View Full Version : Ramblings of a discontented Rossonero.
Seaninho
17-09-2005, 09:41
why is it that everytime we (Milan) sign the "next big thing" he ends up being a dud?
And Why is it that our youth system which for so long was as good as any in the world now seems to be merely a school for avrage players to use a stop over on thier road to mediocraty?
why haven't players like Donati, Donadel, Boreiollo and Pozzi "made it"?
what is happening to our youth set-up?
Besides Ambro Abbiati who has out own youth system produced in the last few years? No body, what went wrong?
why is it that everytime we (Milan) sign the "next big thing" he ends up being a dud?
And Why is it that our youth system which for so long was as good as any in the world now seems to be merely a school for avrage players to use a stop over on thier road to mediocraty?
why haven't players like Donati, donaldi, Boreiollo and Pozzi "made it"?
what is happening to our youth set-up?
Besides Ambro Abbiati who has out own youth system produced in the last few years? No body, what went wrong?
I have been saying this on this forum for years now. I agree we have yet to find a charm within our own system. The last big thing has been IMO Maldini. Since then we havent really had a potential legend. I think it is far economically prudent to mentor the youth into our first team than to spend 35 Million Euros on a player. If the subject is sticking to Gilardino, I'm willing to give him a few more games before my patience runs out. I never felt good about his transfer here at that price. No sense buying what is essentially a canoe at a speedboat price. Know what I mean??? I'd rather we build and mould our own legends than to go at it the calciomercato way. Maybe our scouts are only looking for first team players and not paying closer attention to really young talents between the age of 8 and 9 yrs old??? Maybe the coaching isnt up to par??? Maybe and sadly true is that the game of football has changed so much that the game demands quick action to buy players rather than to risk long term investment of youth training.
why is it that everytime we (Milan) sign the "next big thing" he ends up being a dud?
And Why is it that our youth system which for so long was as good as any in the world now seems to be merely a school for avrage players to use a stop over on thier road to mediocraty?
why haven't players like Donati, Donadel, Boreiollo and Pozzi "made it"?
er, since when has our youth system good as any in the world? it never has been. manchester united, barcelona and ajax have a history of churning out excellent talent from their youth system (in europe) and in south america, almost all the teams are exclusively built FROM their youth teams. Milan has never had a history of this.
Only Ambrosini, Maldini and Abbiati, one could say have truley made it large in a big team. But the others you mentioned are definitely not flops.
And as for Gila, needs more time - relax :)
Seaninho
17-09-2005, 10:45
They are not flops in as players but as investments of milan they are flops, espically Pozzi who promissed so much but will deliver so little.
Boriello is the same.
none of them will ever been good enough to be rossoneri.
are you sure? milan makes/made money out of these guys. as far as milan is concerned, they weren't failures as investments. however, Milan has almost never been a team to bring up young players into the main squad very often because the pressure to deliver trophies is so high at the club, that only established superstar talent, or potential superstar talent, can ever hope to play in the first team regularly. This is where the transfer market comes to play and Milan bring in players like Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa and Inzaghi (who have all delivered). Imagine trying to hone a player from the youth ranks to the level of Rui Costa! It's almost impossible.
Pozzi is at Empoli now. Wait a while and when given the chance, Im sure he wont dissappoint. Remember, this dude scored on his debut in a Milan shirt againts Juventus :D
Billy_Montreal
17-09-2005, 12:14
why is it that everytime we (Milan) sign the "next big thing" he ends up being a dud?
And Why is it that our youth system which for so long was as good as any in the world now seems to be merely a school for avrage players to use a stop over on thier road to mediocraty?
why haven't players like Donati, Donadel, Boreiollo and Pozzi "made it"?
what is happening to our youth set-up?
Besides Ambro Abbiati who has out own youth system produced in the last few years? No body, what went wrong?
I wouldn't call Gilardino a DUD just yet. After what 3 games?? Ever look back at Nesta, Crespo and Inzaghi's first games with us??
In addition, what do you call Pirlo, Gattuso, Shevchenko and Kaka..I think teams would DIE to have "duds" like that
I wouldn't call Gilardino a DUD just yet. After what 3 games?? Ever look back at Nesta, Crespo and Inzaghi's first games with us??
In addition, what do you call Pirlo, Gattuso, Shevchenko and Kaka..I think teams would DIE to have "duds" like that
and you forgot Van Basten who took a whole season to light up the San Siro.
Seaninho
17-09-2005, 13:19
First of all the players I named were all bought as youths with potential.
The players you listed were all players whom are proven entities.
why is it that everytime we (Milan) sign the "next big thing" he ends up being a dud?
i think he was talking about what you said here. pirlo, sheva and kaka were not duds :)
Dr Milano
17-09-2005, 13:42
i think he was talking about what you said here. pirlo, sheva and kaka were not duds :)yeah yeah :5ok: put it that way infact some of them could be duds and some werent simple as
And haven't we all been discontented at some point, or is it more a matter of being disillusioned. We always look good on paper, our transfers always look goood and then something happens. Redondo...Rivaldo...those 2 pop into my head as being the biggest disapointments in MY books. What happens? Lots of things, I guess, lots of factors come into play. Players come to us injured, players come in unable to adapt to the Milan system (such as it is), some simply demand too much and just don't fit in, the old chemistry thing. And then there's always the simple fact that just b/c a player is considered a "super star" by fans, it doesn't mean that the player is what the team needs, it doesn't mean that he'll fit in or make us any better.
Billy_Montreal
17-09-2005, 22:21
and you forgot Van Basten who took a whole season to light up the San Siro.
List goes on...however I figured a few quick 'hits' first :D
Billy_Montreal
17-09-2005, 22:22
First of all the players I named were all bought as youths with potential.
The players you listed were all players whom are proven entities.
Your list was split in two: PLAYERS WE SIGNED and (you added the word AND) players from the youth system....
So what exactly do you mean?? Players why promoted from the youth system..we use two scenario's then??
Billy_Montreal
17-09-2005, 22:24
First of all the players I named were all bought as youths with potential.
The players you listed were all players whom are proven entities.
More over, no one was chasing Sheva but Milan put a lot of money down on him.
Juve passed on Kaka and many predicted he was too young and 'Brazilian' for SErie A.
Inter claimed Pirlo was useless and give him away for UMIT DAYALA. Far from proven entities.
we dont invest in youth because it is too risky...
people here go crazy if a star like gattuso, or seedorf plays bad... imagine the case if a youth messed up... we cant afford the risk... we have to play every game with the best formation possible and there arent any easy games anymore
however, the players we have arent half as good as the ones that ajax, parma, arsenal, manure, or barca find/invest in ... if messi was on our bench, id bet hed be given alot of starts with the 1st squad!
Inter claimed Pirlo was useless and give him away for UMIT DAYALA. Far from proven entities.
Nope. Inter gave us Umit Davala and we gave them Dario Simic.
Andrea Pirlo was signed for about €20m or so.
Billy_Montreal
18-09-2005, 22:11
']Nope. Inter gave us Umit Davala and we gave them Dario Simic.
Andrea Pirlo was signed for about €20m or so.
Right on the first one..my bad. Are you sure Pirlo was purchased for 20 million...I thought the fee was much lower than that. Almost laughable.
']Nope. Inter gave us Umit Davala and we gave them Dario Simic.
Andrea Pirlo was signed for about €20m or so.
Pirlo was signed for 10M€, I am sure about that one.
Oh and I am sure you meant the other way around in the first part :D
we dont invest in youth because it is too risky...
people here go crazy if a star like gattuso, or seedorf plays bad... imagine the case if a youth messed up... we cant afford the risk...
Ideally the team should be mostly our vets AND some of the promising youth or upcoming players mixed in. At some point we need to get a grip on who in the youth team is worth investing in and is worth taking a chance on. It was done at some point, or we'd never have seen Maldini.....
We have produced Maldini, Costacurta, Albertini, Ambrosini, Abbiati, Cudicini and Oddo to name just a few. All we need is a coach who is brave enough to give the youngsters a chance. Ancelotti isn't brave enough to do that, van Basten is.
This is the main problem I see in Milan. I am very upset to see our team has no young prospect coming form our reserves. It hurts so bad to me. Why United, Real etc. can afford to spend money on growing their own guys, and we can't. Are Milan too weak finacaly? Do you think that italian fans enjoy the team which is full of foreigners or stars from other clubs? I reckn they would be much happier to see their own local guys playing for their beloved side. And for who are plaing Milan? For money, for Berlusconi, for Galliani, for TV companies or for tifosi? For those who devote all life to Milan and has nothing to do without it. I consolidate with these guys, and sustain their wish to have more young italians in our squad. I can tell you a simple example. As I am lithuanian, I am big basketball fan. I have a team, Zalgiris, which I love most. I know many fans of it. I am know even the most secret wishes of them. I know all thoughts and views of local fans. And i can say that they prefer local players above all. They cheers for them the most. They want that their team would reperesent their/my country. They do not like to see 7 maercans and 5 serbs playing for their squad. Football is not the exception. All fans want to see their compatriots playing for their side. Especially local guys, who were born and grown up in the same place where they had. It is natural. So that's why I do coincide with these who do not want to buy foreigners. Or at least to buy them in reasonable amouts 4 or 6. No more. We have to take up with youth programmes. It is our essential aim.
We have produced Maldini, Costacurta, Albertini, Ambrosini, Abbiati, Cudicini and Oddo to name just a few. All we need is a coach who is brave enough to give the youngsters a chance. Ancelotti isn't brave enough to do that, van Basten is.
Exactly! It can be done and it can be done very effectively. It's been proven in the past, and I think it's time to start such a game plan again!
Based on the comment by Mehdi, I dare to say that Marco Van Basten may be offered a job as Milan c.t. after the WC'06.
How many times have we seen that the more a c.t. is given a "vote of confidence" from the team upper management, the the faster he gets fired from the job. Carletto has given us so much we wouldn't be fired during the season. But after Marco takes his national team to Germany '06, he would be the perfect guy for a new stage at Milan. One where new players from the primavera can see more minutes on the pitch.
Sorry if I went off topic.
I am convinced van Basten will be our next coach. If we can't get him in October, after the WCQ, I expect someone like Donadoni will arrive for the rest of the season.
Ideally the team should be mostly our vets AND some of the promising youth or upcoming players mixed in. At some point we need to get a grip on who in the youth team is worth investing in and is worth taking a chance on. It was done at some point, or we'd never have seen Maldini.....
true.... and im not against giving these kids a chance... but just remind me... when did maldini start playing for milan?! ... wasnt it back in 85' i think?.... im not sure and forgive me if im wrong but isnt that when we were recovering from the financial difficulties?! nd when we were in serieB?? ... we didnt have enough money to buy stars the way we do now... and it its not like we had better solutions than to try out youngsters
i may be wrong with the dates though
Pirlo was signed for 10M€, I am sure about that one.
I am pretty sure myself, it was £12m. Inzaghi was £17m (overall transfer value was £24m) and Rui Costa £28m.
I remember really, really well.
']I am pretty sure myself, it was £12m. Inzaghi was £17m (overall transfer value was £24m) and Rui Costa £28m.
I remember really, really well.
The figure on the acmilan.com was 10M€.
Il capitano
20-09-2005, 11:57
We have produced Maldini, Costacurta, Albertini, Ambrosini, Abbiati, Cudicini and Oddo to name just a few. All we need is a coach who is brave enough to give the youngsters a chance. Ancelotti isn't brave enough to do that, van Basten is.
Baresi :5schal:
Baresi :5schal:
What about him? He's not cut out for coaching, look at his time at Fulham. van Basten has already shown in his time in charge of the Dutch national team that he picks his OWN team, he's dropped Davids, Seedorf and van Bommel amongst others and called-up many players from different teams. He doesn't care who he upsets or how much controversy he creates. That is the type of coach we need.
Giovanni
20-09-2005, 13:39
More over, no one was chasing Sheva but Milan put a lot of money down on him.
Juve passed on Kaka and many predicted he was too young and 'Brazilian' for SErie A.
Inter claimed Pirlo was useless and give him away for UMIT DAYALA. Far from proven entities.
what a lawyer you are! :D
:rone: :guw:
Giovanni
20-09-2005, 13:43
Pirlo's 10 millions € in those years of foolish market prices were nothing compared to players like Jose Mari or Javi Moreno who costed us more than 20, or Comandini who costed us a fortune.
Gilardino may have costed us a lot but I'M SURE he will be a Milan legend. The guy has too many qualities, he will deliver soon, who is dubious about him maybe hasn't seen many Parma games over the last 2 seasons.
Warro Bantan
20-09-2005, 13:53
Good thread, good posts, and here now is mine:
Based on the current approaches to sucess by big clubs, we now have some models to examine:
The Galactico model, the Abramovitch model, the Berlu model A and B, the Agnelli model, and the Villareal model.
Lets take them one by one:
Galactico model:
Real Madrid, through Peres, have assembled, in a few years, an extremely talented squad, that on paper, should sweep all before it, yet, have won no more than Milan for example, since the galactico policy was introduced...correct me if I am wrong, but one UCL title, and one Spanish league trophy has been followed by seasons with no silverware to speak of.
The resulting merry-go-round with coaches hasnt helped either, and combined with the lack of depth on the bench, ie in understudies for los galacticos, have proved their undoing, in addition to lack of or poor investment in the defensive aspect of the game.
Outcome: Not sustainable, no guarantee of results, after huge investment.
Abramovitch model:
Spend big, buy the best talent, regardless of the cost, invest in the best coach available, the best scouts, the best football director money can buy, and sit back and watch the trophies roll in.
Actually, Chelsea has dominated the EPL, with a record breaking point tally last term, and are unbeaten so far this term, with a 6 point lead over their nearest rivals, and looking like going all the way again. Any bets against Chelsea winning the EPL title again this year?...Anyone...? Didnt think so.
In the UCL however, the wheels fell off the cart vs Liverpool, where a combination of luck and tactical prowess enabled Rafa´s men to triumph. Still, they remain the team to beat this term. A shaky start can be attributed more to them underestimating their opponents, than anything else, and with the "special one" as their coach, dont look for a repeat of last UCLs failings.
Outcome: Really, insofar as the EPL is concerned, a GREAT, unqualified success, though it remains to be seen how they will fare on the European front.
The Berlu model A: Unqualified success, winning both in Europe and Italy, and definately worked: Method: Bring in some star talent, combine with the homegrown players, mix, shake, add an excellent coach, and viola!: Win trophies! Short term soloution however, but if unsustained, as was the case, a period of decline was sure, and surely did, result.
The Berlu Model B: Prudent purchases, astute transfers, low spending, using the core of talent, to re-build a team around. Add a good coach, and stir vigorously. Result: It worked, with 2 major trophies in 3 seasons, but a startling end to the 3rd, with all to play for, it all went wrong...why..the autopsy is still in progress. My thoughts: Not enough reinforcements in the defense in the pre season prior to the insanity in Istanbul...ditto for this past silly season.
Agnelli model:
Buy the refs, buy the linesmen, and dont worry about Europe, UEFA reps are notoriously difficult to bribe and get away with.:D..ok but seriously...Make prudent purchases, get a good coach, spend wisely, and maintain a solid core of defenders and midfielders, and aquire good forwards.
Results: Serie A title after Serie A title..no real success in Europe, but if getting to the quarter finals makes millions of euro...then why worry?
The Villareal model: Invest scant resources in youth, invest scant resources in South American talent, (that comes at an affordable price) get lucky with a superstar (Riquelme) and presto: European football, from a perennial relegation candidate. Sustainable? Time will tell, but of all the models I have referred to here, it seems the best one.
Actually, a combination of the best elements of the above should result in a "winning 11" and not the video game either.
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