View Full Version : Berlusconi and Di Canio....
im surprised no one has mentioned this but is there no one else who finds berlus` comments on defending di canios fascit salute disgusting?!
http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/berlusconi_defends_di_canio_news_72582.html
ok so hes not the most liberal of politicians however di canios salute has drawn condemnation from all over the world and berlusconi siding with di canio makes ac milan look bad....
what do you lot think?
zlatanov
27-12-2005, 14:45
I think you are way over the top with your reaction to Silvio's words. His only fault here is that he is just trying to calm things down and I say "fault" for I personally don't think this is the way to deal with people like Di Canio but that doesn't mean that I am right for another way to deal with racists and fascists is to just ignore them rather then make their acts the top story of the evening news. So, in that sense Silvio might have a point by trying to downplay all that noise around Di Canio.
But to say that Silvio is "defending" and even "siding" with him by calling him a "good lad, though being an exhibitionist", that's pure overreaction on your side. And mind you who first suggested that Silvio "leapt to the player's defence" - a story-seeking, blood-thirsty journalist-wanna-be, who would sell his mother for getting the top story of the day.
Next time, try not to fall into these cheap traps and judge people too quickly based on a couple of words.
One other thing to spend time thinking on - If you still think that Silvio is siding with a fascist, do you believe that a public figure like Berlusconi would risk creating an international scandal by publically defending an idiot like Di Canio? Simple answer - no, 'cause he never meant to defend or side with him. He was probably just a bit too careless to comment on sensitive matter like this for, whatever Silvio said, journalists like this pal here would twist it in every possible way just to make him look bad.
Berlusconi is a human being. Di Canio is also. You are the same, I guess. They have their own opinion. You have your own. Do they blame you that you have distict atitude to them?
By the way, that fascist salute firsta was used my ancient romans ;)
I have to say that I'm not surprised by Berlusconi's supposed support of Di Canio and his reactions. As zlatanov and rae have said, they have the right to their opinions, but I find both of them (Di Canio and Berlusconi) unsavoury, to say the least, in their political opinions. As much as I am thankful for what Berlusconi has done for Milan, I can't stand the man personally and it is hardly surprising that the right-wing politicians in Italy are coming out in support of Di Canio - there have already been suggestions that Di Canio will himself be a right-wing politician when he has finished playing football, although this may just be speculation.
As for suggesting that MATNAT has fallen for cheap tricks I think you're wrong zlatanov. I agree that journalists will always try to twist people's words, but in this case Berlusconi has clearly stated that 'his salute didn't have any significance'. That is not the type of thing that you say if you believe that Di Canio was wrong, and if Berlusconi truely believes this statement then he is a fool. You can argue that Di Canio has the right to make this gesture, but not that it had no significance, as the public outcry throughout the footballing community has shown.
I agree with MATNAT on this one, but of course I respect your opinions zlatanov and rae.
im not basing mr arguements on solely this one statement form silvio. its no surprise that he came out for di canio considering his party is right of centre.
the fact that mussolinis grand daughter came out in support and berlusconi has done nothing to condemn this just shows how backward he is. if di canio had done that in england he`d be lynched (and rightly so)
take in all the facts and lazio are a club steeped in fascist right wing culture, silvio should not have lent any form of apologie or support for di canio what-so-ever.
u would have to be an idiot not to see what lazio really is.
they were supported by mussolini and he even built the stadium for them. the curva nord has unveiled many a banner showing anti-semitic language as well as abuse to foreign players, especially black.
even aron winter (ex-dutch international) suffered abuse during his time at lazio. even thuram before his move to juve stated that he wouldnt join such a racist team due to the chants and negative image this club has projected over the years. even dabo has come out in the past few weeks and said that enough is enough with this club.
in his last years at lazio that racist piece of ****mihajlovic became more and more vocal for his love of the curva nord especially when they unfurled a banner proclaiming their love of arkan...
lazio have a minority section of fans that are right wing fascists, di canio has used the salute before..now any idiot can see that di canios arm waving antics and the small group of fascist fans go hand in hand...
fascism..a roman salute...nazism......fact is we`re in the 21st century and we`re all educated enough to know (well the majority of us anyway) that the salute that di canio has shown is wrong, offensive and has no place in this world never mind football today.
and only the other day when in brno (i study there) at a nightclub, i was drinking with some irish friends and a czech man overheard us, proclaimed his allegiance to chelsea hooligans and stated that he was one. one of his friends came over and started doing the nazi salute...i told them i was a milan fan and they asked me who the greatest italian footballer was...i said baggio and they said no, di canio is....if di canios antics so much as excite these morons then he has to go (btw..the majority of czech people are good people)
and please dont spout to me all this freedom of speech rubbish because if it were up to the likes of di canio and his fascist lazio supporters the likes of you and me wouldnt have this freedom to talk cos our colour of skin is a different shade of white....
i hope fifa come down hard on di canio to show that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable otherwise their whole ethos against racism will be seen as a joke and its not just in italy but in spain and many other countries too.
Well said MATNAT. :clap:
I just hope that FIFA, UEFA and the Lega Calcio will take stricter action in the future against the likes of Di Canio and the Lazio Ultras. We have seen a sorry increase in racism in football recently, especially in Spain and Eastern Europe, and now an increase in Italy. Until people stand up to it, and that includes the likes of Berlusconi, racism in football will continue to be seen as acceptable by a significant minority. I'm not suggesting that it can be eradicated entirely, and people still have the right to their views, but we need to show the next generation of football fans that we do not find these actions acceptable on a football pitch.
Well, as much as I love having him as a our president, he's a right winger and has never been known to be particularly sensitive or politically correct. Dicanio on the other hand is a complete idiot.
Sorry guys, but I would like to ask you why are you so concerned when you hear something related with "fascism"... and why you are so quite when talk is about communism? :rollani: Double standarts?
The irony here is that DiCanio won a Fifa Fairplay special award a few years back, when he was playing in England...
for kicking the ball out instead of scoring a goal when the rival goalkeeper was down injured...
That shows that Di Canio is very kind man and you should not blame him because of his opinion.
No that shows that the man has no melons. If he had done his salute while playing for Westham, he wouldnt have played in England again. i love Italian football, but things like this must be cleaned up.
I guess you guys are "so tolerant" like fascists are... :rollani: Same sh!te but in other hand... sorry
are you feeling alright :v46:
You think these scenes belong in a football ground.
I guess you guys are "so tolerant" like fascists are... :rollani: Same sh!te but in other hand... sorry
Are you ok there? :rolleyes:
I think it is stupid for Berlu to take such a side. Di Canio is becoming an old fart, and getting such support from Berlu probably was his unexpected "pleasant" surprise. :rolleyes:
ACMILAN1983
29-12-2005, 21:36
I'm not going to comment on the topic but...
guys can you all please be careful of what is said in this thread, as it can quite easily lead to political arguments, which as you all hopefully know is against forum rules.
I know this is difficult considering the whole ordeal is about political matters and really I don't see why this thread hasn't been closed already other than maybe that it is related to football.
Either way, lets not let arguments rise about left and right wings and instead focus on the point of the thread on whether Di Canio was right in displaying his political stance like that and whether Berlusconi was correct in "defending" his antics.
I'm not going to comment on the topic but...
guys can you all please be careful of what is said in this thread, as it can quite easily lead to political arguments, which as you all hopefully know is against forum rules.
I know this is difficult considering the whole ordeal is about political matters and really I don't see why this thread hasn't been closed already other than maybe that it is related to football.
Either way, lets not let arguments rise about left and right wings and instead focus on the point of the thread on whether Di Canio was right in displaying his political stance like that and whether Berlusconi was correct in "defending" his antics.
Yeah! And I then will have to come in and clean you all off the floor! Political talk here huh??? I'll let Dev handle this.
why take strict action on di canio??? ... to be honest its people like u who sound 'evil' and not di canio, let him be, hes a facist, so what??? ur not??? what makes u think ur better than him?? ... as long as hes not causing havoc im fine, if he goes and swears at a group he doesnt like then ok id understand, but all hes doing is exposing what he believes in, how is that different from cafu taking out the brazilian flag and running around the pitch in it??? what if i dont like brazil??? does cafu have to pay for this? ... this is ridiculous, stop discriminating others just because u dont agree with their ideas.
why take strict action on di canio??? ... to be honest its people like u who sound 'evil' and not di canio, let him be, hes a facist, so what??? ur not??? what makes u think ur better than him?? ... as long as hes not causing havoc im fine, if he goes and swears at a group he doesnt like then ok id understand, but all hes doing is exposing what he believes in, how is that different from cafu taking out the brazilian flag and running around the pitch in it??? what if i dont like brazil??? does cafu have to pay for this? ... this is ridiculous, stop discriminating others just because u dont agree with their ideas.
I agree with ACMILAN1983 that this topic isn't really going anywhere and probably isn't helping anybody, but to be honest mk18, can you really not see the difference between Di Canio's actions and Cafu waving a Brazilian flag? Lazio's Ultra's use swastika's in the style of Hitler's NSDAP party, who were responsible for an estimated 5,962,129 deaths between 1934 and 1945. Di Canio is making a sign which he clearly understands the significance of for the Lazio fans and other people watching the game, and in my opinion, that is unacceptable. I am not saying that he doesn't have the right to hold whatever opinions he chooses, but to make those signs are offensive to millions of people around the world because of the historical connotations of them. If it is acceptable for him to make these signs, is it ok to make monkey noises and throw banana's at black players? I would say no, but using your logic, it is only people expressing their opinions.
As for the Communism question, I am not going to try and defend the actions of Communist leaders such as Stalin, but I think that often people's expressions are usually linked to Communist ideology, rather than specific leaders. In this case, Lazio Ultras are making specific reference to Hitler and Mussolini through use of Swastika's and straight-arm salutes, rather than simply fascist ideology.
Apologies ACMILAN1983 - I hope that this isn't political argument, but rather trying to discuss this topic in a historical context.
I guess you guys are "so tolerant" like fascists are... :rollani: Same sh!te but in other hand... sorry
You're right about this but how can you be tolerant with fascists???
I agree that this kind of scenes don't belong on a football ground,i don't understand how can you defend Di Canio reactions, i know you are open minded but to fascism no!!!
:swars:
its ridiculous to compare Cafu waving a Brazilian flag around to Dicanio doing a nazi salute. :rollani:
why take strict action on di canio??? ... to be honest its people like u who sound 'evil' and not di canio, let him be, hes a facist, so what??? ur not??? what makes u think ur better than him?? ... as long as hes not causing havoc im fine, if he goes and swears at a group he doesnt like then ok id understand, but all hes doing is exposing what he believes in, how is that different from cafu taking out the brazilian flag and running around the pitch in it??? what if i dont like brazil??? does cafu have to pay for this? ... this is ridiculous, stop discriminating others just because u dont agree with their ideas.Yup. This is what I have in my mind. Lads, if you are so intolerant to fascism you can be equated with them so easily. Refuse and deny any kind of intercourse with them [fascists] is very unwarrantable action and actually does not solve the problem but even make it more profound and menacing.I agree with ACMILAN1983 that this topic isn't really going anywhere and probably isn't helping anybody, but to be honest mk18, can you really not see the difference between Di Canio's actions and Cafu waving a Brazilian flag? Lazio's Ultra's use swastika's in the style of Hitler's NSDAP party, who were responsible for an estimated 5,962,129 deaths between 1934 and 1945. Di Canio is making a sign which he clearly understands the significance of for the Lazio fans and other people watching the game, and in my opinion, that is unacceptable. I am not saying that he doesn't have the right to hold whatever opinions he chooses, but to make those signs are offensive to millions of people around the world because of the historical connotations of them. If it is acceptable for him to make these signs, is it ok to make monkey noises and throw banana's at black players? I would say no, but using your logic, it is only people expressing their opinions.Mate, you are a bit lost in yer facts. Let me ask you, is Di Canio responsible making his salute for what nazi have done to humankind?
And let me emphasize that fascism in Italia was not the same what nazism in Germany. Italians refused to exterminate Jews even they were close friends and allies to germans ;)
And let me emphasize that fascism in Italia was not the same what nazism in Germany. Italians refused to exterminate Jews even they were close friends and allies to germans ;)
Yes, and dont forget they were on the allied side by the time the allies invaded in 1943.
Italians refused to exterminate Jews even they were close friends and allies to germans ;)
How wonderful of them. :dconf:
Football should be free of politics period. Infact the Milan hardcore apparently dont allow anything political to be said on the stands. Tolerance is one thing, but allowing so called roll models carry on this way isnt on. Its not a coincidence that in Rome that so many players have suffered racial abuse. Cafu a Milan player was often called monkey. Or should Cafu be tolerant of that. Should players like Zorro just put up with it. :finger:
Surely if Di Canio is to be penalised, then Lucarelli, he of the weekly clenched fist communist salute, should be too? and don't start going into "it's only ideology" as communist dictators probably killed just as many people if not more than fascists.
I agree with drumming out politics from football, but it will only work if you're even handed.
:u56: Gosh you guys got me itching to join in! :u56:
Yup. This is what I have in my mind. Lads, if you are so intolerant to fascism you can be equated with them so easily. Refuse and deny any kind of intercourse with them [fascists] is very unwarrantable action and actually does not solve the problem but even make it more profound and menacing.Mate, you are a bit lost in yer facts. Let me ask you, is Di Canio responsible making his salute for what nazi have done to humankind?
And let me emphasize that fascism in Italia was not the same what nazism in Germany. Italians refused to exterminate Jews even they were close friends and allies to germans ;)
I'm just trying to use facts to highlight why I think the links with what Di Canio is doing are unacceptable. Of course Di Canio is not responsible personally for the holocaust, but the ideas behind this are. Di Canio is openly a fomer member of Lazio's Ultras, who use symbols (such as the swastika) borrowed from the Nazi party, not from Mussolini's fascist party. He has the right to these views, as does everyone else, but I don't think that it is acceptable to make straight-arm salutes which insight people. Whether or not the salute has historical roots dating back to Roman times, it is considered in the 21st century as symbolic of Nazism, as is the swastika, which was previously a sign of peace.
And while we're on about facts and history, you're very much mistaken if you believe that Italy had no link to the holocaust - under German occupation there were 5,000 killed in Trieste and 8,000 deported, mainly to Auschwitz-Birkenau, from Rome, Milan, Genoa and Florence. This may have been done by the Germans and not Italians, but is still means that the straight-arm salute and swastika have a meaning in Northern Italy which is linked to Hilter and Nazism, as much as Mussolini and his fascism.
I agree with drumming out politics from football, but it will only work if you're even handed.
Fair enough
How wonderful of them. :dconf:
Football should be free of politics period. Infact the Milan hardcore apparently dont allow anything political to be said on the stands. Tolerance is one thing, but allowing so called roll models carry on this way isnt on. Its not a coincidence that in Rome that so many players have suffered racial abuse. Cafu a Milan player was often called monkey. Or should Cafu be tolerant of that. Should players like Zorro just put up with it. :finger:So what? Di Canio is guilty because other players are abused? :rolleyes: Is not it sound ridiculous?Surely if Di Canio is to be penalised, then Lucarelli, he of the weekly clenched fist communist salute, should be too? and don't start going into "it's only ideology" as communist dictators probably killed just as many people if not more than fascists.Yup. Why Di Canio is punished for his salute while Lucarelli enjoys communist gestures? :wth:
And bey the way, Rab, you are right. Communist dictators have entailed far more deaths all over the world than fascists. And what is more the still keep on doing their dirty mission on Earth while West stay scilent. :frustrat: North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam?! :wth:
Actually I can not stand doulbe standarts.I agree with drumming out politics from football, but it will only work if you're even handed.It's impossible to kick out politics, cuz it is everywhere, in each single sphere of our lives.And while we're on about facts and history, you're very much mistaken if you believe that Italy had no link to the holocaust - under German occupation there were 5,000 killed in Trieste and 8,000 deported, mainly to Auschwitz-Birkenau, from Rome, Milan, Genoa and Florence. This may have been done by the Germans and not Italians, but is still means that the straight-arm salute and swastika have a meaning in Northern Italy which is linked to Hilter and Nazism, as much as Mussolini and his fascism.If not Mussolini's resistance to nazi antisemitism policy holocaust could have been much more ferocious. Thsnks God italians were not so stupid as germans were.
ACMILAN1983
31-12-2005, 16:23
Guys, I reiterate what I said the other day, please do not argue political matters in this forum.
This thread is focusing on whether Di Canio (and other footballing figures) should openly make such political gestures on the football field and whether Berlusconi's reaction was correct.
It should not be a place to argue whether Communists or Facists are or have been worse throughout history and which side is correct or not.
Well there's just too much blood in the water and this shark's got to bite! So here I go.
Did Di Canio show poor judgement??? Yes I think he did.
Is there a double standard??? Yes there is. While there is an uproar about what Di Canio has done, where is the uproar as well when we see many political gestures and signs from all political bases at nearly all football matches???
Do we not realize that Livorno has a base that is very communistic thus Luccarelli goes and professes his beliefs??? What about the teams that show Catalan (Barca), Castillian(Madrid), or Basque(Bilbao) sentimentalities??? Are they not all part of SPAIN???
Let's not forget about the "Old Firm" in Scotland either shall we???
or The fact that you have these things going on between MTK Sofia vs. Ferencauros. How about the days when Red Star Belgrade had a Fan base that was led by none other ARKAN???
The point is that in football people, fans and athletes will show some sort of gesture that will identify to some type of nationalism, political, or ethnical identity. What may be a gesture of pride to some will be offensive to others. Let's not fool ourselves by thinking that there is nothing political going on when the Argentine fans jeer during the Brazilain National Anthem or vice versa.
As far as the San Siro and Milanisti not showing some "questionable" signs.... again it is naive to say that the BRN Death Head symbol stands for nothing. Or the time when I was at a Milan game some fans went as far as burning the flag of my nation. I didnt make a fuss! I could have... but I didnt. Why??? For the very fact(s) that 1. I think my country and its people can handle and outweigh some little fool just expressing himself. and 2. Knowing that there are people out there who feel such a way, perhaps the governance of us all should change and hopefully for the better.
Again let us not think that Fascism or any other -isms are just going to disappear by having it "out of sight" thus "out of people minds". These idiots arent going to be nice by telling them to put their d@mn swaztikas in the closet. As I said better that they are exposed for all to see than for them to be in some smoke filled room plotting the next rise to Totalitarianism. Just think of it... me being a brown skinned lad not knowing the beliefs some these bozos have end up sitting in thier section because I didnt see any "fascist" type banners??? Knowing by physically seeing what they believe in will allow me better judgement to perhaps dont even think about sitting by such fans. How is it possible for me to know if such expression isnt being showed at all???
Freedom of Speech and expression is a double edged sword. It isnt only supposed to work for some people, but for all, including those who publically snub their noses at such freedoms including the freedom of equality and such. Those principal founders of these freedoms knew all to well that if you have double standards applied to the rule, you only keep these kinds of people working in secret and not exposing them for who they are.
I think Football can handle these things.
I found some funny pictures to do with this whole thing. Some, nothing to do with it at all. :dcool:
http://www.forzaitalia.info/immaginigrandi/berlusconi%20e%20busch%20a%20roma.jpg
K77SH C hahahah that last picture when he's touching his.... :ilol:
then I just have to say that Di Canio is a smart man. From being a not so well known player he after rosen his right arm today are recognized and known by most people.
Tanja, welcome to MM... I have to say I don't think that idea has crossed Di Canio's mind... he's a veteran... and even though he's not exactly famous (like, let's say Totti, for example)... he has been well known for years...
then I just have to say that Di Canio is a smart man. From being a not so well known player he after rosen his right arm today are recognized and known by most people.yeah, he is. Although he used the stupidity of populace to become famous..
Giovanni
04-01-2006, 10:55
Well, as much as I love having him as a our president, he's a right winger and has never been known to be particularly sensitive or politically correct. Dicanio on the other hand is a complete idiot.
Liberal more than right winger, plus don't forget that political parties and chategories cange dramatically from country to country, let alone from continents and traditions like Italy and Usa.
Berlusconi is a liberal and a liberist that believes in the free market first, and in the chance for each one to become what he has become. Hardly a right winger, as we all know that Fascist were the harshest enemies of the free market, and that Mussolini conceived economy as ruled by the State in every department.
Di Canio inspires himself on the values of Romanity and on the values of Roman Empire greatness which were part of the Fascist nationalist propaganda(esp in the '20s) but i won't say he's a racist or even worse a nazi which are different things.
Tanja, welcome to MM... I have to say I don't think that idea has crossed Di Canio's mind... he's a veteran... and even though he's not exactly famous (like, let's say Totti, for example)... he has been well known for years...
thank you =)
i wasn't refering to people intrested in fotball I was thinking about those who don't support any team and only watches fotball when it' the WC. My mum for example (who thinks Bayern Munchen was a type of beer) today is aware of who Di Canio is and that there is a team kalled Lazio in Italy. What do some people say? All publicity is good publicity.
& rae i agree, the thing he did was stupid, I mean the man can have his oppioions but I don't think he should express them at the stadium.
im not saying i support di canio's actions, personally i think the same way kui does... why dont people just learn to ignore? ... my point is, alot of people here are talking as if nazism is the worst thing ever, what makes u think that what u believe in is right and that what u dont is wrong?? ... the number of deaths??? ... times change... its like comparing maradona to pele, i think maradona is the best, but u cant say it as a fact simply because there are far to many differences, howecome those who believe in the american free market system are not seen as evil as nazism, i for one find it much worse, and im not going to lie, i also think the israeli gvernment is bad or evil, but i have no proof that its wrong and im right... im not even a supporter of nazism or facism or whatever, but for god sake, theres no right or wrong in this case...
so some people find that gesture offensive??? ... maybe nazi's find it offensive when u make them sound evil... should u be fined?! ... some people expose their beliefs uneccessarily... why make it a bigger problem when u can simply ignore them?
& rae i agree, the thing he did was stupid, I mean the man can have his oppioions but I don't think he should express them at the stadium.Nooo :grinser:
I intended to say that he used stupid crowd to gain his popularity. Crowd is very stupid so they accepted what he has declared the way he wanted.
thank you =)
What do some people say? All publicity is good publicity.
A good observation tanja. It did create quite a stir. I dont think some of the Lazio fans are trying to increase their fan base with a load of Nazis. But the publicity is out there for us to see and know who these people are and what they are about. I dont condone or believe in the idea of Fascism or Totalitarianism. I actually vehemently despise it.
& rae i agree, the thing he did was stupid
What he did was "questionable" and in poor judgement yet we can not say what his intents truly were. Do we know for a fact that he IS A NAZI??? Is it possible in his psyche known only to himself, that he did the "sieg heil" salute as a mockng gesture to the fascist wing of the Lazio CurvaNord??? It would be nice if he shed a little light on his motivations, but he has the right to not disclose this. What if he despises Fascism??? Would it be wise for him to put his career at Lazio in jeapordy to disclose this??? Is he perhaps the showman as he was in England who gets his personna through contreversy for the sole reason to promote himself??? Does this mean he supports or beleives in such ideaology??? So let us not make fools of ourselves by assuming things that may not be true.
, I mean the man can have his oppioions but I don't think he should express them at the stadium.
Well that would also mean that Kaka cannot point to the sky attributing his goal to the almighty in such cases it offends the athiests out there. Or Maldini cant cross his chest in asking for a blessing from god. That would also mean Ali Daiei from Iran or any other player from a country, cannot drape the flag of their country around themselves in the stadium after a well deserved victory. I guess it is wrong to have opinions or sense of personal, idealogical, national, or religious identity shown by athletes in a stadium. You surely dont mean what you say.
Listen... I dont like it when the nazi salute is shown or when you have banners of communist symbols being displayed at a game. In my earlier posts I also meantioned the display of identity such as that of the Catalan fans of Barca. Are we to ban them or players of Catalan pride form showing this for fear it will annoy the Castillian Madridstas? Is it wrong for Castillian pride to be shown because it annoys the Basque???
If we are trying to be tolerant. Than toleration must be available to all people even those who dont believe in it. Because anything short of that is a double standard. So any calls to tell DiCanio or Lazio fans to stop displaying there opinions is also a call to tell Milanisti, Catalan, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, French, Amercian, Italian, English and whomever to stop as well. And this in itself is the supression of expression and thus tyranny too.
Warro Bantan
11-01-2006, 11:18
Well there's just too much blood in the water and this shark's got to bite! So here I go.
Did Di Canio show poor judgement??? Yes I think he did.
Is there a double standard??? Yes there is. While there is an uproar about what Di Canio has done, where is the uproar as well when we see many political gestures and signs from all political bases at nearly all football matches???
Do we not realize that Livorno has a base that is very communistic thus Luccarelli goes and professes his beliefs??? What about the teams that show Catalan (Barca), Castillian(Madrid), or Basque(Bilbao) sentimentalities??? Are they not all part of SPAIN???
Let's not forget about the "Old Firm" in Scotland either shall we???
or The fact that you have these things going on between MTK Sofia vs. Ferencauros. How about the days when Red Star Belgrade had a Fan base that was led by none other ARKAN???
The point is that in football people, fans and athletes will show some sort of gesture that will identify to some type of nationalism, political, or ethnical identity. What may be a gesture of pride to some will be offensive to others. Let's not fool ourselves by thinking that there is nothing political going on when the Argentine fans jeer during the Brazilain National Anthem or vice versa.
As far as the San Siro and Milanisti not showing some "questionable" signs.... again it is naive to say that the BRN Death Head symbol stands for nothing. Or the time when I was at a Milan game some fans went as far as burning the flag of my nation. I didnt make a fuss! I could have... but I didnt. Why??? For the very fact(s) that 1. I think my country and its people can handle and outweigh some little fool just expressing himself. and 2. Knowing that there are people out there who feel such a way, perhaps the governance of us all should change and hopefully for the better.
Again let us not think that Fascism or any other -isms are just going to disappear by having it "out of sight" thus "out of people minds". These idiots arent going to be nice by telling them to put their d@mn swaztikas in the closet. As I said better that they are exposed for all to see than for them to be in some smoke filled room plotting the next rise to Totalitarianism. Just think of it... me being a brown skinned lad not knowing the beliefs some these bozos have end up sitting in thier section because I didnt see any "fascist" type banners??? Knowing by physically seeing what they believe in will allow me better judgement to perhaps dont even think about sitting by such fans. How is it possible for me to know if such expression isnt being showed at all???
Freedom of Speech and expression is a double edged sword. It isnt only supposed to work for some people, but for all, including those who publically snub their noses at such freedoms including the freedom of equality and such. Those principal founders of these freedoms knew all to well that if you have double standards applied to the rule, you only keep these kinds of people working in secret and not exposing them for who they are.
I think Football can handle these things.
EXCELLENT POST KUI!!!!!!!
As a brown skinned Jamaican, I will say nothing on this thread but this:
One Love.
one of the best posts ive read in a long while
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