View Full Version : well this is irritating
Hasan Rossonero
28-05-2005, 20:03
Rossoneri Vice-President Adriano Galliani has sensationally confirmed that they considered firing Carlo Ancelotti after the Champions’ League Final.
“If the Coach had taken off one of the strikers during the game, then he would have risked the sack,” announced the de facto President.
Patron Silvio Berlusconi has repeatedly chided his Coach in public for an excessively prudent approach, always insisting on two forwards at all times as a ‘show of strength.’ This has often caused conflict with Ancelotti, who won the Champions’ League in 2003 with the Christmas Tree formation.
“After conceding Liverpool’s three goals, we started playing well again and created plenty of scoring opportunities. Fate was clearly not on our side,” continued Galliani.
“Berlusconi is not angry about the defeat in itself. He simply cannot abide bad football, that’s all. Milan lost the Champions’ League Final, but played very well and that is the centre of our philosophy. We must now find the strength from this defeat to build our future success.”
Nonetheless, this is a major warning that the club has lost much of its faith in Ancelotti, who is under increasing pressure to follow Berlusconi’s tactical credo rather than find his own way to victories.
The former Juve and Parma boss has already been heavily linked with approaches from his old club Roma and Arrigo Sacchi’s Real Madrid.
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My thoughts:
So, in a situation where it would be completely logical to play with one striker, Ancelotti might have kept two strikers on so that he could avoid the wrath of the spectacle-hungry Berlusconi.
It is an old debate folks, is it right to privilege pragmatism over spectacle. I would be much much happier, if we would have seen out the game with five midfielders.
If the report above is true, then I sympathize even more with Carlo Ancelotti. His hands are truly tied. As a coach, he should have the freedom to select a lineup that he thinks will do the job. He did that in the 2003 season and we reaped the rewards for it.
Very infuriating! :mad:
zlatanov
28-05-2005, 20:48
Not just infuriating but ridiculous too - after going 3-0 up, the logical thing to do would have been to make sure we have more cover in midfield and defense, and over the years this has always been Ancelotti's way of "reacting" in such situations. I wouldn't be surprised if Carlo kept two forwards just to please Silvio.
And to say that if he had pulled off one of the strikers he would have risked being sacked is just plain stupid for it undermines the coache's credibility.
Gabbarelli
28-05-2005, 20:52
It is riduculous that a director or owner can try to dictate anything on the field of play.
The coach/manager lives/dies by his decisions interference from above only creates problems.
What next the Ultras meet the owner to pick the team week in week out?
devoted_dm
28-05-2005, 21:32
Yeah this is ridiculous. I really didn't understand why we didn't take off one of our strikers in favor of a midfielder in the second half, seeing as how Liverpool were suddenly playing with six men in midfield (and that, I think, is a big part of the reason we lost our lead - we lost control of the midfield for a while).
Berlusconi shouldn't interfere with things he knows nothing about, but keep his mouth shut and let the coach do his job.
And sure we played good football. But do you know what? We still made fools of ourselves in front of all of Europe, for not being able to hang on to a 3-0 lead with only 45 minutes left to play.
Just to let you guys know, i am a big fan of the xmas tree. Keeping that bias in mind, this whole farce where the pres/director acts as a tactician for the team is absurd. Why can't they let San Carlo do his job? He is one of the best coaches in the world but he is being stifled by those above him.
This reminds me of when Galliani told Capello - "win the scudetto and we'll offer you a new contract" right after he won 2 scudettos in a row. Capello was deeply humiliated and said that he will act after the season ends by winning a scudetto and then leaving Milan. He did just that. He basically slapped Galliani in the face when he WON the scudetto and refused to sign a new contract. He went to Real Madrid and won another scudetto to show HOW WRONG Galliani was in posing an ultimatum to Capello.
To be honest, if Ancelotti leaves or gets sacked, I would be crushed because Milan would have just shot themselves in the foot. But I would wish that Carlo goes on to bring great successes to whatever club he joins (without the interference of their bosses) to show what a mistake Galliani made. I don't know what Galliani hasn't learnt his lesson from the Capello travesty. If Milan have a couple of bad seasons after Carlo leaves, I would be sad but not feel an ounce of pity for the people who chased him out - if it happens that is.
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PS: why not make topic titles more descriptive. "well this is irritating" doesn't give any idication as to what this topic is about. I wish posters would follow some posting ettiquete while posting so the rest of us can jump in and add our two cents.
Gabbarelli
28-05-2005, 22:16
Celtic would gladly take Ancelotti for sure.....
Doubtful, but if Milan don't recognise the talent they have they can only lose him.
Hasan Rossonero
28-05-2005, 22:23
Just to let you guys know, i am a big fan of the xmas tree. Keeping that bias in mind, this whole farce where the pres/director acts as a tactician for the team is absurd. Why can't they let San Carlo do his job? He is one of the best coaches in the world but he is being stifled by those above him.
This reminds me of when Galliani told Capello - "win the scudetto and we'll offer you a new contract" right after he won 2 scudettos in a row. Capello was deeply humiliated and said that he will act after the season ends by winning a scudetto and then leaving Milan. He did just that. He basically slapped Galliani in the face when he WON the scudetto and refused to sign a new contract. He went to Real Madrid and won another scudetto to show HOW WRONG Galliani was in posing an ultimatum to Capello.
To be honest, if Ancelotti leaves or gets sacked, I would be crushed because Milan would have just shot themselves in the foot. But I would wish that Carlo goes on to bring great successes to whatever club he joins (without the interference of their bosses) to show what a mistake Galliani made. I don't know what Galliani hasn't learnt his lesson from the Capello travesty. If Milan have a couple of bad seasons after Carlo leaves, I would be sad but not feel an ounce of pity for the people who chased him out - if it happens that is.
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PS: why not make topic titles more descriptive. "well this is irritating" doesn't give any idication as to what this topic is about. I wish posters would follow some posting ettiquete while posting so the rest of us can jump in and add our two cents.
Cheers, I will from now on. My title was inspired by visceral disgust but I should not have sacrficed convention.
sehnsucht79
28-05-2005, 22:40
The directors must stop interfering with Milan. NOW.
Hasan Rossonero
28-05-2005, 22:42
The directors must stop interfering with Milan. NOW.
Hey, are you a fan of both Milan and Juve?
sehnsucht79
28-05-2005, 23:00
oh my dear god, no. Just Juventus and Juventus alone :)
zlatanov
28-05-2005, 23:15
Sehnsucht is Moggi's MOLE in the Milan camp :)
Stezagud
29-05-2005, 07:12
There was a lot of talk about why Carlo had taken so long to react to Benitez' changes and this certainly helps explain it. When they brought on Hamann it gave them enough central options to keep the ball further forward in midfield than they had been able to at any point in the first half.
With that in mind a 5th midfielder would certainly have been very useful and would have turned it back in Milans favour as they would have not only been 5 on 5 in midfield but also have the added luxury of not needing to score.
I really dont understand why Berlu would have a problem with Carlo if he had taken off a striker at 3-0? Does he think that people around Europe would suddenly sit up and say "ha, those 3 goals in the first half were a fluke, Milan are a boring side afterall !" ???m :rolleyes:
of course they wouldnt, even those with only a casual interest in the sport would understand a side defending a lead in a game of the magnitude.
Ancelotti would not have been sacked if he took off a striker and we still won the match. We have played with a single striker many times in Europe this season.
zlatanov
29-05-2005, 08:38
Ancelotti would not have been sacked if he took off a striker and we still won the match. We have played with a single striker many times in Europe this season.
True, but he would have been kicked out faster than a bullet if he took a striker off and we lost the match. Well, he didn't, he kept two strikers on the field and we still lost the match. I don't think that a defeat with a X-tree tastes bitter than a defeat with 2 upfront, but I guess that's the logic of Galliani and Silvio.
He who can pay the most ought to be able to say the most. I am not one bit upset with Berlusconi or anyone from AC Milan regardless of the results we had Wednesday night.
I think Berlu is becoming a ridiculous clown.
Why dosn't he just run the side into Serie B, that's the only thing I can see making him realise he's not a football manager.
Sehnsucht is Moggi's MOLE in the Milan camp :)
She is only here for Inzaghi. :hug2:
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 10:39
He who can pay the most ought to be able to say the most. I am not one bit upset with Berlusconi or anyone from AC Milan regardless of the results we had Wednesday night.
Perhaps but Berlu should never have interfered in Carlo's work. Ancelotti's hired to do things his way, not Berlu's. Berlusconi should've showed enough faith in Ancelotti to let him do things according to his will. Plus it is Ancelotti who knows the team better, not Berlusconi (unless Berlusconi attends every friggin training session Milan had this season)
Perhaps but Berlu should never have interfered in Carlo's work. Ancelotti's hired to do things his way, not Berlu's. Berlusconi should've showed enough faith in Ancelotti to let him do things according to his will. Plus it is Ancelotti who knows the team better, not Berlusconi (unless Berlusconi attends every friggin training session Milan had this season)
What shows more faith in Carlo by letting him stay??? Come on people this really is irrelevant and a total non-issue. Some of you are really reaching too far rationalizing our loss to Liverpool. Enough already!
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 10:44
It's not just the pool game Kui. I've encountered countless Milanistas in other forums talking about Berlusconi's interference in Milan way before the final was played. And it is true. Bottom line is that Berlusconi should just let Ancelotti do his job without dictating his decisions.
Berlusconi time at as President will include the following
7 Scudetti
4 European Cups
and another dozen or so other titles. Not bad for a person who likes to say what he has to. Especially when he's paying the bills.
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 10:53
I think you're taking this out of context ... It's not like I am dead set against Berlusconi having a say about Milan, but I just feel that sometimes he dictates Ancelotti's decisions, which shouldnt be the case. He's restricting Carlo.
Well what is irritating me is that everyone is being nothing but reactionary and not proactionary. Everyone thinks they're the experts.... after the fact of course because I havent heard anyone being right about anything at all from the reasons like blaming Ancellotti to even who the heck is coming to Milan next year. You got people yelling nonsense asking for the coach's head on a platter to Berlusconi should just shut up. There is no one here who can tell me that the reason why they are saying this isnt because of wednesdays results. If we had won nobody would say a d@mn thing. It wold be stupid for them to say such things after the fact as it is like some are saying now. The season is over Juve are Scudetti champions, Liverpool are kings of Europe til next season.
One of my peeves is when people say something and then when a total different result happens they disclaim their claims and blame on someone else. No one takes account to what they say and and then take a total diiferent stance on something because the condition has changed. I find no integrity into what some say. How am I supposed to respect those who do this and and be serious about it when they cant take account of their own comments. It is soooo conditional it is sickening! Sucht I'm not mad at you dont get me wrong. I'm mad at how people are reacting to something that had all the possiblity of happening. That we might not win a darn thing. We didnt, learn from it, and move on.
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 11:16
Well if it is any consolation, again I repeat many has stated that Berlu should stop interfering. They say it again now that the news is out. Of course some would probably hail Berlusconi if the same news comes out had Milan actually won the CL, but other than that small fickle group I am pretty sure that most Milanistas have always been not contented with Berlusconi's interference and they stay that way.
Well if it is any consolation, again I repeat many has stated that Berlu should stop interfering. They say it again now that the news is out. Of course some would probably hail Berlusconi if the same news comes out had Milan actually won the CL, but other than that small fickle group I am pretty sure that most Milanistas have always been not contented with Berlusconi's interference and they stay that way.
My point is you'll never hear them say this when we win stuff. Only when we lose. It's like an infant that reacts only when it has no pacifier in it's mouth.
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 12:55
Okay. Saw an interesting quote today at another forum though.
"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques"
You have the manager - a person who manages the team.
You have the assistant manager - a person who helpeh him to manage a team
Then you have a director - he is in charge of financial status
And owner - silvio....
Now..... Its is not Galliani's job to buy players he wants or Silvios to make tactick for the game, we are becoming really funny club... Carlo should say what he wants and which players he needs, like Capello did in juve. Then moggi gave him players he needed for his formation and tactics and he won the scodetto. On the other hand silvio and galliani are doing something completely diferent and it can only destroy the club, the same thing in with inter's owner and inter's managers.... Onemore thing, Galliani thinks its always good to be in centre on attention in the media, and he rearely works in " the shadowes " as moggi does. Im not moggi's fan but we can learn something from him and juve. The connection between Carlo and Galliani-Silvio has to be profesional ,and it clearely isnt, so one more time...Silvio let football players take care of football!!!! :5roma:
I trust Berlusconi's judgement above any coach. Remember when Ancelotti arrived he had a reputation as being defensive, it's only because of Berlusconi's demand for attacking football that Ancelotti adopted an attacking approach and we won the European Cup and scudetto.
zlatanov
29-05-2005, 18:52
Berlusconi time at as President will include the following
7 Scudetti
4 European Cups
and another dozen or so other titles. Not bad for a person who likes to say what he has to. Especially when he's paying the bills.
Very impressive indeed. But what makes you think that if he had interfered with the coaches' work and tactics less than he did, the above would have looked something like:
10 scudetti
6 CL
Just because we have been so successful with him it doesn't mean that we wouldn't have had more success if he kept his functions in the club limited to being a president i.e. providing the $$$ for transfers and keep his mouth shut when it comes to what tactics Milan is gonna use. Milan's era of success doesn't coincide with Silvio's "reign" at the helm because of his "shrude" tactical advice but because he brough financial prosperity to a club that had gone bankrupt before he took over.
Furthermore, if Sacchi, Capello, and now Carlo happen to play with 2 forwards, most of the time, it is not because Silvio goes public with some blunder like "Milan always plays with 2 upfront", but because this is one of the most proven and widely used and successful "philosophies" in football. With Berlusconi expressing his fan-like outbursts in the media he is only hurting the credibility of his coach in front of the fans, and most importantly the players, and apart from this there virtually no positive effects of his public "lectures" on football tactics - Silvio knows about football as much as any average Milan fan in the SS stands and the only dif is that he is so rich and happens to own Milan. This doesn't make him a better football tactician, it just gives him the opportunite his AMATEURISH statements to recieve more media coverage than would yours or mine or anybody else's here in this forum.
All in all, Silvio thanks for the big bucks but please let those who actually understand the game take care of what is going on the field.
zlatanov
29-05-2005, 18:59
I trust Berlusconi's judgement above any coach. Remember when Ancelotti arrived he had a reputation as being defensive, it's only because of Berlusconi's demand for attacking football that Ancelotti adopted an attacking approach and we won the European Cup and scudetto.
I think you are overestimating by a LONG shot Silvio's understanding of football tactics. It is normal for a coach to let his understanding of the game "evolve" when he goes from one club to another. The reason for this is that at the new place he finds new players with different abilities and mentality he would have to work with - teams like Milan usually have tons of highly capable players which would always favour more attacking football, and when I say this, plese don't picture the sort of recklessly attacking football practiced by Barca but football that is more opened than the one Brescia practices.
Carlo came to Milan and he tried to adapt his tactics to the players he already had, not the other way around. If he goes to Brescia, he would probably build a second Great Chinese wall over there. Just look at what Capello did at Milan, Real, Juve, and then compare that to his tactics at Roma where he used mostly a 3 man defence.
Should a coach try to adapt the players to his tactics, and not the other way around, you get a Zeman-like Lecce and a Cuper-like Inter.
The interview in the opening post has some kind of source? I doubt it. Here in Italy I've never seen or heard it.
zlatanov
29-05-2005, 19:17
The interview in the opening post has some kind of source? I doubt it. Here in Italy I've never seen or heard it.
it was on www.calciomercato.com and www.tgcom.it/sport (former mediasetonline.com, owned by ... Berlusconi)
I would have been kind of shocked if Carlo had substituted either the goal hero Crespo or the european player of the year Sheva as soon as halftime. They both played magnificent football.
Hasan Rossonero
29-05-2005, 20:59
The interview in the opening post has some kind of source? I doubt it. Here in Italy I've never seen or heard it.
Ciao,
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/may29a.html
After reading the article, the only opinion I can take away from it is, it's simply sports drama. "Galliani has sensationally CONFIRMED that they CONSIDERED firing ...." Come on that's a little funny. Nothing's happening....just a lot of mixed words.
sehnsucht79
29-05-2005, 22:28
Yes, the media was probably exaggerating. But again this is not the first time we've heard Silvio dictate Carlo's decisions.
Hasan Rossonero
29-05-2005, 22:44
Yes, the media was probably exaggerating. But again this is not the first time we've heard Silvio dictate Carlo's decisions.
Embellishing is the media's rhetorical tool, but the entire story cannot be fabricated.
Yes Silvio has often chipped in with tactical considerations which accentuate attacking play. There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion.
But when he does it with a subtext of an ultimatum, then it is unhealthy.
Listen! Could of won, should won.... whatever! I am saying that some of you are reaching for excuses now. This is such a non-issue to why we lost this game. Why are you guys so mad at Berlusconi???? This is getting to be absolutely fvcking stupid it is starting to piss me off! We lost and move on now. Why is there this second guessing of ourselves, our manager, our owner, and our team!!!!????
Dr Milano
30-05-2005, 04:49
Listen! Could of won, should won.... whatever! I am saying that some of you are reaching for excuses now. This is such a non-issue to why we lost this game. Why are you guys so mad at Berlusconi???? This is getting to be absolutely fvcking stupid it is starting to piss me off! We lost and move on now. Why is there this second guessing of ourselves, our manager, our owner, and our team!!!!????
u milan supporter i am anyway whats bugging ya chill man
Dr Milano
30-05-2005, 04:51
u milan supporter i am anyway whats bugging ya chill man
juve fans cant talk u got knocked out in the quarters hahahah by liverpool milan fans r honoured u arent u got beat and couldnt score at ur home ground :510: :haha:
u milan supporter i am anyway whats bugging ya chill man
Dude I the most chilled one here. If you hadnt notice it is not me finding blame to why we lost. Get to know me better before questioning me if I am a Milanisti fan or not.
Hasan Rossonero
30-05-2005, 11:34
Dude I the most chilled one here. If you hadnt notice it is not me finding blame to why we lost. Get to know me better before questioning me if I am a Milanisti fan or not.
Yes you ar every sensible, I must say. Lets all stay united in this maelstrom.
Forza Milan!
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