View Full Version : AC Milan make offer for Betis striker Oliveira
http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=9274
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/AC_Milan_make_offer_for_Betis_strik_08252006.html
Check it out boys and girls, I have not seen this player but I hope he is good, if you have seen him play, knows how he plays, seen him play, plz share your thoughts.
I have faith in management, and now I understand timing was off this time around, but we will succeed, trust the boys cos they will always fight for us, ALWAYS!
Always fight for us by letting quite a few great players slip through our grasp and head to other teams ?
Oliveira is ok, i've never thought of him as anything spectacular. Maybe he could surprise us all and settle in like 'Chevanton', 'Suazo', etc and score a nice amount of goals .... but i doubt it.
Always fight for us by letting quite a few great players slip through our grasp and head to other teams ?
Oliveira is ok, i've never thought of him as anything spectacular. Maybe he could surprise us all and settle in like 'Chevanton', 'Suazo', etc and score a nice amount of goals .... but i doubt it.
Thanks Jim_UK, looks like ronnie is signed on the some other threads, mods plz kill this Topic, my mistake, sorry.
going home to cry a little, but i hope for the best :cry:
eh ? Why kill the topic ?
It looks like we're interested in the player ... so who knows, maybe we'll get him aswell as Ronaldo, or just Oliveira on his own ..... or maybe not at all ...
haha, i just don't know !
wilson19860516
25-08-2006, 06:37
Oliveira is a good player~i hope this negotiation will be successful~
P.S.The Gazzetta said AC Milan will still try to land Ronaldo even if they are successful in capturing Oliveira.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 06:38
let's wait for a confirmation of that news first ... to kill a thread is always an easy thing to do ... and feels nice too ... just kidding :tong:
wipe those tears away, Vinesh ... lets give Ronie a chance, should he fail, you can cry as much as you wish after that ;)
let's wait for a confirmation of that news first ... to kill a thread is always an easy thing to do ... and feels nice too ... just kidding :tong:
wipe those tears away, Vinesh ... lets give Ronie a chance, should he fail, you can cry as much as you wish after that ;)
Thanks man, this means allot, we will all go through this together.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 07:03
Thanks man, this means allot, we will all go through this together.
well, I guess you won't have to cry after all :grinser: - the Ronaldo-to-Milan negotiations are officially over - it's on www.acmilan.com
Ronaldo will sign contract this friday.
Ronaldo is down... Pitty...
As for Oliveira, apparently, his agent is the same as Ronaldinho's, i.e. Ronaldinho's brother...
Therefore, speculation starts as to see Ronaldinho quitting Barça, since he's asking for a new contract, which he might not get. The problem would be the following: if Ronaldinho gets the wage raise he's asking for, he will be paid far more than any other star player in Barcelona, and God knows how many stars they have down there...
Anyway, I don't quite care about that, for I don't quite like Ronaldinho, plus this is off topic... (I just hope that if ever he came, which I seriously doubt, Milan won't ever get rid of magic Kakà !)
Greetz,
M
I really wish we would just use the money we might offer Betis to try and get Suazo, they have to be a similar price ... plus Suazo is Serie A experienced.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 07:27
I really wish we would just use the money we might offer Betis to try and get Suazo, they have to be a similar price ... plus Suazo is Serie A experienced.
I was thinking the same thing ... but maybe Oliveira has something Suazo doesn't - a EU passport. Maybe Milan wants to keep their options on that issue opened possibly for other targets.
I think i can wait for a day or two hey ythere is still one week before the transfer window closes so lets not lose hope berlu will give us something we will be happy with i HOPE soooo.
Graeme C
25-08-2006, 07:30
Oliveira could just be another sobis rumour.....
On calciomercato it talks about the notice on the official site and then says that Betis want 18 million euros (around £12 million) and we've offered 10 million euros (around £6.5 million)
Suazo must surely have an EU passport, if not he must be close to getting one as he's been in Italy for quite a few years. Isn't it after 5 years you get citizenship ?
Brasileiro
25-08-2006, 07:34
I really wish we would just use the money we might offer Betis to try and get Suazo, they have to be a similar price ... plus Suazo is Serie A experienced.
Of course this has that to be considered, but Gilla experience in Serie A was not expressed in Milan :moan:
Oliveira is a good player, nothing spetacular, but has an important characteristic, besides to be a CF, can create his own shot...
Graeme C
25-08-2006, 07:37
at this moment, Iaquinta deal has to be the favourite....
Billy1969
25-08-2006, 07:46
Oliveira > Iaquinta about 5 times. Only thing in favour of Iaquinta is his pace. All the rest like skill, shooting, ball control, dribbling, endurance, ... are in favour of Oliveira. Both are injury prone though.
Last season he scored 22 goals for Betis and some matches he played only 20-30 mins as a sub.
With Milan's midfield > Betis midfield for ball supplies he could make more. Of course he scored those 22 in La Liga and Spain Cup matches but also 3 in CL, the big mistery is if he will get this rendement in Serie A.
In all he's a good signing considering we are at the end of transfer season and there aren't any options left.
My dream signing Tevez is ohw to Rennes for a year and then to Chelsea according to latest reports.
Maltese Charlie
25-08-2006, 07:47
Oliveira could just be another sobis rumour.....
It can be, but I don't think so, as time is very short now.
Anyway, if Milan sign Oliveira, he will take the place of Amoruso and not Scheva's
(at least that what I read early this morning on La Gazzetta.)
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 07:50
On calciomercato it talks about the notice on the official site and then says that Betis want 18 million euros (around £12 million) and we've offered 10 million euros (around £6.5 million)
Suazo must surely have an EU passport, if not he must be close to getting one as he's been in Italy for quite a few years. Isn't it after 5 years you get citizenship ?
don't know, Jim ... each country has dif period or residence before a passport is given. In most cases, I believe it's indeed 5 years, but not always. As for Suazo, I just chesked on the net and he's been with Cagliari since the '99-'00 season, so yeah, if it takes 5 years to get an Italian passport, he should have one by now.
As for Oliveira, to be honest, I don' think I have ever watched the guy play ... I often hear the name "Oliveira" but I am not sure when it was this one and when it was another "Oliveira" they were referring to :guw: ... which is eactly why this move is complete surprise tome - Braida did kep his word, didn't he :rone: - so, I am basically relying on that Milan management knows what they are doing :5love:
I am also keeping fingers crossed that since Oliveira is a relatively unknown name and won't be too expensive, Milan would go for another forward too - Suazo maybe ;) - since it looks a bit like a gamble to me to start a season with hope that Oliveira would fill the gap that Sheva left behind. And also, by not splashing too much of a single forward, we will probably have more moneys left for a midfielder or two and a defender or two ... and maybe a GK from a certain Serie B side ;)
I thought it was after 6 years for citizenship.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 08:01
I thought it was after 6 years for citizenship.
this could indeed be the case in Italy but even then Suazo should be able to get a citizenship because he came to cagliari for the 1999-2000 season ... that's more that's 7 years ago.
If Oliveira is to be our forward then i guess that's ok if he's replacing Amoroso. Hopefully our management don't see him as the man to score the goals Shevchenko did.
this could indeed be the case in Italy but even then Suazo should be able to get a citizenship because he came to cagliari for the 1999-2000 season ... that's more that's 7 years ago.
Suazo married a Sardinian girl last year. Doesn't that alone qualify him?
As for Oliveira, this was on Yahoo:
AC Milan bid for Betis striker Oliveira
AC Milan have made a 10 million euro (12.7 million dollar) bid for Real Betis striker Ricardo Oliveira.
The Gazzetta dello Sport on Friday said AC Milan officials were in Seville on Thursday to make their offer for the 26-year-old Brazil international.
The Milan officials were already in Spain trying to complete the signing of Ronaldo from Real Madrid, but talks between the two clubs have stalled.
The Gazzetta said AC Milan will still try to land Ronaldo even if they are successful in capturing Oliveira.
Oliveira was a Spanish league winner with Valencia in 2003 and moved to Betis the following year.
Last year he was loaned out to Brazilian side Sao Paolo after knee surgery.
He has scored four goals in 11 appearances for Brazil.
Oliveira helped Brazil win the Copa America in 2004 and the Confederations Cup in 2005, but he was not included in this year's World Cup squad.
Personally, I've always liked Oliveira. He's a proven goalscorer, does a lot of things well and would be a fine addition to the squad. I know many posters here like to bash whoever Milan is about to sign because they're not as good as Shevchenko, but we really have to move on. Nobody we sign will be as good as Shevchenko. We just need to find a good player to take his place and continue to improve the whole squad. Oliveira would fit into that plan very well.
I like oliveira much more than ronaldo or iaquinta and i think he's fine enough to fit in out squat to replace sheva. He may not be as good as him, but he'll fill the gap just fine. With some luck we can get a hot goalscorer in him.
That said, i doubt berlu will please me :)
How is he a proven goal scorer ? Has he done well in the CL ? Has he played in Italy ? No is the answer to both of these questions.
And before anyone jumps on their high horse i'm not bashing him i'm asking a question.
I think we're all aware that we won't be able to replace Shevchenko.
Are we losing our appeal?
I see other clubs easily signing players... Hell, even Valencia seems to be more active and successful in the transfer market.
I guess we will need to wait before a few disaster seasons before we see a Rui or Nesta type signing.
Oliveira? If we were Roma then i would be happy.
I guess we're not the same Milan anymore.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 09:09
here are some clips of Ricardo Goliveira :):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsAtO8SFnOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGsmVJXTqm0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e33Qbu4j1b8
and this is why we go for Brazilians ;):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN245dA_QfY&mode=related&search=
How is he a proven goal scorer ? Has he done well in the CL ? Has he played in Italy ? No is the answer to both of these questions.
And before anyone jumps on their high horse i'm not bashing him i'm asking a question.
I think we're all aware that we won't be able to replace Shevchenko.
Well, two years ago he scored 23 goals for Betis in la Liga. He had always been a top goalscorer in Brazil and had eight goals in his 21 games at Valencia, including a fantastic goal against Barcelona. As for the Champions League, his season was shortened because of his injury last year against Chelsea, but in five CL games he scored three goals. So I'd say he has certainly proven himself as a goalscorer and although his history in the Champions League is not a long one, he has done quite well in the opportunities he's had.
As for the question of having played in Italy, obviously he hasn't. But then again, neither have Tevez, Torres or any number of other strikers who might do just fine if they did.
Great videos indeed.
Only thing with videos is : from the moment you take 35 goals a person has scored (in an undefined term), and you put them on a line, it makes him a top player on the video. This works for (almost) any striker... Until you have seen him play at least two or three complete games, you cannot judge him, IMO.
But the figures go in his favour... With such stats, he can't be a totally bad player...
M
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 09:25
Great videos indeed.
Only thing with videos is : from the moment you take 35 goals a person has scored (in an undefined term), and you put them on a line, it makes him a top player on the video. This works for (almost) any striker... Until you have seen him play at least two or three complete games, you cannot judge him, IMO.
But the figures go in his favour... With such stats, he can't be a totally bad player...
M
that's true and I am sure everyone would agree on this ... the point of posting them was that many people, including me, don't have much of an idea, who Ricardo Oliveira is, what's his style, what he looks like, etc, etc. He is definitely not a name you hear all they long like that of Tevez, Torres, Fat Ronie ;), Little Ronie, and others ... and his team Betis is not on most fans radar ... at least I know it's not on mine :sagrin:
If he carried his best Betis form over to us, he'd be a good addition. But likewise you have to say if he was that great why hasn't anyone else made a move for him ?
If he carried his best Betis form over to us, he'd be a good addition. But likewise you have to say if he was that great why hasn't anyone else made a move for him ?
Jim, I think I'm going to nickname you "Half Empty" because you never fail to look at the negative. :neww:
Well, as far as we know nobody has actually made a move for Tevez, Adriano, Suazo or any number of strikers who could be named.
How is he a proven goal scorer ? Has he done well in the CL ? Has he played in Italy ? No is the answer to both of these questions.
And before anyone jumps on their high horse i'm not bashing him i'm asking a question.
I think we're all aware that we won't be able to replace Shevchenko.You really don't know much about anything, don't you? Ricardo carry Betis ALONE on the last Champions League, Betis were about to qualify for the next round till Ricardo Carvalho brake his leg.
*** Marino, refrain from using "sharp" language, OK ***
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 09:43
If he carried his best Betis form over to us, he'd be a good addition. But likewise you have to say if he was that great why hasn't anyone else made a move for him ?
good question but given the incredible number of talanted players in Brazil, i guess it's more than understandable if a very good player is left in the shadow for a little longer and comes to prominence at a later stage in their career. Given the competition, not eveyone of those talants can make a direct move from Brazil to a club like Milan for instance.
Take per se Sobis, if he wasn't lucky enough to be part of the CLC winning team of Internacional, he would have never scored those 2 goles in the final and this hype over him would have most probably never taken place ... but despite everything, he will probbaly end up where? - In Racing Santander whose main goal for next season would most probably be to avoid relegation.
Also, if being famous was a guarantee of being a success, then one should expect that overhyped players like Diego, Luis Fabiano, Fred etc, etc would have taken Europe by storm but thats hardly the case so far, especially for the first two.
Well, as far as we know nobody has actually made a move for Tevez, Adriano, Suazo or any number of strikers who could be named.
For my part i should have put why no one else seems to have been linked with him rather than why no one has made a move for him. All those players you mentioned Rick have been linked with a variety of clubs, wether they are accurate links is anyone's guess. But you get my point.
If he was as good as his goal scoring record suggests then surely someone else would have been linked with him ? Like Zlatanov said how do we know we won't get another Luis Fabiano ? A player who promises much but delivers little. Fabiano's record was unbelievable at Sao Paulo, yet over here it's not so good.
I'm just trying to determine his pedigree.
You really don't know much about anything, don't you? Ricardo carry Betis ALONE on the last Champions League, Betis were about to qualify for the next round till Ricardo Carvalho brake his leg. do some research before typing bull**** the next time.
How is what i wrote bull ? Has he set the CL alight ? The answer would be no, but i agree this is largely down to his lack of matches in the CL, given time he might do quite well i'm sure. But the answer is still no, so it's not bull is it. You've jumped to the wrong conclusion as i was asking a question not bashing the player and i'm sick of having to constantly write little lines to defend my actions from the likes of you.
Next time try taking your brain out your ass and read my posts with a bit more care and attention and you might understand the points i'm making.
"How is he a proven goal scorer ? Has he done well in the CL ? Has he played in Italy ? No is the answer to both of these questions."
You answer your own question, Jim.
*** Patience is not one of my best known virtues. Thanks ***
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 10:07
For my part i should have put why no one else seems to have been linked with him rather than why no one has made a move for him. All those players you mentioned Rick have been linked with a variety of clubs, wether they are accurate links is anyone's guess. But you get my point.
If he was as good as his goal scoring record suggests then surely someone else would have been linked with him ? Like Zlatanov said how do we know we won't get another Luis Fabiano ? A player who promises much but delivers little. Fabiano's record was unbelievable at Sao Paulo, yet over here it's not so good.
I'm just trying to determine his pedigree.
How is what i wrote bull ? Has he set the CL alight ? The answer would be no, but i agree this is largely down to his lack of matches in the CL, given time he might do quite well i'm sure. But the answer is still no, so it's not bull is it. You've jumped to the wrong conclusion as i was asking a question not bashing the player and i'm sick of having to constantly write little lines to defend my actions from the likes of you.
Next time try taking your brain out your ass and read my posts with a bit more care and attention and you might understand the points i'm making.
Jim, Luis Fabiano was overhyped because of his record in Brazil but he flunked every single test he was given in Europe. Messed up in the French League, didn't make it in Porto, and now in Sevilla his experinece isn't any dif either, at least from what I know. I gave him as an example of how a player who made all the headlines in Brazil and lots of teams were interested in, including Milan, could prove to be a total failure after all. Same goes for Diego.
Oliveira seems to be one of the most important player in Betis and has an excellent goalscoring record in Spain, and that's not just for one season, I think. True, he may have not been involved in CL but he's at least proven himself in Spain and also his price is relatively low ... he maybe a risk but seems a very capable player - good sense for goal, good with the ball in his feet, and very pacy too ... IMO, he is more than a measured risk to go for ... and he has obviously done something right to have Milan after him.
For my part i should have put why no one else seems to have been linked with him rather than why no one has made a move for him. All those players you mentioned Rick have been linked with a variety of clubs, wether they are accurate links is anyone's guess. But you get my point.
If he was as good as his goal scoring record suggests then surely someone else would have been linked with him ? Like Zlatanov said how do we know we won't get another Luis Fabiano ? A player who promises much but delivers little. Fabiano's record was unbelievable at Sao Paulo, yet over here it's not so good.
I'm just trying to determine his pedigree.
Well, there could be a number of reasons why he hasn't been linked to other clubs (although he has actually been linked to Fenerbache, for what it's worth). For one thing, he's been back in Brazil rehabilitating from his injury. Also, until the past couple of weeks there has been no indication that the player was looking for a move or that Betis was willing to sell him.
The difference between Oliveira and Fabiano is that Oliveira has proven himself in Spain. Of course that's no guarantee of success in Serie A, but the same can be said of Fernando Torres and many others. If you're Milan, you have to watch the player and trust that if he can perform at such a high level in Spain, he can do the same in Italy.
In fact, speaking of Torres, Oliveira has scored more goals than Torres over the past two seasons despite having his season cut short by injury in November last year. Plus he does a lot of other things to help his teammates.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 10:14
I imagine Galliani playing Football Manager at the moment of searching for new players:
Age: 28 or more
Nationality: Brasil
Jim, Luis Fabiano was overhyped because of his record in Brazil but he flunked every single test he was given in Europe. Messed up in the French League, didn't make it in Porto, and now in Sevilla his experinece isn't any dif either, at least from what I know. I gave him as an example of how a player who made all the headlines in Brazil and lots of teams were interested in, including Milan, could prove to be a total failure after all. Same goes for Diego.
Oliveira seems to be one of the most important player in Betis and has an excellent goalscoring record in Spain, and that's not just for one season, I think. True, he may have not been involved in CL but he's at least proven himself in Spain and also his price is relatively low ... he maybe a risk but seems a very capable player - good sense for goal, good with the ball in his feet, and very pacy too ... IMO, he is more than a measured risk to go for ... and he has obviously done something right to have Milan after him.
He did play in five CL matches for Betis last year (including the match against Chelsea in which he was injured) and scored three goals. So he's made the best of his limited CL opportunities.
Good assessment of the player! :v103:
']I imagine Galliani playing Football Manager at the moment of searching for new players:
Age: 28 or more
Nationality: Brasil
Why would he be after Oliveira then? He's only just turned 26.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 10:19
Why would he be after Oliveira then? He's only just turned 26.
Its a typo.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 10:21
He did play in five CL matches for Betis last year (including the match against Chelsea in which he was injured) and scored three goals. So he's made the best of his limited CL opportunities.
Oh, yeah, I remember reading about this and more specifically about him getting injured in the Chelski game.
Well, I guess he isn't exactly some no-name guy Galliani just googled on the net or found in FM ;) ...
Not sure if Milan see in him a Sheva replacement or want him to give more versatility to our attack in place of Amoroso, but I for one would prefer us paying this money for Oliveira than for Sobis, for instance.
Let's see what happens.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 10:28
Well, with Oliveira flying to Milan I guess a deal is rather close.
Edit: Marca reporting its a done deal. 15M Euros.
Oh, yeah, I remember reading about this and more specifically about him getting injured in the Chelski game.
Well, I guess he isn't exactly some no-name guy Galliani just googled on the net or found in FM ;) ...
Not sure if Milan see in him a Sheva replacement or want him to give more versatility to our attack in place of Amoroso, but I for one would prefer us paying this money for Oliveira than for Sobis, for instance.
Let's see what happens.
Yes, I would feel comfortable with Oliveira. Obviously there are never guarantees of a player settling even when they move from club to club within the same league, but Oliveira has proven himself in Europe. In addition to playing in the Champions League for Betis, he was an important player in Valencia's lineup in 2003-04 when they won both the la Liga title (thanks in large part to Oliveira's screaming long-range goal against Barcelona that gave Valencia a 1-0 victory at Camp Nou) and the UEFA Cup. So he has been part of championship clubs in Europe as well. I don't know what more he would need to do to prove himself.
']Well, with Oliveira flying to Milan I guess a deal is rather close.
Edit: Marca reporting its a done deal. 15M Euros.
Wonderful! :p017:
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 10:42
I guess we will have to follow his performance and if his knee acts up (Again). And he also had trouble of their own, so he doesnt come clean (people like to talk about this, or so it seems).
Dr Milano
25-08-2006, 10:55
Ricardo Olivera is a quiet good player one that i like to see at milan so yeah i hope things work out but even with his signing i ll like to see milan get ronaldo :p157: or someone else more signings i dont think it should end at olivera
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 10:58
Ricardo Olivera is a quiet good player one that i like to see at milan so yeah i hope things work out but even with his signing i ll like to see milan get ronaldo :p157: or someone else more signings i dont think it should end at olivera
Well, if we sign Oliveira and call it a day (Read: no more transfers) we are due for a long season.
']Well, if we sign Oliveira and call it a day (Read: no more transfers) we are due for a long season.
Would you care to elaborate?
']Well, with Oliveira flying to Milan I guess a deal is rather close.
Edit: Marca reporting its a done deal. 15M Euros.
And okay, before we get ahead of ourselves here, I just read the articles on Marca and on AS. The Marca story said "it seems" the clubs have reached an agreement, but there is nothing official. AS says that Oliveira has flown to Milan for a medical and that the deal will hinge on him passing that medical. They are reporting a fee of 12 million euros.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 11:08
Would you care to elaborate?
First, let me say its just another opinion. But IMO if we go into the season with the squad we currently have + Oliveira, I think we wont have success in Europe and would have a difficult time battling Inter (+8). But although we can beg to differ, only time will tell. Im thinking "On paper" and games are not played "on paper".
Edit: Radio Marca reported its a "done deal" (read it on Betis Forum) and the online newspaper now changed its headline. What before was a done deal, now is a medical away from being official (common sense).
Fine, Oliveira ius a good palyer. But we sold SHEVA. And now we bought Oliveira??????
We have bad relationships with Real, Juve, Inter, Chelsea..... WE lost soo many good players that I dont care about this Oliveira ****! This is shamefull, and this board needs to work hard,and not just expect players to come rushing towards Milan. We still need RB, and our CM in not covered completely as well. Oliveira? Im sure Barca is so scared right now....
']First, let me say its just another opinion. But IMO if we go into the season with the squad we currently have + Oliveira, I think we wont have success in Europe and would have a difficult time battling Inter (+8). But although we can beg to differ, only time will tell. Im thinking "On paper" and games are not played "on paper".
Well, as I pointed out above, Oliveira played a key role in Valencia's Spanish title in 2003-04 and in their UEFA Cup championship the same season. And he was performing admirably in the Champions League for Betis last season before being injured. So he is obviously no stranger to success and has been a clutch performer in big games. On paper, I'd say that's pretty damned good. It's not bad on the pitch either.
Fine, Oliveira ius a good palyer. But we sold SHEVA. And now we bought Oliveira??????
We have bad relationships with Real, Juve, Inter, Chelsea..... WE lost soo many good players that I dont care about this Oliveira ****! This is shamefull, and this board needs to work hard,and not just expect players to come rushing towards Milan. We still need RB, and our CM in not covered completely as well. Oliveira? Im sure Barca is so scared right now....
Some of you will complain no matter who Milan signs. I've never seen such a pessimistic lot in my life.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 11:15
']First, let me say its just another opinion. But IMO if we go into the season with the squad we currently have + Oliveira, I think we wont have success in Europe and would have a difficult time battling Inter (+8). But although we can beg to differ, only time will tell. Im thinking "On paper" and games are not played "on paper".
I tend to agree. I have full confidence in our squad but if we are going to aim at both CL and Serie A, I believe we need more depth, not in the squad but in quality, otherwise we would probably end up seeing Seedorf, Pirlo, Gattuso play again and again and they are not machines.
IMO at least one defender, preferably two - a CD and a cafu-type RB, and at least one more quality mid are needed to complete the squad. Extra luxury could be another forward like Suazo and a GK if Dida is to be let go.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 11:16
Well, as I pointed out above, Oliveira played a key role in Valencia's Spanish title in 2003-04 and in their UEFA Cup championship the same season. And he was performing admirably in the Champions League for Betis last season before being injured. So he is obviously no stranger to success and has been a clutch performer in big games. On paper, I'd say that's pretty damned good. It's not bad on the pitch either.
When Valencia won that title, Oliveira played around 20 games (some more I guess, closer to 25). Thats almost half season. Maybe he was important during some crucial games, but he played little. And this is always the same case with Oliveira and I dont think Milan needs another striker that misses his big share of games during a season. We are used to that with Inzaghi. And we dont have Sheva to cover our back.
Well, there's still almost a week left in the transfer period. Still time to acquire more players. I haven't heard anyone at Milan suggest that only a striker will be bought.
Some of you will complain no matter who Milan signs. I've never seen such a pessimistic lot in my life.
Rick, we sold Shevchenko and bought OLIVEIRA!!! If you cant see something wrong in there you have a problem. yes,yes, Im pesimistic...luckily for you, you are not.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 11:20
Well, there's still almost a week left in the transfer period. Still time to acquire more players. I haven't heard anyone at Milan suggest that only a striker will be bought.
I really believe Milan will buy some other players, although Im not sure one of those will be a striker.
']When Valencia won that title, Oliveira played around 20 games (some more I guess, closer to 25). Thats almost half season. Maybe he was important during some crucial games, but he played little. And this is always the same case with Oliveira and I dont think Milan needs another striker that misses his big share of games during a season. We are used to that with Inzaghi. And we dont have Sheva to cover our back.
Again, you're not looking at the whole picture. That was his first season in Europe and he didn't play regularly early because he was still settling in. But as the season progressed, he became one of their best players and was a clutch performer (as I mentioned above, scoring a fantastic goal to beat Barcelona at Nou Camp). The following season he scored 23 goals in 37 games for Betis, including a goal in their victory in the Copa del Rey final. Last year he missed most of the season after a bad tackle by Carvalho injured his knee. It was a freak accident. He is not a player with a particular history of missing games due to injury.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 11:24
Rick, we sold Shevchenko and bought OLIVEIRA!!! If you cant see something wrong in there you have a problem. yes,yes, Im pesimistic...luckily for you, you are not.
your argument is based on lots of assumptions:
1) Oliveira is necessary an average player since he doesn't cost 40 mil
2) A 40-mil striker like Torres would be actually able to replace Sheva ... or at least do so better than Oliveira
I say this because I am absolutely sure that if we sign Torres, you would be extatic over it.
And I am not sure, but I have a feeling you aren't very familiar with Oliveira and dismiss him simply because there is no Torres-like hype over him in Spain. Let's give the guy a chance, then you'll have enough opportunities to go after him
Rick, we sold Shevchenko and bought OLIVEIRA!!! If you cant see something wrong in there you have a problem. yes,yes, Im pesimistic...luckily for you, you are not.
So who do you propose that Milan buy who is as good as Shevchenko? Personally, I don't know of anyone who is that good who would be available (if anyone even exists). Life went on without van Basten. Milan brought in George Weah and he performed admirably. Life will go on without Shevchenko. It has to. Oliveira is a very good player and considering how late Milan has had to wait because of the uncertainty surrounding the scandal, I think they will have done quite well to get him should he pass the medical and the deal be completed. Milan is not about any single player. Milan is a team.
your argument is based on lots of assumptions:
1) Oliveira is necessary an average player since he doesn't cost 40 mil
2) A 40-mil striker like Torres would be actually able to replace Sheva ... or at least do so better than Oliveira
I say this because I am absolutely sure that if we sign Torres, you would be extatic over it.
And I am not sure, but I have a feeling you aren't very familiar with Oliveira and dismiss him simply because there is no Torres-like hype over him in Spain. Let's give the guy a chance, then you'll have enough opportunities to go after him
Exactly. In fact, Oliveira has accomplished far more in Spain than has Torres. And that's true whether we're talking about stats, championships, coming through as a clutch performer in big games or performing in European competitions. Torres has a lot of ability and great potential, but as I've said, he's a diamond in the rough. He's not consistent and not a polished player. I'm actually much happier to get Oliveira for 12-15 million euros than to take a chance on blowing 40 on Torres. At least this way there is a lot of money left to buy other players and build up the squad.
Well, when we signed Sheva he was among the most coveted player in Europe (so was his partner Rebrov) - and we got him.
When we signed Kaka, Chelsea was snapping at his heels to make Milan make a hasten decision to sign him - even with Rui and Rivaldo still in the team
So, you can't blame the Milan fans here for not being too estatic with signing a relatively unknown player, that just had 1 good season in Europe - after selling arguably the best striker in europe.
The milan management has made their fair share good vs bad buys...
So this brings us back to square one - It's a GAMBLE!
No Zlatanov, you are not right. I wouldnt be extatic ower Torres, becouse I've already told all of you how Torres still needs to develop hi game in Milanello.But he has potential to be top striker in europe. I've seen Oliveira milion times, and AS I'VE SAID, he IS a good player. But he is not a player that can make a difference like Tevez or quality Torres. And who can replace Sheva? no one of course....so becouse of that, I've suggested,many times, that we invest money in defence and a CM. Buying class CD and RB, and a midfielder like Joaquim, Maxi and so on....we could compensate our shorts in attack.
So, bassically, if we, for some unknown reason, cant sign class forward, lets built our team in other critical points. But we are not doing even that. And becouse of that I cant be happy!! I can smile if you want, but this is not good transfer summer by us.
You're making him sound like the best player on the planet, lets be a little more realistic. He's a good player, nothing more, nothing less as yet.
Well, when we signed Sheva he was among the most coveted player in Europe (so was his partner Rebrov) - and we got him.
Sheva worked out great. Rebrov was a complete bust. So you've just made part of my point. It's always a gamble. It would be a gamble no matter who was bought. But Milan has to buy somebody, so why not give the guy a chance before you start proclaiming failure?
Also, Oliveira has had 2 1/2 good seasons in Europe, not one.
Hes an AWESOME player. 1 million times better than TORRES and similar to Sheva.
And who can replace Sheva? no one of course....so becouse of that, I've suggested,many times, that we invest money in defence and a CM. Buying class CD and RB, and a midfielder like Joaquim, Maxi and so on....we could compensate our shorts in attack.
Given this belief, you actually should be quite happy. Milan apparently will sign a very good striker at an inexpensive price and have lots of money left over for defenders and midfielders.
I still think that if he was as stellar as his 'pro' camp are making out, other teams would have singled him out for a move by now.
I still think that if he was as stellar as his 'pro' camp are making out, other teams would have singled him out for a move by now.
So what you're saying, then, is that you believe other clubs are better at judging talent than Milan and you always expect Milan to be behind the curve and come in after players only after they have "proven" themselves through newspaper links to other clubs? Ah, Mr. Half Empty.... :diablo:
The fact is, we don't know how many clubs might have inquired about Oliveira. Not all negotiations are conducted in the newspapers (and some which are turn out to be fake).
Sheva worked out great. Rebrov was a complete bust. So you've just made part of my point. It's always a gamble. It would be a gamble no matter who was bought. But Milan has to buy somebody, so why not give the guy a chance before you start proclaiming failure?
Also, Oliveira has had 2 1/2 good seasons in Europe, not one.
Firstly, i believe that Rebrov's downfall was solely due to the fact that he chose to go to the wrong club, a.k.a Spurs! He just fell into a fall so far deem he couldn't pull himself out. Poor guy.
Secondly, when a club like Milan so easily sells a player like Shevchenko within days (even without asking for a King's ransom and including Crespo & Gallas), we would like to think that the management has already lined up a replacement.
It's also a reputation thing, and as everyone witness, we became like a shopping mall with other clubs targeting Kaka, Nesta, etc. because it seems like the great Milan was crumbling.
On the other side of the coin, we couldn't sign anyone and seem to fail at every bid. It doesn't matter if it's really true, but the Media is having a field day with all the signings that we missed out. Hell, even a sure fire signing like Buffon didn't go through.
Just like when a company loses it's top notch Senior Executives, it always replaces it with another, in fear that uncertainty might cause share prices to drop.
TO sign off, it's true that Oliveira might be a good player and had 2 good years in Europe, but this signing doesn't come close to 'covering' Sheva's sale.
I do hope that you're right and i'm proven wrong in this...
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 12:26
Oliveira is a good player but nothing to get too excited about this move. I mean, when you talk fantasy signings, no one said "Please, bring Ricardo Oliveira, he is so good and had two good seasons in Europe". Obviously once Milan is closing in on the signing, all of the sudden he is very good and better than other top strikers. It always happens.
Gilardino/Inzaghi/Oliveira/Amoroso sounds weak, at least for Milan.
Hasan Rossonero
25-08-2006, 12:40
Oliveira is in Milan to sign with us...it is nearly officia...
Gazzetta:
http://www.gazzetta.it/ultimora/agrnews.jsp?id=**8630E00F-F4CF-46A5-8B8C-7552F6E5AEE1}&cat=home&sezione=CALCIO
I'm a hardcore Milan fan, but I have to admit that our transfer activity this summer has been very very poor. We are lacking at least ONE big-name forward, another ONE promising and young forward (to backup Pippo, Gila and Mr. Bigname) and a better keeper than Dida.
If we can get Buffon, or the Dida in the 2004/2005 Season mode; and a big name striker - we can win CL and Serie A.
The only good signing we made this summer is the french talent Yoann Gourcuff. I think he could be the next Kaka if given the chance.
Why is Galliani and Berlusconi acting so passive this year???
kastriot
25-08-2006, 12:47
Weel guess wverything is official by now, I just read it in goal .com.In ther transfer zone
Player From To Status
R. Oliveira Betis Milan Confirmed
I Think this can be a great signing, really a good one if and only if we get a new star striker:Tevez,Torres, Adriano
But anyway thats a godd deal. :5ok: :5ok: :5ok: Bravo for the managament
So what you're saying, then, is that you believe other clubs are better at judging talent than Milan and you always expect Milan to be behind the curve and come in after players only after they have "proven" themselves through newspaper links to other clubs?
Is that what i actually said Rick? I don't think it is so you should stop making assumptions. You seem to think that this guy is the greatest striker in the world and much better than other players, yet if he was as great as you make out my point still stands that alot of other clubs would have enquired about him to see if he was available, to see if they could buy him, etc. All you've listed is Fenerbace. Zlatanov was quick to dismiss Sobis because he was linked with Racing Santander, so what does that say about Oliveira when he's been linked with Fenerbace ?
Alot of clubs have signed/brought in strikers/forwards this summer, Inter, Roma, Barca, Madrid, Atletico, Valencia, Liverpool, Celtic, Chelsea, Newcastle, Marseille, Bayern .... not to mention clubs like Lyon & Ajax who have been looking at some forwards. Yet (and i appreciate i've not read everything on transfer related to these clubs) i can't remember any of them mentioning Oliviera. Now don't you think that's a little odd if he's as great as you're making him out ?
Not that i should have to clarify this again, but i feel i have to to get through to some people. I'm not against him coming here or against the player, i just don't think he's as good as some members are making him out to be. If he was he'd have been snapped up a long time ago !
Warro Bantan
25-08-2006, 12:56
Fact is, we wont know how good he really is, until we see him in the Serie A.
My 2 cents:
1. We have now aquired, or are in the process of obtaining, a talented forward...how talented? (See the intro statement above)
2. We got him relatively inexpensively.
2 statements, 2 cents.
"Walk in the sunshine folks...winter is approaching"
rahul.acm
25-08-2006, 12:56
Its a done deal. Link http://www.goal.com/en-US/transfertzone.aspx :o
Oliveira IS a good player, but not a player that can win a game by himself. And that is what pippo, kaka, pirlo, sheva can do.... you need those kind of players to be unstopable. I wish him luck, but this wasnt a good job. this is not what we needed. This is only good IF we make our CM stronger with some extra class player, but not like this.
It's not a done deal, he still has to pass the medical.
You seem to think that this guy is the greatest striker in the world
And how did you arrive at that conclusion based on what I said? What I actually said was that he is a very good striker and I listed his accomplishments. If his accomplishments make him sound like the best striker in the world, then that's your conclusion, not mine.
But Oliveira is capable of making a significant contribution to the team and helping to offset the loss of Shevchenko. Nobody is going to replace Shevchenko. That would be the case were we to sign Tevez or anyone else who people have been wanking over this summer, including Eto'o and probably even Henry. And no matter who Milan were to buy, we would have no guarantees that they would work out. But Milan is buying a proven and capable striker at a very good price and that leaves a lot of funds available to strengthen other areas of the squad. And, after all, it is all about the team, not about one individual, is it not?
Dosn't seem to me like a bad move .. i have seen him playing he got some skills and had very good seasons while he WAS(if the transfer thing is true) playing in LaLiga .. so i can't say this is a bad move ..
I have to say that i would be happier if we could transfer Torres or Tevez but maybe our menagement is waiting until January to surprise us !
I'm rather underwhelmed admittedly, but if it goes thru I'll welcome him & hope for the best. On matters like these, I don't mind at all being shown I was wrong. I was under the impression he had injury concerns, no?
rahul.acm
25-08-2006, 13:16
....... maybe our menagement is waiting until January to surprise us !
I feel the same too. Considering the tough teams we have in group stages ( :grinser: ) we should be content with this fellow and stump everyone during Cristmas.
Or who knows he might turn into some one great that we won't need anyone else at all.
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
....and who fails medical tests really? Only Galliani can fail it. :neww:
kastriot
25-08-2006, 13:17
This is some stats for Oliveira
2003/04 Valencia app 19 (9) goals 9
2004/05 real Betis app 36 goals 22
2005/6 Real Betis app 14 goals 9
I couldnt find stats for him for the time he played in Sou Poulo, but I bet he was good there too,taking in concideration that Sao played in the final of CL.
One thing that I dont like about him is that in his stats I saw that in all his career in europe he didn have not a single assist. Wich makes me worried couse we need that from him here in milan.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=36652&cc=5739
hitmannq8
25-08-2006, 13:18
sigh.. from names like Tevez, Torres, Adriano, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, we sign Oliveira.. This is surprise #1 from the board, maybe they like it but I know most of the fans dont. Let's wait for surprise #2.
hitmannq8
25-08-2006, 13:20
Guys, its 99% official. He already commented from Milan about it.
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/aug25p.html
Milan pick Ruben Oliveira
Having abandoned their bid for Ronaldo, Milan are hours away from signing ex-Betis Seville forward Ricardo Oliveira, confirmed the player.
“I am happy to have been signed by such an important club as Milan,” commented the 26-year-old Brazilian as the private jet touched down this evening.
He was accompanied by Rossoneri transfer gurus Ariedo Braida and Adriano Galliani, who were in Spain this week to discuss Ronaldo’s move from Real Madrid, but turned their attention to another Liga-based Selecao star instead.
It’s reported Oliveira will put pen to paper on a four-year contract worth £1m per season after sealing a £10m switch from Real Betis Seville.
The transfer depends on the results of a medical, though, as Oliveira was the Spanish League’s top scorer in 2004-05 with 22 goals before snapping a cruciate knee ligament in November last year.
He was loaned to Sao Paulo in his homeland to help recover from the injury and helped them reach the Final of the Copa Libertadores.
kastriot
25-08-2006, 13:22
And how did you arrive at that conclusion based on what I said? What I actually said was that he is a very good striker and I listed his accomplishments. If his accomplishments make him sound like the best striker in the world, then that's your conclusion, not mine.
But Oliveira is capable of making a significant contribution to the team and helping to offset the loss of Shevchenko. Nobody is going to replace Shevchenko. That would be the case were we to sign Tevez or anyone else who people have been wanking over this summer, including Eto'o and probably even Henry. And no matter who Milan were to buy, we would have no guarantees that they would work out. But Milan is buying a proven and capable striker at a very good price and that leaves a lot of funds available to strengthen other areas of the squad. And, after all, it is all about the team, not about one individual, is it not?
Very nicely said, I agree
He can really make an impact in milan, he is fast ,explosive, good dribler. tall so I`m guessing his good in the air. Those quality is what we need in a striker playing alongside Pippo or Gila. But time will show.. hope for the best
i just don't think he's as good as some members are making him out to be. If he was he'd have been snapped up a long time ago !
You may be and may be not right Jim.
There are many examples when top Brazilian players used to spend 2 or 3 years in smaller european clubs before they were snapped up by a giant club.
Rivaldo spent 2 years in Deportivo before he was bought by Barcelona, when he was 25.
Ronaldinho spent 2 years in PSG before he was bought by Barcelona at 24
Same thing may happen with Oliveira, who is 26 and spent 3 years in Valencia and Betis before he was bought by another great club, Milan.
Rivaldo and Ronaldinho turned out to be great success when they started playing for a big club, what makes you think Oliveira won't have a similar destiny ?
my only hope is that now Milan will ruthessly fill his pockets with 25mil euro and send him in a plaine to Vicente Calderon stadium for exchange, and then get Torres in here :) or maybe oliveira+money for eto'o - even better.
I am in the work guys, i just was informed that finally Ricardo Oliveira signed and he did his first comment in the media as a Milan player. There are not the exact comments but:"I am very glad that i will continue my carreer in a illustrious club like Milan".
I still don't see how you can say he's proven. Capable yes, proven no. He had one good season in Spain, some nice performances for Valencia, played in the Uefa cup and 5 CL games .... and he's proven ? Sorry, i don't buy that. Javi Moreno was the same, top scorer in Spain, played well for Alaves, played in the Uefa cup and got to the final and was a capable scorer. We bought him and look how that turned out.
I arrived at my conclusion because you keep saying he's had 2.5 good years in europe, scored one long range goal against Barca, carried Betis by himself, was instrumental in Valencia's league win, played in the uefa cup, scored goals in Brazil, scored a few goals for his country, he's out performed Torres in two seasons so he must be better than the Spaniard and a hotter property. We might aswell sell our other two strikers and just play him up front by himself with the way you've championed his corner.
I'm well aware that no one can/will replace Shevchenko.
kastriot
25-08-2006, 13:27
Guys dont you find intersting that all the singings this year were very fast and coming out of blue, Favalli, Bonera,Oliveira.They were signed without any fus or previous annoucment. Everything happened in time period of one day. The only one that we talked a little bit before coming in Milan was Gorcuff.
This is impossible, FFS i'm not saying he won't be a good player for us ! All i'm saying is that he's not the super star forward people are making him out to be !!!!!!!!!!!!1
it is true that many great brazilian players fail to picked up on the radar because they mature at an normal, or maybe even slightly slower rate. with the plethora of talent that country throws up there is always 7 or 8 young players threatening to do amazing things, why get worked up about a very good player who is a few years older? I mean, how many of us were aware of Juninho of Lyon until he was in his late 20s?
still, that said.
inzaghi/gila/sheva/vieri - was a positively terrifying attack (until we found out vieri was crap)
gila/inzaghi/oliveira/amoroso - is not even close to being as good as the other big teams of europe. Inter, madrid, barca, chelsea all have vastly superior options upfront, man u, arsenal, roma, bayern even come above ours I reckon.
hitmannq8
25-08-2006, 13:37
This is impossible, FFS i'm not saying he won't be a good player for us ! All i'm saying is that he's not the super star forward people are making him out to be !!!!!!!!!!!!1
I agree with you, lets just wait a week more till the transfer window is over. Im really extremely annoyed with this transfer. If on the other hand it was a transfer to replace Amoroso, im satisfied, if he is sort of bait to get Ronaldo/Torres im satisfied, but if he is here to be part of our 4-man attack of Gila, Pippo, and Amoroso, I am no where near happy and extremely disappointed. Ofcourse I'll never stop supporting Milan, but this transfer isnt exactly ideal.
The transfer window is 3 months long. Now there is only 6 days left, and so far our transfer movement hasnt so been good, and we are not competing with other european teams in the market. For fk sake, Hamburg has bought players like Van Der Vaart, Kompany. Valencia has bought Tavano, Joaquin. We know who Real,Barca,Inter,Chelsea got. Its only Milan that has got players like Bonera,Favalli,Gourcuff,Oliveira. I hope this isnt the way the transfer window will end, I will be extermely disappointed.
Good transfer from what i have seen of him in Valencia and Betis he´s what we need for playing good football, OK not great football but Sheva never delivered great football either, effective yes, beautiful no, and this serie a proven striker got to stop I have no doubt that a team like Betis would rape probably all serie a teams except the three big ones (Milan, Inter, Juve, OK maybe not Roma) it´s not 1990 anymore.
p.s. the reason I put Sheva´s name there is because he´s the one who's going to be replaced.
now, if we can sign Oddo and some great AM, that would make a difference. but with just favalli, gourcuff, bonera and oliveira, we are :( and we payed 15mil for him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it doesnt look like he will be our 4th striker.
rahul.acm
25-08-2006, 13:41
The only way Inter fans can laugh at us is by comparing the signings of the two.
Graeme C
25-08-2006, 13:51
sheva went for £30 mill, would be mad if Milan only used Sheva money for transfers... Oliveira? still hoping for tevez or Torres...But glad we didnt get Ronaldo!
Hasan Rossonero
25-08-2006, 13:52
Again my only gripe is that he suffered a knee injury in November and only just made his return August 10.
The only way Inter fans can laugh at us is by comparing the signings of the two.
If they do so, then tell them to compare the other players we and they have.
Ask them if they have 5 world champions, about 10 CL winners and 3 ex world champions in their team. :5ok:
This is impossible, FFS i'm not saying he won't be a good player for us ! All i'm saying is that he's not the super star forward people are making him out to be !!!!!!!!!!!!1
Who said he was a super star? That's the first I've heard of it in this thread. :w200:
One thing that I dont like about him is that in his stats I saw that in all his career in europe he didn have not a single assist. Wich makes me worried couse we need that from him here in milan.[/url]
this statistics on ESPNsoccernet are not including assists, except the champions league games.
Again my only gripe is that he suffered a knee injury in November and only just made his return August 10.
he made 12 appearances for sao paulo and scored 6 goals (5 in brazilian league, 1 in libertadores).
well better than nothing.... forza milan
El CAUCA
25-08-2006, 15:01
what i think is that milan shoul borrow david suazo from calglary for at least 1 seson to see what this guy realy has in a big team like milan
El CAUCA
25-08-2006, 15:02
what do ya think
Have you considered that Cagliari might not want to let him go? And usually big teams loan out players to smaller teams, not the other way around. I do love the guy though. I just don't see him coming to Milan.
El CAUCA
25-08-2006, 15:08
i woud love to see suazo playing in milan he is from were i em and i think he might do good playing at milan
El CAUCA
25-08-2006, 15:09
but my ? is is milan interested in suazo
El CAUCA
25-08-2006, 15:13
thats mest up men
In a first time I was sad to read that milan stop negociations to sign Ronaldo. I think he's the best striker of the World with Sheva (ok he must loose fat). I m also sad that Zambrotta is going to Barca. But I stay optimistic for Oliveira. Ok he's not a great name like Torres, Tevez , Ronaldo etc but I'm confident in Ancelloti and Berlusconi. If they buy his he must be good, very good. More his salary must be downer that Ronaldo salary. We have goods strikers in the team and I think that Milan have good comportement to not sign at any price Torres, Tevez, Ronaldihno. Now I hope that this buy is one beetween 2 good defensers (Chivu, Gallas, Mexes). I think in middle we are OK. I hope Buffon but perhaps next year when Juve go back to serie A...Amelia could be a very good second gk. Dont forget Dida performance when we win he last CL...Last, why dont we buy the best striker of Holland? And perhaps that the Oliveira buy will be downer the prices of Ronaldo. Im sure he wants quit Madrid and comes to Milan. Just see Diarra, Lyon have been obliged to sell his to real at a good price... I hope...
El CAUCA
25-08-2006, 15:27
i guess but i heard roomers that milan whants ronaldinho is that true
So Oliveira to replace Sheva???
Come on...!! Braida what did you eat in Spain...?
Sheva...Sheva... I think we have the best team in the world and the strikers must give the trophys. What are their since two years? No one. His head was in England. This guy let us for money and just for money. I can't accept that. More do you think that you are a better judge that Carlo and Sylvio? :swars:
Brazilian and Spanish media are already reporting Milan aquired Ricardo Oliveira for a fee between 15 and 18 millions euros. www.marca.com
He only has to pass the medical to be presented.
This a pretty exciting news, as said, I saw this guy playing many times (I used to live in Santos) and this guy has potential to make impact in Serie A.
Have you considered that Cagliari might not want to let him go? And usually big teams loan out players to smaller teams, not the other way around. I do love the guy though. I just don't see him coming to Milan.
You're right, Cagliari does not want to let Suazo go. They did everything they could to keep him there. And I don't blame them. I just love the guy. I watch him all the time because Fox Soccer Channel shows Cagliari home games on Sunday mornings. He reminds me so much of George Weah. And, barring a move to Milan, I hope he remains at Cagliari. It would take a lot to get him to leave there too, I think. Not only has he been there for seven years, but last year he married a Sardinian girl. So Cagliari is his home now. Cagliari has sort of become my "second team" in Italy from watching him play for them so much!
Well I'm very happy about the developments with Oliveira. Assuming he passes his physical, I think he will bring a lot to the team and I think Milan fans will enjoy seeing him (even those who aren't so thrilled with him at the moment). And Milan acquired him at a good price which leaves funds to buy more players to bolster the squad. The thing everybody needs to remember is that just because you're not seeing names plastered all over the newspapers does not mean Milan is not working to bring in more players before the transfer deadline ends. There is still plenty of time. Look how quickly this one happened without a whisper until it was practically done!
i think we got ripped-off for £10 mil we could have had tevez for £20-25mil and hes much better and 4 years younger how can he be considered a replacement for sheva he cant what a disgrace :mad:
breitlingmoto
25-08-2006, 16:00
Hi, I am a new member here, I have been reading the forums for a long itme, but have never written in. I would just like to ask all the members here when the last time a spanish player came and did well, not a player from the liga necessarily, but a spanish player, Jose-Marie, Javi Moreno are two from recent memory!
My point is Torres, is it not risky to spend atleast $32-40 million on him? I have only seen bits and bobs of Olivera and he seems fine. Don't forget Milan have always helped develop players. Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka, Gattuso, Sheva, hell even Pippo is a much better player today then when he joined us.
Infact I was thinking that we maybe should have gone for Martins, I reckon we have what it takes to mould him into potentially the most lethal finisher in the world, he is certainly quicker than everyone else, imo!
Anyway, that's all!
I think he's a good signing for Milan. I remember being impressed with him while he was at Valencia - particularly his two hat tricks and goals against Real and Barca - and I was very shocked that they let him go. At Betis he was fantastic and proved he could score consistently over a season. With his pace and skill I think he'll be a good option to go along with the other strikers at the club.
Also, I think people get a little carried away with big name players. For example, Torres is a good young player but he still has a lot to learn. He needs to become more consistent in his finishing and he needs to greatly improve his possession retention - he gave the ball away more than any other player in La Liga last season. At about e45m he would be a gamble and Oliveira at about one third of the price is a good buy - and Oliveira has scored more in one season than Torres has managed so far.
I think he's a good signing for Milan. I remember being impressed with him while he was at Valencia - particularly his two hat tricks and goals against Real and Barca - and I was very shocked that they let him go. At Betis he was fantastic and proved he could score consistently over a season. With his pace and skill I think he'll be a good option to go along with the other strikers at the club.
Also, I think people get a little carried away with big name players. For example, Torres is a good young player but he still has a lot to learn. He needs to become more consistent in his finishing and he needs to greatly improve his possession retention - he gave the ball away more than any other player in La Liga last season. At about e45m he would be a gamble and Oliveira at about one third of the price is a good buy - and Oliveira has scored more in one season than Torres has managed so far.
Great post RMK! I've often thought to myself that it seems opinions are too often swayed by newspaper hype, even if people don't realize it. People tend to believe what they read -- both good and bad -- no matter how nonsensical it is. And by the same token, if a player isn't getting the hype that some others get, they figure that player can't be very good. :beer:
Hasan Rossonero
25-08-2006, 16:21
he made 12 appearances for sao paulo and scored 6 goals (5 in brazilian league, 1 in libertadores).
well then maybe my fears can be allayed.
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 16:34
here is a link to a thread on an Inter forum, where the Oliveira to Milan transfer is being discussed. Maybe the comments comming from HARDCORE Inter fans, who - pay attention: actually know him as a player !!!!! - will raise some people's self-esteem as Milan fans after Milan signed a no-name player like him, who didn't cost us 30-40 mil.
You might have to register to read it though, not sure:
http://www.forza-inter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467&page=46&highlight=oliveira
there are some Milan fans there too :)
i think olivera for the price is a good signing considering the lack of options on the market.
hes young, he`ll have ambiton etc.... and by his past stats he seems like he could surprise a few people in serie a. the only question mark hanging over him is whether or not he carries on in the same free scoring vain before injury.
he has potential lets just hope that he blossoms at milan
here is a link to a thread on an Inter forum, where the Oliveira to Milan transfer is being discussed. Maybe the comments comming from HARDCORE Inter fans, who - pay attention: actually know him as a player !!!!! - will raise some people's self-esteem as Milan fans after Milan signed a no-name player like him, who didn't cost us 30-40 mil.
You might have to register to read it though, not sure:
http://www.forza-inter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467&page=46&highlight=oliveira
there are some Milan fans there too :)
Good stuff zlatanov! :5guitar:
Funny, I was checking out another Milan forum earlier today and there was not near the negativity or skepticism toward Oliveira that I'm finding in this thread. There was one guy who was whining and bitching, but everybody else seemed happy about it. (Well, there was one 15-year-old girl who, it seemed, had never seen him play but didn't think from his photo that he was very good looking and wished Milan would sign a more handsome player!) I don't know why this forum seems to be so full of worrywarts and naysayers. :swars:
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 17:05
which forum is that ... after 5 min in this thread I am usually in dire need to read something positive ;)
Hasan Rossonero
25-08-2006, 17:09
I watched him intently during the 2004-05 season. Brilliant player with great movement and he is good in the air too.
I think this is a great deal for us. If he can stay injury free I can see him notch 20 goals for us domestically and a few more in the CL.
List of former Sao Paulo players currently in Milan:
-Leonardo (now working in management, of course)
-Cafu'
-Kaka'
-Serginho
-Amoroso
-Ricardo Oliveira
and BTW, it is just a coincidence that he plays with number 12, currently in posession of Marco Borriello, the player he is supposed to sub...
but would it be a coincidence that the 2 lines across Sao Paulo's chest (in their traditional jersey) are Red and Black???
zlatanov
25-08-2006, 17:14
but would it be a coincidence that the 2 lines across Sao Paulo's chest (in their traditional jersey) are Red and Black???
well, given the fact that we could field almost an entire team of former SP players, I am guessing it's not :devs:
GRE-NO-LI
25-08-2006, 17:22
Not exactly a dream signing, of course, but considering that we were on the verge of a nightmare transfer, one must really feel relieved.
Well... of course it will not hurt if we still grab someone like Torres, not at all, but I guess that won't happen... so let's hope we'll still get a RB, a CB and a MF.
Dr Milano
25-08-2006, 17:24
Not exactly a dream signing, of course, but considering that we were on the verge of a nightmare transfer, one must really feel relieved.
Well... of course it will not hurt if we still grab someone like Torres, not at all, but I guess that won't happen... so let's hope we'll still get a RB, a CB and a MF.
yeah but i think hes still good though .... he scored against chelsea too in europe so im not bothered im happy with this signing :sagrin:
just know we need
Oddo - Right Back
Gallas - Center Back - Pinch Him
Midfielder - Hmmmm Keep Vogel he isnt bad
GRE-NO-LI
25-08-2006, 17:28
Oddo and Gallas can be very worthy reinforcements, sure, but all the 'come and go' around their transfres have turned into a real saga hehehe.
Dr Milano
25-08-2006, 17:30
Oddo and Gallas can be very worthy reinforcements, sure, but all the 'come and go' around their transfres have turned into a real saga hehehe.
:sagrin: we only need them 2 i mean oddo is really needed we still have bonera and co ... so gallas is uum
GRE-NO-LI
25-08-2006, 17:32
Hmm.... perhaps we should try Miguel, or Alves... are they cup tied already?
Billy1969
25-08-2006, 18:07
Oliveira played all the Brasil WC qualifiers before his injury alongside Ronaldo or Adriano, don't underestimate him, he's good. I'm happy he comes to Milan. Besides the peeps comparing Milan to Barcelona and their "godlike team" did watch the European Supercup today right?
No? They got pwnd by Sevilla 0-3 and it could have been more, so much for Barcelona. I don't see them qualify vs. Bremen and Chelsea even :D
GRE-NO-LI
25-08-2006, 18:11
Hmmm... Barça may not have a 'godlike' team, but I'm certain they will qualify against Chelsea and WB, and today they have a better squad than us.
kastriot
25-08-2006, 18:22
Hmm.... perhaps we should try Miguel, or Alves... are they cup tied already?
Did somebody see Alves playing tonight, he was great, he was named MOM, we need to get that guy.. please Galiani sign this gay :5schal: :5schal: :5schal: :5schal:
GRE-NO-LI
25-08-2006, 18:24
He's really a very powerful RB and, of course, infinitelly better than today's Cafu.
I thought some of you might enjoy this chat that Oliveira did for UEFA.com last September. I think it gives you a good feel for him as a person.
*****
Chat with Betis star Oliveira
The MasterCard TalkFootball Chat section is back for the 2005/06 campaign. Read the transcript of the Ricardo Oliveira chat which took place on Thursday 15 September below.
Moderator: Welcome to today's chat with Real Betis Balompié striker Ricardo Oliveira. Ever wondered what goes on in the head of a Brazilian international? Well here's your chance! We've got Ricardo Oliveira in our chatroom, one of the most lethal strikers in European club football. When he's not firing in the goals for Real Betis Balompié he can be found starring in the yellow and blue of Brazil. So far Oliveira has been a real success at international level, scoring on his debut against Catalunya's regional team in a friendly at FC Barcelona's Camp Nou on 25 April 2004 and playing a part in the FIFA Confederations Cup 2005 campaign which saw Brazil lift the trophy. So, send in your questions (in English) now!
Eagle-NL: How did you become a professional football player?
Ricardo Oliveira: I was very persistent. When I was a boy I really wanted to be a player, but I never went to clubs to find out what I had to do. A friend took me to Rio de Janeiro, to play at a club called Campo Grande, I was 17. I stayed there for one week and got desperate. It was too hard, I cried the whole week and came back.
simao0209: After loosing to Liverpool, can Betis still qualify for the next stage?
Ricardo Oliveira: Yes, I think so. We showed we can play against anyone. They scored twice in 15 minutes and decided the game, then we had the control of the game and couldn't score. We still have a chance, we have to win both matches at home and then try to add something away.
erdinnizam: hi oliviera , you absolutely have the talent and are succeeding lots of great things , so what's your plan for the near future, are you planning to join a more famous team and is there a team that you're dreaming to wear its shirt?
Ricardo Oliveira: We can't make this kind of plans for the future. We need to be ready, but you can't play thinking about the next step. Of course we are always looking for the big things in football. Playing in Europe is already a dream and I am really happy playing for Betis. I am glad I made history in all the clubs I played for... Portuguesa, Santos, Valencia and now Betis. Tomorrow.... you never know.
Radas: How can you describe your group rivals - Chelsea?
Ricardo Oliveira: It is a very difficult team to beat. They won the first match, it is essential to qualify. Tactically they are almost perfect; they won all the matches this year without conceding a single goal!
Ldominance: Which was the greatest goal you scored?
Ricardo Oliveira: One goal I will never forget was against Monaco, when we qualified for the Champions League group stage. It was a difficult situation, they had just scored and were leading 2-1. So that goal was beautiful, because I took the ball in the midfield, passed by three defenders and scored. And also decisive, the goal that qualified us for the Champions League.
west ham: did you play Futsal when u were younger? Was it important to your development?
Ricardo Oliveira: Yes, I did play and it was very important for me. I was 10 years old or so... I had to do a real "trip" to go from my place to the futsal club. But then we had lunch there, we made some trips, it was really fun. Even when I started playing professionally, I never quit Futsal, I was played with my friends. It is fantastic for controlling, to make a quick move, I still feel how important it was for me.
arabicman: who is your favorite player in attack?
Ricardo Oliveira: Besides me? (laughing...) I always loved to see Romário playing. I have always tried to study his moves. And another one is Ronaldo, he is so calm when he needs to score. They are not the same players, obviously, but they are really decisive.
dst: Allow me to say you're a great striker but do you believe that your performance in the c.l. will earn you a place in the up coming world cup?
Ricardo Oliveira: It will be important. I can't say that one or two matches will guarantee my place in the Brazilian squad. It is a tough race and I think that the key is to be constant. My plan is to score at least 20 goals this season. I think if I am able to play well and always for Betis, I will be in the World Cup independently of the Champions League games.
migue er betico: Ricardo, i hope you are really happy living in Seville, but, what do you actually enjoy from our city?
Ricardo Oliveira: It is a small city, but full of places to go, to enjoy apart from football. People of Seville are so funny and happy… the weather is good as well. It is important to be happy where you work and Seville is giving me all that. It is the best place to live in Spain.
Did you know?: Oliveira joined his childhood team SC Corinthians when he was just 14.
Salsa girl: How do you relax in your spare time? What other sports do you play?
Ricardo Oliveira: I try to be with my family most of the time. I love to play my guitar and sing with my with and my son. And like to relax in the swimming pool as well, the weather in Seville helps a lot! Besides football, I don’t play anything else. I can only play football!! That is what I like.
Did you know?: Oliveira scored on his debut for Brazil against Catalunya's regional team in a friendly at FC Barcelona's Camp Nou on 25 April 2004. The striker added another two goals to his international tally against Hong Kong in February 2005 and played a part in the FIFA Confederations Cup 2005 campaign which saw Brazil lift the trophy.
manu_betis: What team do you think will win the CL?
Ricardo Oliveira: If Betis are champions everyone would be surprised, except my teammates and I. I hope Betis win it! Football today is too levelled and I think Betis can win. The playoffs format shows that everything is possible. Liverpool are a great example for everyone. They were not favorites, were 3-0 down in the final and won it. The favorites are Chelsea, Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus… they are too many. But Liverpool showed us that everything can happen.
forza juve: who is your best friend in football?
Ricardo Oliveira: I would be ungrateful with lots of people. People say it is difficult to make real friends in football. I think it is absolutely the opposite. I have lots of friends, but I won’t say one or two. It would be unfair with so many others. Of course I see often Edu and Marcos Assunção, because they play with me in Betis.
dst: who will be Brazil's toughest team to face in this summer's wc?
Ricardo Oliveira: Argentina, as always. They are the only ones who play equally against Brazil. They attack as well, they do not only defend. It is always tough to play them.
Alexio: What do you like more: futsal, beach football or football on grass?
Ricardo Oliveira: Interesting question, I loved to play beach soccer when I had the opportunity. But obviously the one I like most is on the grass. It is my job and I love it.
Did you know?: In 2003, Valencia CF brought Oliveira to Spain and he played a part in the team's Primera División and UEFA Cup double triumph under Rafael Benítez. His first goal in the Spanish top flight came on 27 September 2003 against Real Madrid CF. Real Betis Balompié requested him on loan and then signed him outright for €4m on a five-year contract.
Radas: Despite selling Julio Baptista to Real, your local rivals Sevilla FC bought same high-quality players and seem also to have a very strong team this season. Do you agree with that?
Ricardo Oliveira: Yes, I agree. At least in theory they are stronger than last season. However, they have changed the coach, it is a new season for them. It is a mystery. They have a good team, but let’s see if they will get the results.
Juventina: If you were not a footballer what profession do you think you would be in?
Ricardo Oliveira: I don't know. Everyone says the same, don't they? (Laughing). I couldn't complete my studies and I gave up everything to become a player. Thank God it worked.
noura: Hi , I'm a girl and I support the betis sevilla, we know that there are more and more girls who like football, what do you think about that?
Ricardo Oliveira: Even in our training ground it is easy to notice it! The girls are coming and that is good for the sport. This week there was a girl who started crying because she wanted a photo. I left my car and did it! Of course. Only football has this effect, the passion for this sport in incredible.
Radas: What advice would you give to all the young boys who would like to become good football players?
Ricardo Oliveira: There is one thing I have in my heart and I’d like to say: a man is a true man if can live and die for his ideas. Who has no objective, a goal, a reason to live, something to do…. this person will be just walking around this world, without being noticed. I had a dream and I made it. That is what I say to everyone: try. You have to try, at least. If you want to be a football player, go for it.
Ricardo Oliveira: It was a nice pleasure to be here with you from all around the world. I am proud and I hope you could learn a little bit more about my life. Saludos a todos!!!
Moderator: Ricardo has now left the building but he was overcome by the flood of superb questions. Another day, another good chat thanks to both Ricardo and to the great effort made by you guys and girls out there. Have a good evening and make sure you join us for the chat on Matchday 2. Thanks again and see you next time!
Brasileiro
25-08-2006, 18:33
Hmm.... perhaps we should try Miguel, or Alves... are they cup tied already?
Miguel is very good, and I will be happy w/ him at Milan...but Alves is the best!!! Besides, we need more "angry" players like him, today Alves give a hard time to Ronaldinho and S.E...Imagine a right side w/ Alves and Gattuso...scary!!! :dstup:
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 18:47
I think its not Oliveira's fault that Milan most probably wont add another striker. He (R.O) is a nice option to have and is indeed talented but we are thin upfront.
I think we could have done much much worse than Oliveira. So this was more than a solid move by Milan.
CAB-MILAN83
25-08-2006, 18:48
Miguel is very good, and I will be happy w/ him at Milan...but Alves is the best!!! Besides, we need more "angry" players like him, today Alves give a hard time to Ronaldinho and S.E...Imagine a right side w/ Alves and Gattuso...scary!!! :dstup:
ok, we signed olivera,it will may be a good affaire,but what's after olivera????? nothink??????? :mute: i'm so sad :neww:
Why are you guys so certain that Milan will buy nobody else? Or even that Milan won't buy another striker? Twenty-four hours ago you hadn't heard Milan linked with Oliveira, but it happened quickly. There are still six days left in the transfer period, so let's wait and see what happens before we pull down the curtain.
GilAttack [11]
25-08-2006, 18:56
Why are you guys so certain that Milan will buy nobody else? Or even that Milan won't buy another striker? Twenty-four hours ago you hadn't heard Milan linked with Oliveira, but it happened quickly. There are still six days left in the transfer period, so let's wait and see what happens before we pull down the curtain.
I guess this was directed to me. I said that Milan will make more moves IMO but wont add another striker. Everyone knew that we were going to buy one striker, just not the name. Now my belief is that we will reinforce other positions. But that is my guess. Hopefully Im wrong and Berlu delivers.
']I guess this was directed to me. I said that Milan will make more moves IMO but wont add another striker. Everyone knew that we were going to buy one striker, just not the name. Now my belief is that we will reinforce other positions. But that is my guess. Hopefully Im wrong and Berlu delivers.
Well, both of you actually. Maybe Milan won't buy another striker. I think the guys on the roster now can handle the load just fine, but I also wouldn't rule it out. We just don't know what is going on behind the scenes, so anything can happen. :5ok:
Well...Hello everybody :)
I see we won't buy Ronaldo. That's a shame, I think he and Kaka are awesome together and I think this Oliveira offer is comming out of despair. Im not gonna ask what happened to Tevez hopes :) Anyhow,
-----------------Gila/Pippo
-------------Kaka
Seedorf
-------------------------Gourcuff
----------------Gattuso
--------Pirlo
---------------------------Bonera/Cafu
-Serginho----------Nesta
----------Kaladze
------------Dida--------------
Is not that bad, seriously !! And even more so because we have Foggia and Boriello who can play in Seedorfs place like a striker which i think is GREAT for us.
ehm.....Apocalipse now...... :ende: :)
Well, I do not know Oliveira at all, so I cannot really comment on his (possible) transfer. But I would have to agree with Tas, that Ronaldo could be great with Kaka at Milan. Like him or not, his statistics says it all - he makes a lot of goals where ever he plays..
But something tells me, this is not over yet. I think we will still bring in another striker and a new defender also.
zZ[-_-]Zz
25-08-2006, 20:45
wow... at least the management hasn't gone bonkers for Ronaldo... Oliveira might not carry the same degree of exposure & hype... but one thing is for sure... gettin' him is definitely a step-up compared to Ronaldo... finally i can breathe some relief... no Ronaldo... & a decent striker close to bein' wrapped up...
Sigh....
Many say that we saved money which will allow us to buy more players.
Firstly, Milan always said they were not a 'selling' club, so the 30mil by Sheva sale shouldn't be there in the first place because i'm sure they didn't plan for it.
So, what are we saving for?
Secondly, we have a god damn 40 year old defence line, shouldn't we have signed some defenders by now, irregardless of our CL qualification.
What if Milan don't sign anyone else?
GRE-NO-LI
25-08-2006, 21:24
Everything I want on that case is to be wrong, I'll be really very glad if the board manage to surprise me.
I watched Oliveira sometime, because I wanted to watch Joaquin:D. I'm really suprise that Milan wants to him though he is quite good. Some friends told me this's official and the fee is P15M <heart attack>. So anyone please tell me exactly what is going on.
Yup! That's somewhat true, maybe more like 12Million Euros.
I really don't know what to feel about this transfer....
I have no more feeling... Feel numb....
Tony Soprano
25-08-2006, 23:57
Well, I do not know Oliveira at all, so I cannot really comment on his (possible) transfer. But I would have to agree with Tas, that Ronaldo could be great with Kaka at Milan. Like him or not, his statistics says it all - he makes a lot of goals where ever he plays..
But something tells me, this is not over yet. I think we will still bring in another striker and a new defender also.
Good. I thought I was the only guy here who never heard of him :D
GavinMilan
25-08-2006, 23:57
this is exactly what I don't want Milan to do, getting a panic buy.
I doubt Oliveria is an upgrade from Pippo and Gila.
If this is indeed true, then Milan board have let me down again
Tony Soprano
26-08-2006, 00:25
I really think this entire transfer season has been a let down for Milan and the fans. We all expected to be busy like all the major European clubs are. I don't want us to buy for the sake of buying, but rather buy for the sake of improving. I don't think that our defense got old overnight. I don't think that Sheva left us a day ago. We just aren't doing anything about it and it's evidently clear. Our time is limited now. We must act now or lose any possibility of signing anybody for the new campaign.
Funny, I was checking out another Milan forum earlier today and there was not near the negativity or skepticism toward Oliveira that I'm finding in this thread. There was one guy who was whining and bitching, but everybody else seemed happy about it. I don't know why this forum seems to be so full of worrywarts and naysayers. :swars:
As a mod, I would say that it's our fault; simply because we sometimes let people go too far...
Buy olivera is a bad move...
He´s not a good player... He´s not a Milan Player... He´s a Betis Player...
This situation sucks...
Oliviera may be an average player who can play for teams like Valencia (even they got rid of him as soon as they signed him)............i dont understand why milan is spending 12 million on oliviera.....instead it would be good to spend 20 million or more on tevez...........and also a good centre back like chivu............
what happened milan..............................only gourcuff & bonera seems to be a positive signing......all the rest is negative
sheva left
rui costa left
abbiatti left
maldini is ageing
costacurta is ageing
seedorf is ageing
cafu is ageing
we badly need replacements
I really think this entire transfer season has been a let down for Milan and the fans. We all expected to be busy like all the major European clubs are. I don't want us to buy for the sake of buying, but rather buy for the sake of improving. I don't think that our defense got old overnight. I don't think that Sheva left us a day ago. We just aren't doing anything about it and it's evidently clear. Our time is limited now. We must act now or lose any possibility of signing anybody for the new campaign.
I don't think clubs will want to let go of anyone important without any chance of replacing them.
Time is running out...
GRE-NO-LI
26-08-2006, 01:58
To be honest, I'm trying to be happy with RO's signing, but if one thinks about what a side like ours really deserves... oh boy, I miss so much our glorious 88 - 94 era... :irritate:
I don't think clubs will want to let go of anyone important without any chance of replacing them.
Time is running out...
That's not fair.
We got rid of our players without replacing them. :mute:
Only one things matters to clubs when it comes to selling players. :greed:
if we get oliveira
i think
its better than nothing
fine, lets not spend any more money on forwards. Now we ned to get Oddo or maybe GIgi if we can, aldough Dida is brilliant goalkeper. Oddo is no.1 target now.
As a mod, I would say that it's our fault; simply because we sometimes let people go too far...
Ah, well, after I wrote that I checked that other place again last night and found that the Pessimist Patrol had come out in full force over there too. I guess they just have a later-arriving crowd. :de3:
I don't know what it is with Milan fans. The club is signing a very good striker; someone who (with the exception of name recognition) fits the profile of the type of player they have claimed all summer that Milan needs; someone who has won championships, both domestic and European, and who has a history of scoring goals in the "big games"; someone with pace, skill and finishing ability. Yet half of Milan fans bemoan the fact that they have never heard of him (as if they had heard of Kaka) or that he's not a "big name" (read: overhyped) and therefore can't replace Shevchenko (as if anyone could).
Many posters have been depressed that Inter "beat Milan" to Ibrahimovic (even though Milan didn't actually bid on him, despite the newspaper hype). Well if somebody had said to me the day after Sheva left: "Rick, you get to choose Milan's new striker, but you only have two choices. You can have either Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Ricardo Oliveira." I would not have hesitated to choose Oliveira over that overrated, overhyped primadonna. Oliveira is a better player right now than Fernando Torres, who half this board has been wanking over all summer. (That may change someday, but right now he is a better, more consistent and more polished player.)
I just don't know what people want. The Pessimist Patrol isn't going to be satisfied no matter who Milan signs. :musk:
devoted_dm
26-08-2006, 06:57
Ah, well, after I wrote that I checked that other place again last night and found that the Pessimist Patrol had come out in full force over there too. I guess they just have a later-arriving crowd. :de3:
I don't know what it is with Milan fans. The club is signing a very good striker; someone who (with the exception of name recognition) fits the profile of the type of player they have claimed all summer that Milan needs; someone who has won championships, both domestic and European, and who has a history of scoring goals in the "big games"; someone with pace, skill and finishing ability. Yet half of Milan fans bemoan the fact that they have never heard of him (as if they had heard of Kaka) or that he's not a "big name" (read: overhyped) and therefore can't replace Shevchenko (as if anyone could).
Many posters have been depressed that Inter "beat Milan" to Ibrahimovic (even though Milan didn't actually bid on him, despite the newspaper hype). Well if somebody had said to me the day after Sheva left: "Rick, you get to choose Milan's new striker, but you only have two choices. You can have either Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Ricardo Oliveira." I would not have hesitated to choose Oliveira over that overrated, overhyped primadonna. Oliveira is a better player right now than Fernando Torres, who half this board has been wanking over all summer. (That may change someday, but right now he is a better, more consistent and more polished player.)
I just don't know what people want. The Pessimist Patrol isn't going to be satisfied no matter who Milan signs. :musk:
Thank you for saying what I have been thinking about all of this. I don't see why we need a big name striker. The most important thing is that he scores goals, and this guy was the top scorer of the Spanish league in 2004-05, so we already know what he's capable of. In addition we have Pippo and Gila, so I don't think we have any reason to be worried about this purchase. I'd rather have Oliveira than Ronaldo, who's an over priced has-been.
I don't give a **** about glamour. Big names don't matter - but winning does. And if Oliveira wins something with Milan, he'll have a big name anyway.
Milan_Mad
26-08-2006, 07:05
This is impossible, FFS i'm not saying he won't be a good player for us ! All i'm saying is that he's not the super star forward people are making him out to be !!!!!!!!!!!!1Same with Tevez and Torres then, plus hes alot cheaper. Will be a great buy imho
kastriot
26-08-2006, 07:34
Ah, well, after I wrote that I checked that other place again last night and found that the Pessimist Patrol had come out in full force over there too. I guess they just have a later-arriving crowd. :de3:
I don't know what it is with Milan fans. The club is signing a very good striker; someone who (with the exception of name recognition) fits the profile of the type of player they have claimed all summer that Milan needs; someone who has won championships, both domestic and European, and who has a history of scoring goals in the "big games"; someone with pace, skill and finishing ability. Yet half of Milan fans bemoan the fact that they have never heard of him (as if they had heard of Kaka) or that he's not a "big name" (read: overhyped) and therefore can't replace Shevchenko (as if anyone could).
Many posters have been depressed that Inter "beat Milan" to Ibrahimovic (even though Milan didn't actually bid on him, despite the newspaper hype). Well if somebody had said to me the day after Sheva left: "Rick, you get to choose Milan's new striker, but you only have two choices. You can have either Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Ricardo Oliveira." I would not have hesitated to choose Oliveira over that overrated, overhyped primadonna. Oliveira is a better player right now than Fernando Torres, who half this board has been wanking over all summer. (That may change someday, but right now he is a better, more consistent and more polished player.)
I just don't know what people want. The Pessimist Patrol isn't going to be satisfied no matter who Milan signs. :musk:
:5ok: :5ok: :5ok:
kastriot
26-08-2006, 07:37
Ah, well, after I wrote that I checked that other place again last night and found that the Pessimist Patrol had come out in full force over there too. I guess they just have a later-arriving crowd. :de3:
I don't know what it is with Milan fans. The club is signing a very good striker; someone who (with the exception of name recognition) fits the profile of the type of player they have claimed all summer that Milan needs; someone who has won championships, both domestic and European, and who has a history of scoring goals in the "big games"; someone with pace, skill and finishing ability. Yet half of Milan fans bemoan the fact that they have never heard of
him (as if they had heard of Kaka) or that he's not a "big name" (read: overhyped) and therefore can't replace Shevchenko (as if anyone could).
Many posters have been depressed that Inter "beat Milan" to Ibrahimovic (even though Milan didn't actually bid on him, despite the newspaper hype). Well if somebody had said to me the day after Sheva left: "Rick, you get to choose Milan's new striker, but you only have two choices. You can have either Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Ricardo Oliveira." I would not have hesitated to choose Oliveira over that overrated, overhyped primadonna. Oliveira is a better player right now than Fernando Torres, who half this board has been wanking over all summer. (That may change someday, but right now he is a better, more consistent and more polished player.)
I just don't know what people want. The Pessimist Patrol isn't going to be satisfied no matter who Milan signs. :musk:
:5ok: :5ok: :5ok:
Thats what milan does,Takes talented players but proved ones and makes them super stars, if you see more detaly you`ll see that our whole team is made of players like that, Pirlo, Seedorf, Pippo, Kaka and some of the others, I would say the only one that was talented and proved in seria A and didnt deliver as much as we wanted to is Gila(my personal opinion is that he was just great so give him more time),
My point is that signing players like Ricardo O. shouldnt be surprise for us, thats what we are doing in the past couple of years or maybe more couse Shevchenko was like this skilfull, talented but not a star. he became a superstar after he joined us.The only star player that we signed in the past years was Nesta.
Its definatly better to buy oliveira than Obelix from Madrid, we'll see how he does. In the meantime, we need to wish him luck in Milan! The forward saga is now ower, lets do something else-defence!
I saw some of his goals on youtube and i think he's a solid player, only wish his knee wasn't cracked...They say he will undergo medical today, I hope they can evaluate the situation...like mrki said: we buy oddo to replace cafu at right full back and we can start the new, victorius season...
Billy1969
26-08-2006, 08:04
.... Obelix from Madrid, ....
Thank you very much for making me spill my coffee on my keyboard. :dielaugh:
aceventura
26-08-2006, 08:25
obelix From madris isnt that bad but the price was too much for us. Obelix at his age doent worth 30 milion anymore.
Oliveira is Inrestind signing but there is a very big question mark about his fitness.
if we get oliveira
i think
its better than nothing
exactly....
everyone is complaining not getting a big (enough) name, but knowing our management, there is a risk that we ain't get no one. :nervous: So somebody is definitely better than nobody. It is not like we are paying that 10-15 millions out of our pockets anyway. :zany:
Schiaffino
26-08-2006, 11:28
Ricardo Oliveira is a good striker, but not exactly a dream transfer, it must be said.
hitmannq8
26-08-2006, 12:12
Oliveira has undergone a medical at Milan. Its on the official website.
Graeme C
26-08-2006, 12:19
but he hasnt signed anything? how long does a medical take?
My worry is RO could turn out to be another Donati or Janku.
maybe there is a problem with his knee, and today Udinese coach said he is not sure about Iaquinta staying in Udine. im just passing the news to you...
Graeme C
26-08-2006, 12:23
maybe there is a problem with his knee, and today Udinese coach said he is not sure about Iaquinta staying in Udine. im just passing the news to you...
yeah im getting that feeling, when we signed Gilardino the transfer was pretty quick! its silly that were after players like Ronaldo (who just had knee surgery) and Oliveira who had a real bad injury
the transfer is confirmed... source:goal.com
Graeme C
26-08-2006, 12:36
not confirmed on acmilan.com or gazzetta
Maltese Charlie
26-08-2006, 12:46
maybe there is a problem with his knee, and today Udinese coach said he is not sure about Iaquinta staying in Udine. im just passing the news to you...
Rumors from Italy are saying that Milan will go for Iaquinta even if we sign Oliviera.
Also Barzagli and Oddo.
hitmannq8
26-08-2006, 12:57
Sad :( Iaquinta must easily be the worst striker in Serie A right now that Corradi has left.
Schiaffino
26-08-2006, 13:04
Sad :( Iaquinta must easily be the worst striker in Serie A right now that Corradi has left.
I fully agree, he is an awful player... why not, for instance, head for Tavano or Vucinic, or maybe Reyes?
Hasan Rossonero
26-08-2006, 13:09
Sad :( Iaquinta must easily be the worst striker in Serie A right now that Corradi has left.
Spot on with Corradi.
Iaquinta is not prolific but tactically he is brilliant. Look at how Lippi used him in the World Cup. His speed and ability to appear on either flank caused problems for defences.
Also, he can hold the ball up very well.
Just my 2 cents.
Hasan Rossonero
26-08-2006, 13:10
not confirmed on acmilan.com or gazzetta
acmilan.com have reported he went through his medical today.
He will probably be presented later today or Monday. If he would have failed his medical I think the site would have said as much.
he underwent medical check today <acmilan.com> Does that mean he won't come?
well we are desprate so i wouldnt mind closing the tarnsfer market with ricardo,iuaqinta, and oddo.
From the spanish newspaper AS :
Ricardo Oliveira, forward of the Betis, today passed the medical examination with Milan, previous to its draftee by the club lombardo, announced the Italian organization in its page Web.
According to Milan informed, the attacker arrived this morning, to the 12,00 hours, the sport city of Milanello, where it happened to the pertinent medical examination with the Italian club, with which, at first, it will tie by the four next seasons.
There may be some words u cant understand..it maybe from the translator
All I'm finding on the Milan official site is that he underwent his medical at noon today.
Hasan Rossonero
26-08-2006, 14:19
There are still some financial details to be sorted out with Betis...according to calciomercato.it.
Then the official announcment will come.
Arildonardo
26-08-2006, 14:26
My worry is RO could turn out to be another Donati or Janku.
There always a slight chance that a new signing will not shine as we hope to, but that's a risk we have to take. It's too easy to come afterwards to say "what did I tell you?"...
Maltese Charlie
26-08-2006, 14:42
Good news for most of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At San Siro half time score
Inter 1 Roma 3
Inter had a total confusion in the first half,.
hitmannq8
26-08-2006, 14:44
roma could have scored more!
Hasan Rossonero
26-08-2006, 14:47
Good news for most of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At San Siro half time score
Inter 1 Roma 3
Inter had a total confusion in the first half,.
Yep and Ibrahimovic looked :cpuke: as usual.
he underwent medical check today <acmilan.com> Does that mean he won't come?
Why would that mean he's not coming? If he passed he most likely will come. I've never heard of anyone failing a medical.
Graeme C
26-08-2006, 15:40
Beto did i think
hitmannq8
26-08-2006, 15:43
Why would that mean he's not coming? If he passed he most likely will come. I've never heard of anyone failing a medical.
Oh alot of ppl fail medicals, i'll remind you of someone who failed a medical at Milan this summer: Poulsen.
And thank god we didnt sign Ibra, is anyone seeing how much he is missing for Inter? haha! But crespo is playin really well. I also noticed Adriano got subbed off first, and the Ibra/Crespo partnership is doing better. I hope we can snatch Adriano as a surprise.
Really? I thought negotiations just broke off with Poulsen. I think Oliveira passed, but all it says is that he underwent the medical :confused:
hitmannq8
26-08-2006, 15:59
Maybe they used the failing a medical just as an excuse to break off the negotiations, but im pretty sure thats what I read.
Btw, inter came back from 3-0 down and are now winning 4-3. 2nd half extra time is about to start.
sheva-gila
26-08-2006, 16:40
Before giving the definitive announcement, the rossoneri must in fact end to personalize some economic details with betis
calciomercato.it
ahhh I apologise its been already posted from HASAN ROSSONERO. :dontkn: :dontkn:
If anyone wants to get a peek at Oliveira in action, here are a couple of videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z71lDzqZcE
This one is short, but it shows him basically leaving the entire Barcelona team in his wake (he seems to be a thorn in Barcelona's side quite often):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC4tYChMOrs&mode=related&search=
sheva-gila
26-08-2006, 17:10
now the new player ????
http://www.skylife.it/html/skylife/sport/video_sport.html?video=1
Graeme C
26-08-2006, 17:32
have to agree with hitmannq8, i swear i read that Poulsen Failed a medical with us! it might not have been on Danish news, but maybe on sports.it or something...
hows denmark Capo?
Nope, Christian Poulsen never had a medical with Milan. We were interested, but he choose Sevilla, because he feared a lack of first football with Milan.
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/apr8d.html
Milan scrap Poulsen move?
There are reports in the Italian Press this morning that Milan have abandoned their bid for Christian Poulsen after a medical.
Both the club and the Danish international had hinted that the deal was ready to be completed with a free transfer in the summer, even going so far as to tear up a pre-contract agreement with Villarreal.
Today there are suggestions that the move has collapsed because a preliminary medical found an ankle problem that the Rossoneri were not happy with.
However, there are also rumours that this is a smokescreen so that they can back out of their agreement to sign the Schalke 04 player.
Poulsen’s arrival caused controversy among the fans and squad, as he infuriated Milan with his rough marking of Kaka during their Champions League meetings earlier this season.
The players and Coach Carlo Ancelotti referred to his tactics as “anti-football” and “the actions of a coward,” while he had a particularly vicious set-to with Gennaro Gattuso.
Here is another reason for Poulsen to be persona non grata among the supporters – he would most likely push fan favourite Gattuso out of the squad.
The Danish international is no stranger to controversy in Italy, as he is the player who harangued Francesco Totti to such a degree that the Azzurri man spat at him in Euro 2004, earning a ban.
zlatanov
26-08-2006, 17:56
Spot on with Corradi.
Iaquinta is not prolific but tactically he is brilliant. Look at how Lippi used him in the World Cup. His speed and ability to appear on either flank caused problems for defences.
Also, he can hold the ball up very well.
Just my 2 cents.
agree with Hasan. Before the WC, I couldn't understand why Lippi left Lucarelli at home and took Iaquinta in Germany. And the fact that Pippo spent so much time on the bench only for the Udinese player to come in made me ignore Iaquinta's qualities even more but, as Hasan said, he may not score that many goals but his movement off and on the ball is pretty good and with his pace, he could be seen as a wing player almost.
I would be happy with a front 4 of Pippo, Gila, RO, VI, although my preferred formation given the latest developements and our options out there would be - Pippo, Gila, RO, David Suazo.
Forza Milan !!!!!
Capo Ultra
26-08-2006, 18:01
God damn...
I guess I was wrong. I never thought/remembered that we were so close to signing him. But I don't remember seeing it on acmilan.com. Thank God he failed..! :sagrin:
@Graeme C
Denmark is awesome :cool:
Ah, well, after I wrote that I checked that other place again last night and found that the Pessimist Patrol had come out in full force over there too. I guess they just have a later-arriving crowd. :de3:
I don't know what it is with Milan fans. The club is signing a very good striker; someone who (with the exception of name recognition) fits the profile of the type of player they have claimed all summer that Milan needs; someone who has won championships, both domestic and European, and who has a history of scoring goals in the "big games"; someone with pace, skill and finishing ability. Yet half of Milan fans bemoan the fact that they have never heard of him (as if they had heard of Kaka) or that he's not a "big name" (read: overhyped) and therefore can't replace Shevchenko (as if anyone could).
Many posters have been depressed that Inter "beat Milan" to Ibrahimovic (even though Milan didn't actually bid on him, despite the newspaper hype). Well if somebody had said to me the day after Sheva left: "Rick, you get to choose Milan's new striker, but you only have two choices. You can have either Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Ricardo Oliveira." I would not have hesitated to choose Oliveira over that overrated, overhyped primadonna. Oliveira is a better player right now than Fernando Torres, who half this board has been wanking over all summer. (That may change someday, but right now he is a better, more consistent and more polished player.)
I just don't know what people want. The Pessimist Patrol isn't going to be satisfied no matter who Milan signs. :musk:
Rick, i have been putting up with people who know very little about football and criticising our management's signings: bonera,favalli,gourcuff,brocchi now oliveira without giving them any chances. i think those people just need to play computer game called championship manager instead!
zZ[-_-]Zz
26-08-2006, 18:18
i suggest the fans that do not want Oliveira in Milan to go buy some manager football game... build up a super squad of big names & be happy... don't forget... recently a very average Sevilla hammered a super squad of Barca... go figure...
I know exactly what you guys mean. It seems a lot of Milan fans would rather Milan follow a "gallacticos" policy like Real Madrid. They want to have a superstar at every position. And if the guy isn't overhyped or they haven't determined just how good the guy will be by playing championship manager, then obviously the player must be crap. After all (fill in the blank) doesn't know anything about him. Or (fill in the blank) saw him play one game and he didn't score a goal so he's crap. Half of Milan fans, it seems, have deluded themselves into believing that they know better and could do a better job of building a team than these guys who have made Milan the world's most successful club. It truly boggles the mind.
:w200:
Real Madrid is the world's most succesfull club....sad but true. I personally dont think I could do a job like PROFESSIONALS in Milan do, but this is forum and we can talk about it as much as we can. And as Grenoli once said, this is football and football is passion. Its not some British or Australian tea-party. Alowe people to scream, shout, swear and so on....football is like life, passionate. Without that its worth - nothing!
I first saw Ricardo Oliveira when he was at Santos (along with Alex) and expected both to have a great future. Oliveira has everything - pace, power, good in the air, an explosive shot and is two footed. His athleticism is out of this world and in terms of finishing I would say he's already better than Shevchenko ever was.
I just hope there are no last minute hitches and the move goes through. I've convinced he will be a massive success.
Sad :( Iaquinta must easily be the worst striker in Serie A right now that Corradi has left.
You have got to be serious. He is not an out and out striker, he spends a lot of time outside the box linking play and as we saw at the World Cup can play on the flanks. He would be a great signing and gives the attack some serious muscle. I’d rather have Iaquinta than a lazy twat like Adriano.
Good. I thought I was the only guy here who never heard of him :D
It's funny how so many people hype up players like Tevez, Aguero and numerous other Argentinean midgets, most of whom they have seen very little of yet know nothing about a striker who scored against Barcelona and Real Madrid in his first season in La Liga and 22 goals the next.
You have got to be serious. He is not an out and out striker, he spends a lot of time outside the box linking play and as we saw at the World Cup can play on the flanks. He would be a great signing and gives the attack some serious muscle. I’d rather have Iaquinta than a lazy twat like Adriano.
For what it's worth, I have Iaquinta ranked as the 28th best goal scoring forward per minute in Serie A last season. So, even if his job isn't a typical striker, he's certainly capable of it.
Calling him the worst in Serie A is ridiculous.
Although I agree some fans are too harsh,there are two extremes. Either noone is good enough if they are not hyped up at all or there is total and utter blind faith. I mean it was a total joke how some people felt Sobis would become what Kaka became and now Olivera is the answer to the worlds problems.
The only thin we can do is wait and hope that he proves to be a good signing and Milan strenten in other departments.
I know exactly what you guys mean. It seems a lot of Milan fans would rather Milan follow a "gallacticos" policy like Real Madrid. They want to have a superstar at every position. And if the guy isn't overhyped or they haven't determined just how good the guy will be by playing championship manager, then obviously the player must be crap. After all (fill in the blank) doesn't know anything about him. Or (fill in the blank) saw him play one game and he didn't score a goal so he's crap. Half of Milan fans, it seems, have deluded themselves into believing that they know better and could do a better job of building a team than these guys who have made Milan the world's most successful club. It truly boggles the mind.
:w200:
Rick, there is no need to divide us into factions, and there is no need to call some of us "deluded". You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone here in the forum. And no matter how "optimistic" and "bright" your views are, it doesnt make it any better than anyone else's opinion. A few points I would like to make to counter your argument:
1) Yes, Berlusconi/Galliani et al have made us a very successful club. But are you telling me that they have not made mistakes along the way? They are fallible just like the rest of us. Remember the Zaccheroni years? Remember Oscar Tabarez? Remember Martin Laursen? Remember Javi Moreno? Remember Lentini? I can go on and on. But our management has made their fair share of mistakes and if some of us are complaining about Oliveira's signing, it's not because we dont trust the management or we think we're better than them, it's simply because we are afraid that they might be making a mistake. What's wrong with that?
2) If I told you six months ago that our squad for the 2006-2007 season would be minus Shevchenko and plus Oliveira. Would you be happy? I'm not, and I'm not even going to pretend to be happy. We are AC Milan. We are a BIG club with high expectations. If we lose Sheva, we EXPECT a more suitable replacement. What's wrong with that?
3) Why the all or nothing mentality? If some of us are demanding a high profile signing to REPLACE Sheva, why does that make us proponents of the galactico policy? Who has said that we need to have high profile players in every position on the pitch and occupying every square inch of our substitute bench? There is no need to make such broad generalizations.
4) I agree with Jim_UK about Oliveira. If he was indeed such a great name, why are no other clubs linked to him? Please dont tell me that the MIlan management are in to a secret about Oliveira's abilities which have not been discovered by the rest of the football world. Dont forget, He was our SECOND choice. We are signing him simply because we missed out on Ronaldo. I dont know about you, but second choice as a replacement for Sheva is not good enough for me.
I am also an optimistic person by nature, but I dont engage in fantasty and I dont "spin" things to justifiy people's actions or inactions in this matter. I am a realist and I will tell it like it is. Our managment has done very POORLY this summer with regards to transfers. They have grossly misjudged the potential of our team and our lack of squad depth. They have not strengthened the team adequately and we might pay a price for this down the line. Now you can call me "half empty" and "phan" or whatever you like, but sometimes when you love and care about something, you need to also criticize when you see that things arent going so well.
Real Madrid is the world's most succesfull club....sad but true. I personally dont think I could do a job like PROFESSIONALS in Milan do, but this is forum and we can talk about it as much as we can. And as Grenoli once said, this is football and football is passion. Its not some British or Australian tea-party. Alowe people to scream, shout, swear and so on....football is like life, passionate. Without that its worth - nothing!
Real Madrid is the most successful club throughout history, but Milan has been more successful than Real Madrid during Berlusconi's ownership. Milan has won more European titles (4 to Madrid's 3, plus has appeared in the final 7 times during the period in question to just 3 for Madrid), more European Supercups (4 to Madrid's 1) and an equal number of Intercontinental Cups (2 apiece). The only area where Milan holds an edge is domestic titles (8 to Milan's 7) and even that could be argued for Milan in light of Juventus' actions over the past two seasons. So I stand by my statement that Berlusconi and his staff have made Milan the most successful club in the world.
And of course everyone should be able to show passion. But when that passion is misdirected be prepared for others to call you on it.
I know that you guys reading this is like me taking the beer away from a frat party :ban: but are you guys serious? Ricardo Olivera?
I have seen Ricardo Olivera play, and honestly i think he is a very goog player, but I still question whether he is Milan material
The way I see it, as far as strikers go,there are magical , there are great and there are good
A magical fowars is one who can turn a match on its head. When feeling in the mood defenders simply don't matter. Only a few come to mind here:
Ronaldo, Ronaldinho Shevchenko and Henry ( with Messi soon to join them)
Of what I have seen of Olivera, he is a pretty straightfoward striker- solid but nothing special. I hope he proves me wrong. Sobis on the other hand loked to have what it takes to become a magician- but hey Sheva Failed a dribbling test when he was a kid and look where he's at (and no I don't mean Chelsea :v46: )
Real Madrid is the most successful club throughout history, but Milan has been more successful than Real Madrid during Berlusconi's ownership. Milan has won more European titles (4 to Madrid's 3, plus has appeared in the final 7 times during the period in question to just 3 for Madrid), more European Supercups (4 to Madrid's 1) and an equal number of Intercontinental Cups (2 apiece). The only area where Milan holds an edge is domestic titles (8 to Milan's 7) and even that could be argued for Milan in light of Juventus' actions over the past two seasons. So I stand by my statement that Berlusconi and his staff have made Milan the most successful club in the world.
And of course everyone should be able to show passion. But when that passion is misdirected be prepared for others to call you on it.
I think the only reason why Real Madrid is 'the most' successful is due to the fact that they won 3 or 4 European titles in the 60's.
Milan won more titles during the 'modern' era.
That's my 2 cents....
I know exactly what you guys mean. It seems a lot of Milan fans would rather Milan follow a "gallacticos" policy like Real Madrid.
:w200:
Hey, we signed nothing but average players all summer long, from Favalli to Bonera now to Oliveira.
Did Milan suddenly turn into Modena overnight?
At least 1-2 great signings would balance out our transfer season.
We are quite far away from anything resembling a gallaticos policy...
Rick, there is no need to divide us into factions, and there is no need to call some of us "deluded". You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone here in the forum. And no matter how "optimistic" and "bright" your views are, it doesnt make it any better than anyone else's opinion. A few points I would like to make to counter your argument:
Nobody is dividing anybody into factions. It's just that some seem to be obsessively negative about everything and not only seem to have no faith in the management but seem to believe, by default, that any move Milan makes is a poor one. Some would not be satisfied no matter who Milan signed.
1) Yes, Berlusconi/Galliani et al have made us a very successful club. But are you telling me that they have not made mistakes along the way? They are fallible just like the rest of us. Remember the Zaccheroni years? Remember Oscar Tabarez? Remember Martin Laursen? Remember Javi Moreno? Remember Lentini? I can go on and on. But our management has made their fair share of mistakes and if some of us are complaining about Oliveira's signing, it's not because we dont trust the management or we think we're better than them, it's simply because we are afraid that they might be making a mistake. What's wrong with that?
Nobody ever implied that Milan has never made a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes. But obviously Milan has made less mistakes than most or they would not have been so successful during the Berlusconi years. Okay, so you think Milan is making a mistake, right? What's wrong with that, you ask? Well, the fact is that Milan could be making a mistake no matter who they signed. Can you think of a single player Milan could be buying who would be a sure bet? There are no guarantees in life or in football. The Milan management knows more about these players than every poster here combined. If they have confidence that Oliveira will be a successful player at Milan, then I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. Besides, if you notice, the posters who have actually seen the guy play with any frequency tend to be in favor of the signing. Most of the bitching seems to come from those who either haven't heard much about him or are worried that his name isn't linked to clubs that they obviously have more faith in than they do in Milan.
2) If I told you six months ago that our squad for the 2006-2007 season would be minus Shevchenko and plus Oliveira. Would you be happy? I'm not, and I'm not even going to pretend to be happy. We are AC Milan. We are a BIG club with high expectations. If we lose Sheva, we EXPECT a more suitable replacement. What's wrong with that?
This entire line of reasoning is immaterial. Obviously I would not have been happy to lose Shevchenko. But you could have replaced Oliveira's name with any other and it would not change that fact. You say you EXPECT a more suitable replacement. Well who exactly is that? And what makes you a better judge of who is or is not a suitable replacement than the Milan brain trust?
3) Why the all or nothing mentality? If some of us are demanding a high profile signing to REPLACE Sheva, why does that make us proponents of the galactico policy? Who has said that we need to have high profile players in every position on the pitch and occupying every square inch of our substitute bench? There is no need to make such broad generalizations.
Why does it have to be a so-called "high profile" signing? Personally, I don't give a crap if nobody ever heard of a player as long as he can contribute to Milan's success. Wouldn't you rather have a good player than a big name?
4) I agree with Jim_UK about Oliveira. If he was indeed such a great name, why are no other clubs linked to him? Please dont tell me that the MIlan management are in to a secret about Oliveira's abilities which have not been discovered by the rest of the football world. Dont forget, He was our SECOND choice. We are signing him simply because we missed out on Ronaldo. I dont know about you, but second choice as a replacement for Sheva is not good enough for me.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions here. First off, you're assuming that no other clubs were interested in Oliveira simply because it wasn't splashed all over the same newspapers that had Kaka on his way to Real Madrid all summer, despite all the evidence to the contrary. You're putting entirely too much faith in the media to shape your opinions. The truth is, none of us have any idea what contacts and negotiations go on behind the scenes and therefore have no idea who might or might not have been interested in Oliveira. And, considering that it was assumed he would come back from rehab to play for Betis this year and he only recently became available, how do you know that Milan didn't simply react more quickly than other clubs and snatch him up?
Also, you don't know that he was a second choice. Again, you're relying on newspaper accounts. Milan has been linked to all sorts of strikers this summer, beginning with Thierry Henry, but nobody knows what has actually happened behind closed doors. How do you know that Milan didn't want to purchase both Oliveira and Ronaldo? How do you know they won't still acquire another striker? You don't. You're just making assumptions.
I am also an optimistic person by nature, but I dont engage in fantasty and I dont "spin" things to justifiy people's actions or inactions in this matter. I am a realist and I will tell it like it is. Our managment has done very POORLY this summer with regards to transfers. They have grossly misjudged the potential of our team and our lack of squad depth. They have not strengthened the team adequately and we might pay a price for this down the line. Now you can call me "half empty" and "phan" or whatever you like, but sometimes when you love and care about something, you need to also criticize when you see that things arent going so well.
Milan probably missed out on a couple of good players due to the uncertainty surround the scandal and the Champions League, but how is that the fault of the management? What were they supposed to do? Would you rather they had just signed a bunch of mediocre players just to say they signed somebody? And you are making final judgements on a process that is not yet complete. The transfer window is not shut. There will be another in January. You have absolutely no idea what negotations are ongoing. What if Milan were to sign, for example, Tevez, Buffon, Oddo and Gallas this week? Would you still consider the transfer season a failure? And you can scream your head off saying Milan isn't going to sign those guys. Well, maybe they won't sign those particular guys. But there is still time to sign players, so why don't we just all try to remain calm and wait to see what happens?
Schiaffino
26-08-2006, 22:44
Mister Rt9:
I want to congratulate you for the excellent post describing our current situation. I agree, in fact, with everything you said, and would like to add a footnote only: I guess our problem is a question of mentality. the board is not reacting with the correct frame of mind to the demands and characteristics of modern football market. As someone wrote before on the forum, marketing unfortunatelly is the key today, so the any talented player, or even just fairly talented ones, is rated artificially high, and there's no way to escape that.
1) Yes, Berlusconi/Galliani et al have made us a very successful club. But are you telling me that they have not made mistakes along the way? They are fallible just like the rest of us. Remember the Zaccheroni years? Remember Oscar Tabarez? Remember Martin Laursen? Remember Javi Moreno? Remember Lentini? I can go on and on. .
Was saying to same thing to Grenoli in another thread. It wasn't too long ago that Milan had players like Giunti, Sala, Helveg, Laursen, Beirhoff (a footballer that couldn't use his BOTH his legs). Those were dark days!
2) If I told you six months ago that our squad for the 2006-2007 season would be minus Shevchenko and plus Oliveira. Would you be happy? I'm not, and I'm not even going to pretend to be happy. We are AC Milan. We are a BIG club with high expectations. If we lose Sheva, we EXPECT a more suitable replacement. What's wrong with that?.
Well said!
4) I agree with Jim_UK about Oliveira. If he was indeed such a great name, why are no other clubs linked to him?
This is an interesting point. People say Kaka was a relative unknown as well, but Chelsea was also tracking him and almost signed him.
Schiaffino
26-08-2006, 22:49
Bottom line: if you wanna break big on today's football, you need to open your wallet, to splash the cash. There's no other option, it's take it or leave it.
Why do his posts seem so Gre-no-li-ish.. the wording is almost exactly the same. Maybe it's just me.. and it's kinda late and I'm tired..
rahul.acm
26-08-2006, 22:57
Welcome to MM Schiaffino. :)
Please care to introduce yourself in the presentation thread: http://www.milanmania.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14
right on zafrul I mean I can't remember there being a big fuss over Olivera when he went to Spain, and once you're South American and you're half good you get a lot of hype. Note, I'm not saying that he isn't or isn't going to be great.
For the life of me I can't see what seems to be our problem with spending on players we NEED Ronaldo was one of them so was Sobis, so was Diarra and so is gallas.
Manchester United with their in-debt owner have bought Carrick and are hot on the heels of Tevez
What pisses me off the most is that Real Madrid is getting Chivu- a player that we wanted for years :wallbang:
Schiaffino
26-08-2006, 23:26
Thank you, Rahul. :)
Josh-Sheva
27-08-2006, 00:38
Real Madrid is not gettnig Chivu yet, he wants to stay at Roma and I honestly don't think he is gonna move.
joumasepoes
27-08-2006, 03:10
is olivera official yet? i will believe that he is no more than a fringe player- a younger version of amoroso. we still need a world class striker. milan is ina big hole now. Before sheva left we needed a slighly better midfield and a younger defense, now its all those problems and the need for a world class striker - not cool
kastriot
27-08-2006, 05:16
I think the only reason why Real Madrid is 'the most' successful is due to the fact that they won 3 or 4 European titles in the 60's.
Milan won more titles during the 'modern' era.
That's my 2 cents....
They won 5 cups in a row, probably at that time some real madrid fan was in charge of Fifa than. That only means that they were playing periodically good, and they played some bad football during the 70 s. 80 s and beginings of 90 s. until they won a Cl cup after 32 yers. :5milan: :5milan: :5milan:
Hasan Rossonero
27-08-2006, 06:27
is olivera official yet? i will believe that he is no more than a fringe player- a younger version of amoroso. we still need a world class striker. milan is ina big hole now. Before sheva left we needed a slighly better midfield and a younger defense, now its all those problems and the need for a world class striker - not cool
Mystery on Oliveira's Milan move Sunday 27 August, 2006
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Milan confirmed Ricardo Oliveira underwent a medical yesterday, but his agent warns there are still obstacles to the transfer.
The 26-year-old Brazilian hitman, who spent much of last season on loan at San Paolo while he recovered from November’s knee ligament injury, took his medical examination at MilanLab on Saturday afternoon.
However, the official confirmation of the results – or of a signed contract – are still nowhere to be seen 24 hours later.
It’s now reported that the player and his agent have returned to Spain for a meeting with Real Betis Sevilla directors, as the club is holding out to delay this £10m transfer.
There are claims that President Lopera won’t release Oliveira until he pays the £700,000 fine for returning from Brazil nine days later than planned.
There could also be another penalty for his flight to Milan on Friday, as the striker failed to attend negotiations with Zenit St Petersburg and Fenerbahce, choosing instead to finalise details with the Rossoneri.
“It’s a delicate operation and we need time, so this has to be taken very, very slowly,” warned agent Roberto de Assis Moreira in the ‘Corriere dello Sport’.
“Milan are one of the biggest clubs in the world and, in particular, are always well supported in Brazil.”
Oliveira’s choice has also sparked interest among the Italian and South American newspapers, as his agent is the brother of Ronaldinho – a confirmed Rossoneri target.
“My brother is my idol,” said Moreira. “He is a hero who has always helped me in my life.” It’s reported that if Ronaldinho does decide to leave Barcelona, his number one choice would be Milan.
Other newspapers take a different view of the situation, believing that the delay in Oliveira’s transfer is so that the San Siro giants can renew their bid to sign Ronaldo from Real Madrid.
Negotiations for a £15m move collapsed earlier this week due to the price-tag, but with Coach Fabio Capello unsure of his fitness, the Spaniards could still drop their demands.
veronica
27-08-2006, 06:56
I'm still sad we didn't sign Crespo
zlatanov
27-08-2006, 07:05
Welcome to MM Schiaffino. :)
Please care to introduce yourself in the presentation thread: http://www.milanmania.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14
no need for that Rahul. Sciaffino has already introduced himself to MM ... under the nick Gre-No-Li, of course :rolleyes:
I'd like to know who "they" all are, this mysterious group of members who dare to ask questions about players. With the exception of a few people slating him before he's got here (if he gets here), i think most people are just trying to determine how good he is before forming an opinion of him.
Facts & figures can be insightful but also used to form any number of conclusions.
Pro Oliveira camp: Oliveira scored more goals than Torres in the past two seasons, so he must be better than him !
Pro Torres camp: Torres has scored more goals in La Liga than Oliveira has !
Pro Oliveira camp: Oliveira scored against Madrid and Barca so he must be a great player in big games !
Pro Torres camp: Torres ripped Barca apart in one game and has tormented all La Liga defences !
You can twist these things to suit any needs, it doesn't prove a great deal at the end of it. It is a pity he was injured last November as we don't know if his top scorer award was a one off wonder season or if he's genuinely capable of maintaining that form year after year. Only time will tell if he does come to us and if he is capable of scoring regularly.
For my part i don't care who he is or how big a 'name' he has aslong as he can regularly score around 15-20 league goals a season.
For my part i don't care who he is or how big a 'name' he has aslong as he can regularly score around 15-20 league goals a season.
I think you'll be quite happy with Oliveira then. :beer:
zlatanov
27-08-2006, 07:41
well, let's first wait till the transfer is official, then we could start openning the bottles with champaigne ;)
im sure we will sign Oliveira, but w all must know that now our attack will be weaker than last year's. If we work well with Oliveira ( which we will do in Milanello ), he could be back soon as he used to be, and that is a pretty good and fast forward. But Sheva is Sheva, a killer. Now our CM needs to work more as Oliveira cant decide the games the way Sheva could. Our only hope is that Gilardino will start to play like he did in Parma. He used to hold on to tackles, score from first touch, moved MUCH BETTER and so on..... lets wait few months and see it all.
im sure we will sign Oliveira, but w all must know that now our attack will be weaker than last year's. If we work well with Oliveira ( which we will do in Milanello ), he could be back soon as he used to be, and that is a pretty good and fast forward. But Sheva is Sheva, a killer. Now our CM needs to work more as Oliveira cant decide the games the way Sheva could. Our only hope is that Gilardino will start to play like he did in Parma. He used to hold on to tackles, score from first touch, moved MUCH BETTER and so on..... lets wait few months and see it all.
I agree mrki. A healthy Oliveira and an in-form Gilardino would be a very effective strike force. Obviously, nobody is going to do all the things Sheva did -- at least right away -- but if Gilardino steps up and Milan acquires some defensive reinforcement, the team could actually be better.
I, too, am confident the Oliveira signing will go through since apparently he passed the physical and the player definitely wants to be at Milan. It seems Betis received better offers from two other clubs after accepting Milan's offer and is now using the fine they levied against Oliveira as an excuse to try to get Milan to back out. I think they'll sort it out.
I think you'll be quite happy with Oliveira then. :beer:
I'm sure i'd be happy with him if he had a consistent record.
joumasepoes
27-08-2006, 08:12
Well i bet the second after sheva took off, and the board tells us that Oliveira is his replacement i bet most fans would be disapointed. Using La Liga as a measuring stick for a strikers performance is unreliable. its so slow and innefective. The closest to measure him by is champions league/uefa cup and he didnt exactly set the world alight. I really thought v.Nistelroy would come here, perhaps we acted to slow. yes then milan werent in the CL, but we could of made contact and tell him to wait. he only cost 15 million euros and that was according to our budget. Im sure olveira is a good player but he is by no means a great player. Berlusconi in my opinion should have made a higher bid for fat ronnie. he isnt bad he is just out of shape a bit, and lost his drive. he needs to come to milan to get all that back. He has been the top scorer in all competitions in all of his seasons at madrid so yeah. I'll just wait and see until the end of the transfer window, which is on thursday?
I'm sure i'd be happy with him if he had a consistent record.
His record seems consistent to me. He's been an excellent player and consistent goalscorer everywhere he's been.
The closest to measure him by is champions league/uefa cup and he didnt exactly set the world alight.
Oh, I don't think three goals in four matches before getting hurt against Chelsea in the fifth is too bad. And he was a key player in Valencia winning the UEFA Cup. So he's actually done quite well with the opportunities he's had.
Look, Ronaldino and Henry aren't available, even to Milan. I realize that's just about all that would satisfy some of you because you want to replace big name with big name and have a feeling that you're getting a guarantee. Life doesn't work that way. Neither does football. If Oliveira is healthy and Milan finalizes the deal, they will be getting a very good striker who will help the team. I don't know why some of you can't just relax and give the guy a chance to show you what he can do before you proclaim the deal to be some huge failure on the part of Milan's management.
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