View Full Version : We want our milan back-the petition
menon_inc
05-11-2007, 12:01
Here we are again, with another petition, but a different objective. I know that we have done this before for Sheva and it didn't work (or did it? ), but this time it's intended for Milan's management and the sorry excuses of transfers we are getting every season:
http://www.petitiononline.com/Milan008/petition.html
Its from the same person that started the Sheva petition. Lets all join forces and sign this petition! Thanks!
Unfortunately, I don't totally agree with what the petition says. I guess it's better for me to leave it as it :).
Sure glad you didn't :5ok:
Naturally I signed :o
menon_inc
05-11-2007, 22:06
Thanks. We ahve got 50 signatures so far. Lets keep it going and see how far we can go :)
would I break your hearts if I tell you no one with decision power at Milan will read this?
or that even if they did, being top executives, business men, they would immediately notice the lack of proposals?
Blacktop
05-11-2007, 23:45
Personally, I think online petitions are a waste of time, only because it's not as if the intended target even bothers to acknowledge them anyway.
slifersd
06-11-2007, 00:03
Although I support what you said and just signed your petition, I have to agree with what the guys above me said. This petition is not going to work because nobody in power gives a crap about what the fans think any more. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this many sorry excuses of transfers on this team. The only action that can make them change their way is by boycotting them. Why would the management want to spend more money when they are getting record season ticket sales? But if that number goes down significantly, then they'd have to think about what they are doing. Money is the only thing that matters to the management, then let's use their one and only weakness and attack them until they cave into our demands!
slifersd, I disagree with you... it almost seems as if you were talking about some other team...
they do care about what fans think... otherwise you wouldn't be a fan... which you still are although you want flashy acquisitions...
Boycott? is that how you support your team? by making it hostage?
This is a long term business... not season in, season out...
hany.Egypt
06-11-2007, 02:45
I will put the link in an Arabian fourm so we can get more signatures.
menon_inc
06-11-2007, 04:22
Personally, I think online petitions are a waste of time, only because it's not as if the intended target even bothers to acknowledge them anyway.
Erm the last petition we did made it on Gazette Dello Sport and Milan channel. Im more than sure that the intended target was aware of it. Unfortunetly, his wife decision was more important :D We are hoping to make a similiar impact. There has been a few protest outside the stadium with fans venting their frustration at a lack of signings, newspapers+old managers and players (Sachi, Boban, etc) having ago at the management. This is just to show how we feel and put them under more preasure to deliver. Well again, it only takes probably 30 seconds to a min to sign the petition. Its like you have to sacrifice your life to sign it. :)
Did it! mercato of european champions!!
menon_inc
06-11-2007, 08:39
Did it! mercato of european champions!!
Power to the poeple :D
Erm the last petition we did made it on Gazette Dello Sport and Milan channel.
And this one would end how on Milan Channel?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy at all with the way our management handles many things (from mercato to new contracts to their own peculiar way to watch Milan go wrong, and say "we are the Champions of Europe nothing is wrong"), but this, this is a total waste of time, not only cause they won't even read it (at most they will be just aware of the existance of Milan fans that aren't happy with the way things are handled, but they won't care), second because, they are the owners of the club, and thus they can do whatever they want to with it. Third, it makes Milan fans look like a bunch of spoiled brats that can't handle when things go wrong, and don't understand (an important lesson that Liedhom taught Maldini) that football is just a game, there are zillions of big teams around the globe that have gone through rough patches, Milan won't be the first nor the last, this isn't even Milan's first rough patch (nor this management's first rough patch, thank God the Internet did not work when we didn't won the scudetto for 40 years).
his wife decision was more important :D We are hoping to make a similiar impact
that's not really ambicious :stupid:
this isn't even Milan's first rough patch (nor this management's first rough patch, thank God the Internet did not work when we didn't won the scudetto for 40 years).
this says it all :respect:
Egoistka
07-11-2007, 01:22
I have signed as well, though I dont think that Milan management will read it...or even if they read it...they would not start doing anything differently. At the end of the day - Milan is a business that brings someone a lot of money, and I agree that Milan management primarily cares about money, and only after that they care about all the rest.
However there is a theoritical chance that we might be heard and that is why I signed...:)
slifersd
08-11-2007, 01:07
slifersd, I disagree with you... it almost seems as if you were talking about some other team...
they do care about what fans think... otherwise you wouldn't be a fan... which you still are although you want flashy acquisitions...
Boycott? is that how you support your team? by making it hostage?
This is a long term business... not season in, season out...
What exactly made you believe that the management cares about the fans? Their crappy signings, the crappy team they built or the countless lies they tell every single summer to get people to buy their tickets? I hate the way a lot of people make signing new players a luxury. Adding new blood is a necessity for every team in every sports. Through the transfer market, we are supposed to sign new players every year to make our team better, which is exactly what we haven't been getting for years from our beloved management. Look at the roster we have, even a blind man can tell that there are many holes that requires new signings to fill. But what do we get? Every summer, there is a media campaign about how we are going to sign a HUGE star. And we always, always end up with some cheap washed up 35 year old. When the majority of the Milan fans are screaming for a major spending spree to put this team back on top, our management isn't even trying. Does that sound like they care about the fans? Not to me.
Now I can understand how you feel about boycotting your favorite team in the world. You see it as betrayal, but I see if as whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes in life, you have to go to drastic measures to solve the problems. When the management doesn't care about how we feel, we have to find a way to make them care. And if boycotting them is what we have to do to get noticed, then so be it. This is not betraying my favorite team but much rather doing what's best for them. Our board of directors are making mistakes while ignoring our advices, so let's whip some sense into them. If you have a better idea of forcing them to start spending money on this team, I would very much like to hear it.
Soccer is indeed a long term business, but like all businesses, the mistakes you make always affects the future of your business. I for one will not stand by and let the idiots in our management turn this team into an average team. Look at what happened to legendary teams such as Liverpool and Napoli. They fell off the top and now they are not even close to the level they used to be. Liverpool is a second rated team in Premiership every year and Napoli is even worse. The way this management is running this team is destroying our team and if we are not careful, we could end up on a slippery slope and became the next Liverpool. Is that what you want to happen to our beloved team? I don't.
I for one will not stand by and let the idiots in our management turn this team into an average team.
Most succesful management ever in football, hardly cause to call them "idiots", in fact no Milan fan in their right mind should ever call them idiots. Regardless of some recent mistakes.
slifersd
09-11-2007, 04:46
Most succesful management ever in football, hardly cause to call them "idiots", in fact no Milan fan in their right mind should ever call them idiots. Regardless of some recent mistakes.
History does not necessarily have anything to do with the present. Just because you could do something 10 years ago doesn't mean you can do the exact same thing 10 years later. Cafu used to be the best right back in the world 10 years ago and now he is barely worth the jersey he has on. This management was very successful back when they were willing to spend money. But that has changed. The management refuse to spend one single penny on the team no matter how badly the team needs it. Does that sound like the old Milan management to you? Is this management the same management that brought us superstar after superstar? No, it is not! Simply remembering the old glory days instead of focusing on the present is exactly what the problem with the management is. This team is going down the wrong path and our management are the ones who led us there. They have lost their touch and it is now time for them to shape up or get out.
We had worse periods than this in the past. 97/98 and 00/01 where both much worse than the present. We came out from both as champions. Now a management doesn't lose their skills due to age, like a footballer, thats a reall inapropriate comparison.
Now just because they haven't spent €50M every year doesn't mean we won't have improvments when really needed. Let me add that when we bought the worlds best players all the time was a different time, it was a time when none else did do just that. Real Madrid didn't get €100M for Spanish TV rights, Mourinho wasn't involved in football and transfer prices of €30M didn't exist before the later half of the 90s. We bought the worlds brightest talent, Marco Van Basten for €1M.
We just got a 17 year old Pato for €20M.
We just got a 17 year old Pato for €20M.
And we are putting our trust on that... I'm not even sure if this is the right move... - J
ACMILAN1983
09-11-2007, 13:40
And we are putting our trust on that... I'm not even sure if this is the right move... - J
I honestly think much of our management's trust has been put on Gila, Pippo and especially Ronaldo. Pato I think is the unknown quantity that's essentially replaced Borriello. Basically, if he does well then that's fantastic, but if not (at least this season) then it's no big problem, as like Borriello last year, his role will be minimal.
If you have a better idea of forcing them to start spending money on this team, I would very much like to hear it.
what makes you think we have the right to FORCE them to do anything?
we're SPECTATORS... they're the owners, it's their money, and they know how to do this business... oh yes, they know... we don't...
there's an idea you can think about.
Rayno_acm
09-11-2007, 15:18
...Now I can understand how you feel about boycotting your favorite team in the world. You see it as betrayal, but I see if as whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes in life, you have to go to drastic measures to solve the problems. When the management doesn't care about how we feel, we have to find a way to make them care. And if boycotting them is what we have to do to get noticed, then so be it. This is not betraying my favorite team but much rather doing what's best for them. Our board of directors are making mistakes while ignoring our advices, so let's whip some sense into them. If you have a better idea of forcing them to start spending money on this team, I would very much like to hear it...
All I can say about all this noise here in this thread is... SHAME!!! :yuck:
People, who even only consider the idea to boycotte their favorite team, have no right to call themselves "fans" :5milan:
Most of the people have no idea what the greatness of Milan really means. Milan is not a team, who wants to win it all at all costs. Milan is a team, who tries to win it with honour. Milan from the game vs. Sevilla is the real Milan. Milan tries to win the game and in the same time respects his opponent.
Milan honour their players like no other team. Look at Bierhoff, who made a name in Udinese, played 2-3 years for Milan and when he left and after that he scored vs Milan, he apologized. Even player like him, who spent in Milan less than 3 years, became a fan of Milan.
Milan means not only victories. Milan means Respect and Honour.
Why do you think we won so much in the resent years? Becouse we had the best players? I can name you atleast half a dozen teams in Europe, who had better players. We won so much, becouse we had better TEAM. We had a unity in the squad like the other great teams can only dream of.
Yes, maybe Galliani and Berluscone had made some mistakes in the last year or two. But they are humans too, right? And be sure, they will realize it and they will what it takes to bring the team to the top again.
Yes, this players can't produce anymore like they did before. But they won for us the Champions' League!!! What do you suppose, to throw them away? Of course these players deserved a second chance. They stood with us in the hardest season in the last 10 years.
We are not Real Madrid, who fires his coach after winning the title. We do not dump our captain after he's lifting the another trophy. We respect our heroes and I'm proud of that.
I still believe that our management will raise us again to the top, sooner or later. :devs:
I don't want my team to behave like bastards. I want my team to win in Milan's way. :rone:
slifersd
10-11-2007, 20:47
what makes you think we have the right to FORCE them to do anything?
we're SPECTATORS... they're the owners, it's their money, and they know how to do this business... oh yes, they know... we don't...
there's an idea you can think about.
So the team is only playing for the amusement of its owners, right? You bring up a very good point of how they know how to do business and we don't. That is probably true! But what I do know is that when your team plays like crap, you are not doing your business right. I couldn't care less about how they want to run the team as long as the team is a winner. But when they turn my favorite team into a team that can lose to Empoli at home, even a know nothing like me know that there is something wrong. The owners never shut up about how they want to make the fans happy, they said it, not me! And frankly speaking, I am not happy about being out of the Serie A title race after 7 rounds of play. If this team is theirs, not the fans', maybe they should just close down the stadiums and watch the games themselves.
slifersd
10-11-2007, 20:57
We had worse periods than this in the past. 97/98 and 00/01 where both much worse than the present. We came out from both as champions. Now a management doesn't lose their skills due to age, like a footballer, thats a reall inapropriate comparison.
Now just because they haven't spent €50M every year doesn't mean we won't have improvments when really needed. Let me add that when we bought the worlds best players all the time was a different time, it was a time when none else did do just that. Real Madrid didn't get €100M for Spanish TV rights, Mourinho wasn't involved in football and transfer prices of €30M didn't exist before the later half of the 90s. We bought the worlds brightest talent, Marco Van Basten for €1M.
We just got a 17 year old Pato for €20M.
We went through worse periods than this but that was because we were in transition. Our great players were retired and we needed time to build an entirely new team. That was understandable. But that is not the case with the team we have now. Our superstars are still there and playing well. It is the rest of the team that has gone to the toilet due to aging. This team should not be in a period of decline if only the supporting cast was replaced by younger and more capable players. Managment doesn't lose skills due to age, but old people do lose their brain power due to age. Not to mention this management has lost their desire and passion for this team due to age.
You talk about how we actually made the improvements we needed. Is that why we fell from the best team in Europe four years ago to a team that lost out on Serie A title race before 1/3 of the season is finished? You have got to be kidding yourself if you actually think this team has ALL the players it needs to be successful in both domestic and European competitions. Sure, the days of us buying every major star there is was a different time, but I am not even saying we should sign a Ronaldinho every year. All I asked was for the necessary improvements, like a new goalkeeper, a solid center back, capable backup wing backs, and a superstar striker to replace the one we lost. Is that really too much to ask? Since when did spending any money on this team at all became such as big deal that everyone would hate to see happening? I will repeat this again, spending money to improve the team every year, not occasionally, is a necessity, not a luxury! It is part of the game, not a sin!
slifersd
10-11-2007, 21:02
All I can say about all this noise here in this thread is... SHAME!!! :yuck:
People, who even only consider the idea to boycotte their favorite team, have no right to call themselves "fans" :5milan:
Most of the people have no idea what the greatness of Milan really means. Milan is not a team, who wants to win it all at all costs. Milan is a team, who tries to win it with honour. Milan from the game vs. Sevilla is the real Milan. Milan tries to win the game and in the same time respects his opponent.
Milan honour their players like no other team. Look at Bierhoff, who made a name in Udinese, played 2-3 years for Milan and when he left and after that he scored vs Milan, he apologized. Even player like him, who spent in Milan less than 3 years, became a fan of Milan.
Milan means not only victories. Milan means Respect and Honour.
Why do you think we won so much in the resent years? Becouse we had the best players? I can name you atleast half a dozen teams in Europe, who had better players. We won so much, becouse we had better TEAM. We had a unity in the squad like the other great teams can only dream of.
Yes, maybe Galliani and Berluscone had made some mistakes in the last year or two. But they are humans too, right? And be sure, they will realize it and they will what it takes to bring the team to the top again.
Yes, this players can't produce anymore like they did before. But they won for us the Champions' League!!! What do you suppose, to throw them away? Of course these players deserved a second chance. They stood with us in the hardest season in the last 10 years.
We are not Real Madrid, who fires his coach after winning the title. We do not dump our captain after he's lifting the another trophy. We respect our heroes and I'm proud of that.
I still believe that our management will raise us again to the top, sooner or later. :devs:
I don't want my team to behave like bastards. I want my team to win in Milan's way. :rone:
So what you are saying is, you are comfortable sitting there and watching your favorite team lose on a weekly basis instead of trying to make a change. You want Milan to win the Milan way, and that is beautiful. But the problem this team is facing right now is that they are not winning. Building a team to get back on top takes time, that part is true. But making basically no progress is not the way to do it and that is exactly what our management is doing every year. Just because I want to get rid of some players who can no longer perform and stopped caring a while ago doesn't mean I want to get rid of everyone on this team. As a fan, I want to see my team do well all the time! And if that means we have to get rid of a few players who way past their due date, then so be it!
hany.Egypt
11-11-2007, 03:33
Trying to force the management to make new signings doesnt make us anti Milan fans, our team needs new players, its a fact that even a blind can easly see, and acting accorrding to we are the champions we need nothing is simply wrong and building our hopes on 18 years old kid is another mistake, and all what we want is saying this to them, what is the problem here?
I am against calling the management idiots but also I am against saying that they definitly know more than us all the time, yes they were the most succsessful managemnt in the last 20 years but at the moment they are not, as far as I remeber that after we won the Scudetto in 99 the fans were screaming for new signings and our management acted according to we are the champions and what was the result at the end we finished in something alike 11th or 12th in the league, they promised to bring some new players in the summer so they sold more season tickets because the these fans thought that there team is going to be the best or at least compete like Inter, Roma, Juve and Firontena then the managemnt did not do what they promised, is not this a mistake? If they were unwilling to spend money then they should not have said they will other wise they should be commeted to their promises.
All in all we should stand behined our team in this situation but at the same time our management must try to fix the broken things, renewing faith in Carlo at the moment is right (eventhough I am an anti fan of him but changing the coash in the middle of the season is wrong) signing new players in Jan is also very useful as well and signing a petition asking for new signings would also be useful and wont make us against the team or put shame on us.
Rayno_acm
11-11-2007, 05:44
So what you are saying is, you are comfortable sitting there and watching your favorite team lose on a weekly basis instead of trying to make a change. You want Milan to win the Milan way, and that is beautiful. But the problem this team is facing right now is that they are not winning. Building a team to get back on top takes time, that part is true. But making basically no progress is not the way to do it and that is exactly what our management is doing every year. Just because I want to get rid of some players who can no longer perform and stopped caring a while ago doesn't mean I want to get rid of everyone on this team. As a fan, I want to see my team do well all the time! And if that means we have to get rid of a few players who way past their due date, then so be it!
May be you didn't understand what I wanted to say. :rolleyes:
I admitted, that some desicions, made by our management, turned out to be wrong, and they see it. These players deserved a second chance, and now it seems they aren't good enough, they aren't able to perform like they did before.
Changes WILL be made, so no need to boycott the team. :rolleyes:
What do you expect our management to do RIGHT NOW?!? :rolleyes:
To blast the players? :rolleyes:
Galliani and Berlusconi just are trying to safe the dignity of some players, who will leave us at the end of the season.
We, the fans, have to be more patient, we will raise again, we always do. :diablo:
Look what Marco3 has written in the thread about the future of Ancelotti, he said it all :respect:
I remember that 4 or 5 years ago AC Milan was playing some amazing football. We had a younger team but the majority of the players who play there now were there then. It may not be as possible now to have the same speed about our game as we did then and i think that is one of the reasons for our results now. That and a little bit of bad luck. Certain players are past their prime but I would not swap a single one for anyone else.
The reason? They've won us 2 Champions Leagues in the last 4 years.
The first game against Liverpool? Liverpool's name was on the cup. Any other day we would have spanked them 6-0.
Now I know that when things aren't going well, it's easy to blame the players, the manager, the president etc. but we have to face the fact that football works in cycles. Arsenal last year did nothing and are now one of the best teams.
Personally I wouldn't swap Ancelotti for anyone and if we make a few good signings in the summer we should be ok.
So what if we don't win anything this year. Yeah it won't be great, but that isn't the reason we suuport AC Milan. We support them for many reasons:
The football they play
The players they have
The dignity in which they accept defeat
The highs and the lows
The team spirit
Because for some reason red and black is running through our veins.
So lets stop attacking the players (even if you think they are rubbish), the manager (who has won us so much with good football) and the hierarchy (who have blessed us with the likes of Maldini, Baresi, Ancelotti, Rijkaard, Gullit, Van Basten, Donadoni, Weah, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaka, the list goes on and on, and finally get behind our team.
Sometimes teams lose playing the best football in the world, its the way it goes, but lets not criticise our players or management anymore and lets become the extra person who helps OUR team get out of this difficult spell.
:5chore:
So the team is only playing for the amusement of its owners, right? You bring up a very good point of how they know how to do business and we don't. That is probably true! But what I do know is that when your team plays like crap, you are not doing your business right. I couldn't care less about how they want to run the team as long as the team is a winner. But when they turn my favorite team into a team that can lose to Empoli at home, even a know nothing like me know that there is something wrong. The owners never shut up about how they want to make the fans happy, they said it, not me! And frankly speaking, I am not happy about being out of the Serie A title race after 7 rounds of play. If this team is theirs, not the fans', maybe they should just close down the stadiums and watch the games themselves.
I agree like everyone has forgotten WHERE the money comes from (some of it anyway ;) ) I have 5 Milan jerseys the average price for one of them in Trinidad is $400......my Milan football is $200.00 And when I make my pilgramage to San Siro that is going to cost me a heap too.....If I want Quaresma and Aguero I don't think I am out of place in letting them know
Graeme C
11-11-2007, 12:15
ive signed the petition, but i have to agree i really doubt anyone will listen to us.
However if we dont buy this summer i can see Milan fans going crazy, it is natural for teams to reinforce every year. Its what teams do. I do really disagree with Milans transfer tactics, and the point that no other seria A or European team would put up with 36 year old semi injured players and having to play Ambrosini as a striker.
The best for us to hope for is a early champ league exit, and maybe a top 6 spot. In that case the management would have no other option but to buy.
Rayno_acm
11-11-2007, 13:09
ive signed the petition, but i have to agree i really doubt anyone will listen to us.
However if we dont buy this summer i can see Milan fans going crazy, it is natural for teams to reinforce every year. Its what teams do. I do really disagree with Milans transfer tactics, and the point that no other seria A or European team would put up with 36 year old semi injured players and having to play Ambrosini as a striker.
The best for us to hope for is a early champ league exit, and maybe a top 6 spot. In that case the management would have no other option but to buy.
No words needed :5milan:
Some people think that they have any idea what means to be a fan... :5dito:
This makes me sick... :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
I think NO one should be dogmatic to the extent that they freely cast aspersions as to who is a real fan and who isn't
Rayno_acm
11-11-2007, 16:25
...The best for us to hope for is a early champ league exit, and maybe a top 6 spot. In that case the management would have no other option but to buy.
Oh yeah?! :irritate:
Only a real "fan" could say such a thing... :irritate:
This leaves a bad taste in my mouth :yuck:
Shame, shame, shame... :5milan:
ACMILAN1983
11-11-2007, 16:39
The best for us to hope for is a early champ league exit, and maybe a top 6 spot. In that case the management would have no other option but to buy.
That makes no sense. You want the squad to fail so that we buy, but surely you want to buy so that we will be successful? Yet if we're successful with this squad, then you won't be happy because we haven't bought?
Graeme C
11-11-2007, 18:25
Oh yeah?! :irritate:
Only a real "fan" could say such a thing... :irritate:
This leaves a bad taste in my mouth :yuck:
Shame, shame, shame... :5milan:
Ok i was a bit blunt with what i said for which i apologise, i was just speaking my mind. If we win the champ league again can any of you realistically see our management making serious transfers? I loved to be proved wrong, and i really do hope we have a top 4 finish and reinforce properly next month and in the summer.
btw you really dont want to start accusing whos a real fan or not, as that would really be shaking up a beehive.
Rayno_acm
11-11-2007, 22:29
Don't you get it? Some transfers definitely will be made. That's inevitable, even if we somehow "win it all" simply because some players (atleast 5-6 of them) are playing their last season with us. :rolleyes:
So why bunch of you act like morrons? :rolleyes:
I thought the fans are supposed to support their beloved team in the good and in the bad. But it seems I was wrong. The fans support the team as long as the team is winning trophies. And if the team refuses to buy some fancy toys (a.k.a. players), the fans start to pray the team to lose it all, so in that way the management will "wake up" and will deliver the toys... :rolleyes:
Here we are again, with another petition, but a different objective. I know that we have done this before for Sheva and it didn't work (or did it? ), but this time it's intended for Milan's management and the sorry excuses of transfers we are getting every season:
http://www.petitiononline.com/Milan008/petition.html
Its from the same person that started the Sheva petition. Lets all join forces and sign this petition! Thanks!
Fully agree with the petition, already signed!
The best for us to hope for is a early champ league exit, and maybe a top 6 spot. In that case the management would have no other option but to buy.
Damn, it's really depressing to agree with a statement like that, but in fact I couldn't agree more with you, Graeme. :irritate:
Power to the poeple :D
YEAH!!!!!! :5ok: :5ok: :5ok:
Don't you get it? Some transfers definitely will be made. That's inevitable, even if we somehow "win it all" simply because some players (atleast 5-6 of them) are playing their last season with us. :rolleyes:
So why bunch of you act like morrons? :rolleyes:
I thought the fans are supposed to support their beloved team in the good and in the bad. But it seems I was wrong. The fans support the team as long as the team is winning trophies. And if the team refuses to buy some fancy toys (a.k.a. players), the fans start to pray the team to lose it all, so in that way the management will "wake up" and will deliver the toys... :rolleyes:
Just because our stance is a tad different from the perspective of the mods here doesn't make us morons (then again maybe it does :( ) At any rate do you really think it's sensible even in the shocking event that the "5-6" players that you assert are in their last season to have at least had one season grooming them as replacements :dontkn:
As for fans supporting their team all the time...sure that is what all true fans do....I would personally NEVER wish a loss for Milan at ANY time. But you DO have to understand the point that some are making that it seems that in order for us to have the problem fixed perhaps things need to get worse so as to be visible enough to embarrass management into action......obviously their toleration of reverses is more of a financial nature than a sporting one.
As fans who contribute heavily to the finances of the club I think it only fair that our opinions be expressed. BTW those "fancy toys" are actually tools for maintaining the prestige of playing for the best club ever. We can't be the best club without the best players
ACMILAN1983
12-11-2007, 13:23
This petition is nothing short of a joke imo, so much so when I was first shown it to sign I actually found it amusing and quite honestly, pathetic. Unlike the Sheva petition, which was viewed globally as a sign of respect and commitment from Rossoneri globally towards the player, this petition is simply whining about the management.
It starts off with making a joke at Inter's expense, which isn't the right way to start things if you're trying to be taken seriously. Then of course there's the point about having a healthy balance between youth and experience, suggesting the balance is now lost, but hitmannq8 has recently shown the average age of the squad, which was 31 (hardly disasterous and definitely going down next summer when Maldini and most probably Cafu and others retire/leave). The average age of the starting lineup is 29, most commonly an age where most players are considered to be around their peak (early to mid 30's for defenders and GKs), so again hardly a disaster.
The complaints about us only buying players once the big teams have had their pick of the best players is senseless. The only real high profile signings made this last summer (I'm not even going to bother with the summer before) were Henry and Toni, and to a lesser degree Ribery (who had done nothing to suggest he was worth what Bayern paid), in addition to overspending on hyped talent. Out of these 3, Henry decided to go for the greater wage benefits that Spain offers (probably in addition to him probably not being to keen to go back to Italy under the coach he failed with at Juve). Toni was a possible target for Milan, but let's take a look at the wider picture. Firstly, he would easily demand a place in the side (which is fair), meaning either Pippo, Gila or Pato were sacrificed from the squad. I doubt many would want to sacrifice the younger players for a 30 year old (and in that respect I bet we'd still hear complaints as Toni wouldn't reduce the average age) and Pippo is too loved at the club and by the fans to lose his spot. We may be short on strikers right now, but we're hardly going to buy someone like Toni for half a season to make up numbers.
Finally, there's Ribery, who like I've already said didn't warrant the pricetag Bayern paid for him. He's another who'd be looking to command a first team spot for which he'd have to look to beat out Seedorf or Kaka (not likely in either case). Finally, if we did purchase him, what would happen to the youngsters we're trying to groom for the attacking midfielder roles for the future, such as Gourcuff and Di Gennaro, both of who are tipped for big futures?
Also, who are these players we buy that other clubs of our stature wouldn't buy for free? In the past year we've brought Ronaldo, Oddo, Grimi, Storari, Pato and Emerson. Ronaldo was a risk but few clubs would have argued at buying him for the price we did (and he's been worth it). Oddo is argubly the best RB in Italy, Storari is a good goalkeeper that most big clubs would happily pay for as second choice (we had him as our third choice), Pato is considered the brightest young talent in football and Emerson was brought for a pretty high price by Real (a club of our stature I'd say) just a year ago. Only Grimi seems a strange choice in that list.
The only aspect that I agree with this petition is that we've been short on forwards so far this year (in which case I'd have kept Oliveira until Pato was available). Other than that the only real transfer we needed imo was a new world class LB.
I don't see any genuine correlation between our transfer campaign and our form this season either. For starters, with a weaker squad during the second half of last season, we managed to go from the lower half of the table to fourth spot, along the way managing one of the highest totals of points collected during that half of the season in the league. This evidence shows the squad is capable of doing well in the league, they did it only half a year ago.
It's also evidence that there should be the depth required to perform at a high level in the league, because the physical condition of the squad last season was awful due to the previous summer, and so Ancelotti was forced to regularly rotate (thus using the whole squad).
Then of course there's the reality of the squad and where it's at. If our transfer campaign was the reason of our poor league performance, then we should at least still be around 4th spot if not challenging for the league at this point, as we still have a lot of quality in the side (more than almost anyone in the league) that's capable of much much more. Similarly, if the age was the issue, then we'd be seeing the big drop in the level of performance at the end of the season when players are fatigued, not at the start.
Finally, there's the issue with consistency. Our home form is atrocious, there's no doubt about it, but away we've managed 10 points out of a possible 15, and ironically, one of our best performances of the season against Palermo ended in a loss. Now Inter have managed 8 points out of 12 away from home, and they're currently the ones who are setting the benchmark as they top the league. Comparing the two I'd say we're pretty even with the league leaders in this respect, but it's our home form that's left us in our predicament. Again, this inconsistency seems to have very little to do with our transfers, as half of the time we're showing the desired quality (often even beyond what we expect) and other times we're performing well below our capabilities.
I'm not saying the managements been perfect, and do feel they've made some mistakes, but us fans seem to have absolutely no clue as to what we want. We want to build for the long term future but aren't willing go a season without great success. We want immediate success yet want youth injected in the squad. We want the youth to play yet we want success they're not capable of achieving.
Just because our stance is a tad different from the perspective of the mods here doesn't make us morons (then again maybe it does :( )
I suggest you be very careful with your choice of words
dru, if you were trying to be funny with that line Dev quoted above, you were not... you're very good at that with pretty much everything else... and you should know that although your sense of humor is not well taken many times by some members (and some mods, yes) there are others who have defended you behind closed doors.
And regarding to the topic... Dev explained with words, numbers and facts...
we HAVE our Milan back... we ARE a winning team... so we've had a slow start... big deal...
To Dev: the stance of the mods (yourself, :v408: Jeff :w221: and Sant= the mods that have commented thus far) have made it clear that their position is that the petition is nonsensical (or "nothing short of a joke"). There are others who respectfully disagree. The statement was factual and neither malicious nor disrespectful.
Of course you are well within your rights to take this and any statement in whatever light you deem fit and react with whatever threat that suits your fancy. The idea of us all being a family is fast evaporating for me. If a differing opinion is that distasteful to you...once again you are well within your rights to act as you deem fit. If you think that these repeated threats are having their desired effect then you are sadly mistaken. I have been a milan fan for some time now and I believe this petition is a well meaning, perhaps a bit unprofessional, attempt at restoring the honour of the club which is quickly becoming the laughingstock by football fans in general.
We live in a technologically more advanced era and the thought of humbly appealing to management through a petition- rather than booing (which I will never do to my beloved milan) or waving white handkerchiefs waving insulting banners etc- is actually quite attractive and classy imho. Whether or not mangaement chooses to acknowledge our request is another matter entirely but I personally feel that I have done my duty by signing the petition rather than just to mindlessly scream "forza milan" when everything around us is crumbling. If you love your team (again simply my opinion) you will do all in your power...however small to protect it and to promote it's interests everywhere (as I type this I have on my Milan Jersey under my coverall :proud: )
Ancelotti has begged for reinforcements and has been ignored. The man should get a title himself for the wonders he has worked with our visible imperfections.....Perhaps this may well be the last hurdle that restrains Don Berlu from reaching foir his pocket book. Whatever happens the real fans would still be there. We would continue to buy jerseys and merchandise or tickets for those living in Italy or Europe. But I am a believer in loving with your eyes open.....not because you love someone/something means that you shouldn't try to improve it or be blind to it's faults. Love should come inspite of the faults. :5ok:
If we are ignored, ridiculed (as I am very often for being a milan fan and even here), laughed at, banned from internet forums or insulted for our stance it shouldn't matter because we know our support for our love is as wholehearted as it is passionate. A true Milan fan should be nothing less.
:respect:
dru, if you were trying to be funny with that line Dev quoted above, you were not... you're very good at that with pretty much everything else... and you should know that although your sense of humor is not well taken many times by some members (and some mods, yes) there are others who have defended you behind closed doors.
And regarding to the topic... Dev explained with words, numbers and facts...
we HAVE our Milan back... we ARE a winning team... so we've had a slow start... big deal...
I am very happy to know that I have been defended. I really appreciate that :5ok: Honestly I thought that I was becoming public enemy #1 :(
However I can't agree that our milan is back....not until at least we get some production of the strike force...whether it be Ronaldo's return, Gila's return to form or Pato fulfiling a significant % of our expectations. I have carefully examined the stats and figures posted by Dev and I fully appreciate his dispassionate approach to it all. But as a passionate fan it pains me to see that the simple truth is that for all practical purposes, we are often unable to score a goal in a tight match, we have no width and ALL of our creativity is heavily dependant upon Kaka and to a lesser degree upon Seedorf and even less upon Pirlo (ronaldo is excluded because he hasn't played a minute for us as yet.)
I don't mind losing...as long as we are bested by our opponents....but often times of late we lose because our opponents aren't as bad as us. This is depressing..... and has happened vs Celtic, Roma and Empoli. The matches we lost to Inter I enjoyed because I saw a good fighting Milan....the final scorelines didn't matter....truth be told Inter owned us for long periods and deserved their win. What I DON'T like is seeing teams come to play us KNOWING that as long as their defence and finishing isn't as bad as our's they'll win/draw. And there is NO one that can convince me that the smaller teams don't try to defend for their dear lives when playing Roma, Inter, Juve, Fio and Lazio. It's arrogant for us to think that we are sooooo much better than everyone that we will always play before the most inspired of defences who live in perpetual fear of our attack.
Originally Posted by Marco3
Personally I wouldn't swap Ancelotti for anyone and if we make a few good signings in the summer we should be ok.
So what if we don't win anything this year. Yeah it won't be great, but that isn't the reason we suuport AC Milan. We support them for many reasons:
The football they play
The players they have
The dignity in which they accept defeat
The highs and the lows
The team spirit
Lots of people took marco's post for a holy truth. I disagree with almost every other thing mentioned here (still its a good spirit pumping read), but i'll just be short with this part...
If we make a few good signings in the summer...? Is there a chance i can read this one in november 2008 again? Cos i read it in 2006 for sure and no, hardly ANY signing was made in summer.
Footall they play... it was written couple of times this season on MM already, "that was the worst performance for a while/in season". And it came from true milan fans. I saw milan players walking on the pitch with goal down against lowlives in san siro, 10 minutes before the end of the match and they didnt even TRIED to run. I support them, but when they actually play football.
Players they have... some of them should be retired (a fact) and some do not deserve to wear milan shirt (ok a bit spoiled here, but close to a fact). Some of them should be rightfully benched/rested... but they are not. Because we obviously dont have players we need (again, agreed by almost every milan fan).
The dignity in defeat... talking about ambro and many others dealing more with judge than ball when loosing? Or about statement on official milan site about how we were robbed by judging (nevermind we played like crap in most of these games - look first point)?
The team and their spirit is the real reason. And i said it too many times, i dont mind team loosing if they try and fight. Supporters should be behind the team no matter what but the players can take a day off in the middle of the milan-roma match? Or worse, just play like $$it and loose to empoli in front of home crowd and blame referee's and empty seats afterwards?
Not that i am for this petition since i dont believe it will help anyway, but saying how some of us are bad because we dont have our utopic red&black glasses on non-stop...
ACMILAN1983
12-11-2007, 16:43
To Dev: the stance of the mods (yourself, :v408: Jeff :w221: and Sant= the mods that have commented thus far) have made it clear that their position is that the petition is nonsensical (or "nothing short of a joke"). There are others who respectfully disagree. The statement was factual and neither malicious nor disrespectful.
You're right, most of the mods have gone against this petition, but you fail to acknowledge other posters who have as well. The fact is you've differentiated between mods and regular posters when there was no need for it, as the mods who posted in this thread have posted their opinions as regular posters. Now considering that everytime you've done this it results in you trying to make yourself out to be a victim against the big bad mods, when in most cases you've incited the trouble, I'm warning you ahead of time, don't do it as it's incredibly disrespectful to the mods who often work hard to keep the place in order to repeatedly pick them out as targeting you, when all they do is offer their opinion.
You're right, most of the mods have gone against this petition, but you fail to acknowledge other posters who have as well. The fact is you've differentiated between mods and regular posters when there was no need for it, as the mods who posted in this thread have posted their opinions as regular posters. Now considering that everytime you've done this it results in you trying to make yourself out to be a victim against the big bad mods, when in most cases you've incited the trouble, I'm warning you ahead of time, don't do it as it's incredibly disrespectful to the mods who often work hard to keep the place in order to repeatedly pick them out as targeting you, when all they do is offer their opinion.
That was NEVER my intention. I really mean that :p155: It just seems to me as common pleb on the forum that sometimes you guys try to suppress any expression that differs to yours. The fact that you seem very united in your efforts a well doesn't look too comforting either. I found it strange that the other users differed in opinion about the usefulness of the petition but all the mods concur.
Actually I DO feel like a victim sometimes when it seems that my concerns are either laughed at scornfully or disregarded completely while the opinions of others are viewed as the golden gospel itself. For instance during the time when the "winter mercato thread" was called the "summer mercato" thread......I and a few others were very vociferous in expressing that the team was sorely lacking certain reinforcements.......MANY of the mods mocked me and made it look like I was just a bad news bear. I was inundated with patronizing comments like can player X really replace our (insert current milan player here). I think our present results show that we DID need the necessary reinforcements....and now that we have a chance to do SOMETHING, however small to help our cause you resume the mockery and call what I believe to be an earnest plea to Berluscconi. It's kinda depressing.
But if that's really just your individual opinions then I completely respect them. It was just how I saw it. :respect:
I appreciate your responding to me in a dignified manner and I will assure you again and prove by my subsequent actions that I NEVER meant any disrespect.
P.S. CAFU is comming to Trinidad this Friday :eekani:
I'll try to take some pics with him :5ok:
It just seems to me as common pleb on the forum that sometimes you guys try to suppress any expression that differs to yours.
The fact that you seem very united in your efforts a well doesn't look too comforting either.
I found it strange that the other users differed in opinion about the usefulness of the petition but all the mods concur.
But if that's really just your individual opinions then I completely respect them. It was just how I saw it. :respect:
1) If there are things that we agree on, we don't say 'we agree'. There are a lot of things that I do agree with but I never post it. IN fact, I agree with most of the things people say. And that's why you only find it when I write when I don't agree with things. For example, I woudln't go in length why we need ROnaldo or Pato. You and other posters have already pointed that out, and I do agree with what you most say.
2) "you guys" is inappropriate. All posts are expressed on an individual basis. There is no thread in the mod forum that says, "Let's bash this thread".
It is also important to note that I don't think anyone here thinks that the mods are 'united' to surpress any opinions posted except, perhaps, you because you feel, for whatever reasons, that the mods are against you.
The answer is no. You have been defended in the mod forum.
3) There are non-mods members who disagree. This hints at the fact that you are only seeing what you want to see (which is perfectly acceptable). I would have fallen into the same trap if I think "whatever dru said is wrong". But I don't think I have ever said / thought like this. Some of your posts are good, but you don't see us appreciate it. Instead, you only see incidents when mods don't agree with you.
4) Yes; it's completely based on individual basis.
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One of the things that this petition bugs me really is that I feel that Milan fans (i.e., we) are really spoilt; once we don't get results, we start to complain; some people say sack Ancelotti; some say the management suck; some say Gila is awful; some say ...
But if you take a step back, look at what Milan has achieved for the past 5 years, hardly any of these accusations will stand (except the Gila case). Not buying new young players? How about Kaka, Pato, Gourcuff? Management not doing a good job? How about Pirlo, Seedorf? Sacking Ancelotti? 2 CL trophies (and should have been 3 really) in the past 5 years in which NO ONE has done it recently...
And yet, because of a string of poor results (and I'mnot sure if it's a string because Milan has been amazing away but surprisingly awful at home), and fans begin to complain?
We have seen this in many other clubs before: Real Madrid (switching players); Cheslea (with the incident with Jose M.) etc. and none of them so far has achieved what they wanted to achieve, namely winning the CL or the La Liga (or both). Isn't it ironic, after all, that Capello, who led the RM team to come back and beat Barcelona last year in La Liga, got sacked? Isn't it ironic that Jose M., a coach that brought two EPL trophies to CHelsea's cabinet, was sacked just because a few bad games?
And how are they doing now? Any better you would say?
If Milan is selling Kaka to Real Madrid for money, and people start a petition against it, I'll be the first one to sign it. There are reasons for why NOT signing it (and some other people disagree and sign it, which is completely OK).
THis is how it's baffling you think that the 'mods' are a gang who always go together against some ideas. It's not; it's simply that we mods do share similar INDIVIDUAL opinions.
1) If there are things that we agree on, we don't say 'we agree'. There are a lot of things that I do agree with but I never post it. IN fact, I agree with most of the things people say. And that's why you only find it when I write when I don't agree with things. For example, I woudln't go in length why we need ROnaldo or Pato. You and other posters have already pointed that out, and I do agree with what you most say.
2) "you guys" is inappropriate. All posts are expressed on an individual basis. There is no thread in the mod forum that says, "Let's bash this thread".
It is also important to note that I don't think anyone here thinks that the mods are 'united' to surpress any opinions posted except, perhaps, you because you feel, for whatever reasons, that the mods are against you.
The answer is no. You have been defended in the mod forum.
3) There are non-mods members who disagree. This hints at the fact that you are only seeing what you want to see (which is perfectly acceptable). I would have fallen into the same trap if I think "whatever dru said is wrong". But I don't think I have ever said / thought like this. Some of your posts are good, but you don't see us appreciate it. Instead, you only see incidents when mods don't agree with you.
4) Yes; it's completely based on individual basis.
**************************************************
One of the things that this petition bugs me really is that I feel that Milan fans (i.e., we) are really spoilt; once we don't get results, we start to complain; some people say sack Ancelotti; some say the management suck; some say Gila is awful; some say ...
But if you take a step back, look at what Milan has achieved for the past 5 years, hardly any of these accusations will stand (except the Gila case). Not buying new young players? How about Kaka, Pato, Gourcuff? Management not doing a good job? How about Pirlo, Seedorf? Sacking Ancelotti? 2 CL trophies (and should have been 3 really) in the past 5 years in which NO ONE has done it recently...
And yet, because of a string of poor results (and I'mnot sure if it's a string because Milan has been amazing away but surprisingly awful at home), and fans begin to complain?
We have seen this in many other clubs before: Real Madrid (switching players); Cheslea (with the incident with Jose M.) etc. and none of them so far has achieved what they wanted to achieve, namely winning the CL or the La Liga (or both). Isn't it ironic, after all, that Capello, who led the RM team to come back and beat Barcelona last year in La Liga, got sacked? Isn't it ironic that Jose M., a coach that brought two EPL trophies to CHelsea's cabinet, was sacked just because a few bad games?
And how are they doing now? Any better you would say?
If Milan is selling Kaka to Real Madrid for money, and people start a petition against it, I'll be the first one to sign it. There are reasons for why NOT signing it (and some other people disagree and sign it, which is completely OK).
THis is how it's baffling you think that the 'mods' are a gang who always go together against some ideas. It's not; it's simply that we mods do share similar INDIVIDUAL opinions.
Points well taken...and again I humbly apologize. What I said was how I truly felt, and in truth I was laughed at alot for even offering suggestions to our lack of width......even Mrki was ridiculed by another mod when he suggested Rothen. Nevertheless, now that you have made your point clear I won't even hint at it anymore :respect: I hope we can be frineds one day Jeff really I do. I want to be friends with all real milanistas. At least I hope that we reach the point of not annoying the crap put of each other :5ok:
i don't think we are spoilt....at the start of the season I said that I don't care what happens this season even if we get relegated I'll be getting my milan jersey with a big "RONALDO 99" emblazoned on the back :o
However what we DO mind (and I think I speak for many here) is seeing that the team HAS the POTENTIAL AND the ABILITY to win....maybe three signings ONLY will do the JOB and we prefer to rest on our laurels and let go to waste all the good we have. And I will continue to oppose anyone who condones this sort of laziness........ Get beat up get thrashed...that's fine but don't give up and don't play with our hearts..... When Borussia and Depor put four past us....I felt hurt...but I wasn't ANGRY (well maybe a little bit with Cafu and Carlo in the Depor game :nervous: ).....but THIS team makes me angry....and it's not even the team's fault....our left side has been problematic for SOME time now....Maldini, Kaladze and Janku are not bona fide LB....neither is Serginho (defensively anyway) How many times have we had the opportunities to solve this problem and just let things slip....I am in NO way ungrateful for our successes....but why settle for good when it takes just a little more to be great?
well good point; and I guess where the opinions (not just you and me; but we as fans and the management) differ.
There are several possibilities:
I think the management believes that we already have the resources to succeed (with Pato and a healthy Ronaldo). OR: The management has tried (which we didn't know) but failed, for whatever reasons (e.g., $$ for Henry; English for Sheva). OR: The managment did not believe that adding these new bloods will immediately solve the problem; or it will solve the problem but will create other problems that exceeds the benefit.
Example: Cassano could have been a great buy a few years ago, but I would vote against it because he was (is) such a trouble maker. Could he solve our problem? perhaps. Could he make more problems? more likely. Decision: Reject.
Example: Henry. Could he solve our problem? Absolutely. Could he make omre problems? Yes, coz of the $$$ (see earlier post why $$$ is a concern). Decision: Sad Reject.
Example: Torres: Could he solve our problem? Likely, or perhaps. COuld he make more problems? probably not. Decision: Difficult to decide. Wait till we run out of alternatives.
Example: Pato: Could he solve the problem? Potentially; Could he make more problems? Probably not. Added competitive advantage? Very young and promising. Decision: Buy.
That sort of argument... - J
p.s.: I'm sorry if you feel ridiculed. Bear in mind, though, that being a Mod should not prevent a mod from expressing their opinion because they are mod (though to certain extent yes we watch our words). Perhaps your post will serve as a good reminder.
Rayno_acm
13-11-2007, 07:06
Just because our stance is a tad different from the perspective of the mods here doesn't make us morons (then again maybe it does :( ) At any rate do you really think it's sensible even in the shocking event that the "5-6" players that you assert are in their last season to have at least had one season grooming them as replacements :dontkn:
As for fans supporting their team all the time...sure that is what all true fans do....I would personally NEVER wish a loss for Milan at ANY time. But you DO have to understand the point that some are making that it seems that in order for us to have the problem fixed perhaps things need to get worse so as to be visible enough to embarrass management into action......obviously their toleration of reverses is more of a financial nature than a sporting one.
As fans who contribute heavily to the finances of the club I think it only fair that our opinions be expressed. BTW those "fancy toys" are actually tools for maintaining the prestige of playing for the best club ever. We can't be the best club without the best players
Hey, dru, I'm so sorry if you felt offended, but actually I've never called you "a morron" :str: I said that some people are "acting like morrons" :uhm: and I never meant you. I :respect: you too much, you're the funniest guy here and you make this place more pleasant. When you're joking, I just... :haha: So I had no intention to argue with you. If I have to really, really, really honest, I meant what the autor of the thread said and that bull$#it Graeme said...
But here's how I see things.
Like Dev said, just couple of months these players showed, that they are able to deliver the results we want. The management decided to give them another chance, and now they failing to deliver the results. OK, changes will be made. And when I said atleast 5-6 players will leave us, I meant Maldini, Cafu, Favalli, Simic, Serginho and maybe Inzaghi or/and Ronaldo.
IMHO the reason for the terrible performance at the home matches is like you said the lack of the width in some positions. Not becouse we lack players, but becouse theplayers don't perform as they should.
We had 2 big problems. We lack a Sheva-type striker. Unfortunatelly nobody expected Ronaldo to be away for so long. But for me the bigger problem is that we lack decent fullbacks. Since we don't use wingers, the fullback are essential for width of our attacks.
Look at the season 2005-2006, when we scored 85 goals in the 38 matches in Serie A. Then we attacked with atleast 6 players - the both strikers (Sheva and Pippo, Sheva and Gila, even Pippo and Gila), 3 midfileders (Kaka', Seedorf and Pirlo) and atleast one of the fullbacks (Serginho, Stam, Cafu). I'm not even mentioning Gattuso. Such attacking force is very hard to be stopped.
An year ago (2004-2005) in one momment we had only one striker available (Crespo), but we had decent fullbacks (Cafu, Serginho, Stam, Kaladze, even Maldini...) and we continued to win our matches.
For me Jankulovski and Oddo are not good enough for us. They can not be effective in attack and in the same time in defence. They manage to shine in one of 10 matches, but this is not enough. We even are forced to use much more Cafu and Serginho, who were supposed to stay on the bench. Yeah, I know, Janku is now injured, but we had problems even when he was available. And Oddo deffinately isn't the best Italian RB, as I remember last year when Italy won WC2006, Oddo wasn't in the starting XI, which means there is someone better than him. May be he was the best Italian RB available, but this is another story.
So in this way, the only ones, who are capable to create something, are the 3 midfielders, Kaka', Seedorf and Pirlo.
So in that way we have a perfect team for counter attacks - line of midfielders with Ambro, Pirlo and Rino, who win a lot of balls, we had Pirlo and Seedorf, who are capable to send a perfect long pass and one Kaka', who is deadly in open spaces. We're deadly when we counter attack. But this do not work at home, we can't score the vital first goal to open the match. That's why we get such results.
And the players, who probbably will leaves, are exactly from these departments: fullbacks and strikers. So this definatelly mean that we will buy new players, we can't stay only with midfileders... :grinser:
So guys, be more patient, the management can't do anything right now, wait for the transfer campaign to be opened. :bri:
And one more thing, dru, you said Cafu is comming to TnT, these days Carletto is in Bulgaria (http://www.acmilan.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=56149) :devf:
I could give more and bigger pics, but in this forum only files non bigger than 100KB could be attached...
Hey, dru, I'm so sorry if you felt offended, but actually I've never called you "a morron" :str: I said that some people are "acting like morrons" :uhm: and I never meant you. I :respect: you too much, you're the funniest guy here and you make this place more pleasant. When you're joking, I just... :haha: So I had no intention to argue with you. If I have to really, really, really honest, I meant what the autor of the thread said and that bull$#it Graeme said...
But here's how I see things.
Like Dev said, just couple of months these players showed, that they are able to deliver the results we want. The management decided to give them another chance, and now they failing to deliver the results. OK, changes will be made. And when I said atleast 5-6 players will leave us, I meant Maldini, Cafu, Favalli, Simic, Serginho and maybe Inzaghi or/and Ronaldo.
IMHO the reason for the terrible performance at the home matches is like you said the lack of the width in some positions. Not becouse we lack players, but becouse theplayers don't perform as they should.
We had 2 big problems. We lack a Sheva-type striker. Unfortunatelly nobody expected Ronaldo to be away for so long. But for me the bigger problem is that we lack decent fullbacks. Since we don't use wingers, the fullback are essential for width of our attacks.
Look at the season 2005-2006, when we scored 85 goals in the 38 matches in Serie A. Then we attacked with atleast 6 players - the both strikers (Sheva and Pippo, Sheva and Gila, even Pippo and Gila), 3 midfileders (Kaka', Seedorf and Pirlo) and atleast one of the fullbacks (Serginho, Stam, Cafu). I'm not even mentioning Gattuso. Such attacking force is very hard to be stopped.
An year ago (2004-2005) in one momment we had only one striker available (Crespo), but we had decent fullbacks (Cafu, Serginho, Stam, Kaladze, even Maldini...) and we continued to win our matches.
For me Jankulovski and Oddo are not good enough for us. They can not be effective in attack and in the same time in defence. They manage to shine in one of 10 matches, but this is not enough. We even are forced to use much more Cafu and Serginho, who were supposed to stay on the bench. Yeah, I know, Janku is now injured, but we had problems even when he was available. And Oddo deffinately isn't the best Italian RB, as I remember last year when Italy won WC2006, Oddo wasn't in the starting XI, which means there is someone better than him. May be he was the best Italian RB available, but this is another story.
So in this way, the only ones, who are capable to create something, are the 3 midfielders, Kaka', Seedorf and Pirlo.
So in that way we have a perfect team for counter attacks - line of midfielders with Ambro, Pirlo and Rino, who win a lot of balls, we had Pirlo and Seedorf, who are capable to send a perfect long pass and one Kaka', who is deadly in open spaces. We're deadly when we counter attack. But this do not work at home, we can't score the vital first goal to open the match. That's why we get such results.
And the players, who probbably will leaves, are exactly from these departments: fullbacks and strikers. So this definatelly mean that we will buy new players, we can't stay only with midfileders...
So guys, be more patient, the management can't do anything right now, wait for the transfer campaign to be opened.
And one more thing, dru, you said Cafu is comming to TnT, these days Carletto is in Bulgaria (http://www.acmilan.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=56149)
I could give more and bigger pics, but in this forum only files non bigger than 100KB could be attached...
Peace and love :whie: to all :D
Thanks for your kind words.
:respect:
Mr. Anonymous
13-11-2007, 12:01
Now that we've cleared the air....
GROUP HUG!!!
:27rr:
will it be too late for me?
coz i just got here, and, well this is my first post, greets to all of you :grinser:
i sign that petition...
Good evening one and all.
Slightly off topic with regards to the petition, I have been reading these forums for approximately 3 years now if not longer but until recently haven't posted. From the discussion and the points made by Drucurl and the mods, everyone wants exactly the same thing; for their team which they support so proudly to be the best in the world.
Now lets be fair, unfortunately it is not only good enough to be the best in the world, you have to be recognised as being the best.
For this I mean that for the last couple of years I would immagine that people other then Milan fans have probably seen Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelona as being regarded as the best in the world (Not my opinion, but unfortunately those of my friends at work who wind me up on a daily basis about it). The reason being? They've made some big name signings. Now don't get me wrong, big name signings do not a good team make (Real Madrid anyone Zidane, Beckham, Figo years potentially could have been amazing)
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't feel it is necessary to sign this petition. Reason being? Milan are one of the best teams in the world. Am I biased? Ofcourse!!! And I always will be because I'm a ROSSONERI!!! In truth? Still Ofcourse!!! Why?
Look at our record. 3 Champions League Finals in 5 years. 2 Victories in 5 years! Ok we've stumbled in Serie A recently but with the exception of last year we've always been there or there abouts.
Internationally one of the most successful teams. :respect:
The point I'm trying to make and I have said this in a previous post is that I would not change the core players who play for Milan, I would not change the manager (I really think it would be very hard to replace Ancellotti, bearing in mind by the looks of things he doesn't buy the players), and I certainly wouldn't change the management who have bought/given us such wonderful players as Gullit, Van Basten, Donadoni, Weah, Maldini, Kaka, Rui Costa, Nesta, Shevchenko, Ronaldo, the list goes on.
I mean come on look at that list!!!
It has been difficult for Milan to make a massive splash on the market recently because of the scandal, and before that why would they change a team that has done so well.
I understand the moderators stance as I have said, I would not sign the petition but at the same time I see everyone's point, to be classed as truely great, we need to go back to the days where if Milan wanted someone they got them, and I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that part of the reason Milan hasn't spent big is that next year Ronaldinho may be coming. Some people I'm sure think he wouldn't be good for the team, but I disagree. A change is always good for everyone and even if we only saw his best for two years, with his and Kaka's marketing potential (unfortunately this counts these days), Milan could be as huge as they deserve to be.
Everyone has their own opinion and thankfully it is these opinions which has enabled this website to be created, for banter to be exchanged, for appreciation to be shared and friends to be made.
We are all here for one common reason..............................
To show our love, passion and commitment for AC Milan.
Lets not let our opinions get in the way of it to such an extent. We have an Interista and a Juventino who post here, and I appreciate their comments and views as much as the next person. :1five:
Always good to get anothers perspective :5ok:
So chins up, we really do support one of the best teams in the world, the facts prove it and so do our hearts. Lets not jump on the people who have made this great team at the first sign of trouble. I'm sure they are every bit aware of our problems as we are. Difference being, we don't have to balance the books with our dreams.
Forza Milan,
Forza everyone here!!!!!!!
Cheers
ACMILAN1983
14-11-2007, 03:18
I understand the moderators stance as I have said, I would not sign the petition
As I said to drucurl, though the moderators (who have posted) generally seemed to have similar opinions of the petition, it is not the "moderators stance". We are as individuals posting our opinions.
Hi ACMILAN1983, I should have been more careful with how I worded that statement. I didn't mean that it was a collective decision and agree that it is individuals opinions. :bri:
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