Not feeling bitter this morning, I think this tie served to provide a valuable learning experience for our players who got to face a wide variety of experiences in European football within 2 ties. What's positive is we showed last night that we're capable of making noise in Europe and can cause difficulties to high profile sides.
I think it highlighted a few improvements we need too. I think a top midfield general is needed. Really like the links to Vidal lately in part because he fits the profile of such a player. Then in attack, we need a top marksman who can help turn the direction of a tight tie. Finally, we need one addition of someone out wide that can create difficulties in 1 v 1 situations. We know these areas needed improvement, last night was just sort of further evidence of that.
We need to really focus on the league now.
On a side note how did people find the 4-4-2? I've been suggesting it for a little while now (not that I'm opposed to 4-3-3 by any means) and I felt last night was a good indicator for what can be expected with the system. It reduces our possession game as often we're at a numerical disadvantage in central midfield, but allows for more intense pressing imo and if correctly applied, gives us balance and flexibility in equal measure.
(03-16-2018, 10:51 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: On a side note how did people find the 4-4-2? I've been suggesting it for a little while now (not that I'm opposed to 4-3-3 by any means) and I felt last night was a good indicator for what can be expected with the system. It reduces our possession game as often we're at a numerical disadvantage in central midfield, but allows for more intense pressing imo and if correctly applied, gives us balance and flexibility in equal measure.
Didn't see the game ...
But I would tend to say that this formation should be used only when we want to force a result : I mean, Gattuso mustn't erase what he has built so far by doing Montella-esque choices (changing tactics, etc). In Serie A, the 4-3-3 showed itself effective with our players, and the results speak for that.
On paper though, it's sure that having both Cutrone and André Silva playing together and creating an association would be quite amazing ...
One should not speak ill of the dead.
So stop laughing at Juventus !
The first 25mins it looked like we were playing vs Pep's Barcelona and not Arsenal. Our pressing was bad and segmented and we made too many mistakes on the ball. Montolivo for example gave it up every other time he touched it.
Things got a little better from there on, but that horrible call killed our confidence while Arsenal was relaxed again. It would have been different if we went into the break a goal up.
Regardless, Arsenal was the better, crisper team 9ver the 2 legs. We made too many technical mistakes and didn't create enough.
I don't agree with some of the assessments coming out of Mirabelli, Gattuso and the players that we were equal to Arsenal. I know it's expected that they say that, but we were not equal to Arsenal. They turned out to be the better team over the 2 games.
I hope the management realizes this. The parts in this team that need to be upgraded were on full display. For me, this wasn't about formation or attitude, or experience. We just didn't have/show enough quality.
I remember at one point in the 1st half, we finally got some sustained possession in their half, and Hakan misplaced and "easy" pass to Silva....everyone had to run 40meters back from quite advanced positions becsuse of this and then we had to defend for 3-4 minutes again. I'm not blaming Hakan or saying he is shit. I am just using this instance as an example, because it kept happening throughout the 2 games.
Again, for probably the 100th time, I'll say that we are in dire need of a pacey, 1v1 player. If we sre going to use wingers, we need wingers. Not AMs playing as wingers. Let's hope that this changes over the summer.
In any case, let's now focus on Serie A where we have a real chance of taking 4th spot. Hoping for a big win this weekend so that the players can quickly forget about Arsenal.
03-16-2018, 01:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2018, 02:07 PM by ACMILAN1983.)
Geo, I agree that Gattuso shouldn't be looking to make sudden and significant changes to what he's building, but for me I think we can evolve towards a more aggressive approach. The 4-4-2 yesterday was meant to provide a more aggressive press, something which didn't work in the initial stages of the match, but improved over the course of the game (at least until Arsenal's second goal).
Right now, our style of play is quite pragmatic in the way we defend and how deep. However, I think to return to the levels we want to we will need to spend time building to learn to try and dominate games with our press. For me this is something the 4-4-2 Gattuso has been shifting to in matches offers that our standard 4-3-3 doesn't. That isn't to say I'm against sticking to 4-3-3, as I outlined in a recent post in the mercato thread, formations to me are less important than how players interpret them. What's valuable to see is that under Gattuso, players don't appear to be confused about their role, even when shifting to a more aggressive 4-4-2, unlike under Montella where we had formations, but there was constant confusion on individual roles and responsibilities.
nefremo, I think your points are true and valid. However, I do think the assessment is a little harsh given where we are as a club. We have only been growing as a team for about 3 months (everything under Montella was regressive rather than progressive), there's still a long way to go before things are more natural and automated.
I do completely agree that in the early stages of the match we looked at times overwhelmed by Arsenal. I mentioned it in multiple posts during the course of the game that we were just dropping too deep and showing too much respect and inexperience in those moments. I think psychologically, the team weren't ready to have a go at Arsenal and weren't totally confident in themselves. That said, I do think that opening period was still significantly better than a week ago where we looked like we did under Montella again.
I don't think we should underestimate the ref's influence either. Gattuso is right not to focus on him, but penalty incidents aside (at least three of them), the ref was nothing short of ridiculous last night. The constant calls against us significantly impacts the momentum of the match, so the fact that we were dominant for a long stretch of the game where we could have made a comeback shouldn't be undervalued imo.
I think it's fair to say Arsenal were the better team in the first leg, it would be ridiculous to try and suggest otherwise. However, I think yesterday was a balanced game and if we don't count the period where we gave up after going 2-1 down, then I would even argue we had the better of the game (which I consider impressive as we're coming from very far down). That isn't to say we were great, we had some things that clearly need work and as you say, there are some areas where we do need to improve in terms of the players we have.
However, on the flip side I think coming from where we are, we put in a very respectable performance. Again, you can see that the team dynamics between the two sides are completely different. Arsenal may not be in a great state, but they've got experience and automated movements in place that we simply can't match in 3 months of growth. We should expect improvements and if we continue the work we've been doing under Gattuso and get a few valuable additions, in a year's time the conversation will be very different.
Over the course of two legs Arsenal deserved to go through, but I think there was some important growth for us and with more confidence and a little less "bad luck" (read: shitty refeering), we could have very well seen a positive result.
Edit: Forgot to comment on Gattuso too, as we have to remember this is his first time coaching at European level. I'm really pleased with the improvements and changes he made for this match, he showed growth himself imo and I think it's an experience that's just as valuable to him as it is for the players.
