View Full Version : Sack Allegri.......
Elmago99
23-09-2010, 00:17
It's never too early to panic.....
*Starting Seedorf-Gattuso-Ambro-Pirlo in every game...
*Using Boateng as a forward..
*Playing Ronaldinho EVERY GAME...
* Using a 4-3-3 Static System that is NOT working
* Putting Robinho in the game vs Lazio at the 89th minute
* Attempting to sub Inzaghi for Ibra when the problem is CLEARLY YOUR OLD MIDFIELD...then putting Inzaghi back on bench when Ibra scores
* No ability to use a sub or to change a system
GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION OF CONTRACT
I am really dissapointed with him
Gio-mania
23-09-2010, 01:27
Yeah, he has disappointed me. I know our team isn't top notch, but really I expected an improvement over Leo since Allegri is a real coach. I like to believe that once Flamini is back we will have a midfield that actually runs, and that will solve most of our problems. His poor use of subs really disturbs me though..
ACMILAN1983
23-09-2010, 02:29
I think we need to give him time, he's in a very tough situation trying to balance this side correctly with some important new players. Personally, my only real disappointment in him yesterday was that he brought on Robinho so late. I would have taken off Dinho earlier for Robinho.
Elmago99
23-09-2010, 07:05
Give him time with his 4-3-3 playing Boateng as a Winger and Ronaldinho standing around smiling, and Ibra as lone striker, and those 3 old slow pokes in midfield and this season will be FINISHED for us by October.
Boateng as a winger is not a bad idea. This man has enough stamina to defend & attack, while there is no good replacement for either Rino, Clarence or Andrea. I don't think Merkel or Strasser are ready now.
Mid is our main problem, but lets look at the defense, our main pillar, Nesta is not himself last year. He is a legend defender like Maldini & Baresi, but at his age, chasing opponent, slow reaction are his weakness. Silva is not a WC yet. Sokratis & Yepes are real subs, no more.
I don't like it, but Allegri needs more time than Leo, IMO.
Elmago99
23-09-2010, 08:57
what time???.. 5 games and he's still using a FLAWED system.. 4-3-3 is not good for IBRA.. ROnaldinho stands around and Seedorf is SLOWDORF..
AS is PIRLO...
What time do you need Allegri??? how much time to realize your choices are HORRIBLE
I've been disappointed too with the way things have been going on. We simply haven't played good football this season yet (apart from Lecce). We seem to be dragging on the field and find it difficult to keep hold of the ball even against sides like Catania. And when we do have the ball, it looks like it's soooo difficult for us to create chances....which really shouldn't be the case with the players we have on the field. But then again, creativity is useless without movement.
The biggest disappointment has been Allegri's failure to change in games where we find difficulty (which at the moment seems to be every game). Against Catania he waited to make his first move until the 85th when he put on Odu. And then put in Gattuso at the 89th minute. Gattuso??? Come one. Then yesterday he waited too long again. Robinho should have came on for Seedorf at the 70th minute together with Flamini. Dorf clearly didn't have the legs anymore and was struggling. We should have converted the formation by pulling Boateng back into the midfield and have Robinho play behind Roni and Ibra. But nothing happened. That whole time while we were obviously losing control of the game after the 65th minute.....nothing happened. Flamini came on, but that didn't make a difference since it was just a straight swap with Gattuso. We were losing control of the game (control we actually never really had but I mean control by leading 1-0) and things had to be a little changed tactically.
Having said all that, I believe that he needs more time. But time or no time...things aren't going to improve without changes. Because something obviously isn't right within our squad, our set up, and our game play. Leo last year started with a 4-3-1-2 and it was a disaster after a few games. So he changed to the 4-3-3 and it worked. I think Allegri needs to do the same thing and change this set up. Perhaps not so much the numbers (4-3-3/4-3-1-2/4-2-3-1..etc), but the mentality and game play with which we play the games. We NEED to start playing a higher defensive line and the midfield has to start applying pressure higher up the field. This 4-3-3 (with these players in it) is not made to absorb pressure. We can't drop deep in our half after we lose the ball. That was a problem last year and is a problem this year until now.
Let's see what happens. I'm NOT for sacking Allegri as I think that this might bring even bigger problems. He's had trouble with injuries and hasn't had a lot of time to work on problems since the season started because of international breaks and games so close together. But things need to improve and it needs to happen fast. It's still early, but I don't want us to be 10 points behind inter in November. We are already at half that margin and are playing like sh!t.
It's never too early to panic.....
*Starting Seedorf-Gattuso-Ambro-Pirlo in every game...
*Using Boateng as a forward..
*Playing Ronaldinho EVERY GAME...
* Using a 4-3-3 Static System that is NOT working
* Putting Robinho in the game vs Lazio at the 89th minute
* Attempting to sub Inzaghi for Ibra when the problem is CLEARLY YOUR OLD MIDFIELD...then putting Inzaghi back on bench when Ibra scores
* No ability to use a sub or to change a system
GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION OF CONTRACT
Oh for gods sake... Grow up, will you? We're a few games into the season. Ever heard of a learning curve? People make mistakes. If he keeps on making them and not learning, then I'll be the first to complain. But give him time to find the right formula before you ***** and whine that we're not conquering every adversary all the time. It's a new team and a new coach. Let's give them room to grow without unnecessary pressure.
ACMILAN1983
23-09-2010, 12:57
I believe Allegri will take a while to get the team set up because from what I see he's not just trying to change the team to get immediate results (as Leo did last year), but rather changing the ethics of the team to meet his system.
After Cesena he clearly said he wanted the team to work for each other, and despite our recent failings this is improving (very slowly), as was evident in the second half of yesterday's match. The fact is it's extremely difficult to do what he's trying and it's something that can only be done through frequent training on systems. He's not had a lot of time to do this due to our hectic schedule, so we need patience as this takes a lot of time. The same thing happened with Sacchi who had a terrible start at Milan.
Ibra is a good example as yesterday he did well as he moved and worked for the team, something that he isn't known for, nor is it something we've seen from him since joining. Our problems are players like Dinho who are individualists and just don't seem to be prepared to adapt. Seedorf too I feel is a player who needs to do more for the team, as he's often just staying deep alongside Pirlo and offering no support for the forward line. With these problems, it's difficult to play a good pressing system, which is vital in the modern game.
It's not about changing the formation to get results, as we will still suffer right now. It's a need to change how players work and move for the system, rather than relying on individual qualities.
If there is one criticism with Allegri then it's what nefremo said about his subs. He makes subs very late and personally I think he could improve in this area. However, I do think his ideas for the team are correct and therefore we musn't be hasty in making decisions right now.
It's never too early to panic.....
*Starting Seedorf-Gattuso-Ambro-Pirlo in every game...
*Using Boateng as a forward..
*Playing Ronaldinho EVERY GAME...
* Using a 4-3-3 Static System that is NOT working
* Putting Robinho in the game vs Lazio at the 89th minute
* Attempting to sub Inzaghi for Ibra when the problem is CLEARLY YOUR OLD MIDFIELD...then putting Inzaghi back on bench when Ibra scores
* No ability to use a sub or to change a system
GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION OF CONTRACT
I strongly disagree with your idea, but i appreciate your enthusiasm & energy levels :5ok:
what is this thread man??honestly..its been 4 rounds dude!what should Del Neri or Ranieri do??even Benitez at the start..come on..
things will get better as soon as flamini is back..
boateng instead of seedorf, pato in and binho fitter..this team is worthy a chance guys(and everyone can remember that i ve been rarely optimistic in here)..
a new coach would complicate things right now..lets give him some time,at least a minimum people..
WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46: WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46: WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46: WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46:
WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46: WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46: WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46: WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, :v46:
Ive been reading with much disappointment about people wanting to sack Allegri. It has been four games poeple!
We also need to take into account two things - Robinho (who isnt fit) and Ibra signed on or close to the last days in the market, they will need time to settle and see how Milan play.
Secondly, everyone keps talking about drop Ronaldinho and play 4-3-1-2, which im all for, but you know who isnt, Berlusconi would be one....Ronaldinho plays whether we like it or not. I dont think we should be blaming Allegri...Milan can come out and say Allegri has the final say etc etc but we all know that Ronaldinho will play if he is fit (in berlusconi's eyes).
I have great faith in Allegri, he has been hampered by Flamini being injured as well as Robinho not being fully fit when he joined. A midfield Of Boateng (who has been great so far), Flamini and Pirlo and i think our team could change dramtically. A good right back wouldnt go astray either.
Keep the faith people!
We'll all be celabrating in May! :rone:
Lebanese
24-09-2010, 02:12
Let the guy build his team and work, I totally disagree with axing a coach in the first year, and a good hint for every one: we can only improve
Kwasniefski
24-09-2010, 07:16
Hey, Allegri needs time, yes....but about those useless late, late, 88th-minute substitutions....maybe an Ibra-Strasser-like drop-kick to the head would make him see the light??? :1d31:
Elmago99
24-09-2010, 10:43
Ive been reading with much disappointment about people wanting to sack Allegri. It has been four games poeple!
We also need to take into account two things - Robinho (who isnt fit) and Ibra signed on or close to the last days in the market, they will need time to settle and see how Milan play.
Secondly, everyone keps talking about drop Ronaldinho and play 4-3-1-2, which im all for, but you know who isnt, Berlusconi would be one....Ronaldinho plays whether we like it or not. I dont think we should be blaming Allegri...Milan can come out and say Allegri has the final say etc etc but we all know that Ronaldinho will play if he is fit (in berlusconi's eyes).
I have great faith in Allegri, he has been hampered by Flamini being injured as well as Robinho not being fully fit when he joined. A midfield Of Boateng (who has been great so far), Flamini and Pirlo and i think our team could change dramtically. A good right back wouldnt go astray either.
Keep the faith people!
We'll all be celabrating in May! :rone:
I don't want him fired NOW, but what my original Post is implying is that if he keeps this up of making subs in 88th minute and playing a 4-3-3 with gattuso pirlo seedorf in midfield, then he should be gone in January. He won't be fired though, if he's truly taking orders from Berlusconi.
The fact that Berlusconi is coaching the team is distgusting. He's costing them wins. Does he not see that?
As for Allegri, IF he's simply taking orders, and losing matches, his REPUTATION is on the line and I WOULD NEVER DO THAT... I actually have some pride and dignity.
ACMILAN1983
24-09-2010, 12:39
I don't want him fired NOW, but what my original Post is implying is that if he keeps this up of making subs in 88th minute and playing a 4-3-3 with gattuso pirlo seedorf in midfield, then he should be gone in January. He won't be fired though, if he's truly taking orders from Berlusconi.
The fact that Berlusconi is coaching the team is distgusting. He's costing them wins. Does he not see that?
As for Allegri, IF he's simply taking orders, and losing matches, his REPUTATION is on the line and I WOULD NEVER DO THAT... I actually have some pride and dignity.
I don't think Berlu's been particularly involved at all. If it was his choice, Dinho would be much closer to goal, while Allegri is essentially using him in the same way as Leo (something Berlu had major problems with).
Of course not happy with results and subs and everything but way too early for this.
I was at my favorite restaurant the other day. I ordered the meal and after two minutes I got so angry and fed up at the chef for taking so long that I got into the kitchen and killed everyone in there.
Overreaction?
Kwasniefski
24-09-2010, 15:26
I don't want him fired NOW, but what my original Post is implying is that if he keeps this up of making subs in 88th minute and playing a 4-3-3 with gattuso pirlo seedorf in midfield, then he should be gone in January. He won't be fired though, if he's truly taking orders from Berlusconi.
The fact that Berlusconi is coaching the team is distgusting. He's costing them wins. Does he not see that?
As for Allegri, IF he's simply taking orders, and losing matches, his REPUTATION is on the line and I WOULD NEVER DO THAT... I actually have some pride and dignity.
First you say that Berlusconi IS in fact doing the coaching...then you say IF Allegri is simply taking orders. Which is it? Can't have your cake and eat it too.
I was at my favorite restaurant the other day. I ordered the meal and after two minutes I got so angry and fed up at the chef for taking so long that I got into the kitchen and killed everyone in there.
Overreaction?
Definitely not!
-If this was your favorite restaurant that means you go there a lot.
-If you go there a lot, that means that they know who you are.
-And because they know who you are they should know what you like on their menu.
-Since they know what you like on the menu, they should have started it as soon as they saw you getting out of the car. That way it's ready approximately 2 minutes after you sit down.
:guw::ilol::grinser:
I agree that this thread is a little premature. Or like Raiola likes to say.....we are only in the second month. We got 7 more to go. :D
I also agree with Kwasniefski's idea on the drop kicks.
Kwasniefski
24-09-2010, 15:42
Nefremo, I like your crazy sense of humour...maybe we're cut from the same crazy cloth!
Elmago99
24-09-2010, 17:56
I apologize, I meant to say that IF Berlusconi is coaching the team from the office, he may as well be the coach.
If Allegri is listening to Berlu's decisions on formations and lineups... Then that's pathetic. When you put your name on something, you should want full control. This is why Mourinho and Berlusconi would NEVER EVER work.
I like coaches that demand more respect, and take more control. Then he can be judged properly. It's a difficult situation, because we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. However, I don't like what I'm seeing.
Kwasniefski
24-09-2010, 18:29
I apologize, I meant to say that IF Berlusconi is coaching the team from the office, he may as well be the coach.
If Allegri is listening to Berlu's decisions on formations and lineups... Then that's pathetic. When you put your name on something, you should want full control. This is why Mourinho and Berlusconi would NEVER EVER work.
I like coaches that demand more respect, and take more control. Then he can be judged properly. It's a difficult situation, because we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. However, I don't like what I'm seeing.
Got you...know what you mean! Any self-respecting coach with any integrity whatsoever would have taken this job knowing what Berlusconi is like and said to the mo'fo', " Up front, I take the job but I run the show. No one tells me who to play and when to play them....understood? Dinho included...no one is untouchable. I'm gone the minute that starts to happen." And you stick with that.
When Abramovich pushed to buy Sheva without Mourinho's say-so and then started pushing for Jose to play Sheva, Mourinho left even though he loved what he had achieved and had a great relationship with both fans and most of the players. You could argue there were other reasons but that WAS the crux of the problem..Abramovich's interference.
Elmago99
24-09-2010, 18:36
Got you...know what you mean! Any self-respecting coach with any integrity whatsoever would have taken this job knowing what Berlusconi is like and said to the mo'fo', " Up front, I take the job but I run the show. No one tells me who to play and when to play them....understood? Dinho included...no one is untouchable. I'm gone the minute that starts to happen." And you stick with that.
When Abramovich pushed to buy Sheva without Mourinho's say-so and then started pushing for Jose to play Sheva, Mourinho left even though he loved what he had achieved and had a great relationship with both fans and most of the players. You could argue there were other reasons but that WAS the crux of the problem..Abramovich's interference.
Well said.. we can say what we want about Mourinho..everyone knows he's an as*hole and plays mind games all the time..
but he sticks to his word, and he can be judged properly as he brings in the players that he wants, and even makes players play the positions he wants. Him leaving was the right thing to do.
MilanMikey
24-09-2010, 22:24
idc what ppl have to say about mourinho he IS the best coach hands down..
Kwasniefski
25-09-2010, 06:44
You won't get an argument from me, Mikey.I don't like the man, but I have nothing but respect for his ability to manage a club and he puts up with no interference from ownership.
idc what ppl have to say about mourinho he IS the best coach hands down..
IMO not even close. The best coaches play football the way it should be played.
This meddler plays boring football, yet spends millions and millions on players, more than anyone.
Eto'o as a wb is a proof that he should be removed from football lest we see the game begin to become extinct.
Kwasniefski
26-09-2010, 16:07
Arsene Wenger is a great coach...they play pretty football...what have they got to show for it, Tony? It's good to win a trophy once in a blue moon, isn't it? I do know what you mean though...what I do hate to see is a player with flair and an attacking spirit have to tone it down and play defensively. I guess you compromise if you want to win some trophies and titles....you need both.
I haven't been pleased by his decisions sometimes, especially regarding subs.. but I'm willing to give him a chance. Sacking him now IMO is too premature and won't solve anything.
OCmilano
28-09-2010, 15:47
I haven't been pleased by his decisions sometimes, especially regarding subs.. but I'm willing to give him a chance. Sacking him now IMO is too premature and won't solve anything.
It'll solve the sub situation.
This guy wont last more then a year with us. Im actually for sacking him now. But I know it wont happen.
ACMILAN1983
29-09-2010, 02:55
Why sack him?? The problems we have right now are similar to what Ancelotti in last years and Leo last season had, meaning the players aren't necessarily doing their job. The fact is Allegri looks closer to solving it right now than either of those two were as we are more compact than we were.
Fitness is another key problem, something I'm quite concerned about.
Filipéz 182
29-09-2010, 03:54
this is the worst thread on the forum! Why sack him after 7-8 games :D unbelievable!
Some people just dont have any patience at all and are always overreacting, when we loose everything is bad, when we win everything is god.
kastriot
29-09-2010, 04:42
this is the worst thread on the forum! Why sack him after 7-8 games :D unbelievable!
Some people just dont have any patience at all and are always overreacting, when we loose everything is bad, when we win everything is god.
7-8 games....this thread was created after the 4 th game :grinser:
There is no need to discuss his "sacking", it is still to early and whats more important we have not been "that bad" . If we didn`t sack leo after the first six games including the humiliation in the Derby we will not sack Allegri. However
He needs to get it together quickly. If we are to achieve a success this year( wining one of the Seria A or Cl....Ronaldinho is of vital importance, don`t kid yourselves that we are set with Robinho now. Even though he can be great player for us...the creative spark that Dinho can give to us is unmatched.
I personally hate the fact that Dinho walks every time he looses a ball, but he walked last year too and he was our best player. What I`m worried is the lack of confidence he has atm. (here LEO didi a great job). This lack of confidence of Dinho is partly to blame Allegri who quickly made Ibra the center of attention (should have handled the situation with more grace). And MGM did a horrible job in asking Dinho a huge pay cut at the begging of the season, clearly indicating that he is not that "important" to us anymore.( Don`t forget that we had players in ODDO,Kaladze and Dida who had 4 mil salary at the time)
I have some other issues with allegri, but I`m aware that he needs a lot of time if we want him to become the best.
Elmago99
29-09-2010, 10:01
7-8 games....this thread was created after the 4 th game :grinser:
There is no need to discuss his "sacking", it is still to early and whats more important we have not been "that bad" . If we didn`t sack leo after the first six games including the humiliation in the Derby we will not sack Allegri. However
He needs to get it together quickly. If we are to achieve a success this year( wining one of the Seria A or Cl....Ronaldinho is of vital importance, don`t kid yourselves that we are set with Robinho now. Even though he can be great player for us...the creative spark that Dinho can give to us is unmatched.
I personally hate the fact that Dinho walks every time he looses a ball, but he walked last year too and he was our best player. What I`m worried is the lack of confidence he has atm. (here LEO didi a great job). This lack of confidence of Dinho is partly to blame Allegri who quickly made Ibra the center of attention (should have handled the situation with more grace). And MGM did a horrible job in asking Dinho a huge pay cut at the begging of the season, clearly indicating that he is not that "important" to us anymore.( Don`t forget that we had players in ODDO,Kaladze and Dida who had 4 mil salary at the time)
I have some other issues with allegri, but I`m aware that he needs a lot of time if we want him to become the best.
This thread was a rush of blood to my head, I admit.. and Although I truly believe Allegri should be the coach until January at the EARLIEST..
I want to draw attention to the fact that if he plays with formations for 2-3 months... we will be out of SERIE A race... He needs to rotate the system properly to keep everyone fresh and their morale high....using versions of the 4-4-2,, which is so clearly the better formation for our team and our players..(Better for Ibra, Better for Pato, Better for RObinho, better for our entire midfield).. Only one it's "not good for" is Ronaldinho
He now says he's "convinced with the 4-3-3 as much as the 4-4-2".... Besides the Lecce Game, the 4-3-3 has not worked, leaves us so vulnerable in midfield and very predictable in offense. I'm merely getting ready for more crap to come..perhaps I'm too pessimistic...
I do however, think Milan Management ALSO needs to get their sh(t together as you've indicated, not offering Ronaldinho less money in the summer, not only talking about Ibra, the problems with Janku/Oddo/Kaladze.. and waiting so long to build a proper team... where there are still 2-3 rather LARGE holes in the team right now...
OCmilano
19-10-2010, 16:12
To alll the people who say give him time and were rushing into things, I cant wait to see your comments change and you join the Sacking Crew.
How do you defend his tactics? His lineup choices? Seedorf played 90min tonight against RM. Tell me why?
If Jose and Allegri changed sides for tonight do you think Jose would still win this game?
That was terrible ,the Milan players are clearly very talented but they are playing in a shapeless mess.No pressing ,no structure,too many players tactically erased from participating....
Terrible ,Leo's team was much better than this.
Elmago99
19-10-2010, 16:29
That was terrible ,the Milan players are clearly very talented but they are playing in a shapeless mess.No pressing ,no structure,too many players tactically erased from participating....
Terrible ,Leo's team was much better than this.
He must be sacked. How many times do you want to see this guy is not a good coach? By then we'll be out of Serie A AND champions League..
Seedorf, Gattuso, and Pirlo as your 3 man starting Midfield???? Against Real Madrid (Ronaldo, Di Maria, Ozil, Khedira, Alonso)
Then, Seedorf plays 90 mins???? after he looked as if he was Match Fixing he was so bad...
Then Most importantly... He fielded the Exact Same team as Chievo Verona just 3 days ago... How many times do we have to say YOU CANNOT have these old guys play every 3 days.. WTF is Allegri dumb?????????
He must go....
let's get out the bookies for who's the next coach...:5schal:
MilanMikey
19-10-2010, 23:48
elmago we think alike on almost everything i see you post :P completely agreed bye bye allegri! bring ancelotti back ffs or better yet mourinho :O
Relax.
we know the team is not as good as Madrid.. i know its disappointing, but come on, we have no wing backs and our midfield is a mess.
ACMILAN1983
20-10-2010, 03:10
Whilst not at all happy about yesterday's result and performance, I'm satisfied with what Allegri has achieved until now as our coach. I want him to stay.
Elmago99
20-10-2010, 10:01
Whilst not at all happy about yesterday's result and performance, I'm satisfied with what Allegri has achieved until now as our coach. I want him to stay.
You're satisfied he played Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Pirlo, & Gattuso as his diamond midfield against Real Madrid?
Especially since this was the EXACT MF 3 days before. I don't know, maybe I'm off base here, but he has not achieved much. His subs are late, his choices are bad.
ACMILAN1983
20-10-2010, 12:08
You're satisfied he played Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Pirlo, & Gattuso as his diamond midfield against Real Madrid?
Especially since this was the EXACT MF 3 days before. I don't know, maybe I'm off base here, but he has not achieved much. His subs are late, his choices are bad.
I reiterate I'm satisfied with what he's done until now. The players you mentioned playing doesn't bother me and I gave my thoughts prior to the game as to why i think they may start. I have no regrets with Allegri's lineup, but I do regret our performance.
Allegri hasn't achieved a huge amount in his managerial career but what he has achieved is very impressive. Tactically he's been intelligent since joining Milan and has used what he has pretty well. His subs were "late" only in a few games, otherwise I don't think he's got a problem with timing his subs.
Elmago, I bet you want to impeach Obama too...
You need to give people more time to prove themselves. It's only October, and we're tied with Inter and still have a great chance of qualifying. Stop being so annoyingly childish.
Elmago99
20-10-2010, 13:08
Elmago, I bet you want to impeach Obama too...
You need to give people more time to prove themselves. It's only October, and we're tied with Inter and still have a great chance of qualifying. Stop being so annoyingly childish.
First of all, I don't want to impeach Obama. I could care less about politics, everyone knows Obama doesn't decide anything anyways.
However, Yes we're tied with Inter, behind Lazio but look at OUR squad. Then, look at the Squad of Roma, Juventus, Sampdoria, Napoli, etc. Ibra, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, Pirlo, Nesta, T. Silva, .... I mean our players are FAR superior to the other teams in Serie A.
If we don't win the Scudetto this year, it's Allegri's fault, plain and simple. We have a deep squad, if rotated PROPERLY. Inter has shown to have a slight let-down from last year's Treble. I do not think their squad was re-freshed, and their coach IMO is Horrible.
Having said that, we need to give a real discussion on whether and for how much longer we're going to keep and play routinely Gattuso, Seedorf, and Pirlo. I don't want to :5horse: but they're just too slow, and sloppy.
I will continue being CONSISTENT in my thought process, which is to see this:
--------------Ibrahimovic----Pato------------------
------------------------Ganso (or Honda)---------
--------------Flamini----Jucilei----Boateng--------
Coentrao---------T. Silva---Nesta------------Abate/Zambrotta/Antonini
---------------------Abbiati/Amelia------------------
Subs: Pirlo, Lazzari, Robinho, Sokratis, Gattuso
Then we can win against the BIG teams like Chelsea, RM, Barca, Bayern, etc.
So what would Leonardo, Rijkaard, whoever, have done differently?
Will they be able to bench Ronaldinho?
kastriot
20-10-2010, 16:07
So what would Leonardo, Rijkaard, whoever, have done differently?
Will they be able to bench Ronaldinho?
My guts say that Leo would have done a better job with this "new" squad. I honestly believe that he achieved a maximum with the squad given. And this season shows that, right!!?? But that is smth we will never know.
I think we need to improve, but we are in the right track. What bothers me about this Milan is that since Carlo has left we have lost that big game mentality or we can not say that this team has the CL in their DNA anymore.
Lets not forget we are not Inter, we are a team with class act fans, and the right thing to do is now give time to our new coach and fairly new team, we are not that bad after all.
Actually, Milan lost their DNA (Champion League DNA) still in Ancelotti era, which was in 2007/08 when we lost to Arsenal. Our players' performance since that time were dropping because of ageing. With ageing players we can't compete with the best teams from Europe.
We need to refresh the team. Allegri still has players to rejuvenate the team but he has to utilize younger and high motivated players, not always use the same old and lazy ones.
Sacking Allegri is an awful idea RIGHT NOW. It would totally destabilize the squad (unless we get an immediate fix-it man like Hiddink/Capello or Mourinho himself), and disintegrate any sliver of hope for silverware.
That said I don't like him at all and think he's a total n00b. I've been waiting for a loooooong time for him to prove me wrong but to no avail. Leo was so much more clever and at the very least was fun to watch. The above though must be tempered by the fact that Allegri is learning from his mistakes and has thus far:
learned who NOT to play
learned that playing Ron as a trequartista can be beneficial
however these baby steps lean that his learning curve isn't as FAST as a club of Milan's stature requires.
He was out thought in every imagineable way by Mourinho and unlike Leonardo had the personnel to at least put up a decent fight. It was nauseating to see a team that boasted the likes of Ron, Rob, Pato and iHomo put in such an impotent showing..beaten by a defense that doesn't really inspire much confidence. Defensively very few could beat Mourinho so that's a given but the attack got 0 support from midfield. It staggers my imagination how Prince didn't make this starting lineup and how the ineffective and damaging Seedorf wasn't axed before the half.
Allegri you're a n00b and nothing would make me happier if you devoted your life to proving me wrong. Forza Milan!! Forza Ronaldo!!:5ok:
Did we all forget that Leo lost the derby 4:0? We lost at home to Zurich. It's still October and we're doing MUCH better than last year. People have short memories. Give the guy a break.
ACMILAN1983
21-10-2010, 02:46
I think there's an overestimation of our squad. We have brought a couple of star names which has lifted the quality of the side and makes us a contender, but let's not fool ourselves into believing we are a complete squad yet. We still don't have the quality in depth or completeness of Inter.
Elmago99
21-10-2010, 08:23
I think there's an overestimation of our squad. We have brought a couple of star names which has lifted the quality of the side and makes us a contender, but let's not fool ourselves into believing we are a complete squad yet. We still don't have the quality in depth or completeness of Inter.
Exactly. This is what I've been saying. However, playing the exact Midfield as LAST YEAR is not a step in the right direction...
I think it's still a bad idea to sack but he is making the same mistakes that date back to before he was with us. I read hints here on MM and other forums too...something like Seedorf's recent good form justified Allegri's selecting him for the Real game. Poor coaching if that's the case for at least 2 reasons. If recent good form/bad form is the issue then there are players that had to be dropped for the Real game. Secondly and more importantly managing the rotation for 11 games in 6 weeks.
Three in mid averaging 32 years old against this Real is poor coaching, I can't believe anybody disagrees.
ACMILAN1983
21-10-2010, 12:09
Exactly. This is what I've been saying. However, playing the exact Midfield as LAST YEAR is not a step in the right direction...
The only addition to the midfield for this year was Boateng, and whilst he's been good for us, I've also thought he unbalances the team at times. Allegri otherwise doesn't have a great deal to choose from than what was available last season.
I think it's still a bad idea to sack but he is making the same mistakes that date back to before he was with us. I read hints here on MM and other forums too...something like Seedorf's recent good form justified Allegri's selecting him for the Real game. Poor coaching if that's the case for at least 2 reasons. If recent good form/bad form is the issue then there are players that had to be dropped for the Real game. Secondly and more importantly managing the rotation for 11 games in 6 weeks.
Three in mid averaging 32 years old against this Real is poor coaching, I can't believe anybody disagrees.
I'm not sure I understand the mistakes he made before coaching us? Could you clarify please Reza?
I'm not sure playing an average age of 32 is the biggest problem, the lack of cohesion within the side was a bigger problem. Had we worked as a single unit then we could have made up for our physical weaknesses (though even then Real were a better side and we could have lost).
I'm not saying that 32 is an acceptable average age, but the question remains who is actually able to replace these ageing players. Flamini seems obvious to us yet has been overlooked by 3 coaches now, which for me is a cause for concern especially as Allegri picked him out before joining us. Something doesn't add up with him.
Boateng has impressed and if I have any major problem with Allegri right now it's not picking him to start. However, I've tried to understand and justify why Allegri may choose Seedorf over him in my prematch posts before the Real match.
hitmannq8
21-10-2010, 13:55
Reza means the same mistakes as Leo and Carlo before Allegri of selecting pirlo-rino-seedorf midfields. I'd like to see Flamini and Boateng start the next game, would also be nice to see Merkel playing. I dont want Seedorf any more. Enough is enough.
I'm not sure I understand the mistakes he made before coaching us? Could you clarify please Reza?
I'm not sure playing an average age of 32 is the biggest problem, the lack of cohesion within the side was a bigger problem. Had we worked as a single unit then we could have made up for our physical weaknesses (though even then Real were a better side and we could have lost).
I'm not saying that 32 is an acceptable average age, but the question remains who is actually able to replace these ageing players. Flamini seems obvious to us yet has been overlooked by 3 coaches now, which for me is a cause for concern especially as Allegri picked him out before joining us. Something doesn't add up with him.
Boateng has impressed and if I have any major problem with Allegri right now it's not picking him to start. However, I've tried to understand and justify why Allegri may choose Seedorf over him in my prematch posts before the Real match.
As hitmann says previous evidence of 3 in midfield is bad, them being older is only one aspect of it. Even with the likes of Boateng 3 in mid is questionable in my opinion. Against the quality of Real - and similar teams - especially.
What is preventing them from playing as unit? it's either them or the coach, it can't be anything else, can there? I am not basing this sentence on one Real game but in general and at some point one must figure out which is the problem and in this case there is as much chance that it is players than not, surely?
Flamini and others, there is always some mystery players that for unknown reasons don't get games. I have never understood that since there is no evidence that there is attitude problem with Flamini or some of the other players in similar situations that I can think of.
It is very hard to choose for Allegri, if he had this team at the start of the summer, I would question his decidions but now he has to make results and we have to admit that he is doing it in Serie A, he takes the old three for simple reason, these players know each other very well, the others are probably being prepared at the moment to take over in a month or two.
Let's be patient with the man, we have nothing to lose here, our first goal this year is Serie A and there is good chance we win it, as for Ch League, we will have to wait at least a year when we should patch all positions.
Remember that our team was always a slow starter, remember how crappy we were last fall, i watched those games and I watch now and there is big difference so stop moaning and stand by your team.
ACMILAN1983
22-10-2010, 02:56
As hitmann says previous evidence of 3 in midfield is bad, them being older is only one aspect of it. Even with the likes of Boateng 3 in mid is questionable in my opinion. Against the quality of Real - and similar teams - especially.
What is preventing them from playing as unit? it's either them or the coach, it can't be anything else, can there? I am not basing this sentence on one Real game but in general and at some point one must figure out which is the problem and in this case there is as much chance that it is players than not, surely?
Flamini and others, there is always some mystery players that for unknown reasons don't get games. I have never understood that since there is no evidence that there is attitude problem with Flamini or some of the other players in similar situations that I can think of.
Fair point about the midfield 3, although I think the problems are deeper than the midfield 3 when I talk about the team playing as a unit.
I honestly believe the players we have prevent the team playing as a good unit (unless they change attitude). A unit requires players who willl sacrifice themselves for the system, which not a huge number of our players do. Seedorf, Dinho, Ibra (he's sacrifices himself sometimes) and Pato are great individual talents but not one of them is known as a great team player. We're talking about near half the team there. Compare this to Sacchi's Milan where the only so called individual was Van Basten, who even then would play for the team.
We can't say for certain about Flamini, all we know is he's being overlooked by a third coach now.
It is very hard to choose for Allegri, if he had this team at the start of the summer, I would question his decidions but now he has to make results and we have to admit that he is doing it in Serie A, he takes the old three for simple reason, these players know each other very well, the others are probably being prepared at the moment to take over in a month or two.
Let's be patient with the man, we have nothing to lose here, our first goal this year is Serie A and there is good chance we win it, as for Ch League, we will have to wait at least a year when we should patch all positions.
Remember that our team was always a slow starter, remember how crappy we were last fall, i watched those games and I watch now and there is big difference so stop moaning and stand by your team.
I can't imagine if a fan doesn't moan about his team if his team played like a noob team ini Europe. We are not Bari or Cagliari. We have won it many times and the player there are experienced ones. But experience alone is not enough. You must have desire to play real football, not catwalkmodel one. This is the basic mistake of Allegri who just believed in experience like our previous coaches.
We were so lucky not trashed out by 6-0 or even more. How can be a fan not moan? I know he is new in CL but he faced Maurinho for many times. How can he not learn something from the games?
Defensively Allegri has made noticeable strides in our team. We're far less vulnerable to counters than Leo's version of Milan. I wouldn't have been surprised if Leo's Milan would have conceded more to Real. However, this team is clearly meant to be an offensive one. With the embarrassment of talent in our attack our display was awful. Just the same way I'm pretty sure Leo and Carlo would have been able to produce at least one goal with this team. My gut fear is that Al isn't a "big team" coach.
tim_milan
23-10-2010, 11:53
Dont u think it s a little too early to pass a judgement on Allegri s potential as a coach. He s never been in the CL and never coached a team like Milan before. So he s just learning. Give him some time guys. I think he will make the cut.
Allegri learns and improves all the time.....the only poblem is that his learning curve is rather gentle and he makes many mistakes :wallbang:
MilanMikey
24-10-2010, 14:04
i hope we win the derby this year. i hate inter with a passion
5costacurta19
25-10-2010, 12:44
I would love to pan printer in Ibra Robinho and Thiago silva to score to make it perfecto for me
I wouldnt be too critical Of allegri We are in a decent position even if we are too flawed But what is frustating is we maybe containing something that will shoot us up and its not being used
Grrrr
It's too soon to sack him. I was getting more and more mad with him, but I liked the Napoli line-up + the 3 points. Keep it up, Allegri. Hopefully we will see more Boateng and Robinho, and less Seedorf and Ronaldinho from now on. I want Milan to win the league so bad, firing a coach won't make it easier, so learn (quick) and shine, Allegri.
It seems that Allegri learned from Madrid game. He used Boateng instead of Seedorf and Milan defended as team much better from Madrid game. Before the first goal against Napoli, the team guarded well when Napoli got the ball. Pirlo also reminded the attackers to press the opponent when they lost ball or Napoli were having the ball, something really rare happened in the past. Ibra and Seedorf had also to ask the players to move forwards, not just stay at the back.
We lacked creativity without Seedorf and Ronaldinho but it could be do to the fact that that was the first time Robinho and Boateng played from the first minute. If it was due to the lack of creative player, we can change our style of play. Unpredictable and fast movement and pass plus good teamwork play should eliminate the need of a Seedorf. Seedorf can be super sub who can change the game when he comes in.
I never agree with sacking him but still I am waiting to see if he really learned from the game in Madrid.
IMO, Allegri really know how to use regista & fantasista, like Ancelotti, and he is building his system.
Playing R & F is very beautiful but could suffer from the disadvantage of focusing too much on technical area.
Ancelotti is lucky because his Chelsea are very physical already, and EPL doesn't require much tactical & technical skills, so he is a king there now by adapting his knowledge.
much of my (already negative) opinion about Allegri will be formed tonight
worst. coach. everrrrrrrrrr :o
OCmilano
30-10-2010, 15:58
Any new people joining the club after todays match?
The more Allegri stays, the more Ibra, Robinho, Pato, Ronaldinho and Boateng's talents and abilities are wasted. The decision to hire Allegri has to be one of the dumbest decision ever made by anyone. The guy is a joke. his line ups , his formations , his tactics just dont make any sense. Juventus and Real Madrid exposed his lack of ideas. He will repeat the same thing forever even when its clearly not working. Against Madrid he tries using his three forwards the same exact way as he did against Juve and clearly that was to predictable for Mourinho. The sad thing is he never learns. Look how long he takes before making any subs. sometimes his team is struggling and he has boateng or Robinho on the bench but doesnt make any changes until the 80th minute. Allegri is the worst coach in professional football. I can almost say with certainty that with Allegri, Ac Milan will never finish serie A in any position better than mid table.
Dont u think it s a little too early to pass a judgement on Allegri s potential as a coach. He s never been in the CL and never coached a team like Milan before. So he s just learning. Give him some time guys. I think he will make the cut.
The big problem is, he is not learning. What has he done different to make you believe he is learning? Don't you see he keeps trying the same exact ideas with every game? Dont you see how limited his ideas are? Against Auxierre, Ac Milan was completely lost and he was saved by circumstances that lead to robinho and boateng entering the game. Against Madrid, his three forwards were too predictable just as with Juve and any other team that has beat Milan so far.
You cannot restrict players like robinho and ronaldinho.. that in itself is a blunder. Robinhos greatest strength is his football iq. Use his the way brasil does. Let him go where ever he want and he will open doors to the goal. Same with ronaldinho, also a very intelligent player.Allegri is totally clueless. he has shown
It seems that Allegri learned from Madrid game. He used Boateng instead of Seedorf and Milan defended as team much better from Madrid game. Before the first goal against Napoli, the team guarded well when Napoli got the ball. Pirlo also reminded the attackers to press the opponent when they lost ball or Napoli were having the ball, something really rare happened in the past. Ibra and Seedorf had also to ask the players to move forwards, not just stay at the back.
We lacked creativity without Seedorf and Ronaldinho but it could be do to the fact that that was the first time Robinho and Boateng played from the first minute. If it was due to the lack of creative player, we can change our style of play. Unpredictable and fast movement and pass plus good teamwork play should eliminate the need of a Seedorf. Seedorf can be super sub who can change the game when he comes in.
I never agree with sacking him but still I am waiting to see if he really learned from the game in Madrid.
Watch how Madrid will mercilessly maul Ac Milan at san siro on tuesday.. then tell us aghain what Allegri has learned.
The big problem is, he is not learning. What has he done different to make you believe he is learning? Don't you see he keeps trying the same exact ideas with every game? Dont you see how limited his ideas are? Against Auxierre, Ac Milan was completely lost and he was saved by circumstances that lead to robinho and boateng entering the game. Against Madrid, his three forwards were too predictable just as with Juve and any other team that has beat Milan so far.
You cannot restrict players like robinho and ronaldinho.. that in itself is a blunder. Robinhos greatest strength is his football iq. Use his the way brasil does. Let him go where ever he want and he will open doors to the goal. Same with ronaldinho, also a very intelligent player.Allegri is totally clueless. he has shownTotally agree. $#!tlegri is actually beginning to scare me with his tactical rigidity and lack of imagination or creativity.
Pato, Ron, Rob and iHomo haven't suddenly become the CRAP they appear to be....Allegri seems clueless :5milan: We are still living off individual MOMENTS of brilliance off these guys...but what about when they have an offday or sometimes a player himself can't interpret an opponent's tactics what then?
We ALL know our fullbacks are lame and we need at least one world class CM but this impotent team is the result of an impotent coach. I refuse to believe or blame Anto's mistake totally for the second goal. Actually Anto recovered but even then got no support. It's the same in attack. If Pato or iHomo don't do it all on their own or get a perfect ball from Ronaldinho we're screwed :wallbang:
Regarless of what you all have said, I still believe in Allegri. :D
What you can see, I can be sure Allegri saw farther.
Main problem is not he didn't learn, is his students didn't learn.
He couldn't do anything when Ibra, Pato, Sokratis,... didn't score or Antonini was the reason for all the goals: 2 mistakes & 1 assist.
I can almost say with certainty that with Allegri, Ac Milan will never finish serie A in any position better than mid table.
I will remember your say. :)
Watch how Madrid will mercilessly maul Ac Milan at san siro on tuesday.. then tell us aghain what Allegri has learned.
Saw the time when I posted. It was before vs Madrid in San Siro. To talk about future, let's talk in the future. What I saw he learned from Madrid game which one is that he didn't use same players (old players).
Totally agree. $#!tlegri is actually beginning to scare me with his tactical rigidity and lack of imagination or creativity.
Pato, Ron, Rob and iHomo haven't suddenly become the CRAP they appear to be....Allegri seems clueless :5milan: We are still living off individual MOMENTS of brilliance off these guys...but what about when they have an offday or sometimes a player himself can't interpret an opponent's tactics what then?
We ALL know our fullbacks are lame and we need at least one world class CM but this impotent team is the result of an impotent coach. I refuse to believe or blame Anto's mistake totally for the second goal. Actually Anto recovered but even then got no support. It's the same in attack. If Pato or iHomo don't do it all on their own or get a perfect ball from Ronaldinho we're screwed :wallbang:
May I remind you mate, the player (Ronaldo) who had problem with transvestite is not playing anymore with AC Milan. I thought you know that.
:guw:
May I remind you mate, the player (Ronaldo) who had problem with transvestite is not playing anymore with AC Milan. I thought you know that.
:guw:Ronaldo got drunk out of his mind picked up who he thought were female prostitutes and upon discovery of his fail RAN. He did not stand up and passionately kiss Gerrard Pique. Now that's out of the way how about posting something relevant? :rollani:
Like I said since week 3, Alegri is a joke and I am scared sh*tles of what Real can do to us in return game.
Like I said since week 3, Alegri is a joke and I am scared sh*tles of what Real can do to us in return game.
I am still waiting for the game vs Madrid in San Siro to know if he has really learned a lot from the previous game in Madrid.
As much as I have reservations about $#!tlgri(don't quite hate him yet :D), I think it's imperative we win vs Madrid for sooooo many reasons. One is the obvious financial reward. Another is that the status of the team has been taking a beating of late. Hence knowing the above the players will be more motivated than usual to come out in full force. So if we win wednesday I won't know how much credit I could give Allegri for it.
ZvonimirBoban
01-11-2010, 11:05
Any new people joining the club after todays match?
No, it's quite silly how only a loss will do the damage to the coach's reputations. Several loss, maybe, but not this one. (MAYBE) only the thrashing of 4-0 from our biggest rivals or some random minnows will do. Actually we're in top three, one point from Inter (who cares about Lazio anyway), scudetto is in sight....
"Regarding the defence, it is strong or weak depending on the work they do in midfield and attack. It's all a question of balance that Allegri has probably not found just yet," Ancelloti being modest on Allegri...
Why hasn't Allegri ever played all the 4( dinho, binho, ibra, pato) forwards together when they are healthy? Many will say because its a defensive suicide and Allegri clearly thinks so. But this is the best possible defense Ac Milan could ever field. The day you will see the four all together on the field , you will see a Milan that looks like barca or brazil.. Three forward are easily shut down if there isnt a supportive midfield.
Think about it this way... barcelona plays Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa and Messi.. these are five forwards with very little defensive capabilities except for a bit of Xavi.. and still destroy teams. Even a defensive coach as Mourinho still fields four forward(ozil, di maria, ronaldo, higuain). Brazil does it, Arsenal does it but Allegri is scared to death. Instead he would rather play an old seedorf and have ronaldinho or Robinho or Pato on the bench. Seriously speaking, does anyone here believe that seedorf will offer anything on the pitch better than Robinho, or Dinho or Pato? If Seedorf was a Mascherano or a Yaya Toure, maybe I could buy that. This ideology of playing seedorf ahead of the geniuses is enough to tell me all I need to know about Allegri. He is clueless.
"Regarding the defence, it is strong or weak depending on the work they do in midfield and attack. It's all a question of balance that Allegri has probably not found just yet," Ancelloti being modest on Allegri...
Why hasn't Allegri ever played all the 4( dinho, binho, ibra, pato) forwards together when they are healthy? Many will say because its a defensive suicide and Allegri clearly thinks so. But this is the best possible defense Ac Milan could ever field. The day you will see the four all together on the field , you will see a Milan that looks like barca or brazil.. Three forward are easily shut down if there isnt a supportive midfield.
Think about it this way... barcelona plays Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa and Messi.. these are five forwards with very little defensive capabilities except for a bit of Xavi.. and still destroy teams. Even a defensive coach as Mourinho still fields four forward(ozil, di maria, ronaldo, higuain). Brazil does it, Arsenal does it but Allegri is scared to death. Instead he would rather play an old seedorf and have ronaldinho or Robinho or Pato on the bench. Seriously speaking, does anyone here believe that seedorf will offer anything on the pitch better than Robinho, or Dinho or Pato? If Seedorf was a Mascherano or a Yaya Toure, maybe I could buy that. This ideology of playing seedorf ahead of the geniuses is enough to tell me all I need to know about Allegri. He is clueless.
Fail. (Xavi and Iniesta are midfielders. Xavi a forward? You are what you think of Allegri :guw: )
"Regarding the defence, it is strong or weak depending on the work they do in midfield and attack. It's all a question of balance that Allegri has probably not found just yet," Ancelloti being modest on Allegri...
Why hasn't Allegri ever played all the 4( dinho, binho, ibra, pato) forwards together when they are healthy? Many will say because its a defensive suicide and Allegri clearly thinks so. But this is the best possible defense Ac Milan could ever field. The day you will see the four all together on the field , you will see a Milan that looks like barca or brazil.. Three forward are easily shut down if there isnt a supportive midfield.
Think about it this way... barcelona plays Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa and Messi.. these are five forwards with very little defensive capabilities except for a bit of Xavi.. and still destroy teams. Even a defensive coach as Mourinho still fields four forward(ozil, di maria, ronaldo, higuain). Brazil does it, Arsenal does it but Allegri is scared to death. Instead he would rather play an old seedorf and have ronaldinho or Robinho or Pato on the bench. Seriously speaking, does anyone here believe that seedorf will offer anything on the pitch better than Robinho, or Dinho or Pato? If Seedorf was a Mascherano or a Yaya Toure, maybe I could buy that. This ideology of playing seedorf ahead of the geniuses is enough to tell me all I need to know about Allegri. He is clueless.
I strongly disagree, you want to know why ?
Pato, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic are "lazy" forwards, what I mean by saying such a thing is that they don't track back when they lose the ball (they do it once here and there) ... Their workrate is very poor with and without the ball.
Did you notice how it is difficult to give them the ball sometimes ? It's because they don't move.
You want to compare to Real Madrid ? All the players you quoted press, track back if they lose the ball, and when they don't have the ball, they don't wait for a pass, they move, giving solutions to their partners (and as a consequence, losing less often the ball, and as a consequence, needing to track back less often).
You want to compare to Barcelona ? It's the same thing, the workrate off the ball if huge, and as a consequence, a player always has two or more solutions to make a pass, ...
Nowadays, regarding talent, I don't think we're second to any team in the world, our team could easily be back to the top (of course, we still need some additions here and there, especially in defence and midfield), but the main difference between us and the best teams right now is the workrate of our players. Our players don't really press, they rarely track back, and when they don't have the ball, they wait for the pass. It's a combination of factors making me think that having the 4 attacking players on the pitch at the same time nowadays would be suicidal !!
Kaka1899
02-11-2010, 11:41
I strongly disagree, you want to know why ?
Pato, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic are "lazy" forwards, what I mean by saying such a thing is that they don't track back when they lose the ball (they do it once here and there) ... Their workrate is very poor with and without the ball.
Did you notice how it is difficult to give them the ball sometimes ? It's because they don't move.
You want to compare to Real Madrid ? All the players you quoted press, track back if they lose the ball, and when they don't have the ball, they don't wait for a pass, they move, giving solutions to their partners (and as a consequence, losing less often the ball, and as a consequence, needing to track back less often).
You want to compare to Barcelona ? It's the same thing, the workrate off the ball if huge, and as a consequence, a player always has two or more solutions to make a pass, ...
Nowadays, regarding talent, I don't think we're second to any team in the world, our team could easily be back to the top (of course, we still need some additions here and there, especially in defence and midfield), but the main difference between us and the best teams right now is the workrate of our players. Our players don't really press, they rarely track back, and when they don't have the ball, they wait for the pass. It's a combination of factors making me think that having the 4 attacking players on the pitch at the same time nowadays would be suicidal !!
when you think about it with KPB,Flamini and Ambro aside we have a very lazy and low work rate midfield as well, yeah Pirlo runs back but how often does he make a succesful tackle or block? the same with Seedorf sometimes he might track back but he is there more as a number than a defending unit, we would need a vintage Rino or Mascherano for us to play all 4 of the strikers imo.
OCmilano
02-11-2010, 20:53
COACH ALLEGRI:
ON THE MATCH AGAINST JUVENTUS ON SATURDAY:
”We played well against Juventus on Saturday evening, it was one our best performances so far this season
from official site.
If that was one of our best performances Im even more depressed.
ACMILAN1983
03-11-2010, 04:14
when you think about it with KPB,Flamini and Ambro aside we have a very lazy and low work rate midfield as well, yeah Pirlo runs back but how often does he make a succesful tackle or block? the same with Seedorf sometimes he might track back but he is there more as a number than a defending unit, we would need a vintage Rino or Mascherano for us to play all 4 of the strikers imo.
Actually, I think there was some statistics which showed Pirlo made most interceptions of any Milan player.
The problem is he's easily beaten by pace often with little cover behind.
Actually, I think there was some statistics which showed Pirlo made most interceptions of any Milan player.
The problem is he's easily beaten by pace often with little cover behind.
Pirlo is good in interceptions, true. Especially in the past it was so awesome to see. Anyway, Pirlo really is one of our hard workest midfielders.
I think he also runs the most, or at leas tused to be (over 10K per game). Yup, no kidding (even though he is slow).
IN this season, he has the most number of passes and pass success (again, not obvious, but stats show).
OCmilano
03-11-2010, 17:09
Can we organize a Allegri sacking tour for the holidays?
All I want for Christmas is Allegri gone :o
Filipéz 182
13-12-2010, 12:28
Its quiet in here :D
OCmilano
13-12-2010, 17:17
SACK ALLEGRI!!!!!!!!!! Loud enough?
Ill be a fan of his when he wins the CL and the Seria A..
ZvonimirBoban
13-12-2010, 20:27
That means to prove he can (or cannot) win CL and Serie A, he cannot be sacked before end of season.
OCmilano
13-12-2010, 20:47
That means to prove he can (or cannot) win CL and Serie A, he cannot be sacked before end of season.
Yea that dream is done. Ibra saved him. So if he can prove it by the end of the year Ill approve of him too.
Yea that dream is done. Ibra saved him. So if he can prove it by the end of the year Ill approve of him too.
Wow, Ibra saved him? Don't you see how he change our team? Game against Bologna for example as our latest position of development made by Allegri? Ibra is crucial for Milan but he is far away from saving Allegri's job.
The games Milan have done since we were losing points or since we lost against Juve, Madrid are not games where we just put long ball to Ibra and boom, Ibra scores. NO. Those games are games developed gradually. At the beginning we tried to play as unit and he used 3 DMs to help us to play as a good system. Yeah, Ibra did single meaningful goal in a couple of games in this stage but after that we were getting better and better (except vs Ajax, meaningless game) until vs Sampdoria (I only heard that we have many chances), Brescia and Bologna proved that Ibra doesn't save Allegri's job. Allegri him self saves his job. He used his creativity to maximize the performance of these team. The last two games proved how his approach has to be given credit with his try to put Boateng to play behind two strikers.
What he has done generally is good-very good. Yeah, he has great attackers but a note should be taken that Ibra was bad in Barcelona last year, Robinho had to adapt with new tactic, strategy especially to Italy and Pato is still a young player who can't play well consistently.
Allegri has been great in bringing out best of his players. First example is of course Abate, who has been playing much better compared to last season. Seedorf played well in some games. Robinho accelerated his adaptation time and is now our important player. Boateng with his limitation (we have to face it, Boateng is not a WC player) has been utilized optimally especially in the last two games. Allegri is not also a stubborn, he used Pirlo where Pirlo can give more advantage to Milan and keeps Ambrosini playing as DM in front of two CBs.
I do think he is smart coach and has big influence to his team. He is not yet a great coach for Milan since we are only in the middle of the season but until now I am satisfied with his achievement.
Ibra saved him? Yeah yeah whatever. Just like Sheva and Kaka saved Carletto's a** in our last winning Serie A and UCL respectively. Oh, and didn't Tomasson claimed the credit for once?
It's freaking ludicrous how far can someone go when he simply dislikes another person. For this kind of people, the glass is ALWAYS half empty!
ACMILAN1983
14-12-2010, 09:00
until vs Sampdoria (I only heard that we have many chances)
We played very well against Samp and deserved the win.
Anyway, Allegri at this point surely deserves credit for his work. For the first time in over a decade I'm seeing Milan consistently playing as a single unit every match (something not even Carlo got in his best sides), and it shows in the results, where we've conceded only the odd goal in 7 games or something.
Allegri is also using his players to their potential and hasn't compromised his system in doing so, this is a very important feat. Players are also highly motivated too, whether they play in the first team or come off the bench, every player is focused and prepared to give a lot.
Finally, to the comment about Ibra saving Allegri's job. Ibra in his career has been coached by Capello, Mourinho and Guardiola (who's proving himself to be a very capable coach at Barca). Under all three coaches Ibra was a solo artist but never a player known to work for the team. Under Allegri, he's changed his game, and not only works for the team, but is one of our hardest working players. In doing this he's not only as good as he was for any previous club he's played for, but he's taken his game to a whole new level. I have no doubts that Allegri has some input in this regard, and so as much as Ibra may have helped Allegri, the coach has also helped the player.
Yes, one of thing that I like from Allegri, he knows how to use his player at best and also how to bring out the best from his player. It is not a coincidence that Ibra could play in such level. Same goes to Boateng, Abate and Gattuso. With Dinho I can't give comment, not all players can be changed, right? :D
If Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta and I are going to have a coffee now, we would put us in line and keeping the space unintentionally.
I like your signature :D
It is supprising to know there are debates about sacking Allegri now, so :guw:
Ibra saved him? Yeah yeah whatever. Just like Sheva and Kaka saved Carletto's a** in our last winning Serie A and UCL respectively. Oh, and didn't Tomasson claimed the credit for once?
It's freaking ludicrous how far can someone go when he simply dislikes another person. For this kind of people, the glass is ALWAYS half empty!
Yes, he did. :D and to think it really was Pippo's goal to start with. :o
I like your signature :D
It is supprising to know there are debates about sacking Allegri now, so :guw:
Tell me about it. :1whis::5horse:
Lebanese
14-12-2010, 21:34
Wow, Ibra saved him? Don't you see how he change our team? Game against Bologna for example as our latest position of development made by Allegri? Ibra is crucial for Milan but he is far away from saving Allegri's job.
The games Milan have done since we were losing points or since we lost against Juve, Madrid are not games where we just put long ball to Ibra and boom, Ibra scores. NO. Those games are games developed gradually. At the beginning we tried to play as unit and he used 3 DMs to help us to play as a good system. Yeah, Ibra did single meaningful goal in a couple of games in this stage but after that we were getting better and better (except vs Ajax, meaningless game) until vs Sampdoria (I only heard that we have many chances), Brescia and Bologna proved that Ibra doesn't save Allegri's job. Allegri him self saves his job. He used his creativity to maximize the performance of these team. The last two games proved how his approach has to be given credit with his try to put Boateng to play behind two strikers.
What he has done generally is good-very good. Yeah, he has great attackers but a note should be taken that Ibra was bad in Barcelona last year, Robinho had to adapt with new tactic, strategy especially to Italy and Pato is still a young player who can't play well consistently.
Allegri has been great in bringing out best of his players. First example is of course Abate, who has been playing much better compared to last season. Seedorf played well in some games. Robinho accelerated his adaptation time and is now our important player. Boateng with his limitation (we have to face it, Boateng is not a WC player) has been utilized optimally especially in the last two games. Allegri is not also a stubborn, he used Pirlo where Pirlo can give more advantage to Milan and keeps Ambrosini playing as DM in front of two CBs.
I do think he is smart coach and has big influence to his team. He is not yet a great coach for Milan since we are only in the middle of the season but until now I am satisfied with his achievement.
If you are missing games out, i can share with you my milantime premium account.
Thank you Lebanese. What is milantime by the way?
Lebanese
15-12-2010, 17:12
Thank you Lebanese. What is milantime by the way?
Its a website where u can watch matches, primavera matches, milanello training and other stuff milantime.acmilan.com
Yes, he did. :D and to think it really was Pippo's goal to start with. :o
i seem to remember 2 group of players celebrating; some with Pippo and the others with JDT. :whie: hilarious! But who was credited with the goal.
OCmilano
18-12-2010, 16:48
Hey Allegri fans. Roma, Juve @ home losses. How is this coach so amazing? Seedorf looked great and brilliant move to put in R80 at the 85 min .
Fk this coach. What a douche.
Nothing about sacking but he certainly is not what you would call proactive, is he?
Sacking him because of only lost again Roma is unacceptable. He is very terrible at changing player but he is good-very good at other things. He should however should learn FAST to improve his decision at changing player.
edysupriadi
18-12-2010, 17:24
if a coach was sacked just because of one or two losses ,there would be many many many coaches without a club by then.. we're on top because of him, but of course we all feel that he has to improve further on certain things (which i think he will),
OCmilano
18-12-2010, 20:11
Guys Im not saying sack him because of 1-2 losses. He hasnt proved **** to me. How many of the big teams have we beaten this year? Inter? Yea take the penalty away from that game and what do we have 0-0 tie.
Seedorf coming on today against Roma. Ok np but if it isnt working and seedorf is stinking up the place put in someone else maybe R80 instead of 5 min.
These are the little mistake that get me. And when he proves that he can handle and see off Roma like teams @ home especially.
Anyways I havent change my stance on him from day one.
OCmilano
18-12-2010, 20:12
if a coach was sacked just because of one or two losses ,there would be many many many coaches without a club by then.. we're on top because of him, but of course we all feel that he has to improve further on certain things (which i think he will),
Ibra is a huge reason were on top my friend. He has saved our asses countless of times.
Elmago99
18-12-2010, 22:01
Me and OC seem to be very emotional when it comes to Allegri. He seems too soft for my tastes... He's not fiesty like Mourinho..he also seems to be sleeping during the game..and never makes changes when needed. This is so frustrating... I'm not sure what he's done that is so great. Inter, Juve, and Roma aren't that good..and it makes us look good..
We're far better then we were past few seasons, but it's more because we have ummmmm IBRA, ROBINHO, BOATENG, T. Silva....not because we've all of a sudden had a tactical mastermind.. let's be honest....
losing to Roma, and Juve.. a loss to R. Madrid.. then a draw after being up 2-1 IN SAN SIRO to R. Madrid... I'm not impressed I'm sorry...
I'm not saying SACK HIM.. but i'm saying " let's be real " this guy is not as good as everyone thought. he's AVERAGE...at best...and got out-coached by both Del Neri & Ranieri....end of story
Guys Im not saying sack him because of 1-2 losses. He hasnt proved **** to me. How many of the big teams have we beaten this year? Inter? Yea take the penalty away from that game and what do we have 0-0 tie.
Seedorf coming on today against Roma. Ok np but if it isnt working and seedorf is stinking up the place put in someone else maybe R80 instead of 5 min.
These are the little mistake that get me. And when he proves that he can handle and see off Roma like teams @ home especially.
Anyways I havent change my stance on him from day one.
I appreciate your consistency, as in your never-ending support of Onyewu. Listen, why don't you leave this thread alone and come back when Allegri was fired or at the end of this season, whichever comes earlier?
Ibra is a huge reason were on top my friend. He has saved our asses countless of times.
That's your opinion, and obviously you are not going to change that. So I am going to respect that.
Me and OC seem to be very emotional when it comes to Allegri. He seems too soft for my tastes... He's not fiesty like Mourinho..he also seems to be sleeping during the game..and never makes changes when needed. This is so frustrating... I'm not sure what he's done that is so great. Inter, Juve, and Roma aren't that good..and it makes us look good..
We're far better then we were past few seasons, but it's more because we have ummmmm IBRA, ROBINHO, BOATENG, T. Silva....not because we've all of a sudden had a tactical mastermind.. let's be honest....
losing to Roma, and Juve.. a loss to R. Madrid.. then a draw after being up 2-1 IN SAN SIRO to R. Madrid... I'm not impressed I'm sorry...
I'm not saying SACK HIM.. but i'm saying " let's be real " this guy is not as good as everyone thought. he's AVERAGE...at best...and got out-coached by both Del Neri & Ranieri....end of story
Just because a person is polite doesn't mean that he is not tough. From what I read, Allegri made it clear to all players in the first day that he is the boss and only he is the boss. From what we all saw, Allegri decided that Ronaldinho would not be part of his plan and he firmly implemented it. It is very painful for Ronaldinho and his fans, but Allegri makes sure that it goes through as planned. Mourinho happens to be rude and obnoxious, but being an a$s is not the key element for a coach to succeed.
I don't know that if Allegri is better than Ancelotti but he is definitely better than Leonardo. What he lacks is experience, the experience as a big club coach. Of course we lost several big games this season but other than the two against Real Madrid (yes, even the draw was lucky), Milan didn't do so bad. Roma and Juventus were just bitches getting extremely lucky. They didn't deserve even one point let alone three. I say that Allegri is doing a very fine job in Serie A so far and I expect him to do better while the season goes on. Of course we have a weak league to thank for, but last season was the same yet we couldn't capitalize. Credits should be given whenever due.
Allegri may not turn out to be another Capello, but I am hopeful that he would. He does impress me, and what's better is that he seems to impress Berlusconi, which is important as according to Berlusconi himself, he didn't like Ancelotti or Leonardo which was why he didn't spend big bucks. Berlusconi may as well be bullsh1tting (he is a politician), but I am hoping that if Allegri can get players that he want, and Milan can get rid of some dead wood, we could come back and return to old glory in no time.
Bottom line is: whether you like him or not, he is our coach, and please support him. I will not want to come into this thread every time we lose a game. It is so predictable and getting boring. :o
Cheers.
:1ole:
"I'm not saying SACK HIM". Yeah right Elmago my buddy. All you did was to open a thread named, erm, Sack Allegri, as early as September.
Funny how this thread seemed "quite" (as Filipez said) for over a month when things went smoothly, and then all these reactions after a defeat.
"Haven't change my stance from day one"? No disrespect OC, but how can anyone have a healthy debate when you've decided it all from day one? I'm not gonna tell you what to do because I respect your principle, but here's mine: take/judge the coach's decisions one game at a time. Or in Xudong's words: credit should be given whenever due.
Ever since the thread was opened, when things didn't do well and we needed a change, Allegri seemed to always make substitutions very, very late into the game. I too, a sort of pro Allegri if you call so, was frustrated by that. But then there are some good things that you, the anti Allegri, sadly or even deliberately overlook. The fact that we play more like a team now (Ibra, who saved Allegri's ass according to you, is now willing to work hard with the group; read what Sacchi had said about that), the fact that we've finally found the balance in attack and defense either with 3 DMs and a treq or playing Pirlo as LCM and Boateng as a treq, or the fact that even after two defeats against Juve and Roma at San Siro (an alarming issue, I agree), we are still leading the league by 3 points into the winter break and qualified to the next round in UCL.
Those two are our objectives this season, and judging from the standings, we're doing fine. Far from perfect alright, but that's what another winter mercato and a week or two of preparation under warmer climate are for. The latter is important because didn't those 3 players who saved Allegri's bacon came pretty late too? The coach could only make adjustments here and there during the season (and thus the reasons why we didn't have a great start) and not beforehand as he would've liked.
Only at the end of the season can we rightfully judge the coach (did we manage to hold on to the lead we have now in the league? how far did we go in UCL?), but NOT at every defeat!
ACMILAN1983
19-12-2010, 04:39
Allegri's done a fine job so far as Milan coach, and it shows in his results so far. His subs are late or sometimes ineffective, but there are two things that must be accounted for in this.
First, before judging his subs, we must see what a coach is trying to do with what is on the pitch. In last night's match, before bringing on Dinho, Allegri did try to change things on the pitch. Most notable was moving Seedorf into the regista role and Ambro onto the left to offer more driving runs from deep. It didn't work, but Allegri did attempt proactive moves.
The second thing to consider is who is on the bench. Last night we had Amelia, Montelongo, Oddo, Yepes, Merkel, Strasser and Ronaldinho. Of all of these players, realistically we can only expect Dinho to actually make an impact on the game. This is the same Dinho who has been frequently criticised this season for his lack of running, work rate or positive influence in the side. To bring him on was a major risk, especially as the side was slow and static anyway. He is also a player who clearly has no part in Allegri's plans.
I'm not going to say Allegri is faultless, but his positive contribution to the side far outweighs his faults.
Allegri cant beat any of the top teams. Roma made us look like a mid table side.
If things don't change Tottenham will kick our ass.
I wouldn't say that. I still think that the loss to Juventus and Roma were both unfortunate. Of course one can always argue that perhaps Allegri could have done something, but I still think he is not at most fault.
As I said, I am no expert (after watching football for more than 20 years, it is embarrassing to admit so), so I wouldn't be able to really make a professional and convincing judgment like Brasileiro does on talents. I may very well be wrong but at this moment, this Milan side looks quite refreshing. Players seem loyal to the coach, and most are willing to run more and cover more ground, and as a result, we have been able to win most of the games. In Serie A, so far I couldn't think of a match we played that we deserved to lose (even the loss against Cesena). Last season, we played a few games that were so embarrassing and had no chance whatsoever to win; also after we failed to beat Napoli and leapfrog Inter Merda for the first spot, we all of a sudden lost all the momentum. Players were visibly uninterested and it looked to me that everyone was just waiting for the season to be over. We are not seeing that this season. I am upset to see that Seedorf wasn't willing to run, to defend, and of course upset with Allegri for why would he still put him on. But I would rather believe that Allegri had no other options. He was indeed put on bench for Boateng and Pirlo. The reason that he was playing last game was purely unlucky for Milan when Pirlo had to go off due to injury, and I am sure that Allegri didn't value Merkel high enough, so he had to gamble on Seedorf. Anyway, I will give Allegri my vote of confidence at least for now. :)
ACMILAN1983
19-12-2010, 15:08
To say we can't beat any of the top sides is a bit of an exaggeration. We've played 8 of the top 10 sides in Serie A (Udinese we have yet to play and can't face ourselves) and have won against 4 of them, drawn 2 and lost 2.
We beat Napoli and Inter, two big teams and Palermo who have caused us lots of problems in recent years and have become one of Italy's more prominent sides. The draw against Sampdoria really deserved a victory and the same could be said against Lazio, which was before Allegri had even found the balance in the side.
Against both Juve and Roma we were really the better side on the pitch but failed to take our chances and then recover after going behind. There is naturally disappointment that we lost these matches in this way, but we don't need to make more of it than necessary.
The only big team we've faced this season that I felt we were inferior to was Real, who we were seconds away from beating.
Just finished watching Real Madrid vs. Sevilla. I only watched the final 30 minutes or so. Real Madrid won 1-0 despite having one player down. Got to admit that Mourinho is a very good coach. Granted, Real Madrid has quality players but Real Madrid kept attacking until the very end which had to do with the coach. And once they took the lead, while everyone was celebrating, Mourinho immediately arranged for the substitution. It was evident that he has a plan, thinks quickly, and is a great motivator on top of those.
I really hate his guts though, but to be fair, I think he is a top-notch coach these days. I am just happy that there is a certain team FC Barcelona in Spain that could kill his ego.
I don't see him coming to Milan at all. He is that type of coach that will demand all authority which Berlusconi will not tolerate. Otherwise, it would be interesting.
To say we can't beat any of the top sides is a bit of an exaggeration. We've played 8 of the top 10 sides in Serie A (Udinese we have yet to play and can't face ourselves) and have won against 4 of them, drawn 2 and lost 2.
We beat Napoli and Inter, two big teams and Palermo who have caused us lots of problems in recent years and have become one of Italy's more prominent sides. The draw against Sampdoria really deserved a victory and the same could be said against Lazio, which was before Allegri had even found the balance in the side.
Against both Juve and Roma we were really the better side on the pitch but failed to take our chances and then recover after going behind. There is naturally disappointment that we lost these matches in this way, but we don't need to make more of it than necessary.
The only big team we've faced this season that I felt we were inferior to was Real, who we were seconds away from beating.
True, i think. Plus, this season we look more comfortable with mid-table teams and that means less heartaches in a Sunday afternoon vs. let's say Bologna. The loss vs Roma was bad but in a way can teach us some things. Like the defensive ineptitude of Seedorf, but again, we all know that already.
ZvonimirBoban
20-12-2010, 15:37
Hey Allegri fans. Roma, Juve @ home losses. How is this coach so amazing? Seedorf looked great and brilliant move to put in R80 at the 85 min .
Fk this coach. What a douche.
Then fk and sack Leo after 4-0 derby loss.
OCmilano
20-12-2010, 19:08
Then fk and sack Leo after 4-0 derby loss.
Hey ZB I know you are not a stupid person. Leo vs Allegri is not fair (especially with the player diffrence) Jose vs Benitez is something I would understans (same players from last year)
Why dont you open up a thread called I love Allegri and never want to sack him and show your love there.
ZvonimirBoban
21-12-2010, 00:27
Hey ZB I know you are not a stupid person. Leo vs Allegri is not fair (especially with the player diffrence) Jose vs Benitez is something I would understans (same players from last year)
Why dont you open up a thread called I love Allegri and never want to sack him and show your love there.
Yeah, Leo vs Allegri is not fair, considering the one was never coaching any clubs or youth team before in charge of Milan, and the other one was two-times Serie A Manager of the Year.
Not to compare two coaches because they don't have same players in their disposal is nonsense. By that logic, asking whether Allegri could withstand Inter in last year derby with exactly same players as Leo's is as unfair as asking whether Leo can get to the pole position in winter if only he had Ibra, Robinho, and Boateng.
Okay, sack him, sack him now, I don't care if we can't find any suitable coach, or if it means we'll look like a moron by sacking our coach after we finally become campione d'inferno after 7 years long, or if it means we're being ungrateful. What do you expect from him? Finish Serie A with 38 wins out of 38 matches?
Honestly... talking of sacking coach WHEN WE'RE ON TOP, and NOT IN DANGER OF BEING KICKED OUT OF CL? If you're talking about sacking a coach of a defending champion who's currently 13 points off the pace in league, and not even in CL zone, and could only finish 2nd in a CL group they're expected to top... then I can understand.
I'm not in love with him, I'm in love with the team I support the most and everything inside it. Think clearly and let's talk about sacking him when Tottenham kick our a$$es out of CL in February, or we suffered 5 straight defeats after New Year.
But NOT now.
OCMilano, you won't be THAT stupid, won't you?
Come on guys. Allegri might not have convinced the world yet that he is the messiah but fire him? Are we really having this discussion? Yes, he makes mistakes. Like most coaches do. Yes, he may be obsessive at times. Like for instance (and not necessarily because i am Greek myself) i can't understand why Papa has been distinctively marginalized after just ONE terrible game.
Still. He is the coach. So far Max Allegri guided this team through the CL groups and in case we are too familiar with the latter, the 3 point lead in Seria A just before Xmas break, plus a win vs Inter, both can secure Allegri's job, at least for a bit more, don't you think?
And yes, he lost two derbies (Roma/Juve) but in both games Milan were not actually worse than the opponent.
I mean, come on. He never said he was Gandalf for god's shake.
We are top of the table, we are through the CL next round, facing a team that we actually might have a chance beating and personally, i think we play better and more attractive football than last year.
Sometimes i disagree with Allegri's choices. But sack the man?
That would be insane.
OCmilano
21-12-2010, 10:14
Come on guys. Allegri might not have convinced the world yet that he is the messiah but fire him? Are we really having this discussion? Yes, he makes mistakes. Like most coaches do. Yes, he may be obsessive at times. Like for instance (and not necessarily because i am Greek myself) i can't understand why Papa has been distinctively marginalized after just ONE terrible game.
Still. He is the coach. So far Max Allegri guided this team through the CL groups and in case we are too familiar with the latter, the 3 point lead in Seria A just before Xmas break, plus a win vs Inter, both can secure Allegri's job, at least for a bit more, don't you think?
And yes, he lost two derbies (Roma/Juve) but in both games Milan were not actually worse than the opponent.
I mean, come on. He never said he was Gandalf for god's shake.
We are top of the table, we are through the CL next round, facing a team that we actually might have a chance beating and personally, i think we play better and more attractive football than last year.
Sometimes i disagree with Allegri's choices. But sack the man?
That would be insane.
I hope Im wrong. I will admit it if he wins the Seria A I'll apologize to everyone for being a pessimist about this coach.
But non of you run away into your closets if he fks up.
Deal?
I hope Im wrong. I will admit it if he wins the Seria A I'll apologize to everyone for being a pessimist about this coach.
But non of you run away into your closets if he fks up.
Deal?
Deal. Besides, i have no intention to "run away in my closet" if Allegri fails to do his job. I won't be the one responsible. I didn't even say he is a great coach. I just said that it's not common to sack a coach when his team is still alive and kicking in their two major competitions. Plus, i think his attitude so far is more than decent.
I don't know whether Allegri will fk it up or no. I hope not. Still, if he does, i will be more than happy to admit it. We are not prophets here. We express opinion.
:cheers:
Folks, please take a moment to think about this when you have the chance. All of us are in this for the decision:
http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26762
Thanks
I hope Im wrong. I will admit it if he wins the Seria A I'll apologize to everyone for being a pessimist about this coach.
But non of you run away into your closets if he fks up.
Deal?
don't worry, nobody is running away from anybody. I have been here for years, so feel free to shoot at me whenever you need. :beer::smileani:
I am sure that deep down you want to deliver that apology at the end of season. :3band:
OCmilano
16-01-2011, 16:35
don't worry, nobody is running away from anybody. I have been here for years, so feel free to shoot at me whenever you need. :beer::smileani:
I am sure that deep down you want to deliver that apology at the end of season. :3band:
Whats up Bud? How is everything?
I thought of you today while watching the lecce game.
Goooooooooooooooooo Allegri!!!!!!!!!!
Whats up Bud? How is everything?
I thought of you today while watching the lecce game.
Goooooooooooooooooo Allegri!!!!!!!!!!
what the **** is that? I thought of you too when watching that lecce game.
forza milan!!!
LOL. You guys didn't watch the game and were only thinking each other? :D
Well, I still disagree with the topic of this thread but if Allegri doesn't start thinking how to make a good Milan team (like before Pirlo played as LCM for the first time), his position COULD be in question. We were lucky against Cagliari since we just played bad game, similar performance against Udinese in San Siro and poor game against Lecce. There were injuries and suspensions but Milan should play better (and get more points than just lucky 4 points).
LOL. You guys didn't watch the game and were only thinking each other? :D
Well, I still disagree with the topic of this thread but if Allegri doesn't start thinking how to make a good Milan team (like before Pirlo played as LCM for the first time), his position COULD be in question. We were lucky against Cagliari since we just played bad game, similar performance against Udinese in San Siro and poor game against Lecce. There were injuries and suspensions but Milan should play better (and get more points than just lucky 4 points).
:grinser: I just knew that someone would come back to this thread. that's all.
Anyway, I think you pretty much said what I wanted to say. I agree that Allegri did a poor job in the past 4 games. In no way, 5 points out of 4 games would be acceptable for a team with ambition on Scudetto. But it is still premature to sack him.
I still insist that we come back to this thread until the end of season. everything will be so clear by then.:1five:
Allegri is fine, stop over reacting. Although January is a VERY important month, peaking later in the year is much important to winning the scudetto and progressing in the champions league. Our top players need to be fresh, rotation is a must in modern football im afraid..
arie mahendra
16-01-2011, 20:08
Don be over reacting, allegri done enough eventhough sometimes we questioning bout decision he was made.
we're still capolista anyway :v408::noevil2::noevil2:
Elmago99
16-01-2011, 22:50
I don't want to have to sack Allegri.. I hope we win Scudetto and Champions League...
But his mistakes are that of a sociopath, meaning he makes the same mistakes over and over and over and over.....not a good sign...
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 00:11
The sad thing is that Allegri might be glad that he got 1 pt instead of none. And thats probably the diff between a big time manage and a mid club manager.
ACMILAN1983
17-01-2011, 03:46
Allegri was clearly disappointed about the 2 points dropped in his post match conference.
What exactly is it that Allegri has done that has so clearly cost us points? His decision to take off Pato for Cassano made sense as Pato was poor in the match and Seedorf is better at holding possession (important at that point of the match). Our problem was a number of players (key players) badly underperformed in the match.
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 04:18
It is not just this Lecce game. I think thats the problem, holding onto the ball is great but scoring another one is better. Considering Lecce will continue to push for the equalizer, having Pato on the pitch provides an option for long and direct pass due to his speed and one on one skill.
I don't want to have to sack Allegri.. I hope we win Scudetto and Champions League...
But his mistakes are that of a sociopath, meaning he makes the same mistakes over and over and over and over.....not a good sign...
you obviously don't know what a sociopath is. People can repeat mistakes for several reasons, mostly its due to ignorance, stupidity or a very poor memory
ACMILAN1983
17-01-2011, 06:26
It is not just this Lecce game. I think thats the problem, holding onto the ball is great but scoring another one is better. Considering Lecce will continue to push for the equalizer, having Pato on the pitch provides an option for long and direct pass due to his speed and one on one skill.
The thing is bringing Cassano onto the field doesn't necessarily diminish our attacking potential in the match, while even before Pato went off we weren't holding the ball and giving away corners and so we needed to consolidate our position as the team winning, which we failed to do and were punished.
I'm not saying leaving Seedorf on was a good choice given how poor he was, but Allegri's decision from a pure tactical perspective was sensible. In hindsight (very easy to say), maybe bringing on Strasser for Seedorf would have helped as we could have had more stability, energy and pressure higher up the pitch, and potentially we could move to 2 lines of 4 defensively to better protect our lead. No doubt though this move would get even more criticism as we would be looking to protect a 1-0 lead against a minnow.
Jay Crisp
17-01-2011, 07:00
Sack Allegri come on....Seedorf clearly isn't up to it a full match I mean.He could play the 20 mins if we were stuck , but not a full 90 .He just cannot do what he want's his play and decision making is too slow , when he try's to do a fast move it always ends with a bad pass.Also Rino is not a 90 minute man he runs so much he's blown up by a half an hour , oddly tho Ambro seems well able to go for 90 mins and I don't mind him he is a bit reckless but thats his style.Boateng in for Rino and whoever for Seedorf or actually Flamini for Rino and Boateng for Seedorf.
His substitutions have got to made earlier even bringing on someone at 80 mins isn't long enough most of the time to have an impact.But there is nothing I can say about Seedorf and Bonera I don't want to sh1t all over them , but they have been bad lately real bad.
Elmago99
17-01-2011, 08:23
you obviously don't know what a sociopath is. People can repeat mistakes for several reasons, mostly its due to ignorance, stupidity or a very poor memory
Actually my definition is correct. I've heard it many times.
Elmago99
17-01-2011, 08:25
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=milannews.it
Juventus are willing to exchange Marco Motta for Daniele Bonera and Massimiliano Allegri said NO because Daniele Bonera can play all positions in defense... LOL...yeah so can my grandma but that doesn't mean she'll do a good job....
I really think this coach is used to Cagliari players, and doesn't realize we're MILAN
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 10:12
The thing is bringing Cassano onto the field doesn't necessarily diminish our attacking potential in the match, while even before Pato went off we weren't holding the ball and giving away corners and so we needed to consolidate our position as the team winning, which we failed to do and were punished.
I'm not saying leaving Seedorf on was a good choice given how poor he was, but Allegri's decision from a pure tactical perspective was sensible. In hindsight (very easy to say), maybe bringing on Strasser for Seedorf would have helped as we could have had more stability, energy and pressure higher up the pitch, and potentially we could move to 2 lines of 4 defensively to better protect our lead. No doubt though this move would get even more criticism as we would be looking to protect a 1-0 lead against a minnow.
Yes and no. As Seedorf seems to even have trouble walking on the pitch yesterday. Pato did not had a good game either but at that moment I would have trust Pato a lot more than Seedorf, as Pato is someone that can increase the lead with one long pass from T. Silva.
ACMILAN1983
17-01-2011, 11:20
Yes and no. As Seedorf seems to even have trouble walking on the pitch yesterday. Pato did not had a good game either but at that moment I would have trust Pato a lot more than Seedorf, as Pato is someone that can increase the lead with one long pass from T. Silva.
As I said, leaving Seedorf on was a tactically sensible move, but not necessarily the right one given his performance yesterday ;)
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 11:24
Thats the problem, tactical over gut instinct. For crying out loud, Allegri should take some risk instead of playing it safe. He did that with Bonera playing as CB and LB, really can't see why he would not play Cassano as ACM from the start. Or play Strasser or Merkel.
If Allegri has to change Pato, he can sub him with Cassano but still he should sub also Seedorf either with Robinho or Cassano. If he changed Seedorf with Casano, he could introduce Strasser to sub either Flamini or Gattuso (Flamin came from injury and should be tired in about 70 minute and so was Gattuso due to his age) to compensate the defensive ability Cassano can offer since he is forward (but I doubt Seedorf would significantly give better support defensively than Robinho and similar with offensive quality). Seedorf could control the play and so could Cassano. What we need is how to make the team play better, not worse. Seedorf being there offered nothing except that we play with 11 players.
We were just playing not good enough against club like Lecce (even it is away one) and Allegri still wanted to finish the game with such level of play with only a 1 goal lead from very unexpected goal)?
Having injuries a big blow from Milan but having Nesta, Flamini, Ambrosini and Ibrahimovic back should give a better if not much better performance from previous two games. 5 points from 3 pretty easy games (vs Udinese should tough game but we played in San Siro) are just not enough even considering the injuries/suspension we have. He should be very careful now. He has already loose many points in games that he could win (before vs Lecce, our direct opponents got similar bad result when we got same result but it won't be always the situation that happened just like in the week we played vs Lecce when other direct opponents won their games).
I don't Milan to sack him now but small mistakes could be important influencing factor for Scudetto.
ACMILAN1983
17-01-2011, 12:13
Thats the problem, tactical over gut instinct. For crying out loud, Allegri should take some risk instead of playing it safe. He did that with Bonera playing as CB and LB, really can't see why he would not play Cassano as ACM from the start. Or play Strasser or Merkel.
Most Italian managers will favour the tactical decisions, even if at times it seems baffling. I wouldn't call Bonera a tactical choice though, I really don't understand his reasoning there other than he probably feels there are no better options.
Cassano isn't fit to play from the start, and therefore is being used as an impact sub for now(to great effect too). In this particular match, I think Allegri could have done something about Seedorf, but I'm merely saying I feel he tried to make the right choice which was sensible and not one I'd necessarily argue with in the situation.
Allegri isn't our only problem (I'd argue he plays a minimal part atm) and the reason we drew. Why were Nesta, Seedorf, Flamini, Pato and to some extent Ambro all so bad? More importantly, when taking the lead it's natural to consolidate the lead by maintaining control in the match. However, I was shocked at the number of times our midfield was caught out of position with Lecce attacking. After scoring, I really don't see why someone like Rino is pushing forward so much when he's a destroyer.
We need to regain our discipline on the pitch from next week onwards. Our lack of defensive discipline of late is what has hurt us and this is key to our season successes so far. When we regain this element of our game, our confidence will automatically rise again.
Elmago99
17-01-2011, 14:27
Max Allegri is not the coach I thought he was. He's seen as attacking, high pressure and playing high up the field, but I don't see that. If he wanted to do that, and his players refuse to, they should be SUBBED immediately.
Seedorf playing 90 mins over and over is mind-boggling. If Merkel, Strasser or anyone else isn't better than Seedorf at this point, they should be Sold. I hate to be this harsh, but these mistakes may end up costing us the Scudetto, and I hope it doesnt, but I just don't understand some of the moves or lack of moves that Allegri makes.
I agree with most, Strasser for Flamini, Cassano for Seedorf:
-------Ibra-----Pato---------
----------Cassano---------
Strasser----------Gattuso
---------Ambrosini-----------
I know Pato did not do very well, but that's also because Seedorf gives ZERO distribution. I cannot remember one good pass, and like someone else on the forum said, Pato, Abate, Ibra were actually AVOIDING passing to Seedorf, as if it's a 10 year old on the field...
ZvonimirBoban
17-01-2011, 17:56
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=milannews.it
Juventus are willing to exchange Marco Motta for Daniele Bonera and Massimiliano Allegri said NO because Daniele Bonera can play all positions in defense... LOL...yeah so can my grandma but that doesn't mean she'll do a good job....
I really think this coach is used to Cagliari players, and doesn't realize we're MILAN
Bull$hit. Juve loaned Motta from Udinese, they had no rights to offer him for an exchange, let alone by making people question their sanity by requesting him swapped with Bonera.
kastriot
18-01-2011, 03:19
and like someone else on the forum said, Pato, Abate, Ibra were actually AVOIDING passing to Seedorf, as if it's a 10 year old on the field...
It was me :D , and honestly I`m kinda confused how nobody is discussing that which is a major issue for a trequartista..and I`m even more intrigued how Allegri did not react to that,cuz as much as Seedorf deserves to be avoided, you can not do that, and i`m quit sure Alegri did not give such an order...as a result he shoould have reacted in time.
To have a glimpse of what I`m sayng...there was a moment in the second half when Cassano on the left had the ball....and seedorf on the other flank on the offside line was dead free for like 10 seconds, and he was shouting a screaming for the ball, but cassano opted to play individually and lost the ball even though he saw seedorf and should have crossed to him.
Gabriel489
18-01-2011, 04:33
Can we all stop the discussing about Stopdorf from now on, he is pure crap and Allegri's decision to keep playing him was dead wrong nomatter how you try to put it.
kastriot
18-01-2011, 05:13
Can we all stop the discussing about Stopdorf from now on, he is pure crap and Allegri's decision to keep playing him was dead wrong nomatter how you try to put it.
Thats harsh mate, forums rules allow every members to discuss whatever they feel is important or related to to the subject/topic whenever they want. :1whis:
You don`t want to be the first to violate the freedom of speech :D
Gabriel489
18-01-2011, 07:03
Sorry Mod, did not wish to get ban. Lets talk more about Stopdorf then, hahaha
We have had a bad start of year, but we're still leaders of Serie A despite that with a 4 point margin (potentially 3 points over Inter if they win their 2 games).
The team will improve for sure, I'm quite sure our winter preparation could be the cause of our bad start of January, combined with the several missing players in midfield (as physically, we didn't seem as good as before the holidays when we called our midfield a muscled one - our formation is GK-defence-muscle-fantasy, nowadays, we lack the muscles) ... We drop points, but contrarly to the previous years, we can drop points, we're 1st !!
ACMILAN1983
18-01-2011, 09:23
With a clean sheet or two and some continuity within the side (as Geo said, we're missing many key attributes in midfield), I'm sure we'll see a return to form. We're in a delicate moment, but we're not in some sort of crisis as some might suggest.
Sacchi also commented Inter a technically a stronger squad than Milan, which I think is a fair comment. Our attack is formidable, but we are definitely a still a work in progress.
OCmilano
18-01-2011, 10:20
This crisis talk is a little rubbish I think. We had good enough players on the pitch and on the bench to win these games.
If inter are playing without julio, sneijder, samuel, etc and winning why shouldnt we?
Our team this year especially should be spanking these second half sides by a couple goals.
This crisis talk is a little rubbish I think. We had good enough players on the pitch and on the bench to win these games.
If inter are playing without julio, sneijder, samuel, etc and winning why shouldnt we?
Our team this year especially should be spanking these second half sides by a couple goals.
With "if"s, we could make the world again (it's a French expression) ...
What I mean is that if that worked this way "the team with the best players wins", then Chelsea wouldn't struggle in England, etc ... It's sports, and by definition, it's unpredictable, the best doesn't always win, hopefully (it would be boring) !!
OCmilano
26-01-2011, 15:56
:bday:With "if"s, we could make the world again (it's a French expression) ...
What I mean is that if that worked this way "the team with the best players wins", then Chelsea wouldn't struggle in England, etc ... It's sports, and by definition, it's unpredictable, the best doesn't always win, hopefully (it would be boring) !!
Geo thats my point. We ourselves are using IF's. If pato is healthy, if r70 scores, if nesta isnt injured.
But Im saying with all these things that are going bad we should be beating more then half the teams in the seria a.
Ohhh by the way Im happy that Allegri is benching Bonera and Seedorf. I think this guy wants to win me over.
:bday:
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.