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The 6 Nations starts tomorrow so I thought it would be a good time to start a thread on rugby where we can discuss the 6 Nations, the Heinken Cup , the Lions Tour, Tri-Nations and the world cup in a few years. There should be a bit of interest in rugby from members from Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France, Italy, Australia and New zealand.
I think we should concentrate on 6 nations for awhile and then onto the Heineken Cup etc when the q/finals take place. Munster is my local team in that, was at the Heinken Cup semi final last year when we lost to London wasps eventual champions. wasps have however been knocked out in the group stage this year, Munster still there but not playing as well as last year. I think Toulouse will win this year.
For those of you who dont know the Heinken Cup is rugby's equivalent to the champions league while the 6 Nations is international and similar to the european championship.
the 6 nations matches at the weekend are Wales V England, France v Scotland and Italy v Ireland. I am very hopeful this will be Irelands year after coming second for a few years. Our backline of Murphy, Horgan, Darcy, O' Driscoll (surely the lions captain?) and Hickie is our best ever back line. england and France will also fancy their chances and rightly so.
Here is a preview:
RBS 6 NATIONS TOURNAMENT 2005
Intriguing and involving as ever, the 2005 RBS 6 Nations Championship will be the absorbing highlight of the rugby year.
Champions France will need to be at the top of their game against the toughest opposition possible: world champions England, 2004 Triple Crown winners Ireland, resurgent Wales, ever-improving Italy and a Scotland side determined to forget last year's wooden spoon. French coach Bernard Laporte enjoyed a 2004 Grand Slam, but the Autumn revealed chinks in Les Bleus' armour.
Tough away matches at Twickenham and Lansdowne Road will be true tests of their title credentials.
England lost their grip on the title after a world-beating 2003. But in 2004, the red rose nation lost their northern hemisphere dominance and a list of championship winning players - and, ultimately, inspirational coach Sir Clive Woodward.
Woodward's deputy Andy Robinson has stepped in, and masterminded victory over Tri-Nations champions South Africa ahead of his debut RBS 6 Nations campaign.
In 2004, Eddie O'Sullivan's Ireland pushed France all the way, only blotting their copy book with defeat in Paris. England and France must travel to Ireland's Lansdowne Road stronghold, where victory is a Herculean task.
Ireland enter 2005 full of confidence following a clean sweep of Autumn victories and this well-balanced team could be celebrating success come March.
There is a real belief that Wales, under Mike Ruddock, are on the brink of something special.
Eleven years after their last Five Nations' Championship and following such promise under Steve Hansen, Ruddock's men are desperate to finally nail the major scalp. And how sweet it would be if they opened with a home win over England. Ruddock succeeded Hansen in 2004 and is committed to playing attractive, attacking rugby, with plenty of talent at his disposal.
John Kirwan's goal when taking over as Italy coach three years ago was to ensure the Azzurri remained competitive. And he believes they are. The coach, though, feels they must aim higher than their best-placed finish of fifth in 2004.
Autumn wins over Canada and USA raised spirits, but they were counter-balanced by defeats to Romania and a youthful New Zealand. Matt Williams knows Scotland must improve on their 2004 RBS 6 Nations whitewash.
Coming into 2005, Williams has found success hard to come by. But a season finale at Twickenham against the Auld Enemy awaits, and what better way would there be to sign off?
Stezagud
04-02-2005, 13:26
It should be a good 6 nations tournament this year as there is no clear winner. As you said, England, France and Ireland will all see themselves as potential champs and Wales have an outside chance too.
I will of course be backing England :D and i think we have a good chance again. We seem to have turned the corner after a troublesome start to last year, my main worry is whether the players will have time to adapt to the personnel/tactical changes...
I think England have too many injuries and too many changes in personel for things to gel, i'm not sure we'll be consistent enough to win it. So i think Ireland or France are favourites, depending on who's playing where etc.
It'll be close though, which is always a good thing.
While i was expecting it to be close, i didn't think the opening game would be THAT close. France were absolutely awful ... no flow, no fight, no nothing. Some curious selections didn't help either and they were incredibly lucky to gain a completely undeserved victory against Scotland. Having said that, Scotland made some disappointing mistakes to hand the victory to the French ... a stupid penalty for holding onto the ball out of touch, another bad error near the posts for a penalty and then a suicidal play that put the kicker under alot of pressure for the final score of the match ...
France will surely not play that badly again, while the other teams can take alot of heart from the fact that the French aren't as concrete as they were 12 months ago. Scotland must not be too hard on themselves, yes they lost but that was some of the best rugby they've played in a long long time.
As for the match tonight, it'll be just as close. England are in a similar position to France, alot of new faces and they'll have to gel quickly to beat the Welsh.
Lombardia
05-02-2005, 12:53
poor scotland to lose like that after such a great battling perfromance by them must be absolutley galling. i think this game does two things, firstly it makes ireland and england clear favourites, and also leaving italy as clear wodden spooners :(
as for tonights game, its a new england agaisnt a pumped up wales, the atmosphere will be electric and i can't wait for the game, this should be mighty might close and a fantastic battle
Stezagud
05-02-2005, 14:12
While i was expecting it to be close, i didn't think the opening game would be THAT close. France were absolutely awful ... no flow, no fight, no nothing. Some curious selections didn't help either and they were incredibly lucky to gain a completely undeserved victory against Scotland. Having said that, Scotland made some disappointing mistakes to hand the victory to the French ... a stupid penalty for holding onto the ball out of touch, another bad error near the posts for a penalty and then a suicidal play that put the kicker under alot of pressure for the final score of the match ...
yeah, Scotland couldnt have messed up more if they had been trying :(
They were unlucky not to get the try when he supposedly stepped onto the line (didnt look like he had to me?) but the final few minutes were suicidal :eek:
England arent doing much better in Cardiff :( i missed most of the first half to watch Arsenal - Villa but Arsenal had it won by half time..
Rapierist
06-02-2005, 03:54
I like watching Union.
But the league isn't telecast where I live. I don't think the six-nations will be either.
Don't have any favourite teams (though I am hoping rugby takes off here in my country).
But I certainly don't like the teams from the Southern hemisphere. And yes, before anybody tries to be smart and point out, I do know that the six-nations tournament does not feature teams from the Southern hemisphere.
My country does have a team (made up of part-timers, as there is no official league or a proper governing body). But they disappoint me. And how. They recently lost to some country like Burma or something, and even failed to score. :(
Rapierist
06-02-2005, 03:56
i missed most of the first half to watch Arsenal - Villa
Why???????????????????
As i feared, all the new names and faces meant a lack of cohesion in attack and defence .... combine that with a rejuvinated Welsh side and it was a shambles waiting to happen. Well done to Wales, they played really well for most of the game and had us stretched to breaking point on a few occassions. However, i was disappointed with some of Englands tactics, when we had the ball, for some reason Dawson kept kicking it up straight from the scrum ... what was that about ? It came off about twice i think. Also, when we had to kick it, we ended up kicking it straight to either Henson or Jones, their two best kickers ... talk about giving them the chance to cause us trouble. I felt we could win when Wales lost momentum and tried to play the game our way, but then we gave away 2 stupid penalties, one of which cost us and that was it.
It'll take alot for Andy Robinson to turn all this around, good luck to him.
Stezagud
06-02-2005, 09:44
Why???????????????????
because Arsenal were without Campbell and Toure and i though Villa *might* just be able to inflict more agony on the Gooners. Unfortunately not :rolleyes:
England were quite poor yesterday and Wales deserved their win. The team is definately going to take some time to gel and i think we can probably say goodbye to this years 6 nations already :( as long as they are ready to defend our World Cup then thats the important thing :D
results and standings after round 1
Country P W D L For Against Points
Ireland 1 1 0 0 28 17 2
France 1 1 0 0 16 9 2
Wales 1 1 0 0 11 9 2
England 1 0 0 1 9 11 0
Scotland 1 0 0 1 9 16 0
Italy 1 0 0 1 17 28 0
Saturday 5th February 2005
14:00 GMT France 16-9 Scotland
17:30 GMT Wales 11-9 England
Sunday 6th February 2005
14:30 GMT Italy 17-28 Ireland
worst french performance in years, i know they had a couple of injuries but their coach made loads of errors too in selecting team for example how can he leave out Micalack at out-half? scotland played well though and if a few decisions had gone their way they could have won.
wales england, gavin henson what can you say, great performance, think wales deserved win and they have to be considered contenders now to win the 6 nations.
England will be disappointed with performance, their young centres didnt quite cut it.
Italy gave Ireland a great game of it but O' Driscoll's magic was the difference. Murphy also very good. huge blow though that Darcy and O'Driscoll both picked up hamstring injuries and are a major doubt for Scotland next week.
Next week its:
Italy V Wales
Scotland V Ireland
England V France
Lombardia
07-02-2005, 06:27
i missed the italy -ireland game :( and was stunned to see the final score, i didn't think that we'd (italy) would get that close, and now that i've seen the highlights we could have won it. the game agaisnt scotland will be huge to see who doesn't come last!
as for the big 3, all of them have failed to impress and the winner of the tournament atm could be anyone of 4.
Scotland V Ireland
O'Driscoll and Darcy have both been named to play Scotland despite hamstring injuries picked up at the weekend. They are expected to be fit for the weekend. Poor Scotland!
Italy V Wales
I think we could have a surprise here. The Italin team is full of Rino Gattuso type characters who give 110%. Will be a good game.
England V France
This game has perhaps lost some of its significance afters Englands loss to Wales but these two dont like losing to each other and if both teams perform to their potential (big question marks about this happening) it will be a classic.
I think France will shade it but Mickalack has to be picked.
What way does everyone else see the weekend going?
Lombardia
09-02-2005, 05:20
i'm really looking forward to this week's games, all should be close and its virtually impossible to pick a winner
scotland v ireland; ireland have a terrible record in scotland winning only once in the last 10 occaisons, if o'driscoll and darcy are fit then, i'd bet on ireland, if they aren't scotland may well ruin they're grand slam ambitions.
italy v wales; i think italy's pack can win them the game, but wales' backs can destroy their italian counterparts so all i all i home that our home advantage can pull us through, but it will be very close, (i hope)
england v france; game of the week by a mile, as almilan said, france need to pick their best team, especially at scrum-half and fly-half, they also need their 6,7 and 8's back, they were sorely missed agaisnt scotland, however only betson will be available. england on the other hand are playing poorly, but its france at twickenham, and this is one game they do not want to lose and i don't think they will.
You know your rugby well Lombardia. Tell me is the average Italin interested in rugby or is it only a few Italins? Your right about the Italin pack, they are very good. they got the better of the Irish pack. France have left out Mickalack again for reasons only known to French coach.
regarding Scotland versus Ireland while O Driscoll and Darcy have been named its subject to late fitness tests. I think we will need only 1 of them to beat Scotland. One definite change from the Italy game is Munster's Leamy is dropped for Wasps O'Connor at number 7.
Wales beat Italy by 30 points but Ireland remain top despite Darcy and O Driscoll not recovering in time.
Scotland 13-40 Ireland
Eddie O'Sullivan's RBS 6 Nations favourites took another big step towards the title and only a second ever Grand Slam success with a convincing 27-point victory at Murrayfield.
Ireland lived up to their billing even without the dynamic duo of Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'Arcy pulling the strings in midfield
England vs France tomorrow
Must say i am very confident of Ireland's chances for the grand slam now after winning so comprehensively today without probably the two best centres in the world. they should be back for the england game in 2 weeks
france beat england 18-17 today in London, England led 17-8 at half time but amazingly failed to score in the second half and missed 6 kicks at goal during the match.
ireland,wales& France all have 6 pts with Ireland top on points difference
england,scotland&italy all have 0 points.
no matches next week but in two weeks time it is
Scotland vs Italy
France vs Wales
Ireland vs England
Stezagud
13-02-2005, 15:09
france beat england 18-17 today in London, England led 17-8 at half time but amazingly failed to score in the second half and missed 6 kicks at goal during the match.
:mad:
I used to hate that England were often seen as a one man team but we would have won by half time if Jonny Wilkinson was playing :rolleyes:
The team lacks leadership and character but these are things that develop with experience and cant be solved overnight :(
:mad:
I used to hate that England were often seen as a one man team but we would have won by half time if Jonny Wilkinson was playing :rolleyes:
(
yes i dont think anyone could argue with that, if wilkinson had been playing ye would have won.
who do you think will win 6 nations now that england are out of the running?
hahaha .... we'll still win it :D
No, just kidding.
I think it'll come down to where Ireland play Wales and France, one of them should be at home for you and i can't see England beating Ireland next weekend, especially away. Although, alot may rest on when O'Driscoll and Darcy come back ... if they come back and are fit, then that'll be it .... it'll be Ireland's to lose then. However, if those two struggle to get fit for any games, then it could go 3 ways, it's that close.
As good as Wales have played, i think if you put the hits on Williams (the one who thinks he's ronaldo) and Henson (and also don't keep kicking the ball to him like England did), they'll go down and Wales' game will be more limited. Whereas Ireland at least have some other players who can influence a game. As for France, well that's anyone's guess. They were fortunate to win today, much like last weekend. A solid display will beat them though and i think that the most solid of all teams is Ireland right now.
Lombardia
14-02-2005, 05:22
well the 6 nations is hotting up now with wales ireland and france all tied at the top after wining both games, all have still to play each other and each have one home game and one away game, ireland possibly are slight favourites, but a 3-way tie at the top is a distinct possibility, england could finish 4th!
as for this weekend's matches;
scotland v ireland;
a great start by scotland and they caught ireland cold and scored a great try, but then ireland woke up and dominated the rest of the game and won comfortably despite the lack of darcy and o'driscoll
italy v wales;
no great surprise in the fact that the welsh backs took apart their italian counterparts, but what was a surprise was that both packs were fairly even, as many believe the italian one was far superior, this meant that the welsh back were given plenty of the ball, and they made us pay with 6 tries (even if some were dubious). wales basically thrased us and i stopped watching after 60 mins. wales playing very well
england v france;
as everyone has said, if england had had the kicking machine that is jonny wilkinson, this game would have been over by half time. france were terrible and england could have put 40 possibly 50 points on them, however the england kickers especially hodgson, missed many kicks, that yashevilli did not, and although france improved a little in the second half, they did not deserve this victory, i can not remember one instance when they threatened or even when they were in the english 22! england gifted them this victory with too many needless fouls. france won the game by kicking penalites from the english 10m line. for france michalak needs to play at fly-half, as they lack creativity, only traille looks capable of doing something with the ball in hand atm for france. england need to improve.
as for the next weekend matches.
scotland v italy;
the wooden spoon match up, scotland favourites, but i really don't want another wooden spoon, we've got enough already in our short history in this competition
france v wales
wales playing great, france playing badly but both are winning, scotland nearly won here, wales have a great chance and if they win here they would become the favourites to win the whole compettion. however france are winning, and i think they will just edge it.
ireland v england;
england have lost 8 out of their last 11 games, their last 3 six nations games have also all been lost, they miss jonny wilkinson and many of the retired wc players. ireland will have their all star centres back and will be full of confidence, this is the game of the week, and ireland to me are favourites, england although have a great pack and a dangerous back line, can not seem to play great as a team. should be a very close game, and only a few points will seperate the two sides, i think ireland will win but will not be surprised if england do thou.
Paddy De Nagan
14-02-2005, 08:19
Nobody is going to stop France.
It would have favoured Ireland if England beat France.
Someone is going to be on the wrong end of an english backlash, unfortunately Ireland play them next.
Wales are going to be a prick of a team to beat as well.
Stezagud
14-02-2005, 13:16
who do you think will win 6 nations now that england are out of the running?
I think Ireland will now.
England needed a moral boosting win against France if they were to challenge Ireland but after the manner of the defeat i think we will be totally drained of confidence. It may be a close game it may even come down to a few precious penalties, if it does i cant see Englands kickers handling the immense pressure they will be under after the France game.
Wales are good if they can play the game their way but Ireland will dictate play when they meet and i doubt the Welsh will cope.
France have been awful both games yet somehow have 2 wins :eek: If they win the torunament it will be an absolute travesty :D
Ireland will do the grand slam. O'Driscol is back next week and hopefully altought i dont think we will, Gordon D'Arcy will be back in a couple of weeks. England to put it frank are lost without Wilkinson, but then again so would any side. France are not on form but deadly when they are adn wales are a bit of a surprise package. But having said all that, Ireland are starting to pick up their form now, the win over the Scots was a great morale booster particularly for O'Gara and we do have the best back line around at the moment. So I'm confident we can win it but I will obviously love the GS
I don't think it's just JW we miss and it's complete nonsense to think that it's just him that we are lost without. Be honest with yourselves ( whoever you support ) and see how well your team would do if you lost as many players as England have ........ not very well i would imagine. We miss leadership, experience, knowledge, creativity ... and of course kicking reliability. Any team without key players like Johnson, Dallaglio, Leonard, Back, Hill, Tindall, Wilkinson, Bracken, Greenwood, Cohen, Catt, Balshaw, Moody and Luger are going to be effected.
But that's by the by and the fact was we lost because we couldn't kick the ball between the posts. Surely Paddy De Nagan you have to be confident that Ireland have one of their best chances to beat France for ages, France are playing poorly and a low creative England side managed to score 2 easy tries against them through missed tackles. If you add O'Driscoll & or Darcy to the picture for you guys (depending on fitness) you should score even more than we did.
Go England & Ireland :gonova:
I think it'll come down to where Ireland play Wales and France, one of them should be at home for you and i can't see England beating Ireland next weekend, especially away. Although, alot may rest on when O'Driscoll and Darcy come back ... if they come back and are fit, then that'll be it .... it'll be Ireland's to lose then. However, if those two struggle to get fit for any games, then it could go 3 ways, it's that close.
As good as Wales have played, i think if you put the hits on Williams (the one who thinks he's ronaldo) and Henson (and also don't keep kicking the ball to him like England did), they'll go down and Wales' game will be more limited. Whereas Ireland at least have some other players who can influence a game. As for France, well that's anyone's guess. They were fortunate to win today, much like last weekend. A solid display will beat them though and i think that the most solid of all teams is Ireland right now.
hi have not been around for a while so catching up now on the comments.
jim ireland play France in Dublin but are away to Wales in the last game. I think Ireland are slight favourites for each of their 3 remaining games but i must emphasise slight as it wouldnt be a major shock if they lost to any of the teams as england, france and wales are all top teams. i am confident for the grand slam though, i actually put a bet of €15 at 5 to 1 on Ireland to do the grand slam before the 6 nations started.
regarding englands injuries, they are after getting a couple more at the weekend. i acknowledge that england would have probably won both their games if it hadnt been for their injuries.
Speaking of Gavin Henson.
Here is a bit of info about him. the gelled hair that probably takes hours to fix, the fake tan we all know about but here is two more things about him.
he wears silver boots because gold boots would not match with the red wales jersey!
he also you might have noticed wears a long sleeved red t shirt underneath his jersey because he wants to cover his wrists as he doesnt like the look of them!
interesting guy to say the least!!
More wins for Wales and Ireland and another loss for England. I wasn't expecting us to beat Ireland in Dublin, not with Ireland having their tails up and playing well. However, i am a bit gutted that we were basically camped in their 22 for that last 10 mins and got nothing. Not sure what the deal was when the ref was 100% certain that the ball was not grounded when Thomson (i think) went over. How could he tell when there were about 8 people on top of it ? He must have X-Ray eyes to see under that lot !
Still, Ireland were the better team and remain on course for the Grand Slam. I still would like them to win it more than the Welsh as it would wipe that smug grin off of Jonathan Davies' face :D God i hate him.
Anyway, it does look all set for a Grand Slam decider in Cardiff on the last game, which will be exciting.
Celtic_and_SRFC
27-02-2005, 13:19
what a game, thought england were going to take it in the end tho.
tough irish defence was the key imo.
great win for Ireland but were lucky to hold on but i think they deserved it because the try england got was such a soft try and o gara did miss a few kicks.
about the ball being grounded johnny o connor was in the refs way so he couldnt see it properly from where he was positioned, the ref probbaly should have used the video ref.
Brian O' Driscoll=the best (his 1st try against England and what a time to get it!)
Did ye see Darcy and Roy Keane sitting alongside each other?
with darcy almost recovered i think we will do the grand slam but its going to be tough against Henson and co. in cardiff (was very surprised wales beat France)
Celtic_and_SRFC
27-02-2005, 14:00
it is possible to win the grand slam but i hate being over-optomistic because when i am, it nearly never goes my way :frustrat:
Celtic_and_SRFC
27-02-2005, 14:02
Did ye see Darcy and Roy Keane sitting alongside each other?
yeh, keano doesnt like being spotted in the crowd does he? :haha:
Did ye see Darcy and Roy Keane sitting alongside each other?
yeh, keano doesnt like being spotted in the crowd does he? :haha:
no he doesnt! was the same last year at the munster wasps game
Savage game today lads, but i must say, we got away with it big time. That was a try any other day of the week!!!! how or why the ref didn't go upstairs is beyond me but he didn't we got out of jail and the GS is still very much on the cards, altough to beat wales and france i think we really need to the anti with out running rugby...
Paddy De Nagan
09-03-2005, 09:20
Big game on Saturday, biggest game for the Irish in years. We will need a good start aginst Les Bleus. Allez les verts!
Stezagud
09-03-2005, 12:56
With all the football going on i'd completely forgotten about this :eek:
England - Ireland went largely as expected but England had some encouraging signs as they did manage to put some pressure on Ireland. Considering the way we lost to France i hope you really punish them :dcool:
the irish dream of the grand slam is over after last weeks defeat to france which i watched in kookabar in milan but hopefully we can beat wales for the triple crown and an outside chance of title on points scored
Well we certainly took a nose dive didn't we?
Lombardia
21-03-2005, 18:24
congratulations to wales, and i'm not even gonna meniotn italy :( bad luck to ireland, but wales were just too strong even if ireland did contribute to their own downfall.
now roll on the lions tour, i can't wait for it, even if i think the lions won't do t great
Stezagud
22-03-2005, 12:25
Well we certainly took a nose dive didn't we?
at least you got off the runway :D
Wales deserved their grandslam, considering how open the tournament was its a great achievement to finish with 5 victories from 5 :respect:
How long is it before the Lions get going?
True, well done to Wales, they did the slam in a very open tournament and whats more they did it with style and at times beautiful running rugby...
Hats off.
Well we certainly took a nose dive didn't we?
u can say that again, so much expectation that this would be our year. we missed darcy and horgan a lot though.
Fair play to wales they deserved to win
True darcy and o'dris together are class and horgan also was a big loss. still can't see us doing it for a while yet as a lot of the lads are the wrong side of 30
meant to post this yesterday but didnt have time
from sky sports:
Jonny Wilkinson has been left out of the 44-man British and Irish Lions squad to tour New Zealand.
Ireland centre Brian O'Driscoll will captain the team for the three-Test Tour starting in June.
But Wilkinson, who has not played an international since drop-kicking the winning goal in the 2003 World Cup final, could still travel if he regains full fitness.
Coach Sir Clive Woodward also stated that centre Mike Tindall (foot) and prop Phil Vickery (broken arm) are in an identical position to Wilkinson if they prove their fitness in club rugby.
"If they confirm genuine form and fitness in the coming weeks, they could still go," said Woodward.
"My thinking is it is better they try to do so with their clubs before becoming part of the Lions squad.
"At their very best and fully fit, all three would have made the squad. And their absence from the list does not necessarily rule them out from the tour.
"I clearly know how much Jonny wants to play and I think this is the best way of keeping that prospect alive.
"He's an exceptional player and he hopes to start his first game on Friday.
"My thought is this, if he comes through the next six games with his club, then he will be included in the squad.
"I had a chat with the other three fly-halfs and they fully support my decision.
"If he does make it, he is in for a hell of a fight to displace the other three players."
"But I would be very doubtful if Mike Tindall and Phil Vickery make it to the standard we need for the Lions.
"We're not going out to trial players in any of these matches. The clock is against Tindall and Vickery, but I don't think the clock is against Wilkinson."
O'Driscoll is the first Irishman to lead the Lions since Ciaran Fitzgerald skippered the 1983 side in New Zealand.
He said: "It is a tremendous honour to be asked to be Lions captain and lead a squad of so many great players.
"When you look at the list of past Lions captains that include the likes of Martin Johnson and Willie John McBride, it is humbling. But I am relishing the challenge, and I will give it everything I have.
"The level of preparation and professionalism will ensure this tour combines the inspiration of Lions history, while being at the cutting edge of modern sport."
Woodward believes he has found the right man in O'Driscoll.
He said: "I am confident he will lead the Lions to victory. It will be as tough a challenge as he or I have ever faced.
"I spoke to him in January but I wanted to see how he performed in the Six Nations. And I thought he did very well in a difficult season for Ireland."
The party features 20 Englishmen, 11 Irish, 10 Welsh and just three Scots, scrum-half Chris Cusiter, hooker Gordon Bulloch and back-row forward Simon Taylor.
Woodward has chosen 14 of his victorious 2003 World Cup squad, and nine of the World Cup final starting XV including stalwarts Neil Back, Lawrence Dallaglio and Richard Hill.
Woodward defended the selection of 36-year-old Leicester flanker Back who becomes the oldest player in Lions history selected for an original tour squad.
He said: "Back's performance last weekend for Leicester against Leinster fully supported his selection.
"Playing in New Zealand you need a certain type of player, and in him and Martyn Williams we have got two of the toughest characters around."
And the huge England contingent includes centre Will Greenwood, who makes his third successive Lions trip after recovering from shoulder surgery, and full-back Iain Balshaw also makes it, despite an injury-plagued last 12 months.
Several young England prospects have also received the nod, including Leicester centre Ollie Smith, Sale front-row forwards Andy Titterrell and Andrew Sheridan and Bath prop Matt Stevens.
But Woodward was at pains to point out the Welsh and Irish strengths.
Wales' Grand Slam stars are out in force - Gareth Thomas, Gareth Cooper, Dwayne Peel, Gavin Henson, Stephen Jones, Tom Shanklin, Shane Williams, Gethin Jenkins, Martyn Williams and Michael Owen all make the trip - but there is no place for Colin Charvis.
"If we were playing this weekend, the majority of the starting XV would come from Wales and Ireland, with two players from England and one from Scotland," he added.
"I'm delighted with the form of Wales fly-half Stephen Jones. He was up there along with Martyn Williams as one of the players of the tournament in the Six Nations. I spent a week behind the scenes watching him train and his leadership is good.
"So people should not read too much into the national make-up of the squad, which incidentally, is very similar to that of the last two Lions tours.
"Being picked for the Lions is the ultimate honour, and a New Zealand tour is the ultimate challenge.
"The players we have announced are world-class, and the best in the British Isles and the right squad to take.
"We believe we can win. For all of us, it will be an achievement to match anything else we have done during our careers.
"History is exactly what a win would be. Since 1888, we have won only six out of 35 Test matches, winning only one series in 11 attempts."
The Lions will play a warm-up game against Argentina in Cardiff on May 23 and set off for New Zealand two days later where they will play eight tour games as well as the three Tests.
Squad: I Balshaw (England and Leeds), G Murphy (Ireland and Leicester), J Robinson (England and Sale Sharks), G Thomas (Wales and Toulouse), S Williams (Wales and Neath-Swansea Ospreys), J Lewsey (England and Wasps), S Horgan (Ireland and Leinster), D Hickie (Ireland and Leinster), T Shanklin (Wales and Cardiff Blues), B O'Driscoll (Ireland and Leinster, capt), G Henson (Wales and Neath-Swansea Ospreys), O Smith (England and Leicester), G D'Arcy (Ireland and Leinster), W Greenwood (England and Harlequins), S Jones (Wales and Clermont Auvergne), R O'Gara (Ireland and Munster), C Hodgson (England and Sale Sharks), M Dawson (England and Wasps), D Peel (Wales and Llanelli Scarlets), G Cooper (Wales and Newport Gwent Dragons), C Cusiter (Scotland and Borders), G Rowntree (England and Leicester), A Sheridan (England and Sale Sharks), M Stevens (England and Bath), G Jenkins (Wales and Cardiff Blues), J White (England and Leicester), J Hayes (Ireland and Munster), G Bulloch (Scotland and Glasgow), S Thompson (England and Northampton), A Titterrell (England and Sale Sharks), S Byrne (Ireland and Leinster), D Grewcock (England and Bath), B Kay (England and Leicester), M O'Kelly (Ireland and Leinster), D O'Callaghan (Ireland and Munster), P O'Connell (Ireland and Munster), M Owen (Wales and Newport Gwent Dragons), R Hill (England and Saracens), N Back (England and Leicester), M Williams (Wales and Cardiff Blues), L Moody (England and Leicester), S Taylor (Scotland and Edinburgh), M Corry (England and Leicester), L Dallaglio (England and Wasps).
Clive Woodward was right to leave Jonny Wilkinsion out of the British & Lions squad to tour New Zealand, Stuart Barnes told Sky Sports News.
The England captain, currently battling for fitness following a second knee injury this season, was not named among the 44-man party featuring 20 Englishmen, 11 Irish, 10 Welsh and just three Scottish - but he could still face the All Blacks.
Woodward has left the door open, stating that the England World Cup hero could still travel if he regains full fitness. Centre Mike Tindall (foot) and prop Phil Vickery (broken arm) are in in an identical position to Wilkinson.
Barnes, however, believes Woodward has got it right by leaving Wilkinson out of the initial group and that the mix between experience and youth in the rest of the group is spot on.
"Obviously the headline is the omission of Jonny Wilkinson," he said. "I think it's the right thing to do. Whether they should have said quietly to Wilkinson 'play well and we'll bring you in' and not put pressure on the other three fly halves, I don't know.
"But let's look at the positives and there are some big positives there. I was very fearful that a couple of players, like Tom Shanklin, were going to be left out. The call of Charlie Hodgson is controversial but it is positive.
"I think you've got a balance of the old guard of the English World Cup winners and some very exciting young players there too. I'm delighted that he resisted the siren temptation to leave out Shane Williams as he hurts New Zealand.
"Overall, it's a pretty good squad and the right captain."
As expected, Ireland's Brian O'Driscoll has been appointed skipper, and there are places for England World Cup stalwarts Neil Back, Lawrence Dallaglio and Richard Hill.
Leicester flanker Back, 36, becomes the oldest player in Lions history selected for an original tour squad.
O'Driscoll heads a strong Irish contingent, while RBS 6 Nations champions Wales have 10 Lions, but struggling Scotland are confined to scrum-half Chris Cusiter, hooker Gordon Bulloch and back-row forward Simon Taylor.
All Black legend and Sky Sports News panellist Sean Fitzpatrick endorsed the decision to give O'Driscoll the role.
"I like what Brian O'Drsicoll has said, that he's going to be a leader. There also seems to be a nice chemistry between coach and captain and they relate well. That's vital; the coach needs the captain to help mould the team," he said.
"He is the voice and ears of the players and he's got all the characteristics needed. It's a big job, a huge job. But what I like about the team is that he has a lot of lieutenants.
"I think it's quite predictable 44 but I like the mix. He's got experience and he's got young flair that can create opportunities. To have the Backs, the Dawsons and the Greenwoods there, I think he's picked on what's gone before which isn't a bad thing."
Dewi Morris added: "On a team-sheet Brian O'Driscoll is one of the first names you put down. He is one of the players you look up to and you know that in the heat of battle he will go bang and score that try. He has incredible pace, incredible vision - he is the right man for captain."
Barnes concurred: "O'Driscoll will do it his own way. There does seem to be a good chemistry between captain and coach. Woodward, remember, was a maverick outside centre who divided opinion. You could say the same about O'Driscoll.
"Woodward will like the independent spark in him and also the fact that when he goes on that pitch he is not only a world-class player but also extremely aggressive. He'll see him in a lot of ways as the natural successor to Martin Johnson.
"We had this late talk about Dallaglio but he has to nail down a test place first. You have to have a captain who is nailed on in the team so it had to be O'Driscoll."
Woodward has chosen 14 of his victorious 2003 World Cup squad, and nine of the World Cup final starting XV, but he was at pains to point the Welsh and Irish strengths.
The huge England contingent includes centre Will Greenwood, who makes his third successive Lions trip after recovering from shoulder surgery, and full-back Iain Balshaw also makes it, despite an injury-plagued last 12 months.
The Irish representatives are predictable, although fly-half Ronan O'Gara could possibly consider himself fortunate following a disappointing Six Nations.
And Wales' Grand Slam stars are out in force - Gareth Thomas, Gareth Cooper, Dwayne Peel, Gavin Henson, Stephen Jones, Tom Shanklin, Shane Williams, Gethin Jenkins, Martyn Williams and Michael Owen all make the trip - but there is no place for Colin Charvis.
Scotland's miserable run under coach Matt Williams is also reflected, although Taylor, especially, must have a strong Test team chance.
Several young England prospects have received the nod, including Leicester centre Ollie Smith, Sale front-row forwards Andy Titterrell and Andrew Sheridan and Bath prop Matt Stevens.
The inclusion of Smith pleased the panel in particular, and Barnes was particularly pleased after a bit-part 6 Nations for the Leicester centre.
"I'm delighted for him," said Barnes. "I think England's selection process through the 6 Nations was pretty shabby. Ollie Smith is the best centre in England - even if Mike Tindall and Will Greenwood are fit.
"I was fearful that not starting for England was going to cost him a Lions place that he deserves, but the Heineken Cup has come at the right time. His performance against Leinster in Dublin was superb.
"I think his try in that match and the way he performed against Brian O'Driscoll has got him in at the last minute."
The Lions leave for New Zealand on May 25, with the first Test against New Zealand scheduled for Christchurch a month later.
Sir Clive Woodward has named Jonny Wilkinson in his first team for the British and Irish Lions side.
The Newcastle fly-half, a late addition to the squad to tour New Zealand, will face Argentina on Monday.
Captain Brian O'Driscoll has been rested, along with Jason Robinson and the Sale contingent who are omitted because of Sharks' European Challenge Cup final this weekend.
So Wales forward Michael Owen will lead the side with Wilkinson acting as his vice-captain.
Gareth Cooper, kept out of Wales' victorious Six Nations side by Dwayne Peel, is named as Wilkinson's half-back partner while there are six Irishmen in the starting XV.
Centre Gordon D'Arcy is another looking to prove his fitness after an injury-hit season while Geordan Murphy, selected at fullback, is one of four players who featured in Leicester's Zurich Premiership Grand Final defeat.
Flanker Simon Taylor is the sole Scot in the team, while there are five Englishmen and three Welshmen.
Many of the favourites for the Test side - including lock Paul O'Connell, centre Gavin Henson and back-row forwards Martyn Williams and Lawrence Dallaglio - sit the match out.
Stephen Jones, expected to be Wilkinson's main rival for the fly-half position, is required by his club Clermont Auvergne this weekend while Wales skipper Gareth Thomas will not play because he will be in action for Toulouse in the Heineken Cup final.
Lions: 15 Geordan Murphy, 14 Denis Hickie, 13 Ollie Smith, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Jonny Wilkinson, 9 Gareth Cooper, 1 Graham Rowntree, 2 Shane Byrne, 3 John Hayes, 4 Malcolm O'Kelly, 5 Danny Grewcock, 6 Simon Taylor, 7 Lewis Moody, 8 Michael Owen (c)
Replacements: 16 Steve Thompson, 17 Julian White, 18 Donncha O'Callaghan, 19 Martin Corry, 20 Chris Cusiter, 21 Ronan O'Gara, 22 Shane Horgan
Stezagud
18-05-2005, 10:25
good to see Wilkinson back, removes the need for try scorers ;)
good to see Wilkinson back, removes the need for try scorers ;)
lol! yeah penalties and drop goals all the way.
but hopefully o' driscoll can perform some of his magic on tour as well.
will be interesting to see how darcy does this is his 1st big game back from injury as well.
remember darcy was voted best player of the 6 nations in 2004, if he performs he should be ahead of gavin henson to start as centre
I was going to restart this thread with talk of lions but then again, why torture myself!!!
Munster European Champions! The European Cup now resides in my home town. They won the Heineken Cup which is the rugby equivalent of the champions league. Final was on in Cardiff where Munster supporters outnumbered Biarritz supporters by over 15 to 1! I was at the quarter final and semi final up in Dublin and had been at group match here in Limerick but could not get tickets for the final. Big screen put up in town and over 10,000 of us watched it there. Still recovering now from all the drinking and celebrations
Munster fulfilled their destiny with a 23-19 win over Biarritz to raise the Heineken Cup in Cardiff.
Munster were crowned European champions winning the Heineken Cup for the first time after a gripping final against Biarritz in Cardiff.
Heartbreaking defeats in the finals of 2000 and 2002 had upped the stakes for Munster but it was a case of third time lucky after producing the performance of a lifetime.
A packed Millennium Stadium erupted in a sea of red after Trevor Halstead and Peter Stringer both scored tries to savour.
And Ronan O’Gara kicked a perfect five out five to clinch an historic win for the Irish giants and spark wild celebrations that were heard all the way back in Limerick and Cork.
Sereli Bobo had given Biarritz hope with a try after two minutes and Dimitri Yachvili kicked 14 points – including three second-half penalties – as the French champions roared back late on.
But after so many disappointments in the final – including the 2002 defeat at the same venue – Munster were not to be denied a thrilling victory.
They had to recover from the blow of conceding an early try to dominate the first-half of this tenth Heineken Cup Final. Biarritz had been criticised by some for failing to carry their thrilling form from the French Championship into the knock-out stages of the Heineken Cup.
The French champions had managed just one try in 160 minutes, from Sareli Bobo, against Sale Sharks and Bath in the quarter-final and semi-final respectively. But it took them little more than two minutes to find a way through Munster’s defence – and it was that man again, Bobo, who tip-toed inside the touchline to score.
Biarritz had Munster under pressure right from the kick off and when Philippe Bidabe shrugged off John Kelly on the narrow side, Fijian Bobo had enough room to squeeze over in the corner to stun the huge Munster contingent. O’Gara narrowed the gap with a seventh-minute penalty and then began the move that saw Halstead lift the roof off the Millennium Stadium by giving Munster the lead. Biarritz looked to have survived a red siege on their try line when they cleared their lines before Anthony Horgan raced onto O’Gara’s neat chip. Jerry Flannery and Paul O’Connell burst forward before the ball was worked out wide for Halstead to crash over from close range.
Yachvili levelled the scores with 22nd minute penalty after O’Gara had added the conversion but that could not stop the red machine, by now in fifth gear. The power of the Irish forwards saw Munster rumble their way once more to within ten yards of the Biarritz line but it was a moment of thrifty opportunism that got them over.
Ireland scrum-half Stringer saw opposite number Yachvili out of position and left Serge Betsen grasping air as he rounded the blindside of the scrum untouched to score. O’Gara’s conversion put Munster 17-10 ahead before the break and a second penalty gave them the perfect start to the second half. Yachvili kept a cool head to bang over two penalties of his in response, the second after Denis Leamy’s high tackle on Imanol Harinordoquy.
That kept this final on a knife-edge with just four points separating the sides and half an hour still to play. Biarritz lost two key players in centre Damien Traille and skipper Thomas Lievremont to injuries but a fourth penalty for Yachvili narrowed the gap to a single point ten minutes from time. But ice-cool O’Gara was calm under pressure in front of goal as Munster held out until the final whistle.
Congrats to Munster, they deserved their victory. Although i have to say i'm not surprised there were more Munster fans than Biarritz fans, i mean it is just down the road so to speak :D
I'm surprised you could remember all that Al since you were celebrating :beer:
Congrats to Munster, they deserved their victory.
thanks Jim, the players got a huge welcome at the airport sat night and in limerick sunday, open top bus etc (Paul O' Connell got off the bus at one stage to go into a pub to get a crate of beer!)
its great to have finally won after losing 2 finals and 3 semi finals and quarter finals
It's that time of year again when we select few talk about the six nations and the hopes and aspirations of our respective countrys.
I didn't get to see the Italy v France game, though naturally it was a must win game for France as they've been all over the place recently. 40 men selected for the whole tournament and probably not 1 of them know their best 15!
With their confidence a bit low, France will need to play well in the 6 nations and not use it as a time for experimentation so they can go into the world cup with some momentum and restored belief. That said i hope they do experiment and lose their way completely! hehe
Naturally i watched the England v Scotland match and well, you couldn't have written a more fairytale return to action for Wilkinson than this match. Two kicks aside, everything else he booted was pretty much pure gold, he fitted in smoothly as if he was never away and even scored a try ... though it should never have been awarded, how the video ref missed that is unbelievable. I think you kind of know it's not going to be your day when that and Lamont's unfortunate slip on the ball happens.
England played well in stages, but i think alot of people are getting carried away far too quickly. It was a good platform to build on none the less. Special mention must go to Harry Ellis, he and the England front row were great. Scotland played well in parts too, especially defensively and if it wasn't for some good fortune and mini purple patch where England scored some quick points the game would have been alot closer. Though i'm sure their fans would have wanted them to kick a bit less and throw the ball about a bit more as at times when they did this they caused some problems for England. It was good to see Cussiter back, i like him and Lamont as players, but i'm also glad they didn't hurt us too much :D
Hopefully it'll be a good match tomorrow between Wales & Ireland (who most have down as tournament favourites) and maybe they'll burn themselves out a bit before England visit Ireland in a few weeks time :hopefull:
I also hope Giovanni will drop by and give us his perspective on Italian rugby, it's always nice to have an inside man!
Roll on tomorrow!
wow, what a game! Wales v Ireland was captavating stuff!! Full of intensity, pressure, energy, just amazing and a great way to round off the first weekend of the 6 nations.
It's hard to judge who's come out best so far, France & Ireland seem to be the teams to beat while England are a bit of an unknown quantity right now plus it'll be tough for them having to play away to Ireland, home to France and then away to Wales as their last 3 games of the tournament.
Darcy, O'Driscoll and Peel were great today, some great movement and passing moments by both teams, England will get there one day :D
Can't wait for the next installment!
Giovanni
12-02-2007, 10:30
I also hope Giovanni will drop by and give us his perspective on Italian rugby, it's always nice to have an inside man!
Roll on tomorrow!
Hello guys
I watched the match last day and i think we are very proud about our Italy's performances by late. We are miles back the best teams in the world, therefore England v Italy, from our perspective, was a good match, although lost, and a great event, esp away in stadiums in England or, as we did last year, drawing in Wales.
I'm not an expert but i watch this game with admiration and curiosity. Try to understand the tactics and the choices made, but right now i know just the basic rules.
I think we lack a little bit of fantasy and unpredictability forward. Our best point is defence, no surprises. It's italian dna.
Italy played really well against England and picked up some pride after their disappointing performance against France.
You're right Giovanni, if Italy had a few more mercurial players and a good kicker then they'd be one of the best teams around. They seem to have everything else, particularly in the forwards/defensive areas.
Hope the studying is going well mate :D
Was at Croke Park yesterday for Ireland France. Absolutely sickened to lose in the last minute. Was such a historic day for the country with Croke Park being opened up and to lose like that in the end... Think France have the championship now. Ireland vs England for the triple crown will be quite a game but this season was supposed to be about a grand slam for Ireand playing in Croke PArk and winning the championship on St. Paricks Day in Rome. The script is up in smoke now.
Jim you confident about the Irish English game? If we had won yesterday think we definitely would have beat ye especially with O' Driscoll coming back but morale is going to be down now so not so sure.
I'm not confident about the match at all al. The way we're playing we're not good enough to go away and win in Ireland, things will have to change drastically for us to get a result or you will have to play the whole match as badly as you played the first 20 mins where nothing was coming off for you, but i can't see that happening.
But i guess with Wilkinson kicking, you can never write us off fully, but it's not the way i'd really want to win the game. For England there's no spark and alarmingly against Italy not alot of intensity either.
I can see why you think morale would be low but with O' Driscoll coming back that's all you need, even if he doesn't play well he'll raise everyone elses game in your side. You're lucky to have not 1 but 2 mercurial-esque runners like him and Darcy, i wish we had a couple!
As impressive and loud as Croke was, it somehow doesn't seem as intimidating with the stands further back. I'm not sure if that will really make any difference, but you never know.
I think we have a chance of beating you, but i just can't see it. We've gone to Ireland with better teams and lost before so who knows, but if you want to give us 15 penalties all within 40m of the posts i'll gladly take that with dead-eye Wilko on patrol :D
Stezagud
12-02-2007, 16:40
yeah we've got a chance because of Wilkinson, when he wasnt there we would always lose if we played badly but now we can play terrible attacking rugby and still rack up 20 points in penalties, which in a tight defensive game can make a hell of a difference.
That said, Ireland were probably favourites for the tournament and i've considered backing them for it still because they are now at 4-1 :D
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