View Full Version : AC Milan vs. Barca (1/2 CL, 1st leg)
ukrainian_CA
05-04-2006, 15:51
18th or 19th?
I think the tie that plays on the 18th will play on the 25th.
But which tie plays which date?
Tobyr1974 was planning to book a flight to Milan...
Did he find the exact date of the game?
devoted_dm
05-04-2006, 16:17
Do we play the first leg at home? If that's the case, then.. well, crap. Anyhow, I'm looking forward to these matches, and I especially like that we'll be considered underdogs. It's been a while since the last time we were considered as such.
ukrainian_CA
05-04-2006, 16:18
Do we play the first leg at home?
Obviously yes.
I think if Anchellotti wakes up from his tactical comatosis and Messi isn't back, we should win this.The last three Barca game have nearly sent me to sleep.
I'm not sure if Toby did find out in the end, still i'm sure it'll be on the uefa site soon enough.
Are any of the Barca players suspended at all or one card away from suspension ? Lets hope some of our injured players have returned by then and also that Barca give our midfield more room to work.
sheva-gila
05-04-2006, 16:29
Are any of the Barca players suspended at all or one card away from suspension ? Lets hope some of our injured players have returned by then and also that Barca give our midfield more room to work.
i think Deco is suspended for others i dont know for sure i will check
I know Etoo was booked, so i was wondering if he picked up another at the San Siro if he would then miss the game at the Nou Camp ??
Milan_Mad
05-04-2006, 16:38
of course Eto would
Yes Deco is definitely out of the frist leg: don't like it that we have to play frist leg at home.
i wasn't sure if it was just 2 yellow cards for a suspension or 3 ...
Yes every 2 yellow cards is a suspension... Gattuso for example recived his third yellow card yerstaday but he still will play, but after the fourth he will be suspended again (he was already suspended once against Bayern).
And this fantasy football on Uefa.com is pure nonsense, or Uefa itself nonsense. Ronaldinho getting much more points than Sheva for each goal or assist, because he's considered as a midfielder. But than tell me why last year he recived Uefa best forward award, if he supposed to be in the midfielders category (Kaka won it). Last year we so many good strikers playing like Sheva, RvN (8 goals in 6 games), Crespo, Eto'o and more, and the guy that won it wasn't even a striker...how can it be? That just pisses me off, sometimes uefa administrators can be real morons.
Milan_Mad
05-04-2006, 16:58
Uefa are just so bias to Ronaldinho
I'm kinda scared for Milan cuz their playing is unstable. If in the game with Barca they really play like AC Milan does then Barca will be wiped out!
But if the same thing happens as in the game with Lion it will sure cost us some nerves...
18th or 19th?
I think the tie that plays on the 18th will play on the 25th.
But which tie plays which date?
Tobyr1974 was planning to book a flight to Milan...
Did he find the exact date of the game?
Milan-Barca is on 18th and do we play Inter on 15th if so that's really bad we could lose second place cause will be saving our players for Barca i hope not
Yeah Deco won't play the first game and that's good and if Messi doesn't play we could beat them easily but in Barcelona will be a real hell :sagrin:
yea yea you're right 2 yellow cards=suspension i just checked ;)
Milan_Mad
05-04-2006, 17:03
: i think 3 yellow cards=suspension Nah it is 2 mate
Let's all remember the 1994 UCL final...
Barca, managed by Cruyff was a heavy favorite, with Romario, Stoitchkov, Koeman, etc. and we won 4-0 in Athens...
Guys,is anyone going to be at Nou Camp perhaps?
Let me see if i got this right, because someone mentioned it....So, if we play first leg on 18th at home, we`ll play 2nd leg at 25th away?How sure are you?I just checked uefa.com and there is still nothing.(i think that if we play on 18th,2nd leg should actually be on 26th .If one team plays first on Tuesday, second time it`s on Wednesday and vice versa....Does this make sense at all?:confused: )
Anyway, i`m going to be in Barcelona from 22nd and i leave 26th in the evening....so if there is any chance our match will be on 25th,please, anyone, let us know.
Also if anyone is going to be in Spain at that time and is planning to go to away game pm me, it would be nice to watch the match with few more Milan supporters.
EDIT:
I`ve just found out, we play first on 18th at home and then 26th away. Bloody hell i cannot believe i`m going to miss it just for few hours......grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :depress: :crybaby:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/FixturesResults/round=2204/index.html
who is the favourite now? i think both, but thats my opinion, im sure the media will give Barça as a favourite. Anyway, thats better for us.
rahul.acm
05-04-2006, 18:37
Uefa are just so bias to Ronaldinho
really man uefa always licks his a$$. agreed he is a gr8 player but that fat fuk uefa president doesn't see any 1 except him. europe player twicE. actually if u see he plays a very physical game and often gets away from his fouls!
It could work out to be an advantage to play at the Sansiro first. If we dont concede, ie 0-0 or 1-0 then I fancy us to get an away goal making it tricky for them.
ukrainian_CA
05-04-2006, 19:04
It could work out to be an advantage to play at the Sansiro first. If we dont concede, ie 0-0 or 1-0 then I fancy us to get an away goal making it tricky for them.
It is always good to secure your net in the first leg, especially at home.
The question is how.
I agree with you completely, K77SH C, not conceding at home is the most important thing in the 1st leg. 1-0 would be great for me, and if we get a goal at the Nou Camp they will have to score 3 to advance. It would be a great scenario.
There are no 'favorites' for this match. At this stage of the Champions League anything can happen. The media may say Barca is stronger, whatever. The fact is that these are two very evenly matched teams. I hope to see some great, clean football, and hopefully we will come out on top.
FORZA MILAN!
you all have seen how the first leg is always more tense, more like a chess game, often ending 0-0...
we could do what Lyon was doing so well... score away... that complicates everything...
ukrainian_CA
05-04-2006, 19:08
Guys,is anyone going to be at Nou Camp perhaps?
Let me see if i got this right, because someone mentioned it....So, if we play first leg on 18th at home, we`ll play 2nd leg at 25th away?How sure are you?EDIT:
I`ve just found out, we play first on 18th at home and then 26th away.
That is so surreal if you are right. One tie has 8 days between two legs, while the other has 6 days. Weird!
ukrainian_CA
05-04-2006, 19:12
Hey, cheer up, dude!
The return legs seem to be played the same day, the 25th.
Check this out:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/scoreboard?league=uefa.champions&date=20060425&refresh=0&cc=5739
At least it says TBD for both legs.
I will be flying over Europe on the 26th too - far from Spain though.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/FixturesResults/round=2204/index.html
hitmannq8
05-04-2006, 19:19
hmm we have a bigger problem than playing at nou camp the 2nd leg.. we will be playing inter on the 15th, 3 days before the Milan-Barca game..damn :(
It is always good to secure your net in the first leg, especially at home.
The question is how.
:coffee:
If I had the sloution on how to stop Ronaldhinio, Etoo, Messi etc I would bottle it and sell it. Unfortunately I dont so we will have to leave the job to Carlo :dcool: and hope Rijkaard cant figure out how to stop our front 3.
ukrainian_CA
05-04-2006, 19:29
hmm we have a bigger problem than playing at nou camp the 2nd leg.. we will be playing inter on the 15th, 3 days before the Milan-Barca game..damn :(
True ... it is a big problem.
So, what do you think we should do?
Should we play 8-9 B-players and let Sheva and Kaka come in late to try to win or not lose?
Or should we not let them come in and hope for a grinding draw?
Or should we play 4-6 key players and go for it?
I do not think that anyone might suggest to go for 10 best players for starters.
We should send the youth team in to hand them a 6-9 hammering again :dcool:
I'd say give priority to the Barcelona game... play against Inter with just half the squad that will play against Barca...
Inter's only thing to feel about would be to beat Milan, so they will play with everything they got (which is not that much, hehe)
The thing we must worry about a lot, is that they dont injure any of our players, so, i think the best indication for our players is saty away from Materazzi!(and the others to).
It might not be that big of a problem if we save our key players agains Chievo this weekend. That would give us a long break as we have nothing during next week. Besides, the Inter game will be moved to that Saturday to give us an extra day of rest on Sunday. I am not that warried about 2 games in 4 games. Our players are fit and some of them just had months worth of a break(Maldini and Cafu). Inzaghi is full of energy while Stam hasn't featured that much lately either.
Beware Barca! Another 4-0 is on the door.
Bosniaco
05-04-2006, 21:20
I don't think that we have to many chances with the preformances like the onces against Lyon. I hope Messi does not play.
rahul.acm
05-04-2006, 23:26
I don't think that we have to many chances with the preformances like the onces against Lyon. I hope Messi does not play.
i completely agree with u. we have to realistic and not over optimistic! today eto'o played fukin well. ronaldinho as usual was amazing!
we gotta fukin prepare well!
"its a long way to the top if u wanna rock 'n roll....."
- ac dc
Georgian
06-04-2006, 06:45
yes ronaldinho and etoo are perfect, especially I am worried about our right flank of deffence can stam and especially costacurta handle brasilian?, I watched yesterday Barca benfica, ronaldighno was moslty playing on that side, creating a tsunami there, I think gattuso will have to work a lot to assits deffence on thet side if ronaldinho will play in tghe same manner with us.
and I hope etoo will get aother yellow on sansiro,
one more thing, if benfica managed not to get a goal at home we can do it also,
Cafu will probably be ready, but I think stam may be the better choice, while Cafu can play the derby. Gatusso is going to have to have the two games of his life to stop Ronaldinio. To be honest Im more concerned about Messi, Serghinio is quick enough, but is he clever enough. Maldini is clever enough, but is he quick/fit enough.
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 08:55
i completely agree with u. we have to realistic and not over optimistic! today eto'o played fukin well. ronaldinho as usual was amazing!
we gotta fukin prepare well!
"its a long way to the top if u wanna rock 'n roll....."
- ac dc
Yes we have to prepare for the game but what makes you think that your fears aren't a sign of pessimism rather than realism?
I think if Anchellotti wakes up from his tactical comatosis and Messi isn't back, we should win this.The last three Barca game have nearly sent me to sleep.
Inspiring comment Iana. It does much to help this team knowing we have a "comatose" manager. Thanks for your heartfelt words :rolleyes:
True ... it is a big problem.
So, what do you think we should do?
Should we play 8-9 B-players and let Sheva and Kaka come in late to try to win or not lose?
Or should we not let them come in and hope for a grinding draw?
Or should we play 4-6 key players and go for it?
I do not think that anyone might suggest to go for 10 best players for starters.
Interesting set of questions... can I call you Bill or something??? Writing Ukrainian_CA is kind of taxing. I like to get to know some members on a first name basis.
Anyhow... the questions you have set upon about our league games goes back to some of the comments I made about us conceding matches in league with no sight in doing so taking us to the Final of the CL and winning there. Again from back in the New Year the sentiment to throw Serie A away and concentrate on the CL was prevalent here in this forum. Obviously we took such sentiments after the Lecce game and with a miracle won against Lyon. The lineup against Lecce did not bear anything in relevance to making a difference in our win against Lyon. What happen is we made it a reach to win Lo Scudetto and now for second place a challenge to keeo as well. Now such thinking is going into the slippery slope effect to a point of us questioning losing more league points prior to a match of our lives vs Barca. When is this slip gonna stop??? My answer to the questions brought forward is that we in no way concede anything vs Inter as it gives us no indication of a win vs Barca. We seem to play better when we take one game at a time and not worry about it too much. Our play comes into serious question when we start to rationalize losing this match and saving players for another match only to come d@mn close to losing that as well. We can win both. That's up to all of our players starters and all. Mind you this is of the greatest adversity this team is facing. Whatever the results, I will say that I'm proud that they are trying because we are treading some serious rough water ahead. It is a lot to ask a team for. Not impossible but we all should accept the probables as well, be it a victory or a defeat and still appreciate the mental and physical toughness these guys are going through this final stretch. Good set of questions Ukraine_CA.
YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE BEST OR SO CALLED BEST TO BE THE BEST
As the famous saying goes you have to beat the best to be the best. That is what Milan have to do to overcome the seemingly garguantuan task of beating the heralded Barca. Personally, I strongly believe Milan will win the tie, and we will be in Paris and win the cup.
Firstly, let me start by what I see as Barca's sole strength, which led them to winning the La Liga, and has consequently garnered them praise as the team playing the most attractive football in Europe. Fluidity and chemistry in attack, and of course buck toothed monster; Ronaldinho. Milan fans don't get on my case yet, I know Milan possesses the same qualities. Most of you have watched Barca, and have seen the flair in attack, instigated be Gaucho; nevertheless the chemistry they exhibit in attack has been equally impressive. Benchmarked by Deco and the punk Iniesta, there is always constant movement when these guys are on the opponents defensive third, that it results in a short on goal, or generally a dangerous offensive play for the opposing defense to deal with. Simply put Deco, Messi, Eto'o and Ronaldinho operate as if they can read each others mind. And all this is transitioned thru that punk Iniesta or Van Bommel.
Now how do we cut off the supply chain in attack. I'll get to that later. But first, for those of you who are quick to point the minor frailities Milan has in defense, just watch a Barca game. Apart from Puyol who is always steady; watching Oleguer, Van Bronckhorst, Belleti, and Sylvinho defend can be a comedic affair .For those of you who follow key La Liga matches and have watched a fair share of Barca's games can attest to this. Before Puyol can steady the ship or Marquez can show some leadership, Barca's defence sees its fair share of missteps. And I believe their numerous weakness in defence is overshadowed by their offence, and the playground moves of Ronaldinho. So first and foremost we have to attack these guys furiously, when we play them at the San Siro. I don't see any defender on the Barca defense who is a match for Sheva and KaKa. I have watched most of Barca's meaningful games this season, and the loses they have had against Atletico Madrid (both home and away), Osasuna, and Valencia, have shown me how these guys can get beat. In the first game against Atletico Madrid at Vicente Calderon the game was played at a rapid pace, and Atletico matched Barca, wave for wave in attack, albeit a man down for most of the game. Petrov, Atletico's left wing midfielder was a thorn against Barca's defense,especially on the side where the hapless Oleguer had a torrid game. In the return leg, Petrov was just marshalling the game. Some may say oh! Atletico lost because they didn't have Ronaldinho or Eto'o, but to me that is a non-issue; Torres tormented Oleguer and co. And let me not start on their goalie Victor Valdez, just watch him! Whenever Atletico won the ball, the transition into the counter was swift and ferocious and as a result, Torres scored two goals.
While I'm not advocating sitting back and counterring, Barca's are atrocious in transitional defense,and that is one way where we can punish them in Camp Nou. We Rossoneri, know Milan can counter with the best of them.In the first leg I believe we will score 3 goals, maybe concede 1 goal or none at all. Guys we have to go for the jugular at home, because, I don't think they can stop us, and I know we could stop them.
Now this is my recipe to stop Barca. This is just a suggestion for friendly debate,and i Know most of you will chime in with other strategies. Most of you remember the year we won the champions league in 2002/2003 season, when the Milan renaissance was being praised for its attractive football, with Pirlo as the main Protagonist. The deep lying playmaker was reinvented. Don't lose me on this flashback quite yet, because it has some significance to my suggestion of stopping Barca's fluidity in attack.
As you guys remember that season when we were riding high, we went to Delle Alpi for a Serie A match, and I as watched that game I remember wondering how Marcello Lippi figured us out. What Lippi did was send out the hounds on Pirlo thru Davids and Tacchinardi. Pirlo suffered that night, there was no supply to the forwards, and through Juventus' physicality, our creativity and transition in attack was halted. As a result, some teams employed and have continued to employ this tactic. Nevertheless, I'll be the first to say that Pirlo has improved tremendously over the years, and knows better how to counter defensive pitbulls.
Back to Barca, I suggest we use a similar tactic, but I don't know how we could employ it with the players we have. STIFLE, STIFLE,STIFLE and be physical without being harmful on Iniesta, Van Bommel and Deco. If our midfielders, can cut of the supply chain to Ronaldinho on the left and Messi on the right, i would be very happy. Apart from Rino, who else in our midfield can employ the tactics Lippi used against Pirlo on that November 10th 2002 night. We could bring in Ambro, but at whose expense?My initial thought was, on the basis that the we have securely won the first leg, to start, Ambrosini instead of Pirlo in the second leg. This is just a thought. Another reason why I question my idea of constantly stifling Iniesta, van Bommel, Edmilson, or Deco(he won't play in the first leg) is the space Ronaldinho may get on the left hand side. It only takes one chance with man, and I will shoot myself, if this guy is left with room to run at Costacurta if he plays at rightback, God forbid! May be Cafu could be back.
Another thing Barca has is speed, and Eto's has speed to burn, but I trust our defense, and still believe, if we effectively cut of the supply chain to Ronaldinho on the left and Messi/Giuly/Larsson on the right we could be in business. If this is successful(cutting of the supply chain to Ronaldinho and Messi), this will lead to Ronaldinho wanting to do everything by himself, which is a fools goal, against an organized team like Milan. And if we have Ronaldinho venturing into being a lone ranger, his fellow teammates lacking ideas and ball watching, while Gattusso is tracking him. Game. Set. Match. Javier Mascherano of River Plate/ Corinthians and Argentina frustrated Ronaldinho, to the point where he lost his cool, and could have been sent off. I believe Rino is up to the task.
Defensively is where I think Milan should concentrate in preparation for this tie. The is offense is a well run Orchestra,and I believe it won't be a hard task for us to score goals home and away. I strongly believe we will win this tie 3-1 at home and tie in Camp Nou 1-1.
Finally, guys and gals, this is just my suggestion, and I urge you guys and gals to constructively offer your view of how Milan can win this match.Jim_UK, Warro Bantan, Zlatanov, Xudong, and all, I'm eager to read your suggestions on how to beat Barca!
Forza Milan.
IMHO if Milan could play like the last 15 inutes of the 2nd half against Lyon at San Siro...then Barca will have no chance to harm us at our home ground......
Honestly....I just realize when the comentator said that the reason for Carletto to bring Maldini in is for Swerginho to be able to rushing out front and that's the key point why Lyon's denfender were so busy stopping Sergio....
Now....the real Final game is just in front of us.
Whoever win the match will for sure be the Champion.....
Finally, guys and gals, this is just my suggestion, and I urge you guys and gals to constructively offer your view of how Milan can win this match.Jim_UK, Warro Bantan, Zlatanov, Xudong, and all, I'm eager to read your suggestions on how to beat Barca!
Forza Milan.
These are good members that you've named. I like their mature approach. I dont agree with all they say but this is the top guys on a very small list.
rahul.acm
06-04-2006, 11:19
Yes we have to prepare for the game but what makes you think that your fears aren't a sign of pessimism rather than realism?
dude the way we played against lyon was not good! and also barca has gr8 players. we all might be thinkng to score against them away but its going to be very difficult! this is not the barca sheva (dynamo kiev) played against or the barca which was managed by johan cruyff!
they have youngsters who can kick any1's a$$ messi is brilliant. puyol in the defence! also valdes is doing good too. eto'o yesterday was unstoppable. they will probably be the most difficult opponents to beat in ucl! they hold the upper hand considering the second leg to be played away! they played with such a pace against benfica they were cool and got the goals! one away goal of barca will jeopardize our chances! we have to get a 2 goal lead like arsenal and defend really well in the second leg!
the reason why I am scared is because it was very difficult for me to point out any1's name in our team who played well against lyon ( other than pippo) with that performance we will definitely lose against barca! but i am confident that carlo will work his magic! fingers crossed
These are good members that you've named. I like their mature approach. I dont agree with all they say but this is the top guys on a very small list.
Kui, I just want a constructive and respectful discussion towards the build up of the game. Yes the members you named are thoughtful and intuitive in their comments as are most people on the forum.
I'm just suggesting civility, and wanting ideas on how to trounce Barca like we did in 94.
Forza Milan
Rahul I see your point that most of Barca's top players are playing well, and Milan's performanve against lyon left alot to desired. But Carlo will right the ship, and we will prevail.
Like you... this is all I ask for. No regrets after the fact either. Thanks Rosso6
Finally, guys and gals, this is just my suggestion, and I urge you guys and gals to constructively offer your view of how Milan can win this match.Jim_UK, Warro Bantan, Zlatanov, Xudong, and all, I'm eager to read your suggestions on how to beat Barca!
Forza Milan.[/QUOTE]
Im not on the list. . . :(
Just kidding, how can we beat Barca??
Well, lets start like this..... We always need to move around tehmidfield and not leave any open space on the flanks, it wil not be easy and it will mean pirlo and seedorf will need to move and switch places a lot. Rino will play on Ronaldinho's side, along with Stam. On the other hand, Serginhoi and sedorf are going for Messi...
Now, if we rush too much or just sit back, it will not be good solution, we need balanced play. Quick passing to break through and make kaka-sheva-pippo play against their back four, they are not so good at the back 4. Good ,clean and fast passes through themiddle can open up Barca, like Zaragozaused to do on few occasions this season.
Also, their fullbacks are not as good as ours, and cant defend well, cant jump well. So, crosses on the far post can make some problems for them.
When Barca has the possesion, we just need to be patient, not to loose our heads and make yellow cards for nothing. ZOne marking can shut them down. 1 on 1 they are too strong.
Deco and Xavi will not play, that something right?? Motta,Bommel,MArquez are not better than pirlo,seedorf,gattuso, we just need to win duels ion thjose department, not let Barca dominate completely. WE cant leave any open space or m,ake mistakes in our half.
TO conclude, if we play with patience and power, with speedy passes and clever defence, we can beat them. Its important to make their defence suffer! Then Gio and Beletti cant go forward, and it makes them play slower.
rahul.acm
06-04-2006, 11:35
our priority shud be to keep our 'a' squad as fresh as possible.
Mrki, surely that quick interplay that Zaragoza used, made Barca suffer, and that is part of our bread and butter. Quick question, after we win the first leg, would be wise to man mark Ronaldinho with Gattuso and with help from Stam in the second leg?
In the second leg if use Ambro instead of Pirlo, let him Marshall the middle, and have Gattusso track Ronaldinho with help from Stam, would that be a wise tactic?
Milan_Mad
06-04-2006, 12:13
I like it how you are saying that Ambro if not Vogel should play in the second leg at the Camp Nou: As Pirlo has not preformed well once in this seasons champions league away from home. The frist leg is so important that we do not concede a goal cause if we do we will need to score at least 3 to take a good lead to the camp nou with the form Dida is in we need him at his best or we will concede as they will test him.
I hope that Rafa Marquez is out for both of the legs as he is Barca's best defender not Puyol and Sheva and Kaka can really torment Oleguer with there pace. Messi i think will be back as he was only a doubt for the Benfica game that is telling me he is close to fitness.
The key to our win is for Kaka, Dida, Gattuso and Sheva to all have great games as they will be the players that we will need the most in action. Am looking forward to a great game and a win for the Rossonero :djn:
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 12:43
dude the way we played against lyon was not good! and also barca has gr8 players. we all might be thinkng to score against them away but its going to be very difficult! this is not the barca sheva (dynamo kiev) played against or the barca which was managed by johan cruyff!
they have youngsters who can kick any1's a$$ messi is brilliant. puyol in the defence! also valdes is doing good too. eto'o yesterday was unstoppable. they will probably be the most difficult opponents to beat in ucl! they hold the upper hand considering the second leg to be played away! they played with such a pace against benfica they were cool and got the goals! one away goal of barca will jeopardize our chances! we have to get a 2 goal lead like arsenal and defend really well in the second leg!
the reason why I am scared is because it was very difficult for me to point out any1's name in our team who played well against lyon ( other than pippo) with that performance we will definitely lose against barca! but i am confident that carlo will work his magic! fingers crossed
you, and some other people, keep treating Lyon like their are some 3rd class team of messina's level. We have to finally realize that Lyon, along with Milan was probably the most balanced team at the 1/4 finals and they were for me the most dangerous opponent we could have gotten, even more dangerous than an inform Juve or Barca. Why, because Lyon don't lack in any department, they don't suffer from Juve's lack of imagination and plan B 'cause once they are behind, they just have no idea how to get back in the game, and Lyon don't have Barca's frailties in defense because barca not only have crappy players at the back, they are a team that doesn't know how to move back to organized defending once they have gone all attack, this was well pointed out by Rosso6, I think. You put Gattuso on Dinho, keep an eye on Eto'o, stiffle the creative midfielders like Deco, or iniesta, or van Bommel (they won't play all at once) and barca would be like a headless chicken. In lyon;s case who do you stiffle, who do you keep an eye on when danger comes in all forms and shapes and from all directions? yet, we beat that team fair and square and if they think they deserved more than a bon voayage in the 88th minute, well, that's their problem, they shouldn't have forgotten that it's Milan they are playing.
I honestly don't understand why people still think that just because we didn't beat Lyon like we beat Udinese or whatever team we went through like they were on a vacation, we are a team that's performing bad, playing idea-free and cumbersome football and have next to no chance of stopping the free-flowing barcelona, who beat but also suffered against a well organized team like Benfica but let's not forget who Benfica are - a team that's plwying it's first year under a good coach like Koeman and for the past 10 years have lived in the shadow of Porto; a team of nobodies, who only thanks to Koeman reached thus far in the CL. But still no matter how good a coach you are, you can't build a palace with ****-bricks, right. And who are Lyon? Well, all of Europe's so called ellite is after every single player, including the reserves, on their team ... forgetting that Lyon now isn't some ****ty French club that plays it's home games in front of 3000 hard working villagers but is already part of Europe's ellite and sell their players for 10s of millions of euros and they do it cause that's what they want to do and not because they have to do it trying to somehow fix their budget for the next year.
You say we played bad vs Lyon, well, let me tell you would have happened to barca if they played Lyon - they would be out of the CL, eating salsa and trying to figure out how the magical Dinho couldn't beat a team of French villagers all by himself. Well, i can tell them why - cause lyon is a team and not travelling circus that tries to wow the crowd with pointless and unnecessary tricks. Because Diarra and company would have taken Deco, Dinho and Eto'o out of the game right from the start and wouldn't even care who's who and who's not who.
Well, we did beat that team, we beat them and now they are the ones who are trying to figure out what just hit them. Was it a dance for us, no it wasn't but we beat them and that's what matters for would that have been barca in our place, they would have had their legs broken after dancing with Lyon, and not just get away from it with a couple of bruises here and there.
EDIT: on Barca having young players - well, so did manU but they were the quitest of all on the field. Off course our defense will have problems catching up with Eto'o, Messi, Dinho, Iniesta in a 100m race. But the idea of zonal defending is to not let that happen i.e. close the space down before they have had the time to take you on a race or something. Messi isn't quicker than C. Ronaldo per say, but we all know how useless he was against a slow, but experienced defence like ours. yeah, I would prefer a 30 yo maldini on the left vs Messi, but a 37 yo would still do the job.
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 13:14
On how I think Barca could be stopped, well I think several good suggestions have been made so far, especially by Rosso6 and mrki. What I could say that would be different is that i think you beat a team like Barca away and not at home ... actually, what I meant by "beat" was "eliminate", hence using the away goal rule.
For me the most important thing would be to not allow away goals at the SS, even if that means not scoring any for us - a 0-0 draw can be a deadly result at this level of football and this stage of the CL tournament. I think we will need to be patient and for me the best possible tactic against this Barcelona side is a X-tree formation, especially at home, with Serginho and Kaka behind Sheva. I don't have to tell you how quick and devastating their counter would be given Barca's problems to quickly regroup in defence once they have started one of their mind-twisting, 10min long attacking adventures.
We just need to be patient and let them play around the ball making them believe that they are in control of the game. But we need to do so without conceding them much space, especially in the vicinity of our PA- basically, what they call "keep them at bay".
I am not sure who's gonna miss the game from Barca but for sure Deco is out - too bad as I think he would useless when pressured by our midfielders. Probably messi will be in for the first game, but I would expect him to be easy pray for maldini/Seedorf on the left, especially with him being out for a month or so and won't be at his very best. Gattuso should be more than able to keep Dinho quiet but in case he misses his pray, I would like to see cafu on the right - for that reason we have to make sure that he gets his match fitness back in the remaining days till the game. I prefer cafu over Stam or Billy because if their's someone on this team who knows how Dinho plays, that's cafu.
I would probably start the game with Pirlo in the middle but in the later stages would introduce either Ambro or Vogel 'cause Pirlo tends to fall off after the 60th-70th minute. So basically, my idea is to have Sergio and Kaka behind Sheva but also moving to the wings when we defend, especially Sergio, so that Seedorf could move inwards to hel Pirlo and Gattuso, stiffle the creative heart of their midfield - van Bommel, Deco, Iniesta (I think Motta is injured and will miss both games, but could be wrong on this - not sure when I read this one). As others said, cut the supply from midfield, have Gattuso pay soem special attention on Dinho, and Nesta on Eto'o and Barca will have a hell of a time on the pitch. But above all be patient and don't forget that task #1 is to keep a clean sheet at home. I doubt we will see any high-scoring results in these games, so most probably it would be away goals that will make the difference in this tie.
Biggest problem for me is how do you play a X-tree without that Philosopher we have for a president making himself being heard, yet again, in front of the media ... just imagine what it would be like if we end up being eliminated ... crazy like hell.
Another major issue for me are two very stupid YK Sergio and maldini got themselves vs Lyon. Should we lose Sergio, the whole plan for swift counters changes and we will have to revert to a 2-men attack but this time we will miss Sergio's runs on the left ... hope cafu gets into full fitness by then.
Just incase that someone didn't want to read the novel above, can't blame them really :), here is my team:
Dida
cafu Nesta Kakha maldini
Gattuso Pirlo Seedorf
Kaka Sergio
Sheva
Edit: The team above would be best IMO for the home game at the SS, in Barcelona, I think we could afford to be more adventurous and play our usual formation with 2 forwards - Sheva and Pippo - as our goals would count for two over there.
hitmannq8
06-04-2006, 13:22
i think we must play Pippo again for his experience, and because he will be so important.. Barca have a bad goalie that always makes mistakes, and their defence isnt better than alot of teams we have faced.. this will be a game for Pippo..
bad news is that stam is out for 3 weeks and will miss both legs.. i really hope Pirlo will find his form sooner or later..
How do u know that Stam is out for 3 weeks? Is it official??
Milan_Mad
06-04-2006, 13:40
Jaap Stam is likely to miss the Champions League semi-final clashes with Barcelona
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/apr6l.html
Yup Stam is out which has thrown a real spanner in the works. Now if we have Cafu playing at right back we cant really afford to have Serghinio playing at leftback. Kaladze would be a solid choice given his good form allowing Maldini to tuck in with Nesta.
I agree, Serghinio should play upfront with Sheva, but it wont happen because Berlusconi wont allow it to happen. Hes playing aswel as anyone else though so he must start. The reason Iv put Seedorf on the right in place of Gatusso is I think he can keep Gaucho tired if he is told to like he did against Wiltord. I think we could keep alot of possesion with this midfield which wouldnt be possible with Rino. We may lose some energy though so I think Sergio should start with either Rino or Seedorf being sacrificed.
Cafu--Nesta--Maldini--Kaladze _____OR_____Cafu--Nesta--Maldini--Kaladze
-Seedorf----Pirlo---serghinio-_____________---Rino----Pirlo---serghinio---
------------Kaka------------_____________------------Kaka------------
-------Sheva----Pippo-------_____________-------Sheva----Pippo-------
Many of you think that Barca can cimply outclass Milan. This is a bunch of BS.
I remember how Milan played and I know how Milan can play. Remember the 1st half of last year's CL finals. Or how about the first 15 minutes of the Milan-Lyon game?
If the guys play like they can - beautifully and effectively Barca will be humiliated! No matter how Ronaldinho or Deco or whoever can play - they wont! because they wont get the ball!!!
:3band: I believe we can beat those basturds! :3band:
i think barca are a different team in the nou camp, i think ronaldinho needs 2 players on him, last thing we need is messi back, i just hope whoever is marking ronladinho doesnt give him the chance to touch the ball, his passes are scary, i also think we need to get a healthy win at the SS, like 2 or 3-0, make sure we dont concede, then we can counter attack with one striker upfront in the nou camp and hope to score an away goal
you all can predict how milan would play against barca by the Lyon games? that is rubbish IMO. Lyon is a very physical team that defended very very well. we have problems finding our way thru thus making us look bad. i am 100% sure milan would play 2 great games and goes thru against barca. i hate our team meeting very physical team like Lyon, all their players are physically much strong than ours and can bump our players off the ball. Playing barca would be a very different ball game altogether. Like some said, Lyon is probably the most difficult opponent we could have and we pass the worst so it can only get better.
it seem like a lot of people prefer us to play defensive at home to keep a clean sheet but i can't agree with that. We are at our best when we attack, thus giving up the best part of our game just to try to keep barca at bay doesn't sound right to me. so many people go crazy about barca attack, saying how well they are but forgot the fact that Milan have a attack that can at least match them or surpass them. if we play like a cowards at home, i am sure we would be punished for that. we should approach this game without fear and play like we should, which is to bring the game to them. we need to be confident and believe in our own abilities rather than worry about others.
i suggest we play our normal game with the same players, with nesta and maldini in the centre, we should be safe. i am hoping that cafu would be back to take the RB position, with Gatusso at the right side of MF, i ain't scared of Ronaldinho. The worrying part should be the LB position, with a speedy Messi down that flank, we need to use kaladze down there to stop him but we would have to give up serginho who have been playing really well and can cause a lot of problems for barca themselves. i am sure our attack would have an easier task after playing against Lyon. If our attack can breach Lyon's defense, we can breach any defense. Sheva, inzaghi and kaka should be able to come up with at least 2-3 goals minimum for the home game.
the previous time we played them at san siro last year, we won the game 2-1. The ideal result for us should be 2-0 but i predict a 2-1 or 3-1 to make the second leg very interesting.
They will miss Deco in the first leg, and have some players injured..
I still hope Stam will be back in time, such an important player, I think some one should open a thread dedicated to Stam, just to point out how significant he is to us. I think it's a mistake to let him go this summer, we won't find any replacement for him, simply because there isn't any. I just heard Real offered 14 mil for Chivu, I suspect Milan won't compete with that.
Like oh my god! what hell is rong whit you people? Barcelona aint better what the **** are u all barca fans tryng to act like milan fans here or what are u ?
They got ronaldinio,deco,eto ..so what? sheva-kaka-pippo and will kick there srry asses from here to cataluna or what ever there region name is.
2-0 at the san siro ,1-0 at camp nou,FORTZA MILAN !
rahul.acm
06-04-2006, 16:14
you, and some other people, keep treating Lyon like their are some 3rd class team of messina's level. We have to finally realize that Lyon, along with Milan was probably the most balanced team at the 1/4 finals and they were for me the most dangerous opponent we could have gotten, even more dangerous than an inform Juve or Barca. Why, because Lyon don't lack in any department, they don't suffer from Juve's lack of imagination and plan B 'cause once they are behind, they just have no idea how to get back in the game, and Lyon don't have Barca's frailties in defense because barca not only have crappy players at the back, they are a team that doesn't know how to move back to organized defending once they have gone all attack, this was well pointed out by Rosso6, I think. You put Gattuso on Dinho, keep an eye on Eto'o, stiffle the creative midfielders like Deco, or iniesta, or van Bommel (they won't play all at once) and barca would be like a headless chicken. In lyon;s case who do you stiffle, who do you keep an eye on when danger comes in all forms and shapes and from all directions? yet, we beat that team fair and square and if they think they deserved more than a bon voayage in the 88th minute, well, that's their problem, they shouldn't have forgotten that it's Milan they are playing.
I honestly don't understand why people still think that just because we didn't beat Lyon like we beat Udinese or whatever team we went through like they were on a vacation, we are a team that's performing bad, playing idea-free and cumbersome football and have next to no chance of stopping the free-flowing barcelona, who beat but also suffered against a well organized team like Benfica but let's not forget who Benfica are - a team that's plwying it's first year under a good coach like Koeman and for the past 10 years have lived in the shadow of Porto; a team of nobodies, who only thanks to Koeman reached thus far in the CL. But still no matter how good a coach you are, you can't build a palace with ****-bricks, right. And who are Lyon? Well, all of Europe's so called ellite is after every single player, including the reserves, on their team ... forgetting that Lyon now isn't some ****ty French club that plays it's home games in front of 3000 hard working villagers but is already part of Europe's ellite and sell their players for 10s of millions of euros and they do it cause that's what they want to do and not because they have to do it trying to somehow fix their budget for the next year.
You say we played bad vs Lyon, well, let me tell you would have happened to barca if they played Lyon - they would be out of the CL, eating salsa and trying to figure out how the magical Dinho couldn't beat a team of French villagers all by himself. Well, i can tell them why - cause lyon is a team and not travelling circus that tries to wow the crowd with pointless and unnecessary tricks. Because Diarra and company would have taken Deco, Dinho and Eto'o out of the game right from the start and wouldn't even care who's who and who's not who.
Well, we did beat that team, we beat them and now they are the ones who are trying to figure out what just hit them. Was it a dance for us, no it wasn't but we beat them and that's what matters for would that have been barca in our place, they would have had their legs broken after dancing with Lyon, and not just get away from it with a couple of bruises here and there.
EDIT: on Barca having young players - well, so did manU but they were the quitest of all on the field. Off course our defense will have problems catching up with Eto'o, Messi, Dinho, Iniesta in a 100m race. But the idea of zonal defending is to not let that happen i.e. close the space down before they have had the time to take you on a race or something. Messi isn't quicker than C. Ronaldo per say, but we all know how useless he was against a slow, but experienced defence like ours. yeah, I would prefer a 30 yo maldini on the left vs Messi, but a 37 yo would still do the job.
first of all who the fuk is telling that lyon is not a good team? they were and are a good team, capable enough to beat the $hit outta any team!
second, we did play bad against lyon! I'm comparing this performance to the one against bayern! on what basis are u trying to say that lyon wud have had kicked barca out!
third: u r saying we beat them comfortably! if inzaghi wudn't have scored th goal we wud out of ucl. his goal came at the 88th minute and we were very lucky to have the ball come on pippo's feet. we were 'LUCKY'
i think u r trying to brand me wid some1( u know who it is) u hate coz we think the same. i'm starting to know how this forum works!
I reques u not to ban me coz i know its all in ur hands. i want to stay a part of this gr8 forum forever!
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 16:28
first of all who the fuk is telling that lyon is not a good team? they were and are a good team, capable enough to beat the $hit outta any team!
second, we did play bad against lyon! I'm comparing this performance to the one against bayern! on what basis are u trying to say that lyon wud have had kicked barca out!
third: u r saying we beat them comfortably! if inzaghi wudn't have scored th goal we wud out of ucl. his goal came at the 88th minute and we were very lucky to have the ball come on pippo's feet. we were 'LUCKY'
i think u r trying to brand me wid some1( u know who it is) u hate . just because i have a different mentality. i'm starting to know how this forum works!
First of all, I am not trying to "brand" you with someone, and no I have no idea who you are referring to. If the "some other people" part got you to think so, then fall back on earth and stop thinking that someone is out there to make you look bad on purpose or whatever nightmares you might be having. Those "some other people" are basically 3/4 of the people here who think that we have to have a hurricane-like performance against even one of the strongest teams in Europe at the moment, and if we don't, then we are crap and Barca will roll all over us. I was referring to all those people and not one single person, so stop thinking you are being stalked or singled out or whatever ... if it makes you feel special, be my guest, otherwise stop fooling yourself.
Then, I am not sure what is that logic of yours, and not only yours, that says that Milan has to beat with an amazing performance every single team out there, even if its a very, very strong one. Comparing perfomance vs bayern with that vs Lyon? Look, if that's your logic then I guess we don't have anything to discuss here 'cause comparing different games and opponents, each of whom is strictly unique, simply makes no sense. But then again, what makes you think that in that 4-1 win vs bayern we did play the best Bayern team, isn't possible that they just had a bad day and that's why the dif in class was so obvious?
And in the end, where did I say that we beat Lyon "comfortably"? I would love it if you show me that before putting words in my mouth or trying to distort the meaning of mine.
Peace
lol lots of first of all:))))))))
Well first of all u should know that footbal is about 90 minutes +injury time a game ,so u have the right to score in any minute .
So second of all im sleepy.
Third:good night:)
Hottie i like your optimism, shame the real world doesn't work that way :D
Stam is out for the next 2-3 weeks according to Channel4, i'm sure there'll be a more detailed report on the official site tomorrow. That's a huge blow for us, especially if Cafu isn't fit either.
I strongly believe most of the people in this forum want and more so believe Milan will win the tie against Barca. Discusssion is based on how best we can beat them. Any team that makes it to the CL semi final are no slouches.
As with most people on this forum, I believe we played the next best team(Milan being #1 and the best of course) in the Champions League in Lyon. And i agree with most of you that had Barca met Lyon, Lyon would have handed them a footballing lesson.And guys and gals, Milan will not play Barca like we played Lyon in the second leg.
What we have in Barca and Milan are two very well matched teams, in terms of style of play and by virtue of useless stats which I was able to identify. Below are the positions of both Barca and Milan in their respective leagues:
OVERALL HOME AWAY
GP W D L GS GA W D L GS GA W D L GS GA GD P
1 Barcelona 31 21 6 4 70 27 12 3 1 41 15 9 3 3 29 12 43 69
OVERALL HOME AWAY
GP W D L GS GA W D L GS GA W D L GS GA GD P
1 Juventus 32 24 7 1 61 20 13 3 0 29 6 11 4 1 32 14 41 79
2 AC Milan 32 22 4 6 70 26 14 1 0 41 11 8 3 6 29 15 44 70
Stats are unimportant in games like Semi finals, but i just wanted to point out how almost even the teams are. Though I think we have an added advantage in experience, defence and midfield.
By the looks of the league schedule, Carlo is stuck between a rock and hard place. Naturally with the Champions League being more important, I wonder how and whom he will play against Inter, the weekend b4 the big tie.
By the way Zlatanov, I dig your Xmas tree formation; however, what if instead of using in the first leg, employ it in Camp Nou(believing we have a secure 2-0 or 3-1 win at the San Siro), when we can dominate and stack the midfield and hit them quick on the break.
Personally my point of view isn't the tactical side of how we differed in playing Bayern, Lyon or how we'll line up against Barca. My thoughts are on how badly we played, how we gave the ball away with needless passes and how the opposition wasn't tracked or tackled fast enough. Both of these things have nothing to do with tactics or the opponents, it's just down to poor football.
For instance there were times when a defender was passing to a midfielder and the midfielder was instantly tackled. Now that isn't the midfielder's fault, that's the fault of the defender for playing him into trouble in the first place. These things should happen because the defender is at the back and can see everything in front of him, so he should know what is a good pass and what isn't. To some it'll seem a small thing, but to me it's not something an experienced player should keep doing.
rahul.acm
06-04-2006, 17:03
to zlatanov:
i misread ur post regarding the the level of comfort we beat lyon with (I apologize for that)
how do i gather attention with that post? even if i do, its negative.
truce hah
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 17:17
Personally my point of view isn't the tactical side of how we differed in playing Bayern, Lyon or how we'll line up against Barca. My thoughts are on how badly we played, how we gave the ball away with needless passes and how the opposition wasn't tracked or tackled fast enough. Both of these things have nothing to do with tactics or the opponents, it's just down to poor football.
For instance there were times when a defender was passing to a midfielder and the midfielder was instantly tackled. Now that isn't the midfielder's fault, that's the fault of the defender for playing him into trouble in the first place. These things should happen because the defender is at the back and can see everything in front of him, so he should know what is a good pass and what isn't. To some it'll seem a small thing, but to me it's not something an experienced player should keep doing.
I have to disagree with you Jim. It's true that from one game to another we could see a better or a worse, less concentrated Milan side but, ultimately, a team plays as good or as bad the opposition lets them to. I am sure that the Milan side from Tuesday would have been just as successful and imposing on the Bayern side we met 2-3 weeks ago. And I am sure that the Milan that beat Bayern 4-1 would have had very much the same problems as the one on Tuesday.
We made a number of mistakes on Tuesday, especially in defence in the first half, and we ourselves created lot's of opportunities for Lyon. However, let's be more objective on that - Lyon players were like hawks on every Milan player that played with the ball or was even close to it. Everyone was closed down by 2 Lyon players and this is what made out players nervous and made them make foolish mistakes. Against Bayern, there was no such thing - spaces were more than ample all over the field and our players were left to operate as they wished and be the first to reach the ball, most of the time. And I believe that we just happened to play Bayern on a bad day they had. IMO, was it another day, another Bayern would have played us and most probably would have made life much more difficult for us.
Comparing how we played vs bayern and vs Lyon is not just comparing us vs two different teams, two dif football phylosophies, but more importantly it's comparing two absolutely unique situations, two very, very different games and that just makes little sense. What I mean is that if Bayern plays Lyon now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if bayern is the final winner and be so with ease. Yet comparisons and common sense indicate that if we managed to beat Bayern with 4-1, pretty comfortably at that, and we managed to beat Lyon only in injury time so to speak, then Lyon should be able to defeat Bayern ... but that's not how football in real life works for every game is influenced by an enormous number of different factors and that's what makes it strictly unique. How we play/perform (read concentration, stamina, etc), is only one of those factors, just one of many.
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 17:24
to zlatanov:
i misread ur post regarding the the level of comfort we beat lyon with (I apologize for that)
how do i gather attention with that post? even if i do, its negative.
truce hah
you don't need to apologize for anything. And that post was not aimed at you personally but at the idea that we should fear Barca or whatever the point was. I quoted your post only because it was the closest one at hand :).
All I want you to understand is that I am not singling you out or anything like that. There are a lot of people who enter in arguments over here and it happens to anyone and all the time. My phylosophy about these things is that just because you disagreed with someone over something and maybe some heated words were exchnaged, I don't see it as a reason to "follow" someone, stalk him/her, attack him/her or whatever just because once upon a time we had a "scuffle" so to speak. Nor am I ignoring anyone's posts no matter how "bad" the scuffle was ... I say this because this is a common tactic used here ;).
I have said before and I will say it again - I judge and attack posts, not people ... and even alex22 doesn't make exception to that although he is having a hell of a time figuring that one out :ilol: There isn't a single person here I agree with ALL the time, just like there isn't anyone I have disagreed with ALL the time. Peace
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 17:42
By the way Zlatanov, I dig your Xmas tree formation; however, what if instead of using in the first leg, employ it in Camp Nou(believing we have a secure 2-0 or 3-1 win at the San Siro), when we can dominate and stack the midfield and hit them quick on the break.
That makes a lot of sense. Still, I, unlike others, don't think that this tie will be solved by one team outscoring the other by a big margin - I don't think we or Barca could get a home win of 3-0 or similar. Should something like that happen it would be down to one team having an incredibly BAD day or a mistake(s) from the refs, or some other factor that would be difficult to predict.
Given all things normal, I think it would be away goals that will decide the tie and that's why I prefered a X-tree for the home game.
Plus, I think barca at Nou Camp would be difficult to contain as they would rush forward in numbers. I think the best defence for a situaton like that is offense and a 2-striker system would make keep them busy at the back and won't let them commit large numbers in attack.
I hear u Rahul, I'm right here brother... lol
Who is going to ban u? Chill man...
i think u r trying to brand me wid some1( u know who it is) u hate coz we think the same. i'm starting to know how this forum works!
Finaly!!! Some understanding...
Wow, all these heated discussions and great posts, and matchday is still 2 weeks away...
I like what hottie said about football being 90 minutes + injury time. Some people at school told me Milan was lucky for scoring so late. Yes, we were somewhat lucky, but a football match is 90 minutes, not 87!
What most conerns me is about the Barcelona match is the Inter match. Obviously the Champions League is more important, but 2nd spot in the Serie A could be at stake which could save us a headache with the Champs League qualifiers. And there is also pride. Can you imagine losing to Inter 2 times in a season? For Inter fans it would be the best moment of their lives, which is kind of pathetic, considering we've beaten them about the last 8? times before. This isn't about Inter but I would definetely love to see a victory, for pride and for psychological reasons as well.
The most important goal for the match vs. Barca at the San Siro will be keeping a CLEAN SHEET. Even if we don't score at home and don't allow any goals, 1-0 at Barca an we're through. 1-0 at home would be a perfect result for me, then a goal at the Nou Camp and Barca need 3.
Like Zlatanov, I am sick of some thinking Barca is unbeatable. We did get past Lyon, one of the best organised teams in Europe. And who cares if it wasn't pretty to watch? Are we not allowed to have a scrappy victory? Barca is a good side, but how are we worse? Hopefully Carlo will take care of all motivation (For my matches Queen's We Will Rock You always seems to motivate me :5guitar: )
This will be a great semifinal matchup, my heart will probably not beat for the whole game. Anyways, FORZA MILAN!
P.S. Rahul, you are relatively new here. Don't worry, there are usually tons of arguments, most of the time no one gets banned. Don't take it personally, sometimes it is intersting and good to argue ;)
zlatanov
06-04-2006, 18:01
I hear u Rahul, I'm right here brother... lol
Who is going to ban u? Chill man...
Finaly!!! Some understanding...
well, unlike you, Rahul, some people do need to feel important and for them this is the only way.
Sash, don't you have more important matters to attend to?
Cut with all this philosophies and tactical bullsh*t... U are saying that the reason that we played bad against Lyon is because on every our player they had two, and against Bayern we had plenty space to act. Well man it's not an explanation, it's like u'll say "we lost because the opponent scored more goals". Did Lyon had 22 players on the pitch?? I don't think so... And cut the crap that u attack only posts and not people, u insulted me personaly many times.
We were totaly outplayed by Lyon, and we only won because we were lucky. We looked good the first 20 min in france, only because Lyon was afraid and took their time to start playing. And that subs "that turned the game" or whatever, didn't turn anything. Pirlo was complete sh*t and that's why he was substituted and Ambro didn't help much. As I already said Serginho did his best moves before Maldini entrence, and after Maldini entered the game our left flank creat NOTHING!!!!!!! We played last 10 minutes mostly through Costacurta (kind'a reminded me Pancaro against Deportivo), and both goals that was scored in the dying minutes were thanks to luck (one after desperate long ball and second thanks to awful mistake). People here don't realize how important Stam is, his absence was crucial both against Lyon and Juve few weeks ago.
Through out the game we failed to produce any pressure, I couldn't believe to see lyon holding the ball and passing it easily in the midfield like they are playing against Tolouse or something in the french league. We were crap, Serginho made 2-3 good moves in his flank and that's it!!!! That mostly the only thing we had to offer in attack.
Our midfielders looked helpless with the ball, afraid to approach the centre circle because there were like 3 lyon players waiting. So cut the cr*p like u are some great tactitian, no need in those long posts of yours where u are explaining the subs and how we should play Barca.
We need two main things for Barca game: to revive our right flank with Cafu or Stam, and we need to get our midfield back in shape. That's the reason we looked so overran by Lyon, cause we were slow and there wasn't enough movement in the flanks. 6 out of 8 goals we scored in 4 last matches in the CL were assisted from the flank (that long ball by kaladze in 88 min may considered as from flank), it just shows u how important to play with wings. And how do u get that? By pressing in the midfield making the opponent to concentrate in the centre and creat free space in the flanks. So Stam or Cafu return will be crucial.
I think we are (at least slightly) stronger than Barca on paper; they have Ronaldinho, Messi and Eto'o as their most lethal weapons and we are as strong as they are in this department. As for midfielders, Deco's ban is really good for us, as he is the true unsung hero in Barcelona in my opinion, we should try to utilize that to the utmost. Pirlo kind of worries me, as he hasn't been in top form recently, and we don't have a good replacement for him, so substituting him basically means a change of tactics. (Vogel/Seedorf/Gattuso/Ambrosini can play in that POSITION, but not the ROLE, maybe Rui Costa is the closest one, but I am not sure he can be relied on). Our defense is much better than Barcelona's, even with Puyol; and Dida, half of what he used to be, is still better than Valdes. :) And what's the most important, Ancelotti is better than Rijkaard. (A lot of you may disagree with me, but I always like Ancelotti a lot. :D)
The key to success is not really a secret. Gattuso and co should concentrate on neutralizing Ronaldinho; I am not sure of our disciplinary status, but some yellow/red might be necessary sacrifice. I am hoping that Maldini can contain Messi; or through Serginho's fierce attacks. Stam's injury will be very detrimental to our defense, and I am hoping that he will recover as soon as possible. Somehow, I fear that if Cafu plays, we might have big problem in his zone. :p1510: If Ronaldinho turns out too easy to be taken care of, Gattuso should spend his extra energy to provide Pirlo with more help so that Pirlo can be free(r) from hassles from Barcelona midfielders, whoever will be assigned to bodyguard him.:D
We need to get the game under our control as soon as possible; as Barcelona is a young team, we can make everything easier in possibly the first 20 minutes; but if they have their game, it will be harder to predict. Ancelotti may need to make some VERY EARLY and VERY BOLD changes to get the game back to the right track, which doesn't seem to be his style though.
I am confident that we will qualify, and if we don't concede any goal in the first leg (0-0, 1-0, 2-0 are all VERY good results), we will definitely go to Paris. We are much more experienced than Barcelona, and at this stage, experience is the most important assets.
I can only think of so much right now. :) Forza Milan! :3band:
hitmannq8
07-04-2006, 01:05
Its not nice to see every1 over confident, but its also nice to see any pessimists..
Seeing as italian always love statistics, here is some bad news:
in the ancelotti era (well since 2002-03) here are the games that we played home first, then away in knock out stages
02/03:: Semifinal:: Milan 0-0 Inter, Inter 1-1 Milan
03/04:: Quarterfinals:: Milan 4-1 Depor, Depor 4-0 Milan
04/05:: Quarterfinals:: Milan 2-0 Inter, Inter 0-1 Milan (we were then given a 3-0 win)
04/05:: Semifinals:: Milan 2-0 PSV, PSV 3-1 Milan
We really should not count the Inter games because it is our home stadium as well. We really struggled badly in the away games against Depor, and PSV.
I hope Milan will not let the heads go as especially this season, our form isnt that consistent away from home.
Georgian
07-04-2006, 01:14
What a great posts!:) an long posts:)
Let me express my opinion about how Milan should play with spanish.
Firstly, the middle 3 players of barca especially without deco are not as strong as the front 3. Our goal should be first of all make sure that ronaldinho eto'o and messi will not have enough balls from them, gattuso pirlo and zeedorf must take care of it, so that ronaldighno wil have to play back to distribute the ball and bigan attacks himself, so if he moves from the front line to midfield it will allow our deffenders especially costacurta :( to breath more freely. I think it is very important issue , we should force this crazy brazilian to think about orginizing attacks not being on the top of it and fo this reason we must lock barcas middle 3.
another important point is that kaka pippo and sheva have to be active to lock in deffence 4-5 barca players so that their flank deffece will not have chance to support atacks, this will make barca slow and once again give releif to our flanks.
and one more thing, I think kaladze nesta couple should not be splited, somebody said we should use kakha on the left, no way!, this centre deffence works pretty wel so far so lets keep it. my startin eleven is:
dida
Costacurta Nesta Kaladze Serghino
Pirlo Gattuso zeedorf
Kaka Shevchenko Inzaghi
First, we have overcome a German champion, and then a French champion, and now the Spanish champion. It is interesting to note that Milan has been facing one of the most difficult CL games this years and, as one may expect after Istanbul, Milan had difficulty in winning the group (but Milan did eventually topped the group).
To contain Barca, I believe that there are two ways:
1) The team has to work as a team. Players have to run and move around, cover for each other, not just Gattuso running around and Ambrosini trying to take down everyone. The team has to work as a team and cover spaces. Be alert and concentrate.
2) Play a possession game. Lyon is different from Barca in the sense that Barca may not be able to pressure Milan as much as the French has done. One reason is that Barca players are a lot more attacking and may not feel comfortable in doing what Houllier said, "We need to force them from the defensive line". It's easier said than done, to be honest, and Barca may not have trouble doing that.
To contain Milan for Barca:
1) Just pray.
2) Pray more.
3) Pray hard. :)
J
U are saying that Barca's midfield is not too strong, and that's bull. Let me remind u that they totaly neutralised Chelsea, a team that was considered as one of the toughest in the midfield (with players like Lampard and Makalele). Motta, Edmilson, Marquez and Deco (who'll play only the second leg) are very tough and hard players and they can make things very difficult for us.
I still think it's up to Milan, we already outplayed hard midfields before this year (Juve, Bayern), but it's all depends what Milan will we see. And I believe that some of Barca midfielders have injuries, that should make things more easy for us.
I think if all players give their 100 percent it will be in our hands, but in football u can't ever know.
Hi all there ... No matter what the outcome with Barcelona will be, I hope Milan take some lessons of the mistakes and difficulties they have been facing lately, we should make so many changes in our defense and we need to reinforce our mid-field with one top signing.
Any one here knows anything about Milan's youth ? I am under the impression that Milan has been lagging in this field lately...any input would be appreciated.
Back to Barcelona game, Milan will have to fight it hard this time, mistakes are not allowed this time, Costacurta lacked so much confidence lately in handling, controling and passing the ball, I hope Cafu and Stam will be fit though I doubt it, it will be tough against barcelona with our late form and Gilardino not helping at all. Kaka was neutralised against diarra and Kaladze also showed some moments of hesitation that were dangerous.
It would be interesting to see if Milan wins, I am curious about how would this happen anyways.
ck_ian69
07-04-2006, 11:25
Hi all there ... No matter what the outcome with Barcelona will be, I hope Milan take some lessons of the mistakes and difficulties they have been facing lately, we should make so many changes in our defense and we need to reinforce our mid-field with one top signing.
Any one here knows anything about Milan's youth ? I am under the impression that Milan has been lagging in this field lately...any input would be appreciated.
Back to Barcelona game, Milan will have to fight it hard this time, mistakes are not allowed this time, Costacurta lacked so much confidence lately in handling, controling and passing the ball, I hope Cafu and Stam will be fit though I doubt it, it will be tough against barcelona with our late form and Gilardino not helping at all. Kaka was neutralised against diarra and Kaladze also showed some moments of hesitation that were dangerous.
It would be interesting to see if Milan wins, I am curious about how would this happen anyways.
i agree...both teams are so evenly balanced that the matches could go either way. even if we lose, there is no shame losing to a team like barca..they are really a great side just like us..
so just relax, chill and eat popcorn...the match is a good advertisement for the beautiful game..top class..
Don't compare Barca to Milan, because we have class.
Barcelona players are morons, arrogant and... they don't respect their opponents. I simply don't like them. I can't stand Deco, he always play dirty and arguing with the referee (after u see him clearly crashing some poor guy to pieces, they show u him protesting with innocent and amazed face every time). I don't like Ronaldinho, because he is very stupid guy... every time he takes a free kick or penalty, he is making that serious "philosof" face like he is about to make history... can't stand him. And what about Eto'o?? Same idiot... And their captain Puyol that supposed to be their spiritual leader, well he is one of the biggest morons there. I can't stand their little dramas, all the little stories they creat to draw an attention, or when after every unsuccesfull play Ronaldinho claps his hands and motivate his teammates even if they are leading 3-0. I mean if I was a football player, I don't think that I would wanted some moron applauding and encouraging me every step I make. Especialy when he is another player just like me, who he think he is?? So I made a bad move, leave me alone... like it's all about him, like he is pushing his team forward. The man that fits this team the most is Mourinho, same stupid clown that likes attention.
No man, don't u ever compare us with that circus. That doesn't mean we are going to win, but it's not the most important. I realy want Sheva to stay in milan so I won't have to change clubs, Milan is the best team in the world.
There are some really good points being made in hewre, I can see we are all dead serious about winning this thing! And it should be this way always! Someone said we need to prevent their 3 players in the middle to pass to mesi and Ronaldinho, thats true, but what is even more impoetant is to play our game in the middle and make Barca suffer as much as we can do it. I dont think Cafu will be quick enough to play 1 on 1 with Dinho, and Gattusoi has a yelllow card already, thats bad situation. On the other hand, it would be gfood tzo majke messi cover for serginhoi more than serginho for messi. That way we can rest seedorf more and let him to to the middle and hold up ball so our formation can stabilize in the moments Barca is pressuring, and there will be such moments.... Our first task needs to be an empty net form Dida, and we can always score a single goal in San Siro. 1-0 would be a brilliant result.
my team...........
.................dida.........
cafu...nesta....maldini...serginho....
..............pirlo..............
...gattuso.........seedorf
----------kaka-----
....sheva..........
..................pippo.......
Cafu will play more defensive than usual, but with wisdom! :) We just need to be tight in the middle, and make our 3 up front play against their backline - that is the key. Serginho can always pass oleguer ,so can KAka against motta or whoever plays their DM in this game. Not to mention Pippo and Sheva.
So, Barca has something to be afraid about, but so do we. Just keep it mooving all the time and do not looks patience aven in the last minutes of the game.
sorry for misstiping some words, im somehow always in hurry in here.
Whata a cracker will it be, if Gila score the goal that will take us to the final...
hey, it could be, he could be, for once, our Jon Dahl Tomasson... entering the game when we need a goal, by any means necessary, and getting it...
doesn't have to be pretty, just put it in the goal...
then we would go back to all those Anti-Gila threads and say who is who...
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 13:15
I think if all players give their 100 percent it will be in our hands, but in football u can't ever know.
Sash22, can you explain to me why you annoy me so much?
What??? What did I do now?? lol hahaha
U must be kidding me... right?
Gila scoring a goal that important would just send his confidence sky-high. After that he will not stop scoring in the Champions League (until it is over, of course)
But don't compare him to Jon Dahl, I hope Gila will be much, much better than him.
Tomasson may have scored some important goals, but in the long run he was incostisent and ended up being just another average Sheva striker partner.
If that happnes, Anything bad I have said about Gila you can use against me, and I will admit I was 100% wrong.
If I seem to be preparing that I was wrong, it is because I have a feeling that Gila will score at the San Siro at the end to give us a 1-0 victory, and that will end up being the decisive goal that sends us to Paris. That would be too amazing...
zlatanov
07-04-2006, 13:22
Great news - The Milan derby has been moved to Friday, 14th in order to give us an extra day to prep for the Milan-Barca game on Tuesday, 18th. It's on the official site and not only.
Yesterday, I read on calciomercato that Barca are trying to do the same for their game vs Villarreal, I think, and since both sides are interested in the move, chances it will happen, if it already hasn't.
Well, if this depended on the cigini in any way, a big thanks from us :)
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 13:22
What??? What did I do now?? lol hahaha
U must be kidding me... right?
Nothing.
I just caught you lying ... again.
You wrote yesterday that you are not the same guy who is Sash22.
Today you replied to my remark to "Sash22". Aniother day - another lie?
No offense, just wanted to clear things out...
Finally the sun is out, we had miserable 5 weeks of rain.
I am putting on my yellow-n-blue #7 jersey to play in an hour. C ya! )))
CA: I am putting on my yellow-n-blue #7 jersey
...and to think that u are not a real ukranian.
I am putting on my yellow-n-blue #7 jersey to play in an hour. C ya! )))
Nice colurs! :v408: And number 7 my favourite number.
I don't think his shirt is Guillermo Barros Schelotto, sorry... haha
I got the same jersey, Ukraine #7, can you guess the player? :D
I'll post a pic of me wearing it in the photo thread later
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 13:57
...and to think that u are not a real ukranian.
What's your point?
I love Sheva, I support my country of birth,
the country of my birth was called the USSR, btw.
SHOULD I repeat?
I am not and never have been a real ukrainian.
I have not had a Ukrainian citizenship, ever.
I am not and never have been an american citizen.
I might become one if I decide anytime now for convieniency, but
that is NOT YOUR BUSINESS.
Sash, stop picking on personal details, dude, you gain nothing from that.
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 13:59
I got the same jersey, Ukraine #7, can you guess the player? :D
I'll post a pic of me wearing it in the photo thread later
Seen my picture? my jersey is of training colors (neither home , nor away uniform) I guess
Are here some ukranians that are actually still in ukraine??? But it's nice to see when people aren't forgeting where they come from, I guess there is no substitute for childhood even not the american tall and shiny skyscrapers...
Got a little bit sentimental here, sorry.
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 14:00
I don't think his shirt is Guillermo Barros Schelotto, sorry... haha
Hey, Santiyago, have you had as much rainy days as us in March.
We got deluged with 24 rainy days in 31 days of March. This all-time record stunk.
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 14:02
, I guess there is no substitute for childhood even not the american tall and shiny skyscrapers...
Got a little bit sentimental here, sorry.
Man, you are asking for it again... I don't care, nice try though.
on the Ignore....
Misha what's wrong with u? I'm just kidding, why do u always think I'm sarcastic and offending? Just relax man, we are cool...
I don't think u need a citizenship to feel belonging to a place u live in, unless u need a piece of paper to define who u are...
what's got in to me, I sound so wise today... oh,oh... Zlatanov ain't going to like this.
I don't think his shirt is Guillermo Barros Schelotto, sorry... haha
As long as it is blue/yellow (or yellow/blue), its fine for me!
Hey, Santiyago, have you had as much rainy days as us in March.
We got deluged with 24 rainy days in 31 days of March. This all-time record stunk.
Yes, we have had rain, but not as much as you have... we needed it, so that's not a problem... at least it has been dosified... a little every other day... unlike last year, when it didn't stop for like 3 days...
fortunatedly, I spent last week in Cuba on vacation :p017:
so I wasn't here to see it... now I'm back to the real world...
rahul.acm
07-04-2006, 22:33
cuba hah?
sounds yummy, juicy, habanos and castro!
ukrainian_CA
07-04-2006, 23:00
Yes, we have had rain, but not as much as you have... we needed it, so that's not a problem... at least it has been dosified... a little every other day... unlike last year, when it didn't stop for like 3 days...
fortunatedly, I spent last week in Cuba on vacation :p017:
so I wasn't here to see it... now I'm back to the real world...
Unreal weather - it is forecast to rain for 2 more weeks almost daily.
We are all sick of it.
I am glad I played the game today, it will be a while now again, feels like in Seattle, not in Cal.
On the front: I will be flying all day of 26th and miss the game at Nou Camp :-( :p146:
I think we should plan this game based on the midfield battle (our 4 vs their 3 w/o Deco 1st leg). There is noway for our aging defense to contain the 3 attackers at bay unless we cut off the supply or destroy the quality of supply from Barca midfield.
So we should rest our midfield in Inter game no matter the cost. My suggestion is real 4-4-2 ( not 4-1-2-1-2 as we usually do)
Maldini-Nesta-Kala-Serghino
Kaka-Gastuso-Pirlo-Seedorf
Sheva
Inzaghi
and play like the home game against Juve with Kaka as a right mid not moving too much around, Sheva will be the trouble maker and Inzaghi as the finisher.
If we have some lead going into the 2nd leg I suggest we go with 4-3-2-1
Stamp (hopefully) - Nesta - Kala - Maldini
Voggel/Ambrosini - Pirlo - Seedorf
Kaka-Rui
Sheva
it is too dangerous to play Rino in a low defensive game or I can expect he is already booked out in the second leg after the first leg fight with Roni.
I believe after 2 tough games Milan will be in Paris, Milan never have any problem when considered the underdog.
But recall the following games we should be carefull if we have some lead and play Belusconi formation in the second leg:
Depor 4 goal lead
PSV 2 goal lead
Liverfool 3 goal lead first half
What you think?
Sant: I spent last week in Cuba on vacation
Aren't u at war or something with Cuba??? I heard there's american embargo on Cuba and stuff like that.
There is no such war in Cuba, embargo is just a system that punishes any company that deals business with the country when that company goes to the USA, not any kind of physical war.
embargo is just a system that punishes any company that deals business with the country when that company goes to the USA
...ah??? This one only Zlatan can understand.
I know there is no physical war, I meant tense relations. That this two countries close their borders to each other. No trade, no tourism (atleast I thought though before Sant said he visited there). Usa also refusing to recognise Castro and his government, tryed to kill him dozen times.
And I heard that there is a military base on cuban soil (Guatamala or something, I think it's a military jail), what's about that? How comes that USA provents Cuba join the NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), but on the other hand cubans let them visit their country and build military bases?
...ah??? This one only Zlatan can understand.
I know there is no physical war, I meant tense relations. That this two countries close their borders to each other. No trade, no tourism (atleast I thought though before Sant said he visited there). Usa also refusing to recognise Castro and his government, tryed to kill him dozen times.
And I heard that there is a military base on cuban soil (Guatamala or something, I think it's a military jail), what's about that? How comes that USA provents Cuba join the NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), but on the other hand cubans let them visit their country and build military bases?
You can save these for the flamer's paradise and talk Cuba in that forum. INteresting questions though.
Cheers.
The military base in Cuba was built long before Castro came into power by a lease agreement reached with Bautista regime (I may be wrong about this name) which said if Cuba wants to get back the base it has to reach an agreement with the USA. By that the USA refuses to agree to reture the base and the Castro's Cuba by no mean can get back the base by force. Though the Castro goverment refuses to collect rental fee from the US US troop will be there indefinately.
I believe despire of the different system existing in Cuba the country is really beautifull and worth seeing, lobster costs a couple of dollars per kg.
Oh.. thanks for explanation. But they could kick them out in the 60's, when there was an armed cinflict between this two nations. Wasn't it a little bit risky for the soviets to put nucluer missiles in a distance of just a few kilometers from american military base?
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 10:51
Oh.. thanks for explanation. But they could kick them out in the 60's, when there was an armed cinflict between this two nations. Wasn't it a little bit risky for the soviets to put nucluer missiles in a distance of just a few kilometers from american military base?
Of course it was risky ... or maybe stupid is a beter word for it ... that's why we have the term "Cuban Crisis" when the world came as close to a Nuclear war as it has ever been to. But that's hardly a question for MM mebers to answer. This type of question should have been asked to Nikita and you are about 40-45 years too late.
It's all in the past now, let's leave it there. Can't change past mistakes but can only learn from them.
Zlatanov: that's why we have the term "Cuban Crisis" when the world came as close to a Nuclear war as it has ever been to.
I guess u didn't hear about Nagasaki and Hiroshima, smart boy like u.
P.S. I knew u wouldn't miss such intellectual debate, way to go Zlatan!!
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 11:23
I guess u didn't hear about Nagasaki and Hiroshima, smart boy like u.
P.S. I knew u wouldn't miss such intellectual debate, way to go Zlatan!!
Sash, first try to get your facts straight and then enter a duscussion. What you are referring to was just an experiment, a quite unnecessary end to a "normal war". It wasn't a nuclear war, "just" a nuclear massacre.
If there ever was a nuclear war, well, let's just say that we wouldn't be here today.
As for the intellectual debate part, there never was one, let alone an intellectual one, as for a debate you need two parties, two sides ... here what we have is one side and a high-school kid that has skipped it's history classes because the stuff you have been asking questions about, you should have covered in high school already.
ACMILAN1983
08-04-2006, 12:26
guys, I urge you to stick to the subject otherwise people may get in trouble (which we've had enough of lately) ;)
Did I call it a "nucleur war"???? Did I??? Just a moment, give me a sec... nope, can't remember that I did... again as usual u full of sh*t.
U said that cuban crisis is when the world "came as close to a Nuclear war as it has ever been to" and I just thought that in Japan the world was a little-tiny-bit closer (talking about few inches closer than in Cuba that's all) to the "nucleur war"... u know since it was actualy used on humans in a time of war, the rest it's just a game of words. Politicians like to play words, are u a politician Zlat? Smart boy like u...
And u say I supposed to cover this stuff in school, well not every human been on the planet supposed to know all the details about Cuban-USA relations and it's history, or Soviet involement in "Cuban Crisis".
Nevertheless I'm sure I know history better than u, wanna bet?? Let's go to flamer's paradise and have ourself some trivia, and I'll kick ur azz... oh I forgot, u are to grown-up for that (btw I already told u that I finished school).
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 12:57
Did I call it a "nucleur war"???? Did I??? Just a moment, give me a sec... nope, can't remember that I did... again as usual u full of sh*t.
U said that cuban crisis is when the world "came as close to a Nuclear war as it has ever been to" and I just thought that in Japan the world was a little-tiny-bit closer (talking about few inches closer than in Cuba that's all) to the "nucleur war"... u know since it was actualy used on humans in a time of war, the rest it's just a game of words. Politicians like to play words, are u a politician Zlat? Smart boy like u...
And u say I supposed to cover this stuff in school, well not every human been on the planet supposed to know all the details about Cuban-USA relations and it's history, or Soviet involement in "Cuban Crisis".
Nevertheless I'm sure I know history better than u, wanna bet?? Let's go to flamer's paradise and have ourself some trivia, and I'll kick ur azz... oh I forgot, u are to grown-up for that (btw I already told u that I finished school).
No, but I did and you quoted me on it. Also, I told you to get your facts straight and then discuss things that are so beyond you. When Hiroshima and Nagasaki took place, the U.S. was the ONLY nuclear capable state in the world. How could you have a nuclear war in those conditions when anything involving the word "nuclear" would have been pure massacre ... as it was in deed. The necessary conditions for a nuclear war came into existance only after the Soviets announced that they have an A-bomb as well and soon after several other countires followed suit.
Also, when Hiroshima and nagasaki happened, the Soviets and the US were "allies" so to speak as the Cold War hadn't even started and they all were united vs Germany and japan. During the Cuban Crisis was when the Cold War came to its peak and that's why even the most insignificant negative gesture could spark a nuclear war, let alone deploying tactical missles in US's backyard.
Now, let's put an end to this, becuase I really hate it when I have to explain obvious things. Not to mention that it's well beyond the topic of this thread.
I see u have some comprehension problems, u just gave me some facts on the ww2 and cold war, that most of them unrelevant to our debate. And then u tryed to give some false definitions to different terms like what is nuclear war and massacre. I'm gonna devide ur post into number of paragraphs and relate to each one of them, and to show how full of sh*t are u.
1.No, but I did (called Cuban Crisis as a nucleur war) and you quoted me on it.
When? Where? I quoted u saying that Cuban Crisis was the closest that was to nucleur war. I don't remember u calling any war as a nucleur war, and especial didn't quote u doing so. This is the first time u are full of sh*t.
2.When Hiroshima and Nagasaki took place, the U.S. was the ONLY nuclear capable state in the world. How could you have a nuclear war in those conditions when anything involving the word "nuclear" would have been pure massacre ... as it was in deed. The necessary conditions for a nuclear war came into existance only after the Soviets announced that they have an A-bomb as well and soon after several other countires followed suit.
Here u are munipulating our debate to make things easy on u, as I already said it's all game of words. The definition of Nuclear War is : "Nuclear war, or atomic war, is war in which nuclear weapons are used." I checked that on babylon and wikipedia, and u can do the same. But why isn't it considered as a nuclear war? Because history is written by the winners and americans don't want this big stain on their conscience and image. How could they play this roll of good guys protecting the world from communism and terror if in every discussion in the UN they were blamed for this and compared with the nazis or something. I'm sure if it was on the contrary, and americans were bombed without responding, they would call it a "Nuclear War".
And lets look the definition of the word massacre: "events of deliberate and direct mass killing, especially of noncombatant civilians or other innocents, that would often qualify as war crimes or atrocities". It doesn's depend who is bombing who, and even in case of two nations bombing each other it would still be considered as a massacre. So in case of what u call a "nuclear war" avoiding a massacre is impossible. On this paragraph u get 2 points of being full of sh*t.
3.Also, when Hiroshima and nagasaki happened, the Soviets and the US were "allies" so to speak as the Cold War hadn't even started and they all were united vs Germany and japan. During the Cuban Crisis was when the Cold War came to its peak and that's why even the most insignificant negative gesture could spark a nuclear war, let alone deploying tactical missles in US's backyard.
Yes, thank u for the history lesson... but what's that has to do to anything? I wanted to go easy on u and give u only half point, but cause u babbled so much without point in this one u'll get a full point of being full of sh*t.
4.Now, let's put an end to this, becuase I really hate it when I have to explain obvious things. Not to mention that it's well beyond the topic of this thread.
I already invited u to Flamer's Paradise, but u are must waiting to moderators to interfere and stop our debate and save ur sorry azz. For this one u get another point.
So u gathered 5 points of bullsh*ting, and that's alot for smart boy like u!!! As I already said man... u are simply full of sh*t.
King tiger
08-04-2006, 14:50
Alex wtf is wrong with u.I readed some of your comments before and all u want to do is argue with people abou matters that dont go in this topic.Nuclear war is when 4 example USA attacks SSSR with an a-bomb and then they attack them with a-bomb, then the brits involve and china itd.and our planet is destroyed.
Nagasaki and Hiroshima were terrible part of human history, and American history, but it was not the nuclear war, because if it was then Japan would attack America eith a-bomb, it was an terrible massacre of innocent lives, and yes the Americans are to blame.Im not a fan of Americas relations to other countries, nor am i fan of Bush goverment, but the theory of a nuclear war isnot true.
Who is this? What do u want?? Please take this guy away from me... can't u read, do u have problems with your eyes, brain perhaps? I just gave u a clear definition of what is "nuclear war" by dictionary, what f*cking theory are u talking about??? And why are u blaming me for the arguing, it's take to for tango... damn I only wanted to know how come the americans are allowed to visit Cuba.
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 15:12
I see u have some comprehension problems, u just gave me some facts on the ww2 and cold war, that most of them unrelevant to our debate. And then u tryed to give some false definitions to different terms like what is nuclear war and massacre. I'm gonna devide ur post into number of paragraphs and relate to each one of them, and to show how full of sh*t are u.
When? Where? I quoted u saying that Cuban Crisis was the closest that was to nucleur war. I don't remember u calling any war as a nucleur war, and especial didn't quote u doing so. This is the first time u are full of sh*t.
Here u are munipulating our debate to make things easy on u, as I already said it's all game of words. The definition of Nuclear War is : "Nuclear war, or atomic war, is war in which nuclear weapons are used." I checked that on babylon and wikipedia, and u can do the same. But why isn't it considered as a nuclear war? Because history is written by the winners and americans don't want this big stain on their conscience and image. How could they play this roll of good guys protecting the world from communism and terror if in every discussion in the UN they were blamed for this and compared with the nazis or something. I'm sure if it was on the contrary, and americans were bombed without responding, they would call it a "Nuclear War".
And lets look the definition of the word massacre: "events of deliberate and direct mass killing, especially of noncombatant civilians or other innocents, that would often qualify as war crimes or atrocities". It doesn's depend who is bombing who, and even in case of two nations bombing each other it would still be considered as a massacre. So in case of what u call a "nuclear war" avoiding a massacre is impossible. On this paragraph u get 2 points of being full of sh*t.
Yes, thank u for the history lesson... but what's that has to do to anything? I wanted to go easy on u and give u only half point, but cause u babbled so much without point in this one u'll get a full point of being full of sh*t.
I already invited u to Flamer's Paradise, but u are must waiting to moderators to interfere and stop our debate and save ur sorry azz. For this one u get another point.
So u gathered 5 points of bullsh*ting, and that's alot for smart boy like u!!! As I already said man... u are simply full of sh*t.
Look, twist my words anyway you wish - and btw, when you quote someone, you are not supposed to manipulate their words as you did in that 1st quote. You can roll that dice as it suits you but you can't change the facts of history.
As for being afraid of moderators, ha, I think you have a much richer experience with these things than anyone here.
Sasha, don't you have more improtant matters to attend to. For example, let me see if I can say it in russian - edna terapia.
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 15:14
damn I only wanted to know how come the americans are allowed to visit Cuba.
in the very same way you are allowed to visit the Czech Republic, I am guessing.
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 15:20
It might be a good idea if a mod erased the last couple of pages with posts 'cause this thread went a little too far in the wrong direction.
Well in that first quote "No, but I did and you quoted me on it." u was referring to the Cuban Crisis, else what?
Man u are full of sh*t, what Czech Rep. got to do with it? Czech Rep. considered themself as an occupied nation by Soviet Union, Cuba on the other hand was voluntary ally of USSR... americans tried to invade it, tried to kill their leader and make life there very difficult for citizens by trade embargos. Czech Rep. even considered today as american ally (backed them up in UN before Iraq war and sent troops there after).
If u go to Iran and people there discover u are american, they will lynch u at the main square, and americans didn't do them even half problems they did to cubans. So how comes u can walk around free in Cuba and chill like nothing never happened, or even not happening till today??? That's my point!!!! U dare to call me stupid?? U don't know sh*t...
P.S. Sorry got confused, u were referring to Japan and not Cuban Crisis in that quote. But what's the difference, u contradicting urself anyway. U are saying that Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn't a nuclear war, so how could I quoted u calling it as one????
I see where we missunderstood each other:
U said that Cuban Crisis was the closest the war was to nuclear war. Than I asked u if u heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and u thought that I meant that it was a nucleaur war. But I meant that it was closer to nuclear war than Cuban Crisis... lol we made a mess out of it.
It's very hard to debate this kind of why, not face to face. There are many missunderstandings and mistakes, and we both did twisted each other words. U know why we don't get alone? Cause we both think that we are too smart...
King tiger
08-04-2006, 16:03
"That's my point!!!! U idiot, U dare to call me stupid?? U don't know sh*t... stupid moron." I see u are very nice, polite person.
"If u go to Iran and people there discover u are american, they will lynch u at the main square, " hahaha one of the most stupid ting that i read in my life lol.
u are god aleksandar.
Zlatan I think I ready for truce with u... we both need to chill, and we both do attack people when they think different, I saw u doing it few times. I think I have to apologise to some members of this forum, but not to u Zlatan, cause u are the same azzhole like me.
Who is this King tiger? He is spoiling the moment, lol... Well tiger I just have to say I saw many times on TV how the iranians burning american flags, iranian soldiers walking on it (humiliate it) and stuff like that. So why don't cubans do that??? They suffered much more, and still they are cool with americans, just can't understand why. Different mentality I guess..
I will go for this.I think we need a 4-4-2 system.That way we will have width and also the extra manpower to deal with the threat of Messi and Ronaldinho from the wings.
...... Dida.........
Cafu...Nesta....Kaladze...Maldini....
Kaka...Gattuso...Seedorf..Serginho..
........Sheva......Pippo.......
or
...... Dida.........
Cafu...Nesta....Kaladze...Maldini....
Pirlo...Gattuso...Seedorf..Serginho..
........Sheva......Pippo.......
Pirlo doeas have a great right foot,stick him on the wing to deliver great crosses.
King tiger
08-04-2006, 16:23
well i saw them burning the american flags, so what?burning flag is not killing.
Your facts are weird.About that cuban folks it may be coz amount of them hate Castro and comunnism.
P.S:this needs to stop.No more politics on Milan-Barca topic
sheva-gila
08-04-2006, 16:24
whats this???? I m just reading some commenst here wowwww this forum definitly should be renamed, we have comments aboout war, crisis, bombs nuclear... i really dont know what is all about this thread is about milan and barca do we expect war in that game crises nuclear bombs if we gonna have that im goin to kill my self before that war .
if someone has a desire to comment about war go to aonther forum cause this is all about milan and sport and Im 100% sure u dont know nothing about war u just may talk about it but you dont know in a reality what war is.
We are just few members who knows something about war if u wanna know about is ask members from ballkan bosnia ,croatia, kosovo,slovenia or people from warplace.
please stop talkin about it here, if Im wrong than sorry and i apologise to everyone here.
Well I'm from Israel, so we know a thing or two about wars too...
rahul.acm
08-04-2006, 18:57
please everybody. i respect ur posts and thoughts alot! Infact sometime i feel that u post real quality stuff! but this fight that is going on...please forget it man!
no one benefits from these fights it just disturbs the mood of the forum! u are one of the best posters!
its a request! please dont take it personally!!
we r such a good forum with decent members. dont screw our image!
ukrainian_CA
08-04-2006, 19:30
Nice thread I opened...)
Sash, nice admission finally in
"I think I have to apologise to some members of this forum, but not to u Zlatan, cause u are the same azzhole like me." Hilarious couple pages.... So I couldn't resist not to comment.
Sash, did you confuse a country name, Guatemala, with Guantanamo (bay) in Cuba?
And by the way... Americans do go to Teheran all the time, the same way as they go to Moscow and Kiev - with extra caution. As they can go to Cuba, but lots of fun once you "tengas dinero" and knowledge of Espaniol that Santiago has is a big plus (just like in my trips to Mexico, my spanish sucks big time - hablo muy poquito).
Sash, if you went to Western Ukraine it would be much easier for you than for a Moscal' who can't underrstand and speak the language.
Inter wins today. No room for procrastination for us tomorrow.
Lana, in the first formation you drop Pirlo and the second you drop Kaka, this is not good for the home game which we must attack.
Just a bit of history. The Cuban crisis was just a chess game and very smart move by Soviet leader (SL) and the world was not so close to nuclear war as it appeared.
It started when SL spent the holidays on a beach (I can't recall if it is Black sea or whatever) which was so near to Turkey, 40 miles or so, and he was able to see Turkey across the sea then one of his staffs told him the US had short range nurclear missiles there. He jumped and said " we have to do something about this". 4 months later the Soviet secretly installed some on the short range missiles in Cuba which put all the east cities of the US at risk. Then it turned out a crisis as everybody knows. At the end the US looked victorious when the Soviet pulled their missiles out but a covered part of the deal (very few ones know until these days) was the US also pulled out short range missiles from Turkey. So the victor was the Soviet.
The US and the USSR were never stupid enough to really engage in any real nurclear conflict because they know the outcome if that happens, this is so called statergic balance, so we are still safe. The really threads in the world are from the less civilised nations like Iran, Irag, North Korea, Taliban Afgan, Siria...
Look at Milan squad for Chievo, no Sheva. So definitely Sheva will play in Friday, Milan still weights the Inter game heavily, this could be desasterous for CL game vs Barca.
ukrainian_CA
08-04-2006, 20:49
Just a bit of history. The Cuban crisis was just a chess game and very smart move by Soviet leader (SL) and the world was not so close to nuclear war as it appeared.
It started when SL spent the holidays on a beach (I can't recall if it is Black sea or whatever) which was so near to Turkey, 40 miles or so, and he was able to see Turkey across the sea then one of his staffs told him the US had short range nurclear missiles there. He jumped and said " we have to do something about this". ...
whoa!
Where did you pick up this story? It is badly deformed from whatever it was originally.
The Soviet Leader, Nikita Khruschev, probably spent time on the seaside secured villa
in Crimea (the Black sea). That was the standard place for the leaders of the USSR to go to in summer, since it has all infrastracture built for ... the commander.
I have visited that place last May, but you can look at the map if you care.
The closest you can go to Turkey on land in the whole USSR is several hundred kms.
It is a joke to say that one can see Turkey from any part of the ex-USSR.
Cuba is also about 150-200 km away from the southern tip of Florida. Khruschev probably said something about Turkey's bases and how Cuba is close to the US...
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 21:05
Guys, let's just move on to that barca thing and leave history to historians ... how close we were or were not to a nuclear holocost in 1962 hardly anyone but few will know ... let's just enjoy the fact that it didn't happen and thanks to that, and to Pippo and Sheva ;), in 10 from now we will witness a great spectacle of that beautiful game, or at least that's what we all hope for.
Forza Milan !!!!
rahul.acm
08-04-2006, 22:04
ok to the topic~
merda inter today won. they are second. is it worth resting our players for the barca game? i dont think so! its a matter of pride against the bastard club of milan!
zlatanov
08-04-2006, 22:38
With the game being moved to Friday there is a good chance that against Inter, we will see most of the main "characters" that will also take part of the Barca game. That means, however, that players like Sheva, Kaka, Pirlo, Sergio, Seedorf, and Gattuso will be either entirely rested or play at most a half vs Chievo.
Hoping for another "wonderful" friday though, and after that a trip back in time to Athens, maybe ;)
Ok sorry to be pain in the azz and continue the arguement, but I just have to add something. Minhduc u were right about the turkish missiles, part of the deal was removing them by the US. US also comiteted never try invade Cuba and recognise it's regime.
And Misha (ukrainian_CA ) USSR did share borders with Turkey. Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia are former Soviet republics and all three have a shared border with the Turkes, so I don't know if Minhduc story is true or not, but it's possible... just look at the map.
rahul.acm
09-04-2006, 02:46
hey alex wer r u from mate!
Alex22, thanks for the information. My story is from History Channel in a documentry program about JFK who was the No.1 man involved in the Cuban crisis. This should be true though I said before that I can't clearly remember if it is a beach on black sea or some where else. Thanks guys.
Back to the Barca game, I still can not forget how we were physically beaten in the Depor (2004) and PSV (2005) so we it may be a sweet defeat at Inter (I can accept that and the Inter fans should not be proud if they beat our second team) if later we bring barca to its knee.
Anyway no guarrantee that Inter can beat our second team.
Anyway I do not live in Milan so I may not fully understand the derby meaning
Alex22, thanks for the information. My story is from History Channel in a documentry program about JFK who was the No.1 man involved in the Cuban crisis. This should be true though I said before that I can't clearly remember if it is a beach on black sea or some where else. Thanks guys.
Back to the Barca game, I still can not forget how we were physically beaten in the Depor (2004) and PSV (2005) so we it may be a sweet defeat at Inter (I can accept that and the Inter fans should not be proud if they beat our second team) if later we bring barca to its knee.
Anyway no guarrantee that Inter can beat our second team.
Anyway I do not live in Milan so I may not fully understand the derby meaning
I will have to respectfully disagree with your suggestion about the INTER game. Losing such a match endangers our position in 2nd. Neither does it gurantee us a win against Barca. I'll say this again for the umpteenth time as I have done so in other threads. This giving up of place/position in Serie A with the rationale that it is supposed to give us chance for the CL will end up with egg on our faces .
Look at the possibilities. Say we do lose the INTER match to utilize the Barca game, we can still lose to Barca. Result... Milan out of the CL and in 3rd for Serie A. My opinion is that we first of all were never out of a shot at the title until the Lecce lost and the miracle win vs Lyon. Such practice as I always said causes the slippery slope phenoma to a point where now second is no longer a priority.
Lets look at this another way. Say we do lose to Inter and actually win the CL Final in the end. How embarrassing of a predicament the club will be in when only last year many members here and also in the Milan Exec comittee were blasting harsh criticism of Liverpools showing in their domestic league. It would be an unneccessary obstacle for us to go through CL qualification because of our domestic standing and at the same time be the defending CL Champs. The possibilty there would be for us not to make it to the Final 32 group stage. I'd hate to see it that way, but never dismiss the possibilities.
It is probably wisest to try to win vs INTER with an A team lineup. Lets not even call any players on this team a B team player as I believe all of them are and should be A team players. Let's try to keep our priorities in both Serie A and CL on equal importance folks
hitmannq8
09-04-2006, 12:22
So you're saying, lets not maximize our efforts on champions league, but share them both on champs league and getting 2nd in serie A so we dont go through qualification stages, to play in champs league next year?
im sorry but i dont agree with you.. i'd rather win this year, and end up 3rd in champs league, even if we dont qualify which is a 0.00000000001%, i wouldnt mind really..
rahul.acm
09-04-2006, 12:28
derby will always be important. i agree the importance of cl but our we have already lost the previous derby so we have to make up for it!
any way i am watching the satander-barca game and their defence is suking! they are trailing 2-1. its available on shanghai!
Rahul, I was bor in Ukraine but living in Israel...
ukrainian_CA
09-04-2006, 16:17
Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia are former Soviet republics and all three have a shared border with the Turkes, so I don't know if Minhduc story is true or not, but it's possible... just look at the map.
Sash, I know that you know well that the SL residence on the Black sea is not in any of those 3 former republics. All SL's had been spending summertime in Foros in Crimea.
Disagree?
ukrainian_CA
09-04-2006, 16:25
Alex22, thanks for the information. My story is from History Channel in a documentry program about JFK who was the No.1 man involved in the Cuban crisis. This should be true though I said before that I can't clearly remember if it is a beach on black sea or some where else. Thanks guys.
Your information is good, History Channel is a good source.
The only thing I was arguing was the distances. The short range missiles range several hundred kms, that is the size of the Black sea from US bases in Turkey to the SL residence on seaside. Same goes for Cuba, I think you may sea Florida Keys at some spectacular clear air day from Cuba, but I doubt...
You guys, didn't we wabnt to move this topic to Flamers...?
BaggioForever
09-04-2006, 21:00
OMG..i think we had enough history lessons since school and we certainly do not need one now in this thread. Move on people!
hitmannq8
09-04-2006, 22:20
Your information is good, History Channel is a good source.
The only thing I was arguing was the distances. The short range missiles range several hundred kms, that is the size of the Black sea from US bases in Turkey to the SL residence on seaside. Same goes for Cuba, I think you may sea Florida Keys at some spectacular clear air day from Cuba, but I doubt...
You guys, didn't we wabnt to move this topic to Flamers...?
When i went to cuba last month, they told us that we could see another country on a clear day. I think it was Florida Keys, but im not sure, it could be Jamaica.
Cafu looks ok in the Chievo game, can be used in the Barca game, but I do miss Stamp who would be very effective for his headers when we have a corner kick or free kick at s flanks.
Dida was terrible, I don;t know what is wrong with him, but my feeling is he will not recover his form, no confidence at all. Imagine a mistake he makes at this point of CL could be fatal.
Rui looks still very good if we need a possession games which we should play in Now Camp.
Peachtot
09-04-2006, 23:26
kui...where are you ??
as you know, milan will face barca this semifinal round of CL Cup?
How bout our bet on Kaka vs Dinho last year ?
Is it still on ?
3 pts for each goal and 1 pt for each assist. what do you say, man ?
So you're saying, lets not maximize our efforts on champions league, but share them both on champs league and getting 2nd in serie A so we dont go through qualification stages, to play in champs league next year?
im sorry but i dont agree with you.. i'd rather win this year, and end up 3rd in champs league, even if we dont qualify which is a 0.00000000001%, i wouldnt mind really..
I can understand why you would think so. Is it not possible to maximize our efforts in the CL without compromising our standing in the SERIE A??? It came down to the wire against Lyon by shrugging off the Lecce game. You and I very well know that utilizing or compromising doesnt win Championships. It doesnt take really tactics but it does take heart and soul to win this. Remember it is called the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. I understand and respect and acknowledge the present format of the CL. Let us not forget however the reason for the prestige of the title. There's a reason why it isnt called the "I placed in Third, Fourth, or Fifth League". That's called the UEFA Cup. By winning the CL title this way, you compromise the prestige of the title and how it was meant to be. Alright... this is a UEFA problem. That doesnt mean we lessen the the original principle or the whole reason for being there.
There were many who came up with the rationale after the Lecce lost that it was for the sake of the CL. Again look at the slippery slope effect that is going on. We gave up on the Serie A when there wasnt any reason to. A win against Lecce would have given us 6pts vs the 2pts Juve has earned for the second or third straight week. Without a doubt that would have definitely put us back in the hunt! You've talked about maximization, clearly we didnt maximize or seize this oppurtunity. Bye bye Serie A right??? So now... bye bye 2nd position??? "Here INTER have a free pass into next years CL!". No decent common sense Rossoneri fan should ever contemplate this!
Momentum is a key factor here too as the Lecce loss was of poor strategy as IMO nothing is really wrong with our teams tactics. Strategy calls for us not to cause a break or slip in our momentum. The lost against Lecce clearly showed the lost of momentum against Lyon albeit even after our win. Luckily the win vs Lyon allowed this team to regain its momentum in the Chievo win. Compromising our momentum by giving up on our Serie A placing is no way a good move before a big game against Barca. Without a doubt many here go after our coach on tactics which they dont understand when what they should be criticizing is the strategy which too is without a clue... okay!
Look at reason here hitman. Why are we "gifting" our place in Italy??? Why are we gifting Juve the Scudetto? Why are we gifting our place to INTER? For a Barca win??? You sure about that??? Losing to Inter=Barca win. Gee I must be terrible in my math. Let me look at the problem again... Losing to INTER=Barca win. You know what??? I'm glad my math is terrible cause I just dont understand this formula. Try look at the formula I was thinking about... LOSING TO INTER=LOSING TO INTER. Let me look at another one of my numbskull formulas here... LOSING Scudetto=LOSING Scudetto. Gee I must be wrong in my math. Let's go back to the "gift giving" math geniuses here to see the comparrison... LOSING Scudetto=WINNING CL. Gee Kui??? Is it true or false??? Seems false to me, but I must be wrong here!
Now I know there will be some telling me "Well we got to take that risk KUI!". Losing a Serie A game folks to get a CL win isnt risk. That is cowardice... clean, cut and dry. You want risk! Risk is winning Serie A games and winning CL games, NOT losing SERIE A games to win CL games. That is called a handout. Maldini's charity is in UNICEF not in Serie A or the CL. This seperates the BIG BOYS and GIRLS apart from the rest.
LOSING to INTER=LOSING to INTER... TRUE
LOSING SERIE A MATCHES=LOSING SERIE A PLACING... TRUE
LOSING SCUDETTO=LOSING SCUDETTO... TRUE
LOSING to INTER=WINNING Barca... FALSE
LOSING SERIE A MATCHES=WINNING CL MATCHES... FALSE
LOSING SERIE A STANDING=WINNING CL STANDING... FALSE
LOSING SERIE A=WINNING CL TITLE... FALSE
Also the "NOT" gurantees...
Winning against Inter doesnt mean a win for us vs Barca. Remember however the rule that Losing to Inter or any other Serie A opponent does not give us a win vs Barca or any other competitor in the CL.
Going for Lo Scudetto doesnt mean a trophy for us in the CL. Remeber again neither does throwing it away or any more concession in our Serie A standing.
Wisdom people.... wisdom!
Lastly and most importantly people a true CHAMPION is not in titles gained. CHAMPION's take the true meaning of the word "risk". CHAMPION's dont give up on any adversity when confronted with it. CHAMPION's dont cheat. CHAMPION's dont concede their integrity in the "Good Fight". A CHAMPION tries. Oh yes... CHAMPION's can be defeated and do lose titles. THEY NEVER LOSE THEIR HEART. This is a CHAMPION my friends... this is a CHAMPION.
Here Endeth the Lesson.
FORZA MILAN!
kui...where are you ??
as you know, milan will face barca this semifinal round of CL Cup?
How bout our bet on Kaka vs Dinho last year ?
Is it still on ?
3 pts for each goal and 1 pt for each assist. what do you say, man ?
What do you mean where am I??? Where the heck have you been!!??? LOL! I do see you posting in the Indonesia threads but am elated to FINALLY chat wit ya.
Are you asking me to take a risk Kaka vs Dinho at this juncture??? Without a doubt of our last conversation I may have put the cart before the horse about Dinho. So the RISK is big! You know what??? Game ON Peachtot! I like your format.... 3pts/goal & 1pt/assist. Mind you, if the point spread is a mere point between us, I still take it as an impasse. Let's be clear cut and also say no less than 3pts apart as a mandate. So if Kaka or Dinho only takes it by a point or two it is inconclusive. No less than 3 pts for "without a doubt". Consider this not as a compromise but as a pursuit to the truth. Kaka over Dinho or Dinho over Kaka. You got some conflicts because it will be hard to both cheer for Milan and Dinho. I hope you are correct in only one half of this department. Anyhow.... "LET's Get ready to RUMBLE!".
hi guys, can anyone with accurate information tell me who crossed a long ball to shevchenko which led to inzaghi's second goal vs lyon?????
:u31: :u31: :u31:
:wow:
King tiger
10-04-2006, 06:16
I think it was Kaladze.
Georgian
10-04-2006, 08:16
It was KALADZE indeed:)
hitmannq8
10-04-2006, 12:53
kui i didnt say we should give up on the inter game to win the barca game.. no i meant, rest some of the starts for the inter game, let them put an effort in because milan can certainly beat this inter side even if milan are not in top form.. by resting players like seedorf, pirlo, kaka, i think their performance against barca will be much better, and thus is it will help in trying to beat barca, but in no means is a win for granted..
Here's some of my math for you :P
Right now, Milan has a 60% chance of beating Inter. I say if we rest players like Kaka, Sheva, Seedorf, Pirlo, Maldini etc, the probability will then be:
P ( X = BEAT INTER ) = 0.45 < x < 0.55 depending on how many starters will rest
right now, P (X = BEAT BARCA) = 0.5 , but after resting some of our key players, their form will be better and will have more energy, and therefore giving us a P (X=BEAT BARCA) = 0.51 < x < 0.60 .. x varies depending on which player plays to their best
My formation for Inter game:
Simic/Cafu 2 half-Costacurta-Maldini-Jan
Rui-Voggel-Ambrosini-Seedorf/kaka 2 half
Gila-Inzaghi/Sheva 2 half
We can win or at least draw, let's rest Pirlo this one
My formation for the Barca game
Cafu-Nesta-Kala-Serginho
Kaka-Gastuso-Pirlo-Seedorf
Inzaghi-Sheva
Hitmanq8.....Are you a mathematician. :rotfl: That was great man...even though I had to read the post 3 times to understand what you were talking about. I'm not a great math person. It is a good way to think of it though. It makes sense to rest some players. Now though, with the game being pushed to friday, I don't think we need to rest that many people.
ukrainian_CA
10-04-2006, 21:18
kui i didnt say we should give up on the inter game to win the barca game.. no i meant, rest some of the starts for the inter game, let them put an effort in because milan can certainly beat this inter side even if milan are not in top form.. by resting players like seedorf, pirlo, kaka, i think their performance against barca will be much better, and thus is it will help in trying to beat barca, but in no means is a win for granted..
Here's some of my math for you :P
Right now, Milan has a 60% chance of beating Inter. I say if we rest players like Kaka, Sheva, Seedorf, Pirlo, Maldini etc, the probability will then be:
P ( X = BEAT INTER ) = 0.45 < x < 0.55 depending on how many starters will rest
right now, P (X = BEAT BARCA) = 0.5 , but after resting some of our key players, their form will be better and will have more energy, and therefore giving us a P (X=BEAT BARCA) = 0.51 < x < 0.60 .. x varies depending on which player plays to their best
Do you use derivative (futures, options) market values to calculate the expected probabilities of the outcome of a particular game? Do you think the Black-Scholes model could give you a similar but more accurate prediction of expected return? :gun: :p231: Can you please put some dollar signs next to the derby outcomes and the CL BArca games outcomes? This way we could make a right financial decision how many people and who we should rest and for how long in the derby.
:hah2:
And I think instead of "Beat Barca" one must read "Beta La Barca", right?
hitmannq8
10-04-2006, 21:27
hehe nah im just taking a bit too much maths at uni unfortunately, and im trying my best to make it as useful as possible :P
ofcourse its not accurate probabilities, but it certainly has at least some truth in it..
ukrainian_CA
10-04-2006, 21:43
ofcourse its not accurate probabilities, but it certainly has at least some truth in it..
How much truth?
You know that in business marketing/sales we heavily apply the 80-20 rule (meaning that you should spend 80 % of you energy/effort on the best 20 % customers and 80 % of your business yield will come from this 20 % customers)
This is so true for this point of the season, 20 % of your engery for the domestic league where to be realistic we should forget about the scudetto, 2nd position is reckon the 20 % yield, take away the 20 % energy spent on the Inter game we should spend 80 % of the energy on Barca game if we win that is 80 % yield.
This is how a businessman use math.
I don't mind even if we are out of the CL zone if we win the CL. This is so desperate for this season. This is the fading side of the current team (may be among the best 3 squads in Belusconi era) if we don't win the CL this year I have a feeling that it take another 5 -10 years to build another team that is so competitive in CL.
ukrainian_CA
10-04-2006, 21:53
You know that in business marketing/sales we heavily apply the 80-20 rule (meaning that you should spend 80 % of you energy/effort on the best 20 % customers and 80 % of your business yield will come from this 20 % customers)
This is so true for this point of the season, 20 % of your engery for the domestic league where to be realistic we should forget about the scudetto, 2nd position is reckon the 20 % yield, take away the 20 % energy spent on the Inter game we should spend 80 % of the energy on Barca game if we win that is 80 % yield.
This is how a businessman use math.
I don't mind even if we are out of the CL zone if we win the CL. This is so desperate for this season. This is the fading side of the current team (may be among the best 3 squads in Belusconi era) if we don't win the CL this year I have a feeling that it take another 5 -10 years to build another team that is so competitive in CL.
)))
Pareto's Principle - The 80-20 Rule
20% of the people pay 80% of the taxes and
20% of members of MM making 80% of the posts.))))
With the current transfer policy (free agents) Milan should only focus on just 1 objective per season, there is noway to get both CL and Scudetto in one year, the squad just does not have depth.
savage_mau
11-04-2006, 00:44
At first there is still change and hope in winning the Serial A. But after the Lecce game and we lose the hope is gone. If we won maybe we can stil catch Juve like wat happen in England between Mu and Chelsea.
Just also like last year when Milan try to win both in CL and Scudetto, we end up losing both. Ancelloti and the management try to prio the CL and that why we lose the lecce game even they strongly denied it.I even think that Milan gave up the chase much more early before the Lecce game. Milan can show so much fighting spirit in CL but why cant in Serial A??
But seems that a first step is taken we much just walk to the finish line with the CL trophy. We can defeat Barca. Barca is a good team and team of the moment but i dont think they have much experince in CL. where are barca few year back in CL??? how far they go?? This stage of CL is so tention and require high experience. How many playe of barca actually get to this stage apart form VAn Bommel and Deco?? Even ronaldinho haven play at this stage i think!!
i dont mind to losing to inter and guarantee a CL tropht just like 2003 when milan won and finish 3rd behind juve n inter..Anyway we as MIlan fan we will sure still be here next year and after if Milan not won. All the best of luck and as always FoRza MiLan!!!
i think it is silly to only target one big objective per season, besides it is not guaranteed that u will achieve it either. of course milan can win all competitions on offer per season, the reason why milan cant is lack of rotation and probably lack of depth in the squad.
But seems that a first step is taken we much just walk to the finish line with the CL trophy. We can defeat Barca. Barca is a good team and team of the moment but i dont think they have much experince in CL. where are barca few year back in CL??? how far they go?? This stage of CL is so tention and require high experience. How many playe of barca actually get to this stage apart form VAn Bommel and Deco?? Even ronaldinho haven play at this stage i think!!
How about Ajax 95, Porto 04 or even Liverpool 05... how many experienced players they had that years? Not much and still they won the Cl, so ur arguements are unrelevant. And furthermore Ronaldinho have won the world cup, spanish championship, twice been fifa world player and once Gallon O'dore... how many experience does he need?
And I don't agree that our squad isn't deep, it's just managed not right. For example when we played Lecce with our second team we still had a big quality gap in our advantage, and still lost.
Giovanni
11-04-2006, 11:02
drumroll.. tomorrow morning i will know if i will get a ticket for the match..already warming up to be at banca intesa early morning :sun:
hitmannq8
11-04-2006, 12:35
You know that in business marketing/sales we heavily apply the 80-20 rule (meaning that you should spend 80 % of you energy/effort on the best 20 % customers and 80 % of your business yield will come from this 20 % customers)
This is so true for this point of the season, 20 % of your engery for the domestic league where to be realistic we should forget about the scudetto, 2nd position is reckon the 20 % yield, take away the 20 % energy spent on the Inter game we should spend 80 % of the energy on Barca game if we win that is 80 % yield.
This is how a businessman use math.
I don't mind even if we are out of the CL zone if we win the CL. This is so desperate for this season. This is the fading side of the current team (may be among the best 3 squads in Belusconi era) if we don't win the CL this year I have a feeling that it take another 5 -10 years to build another team that is so competitive in CL.
Yeah thats I mean. Trying to get 2nd place in Serie A is certainly something we need to do, but in the expense of the champions league? Our team can certainly win the competition if we are at best, and by using 20% of our effort at the Inter game, we are just making the conditions easier for Milan against Barca. Also, dont forget that if we do lose against Barca, it'll be a 2nd trophyless year on the trot.
Another applcation of the 80-20 rule: 20 % of Milan players (about 6) score 80 % of Milan's goals:
Sheva 27
Kaka 18
Gila 14
Pirlo 9
Inzaghi 8
Seedorf 6
Total 80 over 102
that is very closed to 80 %
Hi all there, I want to say something many of you here might not like.
I honestly don't think Milan will make it past Barcelona, our squad has not changed since maybe two years, and our same players keep playing over and over on two fronts, we have an OLD AGED squad. I think Barca game will be an end of an era, an end for this group's story and Milan will have to change many things in this summer. Milan will always be my team, FORZA !!!
The following players will or possibly will leave: Stamp, Simic, Rui Costa, Costacurta, Ambrosini, Voggel, Amoruso, Kalac, Cafu.
If we really want to compete in both CL and Series A we need to bring in at least 2 central first class defenders, at least 3 real first class mid field, 1 young and good strikers and call Abbiati back.
Also we need to have a need play system, the current one (diamond mid field) depends too much on Pirlo for distribution, Kaka for assist, Gastuso for stopper and Seedorf for possession which is so easy for opponents to read and counter.
Good news is that Berlusconi lost the election so he will spend more time, effort and money on ACM to get popularity, but bad news is he will call Acceloti everyday to instruct the line-up.
No matter how aged this group is we will pass Barca this year, may be 2-0 home and 1-2 away.
Egoistka
12-04-2006, 08:41
Milan has all the chances to overcome opposition. Barsa is a very strong team, but Milan is not less, if not stronger. At the moment Milan is in a very good shape, which is very good. I am sure that we will see a very interesting action in the next 2 games with Barsa, and hopefully will win. :)
Giovanni
12-04-2006, 09:53
today i queued up 4 hours without getting any ticket for the first leg. the computer program went too busy and i heard there's still people queuing up in the afternoon.
Not bad though, as i've already booked the flights for Barcelona. The tickets aren't sure yet but me and Dragana will meet on Las Ramblas for a MM party all together.
I keep finger crossed for the tickets of the return leg to come.
anyone going to Barcelona?
hitmannq8
12-04-2006, 13:02
The following players will or possibly will leave: Stamp, Simic, Rui Costa, Costacurta, Ambrosini, Voggel, Amoruso, Kalac, Cafu.
Costacurta, Kalac, Cafu, Amoruso, Ambrosini are definitely staying. Vogel, Rui, Simic we dont know. Stam is definitely leaving.
Warro Bantan
12-04-2006, 16:49
Sorry Gio, no Barcelona trip for me! Shoot, I will be lucky if I can get out of Kingston for the weekend! :D
I really am amazed at some of the preceding posts...mathematical formulae? Business theorems? Wow!! And here I was thinking that the posters here were a bunch of morons, who could only discuss football in its simplests terms :D:D
Good to see this level of debate, and the multiplicity of ideas.
My theory: The team that makes the fewest mistakes, and the team that manages to capitalise and score on the chances created by those errors, will win. Simple as that.
:D An I aint no rocket scientist!
I agree, it seems like this Barca game brings the best out of everyone in here. It would be a real shame not to win this one... Unfortunately, im not coming to San Siro for this one :( But never mind, I'll be just as loud at home watching the game with my brother and some friends.. Sometimes its really fascinating to see so many people from different parts of the world cherring for Milan with great passion. Well , its 3.20 AM in here, im gonna die if I dont go to sleep now. good night!
Giovanni
13-04-2006, 03:12
I really am amazed at some of the preceding posts...mathematical formulae? Business theorems?
[/QUOTE]
:haha: we just need a priest bless and then we'll be perfect :w221:
You know that in business marketing/sales we heavily apply the 80-20 rule (meaning that you should spend 80 % of you energy/effort on the best 20 % customers and 80 % of your business yield will come from this 20 % customers)
This is so true for this point of the season, 20 % of your engery for the domestic league where to be realistic we should forget about the scudetto, 2nd position is reckon the 20 % yield, take away the 20 % energy spent on the Inter game we should spend 80 % of the energy on Barca game if we win that is 80 % yield.
This is how a businessman use math.
A quote from Donald Trump... "You're Fired!". Pareto's Principle huh??? Let's be accurate. Pareto didnt even come up with this formula. Some guy named Juran did so let's call it Juran's Assumption. Such an assumption only calls for mediocre efficiency and the security of such an assumption is only lukewarm at best.
The BizAdGrads are the only fools to even believe this nonsense. This lot ends up being succesful employees. I call this the business practice of lesser men. Either you'll be a very good noodle shop owner in Jakarta or a very efficient stock clerk in the back of an appliance store.
This is such a brilliant theory. Tell me... if 80% of our team only concentrate using only 80% of that energy for 20% of the game, I guess this means we will beat Inter and Barca. :rolleyes: Heeehsooos...I own my own business and this has got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard!
Hey if you're running a small business, Pareto's principle might... just might make sense. That is, until a friendly WallMart or IKEA runs into town and corners the 80% open market any sensible businessman ought to capitalize on. Watch your 20% join them too while you're at it. You forget... we're AC Milan not "Empoli... who?", "Boavista who?", or "Ipswich who?".
I don't mind even if we are out of the CL zone if we win the CL. This is so desperate for this season. This is the fading side of the current team (may be among the best 3 squads in Belusconi era) if we don't win the CL this year I have a feeling that it take another 5 -10 years to build another team that is so competitive in CL.
That's nice. I guess if we're out of the CL next year, we should apply the 80-20 rule that very year and concentrate 20% of our effort in Serie A. Boy that will give us an 20% yield in Serie A. Better yet we can invest 80% of our energy into a competition we arent even in and 20% of us would be 100% satisfied customers. :v46:
:gonova: Nice try Minh... :gonova: Last time I checked, I dont believe AC Milan ever used this application before. If they did we sure as heck lost and 0% of us were happy about it.
FORZA MILAN!
When we sum it all up this is who Barca is missing........Xavi,Deco,MESSI,Motta id doubt, so is Beletti.... Without trhose 3 players that will for sure miss first leg, we simply need to get some kind of advantage for the second leg. Guly is fast and dangerous,but not as good as messi. They will miss decu in the middle for sure. And if Cafu and Maldini get fit....watch out.We are resting Sheva-Pippo duo also.
rahul.acm
14-04-2006, 13:55
larsson injured soo...
Is it just me, or some of you guys and gals worried about Pirlo's play of late. I'm not just talking about the Inter game, but for the past few games, there has been or let me say I have noticed a considerable dip in form.
He has been non-reactive,making haphazard passes; simply playing badly. If you guys noticed, against Inter and even Chievo he was awful, a shadow of himself truly. To his defense he played most of the games in the season, maybe its fatigue! I hope he can recover for this two very important games coming up. Because truly, Pirlo is Milan's metronome, without him there and playing well, there is a noticeable lack of creativity, quality and continuity.
To play devil's advocate for a minute, and just for the purpose of ADULT debate; Vogel is an adequate replacement, and quite frankly better defensively:
Would it be wise for Carlo to start Vogel instead of Pirlo against Barca? Because, after the Lyon matches where he didn't play well, and his performances in the last two Serie A matches were well below par, I thought he would improve, and he hasn't.
rahul.acm
14-04-2006, 17:45
i agree with you on Pirlo. I don't know why people are not criticising him as much as dida althought they both are doing bad in their deparments! Vogel should be give charge of his postion. Barca are going to come hard on us although they are not in the best of their shapes in La Liga. We cannot just rely on defenders to protect us everytime! we have to keep the ball in the front for attacks and reduce pressure on our defence and Dida! Vogel for sure should play the whole game!
i agree, ive been very dissapointed in pirlos performances, especially his passing, at one point i never imagined him play a pass wrong, this season hes just playing them really poorly and very innacuratley! its frustrating, im hoping vogel starts, pirlo really looks tired
Ambrosini would be a better solution than Vogel as a DM. But we all know Pirlo will play. Guly was FANTASTIC todaay for Barca, I've seen the match. Eto'o was fast as hell, and Beletti is back. So is MArquez and Edmilson. Still, we just need to make sure that they play against pippo-sheva-kaka as much as possible. Not loose positioning and always be patient in zonal formation. I dont think we have enough power for some big pressing in the middle.
devoted_dm
14-04-2006, 19:45
Pirlo should definitely play against Barca. Say what you want about his form this season, but he's the only player we have who can play a precise pass from 40 meters (except Rui Costa, but he won't start the game). We would lose so much creativity in our midfield if he wasn't playing.
Vogel is good too, but I don't think this is the right match for him. We need players who can do magical things on the pitch against Barca, and Pirlo can, while Vogel can't. If Vogel was to play, I'd rather see him take Gattuso's place (and Gattuso was excellent against Inter today, so that won't happen).
Guys I absolutely love the way Pirlo plays, but hes been dissapointing me recently too. Today, however I saw shades of the Pirlo we all love. In the last few months hes been playing far too many long balls to the strikers, but today he cut that out and was passing to the rest of the midfield. Also Pirlo always plays best when he has Cafu's overlapping runs on the right of himto give him more options.
Another thing I noticed today was that when we defended Kaka was on the right, where Rino usually is and Rino was more central. Do you guys think Carlo is doing this with the idea of preparing Kaka, Rino and Cafu to crowd Ronnie out of the Barca game. I remember Carlo using this tactic against Nedved once with Rui out on the right. It was a genious move, Rui played one of his best games for Milan that night constantly dribbling and holding the ball up making Nedved help defend. I cant see Ronnie being able to get past Kaka with his pace and Rino with his aggression. Incase he does Cafu could always nip in and smile at him :u56:
One question is Kalac any good or not and if not why the hell did we get him. Dida's form is terrible!! :rr30:
humanTORCH
14-04-2006, 21:37
apart from the performance of pirlo and dida, the return of cafu is a blessing. with his absense milan has lost the powerful running in our right flank. Stam and billy did well to cover the position but they can't do what cafu do best. I hope Ancelotti will start serginho and cafu cause We can kill barca with their surging run and crosses. But only one of them should do the run up at a time.
Take out Ronaldinho and milan have suprerior players compared to barca.
I agree with some of the posters that vogel should get the start. We need the bite in the middle.(but i guess it won't happened)
The neutrals and barca fans believe that barca will prevail but we are Milan, we perform best during BIG games and the CL is our DNA.(3rd semis in four years) :firedev:
Kalac is good we saw that in the BM away game (when Dida injured) and the domestic game after that (I do not remember). He is tall, good in the air, good against crosses. I feel more comforatble if Carlo plays Kalac in the Barca game.
We should not be worried that both Cafu and Serginho making run at the same time, they only make run when the ball get to their flank and there is only a ball on the field. It normally involves a group of player for flank attack (Seedorf, Serginho and may be Kaka or Sheva on the left; Cafu, Gastuso, may be Sheva or Kaka on the right), this group not only help the build-up but also helping coverage, also Pirlo will fill in the flank when this group is up there too much.
I do not know what K77SH C mean by "crowd Ronie" if that means using a few players make a round around Ronie it is not going to happen, we sacrifice so many players just to cover one opponent players. I think it is a whole tactics that we must start the game from the midfield battle (where Deco not there) and cut the ball there so Ronie will have to play low to collect and distribute the ball and when they have the ball our midfield should not allow them to pass the ball to the direction of Ronie (like we normally do with Adriano). 1/1 marking with Ronie will be a disaster as he is too skillfull.
I believe we should play like the Juve home game with a compact midfield, Kaka play more to right, not running much around, just leave Ronie w/o a ball.
Both Ambrosini and Voggel can play Pirlo position though not as good as the best Pirlo, in either case that would mean we lose creativity and possession in midfield. In the Lion home game when Pirlo left Serginho must play like a flank midfield to make up for the loss of creativity. Replacing Pirlo is a very risky business.
I hope Ancelotti will start serginho and cafu cause We can kill barca with their surging run and crosses. But only one of them should do the run up at a time.
:
I`m not much of a strategist :embarass: , but i wouldn`t play Serginho and Cafu at the same time. I think both of them are too strong offensively to play at the same time, because it would left us fairly uncovered in the back. Only maybe if Serginho would play in the midfield, as a left wing. :undecide: Besides, i don`t think it`s probable anyway, since Maldini will probably be a starter, and provided that Nesta and Kala play CBs, Maldini will play on the left. I also think Pirlo is suffering from fatigue and that Vogel should at least start,he`s been doing a good job so far when he would come on. Hopefully Dida will regain his confidence,that`s what the problem is. His skills are not to be questioned.Forza Milan!
I do not know what K77SH C mean by "crowd Ronie" if that means using a few players make a round around Ronie it is not going to happen, we sacrifice so many players just to cover one opponent players. I think it is a whole tactics that we must start the game from the midfield battle (where Deco not there) and cut the ball there so Ronie will have to play low to collect and distribute the ball and when they have the ball our midfield should not allow them to pass the ball to the direction of Ronie (like we normally do with Adriano). 1/1 marking with Ronie will be a disaster as he is too skillfull.
I believe we should play like the Juve home game with a compact midfield, Kaka play more to right, not running much around, just leave Ronie w/o a ball.
By crowd him out I meant give him little space by making Kaka play near him. But you make a good point, If you cant stop the man, stop the ball getting to the man.
As for Serghinio and Cafu playing together, I think Serghinio plays a much more sensible game now and it should be fine. I would feel alot better if Cafu was fitter though. I think Carlo may start with Serghinio and Cafu to try and take the lead. If we hopefully get that lead Maldini could come on for Pirlo allowing Sergi to push. Alternatively, Billy or Simic could come on for Cafu. By that time Ronaldhinio may be playing more central anyway.
Keeping a clean sheet is the objective, but how ???????
I've been surfing through some Spanish forums and it was said that Van Bommel will be their main man besides Ronaldinho. He told Rajkaard everything he knows about Milan, and everything Gus Hiddink told them to do against Milan last year while playing for PSV .
I don't know if this will affect this game somehow, since PSV and Barcelona are 2 different clubs, but it scares me a little, because PSV did found Milan's weakness last year.
Barcelona's fans are scared by the Serginho-Oleguer duels where they see the greatest danger ( and yet, Serginho may not start at all).
If i remember correctly, last year we played much more defensevely against Barcelona, and we did get rather good results, but will those tactics help us this year, when Barca plays level higher than they did in October and November 2004 ?
Both teams like to have possesion and it's obvious that only midfield will decide the winner of the 2 matches. That's why i think that we must take our chance at home when Deco won't be there to help Barca. Then, in Barcelona, all we will need is another long ball to Sheva ( just as last year) and we'll be almost in Paris !
Forza Milan !
Dont worry too much, even if they know how to beat us its another thing doing it and besides PSV never actually got past us ;) :rone:
slicknick
15-04-2006, 19:45
It is going to be hard but I have the feeling that we are going to make it through and face Arsenal in the final. As long as we are careful with their two deadly wingers(Ronnie and Messi), and keep an eye on Eto'o, there is absolutely no reason for us to destroy Barca.
Their defence is not reliable(with the exception of Puyol) and Valdes is notorious for making deadly mistakes every once in a while, although I still think he is a good keeper overall.
FORZA MILAN, take us back to May 1994 again
slicknick
15-04-2006, 19:46
Wait.. Is Messi sidelined for this game? Can somebody confirm whether he is playing or not?
zlatanov
15-04-2006, 20:01
Wait.. Is Messi sidelined for this game? Can somebody confirm whether he is playing or not?
Yeah, he is definitely out. Actually from the looks of it, he would be out for about 3-4 weeks, at least, which means he will miss the game in Barcelona, as well. There are fears he might miss the world cup too should theer be any complications.
That'd be a shame, I don't want him to play vs. Milan but I definetely want him to showcase his talents at the World Cup.
zlatanov
15-04-2006, 20:54
Most probably he won't miss the WC but I am not sure if he would be at his best there.
Actually, I would have preferred to see him play vs Milan so that there aren't any excuses after we eliminate Barca. Seeing Messi being taken out of the game, would have made the rest of Europe respect Milan even more than they do now.
Forza Milaaaaaaaan !!!!!!!!!!!
humanTORCH
16-04-2006, 00:20
I still have the great believe that to defeat barca is to take the game against them. ONE of the way to kill barca is to fully utilised our wing men. Somehow I believe that ancelotti won't start serginho with cafu but I hope he does. :nervous:
And I will say it again...take our Ronaldinho and barca is just a normal team (apart from puyol and messi :excited: )
I have great believe even the odds are against us :dontcare:
I still have the great believe that to defeat barca is to take the game against them. ONE of the way to kill barca is to fully utilised our wing men. Somehow I believe that ancelotti won't start serginho with cafu but I hope he does. :nervous:
And I will say it again...take our Ronaldinho and barca is just a normal team (apart from puyol and messi :excited: )
I have great believe even the odds are against us :dontcare:
i believe in maldini! maldini would lead milan to victory yet again. i don't see why we should be so afraid of ronaldino, i clearly remember gatusso taking really good care of him the last time we played. He can't even get past gatusso when in 1 on 1 situation and gatusso look really fired up against inter when he showcase his ronaldinho-like skill. i am sure gatusso would keep ronaldinho quiet especially at san siro.
i still believe we should go all out for the victory, take the game to them and we would surely do well.
humanTORCH
16-04-2006, 02:04
i believe in maldini! maldini would lead milan to victory yet again. i don't see why we should be so afraid of ronaldino, i clearly remember gatusso taking really good care of him the last time we played. He can't even get past gatusso when in 1 on 1 situation and gatusso look really fired up against inter when he showcase his ronaldinho-like skill. i am sure gatusso would keep ronaldinho quiet especially at san siro.
i still believe we should go all out for the victory, take the game to them and we would surely do well.
It's not about being afraid of Dinho...it's about scoring goals so that we have an edge before the return of the 2nd leg. keeping a clean sheet is no way easy for the team like barca. Out of nowhere player like dinho can scored like he did to us on the last match.(pure magic :pr115: ). do you think that gatusso can erase him for the whole 90 mins? :dontkn:
whichever team gonna win deserve to win the CL and deep down my heart say it's my beloved Milan :nervous:
humanTORCH
16-04-2006, 02:19
Anyway just watched Milan-Barca final 1994. Savicevic was superb and scoring a great goal.
One thing is similiar to the Milan today that is we are playing as underdog.
Hope that we will teach Barca some lessons on football. :firedev:
Milan now is a rather aged team, we normally suffer against young teams with high spirit like PSV, Lion (building their physical play on team) but not the big one like BM, Barca building their show around a star because Carlo can tell the mid field excactly what to do.
I think we must start which both Cafu and Serginho which not necessarily means we will attack like hell in both wing. Somehow Cafu always helps ball possession which is the most important thing. Everyone should know that Cafu never makes very good crosses like Serginho they are both wingers but different types. Carlo may just tell Cafu not to run.
It looks like:
Dida (my heart jumps)
Cafu-Nesta-Kala-Serginho
Kaka-Pirlo-Gastuso-Seedorf
Pippo-Sheva
Maldini, Rui, Ambrosini, Voggel will come in when we need to change our tactics for some reasons.
It looks like Messi will be available at the point of CL final, but that is the game between Milan and Villareal, nothing to do with Barca.
Im not for the option that Maldini play LB in this match, Serginho plays really good and can cause many problems to Barcas defence. BUT, playing Cafu-Serginho means we will not be so compact in the defence. Still I thjink Serginho can do more damage than Cafu right now. We simply need to win this one by any score, 1-0, 2-1 its all ok. even 0-0. But we ned to be extra carefull not to concede first.
Few long balls to Pippo and Sheva can be a good solution at times, and its about time we score from some corner kick!
Graeme C
16-04-2006, 06:55
Inzaghi to miss barca clash?
Pippo Inzaghi is suffering from a bout of tonsillitis and is a major doubt for Tuesday’s Champions League semi-final with Barcelona.
The Milan striker already had to skip the 1-0 derby victory over Inter due to a high temperature and over the weekend it developed into full-blown tonsillitis.
He is undergoing treatment and taking large doses of antibiotics in a bid to have him in good shape for the first leg encounter at San Siro on Tuesday evening, but it’s becoming increasingly unlikely this will happen in time.
It would be an extremely heavy blow to Carlo Ancelotti’s side, who pushed past Olympique Lyonnais in the quarter-final thanks to an Inzaghi brace.
The former Juventus hitman is perhaps the Rossoneri’s form player in Europe at the moment, scoring four goals in the last three games.
His replacement, Alberto Gilardino, is still looking for his first Champions League goal following a £17m move from Parma in the summer and has netted just twice in the last two months.
With this in mind and Barcelona’s all-attack football, Ancelotti could be tempted to fall back on the Christmas Tree formation that helped him to win this tournament in 2003.
Manuel Rui Costa could come in to help Kaka support lone striker Andriy Shevchenko, who is now the most prolific ever marksman in the Champions League with 52 goals.
Barcelona also have problems coming into Tuesday’s game, as they will be without the injured Lionel Messi and Henrik Larsson. Ronaldinho was rested for Friday’s 1-0 Liga win over Villarreal as he tries to recover from a pulled right thigh muscle.
The two teams met in last season’s Group stage, Milan winning 1-0 at San Siro and losing 2-1 to a last-gasp Ronaldinho strike at the Nou Camp.
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i cant really see ancelloti playing the xmas tree formation, Belusconi demands 2 forwards. I think this might be a chance for Gilardino to shine, he scored in the Albertini tribute match, plus i think he was unlucky against Inter...... Against bayern and lyon we did not play Inzaghi in the first leg, this might be ok for us?
I really wish Pippo can play this one, we need his experience and magic in the box! thre are 2 days left, he can still get fit.
Milan_Mad
16-04-2006, 08:08
If we have Inzaghi out then it's a blow to our chances, he is really the only reason we have got this far. With gila in the line up it will be like we are playing wit 10 men in europe.
I prefer to play Rui in X-tree formation rather than Gila
.............................dida...........................
cafu.......nesta.......kaladze.......maldini.......
.........................pirlo....................
.........gattuso................seedorf.......
..............kaka'............serginho.........
...................shevchenko.............
maybe this? with serginho and kaka supporting sheva. Cautious but dangerous formation.
humanTORCH
16-04-2006, 10:51
Playing a christmas formation will never happen. If pippo can't make it i m pretty sure Gila will take his place. This is the time for him to break his duck and show to the world he will be the next rising star in the world cup.
Some posters here seems to see Gila as a failure :howler:
Playing a christmas formation will never happen. If pippo can't make it i m pretty sure Gila will take his place. This is the time for him to break his duck and show to the world he will be the next rising star in the world cup.
Some posters here seems to see Gila as a failure :howler:
It would seem that it is a matter if Gila can read off of Sheva inthe same manner Pippo can. Sheva is more an all around player who just happens to be a good striker whereas Pippo and Gila's expertise is to capitalize on the open goals and loose balls. Cherry Pickers is what I call them. I really think if Pippo is not available, something tells me it will be Gila's time to come through for us. I'd like Barca to leave the San Siro with their mouths wide open saying WTF happen??!!!
i think it will be a mistake not to play 2 strikers if pippo isnt available, i think he should definatly be starting, but if he cant then gila definatly should, from the inter match he really looked pumped up and really wanted to contribute despite the diving, he can give barcas defence some problems... we should go out there on tuesday so fired up and come out with a 3-0 win hopefully... just finish it off before they have the chance to do anything
FORZA MILAAAAANNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hitmannq8
16-04-2006, 13:25
This isnt good news at all. I hope the Pippo will recover in time, he is SO SO SO important. Especially for a team like Barca who dont have a perfect defence and goalkeeper. This is his type of game, to pounce on errors and rebounds. I pray he gets back on time.
If he doesnt, I dont see any other solution than the xmas tree formation. Gila simply isnt good enough yet, to start a CL semi against Barca.
Dr Milano
16-04-2006, 14:34
oh i would prefer to play Villareal than Barcelona this is gonna be a really hard game for milan ... my brother supports barcelona
savage_mau
16-04-2006, 17:58
I am sure that Milan can score goals. Valdes is also clumsy keeper (maybe like dida in bad form )and caused few goals this few years back.I havent heard he perform a perfect save in a big occation..milan playing cross from side with Cafu or Serginho will be perfect. just that gila maybe need more practive with header ..(after miss the cafu cross in inter match,hehe)
zlatanov
16-04-2006, 19:30
oh i would prefer to play Villareal than Barcelona this is gonna be a really hard game for milan ... my brother supports barcelona
well, come to think of it, I would rather have Milan play Belinzona rather than Villarreal but ... :5ok:
rahul.acm
16-04-2006, 20:06
We have high expectation but we should be prepared for anything! Its going to be hard to contain their attackers coz of their speed! so we might just get a surprise at home! be prepared
If we play CAfu-Maldini on the flanks it will be difficult to control Ronaldinho-Guly. I think we need Serginho.
And, just to let you know...I dreamed we won 3-0!! destroying Barca like we did against Juve, only Barca didnt score. Sheva,seedorf and nesta scored.
King tiger
17-04-2006, 08:06
I think that our midfield will play key role during the game.Gattuso,Seedorf and Pirlo must give 100%.We must crush them in midfield, al their actions come from midfield Etto and Larsson/Ezquerro score goals from Ronaldinho,Deco perfect passes, so i think that we must cut them off in midfield.I think that Pirlo must be on his best because he must:act like 5 defender sometimes,make pressure on their player,make passes that create goal opportunities(be a playmaker).With his recent form im not sure he can do it.
P.S:i have a feeling that Seedorf will score, its about time for him to be rewarded for his hard work :)
I'm afraid Inzaghi wont play... :(
I have a creepy feeling it will be an end of an era for this Milan, I hope I am wrong, but this squad seems to give its final breath in San Siro or later in Nou Camp. :cry:
Pippo is out, stam is in.... dida-serginho-kaladze-nesta-stam-pirlo-gattuso-seedorf-kaka-sheva-gila. I agree, seedorf-gattuso-pirlo need to play as they did against Juve, same tempo and power.
robybaggio
17-04-2006, 09:51
You know this game for me is feeling more like the final. I know I am disrespecting our opposing semi-finalists but I can't help feel more nervous and anxious about this one then last year final againts liverpool.
I mean if we get through(which we will ) I think I will be just as nervous being in the final as this semi. We will have gone through and beaten none other than Barca, BayernM, Lyon and PSV. Spanish, French, German and Dutch champions. Were also heads up againts the Italian champions too.
We would have to be odds on favourite purely from a objective point of view.
humanTORCH
17-04-2006, 10:00
I check the odds today and you know what it swing against barca :wow:
I prefer Milan being the underdogs but I think the pundits have change their minds at the last minute :firedev:
I still think we will take the tag as underdogs :hopefull:
We do well when odds are against us :wallbang:
I strongly believe we will win this game and the tie against Barca. My nervousness has slowly sipped away. I believe Carlo will pull something out of the bag, that will hit Barca right between the eyes. See you guys and gals in postmatch comments.
Forza Milan
I had a dream that Gila had a hell of a game causing all kinds of problems, unable to get that goal, but then suddenly he managed to role it in. Hope its a sign ;)
Egoistka
17-04-2006, 12:57
today i queued up 4 hours without getting any ticket for the first leg. the computer program went too busy and i heard there's still people queuing up in the afternoon.
Not bad though, as i've already booked the flights for Barcelona. The tickets aren't sure yet but me and Dragana will meet on Las Ramblas for a MM party all together.
I keep finger crossed for the tickets of the return leg to come.
anyone going to Barcelona?
Hey, Lucky you!!! :devf: Tell us your feelings after the trip. Enjoy yourself.
hitmannq8
17-04-2006, 12:58
Well Gila is about to start, and i really hoped that Rui would start..
heh i had a funny dream as well, but it was worse than yours.. i dreamt the dida made the same mistake that the Czech goalkeeper did in the Euro 96 final at extra-time..
Egoistka
17-04-2006, 13:16
.............................dida...........................
cafu.......nesta.......kaladze.......maldini.......
.........................pirlo....................
.........gattuso................seedorf.......
..............kaka'............serginho.........
...................shevchenko.............
maybe this? with serginho and kaka supporting sheva. Cautious but dangerous formation.
No, we not gonna play with one forward....Thats not Milan formation and its not gonna be successful. Surely we play with 2 strikers..I think Sheva - Inzaghi. Maldini might be on substitution..he is not into the play yet. Cafu is in the same situation as Maldini for now...so might be on substitution as well.
if..IF Stam is back to his 100% fitness, im sure Carlo will play him on the RB and Serginho on the left. Stam and Gattuso are the best option any team in the world has to stop Ronaldinho. But Ronaldinho,Eto'o and Guly will swich places all teh time so we will need to take over the players, not man mark them. I just hope Gila play the game of his life, we need him IN THE BOX so he can cause real problems. Otherwise, uts nothing from him.
savage_mau
17-04-2006, 13:25
well, Inzaghi is sure out. It leave Sheva pairing with gilardino in attact n hope that gila can score his first european goal against Barca which will be very sweet thing.
From sky sport.
Inzaghi doubt for Milan
Filippo Inzaghi is a major doubt for the first leg of Milan's UEFA Champions League semi-final against Barcelona.
The in-form striker is suffering from a high fever and tonsillitis ahead of Tuesday's encounter at San Siro.
Doctors have prescribed Inzaghi a course of antibiotics to treat the illness, but the outlook for a swift recovery is bleak.
Reports suggest that Inzaghi will not have shaken off the complaint in time to be available for the mouth-watering encounter.
If Inzaghi is ruled out of Tuesday's showdown, Milan coach Carlo Ancelotti is likely to turn to Alberto Gilardino to partner Andrei Shevchenko in attack.
Inzaghi had been a key figure in Milan's run to the semi-finals after scoring a crucial brace against French champions Lyon in the last round.
zlatanov
17-04-2006, 13:39
No, we not gonna play with one forward....Thats not Milan formation and its not gonna be successful. Surely we play with 2 strikers..I think Sheva - Inzaghi.
You might wanna consider using the word "might" when you said "it's not gonna be successful" cause you, and in that matter anyone else here, is hardly in the capacity to say what's gonna or not gonna work vs Barca ;). Plus, when we won the CL, we played a very similar formation - the above one is even more dangerous considering the speed of all 3 players up front - and it worked wonders. So, a X-tree can hardly be called "unsuccessful".
Also, if Carlo and Milan don't use the X-tree that often, it's because of our "beloved" I-know-it-all president's whims, rather than being slaves to trade marks or such.
As for Pippo, he is out of the game due to fever/bronchitus, so if you are so keen on playing with 2 forwards, that would mean playing Gila, your favorite guy in red and black ... now that might change your mind :)
This is my line-up for the game:
Dida
Cafu-Nesta-Stam-Maldini
Pirlo
Seedorf-Gattuso
Kaka
Sheva-Gila
Same old Milan from last year, that made it to the final.
About Kaladze...when Stam, Nesta or Maldini doing a good job in defence it's going unnoticed 'cause they are simply doing what's they supposed, but when Kaladze does the same everyone here shouts from top of a roof how great he is... I still prefere to see Nesta-Maldini\Stam in center, so we should relax a little bit with this so called "Kaladze great shape". I still think that 70% of Stam is equal to 100& of Kaladze.
And about our attack... some people here gave up to fast on Gila, but not me. I don't think that Inzaghi is better than Gila, and maybe tomorow we will see why. I think Gila has some skills that Inzaghi doesn't...
And what about all this sh*t, the Roni-mania that is going on? People treating him like he is god, and what's that BS I heard that Carlo put his posters in the locker room or whatever... WTF??? We can do this fools, we shouldn't be afraid. I have to admit that I'm getting goose-bumps when I think about the match, but we have to believe that it's in our hands. We have prestige, class... look at our players, every one of them if not a legend than at least a professional that made a huge mark in football community. We are the Grande Milan, if we give our all we should prevail.
Now if we lose, than it will be the biggest loss in the last 4-5 years. I mean previously when we lost we always had "good reasons" and we outclassed our opponent but simply because our stupidity let the victory slip (Depor, Liverpool...). But this time there will be no excuses, it's to live or to die. For the last 4 years everytime Milan gave their 100% u could be sure we would win no matter who is the opponent. So if we won't beat Barca... it's all over. This year is a corner-stone in Milan's history, what it's going to be??? Another nice team in the big history that won one Scudetto and one lucky CL, or a great team that dominated europe for half a decate and won atleast 2 CL cups (we still have a chanse next year, but only if we win this year). So people the stakes are high, our encounter with Barca will be historical, we the fans that lived through it will remember it for very long time.
Forza Milan!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a Rossoneri in my heart, don't mind all the nonsense I said before. Our squad is unique, it's built on such values that no money can buy, like companionship and devotion...love to your team. I'm proud to be a Milan fan, no matter what is the result tomorow. Our squad is made of heroes, legends, unique individuals... this team made us suffer and joy like almost nothing else in our life, tomorow we will stand together... AC MILAN.
Dude, you're posting like a completely different guy, totally different from the B.S. you were writing before. Whatever changed about you is good, I thought you weren't a real Milan fan before but now I've change my mind. Keep up the good posts, and I agree with mostly everything you said ;)
Bu if Stam is not 100% I still believe Kaladze will be the better decision. And where did you here about Carlo putting Ronny posters on the locker room wall? Sound like total BS to me, he is a good player but why would MILAN want his posters.
And where did you here about Carlo putting Ronny posters on the locker room wall? Sound like total BS to me, he is a good player but why would MILAN want his posters. It was said in the official site.
"the coach fielded questions from the media on reports in Marca that he had a photo of Ronaldinho on his office wall, with a deft: 'And I have one of Rijkaard too ...' "
It was a joke so the atmosphere will be more relaxed, nothing more :)
Dude, you're posting like a completely different guy, totally different from the B.S. you were writing before. Whatever changed about you is good, I thought you weren't a real Milan fan before but now I've change my mind. Keep up the good posts, and I agree with mostly everything you said ;)
Bu if Stam is not 100% I still believe Kaladze will be the better decision. And where did you here about Carlo putting Ronny posters on the locker room wall? Sound like total BS to me, he is a good player but why would MILAN want his posters.
A leopard can change its spots
Well Gila is about to start, and i really hoped that Rui would start..
heh i had a funny dream as well, but it was worse than yours.. i dreamt the dida made the same mistake that the Czech goalkeeper did in the Euro 96 final at extra-time..
You arent supposed to share bad reams only good ones :devf:
Im gonna die untill tommorow, cant wait. WE ARE MILAN, 6 times CHAMPION OF EUROPE, not Barca, Milan! Sheva,Gila,Kaka,Sedorf,MAldini,Nesta,Serginho,Gattuso..........lets destroy Barca tommorow with some crazy play!!
Egoistka
17-04-2006, 15:43
You might wanna consider using the word "might" when you said "it's not gonna be successful" cause you, and in that matter anyone else here, is hardly in the capacity to say what's gonna or not gonna work vs Barca ;). Plus, when we won the CL, we played a very similar formation - the above one is even more dangerous considering the speed of all 3 players up front - and it worked wonders. So, a X-tree can hardly be called "unsuccessful".
Also, if Carlo and Milan don't use the X-tree that often, it's because of our "beloved" I-know-it-all president's whims, rather than being slaves to trade marks or such.
As for Pippo, he is out of the game due to fever/bronchitus, so if you are so keen on playing with 2 forwards, that would mean playing Gila, your favorite guy in red and black ... now that might change your mind :)
If Pippo is not gonna be alright - then Sheva and Gila...but not Sheva only - that is for sure. I am not putting a "stamp of incapacity" on Gila yet...if thats what you mean...If he plays in starting line up he can very possibly score against Barca. He should do his best, I m sure he understands it...thats his kinda last chance to prove his right for the place in the first team. Although Pippo is still much better (at least couse he is experienced).
We cannot play christmas tree against Barca, coz we need to score...one striker is not enough for that, even if its Sheva.
Also I think that Serginho is a very necessery figure for this match - he has a very high running speed. Gattuso with no doubt is necessery guy for this match to stop Barca's attacks in the middle of the field. Kaka, Sheva, Nesta, Pirlo and Dida with no question are going to start.
ukrainian_CA
17-04-2006, 15:44
Im gonna die untill tommorow, cant wait. WE ARE MILAN, 6 times CHAMPION OF EUROPE, not Barca, Milan! Sheva,Gila,Kaka,Sedorf,MAldini,Nesta,Serginho,Gattuso..........lets destroy Barca tommorow with some crazy play!!
I share your anxiety. I have a weird feeling it will be Gila who will be the MoM tomorrow.
MILAN SQUAD FOR BARCA
17/04/2006
GOALKEEPERS: Dida, Kalac.
DEFENDERS: Cafu, Kaladze, Maldini, Nesta, Jankulovski, Simic, Stam.
MIDFIELDERS: Ambrosini, Gattuso, Kakà, Pirlo, Rui Costa, Seedorf, Serginho, Vogel.
STRIKERS: Amoroso, Gilardino, Shevchenko.
ukrainian_CA
17-04-2006, 15:50
If Pippo is not gonna be alright - then Sheva and Gila...but not Sheva only - that is for sure. I am not putting a "stamp of incapacity" on Gila yet...if thats what you mean...If he plays in starting line up he can very possibly score against Barca. He should do his best, I m sure he understands it...thats his kinda last chance to prove his right for the place in the first team. Although Pippo is still much better (at least couse he is experienced).
We cannot play christmas tree against Barca, coz we need to score...one striker is not enough for that, even if its Sheva.
I respectfully disagree with you - I think we can play one forward tomorrow.
This IS the 1st leg, it is a chess game and we are playing the black at the San Siro's pitch - cannot afford to allow Barca to score.
Nou Camp's game will be our white, we will have to score.
These all valid until all hell breaks loose in either game. Remember Chelsea - Barca last year?
Egoistka
17-04-2006, 16:12
I respectfully disagree with you - I think we can play one forward tomorrow.
This IS the 1st leg, it is a chess game and we are playing the black at the San Siro's pitch - cannot afford to allow Barca to score.
Nou Camp's game will be our white, we will have to score.
These all valid until all hell breaks loose in either game. Remember Chelsea - Barca last year?
Oh..lets play 5-5 then...Hoping that Kaka will score and try not to consider any goals...:)
ukrainian_CA
17-04-2006, 16:22
Oh..lets play 5-5 then...Hoping that Kaka will score and try not to consider any goals...:)
I read a flier somewhere at my work place: "Sacrasm is just another service I provide"...
It was said in the official site.
"the coach fielded questions from the media on reports in Marca that he had a photo of Ronaldinho on his office wall, with a deft: 'And I have one of Rijkaard too ...' "
It was a joke so the atmosphere will be more relaxed, nothing more :)
OK, good.
Respecting the enemy is good, but worshipping him is not :D
savage_mau
17-04-2006, 17:02
I share your anxiety. I have a weird feeling it will be Gila who will be the MoM tomorrow.
I have the feeling that gila will score his first CL goal 2.
Milan_Mad
17-04-2006, 17:18
Am also sure that sheva will add to his champs total: am pumped up for this game 2moz. 19 hours or so to go :5schal:
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