View Full Version : The devastation that Katrina left
I hope no MMers were located in the areas most affected by Hurricane Katrina....and I'm mildly (??) surprised no one started a thread about this. New Orleans, Louisiana, areas in Mississippi are totally and completely devastated. If you need a point of reference, think about the areas hit by the tsunami last December. I was watching the news this morning, on several channels, and was practically in tears. God bless the US Navy and the Army Reserve, as they are swinging into action to assist in those areas. No word on if anyone else is lending a hand or not, which doesn't surprise me at all.
i was wondering who the Katrina was first, LOL, it's really sad for the people who are effected by this, one fine day and all is gone, it takes years to build a life and and then it's all gone gone, really sad.
I hope no MMers were located in the areas most affected by Hurricane Katrina....and I'm mildly (??) surprised no one started a thread about this. New Orleans, Louisiana, areas in Mississippi are totally and completely devastated. If you need a point of reference, think about the areas hit by the tsunami last December. I was watching the news this morning, on several channels, and was practically in tears. God bless the US Navy and the Army Reserve, as they are swinging into action to assist in those areas. No word on if anyone else is lending a hand or not, which doesn't surprise me at all.
Well a bunch of friends along with myself have already sent some materials needed to the disaster victims through our Christian Disaster Relief Fund organized by our Church. I think they work in conjuction with the Red Cross. I just cut a check for about $2500 wont go far but the least I could do. It's something I do on occasions like these. Of course I could have used it for a plane ticket to Milan!. Oh well too busy right now to consider any future "soccerpades".
Let's not forget the resiliency of humans. If anybody can get up and walk again it is the American Spirit. Nothing to gawk at either! It just takes time and will see the fine States of Lahweeana, Meeezzizipeee, and Aaaaylaabbayymaay come on back now... ya hear???
Well just went and took a look at the impact of the hurricane on the opening market on Wall Street and the financial markets are holding quite well. Again the resiliency of the investors are strong. This is a good sign as a panic is naturally what we dont need right now.
Short term outlook. Because of the bulk of petrol refineries located on the South Gulf coast of the US, look for a spike in gasoline prices. This is the root cause for gasoline prices being so high. Everyone is mislead to thinking it is because of the price of oil at $70/barrel. The culprit is not enough refineries to meet the demand of the SUV's everybody bought back in the late 1990's. Expect State govts to use their executive powers to implement a gas cap which wont help much but it's better than nothing... in lieu of this disaster.
Overall assesment is that this will not slow down the US economy which is despite the attitudes of some, showing high growth. Keep one's personal debt low and pay off any outstanding loans as such growth will lead to an increase of interest rates come early 2007.
Some banks and financial institutions here are taking donations to send for the relief. Check with your churches as well, as they are taking blankets, clothes, toiletries (shampoo, toothpaste soap etc.) and toys. These peoples lives have been destroyed. Let's all do what we can.
Some banks and financial institutions here are taking donations to send for the relief. Check with your churches as well, as they are taking blankets, clothes, toiletries (shampoo, toothpaste soap etc.) and toys. These peoples lives have been destroyed. Let's all do what we can.
Private message for ya Staci :w262:
The kids in my school never cease to amaze me, they've already gone to the people in Campus Ministry asking about taking up collections and making donations. Just like with alot of recent diasters, these organizations are starting to say NO to material donations b/c of logistics of shipping into the stricken area among other reasons. What they want is our money and hey, Friday is payday and yes, our school is going to take up a collection all of next week. :cheers:
The kids in my school never cease to amaze me, they've already gone to the people in Campus Ministry asking about taking up collections and making donations. Just like with alot of recent diasters, these organizations are starting to say NO to material donations b/c of logistics of shipping into the stricken area among other reasons. What they want is our money and hey, Friday is payday and yes, our school is going to take up a collection all of next week. :cheers:
So you see... the waters will recede and the Big Easy of the great State of Laweeana is going to recover. That goes too with Ole Miss and Crimson Tide.
The kids in my school never cease to amaze me, they've already gone to the people in Campus Ministry asking about taking up collections and making donations. Just like with alot of recent diasters, these organizations are starting to say NO to material donations b/c of logistics of shipping into the stricken area among other reasons. What they want is our money and hey, Friday is payday and yes, our school is going to take up a collection all of next week. :cheers:
The church around the corner from my house is asking for material donations.... is this pointless, are you saying they are definately restricting the shipping of these items ? I hope not :(
I'm only stating here what was in the email from the woman in CM who will be helping with the collection. I'm assuming she got this straight from Catholic Charities here in Erie and it's not the first time I've ever heard this said. During the first weeks of the tsunami disaster, this was brought up time and time again. I quote her email to the faculty:
"If students ask about gathering clothing or supplies for the victims, please tell them that most agencies are saying NO to that. Right now, the flood waters are still spilling into New Orleans, whole communities are under water, and there is simply no way to store or distribute any donated items. Money to buy food, water, medicine, and other supplies, in addition to cash to help with rebuilding and recovery needs is what is going to be the most help."
I see guys, that the only attenders and posters in this thread are northern americans... :rollani: [except Khris]
Here is my point of view to this situation of political side.
IMO it's not a problem of resources, it's a problem of solidarity of human beings all over the world.
Everyone was yelling and screaming when tsunami struck - "Quickly, we/they need money, where is your solidarity, where is your humanity etc. If you have money you must donate it to them. And if you do not do that, God will cruise you, etc." Many foundations and charity funds where estabished, everything was enlighted by mass media. It was a big operation with everyone involved.
... and now what?! Nothing! Absolutely nothing! I am disguisted with such an attitude of world. Of world which was so anxious and eager to help victims of elements of nature just a half a year before... now it is scilent...
Fvck them. Fvck them all!
Condolences to all families of the victims and RIP who died during this disaster. :depress:
Angel_Cic
31-08-2005, 23:05
i've been following since the manditory evacuation in new orleans. my goodness, i could never believe that such damage could happen-quite unbelievable and sad.
totti_jonaid
01-09-2005, 04:48
Yeah really do fell sorry for all those who have lost their homes and famlies. Life is very sweet and this is the worst possible way to lose it.
I see guys, that the only attenders and posters in this thread are northern americans... :rollani: [except Khris]
In a sad way I expected this thread would only get comments from those of us in North America. I don't wish to start any sort of political discussion but people get on our butts about being "the policemen of the world", want our aid when their own country is stricken.....and I'd better stop there. We'll take care of our own and everyone else too, or so it always seems. :fero:
Well I'm going to get political. Why because my thread got closed down on the generalizations of some. This whole thing has gotten me upset. No one has got anything correct in the the field of disasters or geopolitics. So I'm both upset at the emotion, the inaccuracies, and generalizations that caused my thread Happy VE Day to close down. First of all we all need to realize whether by the grand design or conspiracies of the "US", we are living in common global order. This means anything going on in bum a$$ Canada is going to have repurcussions in Sudan. On this matter as someone said that Americans are unaware of where Portugal is, I could throw an equal low blow and also say "wow with all the stupid sh!t happening in Darfur, Sudan"... Where is the Fatwa or holy jihad to those agressors of the govt of Sudan??? Shall I continue the generalization and throw ignorance back in those with such attitude. I'll try one more. I know a lot of people from all over the world who gives a sh!t about where such and such a place is or who the heck murdered what in some d@mn heathen place of the world. Point??? With Americans not knowing or supposedly caring about such situation, I dare say with very much accuracy and very much fact that the rest of the world has failed miserably caring about it too! So where does this leave us??? Stupidity and hatred and mistrust and very much inaccuracies on BOTH sides. No one has contemplated in honesty of what "strength" especially if such strength the US has where to have been endowed upon state a State such as Pakistan and if not Pakistan... India. If not them Russia or France or Canada or Sudan or Rwanda or South Africa during the apartheid years??? Everyone only remembers the negative things and never the good. Isnt such attitudes without a doubt equally ignorance??? I think those with such sentiments need to be mindful when accusing the United States citizens as ignorant cause the world has just as much indifference too. To be fair most people throughout the world are to the core good and have to much other worries to really be mindful of where's what and what's happening there or here. That would include Americans as well. So let's not base sole blame or "most" of the blame of the worlds problem on the US. The rest of the world itself has done pretty good job killing too!
My second disagreement will be endowed upon you Debs. Yeah the principle of it matterss. I know you have a good heart and mean very well. Yet it is improper for this country to go and ask for aid from countries. The goodwill of private donations does far more than the expenditure of any govt. We have the means to handle it ourselves. Furthermore foreign aid is a must in regards to global politics, even if it means bearing a few whacks and snipes from others. There has been much good done in such aid. I fear what the ramifications would have been if we didnt implement a "Marshall Plan" to aid Europe... something most Europeans especially the young ones conveniently forget. Again them, the "tea kettle" calling us black(ignorant). Whatever the case or circumstance or critisizing we get from the outside world, such aid is essential. It would be bad policy to think otherwise and ending foreign aid Debs will not end poverty that exist within our borders. It wiil for sure cause bigger and badder problems around the world if those in Chad and Eritrea or Banda Aceh did not get some humanitarian help. The rest can talk about the abuses of the US which does have some credence but to dwell on it solves none of our problem. The fixation on hating the US more than helping out our fellow man need to stop.
I've never felt vindication of any kind by putting down the disaparity of others. I will say that if there are those who have felt that way or condone or "understand" such sentiments is not a decent human. I dont remember any Americans having a "bad heart" about helping out the Tsunami victims in Banda Aceh even though many there are muslims and hold Usama Bin Laden as a hero. Such bitterness on our part would have been stupid but we did the humanitarian thing. I'm beginning to think that there were some who feel we deserved this??? Please be kind and tell me this isnt so. This is a free pass I will give so please clarify and inform me otherwise.
Did we all forget that we have spent half a century in a "cold war" and it wasnt just between the US and USSR??? Every nation has been culpable in this and it seems many havent learned a damn lesson, namely India, Pakistan, Iran and North Korea. You'd think humanity learned a friggin lesson and yet we are now in a second period of Nuclear proliferation. I dont remeber the rest of the world concerned about this??? And if they were aware... "good job!" Everybody looks like they got it ALL UNDER CONTROL... NOT! With the end of the Cold War the US was left as the lone big country and thus the garbage. I'll admit that we havent done a good job cleaning it up, but again such ethnic hatred has been around way before the US was even a republic. Do not dare say that the Turks were not hacking the bodies of countless Armenians only 20 yrs ago! Do not dare tell me the Zulu and Xhosa peoples were not fighting only after a Republic of South Africa. Do not dare say the world would have been better off if there was no United States of America. TO think to is just as naive and dumb by those who accuse and generalize the common American who's mostly good mostly decent and d@mn well not perfect. I would summerize this to mostly all human beings. I cannot fathom that the majority of the world feels such ill ways about my Country. If they do. Then why should good people like me even try. The judgment has been made and STUPID lasts forever.
I had no intention of talking of politics in this thread, as there should be no place for idle politics when it comes to natural disasters. But this is what happens when someone closes down my thread that was an open political discussion. I would kindly like to ask why one on one with the moderator. That way we can can to work TOGETHER on this disaster relief.
Well a bunch of friends along with myself have already sent some materials needed to the disaster victims through our Christian Disaster Relief Fund organized by our Church. I think they work in conjuction with the Red Cross. I just cut a check for about $2500 wont go far but the least I could do. It's something I do on occasions like these. Of course I could have used it for a plane ticket to Milan!. Oh well too busy right now to consider any future "soccerpades".
Back to New Orleans. I have written another check this time $10,000 as I am learning minute by minute, hour by hour at how bad this thing really is. I feel the need to do so to clear my conscience as I have done very well on the petroleum futures on the Exchange Market. I would say that if anyone without the "sourness" in their hearts, to do what they can if they feel the need to do so. I'm not personally in charge of any drives except that which my friends and I are doing as a group. My suggestion is to donate can foods any extra clothing and bottle water to your local church, the Red Cross, or the Salvation Army. Private donations and the goodwill of the individual is the best solution to the problem. Ho'o Hui Pu Kakou... Together We Can.
Angel_Cic
02-09-2005, 11:36
i friggen hate politics...but it seems as though it rules our lives.
anyway...this situation in new orleans makes me even more angry, disappointed...actually...it makes me p!ssed off at the states. how many ppl have not had any water or food in 4 days??? aren't they suppose to be so rich, glorious, and ahead of every other country in the world?
I had no intention of talking of politics in this thread, as there should be no place for idle politics when it comes to natural disasters. But this is what happens when someone closes down my thread that was an open political discussion. I would kindly like to ask why one on one with the moderator. That way we can can to work TOGETHER on this disaster relief.
Politics was never allowed on MM at all, because this is a 100% football forum...actually some were even opposed to the idea of a members lounge (any 'off topic' forum) in the early days. The idea of even allowing politics one bit was a sort of experiment to open up the forums in the slow times or the offseason for example.
Kui and anybody else reading this, please do not move the politics outside of the flamers paradise forum...even if its allowed it will be restricted to that forum.
Angel_Cic
02-09-2005, 14:29
i agree with Reza. politics has seemed to take over many threads in the past, and it's a shame to let it go any further.
Football bring us together, politics set us asunder.
ACMILAN1983
02-09-2005, 17:08
I'll be honest, I felt quite strongly about what was said before and came very close to posting my opinion. However, I think Reza is right in preventing what would have been quite harsh and personal arguments in other threads and this one and really hope that people realise that these arguments aren't what these forums are about.
Lets focus on the reasons we come to these forums and leave our differences aside :)
I also wish the best of luck to those who have been affected by these recent events and I'm sorry for those who have been hurt or even killed by the disasters.
I go to school in New Orleans at Tulane University and had to be evactuated before the hurricane hit. But things are very very bad in New Orleans. Over 100,000 homes have been flooded or destroyed. For me, all the stuff I had down there is probably gone at this point and now they just canceled school for this semester. I have friends who tried to stay down in new orleans and still have yet to be in contact with them. I also have been watching cnn and the weather channel for the last few days constantly. I go to sleep at 2 in the morning and wake up at 6 to watch more of the coverage hoping there is some improvement. So as someone who is personally effected by this disaster I just want to thank anyone who has sent supplies or donated money to the relief effort.
Billy_Montreal
02-09-2005, 22:10
I go to school in New Orleans at Tulane University and had to be evactuated before the hurricane hit. But things are very very bad in New Orleans. Over 100,000 homes have been flooded or destroyed. For me, all the stuff I had down there is probably gone at this point and now they just canceled school for this semester. I have friends who tried to stay down in new orleans and still have yet to be in contact with them. I also have been watching cnn and the weather channel for the last few days constantly. I go to sleep at 2 in the morning and wake up at 6 to watch more of the coverage hoping there is some improvement. So as someone who is personally effected by this disaster I just want to thank anyone who has sent supplies or donated money to the relief effort.
Sorry to hear that Jake..hope everything turns out ok for you and your friends.
I keep hearing that the logistics of the tragedy i.e. floods/closed highways, etc. is the reason help was not dispatched to the shelters like the Superdome and the Convention Center ... not acceptable. The mayor and the state officials urged everyone to leave their homes and head to these locations only to be faced with the most horrible conditions possible and with assaults and rapes being committed at random.
Let's hope the situation is brought under control..its becoming really hard to watch the news seeing people in these conditions.
For those of you interested in donations:
AMERICAN RED CROSS: https://give.redcross.org/?hurricanemasthead
For the Canadians you can go through the Canadian Red Cross which in turn hands it over to the American Red Cross:
https://www.paypaq.com/redcross/en/
i friggen hate politics...but it seems as though it rules our lives.
anyway...this situation in new orleans makes me even more angry, disappointed...actually...it makes me p!ssed off at the states. how many ppl have not had any water or food in 4 days??? aren't they suppose to be so rich, glorious, and ahead of every other country in the world?
So by being what you believe us as being rich and glorious, this means that we can handle massive disasters too??? I'm not to sure what you mean by such question and I dont like the motive either especially when you may have a preconcieved answer already in your head. I'll let it pass though. I already sent what I could. All I can do now is encourage others to do the same. If you dont want to... that's cool too.
A city with nearly 2 million people living in it and not all of them evacuating when ask to is going to cause logistic problems no matter how prosperous a country is. Come on people a little sense here! There is no such thing as a starship Enterprise that can beam down supplies to that many people at the speed of light. It is a bit shortsighted if people cant see this. Again this happens to all natural disasters when it comes.
You know when a category 5 hurricane hit my home back in 1992, we didnt take such matters with complacency nor did we expect the govt to have anything ready for us. What we did was make something out of what was destroyed. We didnt murder or loot or hoard any resources. We shared. Mind you that yes there is bad things going on in New Orleans. But I will refuse to accept or generalize that this is the majority of citizens doing these things. I'm not trying to apologize for the lack of neccesary aid coming from the govt on all levels... local, state, and federal. I cant fathom why people are blaming the President for this disaster either! It was never my intention that I discuss politics here either, but when people make it political than yeah I'm game!
You all can critisize or you can help. That is all I'm asking people to do. If you dont want to... FINE. Free World we live in!
For those who have helped as some of our friends in Canada have done...thank you! Thank You STACI and M-O-N-T-R-E-A-L!
i friggen hate politics...but it seems as though it rules our lives.It does not only "seems" - it IS. And avoid it is the same like you decide not to breathe and you stop it. :rollani:
Politics was never allowed on MM at all, because this is a 100% football forum...actually some were even opposed to the idea of a members lounge (any 'off topic' forum) in the early days. The idea of even allowing politics one bit was a sort of experiment to open up the forums in the slow times or the offseason for example.World is changing and developing. Let MM do the same. I reckon that we, MMers, are enough clever and respectful to disscuss on poitical issues.Kui and anybody else reading this, please do not move the politics outside of the flamers paradise forum...even if its allowed it will be restricted to that forum.:rollani: But you closed the only thread we had there... :(
i agree with Reza. politics has seemed to take over many threads in the past, and it's a shame to let it go any further.:grinser: even though I respect you so much :hopefull: :embarass: I am forced to disagree with you this time. You may not to come in particular thread where we disscuss politics. Simple isn't it :tong:
And last thing I want to offer our MM officials. Isn't it possible to creat a special sub-forum about politics with restricted acess. For instance, you need to get a password to browse in it. And admins could give permission only for those who are treated a respective posters [they only want to express their opinion and share it with others, no offences, no abusement]. Anyone interested?
ACMILAN1983
03-09-2005, 06:26
World is changing and developing. Let MM do the same. I reckon that we, MMers, are enough clever and respectful to disscuss on poitical issues.:rollani:
Firstly, MM is about football, it has evolved over time and updated with the times. Moving into politics is changing the whole concept of MM, not developing it.
Its also quite clear MMers won't be able to have a peaceful political discussion with already a number of angry posts made and many, MANY people have been enraged, but have managed to refrain from posting.
But you closed the only thread we had there... :(
good thing too, as that was clearly heading in a negative direction and Reza did the right thing, even if it makes some posters unhappy.
You may not to come in particular thread where we disscuss politics. Simple isn't it :tong:
no, it isn't simple. Many will have an interest and considering how many idiotic comments (yes many comments that have been made are idiotic) are sometimes made people will get angry and there will no doubt be nothing but flaming.
And last thing I want to offer our MM officials. Isn't it possible to creat a special sub-forum about politics with restricted acess. For instance, you need to get a password to browse in it. And admins could give permission only for those who are treated a respective posters [they only want to express their opinion and share it with others, no offences, no abusement]. Anyone interested?
or better yet, to talk about politics, go to a politics forum and leave this one as a football forum, with at most a sub section for people to socialise.
I hope this thread gets closed tbh, as although it was created with the right intentions, people are using it to create little more than political arguments, which are clearly becoming quite personal.
Also I warned people outside of the forums that this thread would be used to continue the political discussions. Its a shame I wasn't wrong.
You know if people are going to have offense to some things here than guess what???
Why not we close all the other stuff here that can be viewed offensive and sexist in other threads. I hardly think it appropriate to be talking about porn stars in a football forum. If everyone going to get b!tchy about it than lets do a clean sweep of everything inappropriate here! Ever been to the joker's paradise section??? Not all that nice things been said there. I can tolerate it. I dont see why all of a sudden there is no room for these kinds of discussion. I must also say that even in the football forums you got people saying bad tthings to one another. I hardly think it is not just the issue of "politics" being discussed that is the sole problem with people saying stupid things. I dont see how so many get a pass on the lousiest postings and now my opinions are not tolerated. I think maybe we should think of what the hell the word toleration is. Then let us just shut down lot's of stuff here in MM.
Hasan Rossonero
03-09-2005, 06:57
You know if people are going to have offense to some things here than guess what???
Why not we close all the other stuff here that can be viewed offensive and sexist in other threads. I hardly think it appropriate to be talking about porn stars in a football forum. If everyone going to get b!tchy about it than lets do a clean sweep of everything inappropriate here! Ever been to the joker's paradise section??? Not all that nice things been said there. I can tolerate it. I dont see why all of a sudden there is no room for these kinds of discussion. I must also say that even in the football forums you got people saying bad tthings to one another. I hardly think it is not just the issue of "politics" being discussed that is the sole problem with people saying stupid things. I dont see how so many get a pass on the lousiest postings and now my opinions are not tolerated. I think maybe we should think of what the hell the word toleration is. Then let us just shut down lot's of stuff here in MM.
Gotta agree with you my friend. The fact that Katrina talk would take a political turn was inevitable. Quite simply we do not ever need to qualify charity. We are functions of our primal senses first (hunger, fear) and political animals second. In a time like this the former's consideration should dictate our actions.
Firstly, MM is about football, it has evolved over time and updated with the times. Moving into politics is changing the whole concept of MM, not developing it.We have plenty of thread not about the football. For istance our living legend - MM pix thread. Why is not it closed yet?Its also quite clear MMers won't be able to have a peaceful political discussion with already a number of angry posts made and many, MANY people have been enraged, but have managed to refrain from posting.It was quite constructive disscussion between me and Kui in one thread and no one interrupt us with offences etc.good thing too, as that was clearly heading in a negative direction and Reza did the right thing, even if it makes some posters unhappy.You are too intolerant for others. I never thought that about you :(no, it isn't simple. Many will have an interest and considering how many idiotic comments (yes many comments that have been made are idiotic) are sometimes made people will get angry and there will no doubt be nothing but flaming.I have jsut offerd to open a special thread which can be accsessed by everyone.or better yet, to talk about politics, go to a politics forum and leave this one as a football forum, with at most a sub section for people to socialise.
I hope this thread gets closed tbh, as although it was created with the right intentions, people are using it to create little more than political arguments, which are clearly becoming quite personal.
Also I warned people outside of the forums that this thread would be used to continue the political discussions. Its a shame I wasn't wrong.AS I have said we have plenty of non-football threads, so why shouldnt we close them all :rollani:
You know if people are going to have offense to some things here than guess what???
Why not we close all the other stuff here that can be viewed offensive and sexist in other threads. I hardly think it appropriate to be talking about porn stars in a football forum. If everyone going to get b!tchy about it than lets do a clean sweep of everything inappropriate here! Ever been to the joker's paradise section??? Not all that nice things been said there. I can tolerate it. I dont see why all of a sudden there is no room for these kinds of discussion. I must also say that even in the football forums you got people saying bad tthings to one another. I hardly think it is not just the issue of "politics" being discussed that is the sole problem with people saying stupid things. I dont see how so many get a pass on the lousiest postings and now my opinions are not tolerated. I think maybe we should think of what the hell the word toleration is. Then let us just shut down lot's of stuff here in MM. :5schal: Totaly agreed.
BTW, guys, have you ever seen Kui mocking someone because of his "incorrect" political point of view?!
And in addition, I should remind you once more that we had a very constructive disscussion there for more then 4 months. So is it impossible to remain the same and continue disscussing about these thing.
PS: mind my offer. It can be a secret sub-forum, allowed only for regular users ;)
BTW, guys, have you ever seen Kui mocking someone because of his "incorrect" political point of view?!
And in addition, I should remind you once more that we had a very constructive disscussion there for more then 4 months. So is it impossible to remain the same and continue disscussing about these thing.
PS: mind my offer. It can be a secret sub-forum, allowed only for regular users ;)
Well I do mock. I'm not going to deny this. I do so when I hear things taken out of context or things that just arent true. And it isnt just pertaining to just "political" things. I have read the most outrageous naive things regarding football too. Most times I'll let it go. Likewise I would say that I am equally guilty of taking things out of context. Sometimes we tend to not say the whole message being it a forum and stuff.
Somehow my post when I did get "political" in this thread, I was critisized by whomever of my post being supposedly racist. So I dont know who gave me negative points. Frankly I dont care. I hold my reputation alone. No one gives me that nor to they take it away.
Listen if people are going to say things that perhaps werent given much thought, I will be absurd in response to what was absurdly posted. Stupid questions will most likely bear a stupid answer. Stupid talk will be responded by stupid talk. Disagreement will be met by disagreement. Agreement will be met with agreement. I have no problem with any of this!
Again kindly look at the passes others are getting before I must abscond myself from this place.
Someone kindly tell me how my post here #16 is at all racist??? What I'm trying to tell some people was that the world is fvcked up in general. It's nobody's fault and ironically it is also everybody's fault. I guess blaming everyone too makes me a racist.
Telling you never mock others I want to say that you never offend and abuse people by some rude posts. ;)Somehow my post when I did get "political" in this thread, I was critisized by whomever of my post being supposedly racist. So I dont know who gave me negative points. Frankly I dont care. I hold my reputation alone. No one gives me that nor to they take it away.No way. You are not a racist. It is more possible that guy who gave you negative reputation pts. is a racist. By the way, I got the negative RP too, for a very old post posted in May or June... :rollani:
Getting back to aid and relief. There are indeed a good portion of countries offering aid. China and others in the EU are taking the high road. Such things are heart warming and very much appreciated with grace. For those out there actively doing thier part as I am from my office, I thank you as well.
For our MilanMania friend JakeM who studies at Tulane in New Orleans... I'm elated that you are safe. We will get throught this my friend. Meantime you keep your spirits up!
sorry to hear about it jakeM,i know it's very devastating but you gotta be strong
my condolences to all families who lost their realtives, R.I.P.
Wherever our political affiliations or sentiments lie, we should put them all aside and remember that the people who are suffering are human beings like you and me and have nothing to do with the politics of the US. In whatever way we can help, we should. Period.
In a sad way I expected this thread would only get comments from those of us in North America. I don't wish to start any sort of political discussion but people get on our butts about being "the policemen of the world", want our aid when their own country is stricken.....and I'd better stop there. We'll take care of our own and everyone else too, or so it always seems. :fero:
I don't think so... the western countires(where there are teh most money) took the responsability to help during the tsunami.. as other countries of course, what they could.
When a flood destroyed Honduras' (prob. the poorest country of central america) capital, Tegucigalpa, the japanese came to help, and helped rebuild the city. so maybe it isn't always the united states who save everyone... When rich countries help others after catastophes like this, i think they also feel like they have the right to control them in some way.. or that's how i think they look at it.
No matter how you look at it, the States have the money to rebuild the city. But i am still sorry for the innocent people who lost their home so suddenly, and didn't deserve it at all.. it's like in war, it always comes down on the innocent.. I am also worried for all the people going to stores and robbing, definately not helping... well who knows what their thinking. I think americans got to stick together, and now focus on this problem, not problems of other countries.
Edit; Sorry i didn't finish reading the whole thread before posting nd didn't check if therewere posts after this one, i have now.
yah, helping yourselves nicely here. i can't believe this!
Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos: police official
Sat Sep 3, 5:58 PM ET
A top New Orleans police officer said that National Guard troops sat around playing cards while people died in the stricken city after Hurricane Katrina.
New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled.
His remarks fuelled controversy over the government's handling of events during five days when New Orleans succumbed to lawlessness after Katrina swamped the city's flood defenses.
The National Guard commander, Lieutenant General Steven Blum, said the reservist force was slow to move troops into New Orleans because it did not anticipate the collapse of the city's police force.
But Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.
"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.
Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.
"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.
"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards. I understand why we are not winning the war in Iraq if this is what we have."
Riley said there is "a semblance of organisation now."
"The military is here and they have done an excellent job with the evacuation" of the tens of thousands of people stranded in the city.
The National Guard commander said the city police force was left with only a third of its pre-storm strength.
"The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans," Blum told reporters in Washington.
"Once that assessment was made ... then the requirement became obvious," he said. "And that's when we started flowing military police into the theatre."
On Friday, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin denounced the slow federal response as too little, too late, charging that promised troops had not arrived in time.
"Now get off your asses and let's do something and fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country," the mayor said in remarks aired on CNN.
Blum said that since Thursday some 7,000 National Guard and military police had moved into the city. President George W. Bush on Saturday ordered an additional 7,000 active duty and reserve ground troops.
Blum said any suggestion that the National Guard had not performed well or was late was a "low blow".
The initial priority of the Louisiana and Mississippi National Guard forces was disaster relief, not law enforcement, because they expected the police to handle that, he said.
The police commander was unable to give a death toll for New Orleans.
"We have bodies all over the city. A federal mortuary team was supposed to come in within 24 hours. We haven't seen them. It is inhumane. This is just not America."
Riley said he did not even know how many police remained from a normal force of 1,700.
"Many officers lost their homes or their families and there are many we have not heard from. Some officers could not handle the pressure and left. I don't know if we have 800 or thousands today."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050903/ts_alt_afp/usweatherpolice_050903215815&printer=1
Angel_Cic
03-09-2005, 21:58
Sandra...you get reputation points for your last post...well said :)
But you closed the only thread we had there...
And last thing I want to offer our MM officials. Isn't it possible to creat a special sub-forum about politics with restricted acess. For instance, you need to get a password to browse in it. And admins could give permission only for those who are treated a respective posters [they only want to express their opinion and share it with others, no offences, no abusement]. Anyone interested?
Only thread? If politics is allowed there, it won't be in one thread only...
About your suggestion, I am hesitant but at least thats an idea :D
rae and Kui, about the 'other' threads we will deal with any that receives complaints, I have received many about the politics here....any others you or others don't want to have here on MM tell me and we will decide one way or another
All the best to JakeM and everybody affected directly or indirectly :)
Wherever our political affiliations or sentiments lie, we should put them all aside and remember that the people who are suffering are human beings like you and me and have nothing to do with the politics of the US. In whatever way we can help, we should. Period.
This message makes me happy. You've not failed in my impression of you. I also came to say that after much contemplation, though I disagreed with some of your posts in another thread VE Day, you did mention some good points. Anything that I may have said in my reaction that may have caused any bitterness between us, I'm earnestly sorry.
rae and Kui, about the 'other' threads we will deal with any that receives complaints, I have received many about the politics here....any others you or others don't want to have here on MM tell me and we will decide one way or another
All the best to JakeM and everybody affected directly or indirectly :)
As I said once before, I dont want any other peoples threads closing down. If people cant tolerate the talk of politics here than they should choose to ignore it. There are many threads that I dont like that I think should not be closed. I just dont go looking there. I just feel that if people are starting to campaign and complain for political threads to close down, it opens a can of worms to other threads that may be equally offensive to others including myself to close as well. I feel the best forum is an open forum. Political threads arent the only offensive thread in this forum.
yah, helping yourselves nicely here. i can't believe this!
Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos: police official
In response to the article.
The blame game is something that is irritating. I'm not trying to be apologetic in the response or the handling of the disaster. But the excuses and finger pointing needs to stop. The reactionary attitude should not take precedence over proactivism. The sensasionalism in light of this tragedy should not overtake common sense.
Let's look at things in context rather than rant about something so many indiduals had the responsibilty. Who had the responsibilty??? Everyone from top to bottom directly involved had some accountabilty to getting what needed to be done. Me I dont like personally any attitude that is set in the mind that others have the responsibility to insure the survivabilty of oneself, especially when so many had the capacity to do it themselves
What angered me was not just the slow response but the sheer number of people who had the capability to not be there. There were too many people who did nothing but just wait for others. Doing so caused those truly in dire need to be lost amongst those who should have heeded the warnings to evacuate days before the hurricane. Why were so many still there waiting??? What are they waiting for???
I think the finger pointing points all outwards and never to oneself. Let's put this in fair context by saying that besides Hurricane Katrina, there are people who create a hurricane themselves in everway part of their life. People add and create there own chaos by being dependent, reactionary, complacent to a point where they facilitate civic chaos thereby adding to the overall crisis. There is no better example than this by what we say in New Orleans.
I'm advocating individualism not in a greedy way but in a virtuous and responsible way. This was not shown by some people that it made it impossible to get the needed help to the meek and sick. It was attrocius to see people do nothing! We all need to be aware and accept most part of the choices we make. From there do not mope and play victim. Move on to do what needs to be done. Say to oneself "This is the choice I made and how do I get myself out of it."
Instead and sadly we reopen old wounds of race or class differences that should have no bearing on the building of one's character. In light side of this, there were some who took it upon themselves to be great characters and took it upon themselves to do something in light of those whose foolish pride made themselves utterly useless. I have been blessed to know such strong people of all classes and races move on and not pose themselves as victims even in light of tragedy. I have seen the physical and mental foritude of some in the poorest of conditions and will say that they are the richest people on earth. Rich in character and rich in attitude. When you have people with strong rock set under and within them like I have seen in tragedies in my lifetime, chaos like that which insued in New Orleans will never happen.
did you guys see what Kanye West said on TV? Even Rev Jesse Jackson is saying that race had something to do with the slow response. i am not sure how this is helping the people there though? it's a topic to be dealt with later.
Hasan Rossonero
04-09-2005, 08:59
I do think that if there were white, middle class faces with signs then the relief effort would have become more urgent.
The plight of the poor is well documented, you see.
By the way did anyone see Celine Dion's ludicrous interview on Larry King Live. What a pathetic affectation. How can anyone take her theatrics seriously?
Only thread? If politics is allowed there, it won't be in one thread only...
About your suggestion, I am hesitant but at least thats an idea :D
rae and Kui, about the 'other' threads we will deal with any that receives complaints, I have received many about the politics here....any others you or others don't want to have here on MM tell me and we will decide one way or anotherI have noticed you once about "Public Groups" option... I know from other forums that there can be created a special forum for that group members to disscuss. And no one can eneter there without permission. ;)
did you guys see what Kanye West said on TV? Even Rev Jesse Jackson is saying that race had something to do with the slow response. i am not sure how this is helping the people there though? it's a topic to be dealt with later.
Well you're right! What they have said is not helping at all. I wished that both of them would have checked and found out that the person overseeing and heading the military task force in charge of relief Lt General Russel Honore' is an African American. This is what I mean of reaction over proaction.
Lou Dobbs a commentator of CNN and a critic of this administration did say this.
"In context and all fairness the City of New Orleans is 70% black, its Mayor is black, its principle power structure is black, and if there is a failure to the black American s who live in poverty in that city, those officials have to bear much of the responsibility as well".
Of course I'll agree to this statement only in part as I have always felt the person responsible for ones actions, safety and suvivability is oneself. Not in a "ME FIRST" way but in an accountable and responsible way.
I do think that if there were white, middle class faces with signs then the relief effort would have become more urgent.
The plight of the poor is well documented, you see.
By the way did anyone see Celine Dion's ludicrous interview on Larry King Live. What a pathetic affectation. How can anyone take her theatrics seriously?
Well I always am willing to help those in need. The big problem though is that there are some who have every ability given to them by god who leech of the system. There are genuine poor. The elderly, the down trodden, the young and mentally infirm. Those people I would help. But help is hard to get to them when you have strong thugs playing the victim grabbing provisions first for themselves without any thought of those who are weak.
Hasan Rossonero
04-09-2005, 09:38
Well I always am willing to help those in need. The big problem though is that there are some who have every ability given to them by god who leech of the system. There are genuine poor. The elderly, the down trodden, the young and mentally infirm. Those people I would help. But help is hard to get to them when you have strong thugs playing the victim grabbing provisions first for themselves without any thought of those who are weak.
well said. you seem a very decent person. Jesus must play a big role in your life.
well said. you seem a very decent person. Jesus must play a big role in your life.
You know for me it is Jesus. But it is ok if there are other names people have for their respective faiths. For some it can be the all merciful Allah... blessed be his name.
Katrina's other ugly side: Race and class divide
By MELANIE McFARLAND
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER TELEVISION CRITIC
Of all the images of Hurricane Katrina's devastation unfurling across television and cable networks, out of all the cries for help from communities around the Gulf Coast and the angry chaos in New Orleans, one NBC sound bite keeps ringing in my ears. (read on)... http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/239212_tv03.html
I guess there is no doubt about the fact, that everyone here has followed the news in the last days and it's again viewable, how destroyfull mother nature can be. What we all could and can see at the TV is shocking, unbelievable, terrible and a disaster.
For me also no doubt, that we all here feel the same way about it, to see pple lost everything, in fear, paralised, homeless, hungry etc its terrible.
As it was mentioned (here or in the closed thread), that no one had opened a thread earlier about this disaster, does not mean, we do not feel the same about it, thats the way I think about it.
I also have to say, that I did not liked some of the comments, which were made here and in the closed thread very much (not only me btw), especially when it becomes political between the lines.
So Nadir is absolutly correct to say, that we should push politics aside, and help in whatever way.
It is granted for me, that my goverment sending help like food and medicine and mobile homes. Our red cross here will also send experts and stuff for water processing plants etc., not to mention donations we all make here aswell (and other countrys are doing too)
Katrina was a Categorie "5" Hurrican like Andrew was back in 1992. Hurrican season is not even over yet and in the news they told here today, that Katrina might was not the last one. They are watching two new storms, which can end up as another hurrican, depends if they get together and how the circumstances like ocean temperatur in that area (bahamas as far as I can remember) will become in the next time.
It's alarming to see the numbers of hurricans and tornados explode more and more and they become more powerfull and strong as ever before.......
Another thing I want to mention. No offense, but the asking to create a sub-forum, where we could discuss any general political stuff is in my opinion not a necessary for this forum. At least it was viewable for me, that mostly only kui and rae posted in that now closed thread. From my point of view it just shows, that overall the members here are not interested in politics or not willing to discuss politics. Sure I personally also could had join the discussion at the VE thread, especially when I read comments about my goverment, but I simple refused, a) it would had end up in a neverending discussion and b) the reason I joined this forum long time ago is simple AC Milan and in the past years I learned and knew a lot about the members here, especially from "Off Topic" talks at the Members lounge.
I also agree with Kui, that in the members lounge may are also threads included, which can be boring/upseting for other members, but as long as that kind of threads did no get or got/create/created any complains its ok for me. As Reza stated, if they would get or got any complains, they should get shut down too, no doubt about it.
But overall most of that threads are "harmless" and do not create bitterness, hard fronts, headed up discussion and a bad atmospheare, like any kind of political discussion/thread can do.
But as I said above, is only my personaly point of view, so my suggestion to the admins is.....let the members here decide, if there is a need for a special subforum to discuss politics or not at MM. This can be easily made with a poll.
Yes, this could be easily decided with a poll, but those of us who have been here for a LONG time (1998 was my first intro to the original site) may have memories of flame wars and other situations where the original purpose of the forum and the site itself were all but forgotten. This place has been like a war zone, and frankly, having lived thru that both here and at XT, I'm hesitant to consider a political forum. If we do, then why not go to hell with the joke like at XT and have a dating forum, a recipe forum, a forum to discuss books, movies, tv shows, radio, crocheting and needle point?? OK, those last 2 are a joke! I think we all need to stop and think about what direction we want this place to take now, in the near future and in the long term as well. (I'll be renewing the domain for 2 more years) Are we too narrow in our focus? Was our decision a couple years ago to sayy no politics the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. My stance is that I have never seen a political "discussion" remain civil, nor have I ever seen one end with both sides actually seeign eye to eye and saying they now had a total understanding of each other's views. And by the way, once the decision was made to say no to politics, we stopped policing the Flamers forum and I think we've been very lenient of late as to what gets discussed where.
But to give you other options to consider....should we create a side forum, actually NOT attached to us here, where people can go and discuss whatever potential flame topic they wish? Is there someplace we could set up a free forum and link to it? I'll discuss anything, what I can't guarantee is wha we'll end up deciding!
I agree with Debs, i think a seperate forum ( or something along those lines ) would be the best solution aslong as there is a need for it. If only a few members think it's a good idea then it's not worth the trouble. Maybe Kui could be the moderator :D
My suggestion for the poll was just based for the question "do we need a thread/section, which offeres the opportunity to discuss any political stuff on MM - yes or no".
My answer for this question would be a "no", because I think that political stuff will create sooner or later bitterness, harsh discussions, maybe also personal attacks or whatever between the members and ruin the atmospheare here. And thats simple said not worth it.
I would not want, that MM becomes a second XT, where we have special forums for simply everything. I dont like XT very much, because its "too big" :dontkn:
I think, the mix we have actually here is the best. A lot space to discuss about AC Milan but also on the other side a little space as "Presentations" or the "members lounge", which offeres also "offtopic" talks. Its enough space to know each other more well (like for example the MM-Member thread).
Corinthians1910
04-09-2005, 17:20
George bush is da man (but according to NBC he dun like black people)J/k
Katrina is a flood of biblical proportions
it turns out that I might be going to London this semester for a study abroad program through New York University. Which means I should be able to watch more Milan games than out here in Los Angeles :)
we don't need a political forum. if people want to discuss politics there are TONNES of political forums out there. we are all united here for one reason - the love of Milan. period. a political sub forum would only result in anger that would spill over to other threads and ruin everybody's fun here.
I see you guys are not so tolerant as you pretend to be, but it is not a problem. If Reza can make a special subforum for us "politician" which can only be browsed if you a password or smth, should not affect MM rules and traditions.\\
By the way, for those who havent seen a "civil disscussion" on political issues, should better look at VE thread where we with Kui and Sally disscussed for more than three months an nobody got offended... :rollani: so is it really so impossible?!
I also agree with Kui, that in the members lounge may are also threads included, which can be boring/upseting for other members, but as long as that kind of threads did no get or got/create/created any complains its ok for me. As Reza stated, if they would get or got any complains, they should get shut down too, no doubt about it.
But overall most of that threads are "harmless" and do not create bitterness, hard fronts, headed up discussion and a bad atmospheare, like any kind of political discussion/thread can do.
But as I said above, is only my personaly point of view, so my suggestion to the admins is.....let the members here decide, if there is a need for a special subforum to discuss politics or not at MM. This can be easily made with a poll.
Well I'm glad you've come open and discussed this. But keep in mind that what I am trying to say is that we do have other threads open in this forum that are equally offensive as anything political. The football talk alone can get nasty with people saying stuff like "Vieri is sh!t and should die!". But I'm not advocating closing any of it down. There is a lot of stuff I dont think should be in this forum, but you dont see me crying and b!thcin to the administrator or any moderators to get them closed do you???. I simply dont even go in them. Anyone can change the channel and simply abstain from reading any of it. Tell me this isnt so??? Explain this to me better because the excuses coming to me are so inconsistent. If we conclude to close some discussions I like to get engaged in on the account of the displeasure of some members here, whats to stop me from being sour woos as well and call for things to close that I dont like??? Talk about tolerance! Lets just be tolerant to things we only agree on. Is that it??? Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.
Well I was busy sunday morning with some community volunteers and raised something like $13,500 and some change for the disaster relief. Some local textiles donated some 500 towels as I understand the people from New Orleans badly need this.
On a personal note I was able to get a hold of a Mr. Don De Beaumont, an african american man over fifty years senior my age but nonetheless a dear friend. He was lucky to get out of the disaster alive and I'm glad he got a hold of me. He graciously accepted my offer by coming to Hawaii as a guest for as long as he wants to. He was at first reluctant as he told me because of his age he could die anytime. He was also reluctant because of our age difference and was sensitive to getting in the way and all that. So I got him the next best thing. My parents who are nearing retirement were more than happy to have him stay at their place for as long as he wants. We told him if he wanted to spend the remaining years of his life here, we dont mind one bit.
He lost everything in this storm. His wife died a few years ago and his most prized possesion wasnt the house or his car but his photo albums of him and his wife. We told him he's part of the family and consider us his nieces and nephews. I'll be picking him up inn about 8 hrs or so and will drop him off at my parents residence. I'm so happy this mentor in my life is going to stay here!
Well I'm glad you've come open and discussed this. But keep in mind that what I am trying to say is that we do have other threads open in this forum that are equally offensive as anything political. The football talk alone can get nasty with people saying stuff like "Vieri is sh!t and should die!". But I'm not advocating closing any of it down. There is a lot of stuff I dont think should be in this forum, but you dont see me crying and b!thcin to the administrator or any moderators to get them closed do you???. I simply dont even go in them. Anyone can change the channel and simply abstain from reading any of it. Tell me this isnt so??? Explain this to me better because the excuses coming to me are so inconsistent. If we conclude to close some discussions I like to get engaged in on the account of the displeasure of some members here, whats to stop me from being sour woos as well and call for things to close that I dont like??? Talk about tolerance! Lets just be tolerant to things we only agree on. Is that it??? Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.You are not the one who causes trouble here. People think that if we avoid special thread or even subforum about politics it wont be disscussed about it anywhere in Milan Mania. However I suppose that it will finally come up in some "innocent" disscussions about something not related with politics. If we had a political forum we do not need to mess around with our politcal views all around and in each thread also... because we can let our "political steam" to blow off in speacial area where we wont do any harm for other users. It would be a right place to communicate on such issues and it would not be anything inappropriate.
Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.
I have to say here Kui that I have often found your postings enlightening, informative, and yes even confrontational, with your opinions. But, IMO they are always well thought out and I feel carefully executed. Some people are going to be offended, on some level no matter who you try to appease. I hope you continue to post on all issues on MM not just soccer. You can't please everyone.....
Of course that is my opinion and we know how much they want to hear my opinion ....;)
Now on the topic of which this thread was intended. I was in Windsor this past weekend and there are huge efforts (Katrinathon) to collect canned goods, so if you can't afford to give financially, please donate a few canned items.
why don't you two (kui and rae) call each other up and discuss politics all you want? :)
Well I'm glad you've come open and discussed this. But keep in mind that what I am trying to say is that we do have other threads open in this forum that are equally offensive as anything political. The football talk alone can get nasty with people saying stuff like "Vieri is sh!t and should die!". But I'm not advocating closing any of it down. There is a lot of stuff I dont think should be in this forum, but you dont see me crying and b!thcin to the administrator or any moderators to get them closed do you???. I simply dont even go in them. Anyone can change the channel and simply abstain from reading any of it. Tell me this isnt so??? Explain this to me better because the excuses coming to me are so inconsistent. If we conclude to close some discussions I like to get engaged in on the account of the displeasure of some members here, whats to stop me from being sour woos as well and call for things to close that I dont like??? Talk about tolerance! Lets just be tolerant to things we only agree on. Is that it??? Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.
Well Kui, I dont think I said, you are causing problems here, secondly I also dont think to have said, that me or other ask or wish, that you leave the forum.
You said, I put a double standard in here? Why?
After I read through this thread and the other thread, I decided to state my opinion about what is discussed here. I think I said clear, that of course I COULD have join the discussion about politics, but I refused. Its my personaly decision not to join political talks at all, because I dont like them, so what? I also think political talks are not a necessary for a football forum and believe, that political discussion CAN turn into a negative discussion sooner or later, like it was viewable at the closed thread in the end.
You asked the Admins, why your thread got shut down, and Reza told you why, because the closed threads seems to got many complains from users here, so the Admins decided to shut it down. He also said, that Politics was never allowed on MM at all, because this is a 100% football forum and the the idea of even allowing politics one bit was a sort of experiment to open up the forums in the slow times or the offseason for example."
Correct me, if I am wrong, if I got it right, this must not be the first experiment to allow politics here and it was not good for this forum in the past. Although the Admins here were lenient to start to allow political talks again at Flamers paradise, to see if it now works or not was another experiment, so I think this must got failed again, otherwise the admins would not had shut down that particular thread. Period.
If the Admins will decide, that there is the time or a need for a political subforum here in the future, than I can live with it, although I dont think I would join. So what?
As you have said by yourself we can talk here about lots of stuff next to football. For that we have the Members Lounge. Some of them like that kind of threads in there, others not....for me they are harmless, maybe others here think different about it, but anyway I also suppose, IF one of that thread there HAD caused as much complains or trouble in the past for others, the Admins would had also shut them down before. And even if this would happen to a thread sooner or later, I also could live with that, its ok for me.
The Main point is, that political talks were not allowed here, Admins made again the experience to tolerate them (at flamers paradise) and this experience just seems to be failed again imo. Maybe in the future it will be allowed, then ok.
So I am wondering, it seems just because I disagree with you about the necessary to have political talks here or not, it does means automatically, I had pressed the "adminbutton"? I did not btw and I dont see in my post, where you figure that out from or I may had react like "you don't see me crying and bitching to the admins and mods to close threads, dont you"?
Anyway I think I have made my point of view clear enough, so I end it here :)
see how people get heated up TALKING about TALKING about politics? Imagine if we actually TALK about politics lol.
Well Kui, I dont think I said, you are causing problems here, secondly I also dont think to have said, that me or other ask or wish, that you leave the forum.
You said, I put a double standard in here? Why?
No. I do not mean you in particular. I'm trying to say is if I'm not able to discuss whatever I want here whether it be football or politics etc etc etc, while others can talk about things equally offensive but only POLITICS are not ok to talk about here it is a double standard. Anyone who doesnt want a politcal discussion thread of any kind here and are willing to give other offensive topics here a pass whether there is a complaint or not to the administrator or moderators is a DOUBLE STANDARD. So if you think I meant it towards you in particular... well thats up to you to decide.
After I read through this thread and the other thread, I decided to state my opinion about what is discussed here. I think I said clear, that of course I COULD have join the discussion about politics, but I refused. Its my personaly decision not to join political talks at all, because I dont like them, so what? I also think political talks are not a necessary for a football forum and believe, that political discussion CAN turn into a negative discussion sooner or later, like it was viewable at the closed thread in the end.
Again thank you for putting in your opinion to this matter. I'm glad that you made choices to wheter or not decide to join in any discussion. Again I reiterate that not only political discussion get heated up and turn in to negative discussion. Are you asking/telling me to longer talk about poltical topics???? This is what I want to know.
You asked the Admins, why your thread got shut down, and Reza told you why, because the closed threads seems to got many complains from users here, so the Admins decided to shut it down. He also said, that Politics was never allowed on MM at all, because this is a 100% football forum and the the idea of even allowing politics one bit was a sort of experiment to open up the forums in the slow times or the offseason for example."
Correct me, if I am wrong, if I got it right, this must not be the first experiment to allow politics here and it was not good for this forum in the past. Although the Admins here were lenient to start to allow political talks again at Flamers paradise, to see if it now works or not was another experiment, so I think this must got failed again, otherwise the admins would not had shut down that particular thread. Period.
If the Admins will decide, that there is the time or a need for a political subforum here in the future, than I can live with it, although I dont think I would join. So what?
I feel like I'm repeating myself again and again and again. I'm already content to knowing why my thread got closed down. But that was because it did get heated up. FINE! OK! I didnt cause the stir up there. Keep that in mind.
There are so many topics here that I dont care if people want to join in my discussion or not. I dont join in many discussions here that dont interest me or those that I dont like. I also dont go complaining to an admin to go closing peoples threads down or no longer talk about any particular subject on the account of it being offensive to me. If we're gonna play this game than ok I should go and start b!tchin and moaning to the admins of threads I dont like. I should go and be a sour a$$ myself. Do you not understand what I'm explaining here???
I'm not asking for a whole forum to talk about politics. I'm saying if I want to talk about whatever I want to, I should be able to do it without people caring what the heck I talk about.
As you have said by yourself we can talk here about lots of stuff next to football. For that we have the Members Lounge. Some of them like that kind of threads in there, others not....for me they are harmless, maybe others here think different about it, but anyway I also suppose, IF one of that thread there HAD caused as much complains or trouble in the past for others, the Admins would had also shut them down before. And even if this would happen to a thread sooner or later, I also could live with that, its ok for me.
The Main point is, that political talks were not allowed here, Admins made again the experience to tolerate them (at flamers paradise) and this experience just seems to be failed again imo. Maybe in the future it will be allowed, then ok.
Based on complaints of others here. I'm not going to repeat myself again.
So I am wondering, it seems just because I disagree with you about the necessary to have political talks here or not, it does means automatically, I had pressed the "adminbutton"? I did not btw and I dont see in my post, where you figure that out from or I may had react like "you don't see me crying and bitching to the admins and mods to close threads, dont you"?
I never said it was you who complained. Did I??? Noooo. I based that people complained using logic to why my thread got closed. Not from you complaining but from your post saying people were complaining.
You can disagree with me talking about politics or whatever. I can handle that. What I dont accept is people telling me that I cant do it anymore in this forum. This is why I'm asking now. Am I no longer able to have open discussion of politics here??? I've kept it in the Flamers Paradise until it jumped to this one. I'm not asking for a whole new forum. I'm asking for it to be acceptable like those that could be deemed offensive even though it hasnt recieved complaints. If a topic get heated up I'm all for it closng it down. That depends really on a member wanting too post on a particular thread or not. If we start closing threads because we dont agree with the open expression of ideas then I do have a problem with it. I dont see why people just dont make the choice to ignore it. If we continue to do it on the basis of complaints behind the scenes in such cowardly fashion, than I myself have no choice to ask the administrators to close down threads I deem not worthy of being in this forum. So let's make the decision so I can start asking Rezag to close down things myself.
Anyway I think I have made my point of view clear enough, so I end it here :)
You've made your point. All I need to know is what decision the fellow members and admins are going to make before I go do what I have to. Hot potato is now passed on.
I have to say here Kui that I have often found your postings enlightening, informative, and yes even confrontational, with your opinions. But, IMO they are always well thought out and I feel carefully executed. Some people are going to be offended, on some level no matter who you try to appease. I hope you continue to post on all issues on MM not just soccer. You can't please everyone.....
Of course that is my opinion and we know how much they want to hear my opinion ....;)
Now on the topic of which this thread was intended. I was in Windsor this past weekend and there are huge efforts (Katrinathon) to collect canned goods, so if you can't afford to give financially, please donate a few canned items.
Thank You Staci. I'm not trying to be pleasing. If I'm offensive, I'm always willing to be quick with apologies. I'm glad you put forth your opinion as well.
Thank You and again thanks for the support from the people of Windsor, Canada.
I picked my friend Mr De Beaumont up from the airport yesterday afternoon. His flight was actually four hours late but that was ok. Boy he looked worned out! I did very well holding back the tears and I think he was too tired to openly show his emotions as well. He was too worn out to go to dinner with me and my folks last night so I'll see how he feels today. But we got his prescription medicine picked up at the pharmacy and he's resting well at my parents place. I think I'll give my old granny ma a call and see if she would like to come to dinner with us tonight. :hug2: That way she and Mr. Don can socialize and mayber even hook up. :hug2: They're both old so I dont think they can still do it. I dont even want to think about it :yuck:
If in fact there is a demand for such a forum then one should be created. Let those who have a passion for the topic enjoy the knowledge and controversy that it is bound to create. Two things they say are never to be discussed are religion and politics. However that is one opinion I find to be ridiculous, as these are part of our daily lives like it or not. Unless you want to live in a bubble to keep yourself from controversy you are bound to come across it at some point. It is human nature to be passionate about the things that you believe in, there in lies the confrontation, as we all do not believe in the same things. The answer to this debate is simple, start a forum on Politics, those who are interested will surely expect the debates and even arguments. Those who don't care to participate will know not to go into that thread. It's simply a choice.
http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/
join that forum and keep politics out of here :)
Yeah, but it is differnt forum. And I am only a MM'er... always and forever :stuckup: So I shall fight for our rights here in MM. Please, guys, be more tolerant and not so conservative... :sweeteye:
Again, my point was that if you want to discuss politics, do it in a political forum. want to discuss soccer and milan? do it here. the moment this place has a political sub forum, u will see tensions rise and spill over into the soccer topics and people will start leaving in droves.
if we have a political sub-forum, let's start one for religious discussion as well.
As far as closing threads go, perhaps leaving heated up threads open is a good idea so that all the heat is confined to that one thread instead of it spilling over :)
Again, my point was that if you want to discuss politics, do it in a political forum. want to discuss soccer and milan? do it here.
According to yer idea - if you want to post a pic of yerself do it in special forum, if you want to disscuss about music, films, video games, do it in appropriate forums. Not here.
IMO it is ludicrious...the moment this place has a political sub forum, u will see tensions rise and spill over into the soccer topics and people will start leaving in droves.IMo you are totally wrong. If we have a special forum, we wont disscuss politics anywhere but there. ;)if we have a political sub-forum, let's start one for religious discussion as well. No problem, though I am not very interested in such opportunity, cuz religion is much more powerful thing than political point of view, so it is even more risky to create such forum... ;)As far as closing threads go, perhaps leaving heated up threads open is a good idea so that all the heat is confined to that one thread instead of it spilling over :):googly: You have just said the opposite thing here -->the moment this place has a political sub forum, u will see tensions rise and spill over into the soccer topics and people will start leaving in droves.
If in fact there is a demand for such a forum then one should be created. Let those who have a passion for the topic enjoy the knowledge and controversy that it is bound to create. Two things they say are never to be discussed are religion and politics. However that is one opinion I find to be ridiculous, as these are part of our daily lives like it or not. Unless you want to live in a bubble to keep yourself from controversy you are bound to come across it at some point. It is human nature to be passionate about the things that you believe in, there in lies the confrontation, as we all do not believe in the same things. The answer to this debate is simple, start a forum on Politics, those who are interested will surely expect the debates and even arguments. Those who don't care to participate will know not to go into that thread. It's simply a choice.
Thanks Staci for seeing my point. Again though... I'm not asking for a political forum. If there is a demand or not is hardly the point either. I just want people to have the ability to express and exchange ideas on a number of topics besides football. Including things we disagree with. We do this already. Yet there seems to be an exception or double standard when it comes to only some things or really only one thing discussed here. As if only ONE topic draws heated disagreement. This I dont understand and I am yet to hear anything of an answer from the mods or the administrators on this matter. I'll remain patient.
Thanks again Staci!
Again, my point was that if you want to discuss politics, do it in a political forum. want to discuss soccer and milan? do it here. the moment this place has a political sub forum, u will see tensions rise and spill over into the soccer topics and people will start leaving in droves.
if we have a political sub-forum, let's start one for religious discussion as well.
Again thanks for putting your opinion into this matter. There is some things that I have disagreement with and it isnt with your opinion in particular.
If we are to only talk about football, in all fairness we should keep in mind that we do have a very busy forum discussing a wide range of topics. I dont want them to close down. Yet it would appear to be inconsistent to keep those open as it does not pertain to football either.
If it is a matter of controversy, I would counterpoint that there is heated disagreement all the time in all forums including those pertaining to football matters. I would hope the you'd agree with me on this point.
I have put something down and layed it all on the table by saying if we want a football forum, then let's be purists about it and ONLY talk football. I brought forward this point to show what I think we'd be risking if they actually do take this point. I dont want them to... I'm only trying to get people to understand what they are asking for. Do they want this to be a football only forum??? If that's the case, then lets be fair and consistent about this.
As far as closing threads go, perhaps leaving heated up threads open is a good idea so that all the heat is confined to that one thread instead of it spilling over :)
I agree. I find it that by keeping the thread open, we allow people to respond and in many cases the dissenting parties either make up and/or respectfully agree to disagree. When a thread is closed it gives zero chance for that and the sentiment becomes bitter.
You and me agree on things and obviously disagree on many points as well. I dont think that has stopped us one bit by having some kind of mutual respect for each other here in MM. Coincidentally we joined MM the same friggin day sometime May in 1999. So we are old time veterans here. We seen members come and go for whatever reason. I think we'll both get some compromise on this. It seems we are at a temporary impasse.
Thanks again Nadir for discussing it in the open with me.
I just want people to have the ability to express and exchange ideas on a number of topics besides football. Including things we disagree with. We do this already. Yet there seems to be an exception or double standard when it comes to only some things or really only one thing discussed here. As if only ONE topic draws heated disagreement. This I dont understand and I am yet to hear anything of an answer from the mods or the administrators on this matter. I'll remain patient.
Thanks again Staci!
The haughty tone at the end of your post caught me off guard. I didn't realize any sort of answer beyond what was already posted was needed or called for. If the demand is actually there, if people feel this forum sucks totally and just won't be complete without letting people discuss politics then I guess I am the one who needs to hear THAT answer. I happen to feel we're pretty lenient in the Flamers forum as far as what gets posted and discussed, and anything else non-football I see plenty of in the Members Lounge. Please explain the exception/double standard you're referring to so it can actually be discussed.
I'm not asking for a whole forum to talk about politics. I'm saying if I want to talk about whatever I want to, I should be able to do it without people caring what the heck I talk about.
Unfortunately I have to put on my hat of owner of MM and one of the administrators for a short time. We DO have to care about what people are talking about; that lesson has been driven home to me quite a few times. We are a global community and we have to keep that in mind. I won't stand for these forums becoming a free-for-all where one faith/race/political faction is free to take potshots at everyone else. Nor do I want MM to be a place where people of a certain country, faith, race, or any other defining human trait or belief feels in the least bit uncomfortable. I've lived thru all of that here and elsewhere, and situations like that were no part of the original and founding philosophy of the site or the forums.
I also happen to think we are and have been lenient enough with what gets posted and discussed in Flamers to consider it our "open mike" for anyone who needs it. Now that I have a whole new "second job" to deal with at school, I'm here even less than before, but this whole gripe sessions seems to me to have sprung up b/c Rezag decided to close the VE Day topic in Flamers. Tempers were flaring in the early days of a disaster, political trash was being slung while people were awaiting help and rescue. Well, you know what? Rezag made an executive decision and sometimes that has to happen. IF instead you would like for the topic to be re-opened to discuss the situation NOW, perhaps asking if that could be done would be in order, instead of getting on a soapbox about double standards and politically charged topics!
kui, rae, the issue is not "having many threads to discuss various topics". the issue is "having threads that would be considered controversial and cause disunity in a forum meant to unite us over the lover of Milan and soccer."
I mean, honestly picture posting, talking about songs or what not DOES NOT CAUSE animosity among members, but talking about religion and/or politics would. I am not sure why you guys don't see that. There are POLITICAL FORUMS that you can join if you are so interested in talking about politics. By all means, get a membership there!
and rae, i was not contradicting myself, i was just saying that on the other hand, if there was a thread that was already heated up, might as well have left it open so tensions can remain in THAT thread. I wasn't advocating opening a political sub-forum.
Anyway, again, I am done here. If Kui and Rae want to discuss politics you guys can either
a) call each other on the phone
b) MSN is a wonderful thing lol
c) join a political forum
:) there are more important matters to talk about here in this forum
Milan - Siena for instance ;) :delol:
Again thank you both Nadir and Debs for your response. What I need to know again with undoubtful clarification is if: I am no longer able to talk about a particular subject in this forum that I have interest in with the same degree of fairness you give to other equally offensive topics??? You see this is what I'm saying about a double standard. You guys are basing this it seems and complaints recieved by other members. As if it is only I say again ONLY politics that turn heated up. Come on friends! You would have me to believe this??? Furthermore I think people should learn to disengage in topics that they have no interest or find offensive. I'm able to do this. Now I'm saying that if that cant be accorded to one member, than how does this forum gurantee this for all members??? I dont like a bunch of topics here myself. Should I take the same path and start asking the admin to close this topic down on the same excuse you folks are throwing at me???
BTW. You guys have yet to close some thread where people didnt give a fvck about my feelings back in Sept/Oct 2001. You have yet to see me ask for that thread to close down. Why??? Because I have not b!tched and moaned about my feelings being hurt. This among many is what I mean by double standard. If we are gonna do it this way... I'm all game for it. All I ask is for consistency. I got people telling me this is ONLY a football forum yet my eyes must be seeing something different from you all because I see more than that in the members lounge and flamers paradise. Is this a FOOTBALL ONLY forum or is it NOT??? Kindly dont skirt the issue here as it is starting to get me irritated. Just a bit of course.
It is also more so true that it isnt really the topic that starts the flare up in a thread but the trite remarks people say with no maturity whatsoever. Concentrate on that for a moment in the "football" threads where you have members post saying "Vieri f-off and die" before you guys impress upon me about bad posts. Like I said before if I'm being too much trouble Debs, then ask me to leave MM. Simple as that. :rolleyes: That would definitely gurantee a more tranquil forum :rolleyes:
Now I had PM Rezag with the understanding why my post got closed down. I seem to remember it was not due on my behalf but on the account of two other members duking it out. Hmmmmmm???? I wonder who that could have been? Nonetheless I'm over and done with that thread already. Again you need to explain this to me better than "oh people are moaning and groaning about a topic".
Your response please in Kind.
IF instead you would like for the topic to be re-opened to discuss the situation NOW, perhaps asking if that could be done would be in order, instead of getting on a soapbox about double standards and politically charged topics!Yes we want it would be re-opened NOW. And I do not want to be an advocate of forum of politics because I am sick of your intolerance and unilateral point of view, so I quit.
Yes we want it would be re-opened NOW. And I do not want to be an advocate of forum of politics because I am sick of your intolerance and unilateral point of view, so I quit.
Easy there Rae now. We gotta be nice a little bit. Debs is reasonable. We can get this if we keep a temperate head. And I wish you not to quit.
Thanks Staci for seeing my point. Again though... I'm not asking for a political forum. If there is a demand or not is hardly the point either. I just want people to have the ability to express and exchange ideas on a number of topics besides football. Including things we disagree with. We do this already. Yet there seems to be an exception or double standard when it comes to only some things or really only one thing discussed here. As if only ONE topic draws heated disagreement. This I dont understand and I am yet to hear anything of an answer from the mods or the administrators on this matter. I'll remain patient.
Thanks again Staci!
Kui wouldn't this kind of topic be better suited for a topic specific forum ? I would hope that would then alleviate all of the controversy this has caused. Then those who chose to not partake are not exposed to issues that they do not wish to discuss. That seems to be a simple solution to an issue that has been completly blown out of proportion. I respect your tenacity on this issue.
Easy there Rae now. We gotta be nice a little bit. Debs is reasonable. We can get this if we keep a temperate head. And I wish you not to quit.Today I am very tired... so I was stunned whan I saw the same arguments in their talk which were diflected by us earlier, so it is no use to continue disscussion if one of the sides do not have enough new arguments and use old one's. It is ludicrous.
Do not know how it sounds in english correctly but I try to rephrase it - they are not aware what they are doing. Let them go and stay away of them because it will be benefit to you. God bless you.
Intolerance is in highest level so I have no powers to overcome their mides hence I quit. :(
Thanks Staci for your advice. I know what you are saying would alleviate all the trouble. Yet I'm certain that the Mods/Admins are not in favor of wanting a special forum for me as it would be unfair that I get my own little kingdom.
For me it is a small matter of principle now. I still am not sure if they want me to cease from any topic that I would particularly like to discuss. I havent been given a clear cut yes or no to the matter and am trying to work it out in reasonable fashion with all those involved including the ones who may disagree with my postings.
I disagree with a lot of stuff and find that it isnt only my topics that gets heated and confrontational. When they can explain this to me with my unwaivered satisfaction and or straight just tell me to stop, then we'll see what action I take next.
I'd hate for them to do this. Say if I do continue to post my thoughts and ideas??? I really dont mind if they close my threads down. Sadly that would prevent others from sharing their ideas/disagreements. Now if they erase my postings all together, than that is a bit more serious and unfortunately my time here will end.
You know I was taught to take and give as much. I can handle things I dont like in this forum and cant fathom why some cant or wont do the same. I'm able to ignore so many threads by just not going into them and reading it and am abit disappointed that some see it differently and not give me the same consideration. I'm up for the challenge and will most definitely come to a reckoning on this matter. Hopefully they at least meet me half way on this.
Let's close this thread :)
You won't like the beginning of this post but I need to let it out! If you want irritated, you'll get irritated! Who's bitching and moaning about something now? Who's keeping a damned score card so real or imagined offenses can be thrown out a year and more after some offense is taken? You know what? If you think it's so easy to run a forum consisting of members in countries spanning the globe who carry opinions as widely varied as we see even in this little forum, then please, step right up and pay for the domain and the hosting! :mad: I honestly cannot believe you'd bring up the matter of some topic from 2001 NOT being closed, but FYI it was around that time that we did decide on the no politics stance.
Clarification: We have been allowing political talk in Flamers. That forum is very loosely moderated for the purpose of giving people a place to vent or to rant. However, if someone either raises an objection to something being said (I don't recall receiving complaints about anything in Flamers) OR if a mod or an admin thinks "gee this has the potential to really tear this place apart and bring about alot of animosity" then yes, stuff gets closed. You want to call us to task on decisions like that? Then I'd like to ask you one favor--please do so with out coming off all high and mighty and self-righteous. At least speaking for myself, I do respond alot better to a polite approach rather than the soapbox approach. Members Lounge was brought about b/c people ASKED for a place to get to know each other away from soccer.
I would never ask you to leave, Kui, so enough of the eye rolling. What I would ask, since you've been here nearly as long as I have, is that you at least try to understand what it's like from this side of the desk, which is where I've been essentially since the very beginning. I know why these forums were created and I still adhere to the philosophy--a place where al are welcome to post and none will feel attacked or uncomfortable. This is a soccer forum where the members have become a tight-knit communitythat's not unlike a family and I feel like a parent. If even one person complains I feel like I'm responsible, so yes, you're complaining is putting me between a rock and a hard place. I've been thru total hell for this place a few times, and I don't happen to enjoy the added stress and tension, and I don't happen to like seeing members of my family being put on the spot b/c of discussions that might be happening. If you don't like the way I do things, or the way all of us mods and admins are doing things, then OK, let's start a discussion about it.
So I'll open the discussion: does MM need a political forum? My opinion is no, b/c we're so lenient in Flamers.
To be honest I am not sure what to post here. About the thread closed down and other issues you guys keep mentioning.. I can guarantee you 100% things WILL eventually spill outside a given thread the more a thread is allowed to go on (I have seen it on numerous forums and on MM in the past.) and as an admin I have and will have top do my best to prevent that. Now if the VE thread is a good example of that is not the point because it could have become a good example if it wasn't already.
Want an example of an attitude remaining even long after an incident? Can you all see the reaction when a Fenerbahce fan signs up here? how many of you automatically assume he is gonna flood? and thats not even political...my point is... disagreements or attitudes towards another remain as a result of an earlier thread (especially if allowed to linger by not closing before it gets worse)
Yes we want it would be re-opened NOW. And I do not want to be an advocate of forum of politics because I am sick of your intolerance and unilateral point of view, so I quit.
The topic will be re-opened. Thank you for your kind words and your own tolerance. There's no need for you to quit.
Wait a bit and take it easy Debs. I think you folks are taking me way out of context. I'm asking for consistency and I am not doing it standing from a soap box. You're not the only one frustrated as I am too. I'm asking for answers.
Am I able to continue disussing what ever I want to in the Flamers Paradise? Yes??? No???
People are going to disagree with lots of things here besides my own ideas. I'm not asking for a a special forum nor have I ever done this.
And no I didnt say your job is easy either. Why can people not simply ignore my posts if they are not interested in this??? You guys are moderators and I'm asking you for moderation... balance, and some fairness. If you guys are basing it on the account of other people's complaints, if it were me (and it is) I'd stay away from a particular topic Debs. Are we not understanding each other on this???
Your response in Kind. Kindly now Debs.
the funny thing is, people are losing their tempers on an argument about TALKING about politics. Imagine if we actually start talking about politics in here?
btw, does it mean if you threaten to leave with an ultimatum, you will get your way? hmm..
I WANT THIS PLACE TO BE CALLED NADIRMANIA or I QUIT!!! (rae you big baby lol)
Kui, discuss whatever you want to in Flamers, OK? I'm discussing with my admins and mods. I keep answering and you keep asking for an answer.
the funny thing is, people are losing their tempers on an argument about TALKING about politics. Imagine if we actually start talking about politics in here?
btw, does it mean if you threaten to leave with an ultimatum, you will get your way? hmm..
I WANT THIS PLACE TO BE CALLED NADIRMANIA or I QUIT!!! (rae you big baby lol)
Nadir. Again I aprreciate your opinion i this matter. And no I'm not making any ultimatums whatsoever. I'm asking for an answer so that i can make my decision fro there.
Kui, discuss whatever you want to in Flamers, OK? I'm discussing with my admins and mods. I keep answering and you keep asking for an answer.
Thank You Debs. This is all I needed to know.
I've been asking you guys this and the response was coming from members and not you or rezag. I understand you're busy and all and am glad that you folks have responded to me in the earliest possible manner.
I'm just asking for people to show some consideration that's all. You'd be surprised that there are many who dont like a bunch of topics but give it the consideration of keeping it open. I've been getting pm from those telling me to move forward with what I'm saying as well who are disagreeing with me.
I hope that this continues to be an open forum. Anything short of it will not make it so.
Thanks again Debs. PM me if you wanna chew my a$$ out but I think we need not come to argue as I was only trying to ask you for some moderation. IMO.
Hmmm.... don't know what to think of people doing the PM thing and not having the guts to say things in public. We need opinions and I'm not some scary monster a la Lost....
Hmmm.... don't know what to think of people doing the PM thing and not having the guts to say things in public. We need opinions and I'm not some scary monster a la Lost....
Again you can tell me whatever you want with no hard feelings or bitter pill to swallow.
. You'd be surprised that there are many who dont like a bunch of topics but give it the consideration of keeping it open. I've been getting pm from those telling me to move forward with what I'm saying as well who are disagreeing with me.
I hope that this continues to be an open forum. Anything short of it will not make it so.
.
Kui, I think this had been a thread of misunderstandings, and it seems to have come to a point of agreement on some level. Although the issue caused a lot of tension and emotion, I realize that you were pressing on for the principle. There are threads here that even I find very offsive, but the thought of complaining about it had never even crossed my mind. I know that people have different passions and interests and should be allowed to express that in a place that they enjoy and feel comfortable in. Once I had realized what they were about I simply did not go back. LIVE AND LET LIVE ! Debs put is wonderfully by stating that this is like a family. It is, but even families will disagree at some point and should be allowed to discuss it. I hope that you have found some conclusion in all of this. Thanks again for your tenancity on this issue.
Kui, I think this had been a thread of misunderstandings, and it seems to have come to a point of agreement on some level. Although the issue caused a lot of tension and emotion, I realize that you were pressing on for the principle. There are threads here that even I find very offsive, but the thought of complaining about it had never even crossed my mind. I know that people have different passions and interests and should be allowed to express that in a place that they enjoy and feel comfortable in. Once I had realized what they were about I simply did not go back. LIVE AND LET LIVE ! Debs put is wonderfully by stating that this is like a family. It is, but even families will disagree at some point and should be allowed to discuss it. I hope that you have found some conclusion in all of this. Thanks again for your tenancity on this issue.
I couldnt disagree with what you've said. Thanks Staci for saying this in a much better manner and tone than I could have said.
FORZA MILAN!
Christopher
09-09-2005, 12:30
okay to add a bit of humor to this situation has anyone see or heard any of the outragous comments Kanye West and Barbra Bush made? Here's a re-cap
heres the link: Watch Kanye West (http://www.crapville.com/video_holder.asp?ID=527)
Here is what Barb had to say:
"What I'm hearing which is sort of scary is that they all want to stay in Texas. Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway so this (chuckle) – this is working very well for them." –Former First Lady Barbara Bush, on the Hurricane flood evacuees in the Houston Astrodome, Sept. 5, 2005
here's the link (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.presidents.ap/)
Now I am not trying to make light of the situation in Gulf Coast, if I had the ability to go there myself and help I would . . . but I am making light of the idiots who labeled the evacuees as "refugees" and lastly at any political arguement on this here message board, argue about it later, act now, and try to gain some sort of understanding as to what the people down there are going through.
the funny thing is, people are losing their tempers on an argument about TALKING about politics. Imagine if we actually start talking about politics in here?
btw, does it mean if you threaten to leave with an ultimatum, you will get your way? hmm..
I WANT THIS PLACE TO BE CALLED NADIRMANIA or I QUIT!!! (rae you big baby lol)I said I quit talking and convincing you all to open a special subforum, because you guys do not accept any other opinion except your own. Pity, bud that's true. Especially you, Nadir. I am not very happy to be called a big baby nor reading your dissocial comments. Though I stayed cool, as you can see, all the time and never broke up and posted anything inappropriate and offencive. I prooved I can restrain. I do not used to taunt anyone to do something bad and inproper. However I can not say the same about you :(
okay to add a bit of humor to this situation has anyone see or heard any of the outragous comments Kanye West and Barbra Bush made? Here's a re-cap
heres the link: Watch Kanye West (http://www.crapville.com/video_holder.asp?ID=527)
Here is what Barb had to say:
"What I'm hearing which is sort of scary is that they all want to stay in Texas. Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway so this (chuckle) – this is working very well for them." –Former First Lady Barbara Bush, on the Hurricane flood evacuees in the Houston Astrodome, Sept. 5, 2005
here's the link (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.presidents.ap/)
Now I am not trying to make light of the situation in Gulf Coast, if I had the ability to go there myself and help I would . . . but I am making light of the idiots who labeled the evacuees as "refugees" and lastly at any political arguement on this here message board, argue about it later, act now, and try to gain some sort of understanding as to what the people down there are going through.
Hello Philly nice to have you join us. In case you might not have noticed, I have done a lot to help in the disaster relief. I've got one living here as our guest. Now that surely doesnt allow only me to talk about this hurricane as I think anyone who wants to discuss issues can do so.
Now I'm requesting that if it is about issues regarding the political effects about this hurricane, we should be talk about it in the flamers section as I had promised Debs that I would keep it there. Thanks again Philly.
Yeah, the topic is re-opened so please, go at it! :funpc:
I think alot of people wish tyey could go into the area and help, but this problem will last a long time, so there should be alot of opportunities. Again yesterday, I think it was on CNN, they made the plea for money, b/c material goods they say right now they have huge stockpiles of. I made a large donation to the collection our kids were taking up and my roomie and I are going to do Backpacks of Love, and yesterday I made a generous donation to the ASPCA Disaster Relief fund. I had to, I saw an image on TV yesterday morning that just tore me apart, animal lover that I am.
Question, and feel free to take this one to the topic in Flamers....do youfeel the celebrity concerts we're seeing help to raise any more funds than the simple and direct pleas that come with the news reports?
I said I quit talking and convincing you all to open a special subforum, because you guys do not accept any other opinion except your own. Pity, bud that's true. Especially you, Nadir. I am not very happy to be called a big baby nor reading your dissocial comments. Though I stayed cool, as you can see, all the time and never broke up and posted anything inappropriate and offencive. I prooved I can restrain. I do not used to taunt anyone to do something bad and inproper. However I can not say the same about you :(
YOU BIG BABY lol :)
it was all in jest. notice the LOL at the end ... don't take it so personal. :delol:
sorry if i offended anyone. of course i didn't mean to taunt you in anything more than in a friendly MM community way :)
just remember , what unites us is the fact that inter lost and milan won today lol
Yeah, the topic is re-opened so please, go at it! :funpc:
I think alot of people wish tyey could go into the area and help, but this problem will last a long time, so there should be alot of opportunities. Again yesterday, I think it was on CNN, they made the plea for money, b/c material goods they say right now they have huge stockpiles of. I made a large donation to the collection our kids were taking up and my roomie and I are going to do Backpacks of Love, and yesterday I made a generous donation to the ASPCA Disaster Relief fund. I had to, I saw an image on TV yesterday morning that just tore me apart, animal lover that I am.
Question, and feel free to take this one to the topic in Flamers....do youfeel the celebrity concerts we're seeing help to raise any more funds than the simple and direct pleas that come with the news reports?
Good job Debs! You know how I feel about your mentoring these kids of yours :pp20: .
Well for me I got my old friend Donald all settled in here on Hawaii. He's got his medication from the pharmacy and by the look of things the trauma has disappeared. I told him not to worry about a thing. Last night I invited him and my parents along with Grand Mammy to dinner. He's still a bit uncomfortable thinking us going out of our waty to help him. So I stuck him with grand mama to keep him company. Old people are so funny... in a good way of course. I can see how they cope with this. Afterall they lived through the "Great Depression", lost family in WWII and maybe even children and grandchildren in other conflicts and still they have a bright outlook on life. Let me tell ya, these people are tough. Sadly it is a waning generation.
Earlier this week I attended a welcoming dinner for about 2 dozen displaced Tulane University students. A group I'm affiliated with were able to get them enrolled into the University of Hawaii campus so that they can finish their academic year here. Some were able to get on-campus housing and we were able to get off-camous accomadations for the others as well.
I'll try and take up that offer you put on the table Debs regarding the methods and efforts to raise monies in the Flamers section. I'm sure it will be interesting to hear what people will have to say. We'll or maybe I will try to keep it civil.
I am a Katrina victim. Glad to be back to MM, even though right now I have very limited access to Internet as I am still in the shelter.
I am a Katrina victim. Glad to be back to MM, even though right now I have very limited access to Internet as I am still in the shelter.
Where ya at right now??? You in Texas?? Good that you made it out.
I am right now in Florida. But I don't think I will be visiting MM as often as before. People here are waiting to file for FEMA relief, and there are only a few computers down here.
hey xudong, if you need anything, come back to this thread or PM me and let me/us know. i am sure we at MM will do our best to help you out in anyway we can.
Dr Milano
11-09-2005, 15:38
I am a Katrina victim. Glad to be back to MM, even though right now I have very limited access to Internet as I am still in the shelter.
ur joking u werent a victim by god ur lucky
Angel_Cic
11-09-2005, 19:08
Xudong...stay strong! we're here for you if you need anything. please don't be shy :) take care!!!
Hey Xudong, glad you ok. As others have posted here, if you need any kind of help let me/us know.
Christopher
11-09-2005, 23:20
Hello Philly nice to have you join us. In case you might not have noticed, I have done a lot to help in the disaster relief. I've got one living here as our guest. Now that surely doesnt allow only me to talk about this hurricane as I think anyone who wants to discuss issues can do so.
Now I'm requesting that if it is about issues regarding the political effects about this hurricane, we should be talk about it in the flamers section as I had promised Debs that I would keep it there. Thanks again Philly.
I check in every day! I was in no way trying to be political, I was trying to divert any talk of politic's while still trying to stay on topic as this situation as unfortunate as it is has brought out some of the dumbest statements people could ever make and in Mike Mysers situation the greatest looks of bewilderment (if you havent seen it check the Kanye West Link). Personally as I said this situation has no room for political banter at this moment. I too have done what I can to help in my own way, and I only hope that they can rebuild New Orleans and all sorrounding area's not just because it is what should happen but because I love cajun cooking, and I want to got Mardi Gras sometime to see some boobs. :tongue1:
ACMILAN1983
12-09-2005, 07:00
Xudong, glad to see your safe. I hope that you didn't lose too much, but above all I guess safety was the biggest issue :)
I check in every day! I was in no way trying to be political, I was trying to divert any talk of politic's while still trying to stay on topic as this situation as unfortunate as it is has brought out some of the dumbest statements people could ever make and in Mike Mysers situation the greatest looks of bewilderment (if you havent seen it check the Kanye West Link). Personally as I said this situation has no room for political banter at this moment. I too have done what I can to help in my own way, and I only hope that they can rebuild New Orleans and all sorrounding area's not just because it is what should happen but because I love cajun cooking, and I want to got Mardi Gras sometime to see some boobs. :tongue1:
I know you werent trying to be political. As a matter of fact your post was a bit fair by showing kind of stupidy on both sides. Of course the media always sensasionalizes things way over board. I have heard claims that there were no "rapes" and murders going on as it had been told in the Media. I'm certain that it did happen, but the way they made it sound was as if it was happening all over the darn city! This is very irresponsible journalism.
Christopher
12-09-2005, 08:48
I know you werent trying to be political. As a matter of fact your post was a bit fair by showing kind of stupidy on both sides. Of course the media always sensasionalizes things way over board. I have heard claims that there were no "rapes" and murders going on as it had been told in the Media. I'm certain that it did happen, but the way they made it sound was as if it was happening all over the darn city! This is very irresponsible journalism.
yeah you just need to listen to what Wolf Blitzer said about the evacuee's in the Astrodome to realize that certain members of the media have made a disgrace of the situation as well, very sad.
I did lose almost everything, :depress: so, I do need everything. :D :u31:
Nah, I will be fine.... Thanks for your warmth. Let's cheer for Milan. If we can keep winning, I will be all alright. :cool:
I did lose almost everything, :depress: so, I do need everything. :D :u31:
Trust me, so many people--just regular citizens--are scrambling to donate as much money as we can, we're donating clothing and supplies, and in some cases its the regular citizens who are taking the supplies into the region!
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/currentevents/a/katrinaquotes.htm
25 Mind-Numbingly Stupid Quotes About Hurricane Katrina And Its Aftermath
1) "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." –President Bush, on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina
read on (each quote has a source)
number 2 is even worse.
Xudong, glad to see your safe. I checked out on a map and the area around my house in New Olreans got 6 feet of water, so I am assuming a whole lot of my stuff is gone, so I know how feel.
Xudong, glad to see your safe. I checked out on a map and the area around my house in New Olreans got 6 feet of water, so I am assuming a whole lot of my stuff is gone, so I know how feel.
My house was surrounded by 7 feet of water, and 2 feet of them went inside. ;) Our house was safe during the storm, but couldn't make it after the levee broke. I was staring at the water rising little by little but couldn't do anything. Damn, that was some awful feeling. :(
Almost all my stuff was gone, including all my AC Milan collections. :( :( :( I assume yours too, as it is not just a problem of water soaking your belongings. Everything in the room will get moldy and filthy. Feel free to consider all your stuff gone. :skull:
I just arrived at Chicago last night, at least now I can be on MM more. :5ok:
FORZA MILAN :D
Sandra...you get reputation points for your last post...well said :)
grazie amore... hihih :D
Christopher
19-09-2005, 15:26
So apparently about 1,000 or so residents from New Orleans have come to the Philadelphia are . . . it is unforunate that they have had to do so but the city was prepared to take in more then that, apparently from what our newspappers have written some people who moved up here are planning on opening restuarants of the cajun variety which is awesome I LOVE cajun food and I plan to frequent these places open their opening just unfortunate they have had to do it under these circumstances . . . . they are letting people back into certain parts of the city (New Orleans) as of today.
I heard last week that there were at least 300 evacuees in Erie County and that the City of Erie has housing for 120 families available right now.
I work in a school founded and run by the Sisters of Mercy, and there is a Mercy school in Bay St. Louis. The headmaster had someone go in and take photos of the destruction and they were passed around to us on our email. I know other schools, private and public, are in the same boat--almost total destruction. Seeing another Mercy school destroyed, that really hit us all where we live. I know the offer has been made to house any of the Sisters at our Motherhouse and we are also looking into taking in students who could also be housed there.
ps--philly chris, I'm with you, I'd love to see a couple Cajun restaurants open here in Erie!
Ooooooo yeeeaaaahhh! I 'lil alligata snappin turtle mixen wit a etouffe. O perhaps a crawdadee gumboh down at Thebideaux's. And better yet a moulin gumbo with mayonaya por'chop sandwit. Pooh some a dat Mchilhenny tabahhsca juice and down it all wit a goo ole white lightin! Ooooohhhh the south shall rise again.
Jambalaya (http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/dustinhunt-04.m3u)
Who da King Fish???!!!
Well let's hope senorRITA doesnt smash into N'AWlins again. I still cant believe the stubborn stupidy of some insisting to stay in the area. Of course blame the govt when it all goes bad for them huh???
Hmmmm, you know what, Kui, you have a point. It's like people who live on flood plains. FLOOD plains...you know you're in an area that is going to FLOOD. N.O. is below sea level, they live among leevees with water way above them. But people insist on living in these areas for some reason, don't they? Human nature or what? And is there any place that is actually risk-free??
Christopher
20-09-2005, 11:54
it is quite a conundrum as some people get attached to their homes as they view it as the only thing they own and have in their life, Look at what happened when Mt. St. Helens (that's in Washington right) blew up people had the oppourtunity to leave their cabins, but some didn't and perished in the ashen explosion. It remains to be answered as to why people didn't leave New Orleans originally, I think there is a lot of answers and each are problably valid in some way.
Kui- you planning on starting a resturant because that menu sounded damn good!
New Orleans is flooding again....and Rita is down to a category 3 but Texas is going to get hit. Was watching a news report a few days ago that said that anything that's developing off the western coast of Africa is heading right across the ocean this year.
new orleans has flooded again
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.