View Full Version : Milan should improve its marketing
Giovanni
10-05-2008, 05:30
Why EPL teams earn so much? Why a successful club like Milan can't earn as well ? What's EPL team's secret ? They invested a lot in marketing, something italian clubs don't (or do, but not so well).
I think Milan should start to invest in marketing, in selling its image worldwide in more efficient ways. We're popular because we've been successful, but many EPL clubs who don't win a throphy since the times of Cartage are as well popular in the world. How comes ?
I think Serie A as a whole should massively improve its image, and make studies about getting a fresher and more entertaining appeal. If custumers will think Serie A is getting better and better, we'll have an improvement in tv rights.
Stadiums should be dramatically changed. Facilities are horrible.
What can we do about it? We could be a club that have a positive balance, instead of having every year a negative one. Clubs like Manchester Utd can spend because they have a positive income in itself, regardless of the major shareholders investments.
I think we should make something about it. A club like Milan should definitely be in top three list of richest clubs in the world.
hany.Egypt
10-05-2008, 06:02
Let me answer you question with another one, why did Italain league lost its popularity ot at least part of it? I mean in the early 90s till the begining of the new millennium Seria A was considered as the best championship in entire Europe and all Itralian teams including realativly small once Including relatively small once like Lazio were able to pay big in fact bigger than teams like Barcelona and co then they started year by year lose fans and earn less pay less and so on, why? Is it because they are not marketing them selves? Of course not, they were like any other business in the world trying to get better year by year.
I don't know how could I explain this but its not Italy that failed to market its self its customers/fans who don't want to watch Seria A any more! Those who studied marketing will understand exactly what I want to say, Marketing is a very difficult Job because there is a natural behavior by customers towards a certain product which usually used to be their favorite, they decide to say no without explanation or reason I guess it's called Product Life Cycle or something like that this behavior has nothing to do with the quality of the product but with the desire to change, so it does happen and no one can do any thing to deny it.
So it was Seria a in the past and then EPL now and Probably LFP or Bundsliga in the future all what Milan marketing department can do is to concentrate on their success whether it was another champions league title or another Ballon d'ore winner or another young promising player like Pato who Milan has made great working in marketing him before he even touches the ball.
Interesting point you bring up Giovanni, and as someone who is being marketed to (an American who now has 3 totally dedicated channels to football), I can try to lend a perspective. I've also traveled to matches in all the major footballing countries (including Finland and Russia!!) so I think I've got a diverse viewpoint in being there as well.
First, I want to counter Hany's point that it is the fans/customers who have failed. If you are in marketing my friend, you will be quick out of a job with that attitude. It is NEVER the customers' fault, and if you want to excuse something like the decline on "Product Life Cycle", well that is a big cop-out. It is ALWAYS the marketer's job to reinvent, refresh, and recycle the same old thing so that we want to see it again! So I think it is very foolish to blame the fan.
Ok, so back to the usual things that point to the downfall of serie A. First, stadiums are atrocious. They are falling apart, cavernous, fans are away from the pitch, they are dangerous. There has been no upkeep in them. From my first visit to italy in 94 from my last one in 2007, there has been no really visible changes. The seats still suck, I am still far away, and now there are less people so it seems like even more of a wasteland. Plus, nets and cages and plexiglass are still up, and that is something you will not find ANYWHERE in England.
Ticket prices are an interesting thing, and this is where I think you can put the blame on the product and the stadium. In england, most tickets are so expensive, the cheapest to Arsenal is like 32 pounds, but i paid like 15 euros for milan. Also, season tickets in england run to the thousands while in italy you can get milan for like 270 euro. So that makes if financially viable to go to a game, but where are the folks? Well, they are jaded by the violence. They are jaded by calciopoli. They are bored with the pace of matches. They have seen the best players leave the league. Why? Because the teams and league refuse to change its way of play. Entertainment is supposed to be fun and exciting. If you flip on the tube and watch an EPL game even between Bolton and Wigan, the fans are rocking, they are right on the pitch, the game is fast, the names are known, the commentators are upping it, all because they BELIEVE it is the best. Conversely, you flip on the tube to watch serie A, the sound is dead, the comments are bored, there are no fans, nobody knows the names, and the play is slow. (In no way is this meant to be an endorsement of who plays the better football, this is just the reality as people see it). Now that football is available all the time, all over, you better have the best. And the EPL has the best names, most international, most appealing, fastest pace, etc. They built their hype and it works.
This brings me to TV. I can watch about 8 EPL games each weekend on Fox or Setanta. They are always given first billing, and bump any other games out of the way, no matter what. There is a whole new culture of the EPL in the world, because their marketers invented it, and people bought it. Serie A used to be on Fox and GolTV, but now it is limited to Fox. At best we get 3 games, but usually 2. There is no fanfare or talk about Italy, the games come on, the comments and sounds suck, and it is left to die. Hell, even MLS is getting more play on TV.
At the end of the day, people are caught up in the hype and speed of the EPL. There is less and less appreciation of tactical football or defensive football, and for new fans, most want the most accessible and easiest product to get into.
So, the million dollar question is, how do we change it? Well, we need to fix the stadiums. They are absolute ****e. And without the stadiums full and rocking, the product just doesn't seem as good. Hell, MLS stadiums seem to have more atmosphere than some italian ones (at least on TV).
Also, it is embarrasing to turn on the TV and see mostly Italian and Spanish fans now getting put in the hooligan category-rarely is there anything about English fans anymore. In america, all the press about the roma v manchester fracas was about how terrible italian police are. And also, the champions league where anders frisk got coined, dida flopping around against celtic, these are all being shown and disparaged in worldwide television audiences, and it embarasses the championship.
I think italy needs to recreate its whole championship, but I don't think that is the italian way. I honestly don't really see much in the way of italy ever getting back on top-and i think that it will always be looked at a somewhat sinister and cynical championship. Anytime i post on an english site, i'm referred to as a cheat and diver and things like that. but really, is it hard to see why? i mean, that fight with atalanta after that guy scored a goal he "didn't need", that is pathetic and totally unsporting. look at bolton on the last day in england, they could've curled up and died but in the end fought out a result. italy has a long way to go before we will be the top destination.
I do agree with hany on his last paragraph, i think we are destined to be a second-tier with la liga and Bundes, with most of our good hope coming from cup runs. There seems to be very little care in the english speaking world for the italian championship, other than when a side goes on a cup run. it is up to MILAN to make the best we can, just like Madrid and Barca in spain, and Bayern in germany. We'll see how the future goes...
Giovanni
13-05-2008, 15:13
Interesting points, but i believe your vision is too negative.
I will reply your points in detail when i have the time to. In general, i agree on many points, but you wrote it wih much pathos, and got a bit carried away.
Italian football is not only Serie A, but also the 4th times winning World Champions.
I agree that I tend to err on the side of pessimism...
I want nothing more than to see a really even level of football across europe, but with the advent of the european union, the rules were going to change. England got on board with this and took advantage of the new holes allowing for player movement, etc. Now you can see whenever platini or blatter try to bring up the idea of player quota or homegrown talent, all you have to do is listen to the epl's reaction and you know the idea is dead in the water. Why? becuase the epl has the biggest money-contract for tv, and those teams have become the biggest. Uefa doesn't or can't afford to not have those teams be a part of their cash cow, the champions league. So england (club) is effectively running that show, in my opinion. One of my biggest joys of watching serie a is seeing 75-80% italian players; that matters to me. but most fans want to see the best of the world, and if it is on one team in a country where none of them live, so be it. the times are a-changing, and your question about marketing goes to the heart of it. if it didn't, we'd still be all watching our local teams, filled with locally-grown players, and that would be that. but now is different, we've got to market, and we've got to lure new fans. it is the only way to grow. man u, chelsea, liverpool going to china; man city going to thailand. sadly, if i go to a game here in chicago i will see more jerseys of a crappy epl team than i would a milan shirt. why? because epl is on all the time and is built up like the best thing since sliced bread, while serie a is a bunch of snoozefest cheaters. that's the reality of the marketing.
To address the national team issue; the reaction of the commentary about italy winning the last world cup is all negative based on matrix. in america (a huge new market for football) the idea that anyone actually thought italy deserved to win is looked at as a lunatic. it doesn't matter what they did before the final, but this is the tarnished view of his actions, that it just confirms italy's players and championship as cynical and sinister. it doesn't matter what the truth is, that is how it was spun and continues.
and to listen to english fans (whose national team has probably suffered because of epl) they seem to take it as an inevitable consequence that the national team is underachievers. however, whether this matters enough to make a change in player makeup on teams is to be seen. what i mean is that one tournament every four years is not going to change the way the league is run. the pride you feel as italian world champion is countered by them saying "well we have the best league, best players, most money every year".
i don't know, it is such a confusing and frustrating question overall. i hate to see anyone dominate and i hate to see countries lose their national flavor. that is one of the things i love best about europe, especially the countries i lived in, finland and austria. the pride of being a citizen of those countries seems so high they would never want to sell out their things for success. but look at the real world we have now. players can become "citizens" of countries to play for national teams. that is a disgrace and makes the idea of "national teams" a total joke. players for such a long time in italy were "discovering" italian grandparents.
who knows what the future will hold? a european superleague seems possible. to fit with what you say that i get carried away, in this way i think the best (ie most funded) teams will just eventually do what they want to get more money and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do. that's my biggest fear.
Gio, just wanted to add a caveat that this was written from an american point of view, so i know that some things will not be totally accurate as far as national team feeling, etc. Of course in retrospect I can/would amend some of the things discussed as i realize there are generalizations.
Also, I wanted to get your feelings about the CL final as compared to 03 final and subsequent effects on the respective national leagues?
itz a little sad seeing these epl fans in asia boosting alot over their success..i hope something is done in the near future to bring back the glory days of serie A..fingers crossed..
FORZA MAGICO MILAN
Why EPL teams earn so much? Why a successful club like Milan can't earn as well ? What's EPL team's secret ? They invested a lot in marketing, something italian clubs don't (or do, but not so well).
I think Milan should start to invest in marketing, in selling its image worldwide in more efficient ways. We're popular because we've been successful, but many EPL clubs who don't win a throphy since the times of Cartage are as well popular in the world. How comes ?
I think Serie A as a whole should massively improve its image, and make studies about getting a fresher and more entertaining appeal. If custumers will think Serie A is getting better and better, we'll have an improvement in tv rights.
Stadiums should be dramatically changed. Facilities are horrible.
What can we do about it? We could be a club that have a positive balance, instead of having every year a negative one. Clubs like Manchester Utd can spend because they have a positive income in itself, regardless of the major shareholders investments.
I think we should make something about it. A club like Milan should definitely be in top three list of richest clubs in the world.
You'll never see Milan in China wasting energy.
Kaka1899
24-05-2008, 04:24
I think there will become a point where the EPL will reach saturation point as in all the mega stars will be there but that will put more stars from joining as they wont be guarenteed a starting spot they will look elsewhere for top first team football, cue Milan,Madrid,Barca,Bayern
in a made up scenario say most epl teams have teams of this standard
--------------cech--------
--Rafnha---Terry----Cana--Danni Alves-
--Joe Cole----Kaka----Pirlo------C.Ronaldo
---------------Drogba----Eto'o-------------
bench, Ronaldinho,Gattuso,Buffon,Sobis,Barzagli,Oddo
why would say David Villa want to go to take a chance but probably end up on the bench? this is where if Milan can keep a big club image by winning the scudetto and CL we can attract players that wont want to be bench warming in the EPL
also players like Ronaldinho will add benefits as can you imagine the amount of parents biuying there kids a Ronaldinho shirt, we would have thousands of shirts sold a year if not millions which most of the money goes into the club, Beckham still has the effect even though he has lost a yard of pace and touch you cant deny hes a very marketable man, that is why i cant understand why we are umming and arring about 25 million euros thats what 17 million pounds im sure we would make that back on merchandise so it only leaves us his wages to pay.stop been tight and get him bought! :)
There is a clear difference between saying that Berlusconi cares about money and saying he will go to China.
For example you don't see Galliani there next to him at Via Durati explaining the profits. He will simply say: Berlu, let's not go to China. Let's hope Inter does it.
But Kaka', the only issue with your argument is that the other leagues would still be 2nd choice, after english "top 4". It makes sense, like you said, that a team would get to a saturation point and players would stop going there. But let's look at Chelsea as the example.
They have continued to buy up players for all positions; players have continued to go there, because they get paid the highest wages. Now in an ideal, sporting world, after a season or two of riding pine, those players would say to themselves, "right, I am a FOOTBALLER, not a BENCHWARMER" and they'd piss off. However, let's look at Shawn Wright-Phillips and Steve Sidwell. Both players extremely promising for England, playing consistently for their previous teams and starring. Cue a big-money move to Chelsea, SWP barely plays (he's like 5th choice winger) and Sidwell, well was he going to compete with Lampard, Ballack, Makalele, Essien, etc? Nope, haven't seem him play since January. Both players have stated how "happy" they are to stay at Chelsea. My thought is because nobody is going to pay them the ridiculous money they get there; sadly, this shows alot about the state of players. This makes me (and probably everyone) really sick. I mean, didn't Del Piero give up his salary for sometime beacuse of his injury? That I respect. England seems like it is made up of alot of mercenaries, player like Anelka a perfect example. He was worried to take that penalty, beacuse he doesn't give a rat's ass about Chelsea; he stated as much after the match.
Now, how Italy can benefit from all this? We need to have a more honest, more hardworking, better stadium, more positive attitude, fans not being banned to travel, etc..The CL final was a great advert for English football. Their markets will only get better because of it. Do I want Milan to go on tiring tours of China or Saskatchewan or Patagonia to drum up marketing? No, that is not our way. Italy is more content in its class, I think. England once ruled the world with the British Empire, now they can with the Premier League.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to money. Will David Villa move to the highest wage-payer? I don't know. Which job would you take? The one that pays more or the one that pays less. How much does pride matter to players now? You are right that they are the ones who will decide how long England stays on top-if there is an exodus in order to play football, italy will prosper. It should be an interesting couple of years.
Kaka1899
24-05-2008, 13:17
Calcio Chief: Italy Needs English Stadiums
The Italian Olympic Federation president, Luca Pancalli, has hit out at the less than perfect state of Italian stadiums and he believes Italy should follow the English example.
The chief has blasted the poor infrastructure surrounding grounds and he believes that Italy have some of the worst out-dated stadiums in Europe.
Attendances in Italy have seen a gradual decline over the last ten years and Pancalli insists that the attitude towards the grounds needs to change.
"In Italy there is a belief that stadiums should only be fit for big events and this has meant that we are behind by at least 20 years compared to other European countries," said Pancalli.
"The stadiums are ancient and not fit for their purpose and Italy cannot really expect to be awarded a tournament such as the European Championships.
"We need to make stadiums more attractive to fans by making major changes to them, they need to be more functional like stadiums in England.
"There needs to be a change and clubs need to invest in stadiums if we are to compete with the rest of Europe."
Stadiums in Italy have poor health and safety records and they are often neglected by the councils which own them. Most stadiums have not been touched since World Cup 90 almost twenty years ago.
Stadiums like the Olimpico have become infamous for their poor views from the stands.
Last week, Inter fans, who were banned from travelling to Parma, somehow managed to break into the Stadio Tardini and they destroyed the pitch and goalposts as stewards were seen fleeing the stadium.
Salvatore Landolina
Maybe that should relieve abit of tension :)
Stadiums need to be improved, and they need to be owned by the teams. This is the only way to ensure that continual upgrades will happen, as the owners will want a nice stream of revenue.
Also, ticket prices in Italy are much less than England, and that dries up a large amount of revenue. I'm not advocating ticket hikes, but I think if the stadia were more appealing, then the price can increase. 1 Euro increase on 50.000 tickets a match is still an extra 50.000/matchday.
(an American who now has 3 totally dedicated channels to football),
*is jealous*
i only have access to one dedicated channel...fox soccer channel
what are the other two you receive? :)
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