Poll: European Super League with 15+5 teams?
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Yes, mo' money mo' money
30.00%
3 30.00%
No, UEFA is evil but better than this new ESL
70.00%
7 70.00%
Total 10 vote(s) 100%
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European Super League
#91
This is not a UEFA defense but it has been owners starting from Berlusconi who said the wages are not sustainable, he said it way before FFP. The decline of Serie A and revenues is not due to UEFA alone, actually not much due to them at all. Their punishments of us were dumb and pointless and FFP is far from a good solution in the way it operates but massive losses are happening independent of UEFA and no one would be able to live with them. Well unless we have a PSG type owner in which case a segment of fans won't like that either.
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#92
(04-19-2021, 11:41 AM)nefremo Wrote: The current system, the current "great system"...has created an environment where 12 out of the 1000s clubs in Europe, can decide to destroy it.
So then...is it that great? 
So spare me the bullshit of how the current system is some kind of holy grail. The system died in the 90s. When everyone, EVERYONE, gave in to the greed. We used to see Milan with 7 Italians and 3 foreigners. Of the 7, many came from the academy. We used to see Steaua Bucurest in European Cup finals. We witnessed Red Star belgrade win a European Cup. Because the competition was level.

They (everyone, EVERYONE, not just the big clubs) destroyed THAT football. It's been destroyed for years now. Yet nobody complained because it benefited them one way or another, and they could line their pockets. Not that even that's being threatened, NOW everyone wants to start a revolution.

Agree with most of what you said but this stuff in Particular. 
Football died the minute leagues scrapped rules like the # of foreigners allowed in the team.

(04-19-2021, 12:58 PM)Sampinjon Wrote: Exactly that. What is criteria for "the best"? 

Lets be honest here... WHat Kind of a "CHampions" league is it when there's teams in there that finished in 3rd and 4th? 

(04-19-2021, 02:33 PM)nefremo Wrote: It's getting crazy.

But I still don't have an answer. I don't see why the leagues are so upset? These clubs said they will CONTINUE to play in their respective leagues. They just refuse to play in a UEFA organized European competition (CL or Europa League). Again...they did not say they will break out from their countries.
UEFA is the one getting discredited here. NOT Serie A, or EPL, or La Liga, etc.

It's just somethign designed to add pressure on the clubs leaving. Ultimately they'll buckle because the leagues would crumble without the teams that are joining the ESL.

(04-19-2021, 07:51 PM)ACM2021 Wrote: One more hypothetical question: Imagine a Leeds player gets a chance to play for Liverpool, would he choose the money/fame (but may get banned from NT), or will he choose to stay and “earn it”? This is the intrinsic property (self interest in human nature) that makes the problem a perpetual one.

Of course the Leeds player will sign for the club he's "supported as a child". At the end of the day, all these guys will do anything for money. They can talk all they want but everyone has their price.
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#93
Ultimately, we've been building toward something like this for quite some time. Now it's here everyone's having a cry but it began over 20 years ago.
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#94
If anybody has doubts this is bad you should read the current Florentino Perez interview, interview given tonight Europe time. he is saying kids don't find current formats exciting and only 5 billion will save the clubs. The justification for it is almost worse than the actual super league.
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#95
At least he was honest. Haha
"We need money, and with more money we can buy the players of smaller clubs and help them". Not word for ford...but more or less what he said. Big Grin
The nerve on this dude. Unreal. He doesn't give a damn. He basically said Real Madrid (and others) will not survive at the current rate. So "we need more money". Haha

It seems to me that these clubs have been working on this for a long time...likely since the G14 days in the early 2000s. I also think they've been pushing UEFA for something similar to this, but UEFA refused. Maybe a staggered CL with multiple levels? Essentially a CL with multiple levels, where promotion and relegation between levels is possible...but at least you don't risk losing out on all the money completely by having an off year in your national championship. In any case...it's no coincidence 6 EPL teams are in it. The CL doesn't have room for all of them. So they made room themselves by making their own competition.

I'm obviously making all this up. But just trying to read between the lines of what he said.especially about Napoli/Roma having the opportunity to join some day.

At least Perez said they're willing to negotiate with UEFA/FIFA. So i guess it's not all over yet...but it sure as hell looks like there is no way back now.
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#96
Let's put UEFA aside for a moment. The main victims here are domestic leagues and clubs left out. What is the point of any domestic league if you already have predetermined who plays the elite. You are basically killing all outsider clubs, while our AC could play Serie b and still stay in this circus. I still can't understand that anyone could take this as a positive thing. As for the salaries, as I said, this is on big clubs. Some of them used it as a way to stay on top, but seems that the player quality has become pretty much level lately, so the smaller clubs are becoming more competitive. Just take a look how tight it is in first 7 in our league, and even more in PL. This is not a war against UEFA, this is a war against smaller clubs. They want to deny them a cake now that they are deservedly near getting a piece. Real and others have big franchises, they can sell Real burgers, or Real movies, or make Real Disneyland to generate money, but we can't let them destroy everything around them so they could suck out more from the football core.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
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#97
(04-20-2021, 10:05 AM)Jovola Wrote:  I still can't understand that anyone could take this as a positive thing.

Selfish people like Perez. Those types of "personalities" supports this. Just ME ,ME ,ME and ME ,MY needs , MY desires and don't care for the rest. And gold diggers (There is better word to describe ,but...) who ,when they saw budget ,$$ pops in their eyes and drools run down their chins. From there you can read all kinds of their "justifications" and "rationalisations" and be disgusted... Devilumpf
Avaiting for arrival of exorcist into our boardroom.
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#98
La Repubblica reports the great tension was especially aimed at the Bianconeri President, who provoked a reaction with his response to the concern of the other clubs.

“With €350m a year guaranteed, the Scudetto will always be won by Juventus, Milan and Inter,” the newspaper reports the owners and directors pointed out during the conference call.

The Juventus patron (Andrea Agnelli) then replied: “But it has been like this for 80 years, I believe.”



So now Milan, Inter and Juventus are bffs...
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#99
Playing devil's advocate here

Clubs have been happy to compete in a secondary European competition like the UEFA Cup/Europa League for years. They did it for a little bit of money. They had no problem with it. We can argue until tomorrow that it was for "prestige"...but we all know that's not true and that ended in the 90s. I mean, ffs we have people here saying we should purposely miss out on the EL so our players don't get tired.

So then....what's the real problem if there is a shift, and the CL becomes that secondary competition? It'll still provide money for clubs. Just not as much as the ESL. You can actually have it to where the clubs doing well in the CL, qualify for the ESL next season.
But I'll tell you what the problem is.....UEFA is losing it's grip on the money and it's undermined. Yes, there are also problems with the 15 guaranteed spots. I don't agree with that. If these clubs can figure out a way to change that, then this is no different then the current CL. Only that it's not governed by UEFA.
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(04-20-2021, 12:46 PM)Arildonardo Wrote: La Repubblica reports the great tension was especially aimed at the Bianconeri President, who provoked a reaction with his response to the concern of the other clubs.

“With €350m a year guaranteed, the Scudetto will always be won by Juventus, Milan and Inter,” the newspaper reports the owners and directors pointed out during the conference call.

The Juventus patron (Andrea Agnelli) then replied: “But it has been like this for 80 years, I believe.”



So now Milan, Inter and Juventus are bffs...

What Agnelli said is so true. Those clubs are rich and fans MUST know that. And now they are against ESL, really funny. They might think Milan could dominate in Europe without splashing money for players.  Icon_lol2
"When Costacurta and Maldini won they didn't celebrate much. They were thinking about winning the next game" - Alessandro Nesta
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