View Full Version : UCL SF 1st Leg: Manchester United vs. Milan
What can I say? Three semifinals in a row. It might be a bit early to start this but there will be so much buildup and anticipation to this game, I'm sure the thread will fill up pretty fast. Old Trafford has so many memories... let's add some more. We should be proud to have gotten this far considering the season we're having but may the quest for # 7 continue. Forza Milan.
Bosniaco
11-04-2007, 19:54
Honestly I don't expect us to pass Man U. They are a much younger squad and too quick for our squad. If we get Man U to play our game slow we may have a chance but otherwise we are out. As a Milan fan depp in my heart I hope we do knockout Man U but honestly I cant see it.
Manchester are faster and younger, that's true. But like some of us mentioned in the Bayern thread, we are not Roma and our experience will come into play. We will kill the game and they will not find that much space to run at us. We have pacy backs in Janku and Oddo and they will do a lot better then Pannuci and Casseti for example. I don't wanna go too much into depth into it as there is some time and other games untill then but this Milan team in the CL semifinal(Milan always performs best in CL expecially in later stages) will be the toughest test Manchester will face this year and we'll see how they'll cope with our midfield.
We should try to play a couple of slow and boring games. Man U is too young to handle the boredom and our experience. We can handle them. I am sure. :)
Also, for a young team, it would be to their advantage to play away game first. We have one less problem in that. :grinser:
Can I continue to be in the pessimistic camp? At Man U, it'll be nice to have a 1-1 draw but I think 1-2 lost is more likely.
Well we will be regarded as underdogs even by our own fans but Manchester's CL campaign hasn't been that impressive anyway apart from the game on Tuesday. Which by the way they did play great but they have to thank Roma's inexperience and choice to play the game the way they did.
Here is a little look on Manchester this season to remember how they've been doin.
So far Manchester has beaten Celtic 3-2 in which Saha scored from a penalty after they were trailing; Benfica 0-1; Kobenhavn 3-0; and Benfica 3-1. They lost from Celtic and Kobenhavn away both results 1-0 in the 4th and 5th matchday. So they were forced to beat Benfica in the last matchday to make it in the round of 16. Not impressive at all.
In the round of 16 they beat Lille 2 times by the score of 1-0....however the first game in France they won by a goal from free-kick while the wall was being set. The ref allowed it and there was a big despute around that goal. Then Lille was forced to go to England and win because of that goal and it was never going to be easy. Larsson score for Manchester in England and killed the tie. Again...not very impressive keeping in mind that the goal in France could have just as easily been dissallowed.
The quarter-final...you all saw what happened. Roma outplayed Manchester in Rome and the English were lucky they didn't concede 3 or 4 in Italy. Roma didn't finish their chances and they played a stupid game in England. Instead of sitting back after they conceded, they rushed to score when they had another 70 minutes to do so. Inexperience costed them and Manchester made a field day out of it. Again...not an impressive outing in Rome but they made up for it in England.
So not that impressive throughout and now because of one great game (or horrible by Roma for that matter) people all of a sudden fear that we won't get through this "great" Manchester team. I am not going to mention domestic form as domestic form expecially for English teams is hardly ever transfered into Europe because of the difference of style that they play on the island. Just look at Liverpool for that matter.....bad in England but seems to have found their way in Europe quite a bit in recent seasons.
My point is that.....knowing that this Milan team with basically the same players has made it to the semis 4 times in the last 5 years knows what it takes to be here. We have the experience (a big proof of that against Bayern) and we have been always solid in the CL. This is exactly why they should be fearing us. We are the team with 2 finals 2 semifinals and 1 quarter final in the last 5 years and not them. Yes they might have momentum after thrashing Roma, but let's be honest here. If Manchester and Roma played again tomorow, the score will NOT be 7-1 and there is a big question if Manchester would even win again. Those 7 goal games happen once in a blue moon and I'm sure Roma learned their lesson as we have in the past with Deportivo and Liverpool.
We can definatly take this Manchester team on just like last time.
Forza Milan....Forever!
Blacktop
11-04-2007, 23:47
We should close this thread right now because nothing will be able to top that post.
Well done.
People are scared of pacey Ronaldo? Even 36 years old cafu has no problems taking the ball from his feets. :devf:
Rooney? He just seem to be getting worse as the day passes by.
Let's go back to the previous time when we met them. Man U squad has remained largely unchanged while its the same with ours. I am quite confident of the match with Man U, just like how confident i was yesterday about Milan beating bayern. You guys just need some faith. :w221:
jmacpherson
12-04-2007, 07:12
As I've stated before, if the whole team comes to the party and gives 100% the whole 90min, then we can beat anyone on the night.
However lets not get carried away and right off Manu, lets give them the respect they deserve.
They did knock out Roma, the same team that has beaten us in every match this season except for 1.
With ten men they scored an important away goal against Roma in Rome. How quickly we forget that we let Bayern score 2 away goals in our own backyard.
IMHO Manu are a much better team than Bayern.
Have a look at the this season stats on BBC site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/club_stats/default.stm
They've scored 108 goals in 50 games in all competitions this season, thats average of just over 2 goals a game. They've also only conceeded 40, which is an average of 0.8
They've had 18 different scorers this season in all comps, meaning the whole team is contributing.
They appear to have no problems in the scoring department and their defence is pretty solid too.
We are coming up against a team who has skill,speed,strength and who knows how to score.
Make no mistake, these two matches will be the hardest matches we play this season imho. Milan will have to play like never before to get through this, in both matches. The 2-legs will be harder than the final imho.
I'm backing Milan all the way, however I am giving Manu the respect they deserve. I just hope that the team do as well.
Pireloke
12-04-2007, 14:22
Seeing Man Utd butchering Roma was impressive, and when I saw Totti's face I even couldn't help myself but smile. Thinking that could happen to us now made the smile fade away again.
I was impressed we could beat Bayern in their own Arena, but honestly when I was pessimistic about them after the 2-2 at home, I am a lot more pessimistic about Man Utd...
If by any other miracle we make it past this turn, then Sheva will be waiting in the final, and I am utterly convinced we will be beaten by his goals, a thought that hurt more than Istanbul, and I thought that Istanbul was the pinnacle of pain. I don't want to suffer anymore, so let it end here.
zlatanov
12-04-2007, 14:54
Seeing Man Utd butchering Roma was impressive, and when I saw Totti's face I even couldn't help myself but smile. Thinking that could happen to us now made the smile fade away again.
I was impressed we could beat Bayern in their own Arena, but honestly when I was pessimistic about them after the 2-2 at home, I am a lot more pessimistic about Man Utd...
If by any other miracle we make it past this turn, then Sheva will be waiting in the final, and I am utterly convinced we will be beaten by his goals, a thought that hurt more than Istanbul, and I thought that Istanbul was the pinnacle of pain. I don't want to suffer anymore, so let it end here.
why do I have the feeling that you spend 23/7 of your life wondering what could possibly go wrong and the rest 1/7 what could make things even worse?!
Lighten up man, show some belief and respect for your team by opening a cold beer and seeing it's bottom for the win yesterday :D
No one is saying that ManU will be easy but at this level who is after all ... and bayern is not such a bad team as you might think, it's just that we made them look bad ... very much like an inexperienced and "headless" Roma made ManU look much better than they really are, this last one is only in our advantage though ;)
King tiger
12-04-2007, 14:55
all i have to say is: FORZAAAAA MILAN
Stezagud
12-04-2007, 15:14
If you can get the game on Tv i recommend switching to Spurs - Sevilla, Spurs needed 4 to come back and just got 2 in a minute so the last 20 minutes should be all out attack :D
Stezagud
12-04-2007, 15:27
No one is saying that ManU will be easy but at this level who is after all ... and bayern is not such a bad team as you might think, it's just that we made them look bad ... very much like an inexperienced and "headless" Roma made ManU look much better than they really are, this last one is only in our advantage though
true, the way some people are talking here its like they think Utd get 7 goals every week :eek: ;)
The reality is simple, Roma played straight into Utds hands and gave Utds attackers room to run at them, Milan already showed a few years ago that the deep 4-5-1 can negate this. Its the same tactics that Arsenal played vs Utd twice this season and both games Arsenal won because for all their flair havent the experience yet to know when to attack and defend. if Milan get the first goal in the tie they will be in control of the tie and 90% certain to go through.
Chelsea and Liverpool are different propositions entirely though. Neither of those sides mind boring their fans to tears if it measn securing the result, Utds players simply do not know how to play for a draw because its not in the nature of the club. If Milan do make the final i agree with Pireloke, it will most likely be Chelsea who have far more tactical nous than Utd do if a lot less flair.
I also made a prediction that Sheva will be the one to score the winner in the CL final a month or 2 ago and whoever makes the final i will be praying that doesnt come true now :(
am i alowed to post the rooney ronaldo picture, where ronaldo is on his knees?
it could be considered offensive, but it is quite funny...
if you wanna see it, just type "rooney ronaldo" in google image search.
Hasan Rossonero
12-04-2007, 15:35
true, the way some people are talking here its like they think Utd get 7 goals every week :eek: ;)
The reality is simple, Roma played straight into Utds hands and gave Utds attackers room to run at them, Milan already showed a few years ago that the deep 4-5-1 can negate this. Its the same tactics that Arsenal played vs Utd twice this season and both games Arsenal won because for all their flair havent the experience yet to know when to attack and defend. if Milan get the first goal in the tie they will be in control of the tie and 90% certain to go through.
Chelsea and Liverpool are different propositions entirely though. Neither of those sides mind boring their fans to tears if it measn securing the result, Utds players simply do not know how to play for a draw because its not in the nature of the club. If Milan do make the final i agree with Pireloke, it will most likely be Chelsea who have far more tactical nous than Utd do if a lot less flair.
I also made a prediction that Sheva will be the one to score the winner in the CL final a month or 2 ago and whoever makes the final i will be praying that doesnt come true now :(
Whom will you support?
Stezagud
12-04-2007, 15:38
Im a Utd fan first and foremost so it'll have to be them :cool:
zlatanov
12-04-2007, 15:47
true, the way some people are talking here its like they think Utd get 7 goals every week :eek: ;)
The reality is simple, Roma played straight into Utds hands and gave Utds attackers room to run at them, Milan already showed a few years ago that the deep 4-5-1 can negate this. Its the same tactics that Arsenal played vs Utd twice this season and both games Arsenal won because for all their flair havent the experience yet to know when to attack and defend. if Milan get the first goal in the tie they will be in control of the tie and 90% certain to go through.
Chelsea and Liverpool are different propositions entirely though. Neither of those sides mind boring their fans to tears if it measn securing the result, Utds players simply do not know how to play for a draw because its not in the nature of the club. If Milan do make the final i agree with Pireloke, it will most likely be Chelsea who have far more tactical nous than Utd do if a lot less flair.
I also made a prediction that Sheva will be the one to score the winner in the CL final a month or 2 ago and whoever makes the final i will be praying that doesnt come true now :(
what you said regarding the difs between Pool and Chelski on one side and ManU on the other is true ... but the thing is that Milan is a side with two faces - one with a big smile on it when we play football with flair and technique and lots of nice passing and combos, while the other has determination written all over it when we show our other side and grind out and suffer patiently thru a game waiting for that one moment to make the decisive blow (like the game in Munchen, for instance).
All in all, Milan can be a very technical side but also a very physical and tactical one too ... something manU aren't, at least not at this level ... and I think a similar thing could be said for Chelski, with the opposite polarity though as they are predominantly a physical/tactical side.
Maybe Pool at times are capable of turning on the flair and technique too but their approach is again predominantly tactical and physical.
The reason why I am pointing this out is that when a team is one-dimensional in it's approach to the game, it cannot re-adjust itself during a game and at this level of football this could be crucial and make them easy pray for the opponent.
Also, often tactical and physical sides like CHelski and Pool find it difficult to cope/neutralize more technical opponents, while teams like manU and Roma, which rely on wing play above all (read space and speed and technique) could fall into a trap of a more tactical side and find themselves "suffocated" and neutralized by a 4-5-1 system, for instance.
Stezagud
12-04-2007, 16:26
All in all, Milan can be a very technical side but also a very physical and tactical one too ... something manU aren't, at least not at this level ... and I think a similar thing could be said for Chelski, with the opposite polarity though as they are predominantly a physical/tactical side.
Utd can be a smart and physical side but they need all players fit, the same with Chelsea. The Utd Roma faced only had Rio of the usual first choice defence for the away leg and it showed, Brown and O Shea are limited and struggle to step up for Europe. Neville and Vidic in their places give Utd a far stronger defence and the option of Evra or Heinze on the left depending on opposition adds a great flexibility to that too.
In midfield too Utd can pass as well as anyone through Scholes and Carrick, but against Roma (and domestically recently) there has only been Rooney fit to play upfront and that has cut out a lot of options. Saha adds a greater physical threat and is more of a true forward but he spends 90% of his career on the treatment table :( Smith though is nearing fitness now and his presence up front gave Roma a lot of indirect problems. Basically if Utd get these players back and fit for ther Milan game it will open up a wealth of options for Fergie, the trouble is most of them are estimated to come back roughly at the time of the game and i fear they could be rushed back like Ruud was the last time Utd played Milan. If Milan face the same XI Roma played in the first leg then there is no doubt Milan in my mind would qualify.
As for Chelsea, their flair comes almost entirely fom Cole and Robben but they havent been able to combine them at all this year and Cole has only just come back to fitness. If they get them back fit for the final then Mourinho will also have far more options with his attacking players. Cole in particular could be the key to unleashing Sheva because unlike the other Chelsea midfielders he doesnt look for a long range shot all the time :rolleyes: He can draw players and does see the options ahead which is what Sheva has been crying out for all season, usually its just Drogba and Lampard with the standard long ball, header down move that supplies the main threat for them.
If they can keep the Drogba/Lampard threat and add a Cole/Sheva threat then with their defence they will be extremely difficult to counter.
Alot of man utd fans are saying the same thing over and over again, 'Rooney and Ronaldo will run circles around the grandpa defense'
Lets be real, rooney is overrated, ronaldo is ok. Some utd fans are even comparing Ronaldo to Kaka, lol. I think Ronaldo is a better version of Aaron Lennon, if you keep him quiet he becomes frustrated and burnout (against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc) if teams squeeze the space then Ronaldo becomes frustrated. The way everybody praises Man utd they think they are superior, lets be honest its not like they cant be beaten, they have struggled sometimes this season.
Alot of man utd fans are saying the same thing over and over again, 'Rooney and Ronaldo will run circles around the grandpa defense'
Lets be real, rooney is overrated, ronaldo is ok. Some utd fans are even comparing Ronaldo to Kaka, lol. I think Ronaldo is a better version of Aaron Lennon, if you keep him quiet he becomes frustrated and burnout (against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc) if teams squeeze the space then Ronaldo becomes frustrated. The way everybody praises Man utd they think they are superior, lets be honest its not like they cant be beaten, they have struggled sometimes this season.
Sometimes is an understatement, they have been struggling all season in UCL bar the 1 match against roma. I really don't know what these guys have been smoking. 1 good game and the team is treated like gods. Ronaldo is not hard to stop, cafu already shown how it is done, look at his feet and then just take the ball away from him. :grinser:
I believe Milan has superior quality especially in the defence and midfield department.
why do I have the feeling that you spend 23/7 of your life wondering what could possibly go wrong and the rest 1/7 what could make things even worse?!
Lighten up man, show some belief and respect for your team by opening a cold beer and seeing it's bottom for the win yesterday :D
No one is saying that ManU will be easy but at this level who is after all ... and bayern is not such a bad team as you might think, it's just that we made them look bad ... very much like an inexperienced and "headless" Roma made ManU look much better than they really are, this last one is only in our advantage though ;)
Tell me about it! LOL! Now I'll give pireloke a small break. After this Bayern game when just 2 weeks ago, many here had no hope... I have nothing more to say to any who doubted:grinser:.
Some will continue to say "the odds are against us" against Man U. This may be true. HOWEVER... I say I'll take those odds any time, any day.
So if pireloke or anyone else wants to hope for the worse... I'll gladly smile in all my lonesome when the time comes for all to see how wrong such thoughts were. I know you'd do the same Zlat. Like you said it is no easy feat, but I think we are sitting pretty right now.
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 06:30
Some will continue to say "the odds are against us" against Man U. This may be true. HOWEVER... I say I'll take those odds any time, any day.
it won't be walk in the park but I'd take those odds any day over say ... Inter's odds of winning the CL :diablo:
Milan_Mad
13-04-2007, 09:05
Pippo Inzaghi loan forward in manchester with the 5 pack in midfield i think we should go for.. if gila starts then we are doomed :stupid:
jmacpherson
13-04-2007, 10:08
With regards to my earlier post I'm not basing my respect for Manu on the 7-1 thrashing of Roma but on their season as awhole in all comps.
Yes their UCL season hasn't been great but neither has ours. We drew and lost away games to much weaker opponents imho earlier in the campaign.
However, we are starting to build momentum and as others have posted we do get better in the latter stages of the comp.
With regards to the 4-5-1 formation closing down an opposing team relying on width...
Arsenal made the choice of formation based more on injuries than tactics. Both Van Persie and Henry were out for those games. They are currently still using that formation due to the 2 of them getting injured all over again.
Traditionally they are a 4-4-2 team like most English sides.
Bolton who have beaten Arsenal this season (twice I think) play 4-5-1 often and are a very phsyical side. They also boasted one of the selfishiest defences in the EPL. Manu beat them 4-0 with this formation.
Manu know how to negate the 4-5-1 formation, Ferguson has been around the block many a time.
However, experience at this stage of the comp counts for a lot. The key is the midfield battle. If our midfield is rested properly(extremely difficult because of the 4th spot battle) then the advantage is with us.
If we can starve the Manu attackers by cancelling out Carrick and Scholes, then they will become frustrated and we all know what happens when Rooney and Scholes get frustrated....red cards!
Kaka,Nesta and Maldini also needs to be rested. Nesta and Maldini seem to be the best combo for europe.
Can we clone Maldini and reverse the years for the next couple of seasons?
If Kaka is rested and firing on all his cylinders then I don't think it really matters who plays upfront.
And Dida must play as well as he did against Bayern 2nd-leg.
Either way, reckon we are in for 2 very interesting matches.
Milan has to win, our last chance of some silverware
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 10:39
Yes their UCL season hasn't been great but neither has ours. We drew and lost away games to much weaker opponents imho earlier in the campaign.
that's true but what stats don't say is that we didn't need to win those last couple of games in the CL group stage as we had already secured qualification ... as for manU, they had to win at all costs the very last game in the groups vs Benfica in order to qualify as their future in the CL was at stake till the very last moments.
Also, when we were playing in CL groups, we were in atrocious form as a team and had very average performances and results in Serie A even against small teams. In that same moment, ManU was doing great in EPL and building a comfortable cushion over Chelski by more or less cruising over other EPL teams ... with one note though:
ManU's record vs the bigger (read real quality) teams in EPL - like Chelski, Pool and Arsenal - is far from impressive and one of their few wins in these match ups (vs Pool at Einfield) came after Pool had run all over ManU for an entire game but in the end manU scored a goal out of nowhere really after being outplayed for the entire game - a game which ManU HAD to win to keep Chelski at bay, while Pool could comfortably afford to lose it.
All in all, ManU's current standing in the EPL is not the result of them being superior in the head-to-head battle with other major, quality EPL teams - quite the opposite, they've looked inferior quite often - but the result of ManU being more consistent and getting their points in the games vs smaller teams of far less quality than your average team in the CL.
What I am trying to say is that consistency on the scale that ManU has shown this season wins you national championships of 38 games or so but in a "smaller" scale championship like the CL, a team's overall quality is much more important than consistency as there are far fewer games to be played and often over considerable period of time from one another, when a team's form could go thru many cycles of ups and downs.
That's why i think Milan is so good in CL but not as successful in Serie A - we are a quality team but often inconsistent, while Juve under cappelo was the exact opposite - a consistent team but they reached their ceiling in quality at around the QF stage of the CL where they would simply lose to a team of higher overall quality.
Warro Bantan
13-04-2007, 11:10
Just read in interesting article from the Guardian:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200607/story/0,,2056112,00.html
Which reflects what I think will become more and more of an item for debate: Milanīs old defense, and the young legs of Man Us attack.
I found many of the posts previous to mine to be well thought out, with guarded optimisim quite prevalent...to my surprise.
I think if we play to our best, there is no team that can beat us, and it can come down to luck, or the lack thereof, that at times will make the difference for us...vs Man U, I think that "fortune will favour the brave"...and if we go out, establish our game, react to the scenario where they score first well enough, then it really isnt that difficult to see us winning, and doing so over both legs.
While I wont talk up our chances vs Man U, I have made a small wager on us winning, if only because the Man U fan was talking so much crap, I needed to get him to shut up....
We have the talent, and experience to win this game, and do so as we did 2 years ago...the major difference is that Roony and Ronaldo have made vast improvements (well more so Ronaldo) since then, but if West Ham can stop them, then why cant we?
I firmly believe that we can win this, but it wont be easy....all in all, I anticipate two excellent football games.
I believe we can win solely on the trend. The pedullum is going our way in good time and the wind as of tuesday is at our backs. The question left is whether this team can keep the bow away from getting into that irksome headwind? I think they can.... I KNOW THEY CAN. The odds though stacked up against us from the start of this year is actually going for us. Seriously you have got to be a sucker if anyone thinks ManU has the favorable wind in this contest.
I don't understand all this talk about our defense being old, we don't have an old defense Nesta, Oddo, Jankulovski, Kaladze they're all around 30 years old, only Maldini is an oldie but we all know he plays like he's 30.
I am very confident about the semi final i think we have what it takes to beat Manchester but it will be tough nonetheless.
:diablo: FORZAAAA MILAAAAAAAN :diablo:
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 11:22
that's true but what stats don't say is that we didn't need to win those last couple of games in the CL group stage as we had already secured qualification ... as for manU, they had to win at all costs the very last game in the groups vs Benfica in order to qualify as their future in the CL was at stake till the very last moments.
That doesnt tell the whole story, Utd won the first 3 games relatively easily and figured 1 point from the last 3 would be enough to qualify. Fergie took a weakened team away to Copenhagen and ended up getting beat, as for the game away to Celtic Utd controlled it but missed chances and lost to a late freekick. That was the only game Utd lost when going 100% for the win, and as Milan found later on, Celtic Park is a difficult place to get a result.
ManU's record vs the bigger (read real quality) teams in EPL - like Chelski, Pool and Arsenal - is far from impressive and one of their few wins in these match ups (vs Pool at Einfield) came after Pool had run all over ManU for an entire game but in the end manU scored a goal out of nowhere really after being outplayed for the entire game - a game which ManU HAD to win to keep Chelski at bay, while Pool could comfortably afford to lose it.
2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses isnt bad against our nearest rivals. The Liverpool game was won late but both of the Arsenal defeats came in the last few minutes too so luck has more than evened out over the 5 matches. As for the win at Anfield, Utd didnt have to win at all, a draw would have been a good result as our lead was effectively 7 points with the goal difference included. Liverpool wanted to win to overhaul Chelsea though losing ended their hopes of that, and if that wasnt motivation enough the chance to derail Utds title bid would have ensured they played at 100%, dont underestimate the depth of rivalry between the clubs :cool:
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 11:31
Bolton who have beaten Arsenal this season (twice I think) play 4-5-1 often and are a very phsyical side. They also boasted one of the selfishiest defences in the EPL. Manu beat them 4-0 with this formation.
Manu know how to negate the 4-5-1 formation, Ferguson has been around the block many a time.
There are variations within variations here :cool: Boltons 4-5-1 is different to that of Arsenal and Milan. The major difference is the style of attack, Bolton hit long to Davies who then feeds the incoming Diouf and Anelka. Utds defence with Vidic in is easily strong enough to deal with that style of attack and anything he didnt win was covered by Rio's anticipation.
Milan and Arsenal play the same paper tactics but build up through the side on the ground, this exploits Utds slow central midfield (one of the reasons Hargreaves is wanted) and if Kaka can break from midfield he will get space to attack.
Pireloke
13-04-2007, 12:02
Seriously, I admire KUI's optimism, I think in mindset or character terms we range as far as possible from both extremities when it comes to optimism vs. pessimism.
I was never the "cheerleader" type before Istanbul but I had enough confidence in Milan to for example watch next Sunday's match vs. Messina with optimism of a good result, but the me "post Istanbul syndrome" is an eternal pessimist, I fear and picture all the worse possible case scenarios so I won't get hurt as much as that final night in Turkey, I almost felt my heart break in my chest, as if someone from my family had died... I have an Istanbul syndrome lol.
Of course deep in my heart I picture Maldini lifting the Cup one more time, but that's way deep, and shhhhh don't tell anyone lol.
Anyway when I try to look objectively at the situation, KUI's optimism of calling us already the CL winners of this edition is as bizarre as me picturing us getting a worse beating than Roma... although in football anything is possible, we should know that by now. I hope KUI's right, oh God I hope so, but don't blame me for not falling in an euphoric state just yet, I'll do that when Milan wins the final and the referee blows the final whistle, not a second before!
As Milan fans we should by right all be optimists..... Milan though the best gentlemen ever to grace a football pitch are by and large a bunch of arrogant bastards on the field (not in general and not as persons) :D :D Its only this year that I have ever us taking smaller teams (inter included :D )seriously.
I wonder how many people remember the year that we won the CL...I think we lost to Inter, Piacenza and Empoli ( aka the small clubs) that year :rotfl:....while we beat Madrid Bayern Ajax AND Juve in the champions' league!! what's up with that? :grinser:
The thing is Milan ususally lose the way Lennox Lewis lost to Hasim Rahman.....Lennox KNEW that he was soooo much better than Hasim and at one point had the gaul to point at Hasim and Laugh.....Hasim of course duly knocked him out....did that prove that Hasim was better than Lewis??? HELL NO...Lennox came right back and beat the sh!t out of him......in a way Liverpool and Deportivo were just like that.....After getting such huuuuuge leads against both....its only human at some point to "point-and-laugh" as it were!!!
Our concentration has had to be especially strong as we are slightly shorthanded in terms of talent this year with the loss of sheva, unavailibility of Ronaldo and the age factor playing heavily in our defence. So for this season if we win at any stage I will say "BRAVO" and salute our heroes...if we lose...they deserve no less accolades for their accomplishnments on such scant resources....especially taking into account Bayern, Madrid, Arsenal, Barcelona and Valencia haven't made it as far as we have.
honestly with that rubbish striker gila....and Olivera not adapting (aka playing selfish crap), I don't really expect us to beat ManU, who on paper seem superior to us.....of course if he scores I'll be the first to apologise and praise him....Winning or losing this tie has not much effect on me....I'll still wear my Milan shirts every week and support every one of my soldiers(even Gila :5ok: ) to the bitter end.
Luciano_Moggi
13-04-2007, 13:09
Hi drucurl...
I was just passing by when I saw your nickname and I was obliged to say "Hello" and Good Luck against Manchester
Remember me?? :bri:
sure!!!! good to hear from a distinguished user such as yourself!! even more respect for keeping your username :D :guw:
Luciano_Moggi
13-04-2007, 13:18
sure!!!! good to hear from a distinguished user such as yourself!! even more respect for keeping your username :D :guw:
:p017: :p017:
We have another scandal. Thanks God :zany:
couple paradigms in all sports:
1- never looked past your next opponent
2- anyone can beat anyone on a given day
3- experience counts a lot
4- always have faith in your team...
i look at the man u match up as 50-50...we can shut down anyone. we can play a defencive game, and win. Question remains, can we score?
i cant wait for the ronaldo, king of the step-over,vs Maldini/Nesta/Oddo/Gatusso/Pirlo ... I see him being fouled frequently around mid-field.
giggs and rooney dont scare me... schoals is medoecre.
if portsmouth can beat them...
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 13:40
i cant wait for the ronaldo, king of the step-over,vs Maldini/Nesta/Oddo/Gatusso/Pirlo ... I see him being fouled frequently around mid-field.
thats a good point actually, does anyone know which Milan players are carrying bookings into this game? a few misplaced tackles or cynical fouls and there could be a few players missing the 2nd leg or potential final....
giggs and rooney dont scare me... schoals is medoecre.
:D
Believe me, you dont get a medal haul like Scholes has by being mediocre, he has been touted as beating Ronaldo and Drogba to the player of the season award this year, and he'll probably win goal of the season too for this little effort:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjnJqlPPwDo&mode=related&search=
Scholes is such an underrated player because he shuns the celebrity side of the game, no media deals, no talkshows, he doesnt even have an agent! If he had Beckhams looks and mentality he'd have got the acclaim he deserves, which is a sad indictment of the modern game imho :rolleyes:
couple paradigms in all sports:
1- never looked past your next opponent
2- anyone can beat anyone on a given day
3- experience counts a lot
4- always have faith in your team...
i look at the man u match up as 50-50...we can shut down anyone. we can play a defencive game, and win. Question remains, can we score?
i cant wait for the ronaldo, king of the step-over,vs Maldini/Nesta/Oddo/Gatusso/Pirlo ... I see him being fouled frequently around mid-field.
giggs and rooney dont scare me... schoals is medoecre.
if portsmouth can beat them...
i agree with you on most points except ronaldo as the king of step-overs. Pls don't joke with me on this, his step-overs are really crap. His legs are moving over the ball but the ball is usually close to stationary when he is doing so, my friends, man U supporters personally think his step-overs are crap and i concur. The king of step-over is Robinho, you go and find some video of him, he do step over while running at full speed with the ball, i was shocked when i first saw him. The only step-over i have seen that are as fast came from the young Ronaldo(our own one).
My lasting image form the previous Man U meeting is that of Cafu taking the ball away from c.ronaldo. That young punk was doing his fancy step-overs in front of Cafu, cafu look at him then back to the ball and just take the ball away right from his feet and run all the way up field with the ball. ronaldo just stand there and give a look of dis-belief. What make it more enjoyable is man u fans commenting that cafu make ronaldo look like a monkey. :grinser:
Sometimes is an understatement, they have been struggling all season in UCL bar the 1 match against roma. I really don't know what these guys have been smoking. 1 good game and the team is treated like gods. Ronaldo is not hard to stop, cafu already shown how it is done, look at his feet and then just take the ball away from him. :grinser:
I believe Milan has superior quality especially in the defence and midfield department.
Wait, they have Saha the greatest striker the french have produced in over 100 years. He would run circles around the henry of 04' and the platini of 84' dont mess
thats a good point actually, does anyone know which Milan players are carrying bookings into this game? a few misplaced tackles or cynical fouls and there could be a few players missing the 2nd leg or potential final....
maldini and bonera has 2 yellow cards, other than that gatusso, ambro, seedorf, kaladze, janku all got 1. Maldini can play the first leg and rest for the second leg. :grinser:
Warro Bantan
13-04-2007, 14:09
I don't really expect us to beat ManU, who on paper seem superior to us.........Winning or losing this tie has not much effect on me....I'll still wear my Milan shirts every week and support every one of my soldiers(even Gila :5ok: ) to the bitter end.
Nice post overall dru, but I differ with regard to a head to head comparison of Man U and us player for player on paper:
Man U.................AC Milan
GVan der Sar = Dida, or Dida is >
DNemanja Vidic < Nesta
DGabriel Heinze < or = Marek Janku
DPatrice Evra > or = Cafu
DJohn O'Shea > or = Favalli :D
DRio Ferdinand < Maldini/Bonera
DGary Neville < Oddo
DWes Brown < Kaladze
DMikael Silvestre > or = Costacurta :D
MMichael Carrick < Ambrosini/Pirlo
MDarren Fletcher < Rino
MRyan Giggs < Seedorf
MPaul Scholes < Pirlo
M Kieran Richardson < Gourcuff
M Cristiano Ronaldo < Kaka
M Ji-Sung Park < Seedorf
FOle Gunnar Solskjaer < Pippo
FWayne Rooney > or = Gilardino
FLouis Saha > Oliveira
FAlan Smith N/A, as Ronaldo isnt eligible.
Now I didnt spend as much time as I should on the analysis above, as I am not sure what side the DBs play on, to properly compare them with ours...but you can see, on paper, that man for man, they are not better than we are at all....but as a team, they might be, on a given night.
They may have more pace, in more positions, but pace alone does not a ball game win. Their forwards may be better than ours by and large, but they are certainly not superior to our defenders.
So I maintain that they can be beaten, and Milan should be able to do the job.
I know you rushed your list Warro, but i kind of disagree with some of your comparisons :D
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 14:45
2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses isnt bad against our nearest rivals. The Liverpool game was won late but both of the Arsenal defeats came in the last few minutes too so luck has more than evened out over the 5 matches. As for the win at Anfield, Utd didnt have to win at all, a draw would have been a good result as our lead was effectively 7 points with the goal difference included. Liverpool wanted to win to overhaul Chelsea though losing ended their hopes of that, and if that wasnt motivation enough the chance to derail Utds title bid would have ensured they played at 100%, dont underestimate the depth of rivalry between the clubs :cool:
At the time of that game at Anfield, there were 10+ games left to play in the EPL with one of them seeing ManU visit Chelski ... with that in mind, 7 pts were far from enough and it was indeed a must win game for manU - and if I am not wrong, manU's current lead over Chelski is quite curiously exactly 3 pts with that game at Stamford Bridge yet to come ;)
As for Pool, you can't compare fighting for the title with hoping to maybe get 2nd spot. By then Pool were already out of the title race and the dif between 2nd or 3rd spot was not a season-defining one, so for them that game was everything but a must-win one with CL coming before anything else, given that they were virtually guaranteed a spot among the first 4 in the EPL.
And as you said, the intensity of rivalry shouldn't be forgotten either - but the same argument works for ManU too ... my point however was that it was Pool who dominated the game - their domination was quite obvious - and that was one of the 2 games vs quality teams manU has managed to win so far in the EPL.
You are right, a 2-1-2 record isn't bad but it is not that impressive either, actually, it's quite average considering how one of those wins came at Anfield.
The dif between that ManU win and the game they lost to Arsenal in the dying minutes of regular time is that Arsenal won a game which they dominated, while ManU won that game completely against the run of play and "luck" like that strikes only once in a while.
All in all, don't get me wrong Steza, I do see ManU as a solid, a very solid team - they wouldn't be on top of EPL and at the SFs of CL if they weren't - but the reason I am going after them is this whole ManU-mania that has overwhelmed fans and "experts" alike after one odd result in that game vs Roma when, if one takes a more sober look at their results vs quality opposition this year, one would be anything but mightily impressed.
All you could see in British tabloids and manU forums is people wondering not who between ManU and Milan will go thru but how many goals ManU will manage to score in the process of reaching the final ... not much of a dif than what it was 2 years ago when Rooney and CR were supposed to run circles around Milan'd old rearguard ... now, the least they could do is show some respect ... why lessons have to be taught twice, I am asking ;)
on a dif note: do you know when Neville, Vidic, Saha, and Park are supposed to be back? I think I read that neville is out for the season, same with Sylvestre, while Vidic had a collar bone broken and may very well miss both Milan ties.
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 14:45
Not sure on the comparisons Warro, id say more like this:
GK__VDS = Dida - if he hadnt had a bad 2 weeks VDS would have got this
RB__Neville > Oddo - Neville is highly experienced and much underrated.
CB__Rio > Maldini - Much as i love Maldini he simply hasnt matched Rio for consistency this season, not really fair as he is 38 and Rio is in his prime but thats the way it is.
CB__Vidic < Nesta - Similar players but Nesta has more to his game. Vidic is exceptional in the air but Milan wont be playing to his strengths ;)
LB__Evra > Janku - Evra has been brilliant this year and must be doing well to be undisputed no.1 for the position over Heinze. Janku isnt quite as natural to the role imho.
CM__Carrick < Pirlo - but not as clear cut as many would believe, they are very similar players, neither have pace to burn but both have excellent range of passing, control the tempo well and can threaten from range.
CM__Scholes = Gattuso - Gattuso is better at the defensive role but Scholes carries far more attacking threat. I rate them even as they are equally as vital to their sides despite their differences as players.
CM__Giggs > Ambrosini - Very different types of players but Giggs is increasingly versatile and a consistent threat
AM__Ronaldo > Seedorf - I fear a few Milan fans are underestimating Ronaldo here, he may do more tricks than necesary but dont discount just how much of a threat he is. Clarence has his good days but not as frequently as he should.
SS__Rooney < Kaka - This is the position that will decide the tie and if Kaka performs he will be the matchwinner and propel Milan to the final. Rooney doesnt usually reach his domestic levels in Europe but now he has been restored to his true position he has 2 in 2 vs Roma and if he keeps his temper under control he can do much damage.
CF__Smith/Saha < Gila - Gila is the most natural finisher of the 3 despite his occasional troubles this season. Niether Smith or Saha are likely to be fully fit anyway :eek:
This does assume Milan play a 4-5-1 with Kaka supporting Gila and Utd play a 4-4-2/4-3-3 with Giggs helping central midfield while Ronaldo gets more attacking license, that is Fergies usual counter to 4-5-1.
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 14:56
maldini and bonera has 2 yellow cards, other than that gatusso, ambro, seedorf, kaladze, janku all got 1. Maldini can play the first leg and rest for the second leg. :grinser:
it's a good thing that Nesta and kaladze are back from injury otherwise we could have found ourselves short on CDs.
From Manu I think Heinze, Evra, Scholes (on a 4th YC) and C. Ronaldo are one YC away from suspension.
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 15:16
At the time of that game at Anfield, there were 10+ games left to play in the EPL with one of them seeing ManU visit Chelski ... with that in mind, 7 pts were far from enough and it was indeed a must win game for manU - and if I am not wrong, manU's current lead over Chelski is quite curiously exactly 3 pts with that game at Stamford Bridge yet to come
It really wasnt seen as must win, a draw would have still kept the result out of Chelseas hands. The lead is cut now because of the defeat to Pompey last week but if we didnt have the cushion i doubt Fergie wouldve sent out Richardson and co for that game.
And as you said, the intensity of rivalry shouldn't be forgotten either - but the same argument works for ManU too ... my point however was that it was Pool who dominated the game - their domination was quite obvious - and that was one of the 2 games vs quality teams manU has managed to win so far in the EPL.
Of course they dominated, they were at home vs their biggest rivals who didnt have to win, it was up to them to take the game to Utd and they tried, but they didnt actually put VDS under much pressure at all. I can only remember 1 decent save he had to make from Crouch.
Anyway, its not like Milan have fared much better vs the top sides in Italy, 2 losses to Inter, and 2 draws, 2 losses to Roma. All in all, domestic form wont count for much in this tie.
All in all, don't get me wrong Steza, I do see ManU as a solid, a very solid team - they wouldn't be on top of EPL and at the SFs of CL if they weren't - but the reason I am going after them is this whole ManU-mania that has overwhelmed fans and "experts" alike after one odd result in that game vs Roma when, if one takes a more sober look at their results vs quality opposition this year, one would be anything but mightily impressed.
Yeah, this is annoying, in fact i said on tuesday night that the same people here usually slamming us English for national bias were themselves hyping Utd beyond anything we'd ever said :dielaugh:
The reality is Utd have played well in patches all season but havent ever really had to excel for long periods. Whether they can reach and maintain their highest standards over both games vs Milan remains to be seen.
on a dif note: do you know when Neville, Vidic, Saha, and Park are supposed to be back? I think I read that neville is out for the season, same with Sylvestre, while Vidic had a collar bone broken and may very well miss both Milan ties.
Neville should be back just in time, though he usually needs 2-3 games to get back into the pace of the side and could be exploited if he faces Milan too soon. Saha is supposedly back in a few days, maybe even on the bench tommorow, but that is what they have been saying for 4 months :D Vidic is the real worry, he could make the 2nd leg but i doubt he'll make the first.
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 15:34
It really wasnt seen as must win, a draw would have still kept the result out of Chelseas hands. The lead is cut now because of the defeat to Pompey last week but if we didnt have the cushion i doubt Fergie wouldve sent out Richardson and co for that game.
that's what I meant by mentioning the 10+ games left to be played at the time - it would have been unlikely that ManU would pull all wins in their other games and thus render the Stamford Bridge showdown "pointless".
Both ManU and Chelski have more or less the same program with both teams involved on several fronts but Chelski have much more quality in depth than ManU, who are anything but helped by injuries to important players like Neville, Vidic, Saha, and the departure of larsson.
At the same time a look at the Chelski bench makes my head spin - their reserves are probably more expensive than Milan's first team with players like Robben (injured), SWP, Cole, makelele/mikel, Fererra, etc, etc. They can put two more or less equally good teams and this would give them big advantage in fighting for both EPL and CL at the end of the season when players are quite tired.
ManU more than anyone needs to win all their games left considering that Chelski will have the advantage of playing at home in the direct game and a wider bench for the remainder of the season.
Neville should be back just in time, though he usually needs 2-3 games to get back into the pace of the side and could be exploited if he faces Milan too soon. Saha is supposedly back in a few days, maybe even on the bench tommorow, but that is what they have been saying for 4 months :D Vidic is the real worry, he could make the 2nd leg but i doubt he'll make the first.
with neville coming back and Evra already injury-free, ManU's defense should be just fine considering that Heinze is very good at CD (surprisingly SAF insists on playing him at LB and Brown/O'Shea in CD)
On another note if you think about it, it could be Man Utd vs Chelsea 3 times for 3 cups, the winner could make it a treble (or quadruple in chelseas case). The PL match, FA Cup final and CL Final.
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 15:37
I would take the CL final out of the list of possibilities :D
Warro Bantan
13-04-2007, 15:40
Jim: I am sure u agree more with Stezīs assessment of the ratings, but unless I cant count well anymore (never could really, in retrospect) then we do have a slim advantage on paper by Stezīs reckoning..even if I think Neville is no where near the level of Oddo...
If we look at Oddoīs overall contribution this season so far, he is for me, a far better player than Neville...but again, these opinions are just that, and subjective, unless we have some stats to use to compare the players.
IMO Rio is nowhere near Maldiniīs class, even at 61, on crutches, Maldini is a better CB...may not be as solid in the air as Rio, but outclasses him in every other department.
Also, lets see how many times Giggs gets past Max...maybe 1 in 5 attempts...only to run into one of our WBs....so as for Giggs being better..well, its not an "apples with apples" comparison is it?
Anyhoo...the formations dont really allow for a player on player analysis in the truest sense...but I maintain my position, that individually, we have better players...though Man U may play better more frequently than we do, as a "team".
i think when you compare ferdinand and maldini, no one would say that ferdinand is the same calibre of defender. But you have to be fair, maldini lacks pace these days and his injuries prevent him from playing consistently.
It would be like saying my porsche that doesn't always start and breaks down is a better car than your ford that is reliant and runs well. Do you see my point?
I absolutely despise neville, but i think he's had a great season and is defensively better than Oddo and offers just as much going forward.
You're right on two fronts, one that it's all subjective (as most things are) and two that there aren't alot of like for like players to make this comparison thing a fair one. We don't really have anyone to compare to Giggs, Ronaldo or Park, they're all out and out wingers. The closest we have is Serginho who's both left wing and left back.
I differ with regard to a head to head comparison of Man U and us player for player on paper:
They may have more pace, in more positions, but pace alone does not a ball game win. Their forwards may be better than ours by and large, but they are certainly not superior to our defenders.
So I maintain that they can be beaten, and Milan should be able to do the job.
First of all ACM>>>>>>>MANU :D
Warro i think it makes more sense to compare the teams tactically than player for player:
-------------VDS---------------
--Evra----Ferdinand---Brown--Heinze
-Ronaldo---Carrick----Scholes--Giggs
---------Saha-------Rooney
subs:
Fletcher
Smith
Park
Solskajer
O'shea
Random GK guy :zany:
Richardson
-------------Gila------------
----Seedorf------Kaka-------
---Ambro---Pirlo---Gattuso---
Janku---Bonera--Nesta--Oddo
------------Dida------------
Subs:
Olivera
Maldini
Gorcuff
Kalac
Brocchi/ Cafu
Serginho/Di Gennaro (he's on our Squad list :p017: )
Kaladze (??)
This means that Saha and Rooney would have to face our pretty good backline....goals will be hard to come by for sure...but that also means that we will need a particularly defensive midfield (cough*cough* X-mas tree :guw: )...to reduce risks comming from outside the box shooting....In Milan this shouldn't be much of an issue but in England, where they are more likely to get the calls/ freekicks we could be in trouble.
Ferdinand is a super defender and I can't see much progress through him from basic attacks...however Seedorf and Kaka could get past him easily as very skillful players often make him look silly.....I see even Gila's silky touches messing with his head :5ok: The same goes for Brown....actually Brown is the weakspot of ManU...Alot of Barthez's clangers came on the heels of Brown's positional stupidity....I hope Seedorf uses his Cl experience to exploit this.. Vidic isn't there...but Heinze is a solid defender and we won't get past him easily. Kaka and perhaps seedorf are our only hope to get past Henize......however Heinze has a tendancy to be unecesarily rough and with Gila's antice who knows...we just might get a penalty!! Don't know too much about Evra other than he's fast and has a decent shot.
C.Ronaldo....this is where things get ugly lads :p155: He is complete...he can and has done it all in terms of attacking and the scary thing is that he's getting better....I knew this kid was going to be a star since he first came to ManU. This year he is by far the best player in the world. Freekicks..headders..long range shots ...goal poaching...corners the kid's got it!!! Plus he has good strength and speed to burn AND he can dribble......don't let people fool you with their drivel that he is a one trick pony!! This kid is almost as good as ronaldinho...we al remember what he did to Nesta not too long ago! I hope we can come up with something to neutralize him!! I certainly can't....other than to ask Gattuso/ Brocchi to pick up a red for breaking his ankles :uhm: ....maybe we could try to stick Cafu on him...Cafu is accustomed to players of his type I guess. If we do this, we have to provide cover for him as well as whoever is marking CR7 WILL get smoked.
The other thing is that Giggs is now like a mini CR7..so we'll have to keep him wrapped up too.
And now for the good news...ManU are a side that loves to counter attack and play on the wings... most of our attacks are generated in the centre of the pitch..so WE must force them to play our game. I can see Kaka merrily getting past ANYONE from ManU and as such we need to ensure that he has the game of his life against them...even if it means bringing Adriana Lima to his room :sexe: for some pre-game inspiration :zany:
Attacking the goal from distance is a great idea. We can conserve our energy and VDS isn't good with long rangers. Were I Carlo I'd tell Kaka Pirlo and Seedorf to shoot till they got cramps!!! I don't fear anyone's long range shoots from ManU except perhaps Rooney/ Ronaldo..plus Dida is great with these :sweeteye:
C.Ronaldo....this is where things get ugly lads :p155: He is complete...he can and has done it all in terms of attacking and the scary thing is that he's getting better....I knew this kid was going to be a star since he first came to ManU. This year he is by far the best player in the world. Freekicks..headders..long range shots ...goal poaching...corners the kid's got it!!! Plus he has good strength and speed to burn AND he can dribble......don't let people fool you with their drivel that he is a one trick pony!! This kid is almost as good as ronaldinho...we al remember what he did to Nesta not too long ago! I hope we can come up with something to neutralize him!! I certainly can't....other than to ask Gattuso/ Brocchi to pick up a red for breaking his ankles :uhm: ....maybe we could try to stick Cafu on him...Cafu is accustomed to players of his type I guess. If we do this, we have to provide cover for him as well as whoever is marking CR7 WILL get smoked.
You might want to join the C.Ronaldo fanclub instead of supporting Milan since you obviously is a huge fan of C.Ronaldo. He is so good at long range shots, headers, freekicks, goal poaching so how many goals has he score in UCL this season? 2 and both against a dead Roma. Definitely a great tally by any means since kaka only score 7 without any assists by his team mates. I almost forgot, a fatty also known as Ronaldo score 2 goals in just 136mins while it take C.Ronaldo 787mins. C. Ronaldo must be the best player on earth, no doubt at all. :devf:
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 16:49
You might want to join the C.Ronaldo fanclub instead of supporting Milan since you obviously is a huge fan of C.Ronaldo.
lol, i wondered how long that would take :D
Dru, while i actually agree with your assessment i darent say it quite like that for fear of being banned from MM for the footballing equivalent of blasphemy :dielaugh:
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 16:52
that's what I meant by mentioning the 10+ games left to be played at the time - it would have been unlikely that ManU would pull all wins in their other games and thus render the Stamford Bridge showdown "pointless".
I actually said this at the time in another thread, that the must win games werent the big 2 (Liverpool and Chelsea) but the smaller games. As long as Utd won those then the league was ours no matter what happened in the other 2 games. The Liverpool win was a bomus that basically let Fergie risk a weakened side against Pompey to keep players fresh for Roma, if we had lost to Liverpool the team would have been stronger, at least from the start.
i think when you compare ferdinand and maldini, no one would say that ferdinand is the same calibre of defender. But you have to be fair, maldini lacks pace these days and his injuries prevent him from playing consistently.
It would be like saying my porsche that doesn't always start and breaks down is a better car than your ford that is reliant and runs well. Do you see my point?
I absolutely despise neville, but i think he's had a great season and is defensively better than Oddo and offers just as much going forward.
You're right on two fronts, one that it's all subjective (as most things are) and two that there aren't alot of like for like players to make this comparison thing a fair one. We don't really have anyone to compare to Giggs, Ronaldo or Park, they're all out and out wingers. The closest we have is Serginho who's both left wing and left back.
I would give you the neville oddo comparison on this but ferdinand better than maldini? you got to be kidding, Maldini lack the pace nowaday but you don't need to be sprinter to be a good central defender. I haven't seen any kind of pace from Nesta, cannavaro etc but they are still great defenders, the key is timing the tackles and reading the game. Ferdinand clearly lack that, he always look uncomfortable or silly as somebody put it whenever a skilful dribbler get near him. He would either concede a penalty or get carded when playing against somebody like kaka or risk conceding a goal. Let's just say i am more impressed with bonera than ferdinand.
lol, i wondered how long that would take :D
Dru, while i actually agree with your assessment i darent say it quite like that for fear of being banned from MM for the footballing equivalent of blasphemy :dielaugh:
Of course, i expect nothing less coming from a die hard Man U fan. :grinser:
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 17:05
Jim: I am sure u agree more with Stezīs assessment of the ratings, but unless I cant count well anymore (never could really, in retrospect) then we do have a slim advantage on paper by Stezīs reckoning..even if I think Neville is no where near the level of Oddo...
I think it came out even, though i honestly didnt plan that to happen :D
If we look at Oddoīs overall contribution this season so far, he is for me, a far better player than Neville...but again, these opinions are just that, and subjective, unless we have some stats to use to compare the players.
Neville is Utds captain and as Jim says is not only stronger defensively than Oddo but at least as effective going forward. It often gets overlooked just how many overlaps he does for Ronaldo, and how much he gets forward, though he is the only outfield player to have not scored for Utd this season! ;)
IMO Rio is nowhere near Maldiniīs class, even at 61, on crutches, Maldini is a better CB...may not be as solid in the air as Rio, but outclasses him in every other department.
Rio suffers alot in the eyes of critics because he makes things look so easy, maybe in 10 years he'll be reassessed properly but right now it seems a lot of people look at his price tag and cant see beyond it.
Also, lets see how many times Giggs gets past Max...maybe 1 in 5 attempts...only to run into one of our WBs....so as for Giggs being better..well, its not an "apples with apples" comparison is it?
its not really a fair comparison but they will clash on the field as Giggs will become a 3rd central midfielder for Utd at times.
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 17:15
Of course, i expect nothing less coming from a die hard Man U fan.
true, but Drucurl is 100% Milan, he just doesnt have the insecurities of some who would rather pretend that Utd are made up of overrated chumps who somehow fluke their way into these tournaments :devf:
I genuinely wouldnt want to see it but if Ronaldo is firing on all cylinders on the night he is capable of tearing Paolo to shreds :eek:
the key is timing the tackles and reading the game. Ferdinand clearly lack that
:dielaugh:
You really havent seen Utd play much have you, he is renowned as the best in England at doing that, they were calling him the new Bobby Moore when he was only 17 years old because his anticipation was so good even at that age :grinser:
he always look uncomfortable or silly as somebody put it whenever a skilful dribbler get near him. He would either concede a penalty or get carded when playing against somebody like kaka or risk conceding a goal. Let's just say i am more impressed with bonera than ferdinand.
I suggest you look up the stats on how many penalties Rio concedes and how many bookings he had in his career. To my knowledge he averages 1-2 yellows a year, which is astonishingly low for a central defender. The reason for that is of course his ability to read the game and tackle cleanly, not that you believe he can do that :eek: :dielaugh:
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 17:58
I actually said this at the time in another thread, that the must win games werent the big 2 (Liverpool and Chelsea) but the smaller games. As long as Utd won those then the league was ours no matter what happened in the other 2 games. The Liverpool win was a bomus that basically let Fergie risk a weakened side against Pompey to keep players fresh for Roma, if we had lost to Liverpool the team would have been stronger, at least from the start.
mmmm, you make it sound as if ManU didn't care about the "big' games ... let's not go there, shall we? ;)
My whole point from sentence one was that manU is where it is namely because they were consistent enough in getting points from smaller teams which made up for their less than impressive record vs Pool, Chelski and Arsenal ... this however doesn't mean that ManU treated big games as "whatever pts we get, it's a bonus" thing but did their best to win them ... and remember, the argument of the intense rivalry in the derbies goes both ways :).
I also think that there is lot more lying in ManU's less than stellar record vs big teams in EPL - IMO, it shows not enough overall quality when it comes to measuring up with the best at the highest level ... or at least, definite lack of consistency of showing such capability of this ManU team ... and that's exactly the type of match-ups one could expect in CL (0 pts or 10 pts vs. teams like Pompey don't count here for anything) and the thing is - there is only one Roma out there, so for how long will the gifts keep coming at the hands of Rooney, Giggsy and Co? ;)
true, Milan don't have much of a record in big games themselves but the first 2/3 of our season were average at best for a number of reasons - calciopoli, lack in physical preparation over the summer due to WC and calciopoli, etc, etc - so that's more or less understandable.
The first 1/3 of our season was just plain bad, the second 1/3 was used to make up for the lack in fitness and raise the team on it's feet (although we were still shaky), and the final 1/3 - the one we are currently in - we should be finally reaping the fruits of our work ... and so far, that's what has been going on.
the point is, it's is just now that we are starting to see the good old Milan come to form and this current side has little to do with the one that set those "bad" records in the first half of the serie A season ... Hence my belief we have more than a 50-50 chance of seeing ManU off, although if you ask the experts, ManU annihilated Roma, so Milan doesn't stand a chance too. :str: :diablo:
Personally the one thing that worries me about Milan is not the supposedly old defense that has no chance vs C. Ronaldos speed and stepovers but whether our fitness will hold up for the rest of the season ... if we keep away from injuries, I guess we should be able to keep players fresh with proper rotation.
Stezagud
13-04-2007, 18:29
mmmm, you make it sound as if ManU didn't care about the "big' games ... let's not go there, shall we?
I said it at the time and i believe it now, its not that they dont care, its that winning isnt actually important, not losing is ;)
For example if Utd get a draw from Stamford Bridge and secure the title would they consider it a bad result? Same at Anfield, as long as it wasnt a defeat it was a good result, the fact we got a last minute winner made it a great result but 0-0 wsould have been fine. The rivalry was the same for both sides but winning was more important to Liverpool than to Utd for the reasons stated previously, losing or drawing meant nothing to them, a win was the only result that could appease their fans and keep them in touch with Chelsea.
I also think that there is lot more lying in ManU's less than stellar record vs big teams in EPL - IMO, it shows not enough overall quality when it comes to measuring up with the best at the highest level
I think you could be reading too much into it, for example if you look back to last season Utd beat all 3 of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal at OT and got 2 away draws, only losing at Stamford Bridge. That would be a good record and yet that year we were nowhere near Chelsea in the league (due to dropping points vs the lesser sides) and went out in the CL group stages!
This season the younger players are more adept at breaking down teams who come only to defend, and this is taking the pressure off the bigger matches.
I understand that i must be hated for saying what i said but it is foolish to bury our heads in the sand. CR7 is a player that the WHOLE TEAM REQUESTED. I mean for a whole TEAM to ask for one player is quite extraordinary. For instance there is much division in our own team about the arrival of R10. Anyone who has watched manu games would see the kid is going to be special. Oh and i still believe that there is only one ronaldo but he plays for us :D
zlatanov
13-04-2007, 19:27
I think you could be reading too much into it, for example if you look back to last season Utd beat all 3 of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal at OT and got 2 away draws, only losing at Stamford Bridge. That would be a good record and yet that year we were nowhere near Chelsea in the league (due to dropping points vs the lesser sides) and went out in the CL group stages!
This season the younger players are more adept at breaking down teams who come only to defend, and this is taking the pressure off the bigger matches.
you do have a point steza, but referring to a dif season is a whole dif mix, I think. For instance, when ManU got those positive results, were they still playing in CL or were they able to concentrate exclusively on EPL and fight for 2nd spot? How about the other teams they beat ... were they still fighting in CL or did they have only EPL to worry about?
If you ask me, compoaring two dif season won't take us anywhere as there are two many variables and unknowns to take care of, although on paper it looks like a straightforward comparison.
I could give it a try though :):
Pool under rafa seems to be focusing on CL mostly and the same could be said about Arsenal last year - all in all, both teams didn't have EPl title in mind once Chelski ran away in the points and all they cared about was CL and within first 4 in EPL, at least until they were still in the CL, that is.
Also, Pool last year were pretty bad in Europe - their worst under Rafa - although they did very well in EPL - their best EPL record under Rafa, I think - but all in all the team seemed to have a CL hangover and left the CL thru the back door early on (for me, reason #1 for their pretty good EPL ranking).
Above all, however, Arsenal plain and simple focused on CL and almost missed the train for this year's CL because of that. They did do great in Europe but it has to be noted that Wenger forgot about his flair-loaded football and after close to 10 years finally "changed" his entire approach to the team's tactics in Europe - they were much more defensive, much more patient, their game was more mature so to speak ... this however was not the Arsenal in EPL where they were still the good old Gunners of Wenger's dreams of open-space football, which with the young players on that squad was often an easy target for the opponent - hence their average not to say bad EPL season last year.
Chelski themselves had a pretty average CL last year too - I think their worst performance in the competition under the guidance of the special one (not sure about the stats, though).
So, all in all, it really depends on what was the form of those other teams - Pool, Arsenal, CHelski - when ManU got those good results vs them.
This year, both Pool and Chelski are performing very well in CL and EPL (this is true for Pool in the second half of the season). Arsenal were also good in the group stages but for some reason - too many injuries maybe - their season fell apart after the Christmass break in the CL. When they beat ManU, I thinkthey were still in their "good period" though.
As for why ManU went out of CL so early but did very well in EPL, I am not sure how they performed, but I think they picked up their form in the second part of the season and made up for their errors earlier in the EPL ... of course, they were already out of CL by that time ... however, again, I am not sure how much of a "proof' is their good record vs the other big teams in the EPL as all of those had a subpar season for their standards, especially in Europe (apart from Arsenal, who however were plain bad in EPL).
Told ya - too many variable and unknowns, too many IFs ... best is to keep it within the frame of the current season, me thinks, because that's what's relevant here ;)
curry chicken
13-04-2007, 20:53
couple paradigms in all sports:
1- never looked past your next opponent
2- anyone can beat anyone on a given day
3- experience counts a lot
4- always have faith in your team...
Love the last one there. So often we forget that little detail of the heart when we're chatting up stats and history.
and *le gasp* you forgot one:
5- the best haircut always wins.
Step-overs of doom? Fine. But I beleive Mr. C. Ronaldo will never match the coiffed genius of the greasy Italian hair. :dielaugh:
My stand on this semi-final clash is a bit different. It may have something to do with the feeling of zen coming over me after working out some family problems this weekend. I'm hoping for a good performance, but I will not be too dissapointed with a loss. There isn't anything Milan can do against Man. Utd to make me want to rip my heart out...except go 10 down that is. I feel as if we've got nothing to lose because we've kinda seen the worst this season, especially the beginning and still we've made it thus far. Farther than many would have expected us to. I know our history, I know how we fight. All that's left now is to go out there and play some good football without losing our heads. Simple.
Okay, okay. Maybe not so simple.
you do have a point steza, but referring to a dif season is a whole dif mix, I think. For instance, when ManU got those positive results, were they still playing in CL or were they able to concentrate exclusively on EPL and fight for 2nd spot? How about the other teams they beat ... were they still fighting in CL or did they have only EPL to worry about?
If you ask me, compoaring two dif season won't take us anywhere as there are two many variables and unknowns to take care of, although on paper it looks like a straightforward comparison.
I could give it a try though :):
Pool under rafa seems to be focusing on CL mostly and the same could be said about Arsenal last year - all in all, both teams didn't have EPl title in mind once Chelski ran away in the points and all they cared about was CL and within first 4 in EPL, at least until they were still in the CL, that is.
Also, Pool last year were pretty bad in Europe - their worst under Rafa - although they did very well in EPL - their best EPL record under Rafa, I think - but all in all the team seemed to have a CL hangover and left the CL thru the back door early on (for me, reason #1 for their pretty good EPL ranking).
Above all, however, Arsenal plain and simple focused on CL and almost missed the train for this year's CL because of that. They did do great in Europe but it has to be noted that Wenger forgot about his flair-loaded football and after close to 10 years finally "changed" his entire approach to the team's tactics in Europe - they were much more defensive, much more patient, their game was more mature so to speak ... this however was not the Arsenal in EPL where they were still the good old Gunners of Wenger's dreams of open-space football, which with the young players on that squad was often an easy target for the opponent - hence their average not to say bad EPL season last year.
Chelski themselves had a pretty average CL last year too - I think their worst performance in the competition under the guidance of the special one (not sure about the stats, though).
So, all in all, it really depends on what was the form of those other teams - Pool, Arsenal, CHelski - when ManU got those good results vs them.
This year, both Pool and Chelski are performing very well in CL and EPL (this is true for Pool in the second half of the season). Arsenal were also good in the group stages but for some reason - too many injuries maybe - their season fell apart after the Christmass break in the CL. When they beat ManU, I thinkthey were still in their "good period" though.
As for why ManU went out of CL so early but did very well in EPL, I am not sure how they performed, but I think they picked up their form in the second part of the season and made up for their errors earlier in the EPL ... of course, they were already out of CL by that time ... however, again, I am not sure how much of a "proof' is their good record vs the other big teams in the EPL as all of those had a subpar season for their standards, especially in Europe (apart from Arsenal, who however were plain bad in EPL).
Told ya - too many variable and unknowns, too many IFs ... best is to keep it within the frame of the current season, me thinks, because that's what's relevant here ;)
Zlatanov, I dont know ,why you have to explain to people, why this ,why that, Milan is perhaps the only team , who can beat anyone anywhere on anygiven date, whether in munich or manchester!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are Mila, and thats the point............
Zlatanov, I dont know ,why you have to explain to people, why this ,why that, Milan is perhaps the only team , who can beat anyone anywhere on anygiven date, whether in munich or manchester!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are Mila, and thats the point............
esp it's difficult to convince people these days :D
Hasan Rossonero
13-04-2007, 23:05
I am very confident that we will beat Man U. Our team is hitting form, and even our defence looks like it knows what it's doing.
Forza Milan!
esp it's difficult to convince people these days :D
:grinser: :grinser:
true, but Drucurl is 100% Milan, he just doesnt have the insecurities of some who would rather pretend that Utd are made up of overrated chumps who somehow fluke their way into these tournaments :devf:
I genuinely wouldnt want to see it but if Ronaldo is firing on all cylinders on the night he is capable of tearing Paolo to shreds :eek:
:dielaugh:
You really havent seen Utd play much have you, he is renowned as the best in England at doing that, they were calling him the new Bobby Moore when he was only 17 years old because his anticipation was so good even at that age :grinser:
I suggest you look up the stats on how many penalties Rio concedes and how many bookings he had in his career. To my knowledge he averages 1-2 yellows a year, which is astonishingly low for a central defender. The reason for that is of course his ability to read the game and tackle cleanly, not that you believe he can do that :eek: :dielaugh:
Man U is always over-rated, there is no escaping from that. Their abilities and hype just doesn't match. Whether you want to admit it or not, that always been the case.
I haven't watch Man U play? you must be joking. I came from Singapore and you go and do a search about the football people watch here. There is only EPL on TV, no Serie A, no La Liga. What do you think? Papers are filled with EPL news, almost no news on Serie A and La liga.
I don't wish to discuss about ronaldo anymore. We will see during the match. I also don't wish to discuss about Rio. You obviously doesn't know about the word "skilful" dribblers, there are far and few between in EPL where most teams just like to play fast and furious and long ball is prevalent. He can tackle against lesser players but certainly not players like ronaldinho, kaka. We will never see eye to eye on this so no point discussing anymore. Just remember that EPL and UCL is a different game altogether and if you continue to use your EPL standards to judge players then be prepared to be suprised.
Im sure we can do it our way, again. Talk means nothing untill Paolo, Nesta, Gattuso and rest step on the field and colse down every bit of a field as usual. Last time it was Crespo, maybe Gila can do it this time :devf:
I don't think Man U is overrated, at least not this year. I believe that Man U is going to give Milan a hard time; but it almost never hurts that Milan is the underdog. In fact, Milan almost always played better as the underdog. Example: against Bayern, against Real (many years ago) etc...
As long as they don't lead like 3-0 or 4-1 in the first league, I'm happy and you know why lol
I was never the "cheerleader" type before Istanbul but I had enough confidence in Milan to for example watch next Sunday's match vs. Messina with optimism of a good result, but the me "post Istanbul syndrome" is an eternal pessimist, I fear and picture all the worse possible case scenarios so I won't get hurt as much as that final night in Turkey, I almost felt my heart break in my chest, as if someone from my family had died... I have an Istanbul syndrome lol.
Wow! In this case Pireloke, I will apologise to you right now. Seriously... I was foolishly trying to chastise you for not being behind this team. With your explanation of "what has changed" for you after Instanbul, I now see where you are coming from. Your take on "zero expectation" of this team now makes sense in light of your trauma.
I have a similar yet slight different attitude than you have. I always hope for the best, but also with zero expectation. So if the case happens that we lose, I'm not disappointed and also feel we can and will do better the next time around. If not, perhaps the next time around. Those times which we do hit the summit above the skies, I hold it dearly and savor the moment with the full expectation that perhaps our stay there might not be long. I try to enjoy the low points as well as the high points of this team's story. Remember that Milan is not only a football club, but also a great STORY that much is yet to be read, seen, or told. Who knows what will happen in the next chapter? Just know this... the STORY goes on and a great one it is.
FORZA MILAN!
Stezagud
14-04-2007, 05:21
Told ya - too many variable and unknowns, too many IFs ... best is to keep it within the frame of the current season, me thinks, because that's what's relevant here
True, i dont like comparing different seasons because the players and motivations are different, all i will say is that Utds best performances vs the other big sides last year came while we were still in the CL so that factor at least wasnt an issue :)
It is also true that the big Prem performances contain different motivations, as you say there are so many variables. As a gambler looking at the Bayern - Milan game i must admit i paid zero attention to performances against big domestic rivals because it just didnt seem worth attempting to make sense of each result in its particular context. 90% of my thinking came from the opposing XI's, and how they will attempt to play tactically.
Milan is perhaps the only team , who can beat anyone anywhere on anygiven date, whether in munich or manchester!
i think most teams can beat anyone, anywhere on their day.
To hwmook and anyone else who follows his line of thought. You are mistaken if you think i'm saying Ferdinand is overall a better defender than Maldini. I tried to make this clear but obviously i failed. My point, which i will try to get across for a third time ( :rolleyes: ) is that in this season Maldini isn't as consistent and lacks the pace of previous seasons because of injuries. So on that basis and given that Ferdinand is having a reasonably good season, you'd have to say that they are on a similar level. We're not comparing the Maldini of old or the Maldini all Milan fans see in their hearts, just what has been shown this season.
Again i shall go back to my car analogy. If i had a prestige car that only works properly/well 50% of the time and someone else had an average family car that works well 90% of the time, you'd say in terms of effectiveness that both cars were on a similar level, wouldn't you?
I am very confident that we will beat Man U. Our team is hitting form, and even our defence looks like it knows what it's doing.
Forza Milan!
Well you never let us down with your previous prediction for the Bayern game, nice one i can relax now.
i think most teams can beat anyone, anywhere on their day.
To hwmook and anyone else who follows his line of thought. You are mistaken if you think i'm saying Ferdinand is overall a better defender than Maldini. I tried to make this clear but obviously i failed. My point, which i will try to get across for a third time ( :rolleyes: ) is that in this season Maldini isn't as consistent and lacks the pace of previous seasons because of injuries. So on that basis and given that Ferdinand is having a reasonably good season, you'd have to say that they are on a similar level. We're not comparing the Maldini of old or the Maldini all Milan fans see in their hearts, just what has been shown this season.
Again i shall go back to my car analogy. If i had a prestige car that only works properly/well 50% of the time and someone else had an average family car that works well 90% of the time, you'd say in terms of effectiveness that both cars were on a similar level, wouldn't you?
....and this is exactly my point!!! Wes Brown will and can never attain to the heights of Paolo and Billy....but you can be sure that some young punk striker isn't going to smoke him the way Oba Martins ripped past Maldini a few seasons ago. :respect:
I'm just being real and giving our opponents their due respect
:5ok:
hitmannq8
14-04-2007, 16:42
Last time milan won was in Manchester in 2003. Maldini lifted the cup that his dad also lifted 40 years before that in the same Manchester stadium..
This year the final will be in Athens.. and guess what, the last CL final that was played in Athens was 1994, Milan x Barcelona. We were HEAVY underdogs against Romario/Stoichkov and co, especially that Baresi was out injured and we didnt have our Van Basten. The odds for the game were not on who wins, but on the difference of goals that Barca will win. That game ended 4-0 to Milan. Maldini was there as a youngster and won his 3rd CL.
13 years later, and we're 2 games away from another CL final in Athens, possibly Maldini's last chance to win a cup in his career (as a player :)).. We italian fans love superstition and statistics..If milan reach this final it will be his 8th CL final!!!!! and if he manages to win it, it'll be his 5th CL title!!!! Im not sure but i dont think any player has ever played 8 finals and won 5 (if u exclude the 1950's when there was no ref, no offsides!)..
forza milan, bring back the cup with big ears back home :)
Hitman, you took a couple of titles away from us man. :D We have won 6 so far and if we win this one it will be the 7th unless u want to exclude the 60's as well.
Stezagud
15-04-2007, 06:23
He is talking about Maldini, not Milan :D
Hasan Rossonero
17-04-2007, 08:16
Guys this is something I wrote for my column (www.livesoccertv.com/blog) ...ENJOY:
Spare a thought for Milan
Milan have more than what it takes to reach Athens, says Hasan Saiyid
Gennaro Gattuso, speaking to the press after a 2-0 Milan win over Bayern Munich, could not help but aggrandize his clubs progress into the Champions League semi-final as a triumph for Italian football.
After yesterdays 7-1 people were making fun of us, said Gattuso.
We are sorry for Roma, but I think Italian football has real value and we are World Champions.
Romas grisly fate at the hands of Manchester United once again urged commentators all over Europe to sound the death knell for Italian football and Gattuso to leap to its defence with typical candour. That was Tuesday, mind you, and since Bayern had two away goals under their belt, you could forgive pundits for tentatively penciling in a semi-final between United and the German club.
Milan, however, had not read the script. In the space of four minutes, Italys flag-bearers scored twice through Clarence Seedorf and Filippo Inzaghi, the former also providing a sumptuous back-heel through ball for the latter to slot home.
The tie was as good as over after that as Milan suffocated a floundering Bayern side, which looked as pedestrian as it did pathetic. Regardless of the ease with which they swept Bayern aside, the Rossoneris fourth semi-final in five seasons is no mean featit is an achievement that no other side in Europe has been able to match.
But that remarkable achievement barely registered as people chose to focus instead on the three Premiership giants in the semi-finals and that 7-1 win, which has already started to achieve distinct mythic status. Indeed, many are already beaming at the prospect of Manchester United playing one of Liverpool or Chelsea; the overriding feeling is that Uniteds Cristiano Ronaldo, Ryan Giggs and Wayne Rooney will have too much for a doddering Milan defence. So on to Athens it is for United, then?
Not quite. Spare a thought for Milan. Spare a thought for calcio.
The six times European champions are not here to just make up the numbers, nor will they, in all likelihood, implode like Roma. After an inauspicious start to the season, Milan have sprung into life and now lie just a point behind the last Champions League spot. Fourth place would normally be the minimum objective for Milan, but after Calciopolis eight point penalty, it was not exactly a foregone conclusion.
In late December things looked very bleak as Carlo Ancelottis men were languishing in the bottom half of the table. However, since then, the Rossoneri have lost just once, drawn twice, and won all their other games to motor into fifth place. Couple that purple patch of form with incomparable experience in the competition, and United could be in for more than a leisurely stroll over the two legs.
Even player for player, Milan compare to their United counterparts handsomely. Cristiano Ronaldo may be playing the football of his life, but Milan have their very own weapon in Kaka. For Rio Ferdinand read Alessandro Nesta, and for Wayne Rooney meet, er, Filippo Inzaghi.
The last comparison may have elicited boisterous laughter on your part but humour me for a few moments. Inzaghi may not have the skill of Rooney outside the penalty area, nor his grit, but he remains a deadly striker and the fifth all-time leading scorer in the Champions League. The game against Bayern illustrated the point: despite being out for weeks and having played only a handful of games all season, Inzaghi took his chanceeven if it was suspiciously offsidewith characteristic aplomb.
Indeed, with the departure of Andriy Shevchenko, Ronaldos ineligibility for the Champions League and Gilardinos inexperience on this stage, Milan will look to Inzaghi to do the job during both legs. Ancelotti will also be reveling in the fact that the speedy Serginho has returned from injury to give the Rossoneri considerable speed on the flank. The Brazilian may not have the vision of Giggs, but he can be devastatingly incisive.
There are other factors too. Milan have to achieve only fourth place domestically to count their season as satisfactory. United, however, are three points ahead of Chelsea at the summit of the Premiership and will have to wage a two-front war, assuming, of course, that the FA Cup is not a top priority.
So the English celebrations may have just started, and the police in Athens may be preparing for an all English final, but dont be surprised if Milan crash the party.
zlatanov
17-04-2007, 09:25
nice one, Hasan, thanks for posting it here :5ok:
Although, you didn't answer the one question bothering the minds of most ManU fans - "How manu goals above 3 will ManU score vs Milan?" :rolleyes: :grinser:
curry chicken
17-04-2007, 09:28
Great article Hasan! Thanks, man.
Warro Bantan
17-04-2007, 10:46
Well done Hasan!! :D :D :D
Blacktop
17-04-2007, 12:32
Terrific article. :D
Hasan Rossonero
17-04-2007, 12:39
Thanks guys. Glad you enjoyed it!
Someone has to talk up our chances. The press has barely mentioned us.
ACMILAN1983
17-04-2007, 16:27
Thanks Hasan, a nice read :)
Wow, some people were using their little grey cells these days. Using them a lot, it seems.
This must be the best topic on MM since I joined.
Nice work my Hercul Poirots a.k.a Drucurl, Stezagud, Zlatanov and Hasan.
Youve said everything. All that is left for me is to give my prediction :
ManU-Milan 1:1 with Giggs scoring in last minute
Milan-ManU 2:3 with Inzaghi scoring twice for 2:0 and bloody Roy Keane, Dwight York and Andy Cole scoring for Manchester.
Wait, none of them plays for Manchester anymore :grinser:
Yes, yes, yes , this tie reminds me of the most painful moment of my life as a Juve fan.
Again a semifinal, year 1999, again Carlo Ancelotti, again Pippo Inzaghi, again an Italian team that was the best team in Europe for the past 5 years but was pretty bad domestically in the particular season, again Alex "the most iritating face in the football world" Ferguson and again Manchester United fighting on all 3 fronts and maybe winning everywhere.
King tiger
17-04-2007, 16:39
fortunately Milan is no Juve, we are better, and we will win :D
Im scared without Dida we have kalac, oh god pleast not kalac
Ok, so I have a confession :ban: .....I supported ManU when they won the treble :uhm: . Their lead striker was Dwight Yorke and he was one of the few Trinidadians succeeding in Europe...infact some think he was the best player in the treble year (he won the Carling Player of the year that year)... I throw myself at the mercy of the court :v408: ...although I am aware that if this tribunal is spearheaded by hwmook I'm screwed :u31: (actually this is how I know that ManU are no pushovers even though we pushed them over last time.
ManU screwed Juve Liverpool style because if Yorke didn't break free and unleash Cole in the dying minutes Juve would have been through!! Anyway that's when I first fell in love with Inzaghi :love:
Even though I SOON AFTER became a Milan fan :guw: I have still followed ManU and this is how I know that C.Ronaldo is the real deal. I mean Fergie brought him in to repalce Becks for god's sake...and at the height of his footballing career.
because if Yorke didn't break free and unleash Cole in the dying minutes Juve would have been through!!
Wrong :stupid:
2:2 was good for ManU because the first leg in Manchester ended 1:1.
And because you liked ManU of 1999 ( which was a team that played excellent football but is still my most hated team of all times) i'm going to punish you by saying Ronaldo is an overrated elephant who scores only "not important goals", as Oksana would have said ! :p017:
I'm sorry on both counts :kap: ....I will accept the sentence of the court....hey Tony....can I borrow your stripes (and your soap on a rope :D )...seems like I'll be needing them :( . Is it at all possible that I can appeal Ronaldo's sentence to just "elephant" :pp18:
Is it at all possible that I can appeal Ronaldo's sentence to just "elephant" :pp18:
I have no idea. I'm no longer a judge. I've been offered a place at Telecom.
off topic: Tony, Drucurl, I enjoy reading you guys a lot... even if you're a ManU and a Juve fans...
off topic: Tony, Drucurl, I enjoy reading you guys a lot... even if you're a ManU and a Juve fans... that was plain mean :nervous:
Blacktop
17-04-2007, 19:52
that was plain mean :nervous:
Don't you insult my Drucurl... *hugs* :D
curry chicken
17-04-2007, 20:06
A week left to go...and look at you guys and your drama. I love it! :grinser: :grinser:
Don't you insult my Drucurl... *hugs* :D Thank you very much my sweet BMWTaylor and yes I'm a huuuuuuge fan of that "useless cowardly giant" too :respect:
Thanks guys. Glad you enjoyed it!
Someone has to talk up our chances. The press has barely mentioned us.
Someone??? :bri: Perhaps you've been busy with your own website. :bri: While many were just throwing a tissy just a few weeks ago, I was always talking up our chances. Glad to know you threw your hat in the ring as well! :5ok: I'll say again, we will be lifting this years 2007 UEFA CL Cup in Athens.
Last time milan won was in Manchester in 2003. Maldini lifted the cup that his dad also lifted 40 years before that in the same Manchester stadium..
This year the final will be in Athens.. and guess what, the last CL final that was played in Athens was 1994, Milan x Barcelona. We were HEAVY underdogs against Romario/Stoichkov and co, especially that Baresi was out injured and we didnt have our Van Basten. The odds for the game were not on who wins, but on the difference of goals that Barca will win. That game ended 4-0 to Milan. Maldini was there as a youngster and won his 3rd CL.
13 years later, and we're 2 games away from another CL final in Athens, possibly Maldini's last chance to win a cup in his career (as a player :)).. We italian fans love superstition and statistics..If milan reach this final it will be his 8th CL final!!!!! and if he manages to win it, it'll be his 5th CL title!!!! Im not sure but i dont think any player has ever played 8 finals and won 5 (if u exclude the 1950's when there was no ref, no offsides!)..
forza milan, bring back the cup with big ears back home :)
WOW! If someone woke up on the right side of nobody! LOL! I'm coming to like your new found optimism these days. I sure am confident on my side. I know we will lift that trophy. I dont know if I should hold my breath on your new found optimism though? :uhm:
Hasan Rossonero
19-04-2007, 06:28
Someone??? :bri: Perhaps you've been busy with your own website. :bri: While many were just throwing a tissy just a few weeks ago, I was always talking up our chances. Glad to know you threw your hat in the ring as well! :5ok: I'll say again, we will be lifting this years 2007 UEFA CL Cup in Athens.
Admittedly, I haven't been that regular here due to various commitments, but I have noticed that you have been optimistic of our chances (as always).
Also, after the 2-2 draw with Bayern, I said we would win 2-0 or 3-1 in Germany.
But I meant outside a forum. I.e. on a website in English, the talk has been Man U, Man U etc.
After the things I've read, we simply need to make Maldini win his 5th CL title!!! Im sure we can do it with the right play by our trio Ambro-Pirlo-Gattuso, and some solid finishing by Gila or Pippo. Dont be fuled by the media people, United is no stronger than Milan. Milan is the only team that can win CL any year, no matter what kind of form we are in.
What about C.Ronaldo?? Curva has a chant: "Ge-nna-rino Gattuso, ale! Gennarino Gattuso, aleee!! " :devf: :5chore:
hitmannq8
19-04-2007, 11:32
WOW! If someone woke up on the right side of nobody! LOL! I'm coming to like your new found optimism these days. I sure am confident on my side. I know we will lift that trophy. I dont know if I should hold my breath on your new found optimism though? :uhm:
hehe Kui i think its just a one-off post :P
i dont know why but im a bit more confident about the man utd game more than ne game in the last few yrs.. i like the fact that they are the favourites and we play home 2nd leg..
and btw i think u misunderstood..i wasnt sayin we will bring back the CL but im saying i hope so and we should so for those reasons..we certainly are second to no one, we have what it takes.. i just hope on that certain day Lady Luck doesn't stand against us..
Warro Bantan
19-04-2007, 11:44
I have no idea. I'm no longer a judge. I've been offered a place at Telecom.That one is a classic!!! :haha:
I have the same dream over and over and over again, every single night.
It says the score line at Old Trafford
Manchester United 0 - 3 AC Milan. Im not even joking, kinda weird eh?
Stezagud
19-04-2007, 12:26
I have the same dream over and over and over again, every single night.
It says the score line at Old Trafford
Manchester United 0 - 3 AC Milan. Im not even joking, kinda weird eh?
Thats not actually as far fetched as it sounds, Utd's defence has been decimated recently, against Sheffield we didnt have 1 of our first choice available and ended up with 2 reserve midfielders at fullback and an 18 year old youth player on standby. Hopefully VDS, Rio, Evra and maybe Neville will be back for Milan but none of them will be 100%
Warro Bantan
19-04-2007, 12:33
Stez, they would have to be 200% to be able to stop us..and u kno this :D
Warro Bantan
19-04-2007, 12:35
Oh and Milancelotti, may your dreams come tru!!!
hitmannq8
19-04-2007, 15:04
I hope not! Milan isnt the best team in keeping 3-goal leads, I prefer winning by a goal or even drawing with 2 goals so our boys keep their heads up in the second leg.
I hope not! Milan isnt the best team in keeping 3-goal leads, I prefer winning by a goal or even drawing with 2 goals so our boys keep their heads up in the second leg.
lol, tru 3 must be the un-lucky number for us
Blacktop
19-04-2007, 17:29
Thank you very much my sweet BMWTaylor and yes I'm a huuuuuuge fan of that "useless cowardly giant" too :respect:
I left a post for you yesterday in the Gila thread. If you haven't seen it yet, you might like it. :)
milanista03
19-04-2007, 23:50
Wow! In this case Pireloke, I will apologise to you right now. Seriously... I was foolishly trying to chastise you for not being behind this team. With your explanation of "what has changed" for you after Instanbul, I now see where you are coming from. Your take on "zero expectation" of this team now makes sense in light of your trauma.
I have a similar yet slight different attitude than you have. I always hope for the best, but also with zero expectation. So if the case happens that we lose, I'm not disappointed and also feel we can and will do better the next time around. If not, perhaps the next time around. Those times which we do hit the summit above the skies, I hold it dearly and savor the moment with the full expectation that perhaps our stay there might not be long. I try to enjoy the low points as well as the high points of this team's story. Remember that Milan is not only a football club, but also a great STORY that much is yet to be read, seen, or told. Who knows what will happen in the next chapter? Just know this... the STORY goes on and a great one it is.
FORZA MILAN!
Kui, you're my man!! :sweeteye: I was pesimistic myself at the beginning of this season in our team ( that's why i looked for comfort in MM). I even thought not to watch the game. (me... who is absent watching the game only less than two handful fingers for almost twelve years...( well, whenever they were broadcasted, even if they were not, I watch the other game to find out the result. (we have Serie A in Indonesia and topchart usualy broadcasted live)) and suddenly ONLY this season my stats doubled). I was pessimistic for Milan second legs in muenchn and tried to look for comfort here, when I saw more pessimistic fans than me. That's the time when I said to my self to stand up and face whatever the result is. Milan is better than a lost in Muenchen, or even Final Cl. They are Milan. I couldn help it. I am a fan, a freak or whatever you call it.
Whenever they play their game, if they can face their opponent, so do i as the fan. I remember when Milan won their scudetto with zacheroni. At that time we got beaten by Fiorentina 5-0. When we got 3-0, my friend already left it and I was tempted to turn off the TV, but the feeling that some other people do this and how could i call my self a fan if i can't bear it, made me stay and watched the game until the very end. The Pool game made me piss off for almost more than a month. It did like some one took your heart out when you're still alive. I kept wondering, how did that happen, or am i dreaming.... But the picture of Maldini looking sad on the pitch ... brings back my sanity... This is only the price I should pay for being a milanista.
I did have my gloomy moments as a fan. When we were accused for Moggiopoli.. It got me mixed up. (Thanks to you MM, I stay). Right now... I do feel anxious and excited for the game. All of your analysa and theory and comments, made me like that even more. But... what can I say.. I'am only a fan... Let's hope for the best... And even if we lost (God forbid!) we are still Milan...
:diablo:
Forza Milan
hehe Kui i think its just a one-off post :P
i dont know why but im a bit more confident about the man utd game more than ne game in the last few yrs.. i like the fact that they are the favourites and we play home 2nd leg..
and btw i think u misunderstood..i wasnt sayin we will bring back the CL but im saying i hope so and we should so for those reasons..we certainly are second to no one, we have what it takes.. i just hope on that certain day Lady Luck doesn't stand against us..
LOL! LIAR! LOL!
They've finally played up to your expectation and gave you that long awaited glimmer of hope. Of course you and I know that can change on a whim.
Lady Luck may be what it is. I see it more so as a trend and my instincts tell me that since March, it was wise to "go long" on Milan. If there was a convergence of right place and right timing, nothing could have been more dramatic and beautiful as what we are witnessing right now. YES... nothing is for sure. I know that. Yet I'll always keep that belief alive that we are the 2007 UEFA Champion's League winners.
I hope hitmannq8 that you havent written your 1-off post. More is sure to come!
FORZA MILAN!
Kui, you're my man!! :sweeteye:
:pp20: Thanks Friend! :pp20: I'm quite flattered.
MM is made up of quite a diverse group of people and opinions. Sometimes we may read things that we dont like. Yet every opinion whether we like them or not makes this site what it is... WONDERFUL!
Glad you found us here. May your stay here be long! Just keep in mind of the rules and not to break them.
Thanks for choosing MilanMania!
FORZA MILAN!
Blacktop
20-04-2007, 16:54
MM is made up of quite a diverse group of people and opinions. Sometimes we may read things that we dont like. Yet every opinion whether we like them or not makes this site what it is... WONDERFUL!
And, you guys are - gasp - actually CIVIL to each other! Case in point, I read the VT shooting thread here yesterday. In contrast, we had to close ours twice.
And match threads here are CERTAINLY better to read than other places. So much whining elsewhere.
curry chicken
20-04-2007, 19:38
Do I detect a GROUP HUG, you guys? :hug:
Anyone going to see the game live? And more importantly, anyone planning on going to the second-leg at the San Siro?
ginoformaggino
20-04-2007, 20:10
Last time milan won was in Manchester in 2003.
This year the final will be in Athens...
and guess what, the last CL final that was played in Athens was 1994,
Milan x Barcelona.
Maldini was there as a youngster and won his 3rd CL.
We italian fans love superstition and statistics..
forza milan, bring back the cup with big ears back home :)
superstition? ..... :rolleyes:
:pp20: yes! :5ok:
Cudicini;
Malatrasi, Anquilletti, Schnellinger, Rosato,
Trappattoni; Lodetti,
Rivera;
Hamrin, Sormani, Prati
28/05/1969 Milan-Ajax 4-1
15/05/1969 Manchester United-Milan 1-0
70' B. Charlton
At Old Trafford terrible fight, ManUtd won the Cup for the first time 1 year before,
they are the Busby babies.
Stiles, Charlton, Best, Kidd, not common players....
Dennis Law broke Rivera leg during the first half and our keeper,
the black spider, Fabio Cudicini fainted, hit by some objects from the stands
we played on april 23, tuesday is 24
even if you change the order of the factors, result doesn't change
23/04/1969 Milan-Manchester United 2-0 :5ok:
33' Angelo Benedicto Sormani
49' Kurt Hamrin
12/03/1969 Glasgow Celtic -Milan 0-1
19/02/1969 Milan-Glasgow Celtic 0-0
02/10/1968 Milan-Malmoe FF 4-1
18/09/1968 Malmoe FF-Milan 2-1
take a look... after Celtic, the Mancunians again :diablo:
Rio Ferdinand is out for 2 weeks after injuring his groin again against M'boro this evening. I guess he could miss the return leg aswell, but we'll see.
hitmannq8
21-04-2007, 15:35
Do I detect a GROUP HUG, you guys? :hug:
Anyone going to see the game live? And more importantly, anyone planning on going to the second-leg at the San Siro?
Yes, i already booked a flight n hotel.
Im going to San Siro game I just didnt find match tickets yet, im waiting for Diavolo to reply me. He's the one whos helping me find the tickets, but does anyone else know how to get them? I want to know how I can buy them online..
And about the game: I didnt like Oddo's performances in the CL so far, I hope he manages to handle Giggs/Ronaldo. Janku is also a worry but I would prefer him 100 times over Kaladze. What really gives me confidence is that Nesta said something like "we know how good Ronaldo is and know how to stop him" which is just a polite way of saying "you're mine Ronaldo".. and when Nesta wants to mark a player out, the player wishes he never existed! :devf:
FORZA MILAN! WE"RE OFF TO OT! :)
curry chicken
21-04-2007, 15:45
I hope you have the time of your life hitmann! Bring back some pictures eh? And a full write-up of your experience, nothing less.
Speaking of Nesta, he also said that making it to another final would be "like a revenge for everybody". :devil:
Let's just not get ourselves sent-off all right? :zany:
zlatanov
21-04-2007, 16:29
Rio Ferdinand is out for 2 weeks after injuring his groin again against M'boro this evening. I guess he could miss the return leg aswell, but we'll see.
I guess the ManU medical staff will get a bunch of frowns from SAF as Ferdinand had gotten a slight injury to the groin in that game vs Portsmouth, I think, and I guess his return to the field was a bit too quick and now he's agrevated what initially was a minor injury.
btw, if he is out for 2 weeks, then he will almost surely miss the return leg at SS because that game is only a week after the game at OT.
I'll probably go to the match also, maybe we can all get together in front of the San Siro...
Yes, he's out for at least 2 weeks. Ferguson said it himself.
Also, Richardson and some anonimous youngster got injured today while Vidic, Park, Neville and Saha are injured for a while so , according to Alex F. , ManU has only 12 fit players ( although i counted at least 14 :rolleyes:. Maybe he didn't count the keepers ? )
I guess they'll have this on Tuesday ( Steza's starting XI prediction will be much more reliable, of course) :
Van der sar - Fletcher (O'shea), Brown, Heinze, Evra ; Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Smith ( Solskjaer)
I see a problem on the right back side. Both Fletcher and O'Shea can play right backs but for none of them it's an original position. Heinze can do it as a CD but isn't his original position LB ??
The rest is OK , but there aren't any options at midfield if some of the midfielders gets injured, tyred or plays bad.
Stez ? Is this correct or i'm missing smthg ?
zlatanov
21-04-2007, 16:54
I think Neville could return for the Milan game or at least make iton the bench ... would expect him to be rusty though after a long absence.
As for Heinze, he regularly plays CD for argentina NT and is very, very good in that position, so while ManU do have some big problems and absences in defense, they can still play a pretty good backline on Tuesday with either Oshea or Brown partnering Heinze in CD and Evra at LB.
Warro Bantan
21-04-2007, 16:58
This is why I will forever consider Zacceroni, Zaccerphony:Click here (http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200607/story/0,,2062747,00.html)
TRAITOR!!! How could he? Not that Alex isnt an astute enough coach to figure this out himself, but he certainly doesnt need any help!
Pah! What a waste of human reproduction Zaccerphony is! :d55:
We are going to Athens, I can emphatically state that Milan is going to beat Manchester in both legs. It will be a tough tussle but we will prevail. Last year I was resigned to defeat against Barca. There is a certain feeling, an aura, a swagger about this team. In last 4 games, the team has improved in leaps and bounds;the passing, the tactical awareness, the feeling that they can turn it on at any point in the game.
This team is equally as good as the team that suffered in Istanbul.
See you Tuesday,
Forza Milan!
curry chicken
21-04-2007, 17:05
"...aristocrats of Milan." I like the sound of that. Aristocrats with devil horns on their heads, that is. Thanks for the link Warro!
Gotta agree with what Zac says about our set-piece defending though. :nervous:
I think Neville could return for the Milan game or at least make iton the bench ... would expect him to be rusty though after a long absence.
As for Heinze, he regularly plays CD for argentina NT and is very, very good in that position, so while ManU do have some big problems and absences in defense, they can still play a pretty good backline on Tuesday with either Oshea or Brown partnering Heinze in CD and Evra at LB.
All this is true, but the squad depth is a huge problem for ManU. It's almost mission impossibile to fight for a trophy on 3 fronts with only 12-14 players.
I'll be honest and say i wish they'll go to Athens, but i rate their chances at 40% max.
Milan is the favourite in this tie, imo !
zlatanov
21-04-2007, 17:29
This is why I will forever consider Zacceroni, Zaccerphony:Click here (http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200607/story/0,,2062747,00.html)
TRAITOR!!! How could he? Not that Alex isnt an astute enough coach to figure this out himself, but he certainly doesnt need any help!
Pah! What a waste of human reproduction Zaccerphony is! :d55:
Unnecessary comments by our former coach, I think.
Zac is showing lack of class IMO and I don't think there is need for it as the "advice" he gives SAF is something a kid can come up with on its own, so I am sure SAF has thought of that already ... at least in theory as putting words and ideas into practice takes a little bit more than a wish.
Zac is just feeling a little forgotten these day and is just using the spotlight of this game to remind us of himself ... and probably some club's president might get impressed by all that knowledge of his, so who knows, maybe a new job for good old Zac is just around the corner ;)
Blacktop
21-04-2007, 17:34
I don't know about you, but I really DON'T want Kalac on Tuesday (except maybe mzk). I want a giant-goalie duel between Dida and VDS. :)
zlatanov
21-04-2007, 17:39
I don't know about you, but I really DON'T want Kalac on Tuesday (except maybe mzk). I want a giant-goalie duel between Dida and VDS. :)
I think Kalac would be just fine ... he is not a bad keeper at all with the only real minus I see in him is that he is a bit too clumsy in coming off his goalline and "cleanly" stealing the ball from the onrushing player.
I do think however that using Kalac could have it's advantages vs ManU as he is pretty solid in the air and given all the crosses that will be headed our way, he would provide a massive obstacle in the small PA with his height and upper body strength.
All in all, if DIda is healthy, I would pick him to start but if he isn't I wouldn't worry too much with Kalac in goal.
Milan_Mad
21-04-2007, 17:53
Man utd back four will be something like
Fletcher O'Shea Brown Heinze
we should attack attack!
After watching the highlights of todays game with Boro I can honestly say they can be beaten, the team is not some kind of superior team as they struggled today and honestly Boro deserved to win, however we must attack them and surprise them.
Dr Milano
21-04-2007, 18:18
Man utd back four will be something like
Fletcher O'Shea Brown Heinze
we should attack attack!
LOL to be honest 3 of my 4 fav players for man united are in there !!
fletcher - o shea - brown the other being richardson :grinser:
I think Neville could return for the Milan game or at least make iton the bench ... would expect him to be rusty though after a long absence.
As for Heinze, he regularly plays CD for argentina NT and is very, very good in that position, so while ManU do have some big problems and absences in defense, they can still play a pretty good backline on Tuesday with either Oshea or Brown partnering Heinze in CD and Evra at LB.
I see heinze in CD and i think of penalty for us. :p017: Heinze is too agressive for his own good and when you play against kaka, you surely don't want to react that way. kaka has a habit of making his opponents get yellow and Heinze in CD. :grinser:
remote2book
22-04-2007, 01:16
rio ferndinend .......wont be able to play for both legs....SOCRING GOALS!!!!! IS WAT WE NEEDD TO DOOO!!!!!!! ALL OF THEIR DEFENDERS R OUT!!!! DAMNITTTT
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 04:01
We are going to Athens, I can emphatically state that Milan is going to beat Manchester in both legs. It will be a tough tussle but we will prevail. Last year I was resigned to defeat against Barca. There is a certain feeling, an aura, a swagger about this team. In last 4 games, the team has improved in leaps and bounds;the passing, the tactical awareness, the feeling that they can turn it on at any point in the game.
This team is equally as good as the team that suffered in Istanbul.
See you Tuesday,
Forza Milan!
I smell a bit too much confidence here, yes we're without Vidic, Ferdinand and Neville, and lets face it with them you wouldn't stand a chance, but Brown is a good CB who's injury's are the only reason he isn't a world class one, Heinze plays CB for Argentina, Evra should be back and fletcher is a solid player who can do a job at RB, and if you doubt the threat we pose up front give Panucci, Mexes and Chivu a call and see what they think.
I smell a bit too much confidence here, yes we're without Vidic, Ferdinand and Neville, and lets face it with them you wouldn't stand a chance, but Brown is a good CB who's injury's are the only reason he isn't a world class one, Heinze plays CB for Argentina, Evra should be back and fletcher is a solid player who can do a job at RB, and if you doubt the threat we pose up front give Panucci, Mexes and Chivu a call and see what they think.
:devf: Man U fans are a bunch of jokers, 1 good game and that is what they would hum on forever. While your Man U players are caught up in the cloud up there, Milan will squash all your hopes. can't even beat boro with most of the first 11, what can you guys do? :grinser:
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 04:28
:devf: Man U fans are a bunch of jokers, 1 good game and that is what they would hum on forever.
its 3 weeks ago, still pretty recent. Now if I was constantly going on about a CL match 2 years ago and using that as evidence of how we were going to beat you then that would be different...
While your Man U players are caught up in the cloud up there, Milan will squash all your hopes. can't even beat boro with most of the first 11, what can you guys do? :grinser:
Vidic, Rio (for 50 minutes), Neville, Evra, Giggs (for the first 45) Saha all out, not very good with numbers eh?
Every team has poor games, we still managed a draw against a decent team, although no where near CL standard.
You just better pray Ronaldo and Rooney are in the same mood on Tues than they were yesterday, although somehow I think they'll find it a bit easier to motivate themselves for a CL semi than a league match...
I smell a bit too much confidence here, yes we're without Vidic, Ferdinand and Neville, and lets face it with them you wouldn't stand a chance, but Brown is a good CB who's injury's are the only reason he isn't a world class one, Heinze plays CB for Argentina, Evra should be back and fletcher is a solid player who can do a job at RB, and if you doubt the threat we pose up front give Panucci, Mexes and Chivu a call and see what they think.
Personally i don't like it when people are far too confident or arrogant, regardless of who they support. It usually has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass. That aside, have to disagree completely about Brown, injuries aren't the reason he's not world class, skill is the reason he's not world class. He's far too inconsistent and is prone to big lapses in concentration. Yes he's improved but he's nothing more than a squad player.
You have to admit that Heinze is a rash player, we all know he's a solid defender with a wealth of experience, but at cb he's far more likely to make a costly mistake than at LB.
Most of the Man Utd fans i know don't rate Fletcher at all and now he's suddenly a solid RB? Come on, be honest, he's not very good at RB. He doesn't offer much defensive stability and it goes without saying he's not as imposing offensively as Neville.
Why on earth would we want to call Mexes, Panucci and Chivu? They all had shocking games, a pub team could have scored against them while their heads were in that much confusion :grinser: As people are still pointing out, we have some old defenders, but with that comes more experience and knowledge of defending than possibly any other team around at the moment. So i think we'll have our own ideas on how to try and stop your attackers. I won't say we will stop them as you can never be certain what will happen, but if we do our best and track the runners then we have a chance.
although somehow I think they'll find it a bit easier to motivate themselves for a CL semi than a league match...
This i find an interesting statement. You do realise you're still fighting for the Premiership right? You should have been 100% focused on M'boro with a view to wrapping up the title before you have to play Chelsea. You've now let them back in because you weren't motivated enough. In all honesty you were lucky to get a point, that was a blatant penalty at the end, but somehow you got away with it.
I wouldn't worry too much about what Zac says, Man Utd will have their tactics about how to win the game and we'll have ours. I think what Ancelotti has said is right, they're very strong but predictable (though i think most football teams are predictable anyway), they'll come out of the traps at 100 mph and try to batter us like they did against Roma, hoping to get some quick goals and then capitalise on the uncertainty that those quick goals will bring. From there they'll look to break all the time and play on the counter-attack.
They have many dangerous runners and if we can be watchful of them, double up on players where necessary and not have the recent defensive lapses we've suffered from then we have the chance to get a result. May the best team win, which i hope is us :devf:
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 05:16
Personally i don't like it when people are far too confident or arrogant, regardless of who they support. It usually has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass. That aside, have to disagree completely about Brown, injuries aren't the reason he's not world class, skill is the reason he's not world class. He's far too inconsistent and is prone to big lapses in concentration. Yes he's improved but he's nothing more than a squad player.
he was actually tipped for the top when he first broke through and the only thing thats stopped him is every time he gets a run in the team he gets injured, that is the only reason Vidic was bought, when ever he's had a run in the team he's played well and isn't prone to mistakes, he's just prone to injuries.
You have to admit that Heinze is a rash player, we all know he's a solid defender with a wealth of experience, but at cb he's far more likely to make a costly mistake than at LB.
I don't have to admit anything, he's not the type of CB you see in Serie A every week but that doesn't mean he's rash, he's a solid defender who takes no rubbish and I think he'll do fine against inzaghi or Gillardino.
Most of the Man Utd fans i know don't rate Fletcher at all and now he's suddenly a solid RB? Come on, be honest, he's not very good at RB. He doesn't offer much defensive stability and it goes without saying he's not as imposing offensively as Neville.
Fletcher has had a difficult couple of years, at 16 he was hailed as one of the best prospects the club has ever had, better than giggs was at that age (although different positions) he then got a major injury and missed 2/3 years of development, he has had 2 years of being played out of position or in position alongside an aging Keane or an out of form Scholes, this season he's been turning it around, against Roma he was awesome and at RB for the last 3 games (the only time in his life he's played there) he's only been caught out of position once, I know Milan are a different prospect but still he'll do his job.
Why on earth would we want to call Mexes, Panucci and Chivu? They all had shocking games, a pub team could have scored against them while their heads were in that much confusion :grinser: As people are still pointing out, we have some old defenders, but with that comes more experience and knowledge of defending than possibly any other team around at the moment. So i think we'll have our own ideas on how to try and stop your attackers. I won't say we will stop them as you can never be certain what will happen, but if we do our best and track the runners then we have a chance.
the confusion was caused by our players, was just a coincidence that all of roma's defenders had poor games? you are right, positionally your defence will be a different prospect, but if Ronaldo starts dropping deep and running at them with his pace and skill, I think they'll find experience is no substitute for having the pace to keep up with him.
This i find an interesting statement. You do realise you're still fighting for the Premiership right? You should have been 100% focused on M'boro with a view to wrapping up the title before you have to play Chelsea. You've now let them back in because you weren't motivated enough. In all honesty you were lucky to get a point, that was a blatant penalty at the end, but somehow you got away with it.
Are you telling me your players won't be more motivated against us than they were against cagliari? I would hope they are, no matter what's at stake its always easier to motivate yourself against a big team than a small team, Boro have a history of causing us problems anyway, stemming from our former assistant manager being their manager and knowing our players inside out.
I wouldn't worry too much about what Zac says, Man Utd will have their tactics about how to win the game and we'll have ours. I think what Ancelotti has said is right, they're very strong but predictable (though i think most football teams are predictable anyway), they'll come out of the traps at 100 mph and try to batter us like they did against Roma, hoping to get some quick goals and then capitalise on the uncertainty that those quick goals will bring. From there they'll look to break all the time and play on the counter-attack.
They have many dangerous runners and if we can be watchful of them, double up on players where necessary and not have the recent defensive lapses we've suffered from then we have the chance to get a result. May the best team win, which i hope is us :devf:
we can play the game quick or slow, we have pace on the wings and up front but have precise passers in midfield, I think you'll find that although the goals coming on the break against Roma were the most spectacular, we also had plenty were we picked them apart like a lock. I think you view us as one dimensional with Rooney and Ronaldo's pace, you couldn't be more wrong, Scholes and Carrick are intelligent footballers who can control the tempo and pace with their passing and postional play, smith is a brute up front who will reish the physical stuff, rooney is a monster and ronaldo is simply astonishing when in full flow, while Giggs is turning into a very good support striker.
Are you telling me your players won't be more motivated against us than they were against cagliari? I would hope they are, no matter what's at stake its always easier to motivate yourself against a big team than a small team.
But we're not playing for the Serie A title. You're playing for the Premiership crown, the chance to win the league, the competition Ferguson has admitted is the most important to him. You surely have to be motivated to get the 3 points in these games regardless of the team you're facing.
I think you view us as one dimensional with Rooney and Ronaldo's pace, you couldn't be more wrong, Scholes and Carrick are intelligent footballers who can control the tempo and pace with their passing and postional play.
Have i said you're one dimensional? No, i don't think i have. You play to your strengths, as most teams do, and your strength and main weapon is picking out the runs of Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney or whoever and breaking fast. I don't doubt you can play possesion football, but it's not your main style of play is it. That's all i'm saying.
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 05:35
But we're not playing for the Serie A title. You're playing for the Premiership crown, the chance to win the league, the competition Ferguson has admitted is the most important to him. You surely have to be motivated to get the 3 points in these games regardless of the team you're facing.
Have i said you're one dimensional? No, i don't think i have. You play to your strengths, as most teams do, and your strength and main weapon is picking out the runs of Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney or whoever and breaking fast. I don't doubt you can play possesion football, but it's not your main style of play is it. That's all i'm saying.
teams do it all the time, last season when we were chasing chelsea a sunderland team who were already relegated came to OT and defended better than you will tomorrow (no matter what the result) they had nothing to play for they were just motivated by the opposition, its human nature
fair enough, seriously I think Vidic and Rio being out has seriously weakened us at the back, they've been top class this season and no matter how much I want to talk up Brown and Heinze and believe we can do it we just aren't as solid at the back.
I think the worst thing you could do is come to OT and try to defend, you have to go for the throat against us with our defence the way it is, if you try and sit back I think we'll take a good lead to the san siro
Here is the 25 man squad called up for the match on Tuesday.
Milan squad:
Dida, Kalac, Fiori, Storari; Bonera,
Cafu, Costacurta, Favalli, Jankulovski, Kaladze, Maldini, Nesta, Oddo, Serginho, Simic;
Ambrosini, Brocchi, Gattuso, Gourcuff, Kakā, Pirlo, Seedorf;
Gilardino, Inzaghi, Ricardo Oliveira
teams do it all the time, last season when we were chasing chelsea a sunderland team who were already relegated came to OT and defended better than you will tomorrow (no matter what the result) they had nothing to play for they were just motivated by the opposition, its human nature
Yeah, we played fairly well for once - or should I say Kelvin Davis played well for once.
Anyway, it's good Milan have a full squad to choose from, I guess it's good that Dida is available.
I'm not sure Dida is 100% fit with his shoulder injury, i think they're just including him to give him enough time to see if it will heal and leave any decision to the last minute.
its 3 weeks ago, still pretty recent. Now if I was constantly going on about a CL match 2 years ago and using that as evidence of how we were going to beat you then that would be different...
because you guys don't even have any UCL matches to hum on for the past 8 years. Even the CL won 8 years back is with a huge amount of luck. Try harder next time. :grinser:
curry chicken
22-04-2007, 12:08
If anyone's interested or bored...here's Wee Gordon Strachan's (Celtic coach) take on the match:STOP THIS MAN (http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/sport/football/tm_headline=stop-this-man&method=full&objectid=18944157&siteid=98487-name_page.html)
"Manchester United are a far more exciting team than AC Milan. It will be a close-run thing but United have got the players to do it. But AC Milan have got an incredible determination not to be beaten. That's what really struck me in our tie with them....
This is turning into Ron vs. Ricky. Some quotes from Fergie on Man. Utd's growth since 2005 and Kaka: FERGIE: RON WILL OUTSHINE KAKA (http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=football--fergie--ron-will-outshine-kaka--&method=full&objectid=18944270&siteid=93463-name_page.html)
Oh..one more: 'RAZOR' TIPS UNITED TO BEAT MILAN (http://www.redissue.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=335098)
Love this quote from Kaka, that sums it all up:
"Manchester United are a great team, but Milan are not afraid of any side in the world. We respect them yes, but we are not afraid. We have a tremendous record in the Champions League. We have played 10 finals and won six. Our semi-finals with United will be as good as any knockout games you could wish to see."
I see heinze in CD and i think of penalty for us. :p017:
I see Wes Brown in CD and i think of an own goal :5nana:
teams do it all the time, last season when we were chasing chelsea a sunderland team who were already relegated came to OT and defended better than you will tomorrow (no matter what the result) they had nothing to play for they were just motivated by the opposition, its human nature
You can see how well your opponents are defending before they play. I am sure you must be rich, the best pundit in the world. :5ok: Do you want to meet our own resident "best pundit in the world" Zeekay? :grinser:
Kaka':"Paolo Maldini has insisted that he wants to lift one more trophy and at his age his teammates do not want to let down the captain of Milan."
If Capitano said so, then it will be like that! :diablo:
Ferguson can go on about Ronaldo as much as he wants, but KAka' said it right, and it showes we are ready tactically: " there are 10 other players on the field..." We just need to stay on the ground and play calm football, we have our ways of progressing....
I see Wes Brown in CD and i think of an own goal :5nana:
Oh he does have a rich history of own goals. :grinser:
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 12:20
because you guys don't even have any UCL matches to hum on for the past 8 years. Even the CL won 8 years back is with a huge amount of luck. Try harder next time. :grinser:
we beat Bayern in the final despite being without Keane and Scholes (both suspended), how would you do on tues without pirlo and gatusso?
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 12:26
You can see how well your opponents are defending before they play. I am sure you must be rich, the best pundit in the world. :5ok: Do you want to meet our own resident "best pundit in the world" Zeekay? :grinser:
it has its draw backs, always being right that is, but you learn to live with the pressure
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 12:28
Kaka':"Paolo Maldini has insisted that he wants to lift one more trophy and at his age his teammates do not want to let down the captain of Milan."
If Capitano said so, then it will be like that! :diablo:
Ferguson can go on about Ronaldo as much as he wants, but KAka' said it right, and it showes we are ready tactically: " there are 10 other players on the field..." We just need to stay on the ground and play calm football, we have our ways of progressing....
so was it Maldini who bribed the appeal panel to let you have just enough of a points deduction to let you back into the CL? This after initially being relegated for being cheating so and so's, if you win the CL this year it will be a travesty for all the honest hard working clubs around the world.
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 12:31
Manchester United - fighting for all honest football teams around the world.
I think its only fitting that we should be handicapped by injury, after all most teams have been handicapped when they've played you in recent seasons haven't they...
All the people talking rubbish about Maldini should be banned from the internet forever...
Yes, all the teams were handicaped when playing us, especially Barca last year when Sheva scored at Camp Nou but somehow it was called a foul on Puyol that sliped and threw himself on the ground. And in Istanbul Liverpool was also handicaped when Sheva scored 4th goal but was called offside aldough it was clean, when Hypia deserved a red card and got only yellow in the second half...
I hope we score in 95th minute from a set piece so you can say you dont have any luck and we are priviledged and so on...
King tiger
22-04-2007, 12:57
omg p ps sock just made 4 consecutive posts .
world record.
Well, Mrki, to be honest, i do remember few teams missing their best players when playing against you in CL.
Van der Vaart on Milan-Ajax in 2003
Vieri on Inter-Milan in 2003
Nedved and then Davids in CL final 2003
Juninho in Lyon last year
Van Bommel, Kahn in Milano and Schweinsteiger in Munich.
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 13:02
omg p ps sock just made 4 consecutive posts .
world record.
not really difficult on a quiet board with no time restriction between posts
curry chicken
22-04-2007, 13:04
so was it Maldini who bribed the appeal panel to let you have just enough of a points deduction to let you back into the CL? This after initially being relegated for being cheating so and so's, if you win the CL this year it will be a travesty for all the honest hard working clubs around the world.
Everybody knows AC Milan's philosophy by now. "You make-a with the coppa, we make-a with the cash."
Actually it was all Zlatanov. Maldini went to do the group draw, schmoozed with the officials, promised to take Platini out for dinner...to make it LOOK like he was bribing UEFA. But really, its' all ZLAT pulling the strings. He's a connected guy, so you better watch out. :grinser:
Kaka1899
22-04-2007, 13:05
i thought there was a 30 second time restriction?
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 13:11
i thought there was a 30 second time restriction?
there probably is its just I haven't posted that quickly yet
there probably is its just I haven't posted that quickly yet
There's a 1 minute restriction between posts.
It is clear you know nothing about the match fixing scandal, so it's probably in your best interests to stop talking about it as all your doing is making yourself look ignorant and a bit stupid. But if you wish to continue then please do so, we're all enjoying how foolish you sound in regards this topic.
Well, Mrki, to be honest, i do remember few teams missing their best players when playing against you in CL.
Van der Vaart on Milan-Ajax in 2003
Vieri on Inter-Milan in 2003
Nedved and then Davids in CL final 2003
Juninho in Lyon last year
Van Bommel, Kahn in Milano and Schweinsteiger in Munich.
Germany without Ballack in the WC 2002 final
Leverkusen with out Ballack in the finals
ManU without Keane 1999 :guw:
Tony, the post I was answering to was tlaking about how "teams were always hendicaped when playing Milan", and he ment that Milan is a club that steals and cheats in CL and shouldnt even be in the CL this year...that is what he was going for.
We were missing Pippo against Barca, and we all remember what we have missed in the San Siro game. Those things happen, its important to take care of your players before big CL matches, if someone doesnt know how to do it, its their fault.
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 13:34
There's a 1 minute restriction between posts.
It is clear you know nothing about the match fixing scandal, so it's probably in your best interests to stop talking about it as all your doing is making yourself look ignorant and a bit stupid. But if you wish to continue then please do so, we're all enjoying how foolish you sound in regards this topic.
only error so far was 'originally relegated', of course that should have read 'would have been relegated if you didn't have berlusconi pulling the strings'
Yes, all the teams were handicaped when playing us, especially Barca last year when Sheva scored at Camp Nou but somehow it was called a foul on Puyol that sliped and threw himself on the ground. And in Istanbul Liverpool was also handicaped when Sheva scored 4th goal but was called offside aldough it was clean, when Hypia deserved a red card and got only yellow in the second half...
Grrr ... bringing back bad memories again. Now I won't be able to sleep well ...
Blacktop
22-04-2007, 13:44
I'm not sure Dida is 100% fit with his shoulder injury, i think they're just including him to give him enough time to see if it will heal and leave any decision to the last minute.
Though he participated in regular training today, I'm sure it was nothing overly physical and he remains a game-time decision.
Kaka1899
22-04-2007, 13:45
only error so far was 'originally relegated', of course that should have read 'would have been relegated if you didn't have berlusconi pulling the strings'
Is this guy trying to get
A. Banned
B. Wind us up?
only error so far was 'originally relegated', of course that should have read 'would have been relegated if you didn't have berlusconi pulling the strings'
Oh now it's Berlusconi who's pulled the strings to keep us in Serie A? A few posts ago it was Maldini. Who will it be next? Kaka? Give me a break. You know nothing about this subject except the headlines you've read and now you think you're an expert. If you do know something about the match fixing scandals you're doing a good job of keeping that knowledge hidden.
Tell you what read the entire match fixing thread we have, all 188 pages and 2810 posts and then come back and we can talk about it properly.
Match fixing thread (http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20441)
After that you can read the smaller thread based on the new evidence in our Calciopoli II thread.
Calciopoli II thread (http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22321)
and finally to top it off i would suggest going to the milan section in the xtratime forums and finding their match fixing thread, read that and talk to a member called Diavolo. By then you may have actually learned something.
King tiger
22-04-2007, 14:16
the ref is gonna be kyros Vassaras, not very good choice imo. :D
hitmannq8
22-04-2007, 14:17
Guys, he follows the EPL what more do you want? give him a break will you!
p_ps_sock welcome to milanmania, we understand your problem and we accept all types of people here even handicapped people.. so dont be worried.. just feel free.. i know it has been hard all ur life living like that.. we are here to make sure u have a good time..
Hey guys when i say 3 everyone shout P_PS_SOCK IS THE BEST..
1......2.......3..... P_PS_SOCK IS THE BEST
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 14:37
Guys, he follows the EPL what more do you want? give him a break will you!
p_ps_sock welcome to milanmania, we understand your problem and we accept all types of people here even handicapped people.. so dont be worried.. just feel free.. i know it has been hard all ur life living like that.. we are here to make sure u have a good time..
Hey guys when i say 3 everyone shout P_PS_SOCK IS THE BEST..
1......2.......3..... P_PS_SOCK IS THE BEST
:dielaugh:
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 14:42
Oh now it's Berlusconi who's pulled the strings to keep us in Serie A? A few posts ago it was Maldini. Who will it be next? Kaka? Give me a break. You know nothing about this subject except the headlines you've read and now you think you're an expert. If you do know something about the match fixing scandals you're doing a good job of keeping that knowledge hidden.
Tell you what read the entire match fixing thread we have, all 188 pages and 2810 posts and then come back and we can talk about it properly.
Match fixing thread (http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20441)
After that you can read the smaller thread based on the new evidence in our Calciopoli II thread.
Calciopoli II thread (http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22321)
and finally to top it off i would suggest going to the milan section in the xtratime forums and finding their match fixing thread, read that and talk to a member called Diavolo. By then you may have actually learned something.
where did I say I'm an expert?
do you really expect me to read 188 pages?
as far as I know you and Juve had competing systems for influencing referee's, they had more on Juve than you so their punishment was harsher, still for any match fixing 8 point deduction is weak, you get more than that for going into administration over here...
Well if you're not an expert you sure talk about it alot and bring it into posts at almost any given opportunity.
Warro Bantan
22-04-2007, 14:54
The more u post, ppsock, the more ridiculous you get....initially, I found your posts to be drivel, then there was a slight improvement, and some that made actual sense...then, the quality just dipped precipitously....what happended? Had one drink too many?
Bro/Lass, whichever u are: listen, we have no issues with fans from our opposing teams, regardless of the competition, posting here, but please, go back to some of your more analytical, sensible posts, and stop the ranting....
Match fixing? Do you even know why we were faced with a penalty? What the so called evidence was? Nope..I dont think u do....but go on, continue to make Man U look like a club whose fans are buffoons.
Rayno_acm
22-04-2007, 14:59
where did I say I'm an expert?
do you really expect me to read 188 pages?
as far as I know you and Juve had competing systems for influencing referee's, they had more on Juve than you so their punishment was harsher, still for any match fixing 8 point deduction is weak, you get more than that for going into administration over here...
So I'm telling you, you don't know anything about it, so shut up if you don't want to look like a bigger idiot than you look so far... :stupid: :devf:
ACMILAN1983
22-04-2007, 15:00
There's a 1 minute restriction between posts.
It is clear you know nothing about the match fixing scandal, so it's probably in your best interests to stop talking about it as all your doing is making yourself look ignorant and a bit stupid. But if you wish to continue then please do so, we're all enjoying how foolish you sound in regards this topic.
Understatement to say the least ;)
p ps sock, I'm going to ask you to try and put what you want to say into single posts, because posting multiple times in a row is pointless.
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 15:03
The more u post, ppsock, the more ridiculous you get....initially, I found your posts to be drivel, then there was a slight improvement, and some that made actual sense...then, the quality just dipped precipitously....what happended? Had one drink too many?
Bro/Lass, whichever u are: listen, we have no issues with fans from our opposing teams, regardless of the competition, posting here, but please, go back to some of your more analytical, sensible posts, and stop the ranting....
Match fixing? Do you even know why we were faced with a penalty? What the so called evidence was? Nope..I dont think u do....but go on, continue to make Man U look like a club whose fans are buffoons.
well instead of posting generalisations enlighten me, was what I said not the allegation, were you and juve not both accused of doing what I said?
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 15:05
Understatement to say the least ;)
p ps sock, I'm going to ask you to try and put what you want to say into single posts, because posting multiple times in a row is pointless.
you can't edit your posts here though, so when I've posted I can't go back to it when I read something else
EDIT: well I can now but I didn't have an edit icon earlier ????
Warro Bantan
22-04-2007, 15:11
If u really think that I have nothing to do, and I have the time to go back and actually re-read some of the crap u have posted, then think again.
There are much more important things to do with my time.
Have a nice day though, and I hope that Man U win the EPL...and whatever other trophies that you are battling for domestically.....u wont win vs Milan, so its pointless wishing you luck for the UCL.
Cheers!
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 15:17
If u really think that I have nothing to do, and I have the time to go back and actually re-read some of the crap u have posted, then think again.
There are much more important things to do with my time.
Have a nice day though, and I hope that Man U win the EPL...and whatever other trophies that you are battling for domestically.....u wont win vs Milan, so its pointless wishing you luck for the UCL.
Cheers!
you can't call someone an idiot then say 'because you are', without any other convincing arguement I will continue to think of everything as I did before
Did thanks for the Good Luck Message, don't be too disappointed on Tuesday, you're team will get to play in a wonderful stadium in front of a great crowd, its an experience not to be missed so it won't be a wasted evening for your team and fans
zlatanov
22-04-2007, 15:52
Well, Mrki, to be honest, i do remember few teams missing their best players when playing against you in CL.
Van der Vaart on Milan-Ajax in 2003
Vieri on Inter-Milan in 2003
Nedved and then Davids in CL final 2003
Juninho in Lyon last year
Van Bommel, Kahn in Milano and Schweinsteiger in Munich.
or Milan playing without Billy and Baresi vs possibly the strongest attacking team of those years, Cruyff's Barca, in the 1994 CL final ... and winning 4-0 not leaving the slightest of chances to that great Barca team of Romario, Stoichkov, Laudrup and Koeman.
Maybe ManU fans should stop whining about missing Ferdinand and Vidic and take Milan as an example that if you really have it, if you really are a great team and not just a bunch of self-promoting overhypes riding the wave of one-seded British tabloids, nothing and no one could tell you otherwise ;).
p_ps_sock
22-04-2007, 15:55
or Milan playing without Billy and Baresi vs possibly the strongest attacking team of those years, Cruyff's Barca, in the 1994 CL final ... and winning 4-0 not leaving the slightest of chances to that great Barca team of Romario, Stoichkov, Laudrup and Koeman.
Maybe ManU fans should stop whining about missing Ferdinand and Vidic and take Milan as an example that if you really have it, if you really are a great team and not just a bunch of self-promoting overhypes riding the wave of one-seded British tabloids, nothing and no one could tell you otherwise ;).
were you without your first choice back 4?
you'll see just how over rated Ronaldo is on tuesday...
zlatanov
22-04-2007, 16:09
so was it Maldini who bribed the appeal panel to let you have just enough of a points deduction to let you back into the CL? This after initially being relegated for being cheating so and so's, if you win the CL this year it will be a travesty for all the honest hard working clubs around the world.
as other have told you already, you are talking about things that you simply know nothing about so it would be best to first educate yourself and then open your mouth.
Just for the record, Milan were never relegated to begin with ... the only dif that the appeal made for us was playing in CL thru the qualifiers vs no CL at all.
I am not gonna waste my time referring to whether Milan was justly punished or not but I guess in the next 10 days it would become clear on the field whether we have a place in CL or not and whether we are good enough to be where we are ... believe me, ManU will have to give their 2 best performances of the season - way better than those vs Roma if they are to even stand a chance of making it thru to the finals.
As for the game, I predict Milan will do the following - weathering the initail 10-15 min storm and then slowly but shurely taking control over the midfield and passing ManU players to death, slowing down the tempo of the game and taking manU players off their stride and comfort zone, while patiently waiting to strike them whenever we can.
ManU players will start getting nervous and impatient and will commit suicide by forgetting the meaning of two fundamental words for this level of football - "team play" and "patience" - and will throw themselves in fruitless attempts of trying to overcome Milan's defense and midfield with individual technique and speed, thus showing thieir lack of experience only to become an even easier prey for Milan's defense.
ManU will only prove that being "more experienced" than 2 years ago spells differently than being "experienced enough". ;)
Not sure if Milan will win but I am sure that Milan will tame and suffocate the ManU we all know from their EPL games i.e. Milan will have the game and their opponent under control.
Lets see if my prediction is right ;)
zlatanov
22-04-2007, 16:13
were you without your first choice back 4?
you'll see just how over rated Ronaldo is on tuesday...
no, but the heart of Milan's Central defense was missing and that was against the best team, the best attacking team of those years ... something you obviously don't see in Milan, so you shouldn't worry at all. ;)
Plus, ManU will most likely have Heinze and Evra at their disposal ... and maybe even Neville would make it ... either way, you are NOT missing all 4 first choice defenders, so don't try to play the victim here and start loking for excuses in case of a defeat ... at least wait till the two games are over then feel free to suggest whether it was Maldini or Carlo who bribed ManU doctors to rush the return of Ferdinand and aggrevate his injury ;)
zlatanov
22-04-2007, 16:19
you'll see just how over rated Ronaldo is on tuesday...
so if he playes great and demolishes Milan and runs circles around their grandpas at the back, he will prove that he is a great player, right?
in the same line of thinking, however, would you call him an overhyped kid if Milan hides the ball from him and make him look silly once again ... it's only fair, don't you think? ;)
so if he playes great and demolishes Milan and runs circles around their grandpas at the back, he will prove that he is a great player, right?
in the same line of thinking, however, would you call him an overhyped kid if Milan hides the ball from him and make him look silly once again ... it's only fair, don't you think? ;)
you'll see just how over rated Kaka` is on Tuesday... :bri: :bri: :bri:
zlatanov
22-04-2007, 16:26
you'll see just how over rated Kaka` is on Tuesday... :bri: :bri: :bri:
I don't need to see it, I already know he's one big 0 surrounded by a bunch of even bigger 0s ... :bri: :grinser:
Poor Milan, they are so going down the drain :nervous:
or Milan playing without Billy and Baresi vs possibly the strongest attacking team of those years, Cruyff's Barca, in the 1994 CL final ... and winning 4-0 not leaving the slightest of chances to that great Barca team of Romario, Stoichkov, Laudrup and Koeman.
Maybe ManU fans should stop whining about missing Ferdinand and Vidic and take Milan as an example that if you really have it, if you really are a great team and not just a bunch of self-promoting overhypes riding the wave of one-seded British tabloids, nothing and no one could tell you otherwise ;).
Shut up Zlat and don't ruin my perfect argument how Milan is the luckiest team of all time in the universe :mad:
But spot on :5ok:
What you just said is soooo true.
One or 2 players missing, even if they are the best you have, shouldn't mean much to a great team.
All 25 players make the team a great one and a champion, not just the 2 or 3 star players !
Still, you're lucky bastards ( my signature doesn't aply when we talk about Milan's luck )
Oh, and btw...
Roma finished 5th last year and originally they should have played UEFA Cup, not CL.
They are the ones that didn't deserve to play CL because they weren't good enough to get in top4.
So, technically, Manchester United was privileged to play against an "UEFA Cup team", not against a Champions league material.
Talking about luck.....
Right ? :rolleyes:
:bri:
:devf:
zlatanov
22-04-2007, 17:08
Shut up Zlat and don't ruin my perfect argument how Milan is the luckiest team of all time in the universe :mad:
oh, OK, sorry for ruining your moment :nervous:
ManU fans please continue with the excuses :diablo:
Still, you're lucky bastards ( my signature doesn't aply when we talk about Milan's luck )
maybe you should edit your siggy then so that others don't get fooled :grinser:
Oh, and btw...
Roma finished 5th last year and originally they should have played UEFA Cup, not CL.
They are the ones that didn't deserve to play CL because they weren't good enough to get in top4.
So, technically, Manchester United was privileged to play against an "UEFA Cup team", not against a Champions league material.
Talking about luck.....
Right ? :rolleyes:
:bri:
:devf:
now you are talking :diablo:
p_ps_sock
23-04-2007, 00:40
no, but the heart of Milan's Central defense was missing and that was against the best team, the best attacking team of those years ... something you obviously don't see in Milan, so you shouldn't worry at all. ;)
Plus, ManU will most likely have Heinze and Evra at their disposal ... and maybe even Neville would make it ... either way, you are NOT missing all 4 first choice defenders, so don't try to play the victim here and start loking for excuses in case of a defeat ... at least wait till the two games are over then feel free to suggest whether it was Maldini or Carlo who bribed ManU doctors to rush the return of Ferdinand and aggrevate his injury ;)
Rio Vidic Neville (definately out until at least the weekend) and possibly Evra (touch and go) thats been or first choice defence this season, if evra makes it then its 3, if not then all 4 first choice defenders are out.
Ferdinand wasn't rushed back, he was actually only rested from our midweek game last week as a precaution, its just one of those things.
p_ps_sock
23-04-2007, 00:45
Oh, and btw...
Roma finished 5th last year and originally they should have played UEFA Cup, not CL.
They are the ones that didn't deserve to play CL because they weren't good enough to get in top4.
So, technically, Manchester United was privileged to play against an "UEFA Cup team", not against a Champions league material.
Talking about luck.....
Right ? :rolleyes:
:bri:
:devf:
second in the league this year though, right?
milanista03
23-04-2007, 01:40
so was it Maldini who bribed the appeal panel to let you have just enough of a points deduction to let you back into the CL? This after initially being relegated for being cheating so and so's, if you win the CL this year it will be a travesty for all the honest hard working clubs around the world.
Man... Watch out your step. You shoot the WRONG target :mad:. I'm fine if you talk about we bribing the linesmen and so and so.. We PAID our mistake. But, it's not Milan. We have a virtue that we value highly, and you know what, Maldini is the symbol for that. Who do you ridicule at?!! Someone who all of the fans call a saint.. It's ok to have our opponent fans here, but please do not cross the line... And you think your club is the symbol of honesty???!!! Get REAL!!!
well instead of posting generalisations enlighten me, was what I said not the allegation, were you and juve not both accused of doing what I said?
accused doesn't mean ita true. I accused you of being stupid but is it true? Oh well, it might be true for all i know. :grinser:
hitmannq8
23-04-2007, 03:14
I cant believe you guys even bother replying to this guy he's just here to piss you off. When a dark barks at you do you bark back?
Anyway back to the game, I fancy our chances of going through. Enough with the crap that alot of their players are missing, we have been through worse situations. In a year where all the English press were sayin Milan is all Shevchenko, he got injured for a whole month and we played against United without Sheva and completely dominated both legs without him. Thats just one example that comes to mind.
Every game has its own conditions, unfortunately for you guys you are unlucky with injuries at this point of the season. We have been unlucky for the entire season with injuries, we finally are able to depend on a full squad for the first time in the last 2 weeks. With all our injuries and troubles, we still managed to reach the semi-final of CL. Now Milan is finally fully loaded and are about to switch to the fourth gear. I am not afraid of united and I think we can beat them but all I fear is complacency.
Cmon Nesta, show them that Ronaldo is only good in the EPL where defenses do not exist. Cmon Kaka prove to them that you are the best in the world, use that free space you have. Pirlo has been great recently I just wish he keeps it up. Gilardino, PLEASE, WE NEED YOU. PLEASE BRING BACK THE PARMA GILARDINO! We need you now more than ever.
Our objective should not be to score an away goal, it should be to win this game with a two-goal difference. Do it for Italy, do it for Maldini! Forza Milan!
gattuso will kill c. rondaldo. if seedorf and kaka are in good conditions we will win this. it will all depend on our defence and if they can stop c. ronaldo. ManU is nothing without ronaldo.
I cant believe you guys even bother replying to this guy he's just here to piss you off. When a dog barks at you do you bark back?
How true. Indeed i was fortunate enough to recieve a private message from NTmilan ... whoever the f*ck that is ... here's what the delightful little boy (or girl) wrote to me.
"Dunno Whats in your head?
12 fit players? Its only in the mind, bru. Milan thinks they have psychological advantage with key united players out with injuries. But then again milan, they cant think coz theres nothing up there. If we had bashed roma (who r higher up than u), what makes u think we cant do the same with milan using our reserve but talented players. Ahh...then again, u cant think coz ur the same with all of milan, big headed but brainless, better use milans heads for kicking practice at old trafford."
How thoroughly decent of him to enrich my Monday morning like that :delol: I wonder if other members have been as lucky as i have and have recieved messages of their own.
If you have a message, please post it up so we can all have a good chuckle at the mindless clowns with zero intelligence and absolutely no knowledge of anything, football or otherwise. I wonder if all these Man Utd fans had to put their brains together to come up with this Booker prize winning piece of literature. I'm almost beginning to miss Richest Country and those annoying Lille supporters we had ... hell i'm even almost missing the Fenerbache fans :faint:
Tony29, you can't talk about being lucky when you support Juventus. Officially the flukiest team in history along with Man Utd :devf:
p_ps_sock
23-04-2007, 05:10
accused doesn't mean ita true. I accused you of being stupid but is it true? Oh well, it might be true for all i know. :grinser:
if the accusations weren't true why were you punished? honestly I'm interested in the reasons not just taking the piss.
zlatanov
23-04-2007, 05:13
he didn't change anything, I did ;)
Rayno_acm
23-04-2007, 05:53
I wanna say something to the ManU fans.
You know, a lot of the Milan fans are also ManU fans or at least the Milan fans like ManU, and I was one of those fans. I was always wondering was ManU is so hated along the others big clubs. Now I already know why you are so hated. :rolleyes:
You are too arrogant, you don't pay any respect to your opponents, you think your team is the only one who deserves to win, the only one who is not cheating, etc. :d55:
All of you are blind, you wear huge glasses and you're keeping to say that only ManU players are class players, all others are crap, etc.
That's why I think you deserve to learn a lesson. A lesson you didn't learn 2 years ago. I would really LOOOOOVE to see you beaten, cuz that's what will makes you mouths shut up (I hope...) and that's what you deserve. :devf:
FORZA MILAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. :3band:
People, Dida is fine, he will be there! WOHO!! We will need some good saves for sure.
Bad news is that Pippo is not ready and we will have to rely on Gila to do the job. He has played well in recent games, lets hope he can finish in the Old Traffond.
We should not let them play with their width, our backline must be discipline to prevent crosses and also diagonal from midfield, I hope Ambro and Rino will play 'cuz they play a central role in shutting down Bayern's attack.
And I hope we play with 2 attacante, van der sar was played at Juve we know him well, our downside is at the goalie but Kalac havent shown what he really is...
And who would watch an all english final anyway... :D
zlatanov
23-04-2007, 07:50
Whatever Tony says, forget it, it's not true :D
if the accusations weren't true why were you punished? honestly I'm interested in the reasons not just taking the piss.
Most of the accusations were true, for all the clubs involved.
All this is a very very complicated matter and it will take few posts, maybe 1 whole page to explain everything.
If the punished clubs did the same things in England, or in France i'd be expecting nothing else but Juve to be relegated 2 leagues down, Lazio or Fiorentina to be relegated, Milan to miss CL and relegated also.
But it happened in Italy, and with Calciopolli II ( especially with the silly and amatereush accusations about Udinese-Brescia, Sampdoria-Siena, Juventus-Milan and Lazio-Juventus matches) we've seen that the prosecution can not be trusted because they simply have no clue what are they talking about.
The prosecution couldn't prove a single fixed match, so at the end they found a solution in saying : The whole league was fixed !
If the whole league was fixed then it authomatically leads to : All clubs were fixing their matches !
And according to the man who was in the center of the scandal, together with Moggi, the ref designator Pairetto, every single official from every single club ( and most of them all, Inter's official Faschetti) was calling him and asking him for a "good" ref !
Then, if everyone was calling him and if the whole league was fixed, why only 4 teams originally were punished for that ? And why we got the 5th team involved, Reggina, right after ? And why do we have the 6th team involved, Messina, now ?
Will we get more teams involved in the next wave of Calciopolli ?
And will we at the end find out that really everyone was doing the same thing ?
At the end, we have Guido Rossi.
Former member of Inter board was the man who sentenced Juventus, Milan and the other clubs who weren't Inter's friends and were their main rivals.
There are many more iregularities, but at the end you'll get what i told you before : Everyone was involved and only few were punished.
So, when you're saying Milan shouldn't have played CL, you're right but only if Inter and Roma didn't play CL also.
Because we're talking about dirty Italian league here, the whole league, not just Milan, Juve, Fiorentina, Lazio, Reggina and now Messina !
Thanx Zlat :P
Edit : Oh, and i forgot to say that the prosecution got the evidence directly form Telecom Italia and one of the owners of Telecom is the owner of Inter's main sponsor Pirelli.
You can only imagine how selective they were in picking evidence ;)
Thanx Zlat :P
Edit : Oh, and i forgot to say that the prosecution got the evidence directly form Telecom Italia and one of the owners of Telecom is the owner of Inter's main sponsor Pirelli.
You can only imagine how selective they were in picking evidence ;)
And thinking about all the timing of the selection of the committee and some of the members' connection with Inter... man... this is just plain obvious. Then of course there is not a single call from Inter (who didn't even win the SCudetto for the past N years) was simply not credible.
Awarding Inter Milan the champion last year is a complete joke, and accusing Milan for fixing a Serie B match was equally buffoonable.
curry chicken
23-04-2007, 10:50
A really nice look back at the stats: Manchester United - AC Milan: A Historical Look (http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=286948)
Stats really dont mean a thing to me. People are calling United's defence a 'makeshift' one, but I don't think that's going to get them down at all...
My prediction is that it's going to be a very close game as both teams have been up studying each other with great detail. I'll be in school, painfully missing the match, learning about the blindingly interesting past of the Canadian Film industry :rolleyes:. God, why? If the right Milan shows up tomorrow then it wouldnt matter if you lined up 3 Ronaldos in front of us. He is special, but he's not UNSTOPPABLE. I hope the ragazzi play the same confident, wonderful, attacking football that they are more than capable of. I hope we show our true champion spirit.
See you all Tuesday night, post-match. Forza Rossoneri! :5schal:
I'll be in school, painfully missing the match, learning about the blindingly interesting past of the Canadian Film industry :rolleyes:. God, why?
strange brew & slap shot !!!
King tiger
23-04-2007, 11:27
i have to work too, ill be able to watch 2nd half only :(
Most of the accusations were true, for all the clubs involved.
All this is a very very complicated matter and it will take few posts, maybe 1 whole page to explain everything.
If the punished clubs did the same things in England, or in France i'd be expecting nothing else but Juve to be relegated 2 leagues down, Lazio or Fiorentina to be relegated, Milan to miss CL and relegated also.
But it happened in Italy, and with Calciopolli II ( especially with the silly and amatereush accusations about Udinese-Brescia, Sampdoria-Siena, Juventus-Milan and Lazio-Juventus matches) we've seen that the prosecution can not be trusted because they simply have no clue what are they talking about.
The prosecution couldn't prove a single fixed match, so at the end they found a solution in saying : The whole league was fixed !
If the whole league was fixed then it authomatically leads to : All clubs were fixing their matches !
And according to the man who was in the center of the scandal, together with Moggi, the ref designator Pairetto, every single official from every single club ( and most of them all, Inter's official Faschetti) was calling him and asking him for a "good" ref !
Then, if everyone was calling him and if the whole league was fixed, why only 4 teams originally were punished for that ? And why we got the 5th team involved, Reggina, right after ? And why do we have the 6th team involved, Messina, now ?
Will we get more teams involved in the next wave of Calciopolli ?
And will we at the end find out that really everyone was doing the same thing ?
At the end, we have Guido Rossi.
Former member of Inter board was the man who sentenced Juventus, Milan and the other clubs who weren't Inter's friends and were their main rivals.
There are many more iregularities, but at the end you'll get what i told you before : Everyone was involved and only few were punished.
So, when you're saying Milan shouldn't have played CL, you're right but only if Inter and Roma didn't play CL also.
Because we're talking about dirty Italian league here, the whole league, not just Milan, Juve, Fiorentina, Lazio, Reggina and now Messina !
The fact is clubs giving gifts to refs is acceptable in Italy is something worth taking notes of. This is not considered illegal in Italy and asking for refs on a friend-friend basis is again acceptable in Italy so where to draw the line on what is illegal and what's legal became a point to contest. Milan have never involved in fixing the result or outcome of a match unlike our dear Juve, Lazio and Fiorentina have all been proved to be actively involved in influencing the outcome of the matches so why the hell are we getting dragged down with them?
Because the judge is Inter and AC Milan happened to be the club they hate the most. The only thing Milan involved in is asking for refs which every club is doing, reason could be because everybody want a clean ref but nobody has been able to prove a ref help Milan in getting points and winning matches. The fact that the trial is heavily inter-influenced and nobody even raise an eyebrow just speak volumes of the fairness of the trial.
Milan has been doing so well in UCL compared to the other italian clubs, doesn't this tell you Milan is a capable club which doesn't rely on the refs like Juve and Inter did? Nothing more need to be said, anybody who tried to say Milan is a dirty club is just plain ignorant.
I remember Roma giving gold watches to refs as gifts and nobody questioned them for it?
Stezagud
23-04-2007, 11:49
This is getting rediculous :(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6582631.stm
we only had 10 players train and look like having to put Fletcher in defence, down to only 3 real defenders fit now :eek: If this continues we'll have to borrow a few of Milans subs just to keep the numbers fair!
zlatanov
23-04-2007, 11:57
This is getting rediculous :(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6582631.stm
we only had 10 players train and look like having to put Fletcher in defence, down to only 3 real defenders fit now :eek: If this continues we'll have to borrow a few of Milans subs just to keep the numbers fair!
I think Evra would make it and the defense would be comprised of Oshea, Brown, Heinze, Evra (this is how I'd put them from RB to LB) with Fletcher either on the bench (if Scholes plays) or playing alongside Carrick, ready to switch to defense if one fo teh defenders happens to be injured can't continue.
i think manU will be able to put up a very good first 11 - only absentee from the team that beat Roma 7-1 could well be Ferdinand.
What manU's main problem would be IMO is that these injuries haven't allowed for any rotation recently and the available players will not be as fresh as most manU fans would like them to be ... and also, the bench for Manu will comprise of probably only Scholes/Fletcher and Solskjaer as senior players ... the rest would probably have to be youth team players ... this won't give Fergi much of a choice if things for manU aren't going well and he needs to change tactics and freshen up things on the field.
What manU's problem would be IMO is that these injuries haven't allowed for any rotation recently and the available players will not be as fresh as most manU fans would like them to be ... and also, the bench for Manu will comprise of probably only Scholes/Fletcher and Solskjaer as senior players ... the rest would probably have to be youth team players.
Great insight.
Anyway Stezagud, I'm just curious, you are rooting for Milan or Man U in the two leagues? I'm just a little bit confused with your contention that "we only had 10 players train...". I know that you are a Man U supporter but I'm wondering which side you are hoping for a win here!
zlatanov
23-04-2007, 12:10
Anyway Stezagud, I'm just curious, you are rooting for Milan or Man U in the two leagues? I'm just a little bit confused with your contention that "we only had 10 players train...". I know that you are a Man U supporter but I'm wondering which side you are hoping for a win here!
he is rooting for ManU in this tie :( ... traitor :diablo:
Stezagud
23-04-2007, 12:30
I think Evra would make it and the defense would be comprised of Oshea, Brown, Heinze, Evra (this is how I'd put them from RB to LB) with Fletcher either on the bench (if Scholes plays) or playing alongside Carrick, ready to switch to defense if one fo teh defenders happens to be injured can't continue.
Thats likely if Evra makes it, but the most recent reports (more recent than the one posted) are saying Evra is only going to be fit enough for a place on the bench. Scholes will almost certainly play though, he is Utds most composed midfielder and a match for any of Milans at keeping possession, which is what both teams will be doing a lot of. Fletcher is a decent player but the sometimes he gets ideas and flies out of position...
i think manU will be able to put up a very good first 11 - only absentee from the team that beat Roma 7-1 could well be Ferdinand.
What manU's main problem would be IMO is that these injuries haven't allowed for any rotation recently and the available players will not be as fresh as most manU fans would like them to be ... and also, the bench for Manu will comprise of probably only Scholes/Fletcher and Solskjaer as senior players ... the rest would probably have to be youth team players ... this won't give Fergi much of a choice if things for manU aren't going well and he needs to change tactics and freshen up things on the field.
The only absentee is Ferdinand but he is a pretty big miss! Ģ30m of truly world class CB who has been rock solid all year long to be replaced by....John O Shea! a guy who has many nicknames amongst Utd fans, O' Shaky being probably the nicest of them ;)
As you point out the players aren't going to be fresh, Fergie tried to rest Giggs at the weekend but an injury to Richardson forced him into playing. The major problem as i told the sock guy is that our midfield will be stuck, they all naturally want to get forward at will and force Milan onto the back foot, but they will all be aware of the fact the defence is seriously weaker than usual and will be worried about overcommiting. This leads to what happened vs Boro where we were isolated up front because the midfield were scared of being hit on the break and ended up with a disjointed performance. :rolleyes:
It really is perfect for Milan, when the tie was made it was 50/50 or maybe even slightly in Utds favour for who would qualify, right now though the gambler within me would rate it 70/30 in Milans favour at least. A weaker team might not have the know how to exploit Utds troubles but Milan have all the experience to make the most of it. I said in another thread i would be delighted if Utd can avoid defeat tommorow and a draw would be an excellent result :cool;
Awarding Inter Milan the champion last year is a complete joke
It is, and calling it an ethic scudetto is even bigger joke.
Now we can even be happy they couldn't prove at least 1 match being fixed so they had to call the whole league fixed. Otherwise even the 2004/05 scudetto would have been awarded to Inter. This way noone can get that scudetto because the whole league was fixed according to them.
Although it's not the time and the place, i have to mention another thing connected to the latest accusations. I'm doing this just to show you how "proffesionally" the prosecution did their job.
According to the official documents from the prosecutors :
" Moggi fixed the match played on September 26 , 2004, Udinese-Brescia 1:2, so that Pinzi, Muntari e Di Michele get booked, so that they couldn't play the following match against Juventus. In that same match Jankuloski got sent off."
Nothing's strange on first glance. But :
1 . De Sanctis, Udinese goalkeeper was injured, lying in pain on the ground when Brescia scored a goal. Pinzi, Muntari and Di Michele were furious and protested, using some faul language. For that they got booked.
Jankulovski brutally punched an opponent on the face and he got a direct red for that.
2. To me it's pretty clear why were these players booked, but to the prosecutors it's Moggi who aranged these players to get booked and miss the next match against Juve.
3. We can give them the benefit of the doubt ( eventhough it's pretty obvious why were they booked) and accept that the ref gave them cards because Moggi told him so .
But then ......
4. Why did they all play against Juventus ?
Maybe because none of them was a yellow card away from suspension ?
The prosecution acused Moggi for fixing Pinzi, Muntari and Di Michele to get a yellow and miss the trip to Torino, but they didn't even check how none of these players was a yellow away from being banned and how they all had the right to play against Juve, and actually played on that match in Torino.
Isn't this amateurish ????????
----------------
Ok, enough off topic. This time i prepared you the past results between Milan and Man Utd, and the past results between Milan vs English teams , ManU vs Italian teams , English vs Italian teams.
Enjoy the tradition ;):
1. Milan and Manchester met 6 times in their history. All 6 matches were of high importance, and all 6 matches were played in Champions Cup/League ( they never met in Uefa Cup, Cup Winners Cup, Intertoto or Super Cup).
Of these 6 matches, Milan won 4 and lost 2 with goal difference 9:3
Everytime Milan played against ManUtd ( twice in the semifinals and once in the quarters) , the Italians were eliminating Manchester and played in the European final ( lost it twice and won it once)
2. Milan played 25 official matches against English teams.
9 wins - 9 draws- 7 defeats ( 30:23)
3 Manchester Utd played 25 matches against Italian teams
10 wins-3 draws-12 defeats ( 32:32)
4. Italians played 152 official matches against English teams
55 wins-40 draws-57 defeats ( 167:177)
Looks like tradition is on Milan's side here.
Edit : Grrrrrr, looks like curry chicken was faster :devf:
zlatanov
23-04-2007, 12:54
The only absentee is Ferdinand but he is a pretty big miss! Ģ30m of truly world class CB who has been rock solid all year long to be replaced by....John O Shea! a guy who has many nicknames amongst Utd fans, O' Shaky being probably the nicest of them ;)
true, Ferdinand is probably ManU's best defender but i think Brown and Heinze in CD would form a pretty good pair, although I suspect that Fergi would play Oshea and Brown.
Still, if Milan wins/dominates this game, I don't think that the main reason would be Ferdinand's absence - all the rest would be more or less the same from that game vs Roma - as one player missing cannot make a dif from beating Roma 7-1 to being outplayed by Milan.
The main factors fro that would be 1) All other ManU players will not be as fresh as they were before 2) lack of options on the bench and most importantly 3) Milan's approach to the game, which I expect to be very dif than Roma's.
Other than that, manU will still be able to field a very strong squad with only problems being in defense but I believe that players like Oshe, Brown, heinze, and one of neville/Evra/Fletcher can form a very good back 4 if used wisely.
And let's not forget the fact that manU plays at home - the players could draw extra inspiration from that - and Milan will also be more conservative than they would have normally been if the game was played at the SS ... this would take a big load off the defender's shoulders.
All in all, IMO manu's problems aren't in the first 11 they will field tomorrow but what's beyond those starting players i.e. lack of back-up options.
No point talking about players that are not on the squad. Milan cant play Ronaldo and Pippo is injured. And those two are our best forwards. They are gone, so what?? You play with the players you have. United's defence consistiong of O'shea-Brown-Heinze-Evra is not bad at all! Puls, their midfield is super strong.
Lets just fight with 150% of our power and hope we can progress in 2
tough matches. Its not our fault they played Rio when they knew he is half injured. Lets show no mercy and play the best we can to exploit week points of united.
And the most difficult thing is to win the match in the middle of the field, only then you can exploit their defence.
And the most difficult thing is to win the match in the middle of the field, only then you can exploit their defence.
I agree and that's where the match is uaually determined. The last time we met Man U, they were outclassed totally in midfield and it make a huge difference. This time round, i am pretty confident we can win the battle in midfield yet again. No disrespect to any Man U midfielders, none of them can match up to Pirlo and Gatusso in our midfield. Even seedorf look to be in fine form recently. :grinser:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Manchester United are a better team now than a couple of years ago, particularly as some players have matured and developed like Ronaldo and Rooney," Maldini told the press on the eve of the game.
"But there's no doubt we're up there with them and are up to the task.
"The fact we're in the semi-final shows our class."
Asked about the 7-1 win, the Rossenri skipper coolly responded: "When United saw our performance against Bayern they would certainly have thought that it would have been better to face Bayern in the semi-finals than us.
"We have huge respect for Manchester United but no fear.
"They play wonderful football, especially here, but what happened against Roma will have no impact on our dressing room and how we approach the game.
"I'm proud to be here and be captain of my team. We're motivated by the fact we want to win the Champions League, which has been our main aim throughout this season.
"We have always been a leading club in Europe, and Italy, over the last 20 years and we want to show why."
Almost inevitably, the discussion shifted to Cristiano Ronaldo, the new PFA Player of the Year. There have been suggestions that he will marked out of the game by one Milan player, probably even Maldini himself.
"Ronaldo has everything: he's fast, good in the air, scores goals and is creative," said Maldini. "But we don't man mark any players so, to a certain extent, he'll decide who marks him by where he is on the pitch."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
coming from the great Maldini, he speak with so much class. Respect for the opponents while stating the facts that we are a strong team. Compared with all those clowns from Man U who still think we are going to roll over like Roma. :grinser:
ACMILAN1983
23-04-2007, 16:47
Recently I've seen a lot of trash talk with regards to this match with Milan given no hope. Quite frankly I ask for nothing more, because we're used to being the underdogs, so this isn't a new situation to us, so we just remain focused on the match.
Firstly, I don't think Man U are as good as people claim. Take away the recent Roma match, and nothing of note has been accomplished by them this CL that's particularly extraordinary. Neither has their recent form been worth shouting about (with exception to Roma again).
Tactically, I feel Carlo is correct in saying Man U are predictable. They have a very talented group of players, but tactically rarely change from what works for them, which includes fast, direct, counterattacking football based around the supply of the center midfield (usually Carrick and Scholes) and fast pace and movement of Ronaldo, Rooney and Giggs.
To stop them, I'd say that we must dominate the midfield. Key players to put pressure on include those mentioned above. A pressing game will break their ability to really pick up pace against our side, though we must be sure not to overcommit when pushing forward as we could end up victims to their attacking play. Essentially, we must also break the flow of the game whenever they look like they're gathering pace.
A tight marking system between Rino and Ambro should stunt the chances Ronaldo and Giggs get, whilst it's up to the other midfielders to press Scholes and Carrick (Kaka and Seedorf will be important).
My main worry is our fullbacks, who really can't afford to have off days in these matches, because their defensive skills are vital to stop Man U's wide attacks, as well as us needing them to work with Rino and Ambro to double up on the United attackers.
Our key area of focus when attacking should probably look to be to hit the space in between the midfield and defence of United, as Scholes and Carrick both push forward often leaving a gap. Usually Vidic and Rio will compensate for this, but I'm not sure how well Brown and Heinze will be able to do this.
Van Der Sar also looks a little shaky of late, and so to put him under pressure would be a good opportunity for us to cause havoc in already a bit of a weak United defence.
Tactically I think this is a tie that we won't have a great deal to worry about, because I think Carlo knows well what United will offer. If the players remain tactically sharp, mentally focused and clinical in their approach, there is little reason we can't win.
MILANISTI! PREPARE FOR GLORY!
FORZA MILAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We will go trough to the final. I really am looking forward to the game tomorrow. Milan is in a great form. The confidence is back. Manchester's defence is weakened very much. We will have to profit from that. And our magnificiant defencesive midfield trio will stop their dangerous counter-attacks, more important: they will stop CR.
Milan will show the world tomorrow why they are the greatest in Europe.
forza Milan
whole english league is predictable, if u ask me. Fast and physical in defence, deadly on counter and cant play it low. I looked several EPL matches in these 30 days and i always see the same. They get the ball, pass it on their own half a bit and then one of them sends it forward to wing or rushing midfielder/scorer. They rarely pass the half-line on the ground. Almost no tactics but so much more crazy kicking the ball in the air and crazy running after it...
I think the important thing here is not getting the goal. And since our back line can be a bit slow those quick counters worry me. Also our defending midfields should watch the 25-30y area, i fear the biggest chance for them to score would be from a long range uncovered spot.
What is likely to be our starting lineup?
ACMILAN1983, Ambro,Rino and Pirlo together? Does that mean a lone striker.
Is Berlu allowing that these days.
Also is Cafu likely to get the nod ahead of Oddo.
Iv seen a few clips of C.Ronaldo on fire recently. When ever he is on the right against us the one man to stop him should be Serghinio. Hes fast enough. Unless Janku has blossomed and please say he has.
What is likely to be our starting lineup?
ACMILAN1983, Ambro,Rino and Pirlo together? .
Wow! Does 1983 have CL experience? lol
ACMILAN1983, Ambro,Rino and Pirlo together? Does that mean a lone striker.
Is Berlu allowing that these days.
:zany:
Is this a serious typo or is there some inside joke I'm missing here? :grinser:
I always have to take a deep breath and come back to reality after watching the english league. it's fast, it's out of control and it produces some great goals. but as many have been stating, it is a bit predictable and not skillful.
when i watched milan decimate munich, i remembered back to milan-man u from 2005. i was worried then, thinking that if man u played in the 'english' style, we'd get destroyed. ha! milan came in, did the most efficient job, and shut them down. twice.
i think man u will be psychologically decimated by the injuries. fletcher, o'shea (aka watermelon-feet) and smith, while hard-nosed prem players, are not european quality. even if milan don't score (please come back to life, gila), i think they can effectively kill the game off with possession. it's the same thing with celtic-go to parkhead, probably a tougher stadium to play in since OT is usually quiet, kill the game off, come home and do it.
i think it will be milan, 4-1 on aggregate.
let's all enjoy the ride-what a season!
Wow! Does 1983 have CL experience? lol
It was a typo !
He wanted to write 1984, and we know he ment George Orwell, the anglo-indian defensive midfielder. :devil:
And K77SH C , i'm not Dev but i think i can give you the same answer :
Yes, Carlo will probably start with lone Gila up front. Oliveira is the other available attacker ( Pippo is injured, i think) and i can't see him starting, especially on an away and such important match.
Concidering Cafu played on Sunday and Oddo was rested, i believe it's going to be Oddo who'll start tonight.
zlatanov
23-04-2007, 19:09
What is likely to be our starting lineup?
ACMILAN1983, Ambro,Rino and Pirlo together? Does that mean a lone striker.
Is Berlu allowing that these days.
Also is Cafu likely to get the nod ahead of Oddo.
Iv seen a few clips of C.Ronaldo on fire recently. When ever he is on the right against us the one man to stop him should be Serghinio. Hes fast enough. Unless Janku has blossomed and please say he has.
nothing personal vs Dev but I'd rather see Seedorf in there :D
yeah, we'll be using X-tree as we've done in most CL games of the second stage. Plus with Ronie cup-tied and Pippo not in good shape, we don't have much of choice to begin with.
the formation will likely be:
Dida
Oddo, Nesta, Maldini, Janku
Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambro
Kaka, Seedorf
Gila
I would expect Oddo to start over Cafu as the latter played a full game vs Cagliari and he no longer has 2 games in 3 days in his legs ... but I am sure he would be ready to come in if necessary.
Serginho will probably be on the bench as he probably doesn't have enough match fitness to start such an important game. I would expect him to relieve Seedorf later in the game, especially if ManU needs to push forward and we could take them on the counter.
The way I think Milan will try to stop CR is pack the midfield and defense so that he doesn't have much space to operate in ... which is when he is most dangerous ... doubt we would bother putting a defender on him.
Zlat, I agree on the formation... and although Dida is traveling with the team, I'm not 100% sure he will start... maybe Kalac will play...
Itīs simple and easy to know who will win
If Milan's players play what they know, the italian team will win for sure
If Ancelotti mess the team, Manchester United will win
Itīs a good game for Ambrosini and Gattuso play together, Gattuso must run behind Cristiano Ronaldo all the time and Ambrosini must deffense the zone
English teams use to be robotic, they donīt have so much imagination so I think Seedorf and Kaká, two smart players will do a great job
Ferdinand is a fantastic deffender but iI donīt think the other Manchester United's deffenders can mess the job of Milan's attack
In football, everything can happen but I think Brazil, Italia and Netherlands is the best combination of players for a team and thatīs kinda what Milan is really trust that Milan can win bouth challenges
Hasan Rossonero
23-04-2007, 22:21
I think we will line up with 4-3-2-1:
Dida; Oddo, Nesta, Maldini, Janku; Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambro; Seedorf, Kaka; Gilardino
Shut up Zlat and don't ruin my perfect argument how Milan is the luckiest team of all time in the universe :mad:
.......
Still, you're lucky bastards ( my signature doesn't aply when we talk about Milan's luck )
Well, maybe that's true because after all, "fortune favors the bold". :5ok:
Edit: Oh, and are you sure that OT is usually quiet? Cuz when I watched the Roma vs. Man U game, the booing from ManU fans was pretty loud. :uhm: Actually, it was quite scary, no wonder the Roma players lost their nerve so easily.
Oh yeah, FORZA MILAN! FIGHT LIKE THE LIONS AND HEROES YOU ARE!!!!
Edit: Oh, and are you sure that OT is usually quiet? Cuz when I watched the Roma vs. Man U game, the booing from ManU fans was pretty loud. :uhm: Actually, it was quite scary, no wonder the Roma players lost their nerve so easily.
Umm... that's why 'experience' counts. :D:D:D:D:D:D
hitmannq8
24-04-2007, 01:27
12 hours and counting.
I'm going to watch this game while playing GOLF tomorow! LOL! Not at my ususal course. I'll be going to a golf club that has Sat TV screens in them. Wooohoooo! Play golf and watch footie! Life couldnt be better!
FORZA MILAN!
Kaka1899
24-04-2007, 03:44
We must not give Man U the midfield if we do Ronaldo will dictate play we cant give him that chance to run at us imo we must have either San Paolo or Jankulovski man marking him we cannot give him space. Scholes and Ronaldo are a yellow from suspension so that could be an advantage for us. Currently they are having difficulties filling there back four which may make them lower on expirience which could give us the edge over them in some circumstances. We must make the most of set pieces if we can get 1 or 2 goals from set pieces and 1 from open play is that settled? 3 away goals? i have a good feeling about tonight.
Forza Dida, Forza San Paolo, Forza Kaka and last but not least Forza Milan!!!
jmacpherson
24-04-2007, 04:21
And so the day has finally arrived!
Will be an interesting match. Manu are depleted and in their last couple of domestic games they are looking fatigued and stretched.
On the other hand Milan are flourishing domestically, think we've scored 11 goals in the last 3 serie A matches? (Yes, Ronaldo is the key but the performance of the team as awhole is much better). More importantly we rested many key players on the weekend.
At the end of it all it comes down to who performs on the night and who wants it more. In that respect, Milan's hunger is greater than Manu imo.
We've turned our season around. We have secured 4th place domestically and are even in the hunt for 3rd. Who would have thought that a couple of months ago?
We are in the semis of the UCL, which as we all know is Milan's primary objective every season. More important than the scudetto to Milan.
Where as imo the EPL is more important to Manu. Think its more important for them to beat Chelsea domestically than to beat us. They also have the FA cup to contend with.
By tomorrow all will be revealed.
PS...with regards to people (aka manu fans) bringing up Calcipoli etc....get over it!!!!
Almost every major sport in the world is full of corruption in one way or another. Sport is no longer a sport, its treated as a business and a way to make massive amounts of money. As we know many people will do almost anything for money to "get ahead" in the business world.
As for the Maldini chirp....Maldini is probably one of the very few living legends who still plays at the highest levels and gives opponents half his age 90min of hell! He is one of the last true gentleman in the game. Show him the respect he deserves!
Now if there is factual video evidence of Milan putting money into a ref's hand, or banking transaction evidence of money being transferred out Milans account into refs account and then during the match where said ref is officiating, Milan scores 5 goals in offside position with the flag raised and is allowed and commits 10 blatant fouls in their own penalty box without conceeding a penalty - then its a whole different story.
lastly, and i stand corrected, i don't recall any Italian referees giving the same player 3 yellow cards before getting a red...aka Mr.Poll...
jmacpherson
24-04-2007, 04:25
Something occurred to me....if match-fixing boils down to influencing the referee...then diving during a match is also match fixing in my book.
Everytime a player dives should we suspend them for a season or loan them to a little team in some lowly league?
Kaka1899
24-04-2007, 07:26
Something occurred to me....if match-fixing boils down to influencing the referee...then diving during a match is also match fixing in my book.
Everytime a player dives should we suspend them for a season or loan them to a little team in some lowly league?
Hasnt Adriano been suspended for Diving against Roma?
ACMILAN1983
24-04-2007, 07:57
What is likely to be our starting lineup?
ACMILAN1983, Ambro,Rino and Pirlo together? Does that mean a lone striker.
Is Berlu allowing that these days.
Also is Cafu likely to get the nod ahead of Oddo.
Iv seen a few clips of C.Ronaldo on fire recently. When ever he is on the right against us the one man to stop him should be Serghinio. Hes fast enough. Unless Janku has blossomed and please say he has.
lol, the predicted lineup from most sources say it will be Dida, Oddo, Nesta, Maldini, Janku, Rino, Pirlo, Ambro, Seedorf, Kaka and Gila.
lol, to seriously answer the question about the midfield, we've played with 1 striker in quite a few matches (both Celtic and Bayern matches) and it's worked reasonably well. In this match I think Rino and Ambro could be very dominating for us in midfield, where most key battles will take place.
Cafu isn't likely to get the nod imo (he played on Saturday), though his form has much improved.
Finally, though I'd like Serginho in this match, I just don't think he's ready for such matches after such a long layoff. However, his pace and counterattacking abilities may be of use towards the end of the match.
Wow! Does 1983 have CL experience? lol
Will be my debut ;)
:zany:
Is this a serious typo or is there some inside joke I'm missing here? :grinser:
nothing personal vs Dev but I'd rather see Seedorf in there :D
I'm our secret weapon tonight :grinser:
curry chicken
24-04-2007, 08:46
BREAKING NEWS: Gila has shaved his head. But everyone else looks fine...a little greasy, but that should even out before kick-off. Everyone knows 20 percent of our game relies on good hair. :grinser: :grinser:
All right dropping by to say FORZA MILAN! :3band:
Paolo, Nesta, Marek, Pirlo, Kaka and Ambro all have their hair nice and ready... While Dida has two or three lines on his left side as always... Oddo, Gattuso, Seedorf and Gila have no hair problems. We are just fine in that department.... :)
From acmilan.com:
SILVIO BERLUSCONI SPURS MILAN
4/24/2007
Silvio Berlusconi spoke to Radio Anch'io on Milan's line-up this evening against Manchester United in the Champions League. 'Kakā will play in support of Gilardino,' said the president. 'Seedorf will play in Kakā position. and I think Jankulovski will mark the very dangerous Ronaldo.' (Ansa)
:nervous:
Oh yeah, I think you can see Gila in the back of this picture (http://media2.acmilan.com/200704/6850_big.jpg?ver=1).
remote2book
24-04-2007, 09:54
well guys....3 more hrs til da game..and i only have 3 more 50 min classes left..will be seeing u when da match starts...good luck
got my milan jersey on at work. just two words - forza milan.
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