40M is a very large sum for Donna. As impressive as he has been, that's almost the price of the best keeper in the world, and Donna is nowhere near that level yet. His progression could also stall for a number of different reasons in the next few seasons, so it is a gamble either way for us. We could sell him and take the risk of him developing into one of the world's finest GK for the next 15 years; or keep him and take the risk of him not developing well DES style. Tough call.
I for one am not very sentimental when it comes to players. Players come and go, the club is the one thing that sticks around forever. Like somebody said, if selling Donna gives us two or three high quality players and make the team stronger, then I am all for it. But with Galli and Berlu in charge, the odds of that happening is almost non-existent. So we are better off keeping him around and try to develop him correctly.
Where is Galliani? 
Former Juventus striker Nicklas Bendtner has been excluded from Wolfsburg training.
Having not played for the first team since February, and facing a number of disciplinary issues, the former Arsenal man has been excluded by his club.
04-01-2016, 02:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2016, 02:50 AM by nefremo.)
(03-31-2016, 10:34 PM)slifersd Wrote: 40M is a very large sum for Donna. As impressive as he has been, that's almost the price of the best keeper in the world, and Donna is nowhere near that level yet. His progression could also stall for a number of different reasons in the next few seasons, so it is a gamble either way for us. We could sell him and take the risk of him developing into one of the world's finest GK for the next 15 years; or keep him and take the risk of him not developing well DES style. Tough call.
I for one am not very sentimental when it comes to players. Players come and go, the club is the one thing that sticks around forever. Like somebody said, if selling Donna gives us two or three high quality players and make the team stronger, then I am all for it. But with Galli and Berlu in charge, the odds of that happening is almost non-existent. So we are better off keeping him around and try to develop him correctly.
You can't compare Donnarumma's development and De Sciglio's or most other players for example. At his best, De Sciglio still had a long way to go. Everyone (myself included) was basing his future on the account that he will keep growing but we all knew that if he doesn't keep improving he simply isn't good enough. In Donnarumma's case, even if he stops developing/improving today, he is still a top goalkeeper even the way he is right now. There is not much to lose.
I am not sentimental when it comes to players too. I could care less. This isn't about being sentimental and wanting a player to stay in Milan no matter if that means the club moves forward or not with that player. This is in fact about the club for me. I don't believe that the way forward is to get rid of a starting GK at 17 in order to get 40mil Euro.
What can we get with 40mil? Bacca costed 30mil man. This team needs 4-5 strong starters (AT LEAST) to be a contender in Europe and Italy (looking at Juventus). We are not going to get those 4-5 players with 40mil....so we may as well keep our future, keep our best performing current players and take it slow in developing the team a couple great players per year just like how we did last summer. That also means that we can't sign a couple great player but also sell 1 or 2 or we'll find ourselves walking in place.
If you tell me that selling Donnarumma will for example mean getting Berardi, Benatia, Witsel, Vazquez, Vrsaljko.....than ok. It may be a sacrifice worth making depending on how you look at it. But that won't happen. Because other clubs won't sell that easy. Sassuolo won't sell Berrardi for less than 30mil (yes Juventus has a clause for 25, but that's Juventus......they'll want higher bids and make Juve match that. That price is only for Juventus, not for anyone else) and Vrsaljko for less than 20; Witsel won't go for less than 25 (EVEN with only 1 year left in his contract), Vazquez will be AT LEAST 20 knowing Zamparini, and I'm not sure about Benatia...but any top CB will cost at least in the mid 20s. I just threw those names out there as an example....you can come up with as many others as you want of similar quality and the prices will be similar. Point being, even though selling Donnarumma will raise money...it won't fix the squad in itself. I would rather keep the kid and maybe get 1-2 of those players and continue the rebuilding over a couple of years while also having Donnarumma here.
Just my 2 cents...
04-01-2016, 02:39 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2016, 02:50 AM by WCmilan.)
40M wont get you two or three high quality players. We need to replace a goalkeeper who's been playing at a very high standard, how much do you think it will cost to replace him? At least 20m I'd say, and that gets you someone like Sirigu, short term solution who's at his ceiling. You want someone like Courtois (sp?) would still cost 40m. Ter Stegen? Probably near the same. So selling him for 40m will not get us any quality players, it'll replace him with a fill in keeper and maybe have a few cents left over for another fodder. Even if we got 60m for him I just don't see it making the difference, and another factor is that he's homegrown and Italian.
As ludicrous as it sounds, at this point I'd let him go for 80+M, no less, because less, after we buy a GK, will not make us a much better club at all. We can't look at DES, or Pato or anyone. Basing choices off of those examples is lacking any logic, because every player is different; mentality, growth, potential, everything. And as many examples of players who stayed and failed, there are players who left and succeeded like Aubameyang and Darmian, or players who stayed and also succeeded like most of our legends. Bottom line, nobody knows what the future holds and going off of failed prospects is a bad way to determine a completely different players success.
I'm not sentimental at all either, like you guys said. For example, if we needed to generate 40m off a big sale, I would make it the most logical one. First thing I'd ask is who can fetch us 40m in the first place, then off of that list (probably only two players in this side) I'd weigh out our options and see who is more logical to sell. I'd get rid of someone like Bacca between those two, because he's pushing 30. Again though, sales like that just take away pieces of the team that actually work, and it'll cost the same thing to replace them. What we should be focusing on is getting rid of fodders and if all of them combined generate 40-50m use it, and properly. After that, I'm afraid we have no choice but to spend out of our pocket.
He by himself won't win us titles, so 'not taking' the 40 means nothing if it isn't complimented by lots more. Also, before the end of the 15 years he will ask to leave if we are not a competing team.
Not even Messi guarantees winning us titles. But taking the 40 means we need to spend at least half of it finding a good goalkeeper, and maybe we'll get another good player out of it afterwards but my point is, we're really only profiting about 20mln out of the deal and not the full 40 because we'd still need to buy a keeper to replace him. So it's not like we can revamp the entire team with that money. We also lose a young super prospect who could've been a pillar for the team.
My point is, if we have something good we should hold onto it and build around it. If we need to generate 20m we should sell in other areas.
why do we need to buy another GK?
we have lopez and other youngster
(04-01-2016, 02:37 AM)nefremo Wrote: You can't compare Donnarumma's development and De Sciglio's or most other players for example. At his best, De Sciglio still had a long way to go. Everyone (myself included) was basing his future on the account that he will keep growing but we all knew that if he doesn't keep improving he simply isn't good enough. In Donnarumma's case, even if he stops developing/improving today, he is still a top goalkeeper even the way he is right now. There is not much to lose.
I am not sentimental when it comes to players too. I could care less. This isn't about being sentimental and wanting a player to stay in Milan no matter if that means the club moves forward or not with that player. This is in fact about the club for me. I don't believe that the way forward is to get rid of a starting GK at 17 in order to get 40mil Euro.
What can we get with 40mil? Bacca costed 30mil man. This team needs 4-5 strong starters (AT LEAST) to be a contender in Europe and Italy (looking at Juventus). We are not going to get those 4-5 players with 40mil....so we may as well keep our future, keep our best performing current players and take it slow in developing the team a couple great players per year just like how we did last summer. That also means that we can't sign a couple great player but also sell 1 or 2 or we'll find ourselves walking in place.
If you tell me that selling Donnarumma will for example mean getting Berardi, Benatia, Witsel, Vazquez, Vrsaljko.....than ok. It may be a sacrifice worth making depending on how you look at it. But that won't happen. Because other clubs won't sell that easy. Sassuolo won't sell Berrardi for less than 30mil (yes Juventus has a clause for 25, but that's Juventus......they'll want higher bids and make Juve match that. That price is only for Juventus, not for anyone else) and Vrsaljko for less than 20; Witsel won't go for less than 25 (EVEN with only 1 year left in his contract), Vazquez will be AT LEAST 20 knowing Zamparini, and I'm not sure about Benatia...but any top CB will cost at least in the mid 20s. I just threw those names out there as an example....you can come up with as many others as you want of similar quality and the prices will be similar. Point being, even though selling Donnarumma will raise money...it won't fix the squad in itself. I would rather keep the kid and maybe get 1-2 of those players and continue the rebuilding over a couple of years while also having Donnarumma here.
Just my 2 cents...
You are right, it is certainly not fair to compare Donna and DES. But my point was not to compare the two players specifically but rather illustrate a point that young players do not always develop the way we want them to. DES is an easy target to pick on now, but during his debut season, more than one expert out there were throughly impressed by him and amazed by how well he handled himself despite being a first year player. There were many experts and fans out there going "If he can play this well, even if he doesn't get better, he'd still be a good player for us". Fast forward a few years later, DES is garbage and many of us want him sold ASAP.
Developing young players is an art, not a science. There is no magical formula that can guarantee success. Many young players looked amazing at a young age, and ended up regressing over the course of their career. If you don't want to believe me, take a look at guys like Balotelli, Bendtner, Anderson (old Man U midfielder), or Deisler, and see how much they regressed as their careers went on. This is, of course, NOT to say that Donna is on the same path to mediocrity. I am simply pointing out one possible outcome, not saying it will surely happen. For all I know, Donna is the new Buffon.
Player prices certainly have been going crazy, which led to a lot of fans thinking it would take a billion dollars just to build one good team. But the reality is, many clubs around the world are making smart investments and reaping the benefits of that. Sure, even Bacca cost 30M, but how much did Dortmund pay for Aubameyang? 13M! How much did Juventus pay for Pogba? Zero! How much did Roma pay for Pjanic? 11M! If we do our homework and seize the opportunities in the market, 40M can add a great deal of quality to this team. Contrary to popular belief, spending 150M on transfers every season isn't the only way to achieve success, even in today's hyper inflated market. Of course, I am not suggesting that Galliani is capable of doing this, just saying it is a possibility.
At the end of the day, I am with most of you. I don't want Donna sold. Partially because I think he can be a special player, and partially because I don't think Galliani would know what to do with that money.
04-01-2016, 12:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2016, 12:42 PM by nefremo.)
If our transfer budget is so low that we have to sell out 17 yr old GK to raise money.....than our problems are much bigger then we all think they are and we can forget about those smart investments. Those smart investments are just as much unknowns as Donnarumma. Pogba, Aubameyang....they were unknowns when signed just like Donnarumma is now. So selling one unknown just to get a couple others doesn't guarantee anything. Pjanic on the other hand is an exception. I have no clue how he was signed for so cheap.
I mentioned those players because they bring certain guarantees. And I think we should only sell Donna to get guarantees.
We should have enough money this summer to get a few players and improve without selling him and that remains as the best option in my opinion.
I suspect that we'll have around 30-40 mil to spend especially if we make the EL and sell some deadwood.
If we don't have that budget and have to sell Donnarumma....we are in some shit anyway...
We'll also have a huge loss and will have to bring it down to fall in line with FFP...Sure FFP doesnt apply to the Reals Barcas Citys PSG but as we saw with Roma Malaga etc... it will be enforced
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