romagnoli.
Hopefully something like 25 is accepted and we get him. May sound contradictory to 1000s of previous posts but this summer we must trust Miha and management, there is no alternative.
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