View Full Version : Shopping in Vicenza or shopping in Porto Alegre ?
This thread's place may be here or may be in discussions topic, so a mod can move it in discussions if he thinks that's where it belongs !
My motive for writting this are all these Brazilian and Argentine names that come up in Transfer threads. Marcelo, Gago, Lucas, Higuain, Pezzini.....and atleast 20 more names.
Brazil, with 5 WC titles, is concidered to be the greatest football power, a country where good players grow up on the trees. I wanna say, there's no doubt great talents can be found in S. America...but what about our own backyard ?
Italy, not Brazil or Argentina, is the World Champion in football. Italy, with 4 WC titles is just behind Brazil in the All-time list.
Where did these world champions play when they were 18, 19 or 20 years old ? Not in Brazil, i can say !
19 yers old Roberto Baggio from FC Vicenza, 19 years old Del Piero from Padova FC, 18 years old Andrea Pirlo from Brescia FC , 20 years old Zambrotta from FC Bari, 20 years old Inzaghi from Albinoleffe , 17 years old Luca Toni from Modena, 18 years old Perrotta from Regina, 18 years old Cassano from Bari................. wanna hear more names? and hear where were all of them when they were 18,19,20 years old ? Where are all of them now ? On top of the world, right ?
Italy u-21 squad is concidered to be the best european squad traditionally. 5 times champions in last 8 european championships !
I must tell you that traditionally Milan and most of all Juventus were going after this Italian talents.
There were 5 Milan players winning the WC, there were 5 current and 3 ex Juve players in Italian winning team in 2006.
In 1994, when Italy almost won the WC, 9 players came from AC Milan, 4 from Juventus.
In 1982 when Italy became the champion of the world for the 3rd time, Juventus had 8 of it's players in the team.
It's obvious Milan was going after the Italian greatest talents in the past.
But now, i can see Juve is again interested in almost every young Italian out there, but there is some trend in Milan, for going after south Americans and fogetting the Italians.
Marco Amelia aint the only young talent in Italy. Italians made it to the European u21 championship again, after eliminating one of the biggest favourites- Spain.
And again, there are fantastic talents in this team :
Did you hear about Italian u21 number 10, Alessandro Rosina from Torino ?
The young striker Graziano Pelle from Genoa ?
Nicola Pozzi, who's Milan's player actually, and is now loaned in Empoli ? He does plays for Italian u21 team !
What happened to Milan's interest in young Giuseppe Rossi ?
Danielle Dessena from Parma , anyone ? Juve is allready flerting with him!
Andrea Mantovani from Chievo ? Antonio Nocerino from Piacenza ?
Ok, some of them can not be bought easily by Milan, like Juve's Chiellini, Palladino and Paro ( Paro is compared to Pirlo, and he even got a call from Donadoni for a friendly match Italy plays this November). Montolivo from Fiorentina, Aqualiani from Roma etc...
They are all u21 players, and stongest favourites to win European gold again.
I believe you understood my point !
All these players are based in Italy allready, and unlike Marcelo, they don't cheer for Real Madrid and they don't wanna play in Spain only.
As for the talent..... similar, same, or even bigger talent than the south americans !
Part of it comes down to cost. Which seems to be a similar trouble in England. Buying homegrown talents is expensive in both these countries. Unless you're lucky enough to purchase a young Italian player just before he becomes a possible star, you run the risk of having your wallet emptied. South American clubs are poorer and some South American talents are ludicrously cheaper.
So cost is one thing.
The other big problem is that some of these players are already owned by big clubs which makes them hard to get. Teams like Roma, Juve, Man Utd are hardly likely to give up their future stars easily or cheaply. So again it comes back to cost.
Though i may post alot about these South American players, i would prefer to see Milan have a strong Italian core throughout the team if possible or at least have half the squad Italian. So if you can find an Italian who is seen to be as talented as Marcelo and available for as little as 7 million euros, then please inform us! I'd ask you to inform Braida, but as your Juventini, you'd go straight to Deschamps :D
I too hope Milan doesn't get overrun with foreigners. Sure 1-2 south americans aren't a problem..but when more than half the starting 11 isn't italian..there's a problem. Note I'm not saying that it is at the moment..but if it gets to that, that's really sad. BTW Carlo said that Antonelli is in terms of talent, ready for the first team. He just needs to grow physically.
joumasepoes
11-11-2006, 02:58
Part of it comes down to cost. Which seems to be a similar trouble in England. Buying homegrown talents is expensive in both these countries. Unless you're lucky enough to purchase a young Italian player just before he becomes a possible star, you run the risk of having your wallet emptied. South American clubs are poorer and some South American talents are ludicrously cheaper.
So cost is one thing.
The other big problem is that some of these players are already owned by big clubs which makes them hard to get. Teams like Roma, Juve, Man Utd are hardly likely to give up their future stars easily or cheaply. So again it comes back to cost.
Though i may post alot about these South American players, i would prefer to see Milan have a strong Italian core throughout the team if possible or at least have half the squad Italian. So if you can find an Italian who is seen to be as talented as Marcelo and available for as little as 7 million euros, then please inform us! I'd ask you to inform Braida, but as your Juventini, you'd go straight to Deschamps :D
You got that right. Marcelo for example has a ludicrisly low price tag of 6million. I have a feeling of if he was in Europe youth team he's tag would be at least double that. It just comes down to monetry value. Euros/pounds are worth alot to South America and especially African clubs. I'll tell you 1 thing. If milan can scout a player in Africa with a talent like Marcelo id guarantee less than a million euro price! But of course it would be near impossible to find a good player in Africa
great post Tony29., totally agree.
i think one more reason why they go for south americans is that they are more hyped and can be better sold in italy. most people neve have seen marcelo or other "future stars" from SA play and so it is easy for papers to hype them through the roof.
the unknown is always mysterious
During this summer, I was actually dreaming of this lineup for this season, 9 Italians and 2 foreigners in the starting 11:
----------------Buffon-----------------------
-Zambrotta--Nesta---Kaladze-----------------
----------------------------------Maldini-----
------------------Gattuso-------------------
------------------------Pirlo-----------------
Foggia---------------------------------------
-------------------Kaka----------------------
----------------------------Cassano----------
--------------Gilardino------------------------
1) I love Dida, but Buffon is the only one that I don't mind as a replacement;
2) with Foggia and Cassno, even Pippo-Gilardino combo would work; the reason that this duo doesn't work out now is that we don't have a player like E$ who can stretch the opponent's defense; and Gilardino and Pippo often run into each other's way on the pitch.
stupid Galliani (Foggia, Zambrotta, Buffon) and damn Juve too (Zambrotta, Buffon). I know there is never IF, but IF we had this lineup and things could have been totally different. :d55:
I often miss the old policy that one team can only have 3 registered foreigner players. Last season, I would rather that Ancelotti gave more chances to Borriello than to Amoroso, even though I clearly understood that an old Amoroso is still much better than Borriello. :D I guess I am paranoid and biased. :D
also, I don't think that's a secret, but I always hope to have more Italian young talents in the squad, like our Foggia, Abate, Pozzi, Aubameyang (brothers). I have seen them play, and I think they are not bad. :) Given chances, they can only get better. I don't know about Di Gennaro, but I really don't mind giving him a chance. I also like to have from Juventus Balzaretti (?) and Chiellini; and Pasquale from Fiorentina (is he the one that used to play in Inter?). I regret that Panucci was such an @$$hole and Coco was a traitor; I regret that we spent so much money on Donati and he turned out useless (well, he did score an own goal for us this Wednesday, but it wasn't counted), and I haven't figured out why we had to loan out Foggia even though we didn't get Oddo and that Foggia could be our only true winger considering that Zambrotta wasn't coming and Serginho was injured... :fero:
well, I need to go to lunch now; and see you lot in two hours. Let's hope that we can kill Roma this afternoon. :swars: We need that.
AS ALWAYS, FORZA MILAN!!!
Brasileiro
11-11-2006, 17:15
I often miss the old policy that one team can only have 3 registered foreigner players. Last season, I would rather that Ancelotti gave more chances to Borriello than to Amoroso, even though I clearly understood that an old Amoroso is still much better than Borriello. :D I guess I am paranoid and biased. :D
also, I don't think that's a secret, but I always hope to have more Italian young talents in the squad, like our Foggia, Abate, Pozzi, Aubameyang (brothers). I have seen them play, and I think they are not bad. :) Given chances, they can only get better. I don't know about Di Gennaro, but I really don't mind giving him a chance. I also like to have from Juventus Balzaretti (?) and Chiellini; and Pasquale from Fiorentina (is he the one that used to play in Inter?). I regret that Panucci was such an @$$hole and Coco was a traitor; I regret that we spent so much money on Donati and he turned out useless (well, he did score an own goal for us this Wednesday, but it wasn't counted), and I haven't figured out why we had to loan out Foggia even though we didn't get Oddo and that Foggia could be our only true winger considering that Zambrotta wasn't coming and Serginho was injured... :fero:
well, I need to go to lunch now; and see you lot in two hours. Let's hope that we can kill Roma this afternoon. :swars: We need that.
AS ALWAYS, FORZA MILAN!!!
Yes, you are :D
Yes, you are :D
How rude! :fero:
:D :D :D :guw:
Add into that the fact that so many of the youth products hyped up in Italy over recent years following U-21 performances have turned out to be rather useless. Remember Comandini? The next Boninsegna, they said. Or Fausto Rossini, rated at $20 million before he'd even scored more than five goals in a season?
It's noticeable how Italy produces more late developers than elsewhere, especially with regard to strikers (Inzaghi, Toni etc). Milan have signed lots of young Italians in recent years, and a fair proportion have been rubbish. Dalla Bona anyone?
Sign good players at all costs. Preferably Italian, but make sure they're good above all else.
Xudong......I am not 100% positive, but Fiorentina's player is Manuel Pasqual. He is a different person then Giovani Pasquale, who played for Inter but now I think playes for Livorno. Again, I'm not sure.
Xudong......I am not 100% positive, but Fiorentina's player is Manuel Pasqual. He is a different person then Giovani Pasquale, who played for Inter but now I think playes for Livorno. Again, I'm not sure.
You're right !
Paqual is a Maradona compared to Pasquale.
If i'm not wrong he was leading the assist list last season. Great left foot and very fast left back/midfielder. Defensively he must improve, tho !
Arildonardo
12-11-2006, 17:35
I totally agree that Milan should also have a look at italian players. As an italian team, our team should consist mainly of italians, just added by 4-5 foreigners that are really some of the best of the best!
Old topic activated again :)
I don't know if many of you guys are in position to watch more serie A matches , apart from Milan's matches.
If some of you are ( i know guys from ex-Yugoslavia can watch at least 2-3 matches per week) then this thread could be a good place to talk about promising youngsters based in Italy , who made a good impression on you.
I was following some of the smaller teams in serie A closely, and i "felt in love" with 2 youngsters.
1. Cristián Zapata ( Udinese)
Nationality : Colombian
Age: 20
Position : Central Defender
------------------------
Imo, the best defender of serie A this season.
Really, i like watching organized defense, and i like good defenders so i think i can recognize a good defender when i see one.
But this guy is woooooow.
Only 20 years old and plays like an experienced world class defender. I watched him again yesterday against Torino and he totally frustrated Torino's attackers and midfielders. Great positioning, strenght, headings, tackles.
Juve was unsuccesful in the atempt to buy this youngster, because Udinese knows they have real gold in their team.
Later in the night i watched Palermo-Lazio and i compared Zapata with Barzagli.
I can tell you there's a huge difference and Barzagli is sooo overrated. Barza doesn't make some silly mistakes, but he's out of position many times and he's not leading the defense.
Zapata is. At only 20 he's the true leader of Udinese's defence. If Natali or the other defenders make a mistake, Zapata is there to cover them.
He'll be BIG, trust me.
Rate : 9.5
2. Alessandro Rossina (Torino)
Nationality : Italian
Age :23
Position : Attacking Midfielder
------------------------
It's not like i descovered him or anything, since all Italy talks about this guy as the next big thing of Italian football - the successor of Del Piero and Totti.
Incredibille ball control, simply incredibille. And he runs, runs, runs. Only Gattuso runs more than this guy.
He's number 10 of Italian u-21 team and number 10 in Torino also.
Great vision, and the most important thing is not only he's an assist man but he also scores a lot ( Leads the scorers and assists list in Torino)
But he's kinda stubborn and sometimes he's trying to do everything by himself. If he improves this, then he'll be perfect
Rate: 9
-----------------
Now, it will be good if you all write here whenever you see someone young and extra talented.
_MaJi_tz
28-01-2007, 08:53
tony,zapata is amazing I have read that milan want him.Bealive me I didnt know nothing abaut his age and I think he is older but when i read y post and he is only 20 wooooow forget all defenders just bring zapata mr.berlu
It's noticeable how Italy produces more late developers than elsewhere, especially with regard to strikers (Inzaghi, Toni etc).
Inzaghi was not a late developer ;) In fact he had his best scoring day long ago. Vieri on the other hand could be added, he didn't come close to 20 goals before he moved to Spain. Oddo.
________________________
From what I heard and seen I would mention these Italians:
Michele Canini, Cagliari. Probably the best Italian defender talent, played a lot last year, but got a nasty injury this summer in the u-21 championship. I seen him and think he is class, but it is hard to determine how bad the injury been for his progress.
Andrea Russotto, Treviso. Seen as many Italians as the most talented youngster around. Is said to have great technical abilities and can be used both in midfield and attack. He is only still in Treviso because he refused to sign up with Moggi juniors agency...
I don't think Pozzi will turn out the way we wanted, he hardly starts any games for Empoli. In some kind of irony the former young striker we bought (and sold) Luca Saudati is the one starting and scoring for them.
I can't understand the Pozzi Hatred. The guy is Great
I can't understand the Pozzi Hatred. The guy is Great
Who hates him?
Thanks Kris for your contribution here !
-------------------
Italy Under-21 boss Pierluigi Casiraghi has named his squad for next week’s friendly with Belgium.
Goalkeepers: Curci (Roma), Viviano (Brescia)
Defenders: Coda (Udinese), Criscito (Genoa), Mantovani (Chievo), Marzoratti (Empoli), Motta (Udinese), Pisano (Cagliari), Potenza (Fiorentina)
Midfielders: De Martino (Udinese), Lazzari (Piacenza), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Nocerino (Piacenza), Padoin (Vicenza), Rosina (Torino)
Strikers: Lupoli (Derby County), Palladino (Juventus), Pazzini (Fiorentina), Pellè (Cesena), Rossi (Parma)
-----------------------------------------------
Some well known names we have here.
Some of them are allready owned by the big clubs ( Criscito, Nocerino and Palladino by Juve , Lupoli by Arsenal, Rossi by Man Utd , Curci by Roma, Marzoratti by Milan , Potenza, Montolivo and Pazzini by Fiorentina , noone by Inter :) ) .
Rosina is the leader of this team and few others are also familiar from serie A, like Pisano, Motta and Coda.
I am pretty sure Potenza was a Inter primavera, don't know if they sold him or loaned him out though.
And again....old topic activated.
Few words for some young players (23 or younger) who play in serie A and who had a promising half season.
PART I
Robert Acquafresca (Cagliari) - co-owned by Inter and Cagliari , 20 years old, Striker
I'm not a huge fan of him but the kid is indeed a promising striker. Scores a lot for the Italian u21 ( 7 matches 5 goals) and lately he started scoring for Cagliari ( he scored one goal to Milan. I think it was a header after he outjumped your Cb's).
Typical striker, very good finishing and his pace on the ball is amazing.
My rating : 6/10
Alessandro Matri (Cagliari) , co-owned by Cagliari and Milan, 23 years old, striker
Another striker who came through Milan's youth system and who is Cagliari's top scorer. Started slow but played some top footie lately.
My rating :5/10
Juan Manuel Vargas (Catania) , 24 years old, left back/midfielder
Mentioned in winter mercato's thread, According to many he is the best left back in serie A at the moment. Pace, technique, passion, good crosses, excellent left foot. He's having a great season so far and is rightfully being compared to Roberto Carlos and getting all the interest from top clubs
My rating : 8/10
Lino Marzoratti (Empoli) , on loan from Milan, 21 years old, right fullback
Well know name in these forums. He's having a solid season so far, even though he isn't always a starter.
My rating :5/10
Andrea Raggi (Empoli) , 23 years old, defender
The baldy is having a great season. Very strong and pacy defender, ex azzuri u21 player. Even though only 23 he seems very experienced and confident. Played a great match against Milan.
My rating : 6/10
Claudio Marchisio (Empoli) , on loan from Juventus, 22 years old, central midfielder
Marchisio was a regular for Juve in serie B and was loaned out to Empoli to get more serie A experience. And he's taking this chance and playing really good football. Juve want to take him back from loan in January because Marchisio is indeed playing like an experienced footballer. One of the best players in u21 and part of the Cigarini-Marchisio duo from azzurini's midfield.
Good ball control but still more of a DMC than an AMC.
My rating : 6/10
Sebastian Giovinco (Empoli) , on loan from Juventus, 21 years old, attacking midfielder
I'm being biased, i know, but Seba is the best thing that happened to Italian football after Baggio, Del Piero, Pirlo and Totti. Luigi Cagni was shamelessly keeping him on the bench but the moment Malesani took Empoli, Giovinco became a regular and the results are obvious. They've beaten Juve, destroyed Cagliari, drew 2:2 away to Udinese and aren't defeated since then.
Amazing technique, pace, and Zidane-like vision. Scores and assists a lot. The best player and leader of Italian u21.
My ratings (biased again :) ) : 10/10
Nicola Pozzi (Empoli) co-owned by Empoli and Milan, 21 years old, striker
Another one who started slow but exploded the moment Malesani took over and put Giovinco to play behind him.
Pozzi scored 5 goals in last 3 matches and he has shown his class and how usefull he can be with a creative player behind him. He scores with every part of his body but he's especially good in the air.
My ratings: 7/10
Alessandro Potenza (Fiorentina) , 23 years old, centre back , can play RB
Not someone who had great half season because he was injured after 8 matches. But he's a great potential and a regular (almost irreplaceable) in Fiorentina's starting XI.
Very versatile and can play everywhere in defense.
My ratings: 7/10
Zdravko Kuzmanovic (Fiorentina) , 20 years old , Midfielder, centre/right
Although only 20 yo, Kuzmanovic is a regular in Serbian national team and one of the most regular players in Fiorentina's midfield. He had a very good half season. He's very tall and ellegant midfielder. Prandelli described him as one of the mosr intelligent players in the league.
My ratings :6/10
Riccardo Montolivo (Fiorentina) , 23 years old, centre midfielder
Well known, no need to talk about him :)
My ratings: 8/10
Pablo Osvaldo (Fiorentina) , 22 years old, forward
He didn't get many chances but he took the ones he got perfectly scoring goals almost everytime he plays. Argentinian with Italian passport and he already played for Italian u21.
My ratings: 6/10
Giampaolo Pazzini (Fiorentina) , 23 years old, striker
Another well known name. Powerful centre-forward who's already famous in Italy and Europe.
My ratings: 7/10
PART II
Antonio Luis Jiménez (Inter), on loan from Ternana, 23 years old, midfielder, right winger
The young Chilean took his chance in Inter given by many injuries of Inter's midfielders and he's been impressive ever since.
He's the captain of Chilean national team and in his last matches for Inter he proved that he's ready to play at top level.
My ratings: 8/10
Pélé (Inter) , 20 years old, defensive midfielder
He played only on 6 matches and only once as a starter but he fits well in Inter's team. Big potential and playing alongside Inter's stars will only help him develop.
My ratings: 5/10
Giorgio Chiellini (Juventus) , 23 years old, Centre back / left back
Perhaps the most promising young Italian defender. Leader of Juve's defense. Already experienced and Italian NT player
My ratings: 9/10
Antonio Nocerino (Juventus) , 22 years old, defensive midfielder/right midfielder
Considering Juve's bad defense and Tiago's bad form and attacking characteristics, Ranieri was forced to play with two highly defensive midfielders in the team. That's how Nocerino got his chance and he grabbed it with both hands.
He's been one of the best players in Juve for sure. Not the best ball control and passes but the hard work makes him one of the best DMC's in Italian football at the moment. Gattuso-like player, but with slightly better tecnique and a lot less experienced than Rinno.
My ratings: 7/10
Lorenzo De Silvestri (Lazio), 19 years old, right back
One of the most promising youngsters in Italian football.
Praised for his offensive style and high pace.
Even though only 19 he took the RB position from the 10 years older Scaloni and he's been impressive ever since.
My ratings: 7/10
Aleksandar Kolarov (Lazio) , 22 years old , left back
The Serbian Roberto Carlos. The man has has a canon in his left foot.
He impressed at the u21 EURO where he made it to the team of the tournament and is slowly but surely taking his place in Lazio's starting XI
My ratings: 6/10
Massimo Loviso (Livorno), 23 years old, centre midfielder
Imo, Livorno's best player so far this season. He's their leader in midfield and he even scores occasionally, scoring goals to Juve and Inter so far in the season. He missed half the matches due to an injury but impressed whenever he was given playing time.
My ratings: 5/10
György Garics (Napoli) , 23 years old, centre back
Speed and unusual technique for a defender are the main characteristics of this Hungarian born Austrian.
Even though very young he's very mature defender and plays like he has 10 years more experience than he has in reality.
My ratings: 6/10
Walter Gargano (Napoli) , 23 years old, centre midfielder
The most regular player in Napoli so far. Something between Gattuso and Pirlo. Ball winner who knows what to do with the ball after he'll win it. Intelligent player who intercepts a lot of passes. Very fast also.
His wages are 200 000 eur per year and the Uruguayan deserves 10 times more. I really like him and i'd like him to play for my team.
My ratings: 8/10
Marek Hamsik (Napoli) , 20 years old, centre midfielder
Like watching young Pavel Nedved (who is his idol, btw) all over again. My favorite youngster in serie A, the Slovak Marek Hamsik.
Modern type midfielder. Can't stop running, fights for every ball, great and accurate through passes, shoots from every position, powerful left and right foot. You get the full product with him.
My ratings: 9/10
Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli) , 22 years old, forward
Another amazing talent, the small Argie Lavezzi. Whoever saw this kid knows he's special.
Very Messi like, Lavezzi has great technique and is very fast. His dribblings and pace allow him to run through players.
He's the leading assist man in serie A.
He can play as trequartista, support striker, prima punta. Very dinamic forward who's using both feet perfectly.
My ratings: 8/10
Edison Cavani (Palermo) , 20 years old, striker
"Zlatan Ibrahimovic from Uruguay" is how some journalists like to call him. Very powerful centre forward with very good technique. We talked a lot about him in the past so no need to repeat myself
My ratings: 7/10
Luca Cigarini (Parma) , 21 years old, centre-midfielder
Very Pirloesque player. Not the best one in the defensive phase of the game but his long balls are pure magic. Un regista di centrocampo, very good technique and vision. One of the brightest talents in Italy for sure
My ratings: 8/10
Daniele Dessena (Parma) , 20 years old, centre midfielder
Impressive with the u21 team but not as impressive at Parma. I didn't see a lot of him this season and that's why i won't rate him but coaches like him and is said to have great potential.
Alberto Aquilani (Roma), , 23 years old, midfielder
Another famous name and no need to talk about him
My ratings: 9/10
Leandro Grimi (Siena) , on loan from Milan, 22 years old , left back
Solid displays from Grimi so far. Honestly, i don't think he's something special but he's very young and with the right attitude and hard work he can be very useful for the future
My ratings: 5/10
Paolo De Ceglie (Siena) , on loan from Juventus, 21 years old, attacking left back
u21 regular, De Ceglie impressed in Siena. Attacking minded defender whose main quality are the perfect crosses he makes. Number one favorite for the left back position in Juve from next year.
My ratings: 7/10
Paolo Hernan Dellafiore (Torino) , on loan to Torino, co-owned by Palermo and Inter, 22 years old, right back / centre-back
The Argentine born Italian u21 national. Had a very good half season in Torino. I watched him only once this season so i won't give him any ratings.
Alessandro Rosina (Torino) , 23 years old, attacking midfielder
Another well known name. We talked about him far too many times.
My ratings: 9.5/10
Cristian Zapata (Udinese) , 21 years old, centre back
The hottest talent in serie A if we talk about defenders. Leader of Udinese's defense and absolutely irreplaceable. Tall, tough, intelligent. Great player
My ratings: 8.5/10
Gokhan Inler (Udinese) , 23 years old, defensive midfielder
Another one who is a regular in Udinese and contributed a lot to Udinese's dream start of the season. The Suiss international with Turkish origin was given a chance after Pinzi's injury and he has established himself in the first team.
My ratings: 6/10
kastriot
06-01-2008, 14:02
Good work Tony, thnx
hany.Egypt
06-01-2008, 17:05
Alberto Aquilani (Roma), , 23 years old, midfielder
Another famous name and no need to talk about him
My ratings: 9/10
My favourite but unfortunately injury prone.
Lino Marzoratti (Empoli) , on loan from Milan, 21 years old, right fullback
Well know name in these forums. He's having a solid season so far, even though he isn't always a starter.
My rating :5/10
He really is a central defender and have played as that both for Empoli and the U-21.
Giovanni
06-01-2008, 18:00
congratulation tony for this very interesting thread...good posts are never old
I'd add two names : Criscito (now coming back to Genoa on loan from Juve) and Paloschi
congratulation tony for this very interesting thread...good posts are never old
I'd add two names : Criscito (now coming back to Genoa on loan from Juve) and Paloschi
Thanx
I didn't write about Criscito because he's been awful with Juve in this half season. He was given many chances and he failed badly everytime Juve were against an attacking team. That's the reason he's been loaned out . But Buffon, Casiraghi and Ranieri all say Criscito is the next big thing so it may be the huge pressure and his tender age that influenced his performances.
I didn't write about Paloschi and other Milan players (except the ones on loan) because you already have them and you don't have to go shopping to get them :)
I didn't write about Paloschi and other Milan players (except the ones on loan) because you already have them and you don't have to go shopping to get them :)
Äah you are so sweet :grinser: Thank you Tony for your really nice post.
If Brasileo (or something like that) could also post the similar thing from Brasil like you did, it would be awesome!
hany.Egypt
07-01-2008, 06:31
Antonio Luis Jiménez (Inter), on loan from Ternana, 23 years old, midfielder, right winger
The young Chilean took his chance in Inter given by many injuries of Inter's midfielders and he's been impressive ever since.
He's the captain of Chilean national team and in his last matches for Inter he proved that he's ready to play at top level.
My ratings: 8/10
So he is not owned by Inter, why dont Berlu try to sign him he, he is going to cost alot, no doubt about that, but he deserves.
Kaka1899
09-01-2008, 06:11
as well Giovinco scored a cracking goal against Roma to boot
GilAttack [11]
10-01-2008, 23:49
For a second I thought I was in the FM web site :v46: :v46:
Brazil and Argentina players are the most talented, they have quality + quantity. All around the world. Italy has very limited players....yeah, they won the WC, so what? I dont think they were the best team in the tournament.
As someone previously said, its about cost but talent is also at the top of the list.
Well, for a team to win 4 world cups and play 7 times in the final and for a u21 team that won the EURO 5 times in last 9 championships, there must be talent around and it must be a talent produced year after year.
No-one doubts the huge quality of South Americans but with the non-EU rule around, Italian teams should look at Italian young players rather than Argie young players, wanted or not.
And they even have SA-like talents.
I doubt this guy is limited
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_6cTsuX-XY
ACMILAN1983
11-01-2008, 03:11
']For a second I thought I was in the FM web site :v46: :v46:
Brazil and Argentina players are the most talented, they have quality + quantity. All around the world. Italy has very limited players....yeah, they won the WC, so what? I dont think they were the best team in the tournament.
As someone previously said, its about cost but talent is also at the top of the list.
Are you kidding me? Yes Brazil and Argentina have some incredibly gifted players, but to say Italy has limited players is ridiculous. Firstly, Italian players are developed differently to South Americans, where technical skills are paramount, whilst in Italy, tactical discipline is key.
Out of young players are Italians limited? Giovinco as Tony said above looks pretty good to me, as do Barzagli, Di Gennaro, Di Silvestri, Marzorati, Cigarini, Pazzini and Rosina just to name a few. Then there's the talent Italy has produced over the years like Baggio, Totti, Pirlo, Vialli, Baresi, Maldini, Buffon and many MANY more that I could probably go on for hours.
And Italy weren't the best team in the World cup? So who were better? Italy had the best keeper in the world, the best defence (which was weakened after Nesta's loss yet still a wall), an incredibly strong contender for the best midfield and up front a man who had just finished one of the greatest season's for a striker in Serie A history.
Graeme C
11-01-2008, 03:48
yeah italy were the best team in the world cup. Buffon, the defence, and Pirlo running the play was amazing!
Giovanni
11-01-2008, 05:24
']For a second I thought I was in the FM web site :v46: :v46:
Brazil and Argentina players are the most talented, they have quality + quantity. All around the world. Italy has very limited players....yeah, they won the WC, so what? I dont think they were the best team in the tournament.
As someone previously said, its about cost but talent is also at the top of the list.
You are the kind of person that watch football just considering hype, names, and games on paper. Nobody denies Brazil and Argentina's skills and quality, but no fulfilling your own (big) potential is probably one of the biggest flaws a top team can have.
Argentina was unlucky (as many other times Italy was) and Brazil was beaten up on the field, and their lost was fair, watching the game v France.
France probably was a better team than Italy, but we edged it. That's football. And if you watch the WC history many times the best team didn't win. Brazil was a better team than Italy 1982 , but nobody can question our win that time.
Nobody has divine right to become champion.
GilAttack [11]
12-01-2008, 00:54
Are you kidding me? Yes Brazil and Argentina have some incredibly gifted players, but to say Italy has limited players is ridiculous. Firstly, Italian players are developed differently to South Americans, where technical skills are paramount, whilst in Italy, tactical discipline is key.
Out of young players are Italians limited? Giovinco as Tony said above looks pretty good to me, as do Barzagli, Di Gennaro, Di Silvestri, Marzorati, Cigarini, Pazzini and Rosina just to name a few. Then there's the talent Italy has produced over the years like Baggio, Totti, Pirlo, Vialli, Baresi, Maldini, Buffon and many MANY more that I could probably go on for hours.
And Italy weren't the best team in the World cup? So who were better? Italy had the best keeper in the world, the best defence (which was weakened after Nesta's loss yet still a wall), an incredibly strong contender for the best midfield and up front a man who had just finished one of the greatest season's for a striker in Serie A history.
Go on for hours, Argentina and Brazil would top any list of talented players you could come up with. Brazil could easily duplicate (or more) any list from Italian players. For example, Im sure many Italians believe Gattuso is a great football player. He would be an average player in South America. They laugh at him.
Italy won a boring World Cup, playing average or below average soccer and getting a big hand from referees like the match against Australia. But leaving results aside, I dont believe any soccer fan was impressed (at least not a biased Italian fan).
And if they can produce great players, with great discipline, why do they spend money buying so many foreigners? Top teams have 2 or 3 very good italian talents. No more. Out of 11 players, thats very few. Do you think the italian league would be attractive if it were 100% italian? Im sure the Argentinean and Brazilian league would be great, best in the world. On the other hand, I would have trouble coming up with 100% made in italy teams.
GilAttack [11]
12-01-2008, 01:00
You are the kind of person that watch football just considering hype, names, and games on paper. Nobody denies Brazil and Argentina's skills and quality, but no fulfilling your own (big) potential is probably one of the biggest flaws a top team can have.
Argentina was unlucky (as many other times Italy was) and Brazil was beaten up on the field, and their lost was fair, watching the game v France.
France probably was a better team than Italy, but we edged it. That's football. And if you watch the WC history many times the best team didn't win. Brazil was a better team than Italy 1982 , but nobody can question our win that time.
Nobody has divine right to become champion.
Brazil looked like they could care less on the field, they were one of the worst teams in the tournament. But Italy wasnt a joy to watch either. They even needed a gift to beat Australia, and we arent talking Rugby.
And Im comparing talents, players and not teams. If you want to compare teams, you can bring facts and there would be no discussion. This team won 8 titles, the other one 6. I guess the first one is best.
But when talking players there isnt such thing, and here is when you can discuss about football. I wouldnt hesitate to say that Brazil and Argentina have much better talent than Italy and it isnt even close. But then again, its my opinion.
Giovanni
12-01-2008, 04:01
'] Go on for hours, Argentina and Brazil would top any list of talented players you could come up with. Brazil could easily duplicate (or more) any list from Italian players. For example, Im sure many Italians believe Gattuso is a great football player. He would be an average player in South America. They laugh at him.
Italy won a boring World Cup, playing average or below average soccer and getting a big hand from referees like the match against Australia. But leaving results aside, I dont believe any soccer fan was impressed (at least not a biased Italian fan).
And if they can produce great players, with great discipline, why do they spend money buying so many foreigners? Top teams have 2 or 3 very good italian talents. No more. Out of 11 players, thats very few. Do you think the italian league would be attractive if it were 100% italian? Im sure the Argentinean and Brazilian league would be great, best in the world. On the other hand, I would have trouble coming up with 100% made in italy teams.
Well, at least, despite not having those players YOU consider stars, we still managed to overachieve in our history and win more than many of your supposed dream teams.
Keep on living on fantasy. We care about reality, instead. And we care about how to win in the best way possible with the resources we have. This is an intelligent way to approach things in life.
Those like you who live in the world of fantasy and potential on paper, instead, will never achieve anything. Gattuso, despite not being the most talented player, has won more than many others That's what you call a natural born winner.
A suggestion: Italian players can teach a thing or two about having BALLS. Take note.
ACMILAN1983
12-01-2008, 08:54
']Go on for hours, Argentina and Brazil would top any list of talented players you could come up with. Brazil could easily duplicate (or more) any list from Italian players. For example, Im sure many Italians believe Gattuso is a great football player. He would be an average player in South America. They laugh at him.
Italy won a boring World Cup, playing average or below average soccer and getting a big hand from referees like the match against Australia. But leaving results aside, I dont believe any soccer fan was impressed (at least not a biased Italian fan).
And if they can produce great players, with great discipline, why do they spend money buying so many foreigners? Top teams have 2 or 3 very good italian talents. No more. Out of 11 players, thats very few. Do you think the italian league would be attractive if it were 100% italian? Im sure the Argentinean and Brazilian league would be great, best in the world. On the other hand, I would have trouble coming up with 100% made in italy teams.
Again, Brazil and Argentines tend to produce technically gifted players, though Italy emphasizes the need for technical ability, it doesn't do so as much as South American nations, instead focusing on physique and the tactical game. Brazil and Argentina don't emphasize this as much, and in this regard Italy is better, even if at a technical level Brazil and Argentina are better.
Gattuso is a great player, and no one has ever praised his technical ability. In fact, he himself has admitted on numerous times he is not technically gifted, but that does not make him any less of a great player as his technical skills are not the key aspect of his game. Oh, and in WC '06 Brazil really could have used a player with his qualities.
WC '06 wasn't boring either, in fact there was little wrong with it. England flopped and as soon as they went out the English media suddenly thought that World Cup was rubbish. Brazil were a joke, tactically awful, their attitude was simply disgusting and they got what they deserved. Argentina on the other hand played great football but they were one dimensional, and their inability to adapt to the situation is what cost them going further.
Italy did have a very good team in 2006, and deserved to win the WC with some excellent football (which was a based on the modern Italian game). The Australia match didn't have the referee favouring Italy, nor was that Australian team in any shape or form a bad team, being coached by Gus Hiddink.
In case you hadn't noticed, pretty much every major league in Europe has a massive influx of quality from abroad. This if balanced will not prevent a nation developing it's own talent and shock horror, the most successful club in football over the last 5-6 years has a core foundation of Italian players (Milan with Pirlo, Gattuso, Nesta, Pippo, Ambro and Maldini).
GilAttack, i don't know why are we even having this discussion ?!
No-one ever doubted the quality of SA football. Traditionally the best players come from SA, especially if we're talking about the quantity of quality players.
The purpose of this thread was to tell that there are quality Italian young players AND quality young players that play in serie A, no matter where they come from (check my last post in the previous page, you'll see that more than half of the mentioned players aren't Italians).
And i also wanted to say and ask why do Italian teams rarely give chances to Italian quality youngsters and give more chances to average foreigners.
Of course Milan will chose Alexandre Pato over Pozzi or Napoli will chose Lavezzi over Matri but why did Inter chose Pele over Cigarini ? Why did Juve chose Almiron over Giovinco ? Why no-one bought Giuseppe Rossi from Manchester but he went to Villareal instead ?
Tony29 (or anyone else who saw the Juve match), how did Vargas play this evening?
Tony29 (or anyone else who saw the Juve match), how did Vargas play this evening?
Sorry, Jim_UK, I didn't watch the game but I found that name in this news (http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jan12o.html) . :D
Tony29 (or anyone else who saw the Juve match), how did Vargas play this evening?
He was my MOM, together with Mascara. Long time since i've seen such a powerful full back who has speed, tecnhique, powerful shot and very precise crosses.
But defensively he must improve. I'm not talking about pure defending, because he's solid in this department, but i'm talking about the space he leaves when going forward. He spents a lot of time in attack and it leeaves too much space for opponents MR.
Or maybe that was only the case yesterday because Juve played without a MR for big parts of the match (Juve had Nocerino there in the first half, and Nocerino is a DMC) and perhaps that's why Vargas was involved in attack so much.
Edit: Oh, and Juve fans who watched the match yesterday are crazy about Vargas. He's becomming the most popular left back in juventuz.com.
But that's partly because our LB Molinaro sucks and we'll do everything for a better LB :D
I think everyone is going mad for Vargas. If Milan could buy him & Lavezzi in the January market, we will have made 2 great purchases. I'd even go so far as to put Vargas straight into the line up as our first choice left-back.
They'd both be cheap too.
Giovanni
13-01-2008, 17:58
Vargas is close to Roma or Juve. Probably won't come to Milan.
I heard he was close to Roma, i just chose to ignore it and hope we might make a move for him. I can't see it happening either.
Giovanni
14-01-2008, 06:39
Well technically Zambrotta has to be considered either right or left back...when you say you get 2 in one :sun:
Zambrotta would have dual possibilities, but why not have the pair of them in our starting line up? It's not like they'd cost us alot of money, nor would they be inferior to either Jankulovski or Oddo.
I will write to Braida today and tell him what to do :D
ginoformaggino
14-01-2008, 08:48
I always like to read your posts, Tony, even if you are a son of a ... Moggi! :gun:
A new name, always thinking to Padova or Vicenza, could be Paonessa,
a very good prospect player.
I saw him last year and I have to say that all the "cats-eaters" (that's the way we (from Padova) call them, :5130: nice nick!) were enthusiastic by Gabriele plays because this guy recall them the first RobyBaggio.
Now is playing on loan at Avellino, but it's highly probable he is going to play with Naples, next year.
ot: Jorge Andres Barrios MARTINEZ is not a youngster,
but AC Milan is following him.
I always like to read your posts, Tony, even if you are a son of a ... Moggi! :gun:
A new name, always thinking to Padova or Vicenza, could be Paonessa,
a very good prospect player.
I saw him last year and I have to say that all the "cats-eaters" (that's the way we (from Padova) call them, :5130: nice nick!) were enthusiastic by Gabriele plays because this guy recall them the first RobyBaggio.
Now is playing on loan at Avellino, but it's highly probable he is going to play with Naples, next year.
ot: Jorge Andres Barrios MARTINEZ is not a youngster,
but AC Milan is following him.
Martinez from Brescia? Good defender apparently. ABout 28 now??
Martinez from Brescia? Good defender apparently. ABout 28 now??
I think it's Catania's Martinez.
Long-haired guy who's having a good season so far and is Catania's top scorer even though he's more of a midfielder than an attacker. I think he was the one who scored the goal to Milan in Milan-Catania 1:1
The guy is 24
I don't think he'll make it to play for a big club though. Milan has much better players to look at for an attacking midfielder position.
anyone see that list of youngsters in the Gazetta Dello Sport?
hany.Egypt
19-01-2008, 04:32
which list?
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