View Full Version : I'm being too pessimistic or not?
GRE-NO-LI
22-02-2006, 21:15
I must admit that I'm really a bit to much pessimistic sometimes, so feel free to disagree with me whenever you want. That said, let's past to subject in question:
Seeing other CL matches of yesterday and today, it came to me the impression that our main rivals (with the single exception of ZOMBIE Madrid) are looking more livelier than us, playing with a whole lot more brightness and enthusiasm. Even Juventus, that made a flop on the final minutes, seems to have played with more grit and gusto than us, not to mention, of course, Barcelona and Arsenal. I guess we played in a rather burocratic fashion, that is to say, we have a solid display, but also lukewarm and lazy.
Well, feel free to flame me if you disagree!
grenoli... i like you... ur a good guy,,, but like many new posters here, you do tend to be verrryy pessimistic... but i wouldnt worry about that because sooner or later you will realise that ur a pain and ull stop... we were all like that! :D
concerning the game, i think all 8 games are still undecided, and looking at the result we got, i think we got a very good result... in terms of determination, i think in the 2nd half we played very very good compared to the 1st, i was happy to see a concentrated defence, and i was more glad to see gattuso run for every ball again... im not worried so far... barca had to do what they did because theyde regret it alot if they didnt capitalise on del horno's red in stam. bridge! ... juve, i havent seen their match, but its never good to concede to late goals...
GRE-NO-LI
22-02-2006, 21:40
You see, we didn't play a bad game, that's not the point.. but I feel that we're kinda uninspired and lifeless, not managing to the give enthusiasm to the fans... well, I guess my poor english writing are not leting me to express what I really wanna say...
GRE-MO-LI, I don't disagree with you, bro. Not at all.
Did you see Barca's second goal today? That was just a good demonstration of proper spacing on the break, making yourself available for a pass, and keen awareness where teammates were going to be. Milan just don't have that singular mentality these days; no rhythm, no spacing, no useful running...It was like a bad version of "street-ball" vs. Bayern. Seriously I couldn't keep my eyes open watching the game on Tivo. I also found myself fast forwarding through the game.
Anyway, I'm just saying it as I see it, folks. Yes, I would like to see and discuss with you guys "Il Grande Milan", but Carlo has got to make some adjustments personnel-wise and tactical changes as well. Sorry for me coming out here and being pessimistic.
GRE-NO-LI
22-02-2006, 22:56
That's it, Goose: Milan are not playing in an entertaining and brighty fashion, on the contrary, our gameplay is nowadays tedious, sluggish, colorless and lackluster. Where's the effervescent rhythm , the beautiful interplay, the sparkling dynamics we are used to see and expect from our great side?
I guess our love for the team is not too different from love to another person... and you they say that those who love fear everything... those who are loved, fear nothing...
it is normal to feel the way you're feeling... up to a point, we all share that...
the thing is to be reallistic, without being negative...
I've had my moments myself... at some point, I mentioned I thought Bayern could beat us... that's when we were doing really poorly on defense... now there's room for improvement, but we're OK...
Elimination rounds like these in UCL are rarely decided by an entirely convincing superiority... it's a matter of litte details in crucial plays... how many times has an underdog win because of a lucky goal, even though the favorite controlled the entire game???
Plus, we will now play at home, unlike La Coruna, or Istambul... and we have an away goal...
so keep the faith...
101% disagree with you. Every game is unique in nature and it's difficult to compare and say, "Hey, look at the rest of the games and the rest play so much better". We slammed Juve 3-1 at home and much lively than them. Look at the table, who is on the top?
My point is, this is CL, and everything is just so unpredictable. I don't think it'll be fair to assess Milan based on this.
AND, btw, Bayern has not drawn (let alone loss) a single game at home thus far. If Chelsea has also achieved that prior vs. Barca and lost to Barca, t hen it maybe a worthy comparison. Yet still, CHelsea is from England and Bayern is from Germany. a 13-straight home win at Stamford is different from 13-straight home win at the German ground, although it speaks well how strong both teams are.
But the fact remains:
Milan's opponent is Bayern, not Chelsea, not Barca, not anyone else. There is no other team playing against Bayern in the CL 16th stage, except Milan.
Take some moment to think about both side of the coins before you post a really thoughtful comment. Drop your sterotype against the fact that Milan is not playing the football that you (and probably we) are wishing for.
GRE-NO-LI
23-02-2006, 00:15
Well, Jeff... I guess you are right in respect of the fact that each game and adversary are unique, that's is really beyond doubts... but that doesn't change the fact we are not playing the exhilarating football Milan used us to expect and love. Things are moving low, and our game is becoming increasingly ugly.
after read all posts i must agree with gre-no-li, goose and jeff...
for me, milanīs football sucks! in two words...boring and stressful because the last 10 min. of the game they defend with all players and abdicate of attacking...itīs suffocating!
i think with quality players ACM have, we should play a lot better than we are playing now..but ACM always played in this system; itīs the clubīs culture and i am sorry with that because we could be more frightful that weīre right now.
i would love to see ACM play like Barcelona or Chelsea - with no fear...attacking football! with players ACM have we deserverd that. i want to see the ACM of the first 45 min from last CL final...that was truly football!!
but, on the other way, every time ACM plays, there isnīt only 3 points in discussion (in all competitions). there is the history of a huge club, the objectives and f course money! (how much better are the results, more money is gerated - merchandising, valuating of the players, etc). so thatīs why they play like they play; they cannot risk to much in order of losing everything (but this system is not 100% safe - look at the result of CL final last year; and La Coruna a few years ago) ..ACM always played without taking any risks and we will continue to play like this, because the next coach (whatever who will be) will also play in this system. letīs hope it wonīt be sleepy football
saying this, ACM result in German was very good (i didnīt expected) but we must thank the referee because if he hadnīt appointed to the penalty kick, i doubt ACM could score a goal. we only had 2 shot on goal! the goal it self and shevaīs kick...very poorly for a team like ACM
now letīs see in italy; with this draw itīs possible... :)
see ya
GRE-NO-LI
23-02-2006, 01:20
so thatīs why they play like they play
Excellent post, Flamy, but I have to disagree with that observation of you that I quoted: if it's true that we've always played with caution and pragmatism, it's also true that in other times with managed to mix that secure game style with lots of creativity, bold attacking football and a great deal of fantasia, think about Van Basten's Milan between 1987 - 1990, or Savicevic's Milan between 1992 - 95.
Well, Jeff... I guess you are right in respect of the fact that each game and adversary are unique, that's is really beyond doubts... but that doesn't change the fact we are not playing the exhilarating football Milan used us to expect and love. Things are moving low, and our game is becoming increasingly ugly.
Listen: I don't understand why you don't put such a post after we win 4-0, or 4-1 in the 3rd and 2nd last games we played. Or, I don't undersatnd why you don't put a 'praising' post after we win with such a big margin. Basically your criticism stopped. YOu gave your compliment, but you have nothing to praise for Milan. I watched both games and I think Milan gives me a very satisfying performance. Even the 1-0 game gives me a lot of confidence as we go into the Bayern game.
Then you post, with guile, at this moment when we draw 1-1 and didn't play extreme nice. Do YOU think that you are a pessimist? I think so, or simply you are waiting for chances to bash Milan, in whatever way you can. A 1-1 performance against one of the strongest team in the world, and you start saying that we are playing tedious football again. I'm very tired of your post, and many of us here feel tired and redundent to read your post as well. The reason I'm telling you this is because I want to appeal to you to take a look at the big picture. To be honest, Milan didn't play very exiciting football the year they won the champion leauge. We almost crashed out against Ajax and won only on away goal against Inter Milan. At that time, Milan waas in no way any more less tedious/boring/slow than now. I see the last 2 years as Milan really strong, one that play nice, exciting football which, unfortunately, the results don't fully reflect.
There is no problem in saying that Milan play lousy/tedious/slow football, but there IS a problem when you are speaking without concrete evidence and with much cynicism. The fact that Milan won 3 games in a role, scored 10 goals and conceded only 1, was not exhilarating enough for you. The fact that Milan has scored more than 60 goals in the league is not enough to satisfy you.
If your expectation is such that Milan won 4-0 every game, go back to football manager where you can buy your dream players. Or, support Roma.
Excellent post, Flamy, but I have to disagree with that observation of you that I quoted: if it's true that we've always played with caution and pragmatism, it's also true that in other times with managed to mix that secure game style with lots of creativity, bold attacking football and a great deal of fantasia, think about Van Basten's Milan between 1987 - 1990, or Savicevic's Milan between 1992 - 95.
Simple reason. Football in 1987 - 1990 or 1992 - 1995 has changed. Football in 1987 - 1990, while good to remember, is in no way better standard than now. Having said, qualities of players have improved, not just Milan players but also other teams' players. THat's probably why you engage in transfer market every season, to make your team remain competitive enough. It's good to have fond memory of the old day, but football tomorrow is not football day. Like technology, football evolves with in high speed too. Just look at the players 10 years before and now. Just the physical size will immediately make a big impact.
Please, say something with concrete evidence. When the evidence is here such that Milan scored 10 goals with 1 conceded, and draw with a team that has not even drawn at home and that considered a great team in the world, I don't know what you expect. Be realistic.
It's just so interesting to me that if Sheva has scored the 1vs1, I bet none of you will be commenting how bad Milan is, that fans will be in exhilirating mood. that's another mistake, becuase probably Milan wouldn't deserve to win. But again, speak with evidence, thus with authority. Don't throw out something without evidence.
And finally, Bayern is very lively when they play against teams in the domestic league, and so did they against Milan in the first half. Where were these exhilarating/heartbreaking performance in the second half from them?
GRE-NO-LI
23-02-2006, 02:51
Milan isn't playing a football worth of it's name for a long time, that's the sad truth... I get happy with our victories, since I love Milan very much, but I will not hide from myself the fact that we're playing in a rather uninspired fashion. As you already pointed out, we didn't play an exciting and entertaining football even when we win our last CL, for God's sake!
But I pretende to finish here my participation on the present thread, a topic that I created with the sole purpose of discussing in a peaceful way the current state of affairs of our side; however, since you are becoming to be rude and unpolite, I prefer to stop here.
One final word: I WILL NEVER SUPPORT ROMA OR ANY OTHER SIDE BESIDES MILAN AND BOTAFOGO, 'CAUSE MY LOVE FOR THEM IS BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT, SO I WILL NOT ADMIT ANYONE PUTING THAT IN QUESTION!
GRE-NO-LI
23-02-2006, 02:54
Well, if today's Milan has a "better standard" than that we have in 1988 or 1994, I really don't have anything more to say...
devoted_dm
23-02-2006, 03:37
I don't really agree that we're playing worse than the other teams in the CL. Actually our second half performance last night was really good. Bayern couldn't even get a proper shot on goal, and we were lethal when counter-attacking, combining well and moving into spaces. If our performance was uninspired, I sure as hell didn't notice, because I thought the players fought very hard to earn that draw. We were actually unfortunate not to win the game, considering some of the chances we had. I have a Juventino friend, who, after Werder - Juve, said: "I wish we would have played like *men*, like Milan played last night."
We played better than Juve did, and we were in no way inferior to Bayern last night. They had a period when they were dominating, but so did we.
ukrainian_CA
23-02-2006, 03:40
Did you see Barca's second goal today? That was just a good demonstration of proper spacing on the break, making yourself available for a pass, and keen awareness where teammates were going to be. Milan just don't have that singular mentality these days; no rhythm, no spacing, no useful running...It was like a bad version of "street-ball" vs. Bayern. Seriously I couldn't keep my eyes open watching the game on Tivo. I also found myself fast forwarding through the game.
.... Sorry for me coming out here and being pessimistic.
Did you also see how easy was the last 15 minutes for Barca and how heavy Chelsea players looked? Barca just had the ball 80% of the time. Did you also see why the english got tired so much, did you see the stupid ruling of the ref. to eject on pitiful and shameless Messi's injury faking?
I do not support Chelsea, I just hate when someone takes pieces of the game and edits them for his/her liking. Messi faked it like a 30 y old pro. He is a great footballer, but
he learned "dirty deeds" too early I reckon.
Milan would actually would score the 3rd and the 4th goal should they play instead of Barca today the last 15 minutes, I am positive on that.
I have to say even though I dont agree with your pessimism, I do think this was a good thread that you started G. If we look at Milan with the reasons you have made in defense of it, you are correct. This Milan does not have the appearance of playing with any grit or guts. Of course we are just small potatoes in the big world of Football. Who knows what will happen. I remember the 2003 campaign where we just looked like cr@p and we end up winning the CL. I say let us wait til the end. Of course in true hypocrite fashion, I'm considering creating a very controversial thread about who will win this years CL. I dont think any of you will like to know who I think will win. Some of you will laugh it off and I hope you do, cause this won is going to be messed up.
Good thread G.
BaggioForever
23-02-2006, 04:27
after read all posts i must agree with gre-no-li, goose and jeff...
for me, milanīs football sucks! in two words...boring and stressful because the last 10 min. of the game they defend with all players and abdicate of attacking...itīs suffocating!
i think with quality players ACM have, we should play a lot better than we are playing now..but ACM always played in this system; itīs the clubīs culture and i am sorry with that because we could be more frightful that weīre right now.
i would love to see ACM play like Barcelona or Chelsea - with no fear...attacking football! with players ACM have we
go support Barca or Chelsea, Milan dont need u.
Giovanni
23-02-2006, 04:42
On the contrary, i think we can get further with this low profile team rather than with an overconfident bunch of satisfied primedonne. I want to shock you and i say: we'll reach the finals, because our players will show BALLS among all the troubles we are facing.
The turning point will be the return of our Capitano.
BaggioForever
23-02-2006, 04:47
Well, feel free to flame me if you disagree!
But I pretende to finish here my participation on the present thread, a topic that I created with the sole purpose of discussing in a peaceful way the current state of affairs of our side; however, since you are becoming to be rude and unpolite, I prefer to stop here.
So what is it? You want us to flame you or not? :haha: But from the looks of it, i guess you will need some serious lecturing from Jeff and masters of this forum :1old: to stop your pessimism amist cynicism of Milan.
And this wont stop unless YOU stop all your 'without concrete evidence' claims about Milan. :sagrin:
gre no li did u see the game?bayern vs milan?
Bayern were a new team to us,wee dident play againts them for some years now so what did u expect againts a german team?first half 4-0?
Now le`me explain,balack goal was only the few ocasion they got in the first half.Milan in the first half studied there oponent.
In the second half whit a lil bit of luck wee could have easly crushed them on 3-1 score,so i guess u can say that milan is missing luck,but milan missing entusiams and all that,your plain rong.
But I pretende to finish here my participation on the present thread, a topic that I created with the sole purpose of discussing in a peaceful way the current state of affairs of our side; however, since you are becoming to be rude and unpolite, I prefer to stop here.
I doubt if I see any room of discussion here, because I don't see your case of defense when I say "I don't understand why you don't put such a post after we win 4-0, or 4-1 in the 3rd and 2nd last games we played. Or, I don't undersatnd why you don't put a 'praising' post after we win with such a big margin. Basically your criticism stopped. YOu gave your compliment, but you have nothing to praise for Milan. I watched both games and I think Milan gives me a very satisfying performance. Even the 1-0 game gives me a lot of confidence as we go into the Bayern game."
I don't see in any way you want to discuss. In psychological term, you are simply looking for people who shares same idea with you, i.e., Milan play with boring/tedious football. These are all very subtle, but we can all tell. The reason that I'm not happy with your post (not you) is that you have been choosing your timing of the post very carefully, or simply your personality is in such a way that a 1-1 draw game will make you feel insecure/pessismistic. That's fine, but you don't need to open a thread EVERY SINGLE TIME to make THE SAME POINT. We are tired of it.
I"m glad that you try to make this a peaceful discussion, I appreciate that. At the same time, though, you'll only hear one side of the story, i.e., that Milan plays boring/tedious football and never come to realize the other flip side of the coin.
Finally, don't try to manipulative and put ME in the back seat. I read my post very carefully and make sure that I don't aim at you but your post. I make sure that you can still see the other side of the coin. Remember, if it sounds unpolite and rude to you, imagine how rude and unpolite some posts can be when they are repeatedly bombastic about how bad Milan is and "without concrete evidence".
after read all posts i must agree with gre-no-li, goose and jeff...
for me, milanīs football sucks! in two words...boring and stressful because the last 10 min. of the game they defend with all players and abdicate of attacking...itīs suffocating!
i think with quality players ACM have, we should play a lot better than we are playing now..but ACM always played in this system; itīs the clubīs culture and i am sorry with that because we could be more frightful that weīre right now.
i would love to see ACM play like Barcelona or Chelsea - with no fear...attacking football! with players ACM have we deserverd that. i want to see the ACM of the first 45 min from last CL final...that was truly football!!
but, on the other way, every time ACM plays, there isnīt only 3 points in discussion (in all competitions). there is the history of a huge club, the objectives and f course money! (how much better are the results, more money is gerated - merchandising, valuating of the players, etc). so thatīs why they play like they play; they cannot risk to much in order of losing everything (but this system is not 100% safe - look at the result of CL final last year; and La Coruna a few years ago) ..ACM always played without taking any risks and we will continue to play like this, because the next coach (whatever who will be) will also play in this system. letīs hope it wonīt be sleepy football
saying this, ACM result in German was very good (i didnīt expected) but we must thank the referee because if he hadnīt appointed to the penalty kick, i doubt ACM could score a goal. we only had 2 shot on goal! the goal it self and shevaīs kick...very poorly for a team like ACM
now letīs see in italy; with this draw itīs possible... :)
see yaI concur on point that Milan should try to play more attacking football cuz it looks much better than the one we are playing now... however it depends on coach... Barca has super offence... however poor defence. chelski does not have anything what is called beauty of football... I hate to watch them playing... it's very boring... I wonder how ski fans can cope to watch so many boring games dunring the season :nervous: :groan:
go support Barca or Chelsea, Milan dont need u.
tell me one thing baggioforever, do you like to see sometimes ACM games with your heart in your hands?! you must understand one thing: iīm a fan like all of you, but i donīt have responsabilities of playing...i donīt have a salary of 400/500 thousand per month!! yes, i hate to see some games when we always play in counter attack...Milan-juve was a great game, but why we didinīt play in the same way at Samp-Milan or Roma-Milan for example?
not only the results are important...our football style is also important..thatīs one of the reasons why the attendance of italians games went down (and the price of the tickets as well)
we should face every game "mano a mano", with no fear..i think all fans deserve that
Gre-no-li, now I simply believe there's nothing we can do to help you.
You applaud Flamy's post because he agrees with you, being equally (and unbelievably) difficult to satisfy.
You're not being critic, and you're not being ambicious (wishing for excellence).
Jeff has done everything I can think of the help you understand that despite a few bad games (like at Samp., Roma) Milan has done very well... look at the numbers, look at the numbers, look at the numbers...
This is starting to look like those who critized Gilardino without realizing he's one of the Serie A top scorers, taking only one Penalty Kick in the last game.
It is not that Milan is having a bad season, it's only that Juve has not conceeded anything, except the loss against Milan.
Question to you, how many points did Milan have during the last 3 seasons arriving to this next Giornata? (Compare)
I concur on point that Milan should try to play more attacking football cuz it looks much better than the one we are playing now... however it depends on coach... Barca has super offence... however poor defence. chelski does not have anything what is called beauty of football... I hate to watch them playing... it's very boring... I wonder how ski fans can cope to watch so many boring games dunring the season :nervous: :groan:
iīm not asking too much, just a little bit of excinting football sometimes.
i saw many live games of Mourinho when he was at FC Porto.
his style were not very different from what he has playing now in Chelsea, but i saw a team with 60% of possession of ball allmost every games..i must admit heīs a wonderful coach...
I want to see an ACM secure, with confidence, controling every matches..we have the players to do it...ir reminds sometimes Italy team..with so wonderful players and never assume the game; allways waiting for a chance to counter attack. i think itīs sad...
I think you're exagerating on the counter attack thing...
Sacchi's Milan mastered that like no one else before... although they knew when to play that way, and when to take the initiative...
Ancelotti's Milan has been creative most of the time... can't blame them for switching every now and then as he considers necessary...
I would also love to see Milan win 4-0 every game... but I don't ask for it, nor do I feel bad about winning 1-0, maybe tying a game every so often, nor loosing a game, that's part of football...
The important thing is to make it to the end...
Agree with Gio, not being the favorite (for once) can be a good thing... less pressure...
GRE-NO-LI
23-02-2006, 12:50
So what is it? You want us to flame you or not? :haha:
Well, it was intended to be only a joke, not to be interpreted literally.
I think it's a tad pessimistic, I think we're comparing ourselves to the milan of the last 2 seasons, which in my opinion was the best club side in the world by some distance. We should have won the last 3 champions leagues, this is the first season since we won it we have not been the best team in the competition.
ukrainian_CA
23-02-2006, 14:02
I will sound redundant but still will ask.
Has anyone watched del Horno's tackle on Messi and the whole incident?
What do you think of the red card as a result?
An exageration by Messi that the referee exagerated even more...
although this seems somewhat off topic, but anyway...
ukrainian_CA
23-02-2006, 15:05
An exageration by Messi that the referee exagerated even more...
although this seems somewhat off topic, but anyway...
It is an offtopic, however I brought it up as a remark to Goose's comment about the greatness of Barca's offense.
There is just one thing we need to get better in - RUNNING WITHOUT THE BALL!! did you see how Barca midfielders run, Chelsea players, even Juve aldough they lost! Im convinced we will beat Bayern and play in quaters, but if we move like this against Barca....huh.....
I will sound redundant but still will ask.
Has anyone watched del Horno's tackle on Messi and the whole incident?
What do you think of the red card as a result?
what are u saying?! ... theres no chance in hell that the tackle del horno did on messi wasnt a red... if that wasnt a red... the tackle before that was a red (when he almost broke messi's knees) ...
if there was a blue card... del horno deserved it!
zlatanov
24-02-2006, 15:57
My input on the off-topic topic :) - I don't think that the tackle was for a straight red card but I have to agree that in that earlier episode, Del Horno definitely deserved at least a YK for smashing his cleets into Messi's knee. IMO, it would have been a much less scandalous episode if the ref had shown Del Horno 1 YK for the "knee" episode, and another for the tackle he made on Messi in the 37th minute. But the agian, one could argue that if Del Horno already had a YK, he would have never made that second tackle.
All in all, I think Del Horno should have been sent off, as he was, but this includes both tackles, and also I think the ref showed poor officiating as he should have shown a YK for the "knee" moment and maybe that would have prevented the "body-check" from taking place, as Del Horno would have been much more careful then, and a YK at that moment would have calmed down the spirits in general, at least a little bit. Also, Messi really made a meal of that second tackle - he seems to have been taught all the ropes already, despite his young age ;)
Warro Bantan
24-02-2006, 17:13
Off topic...but this off topic topic is better than the original topic! :delol:
I dont care if Messi play-acted, please...why was del Horno rolling around on the turf almost as long?
The tackle was a red card offense, but the slo mo replays make it seem that all the Spaniard did was run into Messi...but few can see the fact that he kicked Messi, while the Barca player was airborne.
Plus, since he had gotten away with a surefire red card before, this one was only fair.
I hate to see simulation, but I am glad Messi rolled around...del Horno went overboard with his tackle, and hey, if Messi had to play-act a little, then so be it.
I receive at leat 3 idiotic tackles per game I play...(of course with no refs) and I only make the call for a foul once every 6 fouls or so...my point being...having been on the receiving end of illegal challenges, I completely sympathise with those who, like Messi, get rough, unfair treatment from opponents.
Which is why I was cheering when Etoo scored...I hate physical football...I love jogo bonito...like Cantana says in the ad...I love the beautiful game...not the stone-age play that now dominates the sport.
I will sound redundant but still will ask.
Has anyone watched del Horno's tackle on Messi and the whole incident?
What do you think of the red card as a result?
Maybe Messi exagerated a bit but the foul was for a red card no doubt about it.
Del Horno was not going on the ball he was going on the player but very rough and for that is given a red card,
ukrainian_CA
24-02-2006, 19:51
Maybe Messi exagerated a bit but the foul was for a red card no doubt about it.
Del Horno was not going on the ball he was going on the player but very rough and for that is given a red card,
No, no and no.
Do you sometimes make mistakes in timing tackles? The answer is yes, often if you are a lousy D-er.
1. del Horno was going to the ball. He timed it wrong, got burnt by Messi i other words.
2. He did not go for the player, see #1.
3. He was going tough , not rough. What do you do when you are about to collide with tall ca.85 kg body?
I have not seen the previous "tackle", so I admit I have no clue if del Horno
was targeting this one key player of oppnts.
No, no and no.
Do you sometimes make mistakes in timing tackles? The answer is yes, often if you are a lousy D-er.
1. del Horno was going to the ball. He timed it wrong, got burnt by Messi i other words.
2. He did not go for the player, see #1.
3. He was going tough , not rough. What do you do when you are about to collide with tall ca.85 kg body?
I have not seen the previous "tackle", so I admit I have no clue if del Horno
was targeting this one key player of oppnts.
No he wasn't going on the ball he only wanted to stop Messi nothing else and that's not just my oppinion a professional referee from Croatia and other countries agreed that was a foul for a red card, and i agree with them not beacause they are professional referees but because i feel the same way
Egoistka
24-02-2006, 20:50
I must admit that I'm really a bit to much pessimistic sometimes, so feel free to disagree with me whenever you want. That said, let's past to subject in question:
Seeing other CL matches of yesterday and today, it came to me the impression that our main rivals (with the single exception of ZOMBIE Madrid) are looking more livelier than us, playing with a whole lot more brightness and enthusiasm. Even Juventus, that made a flop on the final minutes, seems to have played with more grit and gusto than us, not to mention, of course, Barcelona and Arsenal. I guess we played in a rather burocratic fashion, that is to say, we have a solid display, but also lukewarm and lazy.
Well, feel free to flame me if you disagree!
You know, while I was watching Bayern - Milan, I was thinking that Milan has really poor performance, but when I watched other matches and highlights from some of them, I became really pesimnistic about Milan's future in CL this year. Even if we are threw this round, they are unlikly to make it threw next one (with the condition of present performance)...Something needs to be done, but what?!
ukrainian_CA
24-02-2006, 21:22
I receive at leat 3 idiotic tackles per game I play...(of course with no refs) and I only make the call for a foul once every 6 fouls or so...my point being...having been on the receiving end of illegal challenges,
..I hate physical football...I love jogo bonito...like Cantana says in the ad...I love the beautiful game...not the stone-age play that now dominates the sport.
Don't you also give 1 or more "idiotic" poorly-timed tackles a week?
Please, do not tell me that you are perfect. I hate physical football too.
But once in a while, I accidentally bump into players and they bump me too in all places, for the rest of the time I play "clean" and "jogo bonito" I hope.
I loved watching Ronaldinho slicing passes again even though some people say that he had gotten lazier since last year. I think those commentators (from football.ua) are biased towards Chelsea and the English game in general.
GRE-NO-LI
24-02-2006, 22:22
You know, while I was watching Bayern - Milan, I was thinking that Milan has really poor performance, but when I watched other matches and highlights from some of them, I became really pesimnistic about Milan's future in CL this year. Even if we are threw this round, they are unlikly to make it threw next one (with the condition of present performance)...Something needs to be done, but what?!
That's exactly the way I feel, Oksana... :(
No, no and no.
Do you sometimes make mistakes in timing tackles? The answer is yes, often if you are a lousy D-er.
1. del Horno was going to the ball. He timed it wrong, got burnt by Messi i other words.
2. He did not go for the player, see #1.
3. He was going tough , not rough. What do you do when you are about to collide with tall ca.85 kg body?
I have not seen the previous "tackle", so I admit I have no clue if del Horno
was targeting this one key player of oppnts.
u need to see the previous tackle... it was around 15 mins into the game and del horno had 1 possibly a career ending tackle that the ref didnt see and the other he ust ran into the ball... messi was near the touchline... what the hell did del horno think he could achieve out of that situation by running like a madman... even if he got to the ball, he would have had a corner against him and he would have easily injured messi while h was at it...
im not a biased person, or atleast i try not to be... this was a definite red card!
ukrainian_CA
24-02-2006, 23:08
u need to see the previous tackle... it was around 15 mins into the game and del horno had 1 possibly a career ending tackle that the ref didnt see and the other he ust ran into the ball... messi was near the touchline... what the hell did del horno think he could achieve out of that situation by running like a madman... even if he got to the ball, he would have had a corner against him and he would have easily injured messi while h was at it...
im not a biased person, or atleast i try not to be... this was a definite red card!
OK, I value your opinion.
So, was del Horno an incarnation of M. Materazzi?
Del Horno was toyed around by Messi every time for 37 minutes. The guy just could not stop Messi and tried to play dirty on a couple of occasions. When Messi made a fool out of Robben, Del Horno went with his foot like half a meter off the ground to an air-born Messi. The ball was behind Del Horno at the time so he could not have possibly got it. He was just trying to obstruct Messi and he did it a little to rough.
The ref also let Chelsea play rough after the red card. He did not give Barca a clear penalty on a handball from Makalele. That was definetly a penalty but the ref overlooked it because he gave a red card just 5 minutes before that. Pathetic Chelsea and Arrogant Mourinho got wat they deserved because they think that they are untouchable.
ukrainian_CA
25-02-2006, 00:43
Del Horno was toyed around by Messi every time for 37 minutes. The guy just could not stop Messi and tried to play dirty on a couple of occasions. When Messi made a fool out of Robben, Del Horno went with his foot like half a meter off the ground to an air-born Messi. The ball was behind Del Horno at the time so he could not have possibly got it. He was just trying to obstruct Messi and he did it a little to rough.
The ref also let Chelsea play rough after the red card. He did not give Barca a clear penalty on a handball from Makalele. That was definetly a penalty but the ref overlooked it because he gave a red card just 5 minutes before that. Pathetic Chelsea and Arrogant Mourinho got wat they deserved because they think that they are untouchable.
I get it now, from uefa.com serviced video it is hard to see all. I just wished they had a 2M+ baud bandwidth or something...
BaggioForever
26-02-2006, 10:59
tell me one thing baggioforever, do you like to see sometimes ACM games with your heart in your hands?! you must understand one thing: iīm a fan like all of you, but i donīt have responsabilities of playing...i donīt have a salary of 400/500 thousand per month!! yes, i hate to see some games when we always play in counter attack...Milan-juve was a great game, but why we didinīt play in the same way at Samp-Milan or Roma-Milan for example?
not only the results are important...our football style is also important..thatīs one of the reasons why the attendance of italians games went down (and the price of the tickets as well)
we should face every game "mano a mano", with no fear..i think all fans deserve that
who plays consistently beautiful football all the time these days like u described? Not even Barcelona plays the beautiful game all the time. Football is not just about playing fancy and offencing all the way ya know?
I dun agree with you saying football is not about results. Football is all about winning yet at the same time, playing the beautiful game should b a bonus that comes with it. And beautiful football doesnt always restrict to playing offensive. Sometimes playing defensive, looking at how the defence stifle out attacks. Now that can and am also part of the beautiful game. If u had saw how milan stifle out Bayern's attack in the 2nd half or how Italy played with 10-men against Holland in the Euro 2000 and still managed to win.
It is a spectacle for me to watch with confidence that our defence is coping well. To see that the defence is co-ordinating well with the flow of play. Hence , to say Milan plays a boring game is jus not justifying what Milan is really capable of.
Being a fan of Milan, instead of asking for them to win every match beautiful or not, are you saying you would rather they play beautiful football and lose? Every fans love their team to play beautiful football and win n you know that cannot always be the case. It is a courageous act to approach every game with no fear but that will lead to complacency. And that happens far too often at the most important of games. I would rather Milan play defensive (beautiful or not) and win. So be content with what you have because Milan deserves that.
GRE-NO-LI
26-02-2006, 22:29
Well... we are certainly having solid performances, make no mistake, but also very uninspired ones, with almost nothing in termos of entertaining value. Ok, someone can say, football is cold world of professional competition and lots of money, but we, the mere and simple fun, we didn' t like football as a business, we like it as entertainment, as a kind of performing art. Milan used to be a very entertaining side, and sadly we're missing that crucial dimension.
BaggioForever
27-02-2006, 00:02
Well... we are certainly having solid performances, make no mistake, but also very uninspired ones, with almost nothing in termos of entertaining value. Ok, someone can say, football is cold world of professional competition and lots of money, but we, the mere and simple fun, we didn' t like football as a business, we like it as entertainment, as a kind of performing art. Milan used to be a very entertaining side, and sadly we're missing that crucial dimension.
Obviously you have not been watching Milan's match recently. They played well overall against Bayern even though they conceded 1st. But overall, they are a spectacle to watch. Just see how Milan countered Bayern, the Bavarians just dont dare to venture forward anymore after we equalised and nearly capitalised on one of our counter-attacks. If this is not entertaining enuff, i dont know what is. :rollani:
Lastly, would you just stop comparing Milan to the previous years? Stop living in the past and come back to reality! This Milan is just about what you are going to get and live with for the rest of the season. So stick with it or leave it.
GRE-NO-LI
27-02-2006, 02:02
Sorry, I've posted a shamefully clumsy text, here is the corrected version:
_____
Well... we are certainly having solid performances, make no mistake, but also very uninspired ones, with almost nothing in terms of entertaining value. Ok, someone can say, football is a cold world of professional competition and lots of money, but we, the mere and simple fans, we didn't like football as a business, we like it as entertainment, as a kind of performing art. Milan used to be a very entertaining side, and sadly we're day by day missing that crucial dimension.
GRE-NO-LI
27-02-2006, 02:03
So stick with it or leave it.
Well, dude, I love Milan and I will NEVER leave it.
GavinMilan
27-02-2006, 02:57
Honestly, I can see why some of us are saying Milan is not playing entertaining football..... I know this is the sterotype and all, but of all the games I had been watching, CL is the most entertaining then it is all EPL games, except for the Blues, follow by mid-table Series A game. Real games are fun to watch, b.c when they lose, I just can't help but laugh at team, and when they win, they usually scores beautiful goals. Anyhow, my point is that, Series A is not an entertaining league. EPL is entertaining b/c it is fast. Actually mid table Series A games are quite fun to watch too.
My point is that, Milan does not play boring football, rather they are force to since opponents often defend instead of try to attack. And since, Milan is not a team known for its team speed, the game seems to be longer than 90mins. Still, as long as Milan win, I could care less.
I watch Milan plays b/c I am their fan, if I really want entertainment, I would watch Real, b/c whether they win or lose, it is entertainment in my eyes
Warro Bantan
27-02-2006, 09:10
Don't you also give 1 or more "idiotic" poorly-timed tackles a week? no I dont...its more like at least one per game! (But I have an excuse...I am an attacking player) :D...but seriously, miss-timing a tackle is different from going in, studs up, to hurt a player.
Please, do not tell me that you are perfect. Why? Didnt you know that I amperfect? :p1510: Sheesh...I thought every body knew! :D
I hate physical football too. As all talented players should.
I loved watching Ronaldinho slicing passes again even though some people say that he had gotten lazier since last year. I think those commentators (from football.ua) are biased towards Chelsea and the English game in general. I agree with you there.
ukrainian_CA
27-02-2006, 16:57
I agree with you there.
Just saw highlights of Barca5-1 thrashing of Real Betis .
The golden ball holder did inflict major damage in 4 out of 5 Barca's goals.
He was like a magician on the pitch - two deflections of the same guy going in :v408: Pity, though, that he will not travel to Moscow to play in a friendly against Russia this Wednesday.
My self, I do not play as often, twice a week if it does not pour like it is now.
Last month and last week were warm and dry here.
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