World Cup 2022 - Qatar
(12-19-2022, 12:22 AM)nefremo Wrote: I would only call him the greatest of his generation/era. Even than, there are other positions to consider and not only those that score/assist. I think it's impossible to compare players between eras. So calling Messi greater than others from other eras is, in my opinion, silly. There are just too many variables in play. Variables that are uncomparable.

Also, I'm no C.Ronaldo fan.....but how quickly people forget is crazy. The amount of goals he scored across 3 of the top European leagues is insane. The trophies with R.Madrid he won. It's crazy to not consider all of that, and honestly, impossible to say who the greater player was between him and Messi. In the end, it comes down to a preference of style.

I believe many people would agree that this is between Messi, C.Ronaldo, Maradona and Pele. 

These 4 players have been called goat by millions of people around the world in different times. Zidane was amazing. Socrates. Garrincha. Van Basten. And I am sure we can find some people claiming Zidane as the greatest ever but he is not considered like that by millions from all different areas of the world. These 4 however, are or were all goats once upon a time. 

When you narrow the names down to 4, it is inevitable to make a comparison between each other. I mean yes comparing ronaldo to pele or messi to maradona might sound silly, I get it. But this discussion will go on regardless of what we believe. 

C. Ronaldo was like a machine in his prime. He has seasons like 45 goals and 20 assists, wining CL and all. But Messi was doing the same numbers. He won Champions League five times, but Messi won it 4 times too. They played in the same era, same league together, that made this topic so fun for everybody and now one of them got the WC, which, you know, brings some benefits.
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This Argentina squad was not amazing either. Acuña, meh. Julian Alvarez way too young and definitely not among the best 5 strikers of the tournament... Molina, eh. Mac Allister, meh... They still play with  old Otamendi and sometimes with the retard Lautaro...

About the tournament...Croatia did well. Again. Scaloni deserves a praise. Emiliano Martinez too... Mbappe definitely was amazing in every single game. And Messi, yes he deserved winning this. 35 years old but 19 goals and 19 assists in 27 games so far this season.
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(12-19-2022, 12:22 AM)nefremo Wrote: I would only call him the greatest of his generation/era. Even than, there are other positions to consider and not only those that score/assist. I think it's impossible to compare players between eras. So calling Messi greater than others from other eras is, in my opinion, silly. There are just too many variables in play. Variables that are uncomparable.

Also, I'm no C.Ronaldo fan.....but how quickly people forget is crazy. The amount of goals he scored across 3 of the top European leagues is insane. The trophies with R.Madrid he won. It's crazy to not consider all of that, and honestly, impossible to say who the greater player was between him and Messi. In the end, it comes down to a preference of style.

I would consider both Pele and Maradona above Messi and Ronaldo, former played in the era which had ruthless defenders and ruthless rules, Maradona used to literally manhandled if defenders not able to contain him, Claudio Gentile vs Maradona in 1982 is an example, any modern attacker would literally shit in his pants facing Gentile but still Maradona still survives 90 min of harressment and about Pele, idk why People make fun of him that he never played in Europe blah blah blah, European football at that time was at Dormant stage and literally most of Brazilian footballers used to play in  their league. Scoring hattrick in WC final against Europe's finest team of that team is not anyone's cup of cake.
You fear because you live without Love Pioli
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What a World Cup. Exhilarating final was the cherry on top.

Messi is truly one of the best players ever. I know we cant compare him to other legends like Pele and Maradona because of different eras, different types of balls etc. But its not like he didnt face tough defenders. Ramos and Pepe the Animal are the ppl he had to put up with every season. Personally, Zidane is the best player for me, because when he plays the whole team performs and football is a team game.

Messi and Argentina truly deserves this world cup after their performance. Congrats to Argentina
AC MILAN
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Messi benefited greatly from Barcelona's high pressing game his whole career. Scored a ton of goals because of that. Others do as well. Simply they would win the ball back in the final third, which means you are already (mostly) in a goal scoring opportunity.

So you see...in the 80s and early 90s, that wasn't possible. Because you could pass the ball back to the GK and he could simply pick ut up. Hence, no high pressing existed. There was no need for it. The rule didn't change until after the 1992 European Championship. Even than, you could still throw the ball to your GK from a throw-in and he could pick it up. That aspect didn't get changed until later on in the 90s.
There are other influences as well. Like the passive offside rule that didn't change for a long after that.

So I'm not taking anything away from Messi. He adapted to HIS era and was/is top. If he played in the 80s, maybe he was going to adapt to that also and be at the top. BUT, the problem is we simply don't know. Same thing with others that played in different eras. They adapted to that. Were they going to be able to adapt today? Who knows. With their ability, probably. But we don't know. Same for Messi.
For example, if MVB scored the goals he scored with those rules in the 80s/90s....how many could he score in today's game where the rules are adapted to aid attackers??? How about Maradona? Etc.

This is why, even though I know this conversation will never end, it's really childish to compare players from different eras. When even the rules themselves aren't the same. Let alone competition, facilities, equipment, training, etc. You name it.
And with that said, how can we even compare # of goals and assists? I just gave one big example of why attackers scored less back in the 80s/90s. When you can't high press and the other team can just backpass to the GK every time they are in trouble or have no way of going forward....of course you won't score as much.
How about field conditions? Does anyone remember Xavi, Messi and Iniesta complaining about state of the pitches in some places (they did it for San Siro as well once or twice) after not winning or losing games? Field is shit and they can't play their game. Ok. I get it. But try playing in the 80s/90s. Watch a game and see the pitches. They are like potato fields in the winter. Wonder what Xavi and Messi would have done than? Let's not even talk about earlier than that. Some fields were more dirt and mud than grass.

So again...let's talk about greatest players of a certain era. No problem. Messi would be up there for his. But comparing him against players in other eras? Not possible. Not for me. Makes no sense.
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I think that this world cup was great. There were different national teams that played really well (Japan, Morocco). In my opinion, Argentina was a fair champion.
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I have a confession to make. Big Grin I have watched a total of 4 or 5 full games only. I did watch most 5-minute highlights though, but just didn't feel interested.

I didn't even watch the final. I was supporting France only for Theo and Giroud (also, Argentina is the one team that I have disliked throughout my life Icon_lol2 but I like Messi, and wouldn't mind if he got something nice. Big Grin

In fact I planned to watch the final, but didn't realize that it was on 10am. (I thought that it would be in 2PM EST, and didn't bother to check). I was in the mall with wife in the morning and I saw the game was already on. I was like, what? France losing? Giroud off already? So early? Theo off already? The hell with it. I couldn't care a bit anymore. Icon_lol2
aka xudong
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