06-16-2011, 01:25 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2011, 01:33 AM by nefremo.)
Co-ownerships are usually done with clubs that you have good relationships with. So USUALLY (not always and not in ALL cases, but usually) there is an agreement already drawn up as to how it will all end up. Maybe not on paper, but a "gentleman's agreement".
It's evident that we have a great relationship with Genoa. So I am sure that there is some kind of agreement between the clubs. The final price is probably drawn up for next year. It may fluctuate 1/2 mil up or down, but for the most part I think most of it is already agreed upon.
I remember people were very fearful of the Boateng deal as well. People were saying that because of his good performances, Genoa was now going to ask a huge sum etc, etc. But it didn't happen, because obviously Galliani had an agreement. The same happened with Amelia (although that might have been a promise by Milan to buy him at the end of the season).
So my 2 cents would be to relax. Galliani knows what he is doing. And having said that, so does Preziosi. There might be a lot of reasons for this deal.
-We might need the cash for someone else! So we may not be ready to pay 15mil (the value of the player as said by Genoa) now, but will pay the rest next year.
-Genoa might need a player in the midfield but they might not have much cash either (or need it for someone else), so they take Merkel now.
-Etc,etc,etc........
My main point here is that, Genoa won't just raise the value of the player by 5,10 mil next year and do Milan up the butt. The two clubs have a great relationship and I'm sure a main agreement will be found right now. It'll just be carried out next year. If you remember, Preziosi a couple of weeks ago (before that big deal was concluded) said, "promises were made last summer, and i'm now just hoping that they are kept". And that's exactly what happened. We paid what they wanted (what was agreed for) for Boateng and retained Amelia. Then got some of our youngsters back. It almost seamed as if Preziosi was holding us hostage with co-owning some of our young stars, just to make sure that we kept our promise (pay the agreed price for Boateng and retainn Amelia). And as soon as that happened, we got the youngsters back.
So again, I am sure the agreement is there, and Preziosi won't just drive the price up by 10 mil next summer and then screw us over Merkel as well. It's not the way it works. Clubs have relationships between each other and most try to keep them positive. Although, I know that it's not always the case.
That's just my view on the matter. So I'm happy with this deal.
06-16-2011, 01:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2011, 01:42 AM by ElMago99.)
I like this little exchange here. Controversy is a good thing. Normally, I think CA Rosso talks to much and goes on tangent's but he's definitely onto something. It makes sense that South American teams (at least in past) have made money by hyping players than selling them for inflated prices. I don't get that feeling in Italy as much, but certainly in England they hype their players insanely.
In regards to this lad El Shaarawi, apparently he's very talented, young, and Mezz' Italiano. I am not crazy about losing Merkel, as I had counted on him for next season, but maybe El Shaarawi is Mister X, since Galliani's idead of Cesc will fail. lol
Also, I'm not questioning Galliani in regards to the Co-Ownerships, but I don't like them. I'm in Reza's camp regarding this topic. I don't see how it makes sense. How do they decide where the player plays every season?
Furthermore, when it's time to sell to an outside club, how do both teams agree to sell at a particular price? What if Genoa needs cash and wants to sell at any price point whereas Milan want top dollar??? It gets silly IMO....
DO both teams pay the wages? Will we get Merkel back next season or do we have to pay out for him? It's all too complicated...
Frankly, I don't see how all of this Cozyness seen between Genoa & Milan should even be allowed. It's as if they're 1 team. There were over 5+ players that went back and forth in past year or at least contracts shared.. very strange and I don't know how it's allowed:
Amelia, Kaladze, Strasser, Zigoni, Merkel, Papastathopoulos, Boateng, Paloschi, El Shaarawi, etc etc (Criscito deal collapsed)./..
(06-16-2011, 01:34 AM)ElMago99 Wrote: Frankly, I don't see how all of this Cozyness seen between Genoa & Milan should even be allowed. It's as if they're 1 team. There were over 5+ players that went back and forth in past year or at least contracts shared.. very strange and I don't know how it's allowed:
Amelia, Kaladze, Strasser, Zigoni, Merkel, Papastathopoulos, Boateng, Paloschi, El Shaarawi, etc etc (Criscito deal collapsed)./..
Amen! 
Seriously, I hope there's nothing shady going on here. Sure seems suspicious...
(06-16-2011, 01:34 AM)ElMago99 Wrote: Frankly, I don't see how all of this Cozyness seen between Genoa & Milan should even be allowed. It's as if they're 1 team. There were over 5+ players that went back and forth in past year or at least contracts shared.. very strange and I don't know how it's allowed:
Amelia, Kaladze, Strasser, Zigoni, Merkel, Papastathopoulos, Boateng, Paloschi, El Shaarawi, etc etc (Criscito deal collapsed)./..
I have alluded to this on the old and new forum. I have always said that I am convinced that co-ownerships exist because of some "not on the pitch" benefit, something to do with finances or taxes or something. Also they almost never exist outside of Italy, not in this form any way.
Honestly, I think I will be good friends with clubs who actually bought Kala off Milan. Maybe Oddo will be next.
I really can't believe some of you think Italy does not hype their youngsters. When Bonera and Legro first appeared they were suppose to be the next Nesta and Canna. Cigani was supposed to be the next Pirlo. and the list goes on and on and on. Youngster are always going to be hype by their own media. The difference is how much info can we access. For example, we are watch Serie A pretty closely, thus we also get access to MULTI media outlets from Italy. On top of that, if someone like El Sharr is being hype as the next Messi. We all get a chance to watch him closely for more than a few games. Does we can judge if he is the real deal or not. Same thing goes for EPL, Liga and Budles. On top of that, we can watch him in CL, if his team is playing there. Something we really can't do if the player plays in Brazil or Argentina or Czech.
Lastly, players response differently to different systems and environments. We all say T. Silva is the best defender in the world....but 6 yrs ago, he was a huge flop and I doubt anyone in the world including himself believes that he will become the best defender one day.
so, how official is this El Shaarawy deal?
(06-16-2011, 05:49 AM)xudong Wrote: so, how official is this El Shaarawy deal?
by my standards, I would say 80% official 
I think it will be official by the end of today.
(06-16-2011, 01:25 AM)nefremo Wrote: Co-ownerships are usually done with clubs that you have good relationships with. So USUALLY (not always and not in ALL cases, but usually) there is an agreement already drawn up as to how it will all end up. Maybe not on paper, but a "gentleman's agreement".
It's evident that we have a great relationship with Genoa. So I am sure that there is some kind of agreement between the clubs. The final price is probably drawn up for next year. It may fluctuate 1/2 mil up or down, but for the most part I think most of it is already agreed upon.
I remember people were very fearful of the Boateng deal as well. People were saying that because of his good performances, Genoa was now going to ask a huge sum etc, etc. But it didn't happen, because obviously Galliani had an agreement. The same happened with Amelia (although that might have been a promise by Milan to buy him at the end of the season).
So my 2 cents would be to relax. Galliani knows what he is doing. And having said that, so does Preziosi. There might be a lot of reasons for this deal.
-We might need the cash for someone else! So we may not be ready to pay 15mil (the value of the player as said by Genoa) now, but will pay the rest next year.
-Genoa might need a player in the midfield but they might not have much cash either (or need it for someone else), so they take Merkel now.
-Etc,etc,etc........
My main point here is that, Genoa won't just raise the value of the player by 5,10 mil next year and do Milan up the butt. The two clubs have a great relationship and I'm sure a main agreement will be found right now. It'll just be carried out next year. If you remember, Preziosi a couple of weeks ago (before that big deal was concluded) said, "promises were made last summer, and i'm now just hoping that they are kept". And that's exactly what happened. We paid what they wanted (what was agreed for) for Boateng and retained Amelia. Then got some of our youngsters back. It almost seamed as if Preziosi was holding us hostage with co-owning some of our young stars, just to make sure that we kept our promise (pay the agreed price for Boateng and retainn Amelia). And as soon as that happened, we got the youngsters back.
So again, I am sure the agreement is there, and Preziosi won't just drive the price up by 10 mil next summer and then screw us over Merkel as well. It's not the way it works. Clubs have relationships between each other and most try to keep them positive. Although, I know that it's not always the case.
That's just my view on the matter. So I'm happy with this deal.
Nice post. Thanks.
"When Costacurta and Maldini won they didn't celebrate much. They were thinking about winning the next game" - Alessandro Nesta
When was the last time we bought a player from serie B?
To my knowledge in 2000 when we bought Gianni Comandini, then a 23 yo striker whose 20 goals helped his team win the competition and promotion to serie A. Later on he played in 13 games and scored 2 (both on that famous tennis match again Merda) and was sold/traded the next season.
Around the same time we bought from relegated Monza a 19 yo midfielder named Drazen Brncic. Damn, I don't even remember saw him played for once.
per l'amaro e il dolce
(06-16-2011, 07:33 AM)Siregar Wrote: Nice post. Thanks.
No!!! It's not nice because I was about to post exactly the same points lol 
nefremo always makes good posts, always a pleasure to read them.
@ CA Rossonero, I don't want to go into detail with this, but I think to some extent Hitman is right. You're clearly intelligent and have a good knowledge of football, and I often find I agree with your tactical arguments. However, it would be good to respect posters more, as your arguments tend to degenerate to pretty much petty insults (not just you, but often also whoever you argue with). It's a shame, given I think you have some very good points to make in your posts.
|
