View Full Version : Sheva vs KaKA, who was more important!!
kastriot
07-10-2009, 04:49
Today I was going through MM and I found an old thread called "Best buy of the decade" and Sheva moslty being number 1. but this is prior to 2007.
And I was wondering what about now is still Sheva considered as our most important player or else?
Ps. Dont talk about their personalities, lets debate about their achievements as sportsmen,maybe this will help remember the good old times and forget about the mess we are in right now.
We have always had a tradition of excellent strikers but a player like Kaka comes along once in a blue moon. So for me it would have to be Kaka.
ACMILAN1983
07-10-2009, 05:59
Both are equal in status at Milan for me. Both played in Milan when it was the best club in the world and both perservered with Milan in hard times and dragged the team forward. Both won a similar number of trophies (both personal and at club level). Also both were leaders in the squad during their time at Milan and spent a similar amount of time at Milan.
In reality, it's pretty much impossible to decide between the two, as their achievements in Milan are so similar, albeit they played in different positions.
Kaka1899
07-10-2009, 06:08
you could say Kaka because we have won the CL since without Sheva but on current form after Kaka it looks like we will be winning nothing which could show Kaka was really the centre point the lynchpin holding the team together, although it is a weak argument its an argument none the less :D
kastriot
07-10-2009, 08:20
you could say Kaka because we have won the CL since without Sheva but on current form after Kaka it looks like we will be winning nothing which could show Kaka was really the centre point the lynchpin holding the team together, although it is a weak argument its an argument none the less :D
Never thought in that way..its actually fair argument between the two!!!
Kaka' as far as Im concerned has ment more to Milan fans then Sheva. Aldough Sheva was also a simbol. Unfortunately morons sold them both.
Gabriel489
07-10-2009, 10:16
No doubt Kaka was more important than Sheva.
I think you are leaning towards Kaka, because of the way Sheva left.
If we take into account only the achievements on the pitch, they are equal.
hitmannq8
07-10-2009, 11:43
Sheva was more of a symbol to Milan and was more consistent than Kaka. He always rose to the occasion whether it was a big game or a small game.
Kaka was a better player and he single handedly got us the CL trophy in 2007. He was a great human being in general, he was a very lovable person for fans of all the teams. It was impossible to hate him.
Lebanese
07-10-2009, 15:26
I think you are leaning towards Kaka, because of the way Sheva left.
If we take into account only the achievements on the pitch, they are equal.
Sheva was no doubt an important player. He was one of the best complete striker this business can offer but to be honest kaka did for Milan what no other player can do.
Before getting into conclusions who served Milan best and who is better, just compare the squads each player had. Kaka was voted in the top 100 influental characters, even berlusconi wasnot there and he was the only football figure in that list
Sheva was more consistent and produced the goods for Milan in both Serie A AND the CL for many seasons. Kaka was important, there's no doubt about that but Sheva slightly > Kaka when it comes to purely the footballing aspect of his contribution to Milan.
Gabriel489
07-10-2009, 22:41
The thing, I think MIlan could have won the CL in 2003 without Sheva, as Pippo was on fire and JDT was doing a solid job coming off the bench.
Where as, Milan would have never won the CL in 2007 without Kaka.
ON top of that, Kaka did won all the individual awards where Sheva only won the GoldenBall.
I love both Sheva and Kaka as players but Kaka was much more important to Milan than Sheva.
Jay Crisp
08-10-2009, 03:20
Sheva or Kaka damn hard choice. Sheva was a goal machine and did not need service constantly he could create from nothing , but so sould Kaka they were pivotal and just great great players for Milan. Both helped the team win CL trophys and both won so much with Milan.
So the only way I could possibly seperate the two is like this. Sheva asked for a transfer asked to leave and handed in a transfer request , Kaka on the other hand although he left it was Milans or rather MGT'S choice . If Madrid had offered £68 million and Milan turned it down I believe strongly that Kaka would still be a Milan player.
So if that actually is a valid reason I would choose Ricky over Sheva.
kastriot
08-10-2009, 03:37
One argument that favors Sheva is Consistency, he was very consistent bar the seasons where he was mostly injured like the 2003 wining campaign, yet again he came back and left a great mark. Kaka on the other hand was great 2007 and 2005, other years he was really good but nothing spectacular.IMO
Who was more important? Kaka for sure. Because when Sheva left, we still had a decent team with Kaka approaching his prime, Rino, Ambro, Pirlo, etc still in good form. His departure did not affect us to that extent.
Kaka on the other hand, was the only bright spot in an otherwise depleted squad. Now that he has left, we are left with nothing. Offensively we have lost everything as he was the only player we had who could link up defense to attack and lead our counter attacks. Shame on Berlusconi for selling such an important player and not bother replacing him.
The thing, I think MIlan could have won the CL in 2003 without Sheva, as Pippo was on fire and JDT was doing a solid job coming off the bench.
Where as, Milan would have never won the CL in 2007 without Kaka.
ON top of that, Kaka did won all the individual awards where Sheva only won the GoldenBall.
I love both Sheva and Kaka as players but Kaka was much more important to Milan than Sheva.
That has absolutely nothing to do with whether Sheva was better than Kaka or not. Because Sheva was part of a better squad that might/might not have won the CL without him doesn't make him less of a player. Remove Messi from barcelona last season and they may still have won the CL...doesn't make him any less of a player though.
Regardless, Nesta > (Sheva + Kaka)^2
Warro Bantan
09-10-2009, 22:13
They were both fav players of mine, so I will go with the Kaka = $heva, and thats that.
Interesting thread though.
both were incredibly decisive, but both broke my heart.
Gabriel489
11-10-2009, 02:35
That has absolutely nothing to do with whether Sheva was better than Kaka or not. Because Sheva was part of a better squad that might/might not have won the CL without him doesn't make him less of a player. Remove Messi from barcelona last season and they may still have won the CL...doesn't make him any less of a player though.
Regardless, Nesta > (Sheva + Kaka)^2
My point is, Kaka truly led the time when there was really nobody else. While Sheva did not do that.
The question on MM should be:
Who was the biggest liar of the two?
I agree with Mystic here, King Nesta >>>>> $hevchenko + liar kaka
Ha ha, for once I agree with you zeekay...who was the biggest liar? The English speaker wannabe or the "They pushed me out" guy? :)
HO-YOUNG
14-10-2009, 02:49
Kaka or Sheva is trick question... first there was Sheva, then there was Sheva and Kaka, then there was kaka... Sheva wonthe Champions League with a good squad... they both had a chance to win it together but we all know how that went... then Kaka won it all on his own... it is his name that should be on the trophy in 07... who could forget that Celtic game...
Christian
14-10-2009, 07:25
Well I still love both players, and I really hope (And I think), that Kaká will get a good reception when we play him in Real Madrid.
I don't really like the 'Kaká won the 2007 CL'-thing. Yes he was our most important player, but I think saying stuff like that takes away the achievement from the rest of the players. Rewatch the trashing of Man Utd and you'll see that it wasn't Kaká alone, it was a team effort. Yes in some games he was the difference, but it doesn't take away the achievements of the other players like Seedorf (Best midfielder of the CL2007 btw), Maldini (CL Best defender 2007), Pirlo, Gattuso. The fact that we did so poorly in the league the same year, when players like Seedorf and the other veterans were beeing rested and in particular Nesta was injured, shows how important these players were.
Anyways, I'll join the Nesta > Kaká + Sheva, movement ;) Best defender EVER imo.
Anyways, I'll join the Nesta > Kaká + Sheva, movement ;) Best defender EVER imo.
Really stupid comparison. How can you compare attackers to a defender?
And how is Nesta better? Because he didn't leave us for a different club? Give me a break...
Gabriel489
15-10-2009, 05:30
It is funny how you guys are saying Nesta> Kaka + Sheva now. And if NEsta leaves this coming summer to his old club-Lazio( a club that trainned him...). Would any of you still thinks he is better than both Kaka+ Sheva.
If Milan is winning and doing well( no scandal in 2006), I think both of these players would have stayed with Milan. Probably Pato won't be sign though if thats the case.
Anyway, point is, if there is anyone to blame, blame the club(Berlu+Galli), for either not spending money or spending money unwisely.
Pls stop disrespecting Sheva and Kaka.
They both might have left for money or whatever reasons you could think of, the fact is they do have a few years left in their contract and if MIlan wants to play hard ball with them, they must stay. Milan failed to do that on both occasions.
It is funny how you guys are saying Nesta> Kaka + Sheva now. And if NEsta leaves this coming summer to his old club-Lazio( a club that trainned him...). Would any of you still thinks he is better than both Kaka+ Sheva.
I don't have any problem if Nesta wanna finish his career at his boyhood club. He will always be the 2nd best defender for me after Maldini. He never talked rubbish like the other 2 liars that I wanna be the next legend, captain, Maldini blahblahblah........ all bull**** stuff.
I wish his best of luck in any case. A real gentleman, or should I say a man with no lies :cool:
If Milan is winning and doing well( no scandal in 2006), I think both of these players would have stayed with Milan. Probably Pato won't be sign though if thats the case.
Its better that we know who the real legends and icons of ACM should be, rather than hypocrites. I am not so optimistic about Pato either. It would be much better if we get G.Rossi soon and sell Pato :firedev:
Christian
20-10-2009, 12:51
Really stupid comparison. How can you compare attackers to a defender?
And how is Nesta better? Because he didn't leave us for a different club? Give me a break...
True, you can't really compare an attacker to a defender, but you can't really compare Kaká and Shevchenko then, one's a playmaker the other is a goalscorer.
The way I see it, Kaká is one of the best playmakers of this decade, Sheva is one of the best strikers of this decade, while in my book Nesta is definetly the best defender of this decade and also among the best defenders ever. He's won Serie A defender of the year 5 times, basicly every year he hasn't been out injured, and so far it looks like he can win it again this year.
Kwasniefski
20-10-2009, 19:02
Ridiculous question/thread! What a bunch of "kaka ie: poop"...pardon the pun...Nobody wins anything or the CL by themselves in 2007 or any other year! It's a feckin' TEAM game. Both Sheva and Kaka would be the first to tell you that and that they could NEVER have done what they did on their own. And comparing two great players...one a striker and the other a playmaker...pointless, useless. And like someone said on this thread...opinions on both players and particularly on Sheva are coloured by how or because he left...not fair...and there are a lot of you on this forum who thought he was a god before he decided to leave.
Fickle? Fair? Feck!
Kwasniefski
20-10-2009, 19:09
By the way...I watched Sheva play against Inter today. He was terrific...great pace and positional play...almost and actually should have scored at least twice. He was a big reason Inter could only draw at home. Dynamo WERE the better team.
What? Nobody is comparing positions. Both of these players were extremely influential for Milan. And yes, influential players, by definition, can propel a team to victory, despite it being a team game.
Both Kaka and Sheva were influential. But who more? My vote goes to Kaka, because he literally carried the team on his back in 2007.
As for the Nesta > Kaka plus Sheva, I think it was a joke, why take things so seriously?
By the way...I watched Sheva play against Inter today. He was terrific...great pace and positional play...almost and actually should have scored at least twice. He was a big reason Inter could only draw at home. Dynamo WERE the better team.
I watched the game too. It was my bright spot of a season seeing an underdog Dinamo totally outplaying Inter. And yes, Dinamo really played better and had more chances.:rone:
Had Sheva scored his one on one, and won the game for the team, and that's against Inter - I would personally bow down to worship him! :p283:
Probably yet another proof that we didn't give him enough chances at Milan. This Sheva I saw yesterday could be really helpful for us. :rone:
Kwasniefski
21-10-2009, 09:31
I watched the game too. It was my bright spot of a season seeing an underdog Dinamo totally outplaying Inter. And yes, Dinamo really played better and had more chances.:rone:
Had Sheva scored his one on one, and won the game for the team, and that's against Inter - I would personally bow down to worship him! :p283:
Probably yet another proof that we didn't give him enough chances at Milan. This Sheva I saw yesterday could be really helpful for us. :rone:
His header missed by inches and he SHOULD have scored on his one-on-one...clear chance to have won it for Dynamo.
But it was his movement, passing, pace and strength that impressed me.
You're right..I started thinking the same thing...maybe we could still have used him.
Recently he has played well in the Ukrainian League. Won the last two games for Dynamo. Scored the only goal and winner against Arsenal with a beautiful free-kick from 25 yards out. Then scored the winner against Obolon with a one-touch shot from in close on a tough angle.
But he was just out of form to return with a good way to Milan, he failed miserably in his second tenure in Milano.
As for the match, he created lots of problems, I dont know what to do with our defense, Lucio was horrible, very unlike Lucio
Lebanese
23-10-2009, 16:58
But he was just out of form to return with a good way to Milan, he failed miserably in his second tenure in Milano.
As for the match, he created lots of problems, I dont know what to do with our defense, Lucio was horrible, very unlike Lucio
Karim if you watched bayern 0 - Milan 2 you will totally understand that lucio is no better than materassi. Now he is 3 years older. So it's normal to be disappointed with his performance
inter are an amazing team just domestically. If inter were in fiorentina's shoe they will really suffer for a draw not qualification
Lebanese
23-10-2009, 17:02
Sheva is a star player, he needs to feel wanted and offcourse treat him like one
both spells were a failure because he didn't establish him self, and both mourinho and ancelotti treated him like sh*t
I think he just couldn't settle in again after the history. it's hard to go back to a club, cap in hand, when you left in the way he did, confident of success like he was the best player in the world. he failed at chelsea because it was too hard for him to prove that he was the best player in the world all over again in such a short space of time, and at us (2nd time obviously) because he could never shake the feeling of being failure having to return.
at dinamo he probably feels more accepting that his peak days are over, and there is no pressure to recapture old form.
All I can said is that I am not mad with Shevchenko any more.
Lebanese
25-10-2009, 01:58
All I can said is that I am not mad with Shevchenko any more.
yeah me too, sheva is a saint compared to others. but does this mean we are gonna have kaka back like in two years ?:dcool:
yeah me too, sheva is a saint compared to others. but does this mean we are gonna have kaka back like in two years ?:dcool:
two years? doubt it. since Kaka's contract is 6 years, so maybe at the end of 4th or 5th year. :guw: not sure that I would still want him by then. :wallbang::1ang:
The quastion maybe should be- who left a greater legacy? Shevchenko will be much more remembered though because he scored a lot of goals...
I must admit though that CL 07 trophy maybe was the most "individual" ever, except quarter finals against Bayern in all other matches it was only Kaka...
On other hand since Sheva left it's simply not the same milan... it's hard to say.
Shevchenko just scored another one against Inter, sweet revenge, that will teach Mourinho a thing or two. I saw some replays of his recent games, he's looking sharp and powerfull.
Sheva should now be called an 'old nemesis' by Inter fans :D
the kind of goal only Shevchenko can score, it looks like a fluke goal though, not sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1e_Q1cLBbw
This thread sould be closed immediately. They both are gone, end of story :rr30: Its better to discuss about Inzaghi and Seedorf than those two liars.
Liars?
These guys were your most important assets the past 10 years and you call them liars because they opted for a new challenge?
Would you like to stick around your workplace for the end of time, very hard to do so. The guys wanted a new challenge and they had the opportunity and took it. They also left with your consent and they said they wanted and they got their wish.
Liars?
These guys were your most important assets the past 10 years and you call them liars because they opted for a new challenge?
Would you like to stick around your workplace for the end of time, very hard to do so. The guys wanted a new challenge and they had the opportunity and took it. They also left with your consent and they said they wanted and they got their wish.
It would be interesting to see if Javier Zanetti moves to Man Utd or Chelsea for a new challenge, neglecting the love of thousands of Inter fans worldwide (only if Inter has got thousands of fans worldwide). Then we will see how Inter faithfuls would bash their beloved Capitano :5inter:
The bottom lines is that those two were liars of the highest qulity, specially this 'Evil Saint', who all the time pretended to be a very different type of person. These best example is Nesta. No lies, just doing his best for ACM and fans. No bull**** like he wanna be the next club legend, face of AC Milan, Next Maldini, end his career with ACM etc etc. If Nesta decides to leave, I will have no problem with that, because he never lied.
It would be interesting to see if Javier Zanetti moves to Man Utd or Chelsea for a new challenge, neglecting the love of thousands of Inter fans worldwide (only if Inter has got thousands of fans worldwide). Then we will see how Inter faithfuls would bash their beloved Capitano :5inter:
The bottom lines is that those two were liars of the highest qulity, specially this 'Evil Saint', who all the time pretended to be a very different type of person. These best example is Nesta. No lies, just doing his best for ACM and fans. No bull**** like he wanna be the next club legend, face of AC Milan, Next Maldini, end his career with ACM etc etc. If Nesta decides to leave, I will have no problem with that, because he never lied.
You have a point there, but you must remember that it is hard for one of the world's best attacking midfielders to "keep it quiet and not set his ambitions...."
You have a point there, but you must remember that it is hard for one of the world's best attacking midfielders to "keep it quiet and not set his ambitions...."
Correct. It's easy talking from behind your computer without understanding what being a football star means. Some things happened. Some circumstances weren't exactly as we would liked.
Time to move on.
love Ricky 22
25-11-2009, 15:10
ofcours kaka was more important than sheva
kaka is agreat player who is difficult to see player like him
zakakhan
26-11-2009, 02:29
no comparison b/w kaka and shewa, kaka is one the few greats of the game
pece4ever
26-11-2009, 09:13
Sheva without thinking, after all great names in our history, theres no such a attacker like Sheva, Van Basten maybe, but he finish his carier to early, so Sheva is the best. Sheva brings us more enjoy than Kaka.
Sheva e grande,sheva e vincetore.....kaka e madridista
Neither. Milan is a team; you don't lose a forest just because a big tree is gone.
Gabriel489
02-12-2009, 06:08
It would be interesting to see if Javier Zanetti moves to Man Utd or Chelsea for a new challenge, neglecting the love of thousands of Inter fans worldwide (only if Inter has got thousands of fans worldwide). Then we will see how Inter faithfuls would bash their beloved Capitano :5inter:
The bottom lines is that those two were liars of the highest qulity, specially this 'Evil Saint', who all the time pretended to be a very different type of person. These best example is Nesta. No lies, just doing his best for ACM and fans. No bull**** like he wanna be the next club legend, face of AC Milan, Next Maldini, end his career with ACM etc etc. If Nesta decides to leave, I will have no problem with that, because he never lied.
Personally, I would never called players liars.... simply b/c the media always twisted and turned with their statement. Now I am not saying Kaka never wanted to leave.....but the thing is that whenever someone asked him if he wanted to be the next great one at Milan during his Milan days, what do you expect him to say,
1. Lets see about that.
2. Not really, as I would like new challenges in the future.
3. Ofcourse and it will be my honor among them.
If Kaka or any players from any clubs used 1 and 2 as answers, they will be sold or bench right away if not a fine from clubs and will never hear the end from the fans till he is gone from the club. To me, I think Kaka did what any professional would have done in answering those questions.
Now, I really don't want to get into Kaka betrayed Milan..... As to me, I think Kaka would have stayed if Berlu and Galli did not accept the offer from Real.
Gourcuff would have come back if Galli actually showed more love toward the player.
Milan would have been in much better shape if Galli actually done some real work over the past 5 years.....
I think this topic should be changed to who was the better sale for Milan. I voted for kaka, we have gotten a huge amount of cash for a player who has become more and more inconsistent and more injury prone. He hasn't exactly perform at the highest level consistently since he left and he just got injuried again.
Sheva is the sale that doesn't make sense to me, but sheva was the one who choose to leave not that we want to sell him. At that time, sheva is still the best striker on the world and we let him leave for 30M while never getting somebody good enough in return.
Kaka's departure did not impact us as much as we think, the team is still playing well and in fact has played more like a team since kaka left. I think ronaldinho has done a much better job this season than kaka did last season.
Players come and go, Milan is forever.
ACMILAN1983
08-12-2009, 03:48
I think this topic should be changed to who was the better sale for Milan. I voted for kaka, we have gotten a huge amount of cash for a player who has become more and more inconsistent and more injury prone. He hasn't exactly perform at the highest level consistently since he left and he just got injuried again.
Sheva is the sale that doesn't make sense to me, but sheva was the one who choose to leave not that we want to sell him. At that time, sheva is still the best striker on the world and we let him leave for 30M while never getting somebody good enough in return.
Kaka's departure did not impact us as much as we think, the team is still playing well and in fact has played more like a team since kaka left. I think ronaldinho has done a much better job this season than kaka did last season.
Players come and go, Milan is forever.
I think Ronaldinho is doing better this season mostly because Leo has used him to his current strengths. I'd be interested in seeing what Leo could do with Kaka if he was still here.
Gabriel489
09-12-2009, 02:16
WEll Dev, I think if KAka is still around, Dinho would either be on the Bench, or Pato is on the Bench. As Leo will probably have Kaka-Borri-Dinho as the attk 3 or Pato-Borri-Kaka.
ACMILAN1983
09-12-2009, 02:53
You might have had Kaka-Dinho-Pato with Pato as the leading forward.
Gabriel489
09-12-2009, 04:02
It won't be as good as having someone like Borreillo, as Pato can't hold up the ball like Borri.
It would have to be Kaka', though both are Milan legends Sheva, a master, just look at the number of goals he bagged for us. But Kaka' is unique, he is an artist, a player that you only get every 20 years or so. Also, we can singularly contribute our 2007 Champions League title to him; he is a big occasion player and he showed us then.
Kaka', Milan's best player of the decade.
the one was a traidor(if you can call like that anyone anymore),the other one was not,actually we i d say the opposite..
sheva was my "football god" during my adolesence,back then i would nt compare him with anyone(even with ricky when he came)even if i knew he wasnt the best,in his start he was part of a squad that wasnt as good as he was,for me he symboled a lot for milan..i never thought he would leave,it was out of my mind,and he left us when the road got tough..
they say that "when the road gets tough,the tough get through",the irony is that i first read it in an article about him..
on the other hand since sheva left i knew that one day it would be kaka's turn maybe,but not in that way,WE SOLD HIM,WE SOLD HIM OUT..i am still proud about kaka,and i still wish and hope the best for him,i would feel akward if his carreer ends up like $heva..for milan fans(like me at least) sheva got "poetic justice",and a part of me doesnt like it, and another one doesnt care..
more important of 2?i cant say and be sure..
or maybe i can:MALDINI
Sheva is probably one of the best players to ever for Milan and he's our second best all time goal scorer. He's scored more than anyone I've seen in the derby. And he won us the Champions League in 2003 and he was the league's top scorer in 2004 when we last won the league. It's true that when he left we still won the Champions League, but I think until this day we haven't solved our problems upfront. On the other hand, Kaka was also very important. He dictated the midfield with his silky dribbling and passing and has always been a dominant force. His performance in 2007 was amazing but I think Shevchenko made the team work together much better. His partners upfront always enjoyed themselves. He brought the best out of Gila and Crespo.
rossonerka
06-01-2010, 17:47
For me Kaka`.
He was simpli the best when he play in Milan. All fans love him boys, girls, gradnfathers, childrens... he was soo nice, good character, he was different from other football player. He was my favourite player. And he disapoint me a lot. But thats football, money change everything:)
I like Sheva, he was soo important in Milan, but i never like him soo much. And when he come back to Milano i was against that.
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