I need help with Computer Buying

[Christopher]

So I desperately need a new computer. I am looking into the Laptop/Notebook area. I have a few computer games that I like to play and would like to play more of so a graphics card is a must. I dunno anything about RAM or Memory or whatever so I need help with that stuff. I have looked in HP and heard bad things about them. I havent heard good things about Dell at all. Toshiba and Sony I have heard were good . . but really I have no idea! Those are all opinions. So I need some direction like I said my needs are Gaming, and Multimedia . . and of course the office suite. Mac's arnt an option for me as they are way too expensive. Oh one more thing I would prefer a widescreen 15" monitor for transportability . . I would get a docking station and external moniter later to supplement. So if anyone has any word of advice or suggestion please I am all ears as I am clueless as to what to do. Oh a Intel Core Duo 2 is a must I believe . . or so I have been told.

[Debs]

I know just about zilch about laptops except that they are more expensive.

A dual core? Isn't that 2 drives? I don't know, maybe for gaming. I can ask my one intern, maybe he can make a recommendation.

[zlatanov]

before buying a laptop, I'd strongly recommend visiting several websites with notebook reviews in them and reading a little more into it ... take you time and look around, unless you just have to buy withing the next day or two.
Two such sites that I do recommend are:
www.notebookforums.com (site seems to be down right now, looks like just a temporary issue, though) and www.notebookreview.com - I think you need to register for the forums, but it's not an issue really.
Over there you can read people's opinions on all sorts of notebooks, not just the mainstream Sony, HP, Toshiba laptops, and you will also find buying guides, benchmarks, detailed pictures and reviews as well as manuals telling you how to take your notebook apart, upgrade it and put it back together ... something I have done with my Asus many times now and it's a lot of fun :)

Go visit those forums and see what notebook catches your eye ... right now, off the top of my head, I would say that the one brand hard-core gamers go for is "Sager" (also known as Clevo in Thailand and the Far East) ... a brand you won't see in Best buy and the likes but you can buy from smaller but very reliable on-line vendors (that's how I bought my Asus laptop 2 years ago, which was an option I had never considered before I came upon those forums).

Here is what I posted in another, similar thread here on MM:
http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=380545&postcount=67

[Christopher]

Very nice. I will take a look at those sites for sure. I am not sure that gaming computer is exactly what I want as I do need to use it for Multimedia purposes .. I dunno how cross functional they are.

[zlatanov]

it really depends - some gaming machines are big, heavy, generate a lot of heat (a laptop's #1 enemy) and have very limited battery life, while others are very much like your mainstream desktop replacement laptop - still very fast/powerful but not as heavy and with battery life of 4+ hrs ... and they still have powerful graphic cards suitable for heavy gaming.
I recommended you to look around those forums because you will find out that there are many other options beyond the HPs, Dells and Sonys in the big electronics stores ... and in the end, when you come up with a decision, it will be a more "informed" one.

Lately I haven't been as regular on those forums as I was before, so I am not sure what the latest popular notebooks over there are but from what I remember the quality notebooks usually come from Asus, Sager/Clevo, Acer, MSI, Mitac, Compal (some of them not exactly well know, right :)) and they are indeed viable alternatives, and maybe even better, than notebooks from Sony, Tishiba, Dell, HP, etc.

Actrually, if you think that when you are buying a Sony, you are indeed buying a Sony, here is an interesting read (the part at the bottom) and it's true, this is how the computer business functions:
http://www.discountlaptops.com/index.php?section=catagory&include_type=ourbrands

[Jim_UK]

I dunno anything about RAM or Memory or whatever so I need help with that stuff ... Oh a Intel Core Duo 2 is a must I believe . . or so I have been told.

RAM and Memory are the same thing, the more you have the better it is for your laptop. It enables your computer to run faster and do more operations at once.

When you say you need it for multimedia purposes, what exactly do you mean? Do you just want it to play video, audio, dvd/cd's etc or do you need it for motion graphics or 3d modelling? If it's the first then 512mb RAM will be a good starting point, if you need it for the latter then you need at least 1GB RAM, preferably 2GB if you can afford it. Generally the higher the mhz speed the better, i believe right now the highest mhz speed is 633mhz, this is the speed the information travels through the memory ... or something like that.

Intel Core Duo 2 is the processor, the Duo part indicates that it has 2 cores which basically means it's 2 processors in one. Like wise Dual Dual core means 2 processors with 2 cores each ... which equals 4 cores altogether.

An easy way to work out what you need is to look at a decent game that's just been released and look at it's recommended requirements. Make a note of it and then you can use that as a base of what your laptop will need.

Some laptops are hit and miss, a friend of mine spent over £2000 on a Dell laptop (it was an amazing bit of kit) but it just kept going wrong. In the end he bought a Mac and i would advise you to do the same, they make the best most reliable laptops out there. They are expensive, but if you're a student you can get educational discount. Apple are notorious for expensive memory, so it's cheaper to buy the memory from somewhere like crucial (http://www.crucial.co.uk) and then get it fitted seperately.

Evesham make good machines, they're not too bad. But like Zlat said do as much research as you can and you'll probably be able to save yourself alot of hassle and money by shopping around.

P.S. Oh and for graphics cards, nvidia quadro fx cards are some of the best and a card with 256 mb RAM is usually ideal ... or you can splash the boat out on a card with 512 mb RAM, all depends on how much you have to spend.

[zlatanov]

regarding RAM, I would recommend treating 1GB as a minimum. 512mb would be enough to run WinXP - this may very well NOT be the case with the upcoming Vista - and play some music, videos, browse the web, some spreadsheets here and there, etc.

If, however, one wnats to have a laptop that's more than a web-capable organizer, and when you invest 1500 or so chances are you do, 1 GB is a bare minimum these days since you will probably wanna do some heavy processing at times and have multiple programs open all at once.

I am not a gamer but many people are these days and even basic to average gaming requires at least 1GB RAM as this is probably the most important component after the Graphics card, even ore important than the cpu or HD speed ... as mentioned, I am not a gamer and I still have 2gb RAM in my laptop and I have to say that it's running much more carefree and smoothly than when I had just 1GB.

Also, if you decide to go with 1GB RAM, make sure that you get the RAM in 1 stick of 1GB each - as opposed to 2 sticks X 512MB eachk, which is what you will be offered in most big electronics stores.
The thing is that laptops come with, usually, 2 slots for RAM and if you get 1 stick of 1gb RAM, you will have left 1 slot full while the other will be empty and ready for a future upgrade, otherwise, if both slots are full and you still need to increase the total RAM in your laptop, you will end up with an extra RAM chip that you will probably never need.

P.S. I agree with jim that a Mac laptop (powerbook) would be a great choice for laptop as long as you are OK with using MacOS. I personally am not used to it and that was one of the main reasons why I didn't go with a Mac ... the other was that they were and still are more expensive (not just the laptop as a whole but also any additional components/upgrades you might nee later) ... still, they are very slick looking and very reliable notebooks :)

[Christopher]

Thanks guys . . I am not a huge gamer but do like to play every once in a while (Games like Shogun Total War, WW II flight SIM, Comand and Conquer, RainBow Six and Knight of the Old Republic). Interms of the mutlimedia I plan on using Photoshop, Illustrator and maybe flash. It would be great to keep Photoshop and Illustrator open at the same time. I am reading through what you guys have said and am trying to process all the information lol

[Jim_UK]

I have a 7 year old pc with 256 mb RAM and a 1ghz processor and i can run photoshop and illustrator at the same time .... just :D

You should never have a problem of running illustrator or Flash as the majority of the time what you're creating is vector based and therefore a low file size, it's what you bring into those packages that can cause the problems (pictures, audio, etc).

For those needs i think 1gb RAM should be more than adequate, though if you can afford 2gb of RAM then i would get that so you don't have to worry about upgrading in the future.

[Christopher]

I think I am gonna try and go with 2 gigs so that way I wont have to upgrade in the not so distant future.

[zlatanov]

I think I am gonna try and go with 2 gigs so that way I wont have to upgrade in the not so distant future.
if you can afford it, I think it's a good choice although going with 1GB would still be OK given your needs and would save you a good 100-150 US ... the important thing is to get a 1GB stick so that you keep one of the two RAM slots empty and ready for upgrade if you need it.
One other thing though, RAM chips heat up during usage so having 2 RAM chips at once will generate more heat in your laptop than having 1 RAM chip only. So, just in case, I would recommend getting a laptop cooler - this the one I have and recommend:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834999413

It will keep your lappy cool and healthy in the long run because heat is the biggest enemy of all laptops given the limited air circulation inside the casing.

[Christopher]

Does anyone understand graphics cards . . I see that this XFX GEForce 7800 GTX is getting great reviews . . the thing is do I need something that powerful and expensive? Can I get that included in a notebook that I am customize from say Sony or HP?

[Jim_UK]

Naturally if you customise/build your own laptop on a sony/hp site, you'll only get the graphics cards they list. I don't know a great deal about graphics cards, all i know is that not all of them are compatible with laptops so you'll need to find that out first of all.

If it does work with laptops then you can configure a laptop without a graphics card or with the cheapest available option and then buy this other card seperately to install yourself. I would doubt Sony or HP will let you choose a card of your choice for your machine and if they did they'd no doubt charge you a fortune for that service.

I'm sure if you do some more research you will find a cheaper card that is almost as good as the one you listed.

[zlatanov]

I recommend going to those laptop discussion forums and reading a little bit about different cards and the notebooks they come in ... with reading, you will also be able to narrow down the cards that would fit your needs in the best possible way.

the card you are referring to, it's notebook version that is, is probably much more powerful - and thus generates more heat and consumes more power (shorter battery life) - than what you'll ever need given the description of what you intend to do on this laptop. This GPU (the 7800 GTX) is good for most if not all of the latest and most demanding games out there - at least that's my take as a non-gamer ;) - so chances are you will be way-overshooting your needs if you go for it.

Also, keep in mind that latest graphic cards available now for desktops are much more advanced (as a generation) and powerful (in terms of GPU and RAM speed and capacity) than the most powerful "notebook" graphic cards as it takes time to redesign graphic cards so that they can fit and be suitable for use in a laptop ... so, you shouldn't expect to find the very latest desktop graphic cards in notebooks just yet.

To put this more clearly, if say today one of the latest nVidia GPUs for desktop cards is 8000 series (say GeForce 8800 GTX), the latest you will find in laptop is graphics card from the 7000 series (say GeForce 7900 or 7950 GT/X), which is an older generation of Graphic cards, they are slower and cheaper as well.
Either way, again, I think even 7000 series will be overshooting your needs ... I guess you will be just fine even with a 5000 series card from nVidia, or to make it more future proof, something from the 6000 series ... I am saying this because even the latest laptops from Sager - these are boutique laptops designed with heavy gaming in mind - come with mostly either GeForce 7950 GTX or Quadro FX2500M (again from nVidia), depending on how you customize it.

That's why, I strongly recommend going to those forums and reading as much info as possible on these things so that you can make a better estimate about what card would best fit your needs, of course it would be a good thing to make sure that your choice is "future-proof" for the next 2-3 years at least.

It's important to have a good idea of what your needs are because that way you won't end up paying for features you will never use. Also, when it comes to graphics in laptops, more powerful cards generate more heat - there is limited air circulation in the casing - and this is detrimental to just about every single component in your laptop - motherboard, cpu, ram memory, hard drive, lcd screen, you name it. Also, the more heat a graphics card gives out, the more often the cooling fans inside tha laptop will come on and this makes the laptop noisier than it should be (noise differs from one laptop design to another, so this is also soemthing to keep in mind when you read the reviews - heat and noise issues !!!!!!!).

Furthermore, a more powerful graphics card will draw more battary power and your battary life will go down considerably ... many cards come with utilities that downclock the GPU and GRAM clocks depending on usage (or you can downclock it yourself) but this would again result in loss in battery life albeit not as much as it would without downclocking.

[zlatanov]

Can I get that included in a notebook that I am customize from say Sony or HP?
basically what Jim said.
if you go to their websites, you will be able to see what graphic cards they offer as options for customization, if any. Chances are, they come with only one graphics card as a standard equipment and you don't have a choice but to be sure, you'll have to check that.

with the latest generation of Graphic cards in laptops - PCI-E - it became possible to upgrade them.
In the previous generation of graphic cards interface, this was not possible in laptops because the card was soldered to the motherbord and an upgrade ran the risk to fatally damage the motherboard and thus ruin the whole laptop. This is no longer the case with PCI-eXpress interface.

Some online vendors - I bought my laptop from a place like that - offer you several graphic card options and they charge you just about as much as the card itself would cost you if you were to buy it ... but I am not sure whether you will be comfortable with going with a smaller vendor and not one of the big companies like HP, Dell, Sony, etc.

[Christopher]

which site did you buy yours from? My co-worker has an Acer Ferrari seems like a good computer, I am checking those out.

[zlatanov]

The Acer Ferrari is indeed a nice laptop ... I am not much into the "screaming" red color but as a machine, you won't find many better out there.

I bought my Asus from www.discountlaptops.com but recently they seem to have cut down on their Asus-based products. Still, you can have a look at their site and check out the laptops they offer.

Other excellet and very reliable vendors I would recommend are:
www.powernotebooks.com (mainly Asus, Compal, and Sager/Clevo products)
www.proportable.com (great sellection of Asus products)
www.clubit.com (various brands, just like newegg.com)
www.1toppc.com (great choice of Asus laptops)
www.rjtech.com (Asus, Compal, Clevo/Sager, and MSI products)

Also definitely check out www.newegg.com - great online retailer for computers and electronics and I buy all my computer-relayed stuff from them - they have a nice sellection of Asus, Acer, Sony, HP, Lenovo/IBM, Fujitsu and other laptops. And they also have product reviews that are pretty helpful.

Here is a link to a list of online resellers on www.notebookforums.com - I searched for Asus vendors specifically but you can do the same for any other brand like Acer, MSI, Sager, etc.:
http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=94364&highlight=asus+vendors (I think you need to be registered and logged in in order to see it)

I recommend that, time permitting, you read through the forums briskly and try to narrow down your options to say 3-4 laptops based on what cpu family you want (AMD, Intel), screen size, format, and resolution (15'', 15.4'', 17'', widescreen or not, W/UXGA, W/SXGA or W/XGA), size and weight of the laptop (lighter, more mobile laptops or something heavy that will spend most of the time on your desk), longer or shortet battery life, etc.

Once you've done that, start reading reviews for each of your 3-4 choices more carefully looking for heat, noise related issues, performance issues, screan/image quality and clarity, etc. After that go to one of the resellers and see what are your option regarding pricing, customization options, reliability of the online retailer based on what experience other people have had with that vendor ...
here is a site where you can check reviews and ratings for online stores:
www.resellerratings.com

The reason why I am mentioning these online vendors - and the reason why I myself bought my lappy from one of them - is because the laptops you can find there are anything but the mainstream stuff at BestBuy, CC, CompUSA, etc. Unless you live next to a boutique computer shop, buying on-line is the only way to get your hands on an Asus, Acer, MSI, Sager and such ... and IMO, these are better laptops than what the limited sellection at walk-in electronics retailers bring to their customers.
That doesn't mean that you have to follow my advice, however, as if you feel that a Sony or an HP or a DeLL is the laptop for you, then you just follow your gut ... I am just trying to show you some of the other options available out there, options that are unfamiliar to the average buyer.
No one's said that buying the best laptop for your needs is an easy thing to do ;) :sagrin:

P.S. just in case you wonder what laptop I went for a couple of years ago after some really extensive research, it's the Asus M6BNe ... a more contemporary version (although it's also older than the very latest) is the Asus Z70VA - has a newer chipset, CPU, RAM family but the rest is absolutely identical:
http://www.rjtech.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=A-Z70VA&Category_Code=ASUSN&Product_Count=3

[Christopher]

Product: : VGN-FE890
Product: : Wireless LAN (802.11a\b\g) and Bluetooth Technology
Product: : Microsoft Works 8.5 with Office 2007 "Home and Student" Trial Edition
Product: : Large Capacity Lithium-ion Battery (BPL2C)
Product: : NVIDIA GeForce Go 7600
Product: : None Movie Pack
Product: : Microsoft Works 8.5
Product: : Music Plus
Product: : No Engraving
Product: : 2 GB DDR-SDRAM (DDR2-667, 1 GBx2)
Product: : Norton Internet Security 2007 (Trial)
Product: : 4 Year Express Ship Service Plan for Notebooks
Product: : Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
Product: : 120 GB Hard Disk Drive
Product: : Photo Standard
Product: : Video Standard
Product: : Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T7200 (2GHz)
Product: : 15.4" WXGA TFT with XBRITE-HiColor Technology and MOTION EYE White Camera
Product: : DVD+-R Double Layer/DVD+-RW Drive
Product: : VGN-FE890


I am pretty excited I think I got a pretty good machine I had considered going up from the T7200 processor the T7400 which is 2.16 GHz but was told that for what i want to do it wouldn't make a difference and for the extra $200 bones I would be throwing down for it I would prefer that it make a difference. The only other thing is the Hard Disk Drive . . the one I put in there is 5400 rpm I had been looking for something around 7200 but Sony didn't have that option. Overall I think I did pretty well for myself.

[zlatanov]

hey congrats, looks like a great laptop and the specs are pretty nice too. :sagrin:

whoever gave you that advice about the CPU speed, say a big thank you to him ;) because he saved you 200 bucks.
the dif in speed, not only you wouldn't have needed it, but you wouldn't have even noticed it ... such negligible dif in CPu speed are nothing but marketing tricks people fall for as human perceptions are not capable of detecting the supposed increase in speed ... unless we want to, that is, so that we can comfort ourselves for not having dished out 200 bucks for absolutely nothing :).

It's a good choice for an HD. True, 7200 would have been a bit faster but I read that the latest 7200 HDs are a bit noisier than the previous generation, so a 5400 has it's pluses too, and with 120GB of space, you won't be sacrificing speed either ... unless you are one of those people, who think that 5-8 sec less of start-up time will change their lives for the better ;). Plus you can always upgrade if you want to.

I see you have gone for the 2GB RAM, probably a little overshooting your immediate needs but at least you'll be covered for the future ;).

One advice though, next thing on your shopping list should be a laptop cooler ... see it as an additional warranty to your laptop

[Christopher]

yes the laptop cooler is defintiely on my short list of things to get next along with an external hard drive . . investigating both. I looked that cooler you posted and am comparing it to others . . it seems that size is an issue for some people in their reviews of these things. I am going to wait to get the notebook to see where the fans are on it and try to get it to line up with the fans on the cooler . . . is that reasonable or does it not really matter? Also on the list is the external monitor . .

[zlatanov]

it's probably a good idea to get the laptop first and see where exactly are the air vents on the bottom and then choose a cooler.
There are two types of fan-based coolers - one, like the one I have and the majority of coolers out there, is where the fans simply blow onto the bottom of the laptop and thus cool it down. The other, however, has it's fans reversed so that they DRAW the hot air from the bottom of the laptop outwords.
I personally don't have any impressions on one design to be clearly better that the other ... to me it looks like it's mostly about how indiviual coolers perform, so pay attention to reviews.

As for the one I have, I would guess that peoplewho complain about the size have smaller laptops - say 12'' or 14'' screen size - because mine is a 15.4'' widescreen laptop - just like yours - andthe cooler is definitely SMALLER than the laptop itself (in terms of both width and length), so I really don't see how mych smaller a cooler SUITABLE for a 15.4'' laptop should/could be ... it's also pretty slim - by looking at it, it's less than 1/2'' thick, I think.

The good think about it is that you can vary the fan speed, it has 4 additional USBs at the back, which can be used even without the power supply that comes with the cooler, and a big plus for me is that it has "legs" on the back side that raise the back of your laptop - as opposed to it sitting flat on the table - and this gives you a better look at your keyboard and makes typing much easier.

At the highest fan speed it's a bit noisy but at the minimum setting it's almost inaudible. Most of the time, I use the minimum setting unless I am doing some heavy caclulations i.e. the full CPU speed is being utilized, then the full fan speed does come in handy :).

[Christopher]

Good review thanks for the info . . one thing I learned for sure while looking for a computer was how to research this stuff lol so it will be a good few days and a weekend before i make a purchase, but for gaming I think it is a good idea to pick up a cooler, I like the extra usb hubs yours has. Once again back to the websites . . also for external hard drives anyone have a reccomendation? or external monitors? around 20-22 inchers?

[zlatanov]

for external HD (3.5'' form factor as in desktops) I would recommend Seagate and WesternDigital's My Book series. I also like IoGear's ION series - well cooled and silent HD worth considering.
As for monitors, you'd have to see what budget you have set for it because there are just too many good monitors out there and they differ in price as well as perfomance.
The better known brands and better monitors are by Sony, Samsung, HP, NEC, ViewSonic and some less known ones like Acer, BenQ, Sceptre also make really good monitors.

No matter where you will decide to buy from, I suggest using www.newegg.com for reference as they have huge HD and LCD sellection and most importantly lots of customer reviews.