View Full Version : Just so you know
EDIT: This thread is copied form a conversation in the moderator's haven forum. It is NOT about asking for contributions, because that hasn't always worked and that's ok, really is. Ads have paid for some of the costs and contributions too but it goes beyond that because it takes time too.
I will add a poll to this thread so if you don't feel like replying at least vote. Thanks
I have been thinking and communicating with Debs about the future of the site.
I know we have done this kind of thing before but thinking about it again is not a bad idea.
We want to try to keep the site alive forever, we hope to.
I will post more in the coming weeks, in the meanwhile if anybody reading this has any thoughts please reply :)
What's up reza? is it about financial issue?
Mostly yes. It's not always easy time wise either.
One of the ideas is to turn the forum into a blog like system where any of us can post articles and every one can comment.
The difference is that a blog like site running WordPress or similar is cheaper to run and host (less database and server intensive, etc.) and takes less time to manage too (backup, update, etc.)
Update:
I am leaning towards moving the site to a WordPress/bbpress or WordPress/buddypress combo. bbpress and buddypress are lightweight forums similar to vBulletin but less features.
The thing is that it is not likely possible to transfer posts and username/passwords from this vBulletin to bbpress (or buddypress). So we may end up leaving this forum as an archive and starting kind of new on a bbpress (or buddypress) forum.
How many people will 're-register' is going to be the big question. Don't want to lose even more active users. Another update soon and then I will post about it publicly.
For those interested, these are the software I am talking about, these are easier and cheaper to manage than what we have now:
http://wordpress.org/
http://bbpress.org/
http://buddypress.org/
Reza,
Will have to see what it will actually look like to make a decision.
Regarding the transition: It might be better to have a 'beta' so that people can try out, and then announce a day when this forum will no longer become active. In this way, people will have the opportunity to experience the new website and get used to it.
Another way to ensure that we don't lose people is to help THEM set up an account: we can ask people to do it early and I'm happy to take the initiative to go through the pain. Two reasons behind it:
1. Doing so makes it easier for people to switch, obviously.
2. Doing so shows that we APPRECIATE these members, and we know that people tend to reciprocate when they are 'helped'.
Of course, it takes time, and so it makes sense to do it early. Note, however, that this method won't work if it requires email activation.
***
Let's talk more about strategies to make the transition from MM to bbpress etc. the easiest. I think we still want to make this feel like a 'home'. That's key. Just a blog may not be enough because it sometimes make me feel like I'm not at 'home' anymore (which is my initial objection to the idea - but of course, if money is always a concern, then let's make it happen and make it good).
-j
Thanks for replying Jeff.
I will have something that gives a good idea of how it looks like soon. Then later we can have a period where this forum is running and that one is running too, to give people an idea of how it is. Help them as much as we can. Before all that I will post publicly explaining what I have said here.
There will be a forum, not just a blog, but the forum may not have any way of transferring accounts or posts. So this forum can stay for a while after, but closed/read only. That is basically the problem and we may have to find ways and also hope everybody moves to the new setup.
I don't really know the MilanMania website, only the forum, but maybe, to give a new life to the whole website (site + forum), you could use:
- Wordpress or Joomla, linking the first page to the RSS of the best Milan related websites (TMW, Milan News, others ?) and maybe making a category about Serie A/CL (with the RSS too) ... that would encourage to connect on the website and not only on the forum, because all news would be written there, without having to go on other websites. Until now, this idea doesn't change anything, but maybe adding one advert popup (just one, at the first visit of the day) could already help.
- PHPbb for the forum, to be able to keep the look of this forum, with the same kind of options but probably "light-er" than Vbulletin ...
Don't know the situation in other countries and I'm not aware of the new hosts in France, but there is maybe a way to find a free host or really not expensive one, I know it was possible in the past in France, I'll check.
PS: With a new forum, to be sure to have some of the members (the ones who hesitate to register again) coming, just create the most popular topics of the current forum ? That will probably bring some people there ...
I don't really know the MilanMania website, only the forum, but maybe, to give a new life to the whole website (site + forum), you could use:
- Wordpress or Joomla, linking the first page to the RSS of the best Milan related websites (TMW, Milan News, others ?) and maybe making a category about Serie A/CL (with the RSS too) ... that would encourage to connect on the website and not only on the forum, because all news would be written there, without having to go on other websites. Until now, this idea doesn't change anything, but maybe adding one advert popup (just one, at the first visit of the day) could already help.
That is basically what I am thinking, WordPress is my preference because I have lots of experience with it. It will give the 'front page' of the site a boost too as you say
- PHPbb for the forum, to be able to keep the look of this forum, with the same kind of options but probably "light-er" than Vbulletin ...
Don't know the situation in other countries and I'm not aware of the new hosts in France, but there is maybe a way to find a free host or really not expensive one, I know it was possible in the past in France, I'll check.
phpBB won't be much better than vBulletin, at least with vBulletin we have a more robust forum.
Less expensive or free forums (Yes they exist, I know a few and I am sure you can find even more) usually make for more down time and less power to do things like upload attachments for example.
In most cases we can't transfer our users/posts from here to them, but my plan almost certainly has that same problem too that's why I put the second option in the poll.
PS: With a new forum, to be sure to have some of the members (the ones who hesitate to register again) coming, just create the most popular topics of the current forum ? That will probably bring some people there ...
If I can't transfer posts and users automatically I will re-create some manually.
Thanks for posting Geo, please reply if anything else comes to mind.
Hope more people read, vote and post too.
Reza, to be honest, i'm not that good at this stuff, but as long as it is something simple and clear like this site, I'll sure be joining there as well :)
Oh and thx for your efforts mate and anyone else involved :)
Reza, to be honest, i'm not that good at this stuff, but as long as it is something simple and clear like this site, I'll sure be joining there as well :)
Oh and thx for your efforts mate and anyone else involved :)
Thank you :) Will try to do something that works well and is simple
Once there's a forum with the MilanMania name and the same people, I'll definitely be joining without a second's hesitation so count me in.
Once there's a forum with the MilanMania name and the same people, I'll definitely be joining without a second's hesitation so count me in.
Thank you.
Once there's a forum with the MilanMania name and the same people, I'll definitely be joining without a second's hesitation so count me in.
Hell yes....
Hell yes....
Thanks Sputnik :)
Seems like most people are OK with the idea, but let's keep getting more feedback from our members.
So, people, more thought?!
Jay Crisp
21-12-2010, 12:11
Same site basically and more importantly same people and Im in.
Sorry if this has been discussed. Will be the new website from MM a forum? I mean like this forum, we can post and reply post? Or will it be another format? Is there any sample of future format of MM website (what does it look like)? Thanks.
About if we have to register again if the website is changed, I will register since the environment in MM that always attracts me here to come.
I see no problem in the change, just if we stay together as that is the main asset of MM
Same site basically and more importantly same people and Im in.
Thank you.
Sorry if this has been discussed. Will be the new website from MM a forum? I mean like this forum, we can post and reply post? Or will it be another format? Is there any sample of future format of MM website (what does it look like)? Thanks.
About if we have to register again if the website is changed, I will register since the environment in MM that always attracts me here to come.
Thank you. There will be a forum with post and reply. Some feature will be missing, I will try to find a solution that is still good but a basic forum will exist at least. Sample soon.
I see no problem in the change, just if we stay together as that is the main asset of MM
Thank you.
Wish I had made the poll public to see who is the person who made the third choice :D Actually its not funny, I hope to find a solution that is good for all :)
Wish I had made the poll public to see who is the person who made the third choice :D Actually its not funny, I hope to find a solution that is good for all :)
so even you can't see who voted for which?
so even you can't see who voted for which?
I can. By logging in to the admin control panel it is possible to check.
Perhaps it doesn't need clarification but just in case...
This forum will remain as an archive and accessible to view. So if we can't transfer posts, registrations and other stuff I will keep this forum here for a while, closed to new posts but open to reading.
:) I don't think you should try to please everyone. It is very difficult if possible at all to do that. Fans come and go all the time, losing some isn't the end of world.
Hasan Rossonero
21-12-2010, 15:33
I have actually been coming to this site since 2002 (I joined in 2004 though). I will stay no matter what.
Keep up the good work.
Hasan - saw your signautre, and he just made another sensational claim:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2010/12/21/2271054/lionel-messi-is-not-good-enough-for-stoke-city-barcelona
***
Reza, anything I can help as far as the sample forum/blog is concerned?
j
Thanks Hasan and Xudong.
Thanks Jeff, help would be appreciated I will let you know soon
Elmago99
21-12-2010, 16:26
I'm sorry but I'm a little lost here. What is exactly the issue? If the site changes to the point where it's very different from now, I'll probably not use it. For instance, I do not like the Red & Black forum....
I've only been on this site since this past summer, and love it. If financially this site cannot stay up, I certainly understand as the world is in a global depression. However, I'm not fully comprehending what the changes are as I'm not a computer expert.....
I'm sorry but I'm a little lost here. What is exactly the issue? If the site changes to the point where it's very different from now, I'll probably not use it. For instance, I do not like the Red & Black forum....
I've only been on this site since this past summer, and love it. If financially this site cannot stay up, I certainly understand as the world is in a global depression. However, I'm not fully comprehending what the changes are as I'm not a computer expert.....
What don't you like about the Red & Black forum? Out of curiosity, may be to our benefit moving forward here on MM, I would be interested to hear what you think doesn't work there (PM me if you don't want to post publicly)
As far as our future goes:
Because of both financial reasons and (perhaps less so) time reasons I am looking to make the site run cheaper and be easier to manage. One of the things that came to my mind was to turn MM into a WordPress (+ bbpress forum or similar forum) site. Why?
WordPress (+ bbpress forum or similar forum) can run on cheaper server and are easier to manage because of the tools that come with them. The question then becomes how much different will MM be using bbpress or similar forum and if this change will be ok or accepted by users like you. All other forums will be different, from the vBulletin we are using now, but the question is by how much. To be honest my 'first consideration', bbpress, will be very different. That is why I am hesitating to jump straight into bbpress but I may have to eventually.
Hope this makes some sense, please let me know if it doesn't
abbeyleemaniac
21-12-2010, 17:28
I will stay on MM no matter what
Samaldinho
21-12-2010, 17:51
I have been on this site for years, and I was personal friends with two hardcore members, and I honestly have loved Milan Mania.
I guess my question is, is it more money or time? I mean, I guess we all take advantage of the hard work that is put in, but, when it comes to money, would donations help?
I just don't want to lose the dynamic, and I, like others, prefer this place to other forums.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'd be willing to help out financially, if that's what's needed.
Thanks abbeyleemaniac and Samaldinho
Samaldinho, it is more financial than time but time too. Previous attempts to have contributions have been less than successful, to make the financial thing work it needs to be long term commitments (like 2 years or more) I don't want to keep asking for contributions every other month or something like that. In the past we have had some very kind contributors but not all the time. I am not totally opposed to the idea but I don't think I should ask again especially since it seems possible to do something for less money.
Samaldinho and others, please let me know what you are thinking, all feedback is important.
I will make a sample forum very soon to give you all an idea of what I am thinking, but there is still time to talk here, so please keep posting
My two cents. I've been a mod on a forum and we too faced similar problem in the past. Financial difficulties forced us to change the domain name. There was some transitional phase where everytime you type the old URL you'll be redirected to the new one, but after that, even with all registration, posts, etc were carried over to the new forum and nothing much changed except the name and background color, things are not just the same and we basically must start everything from scratch again. Literally and metaphorically speaking.
Oh, and one more thing, I too will stay on. It'll take some time to get used to the new format whatever it is and some might not re-join but as someone said before you can't satisfy everybody. We'll add more members after winning the serie A come next May :3band:
Thanks Nalx, I know what you mean about changes being a risk.
Elmago99
21-12-2010, 23:44
If you asked for $40-50 donations, and 10-20 members gave it, how long would that keep the site as is for?
I'd certainly be willing to help out...if others are too and will save the site for a year or two...
However, if the site changes, I'll definitely stay as a member....
I hope the forum section works well... and people can post as easy as now...
I like the setup of the forum.. the way each game is discussed,,and the conversations flow from one game to the next... the mercato sections, the player sections..
The red and black forum doesn't have a general mercato thread...it talks about specific players... some good conversations have started in the mercato thread..which wouldn't start in threads on the red and black forum..
Besides that I can't talk too bad about the other forums.. this is the first i stumbled upon in July of this year... and have become rather obsessed..the news has always been very accurate, and the analysis has been great.. it's increased my interest in Milan...
Thanks for the good work to Moderators/Administrators...
Happy Holidays to everyone..
Forza Milan :5ok:
Taking average of that, 15 x $45 should be good for around 2 years. Ads and admins paying for the rest. There are some questions about time and handling forum infrastructure that remain but those are not as decisive.
As far as simple posting and replying any new set up will be good too. Its what other features that may be missing. It has been suggested and I will have a sample forum soon to give an idea of what things may look like.
Members, threads and flow I hope continue unchanged no matter what happens.
Happy Holidays and thanks Elmago99
Folks - it's absolutely delightful to see so many fans of MM here. It makes me feel like all the hard work that reza et al. put forth has not been wasted. So, let me just say a big thank you to everyone!
Folks - it's absolutely delightful to see so many fans of MM here. It makes me feel like all the hard work that reza et al. put forth has not been wasted. So, let me just say a big thank you to everyone!
Yes, big thanks to all.
I've been around MM since it's first year of operation if my memory serves me right, both as an active poster or an inactive reader.
My thoughts: the (active) members made this place flourish but it's the admins that keep it alive. It takes time and money. Still, while these things are essential, this forum would be long dead and buried if it wasn't for the love admins and members alike, show for AC Milan.
It's the passion for Milan and the joy of football we are talking about. So, whatever happens to MM, i will follow. New look and design, .wordpress or .analblog? I say bring it on, if there is no other solution.
In case a donation formula will be put on the table, i am willing to send 40e or 50e or something like that. I am not Silvio but what the hell, 45e is what i might spend for Belgian beer on an afternoon.
Now that i think of it, its the place i spent one third of my life reading and posting. So far. I know i get orgasmic for the red and black shirt and i know most of you do too. Besides, in my mind, in a strange way, i have really attached MM to my favorite team a long time ago and I would hate to see this place die.
Its a place i love. :5schal::cheers:
Kaka1899
22-12-2010, 10:27
No MM no Party. as long there is a MM, i will be there.
Thank you for the support Sputnik and Kaka1899.
If anybody has thoughts on this and revisiting the donation idea please post. In the coming days I will be working on getting the sample forum up.
I will only stay if you don't allow mrki to register on the new system. :5drunk:
Just kidding... :D
Not like am going to stop visiting or anything but, just out of curiousity, what features would be missing?
p.s.
In theory, I welcome the donation idea. In practice however.... The simple reason is that Nigeria is essentially a cash-based soceity so it's remarkably difficult to do online transactions as the facilities for them are almost non-existent.
Thanks shegs, about features...gone would be things like visitor messages and friends in your profile, and other things that are 'extra' features on this vbulletin for sure are gone.
I am working on minimizing the feature differences. Soon I will be able to tell more and show a sample.
count me in
Thanks for the support :)
I've been around MM since it's first year of operation if my memory serves me right, both as an active poster or an inactive reader.
My thoughts: the (active) members made this place flourish but it's the admins that keep it alive. It takes time and money. Still, while these things are essential, this forum would be long dead and buried if it wasn't for the love admins and members alike, show for AC Milan.
It's the passion for Milan and the joy of football we are talking about. So, whatever happens to MM, i will follow. New look and design, .wordpress or .analblog? I say bring it on, if there is no other solution.
In case a donation formula will be put on the table, i am willing to send 40e or 50e or something like that. I am not Silvio but what the hell, 45e is what i might spend for Belgian beer on an afternoon.
Now that i think of it, its the place i spent one third of my life reading and posting. So far. I know i get orgasmic for the red and black shirt and i know most of you do too. Besides, in my mind, in a strange way, i have really attached MM to my favorite team a long time ago and I would hate to see this place die.
Its a place i love. :5schal::cheers:
Couldn't express this better myself.
i've been in this forums for quite awhile, although i dun post much, i do really enjoy reading the debates, updates and whatever that has got to do with Milan being posted by MAJORITY of the users here. I seldom post mainly coz my fingers are too darn lazy to key in the words to log in ( unless i feel the urge to voice my opinion ).
Even an introvert like me cant help but to open up when it comes to Our Beloved Milan at times even if out of character.
Back on topic, i would stay even if the format was changed but it would be nice if the registrations were carried over coz i really hate filling up pages time and again. Actually, this is my last forums that im actively reading up on coz i juz love the mature crowd in this group ( there are some incessantly childish ones though :x )
Thank you for the support goose and SkyEdge.
SkyEdge, believe me I understand how you feel. In my opinion, registration is very easy. My bigger worry is the posts. As of now it seems it's not possible to move them which means this forum will remain as an archive after moving.
Getting closer to having a sample forum to show you all.
kastriot
26-12-2010, 18:26
I can not over-stress how vital some people have been in maintaining this site..as off late Reza has kept this site alive by himself, and let`s do everything in our power to help him make this place last.
Lately we have had considerable number of new members who are really active. And maybe a new initiative for cash donation,wouldn`t be a bad idea.
If you have already decided to make the necessary changes in order to make it cost effective, let`s do it. However I would be very detailed and specific about the changes, so we inform correctly as much members as we can,in order not to lose membership.
Count me in for absolutely anything, and let me how can I be of any help.
guys it is very important to spread the word, cuz there are some posters who due to other obligations are inactive in some periods of the year, but who are important to this forum,if you are in contact with them, let them know.
Also lets not leave the MIlanMania international unattended.I have noticed some members are much more active in their respective international threads due to the language limitation.
kastriot brings up very important points.
The site is the work of many. From the early days, Jan the original owner was in some ways a pioneer. A forum like this in 1999 was something. Debs who took over when Jan had to leave. Numerous mods, active, fun, good members. I have tried to keep it going too.
To be honest I see some good features in other forums (yes even an Inter forum, but I went there only to see what they are saying about us :D ) that I would love to be able to put here and make the forum more fun and attractive, this hasn't always been possible and I take some, if not most, of the blame/responsibility for it.
I am open to another donation drive, but like posted earlier in this thread (see my and Elmago99's posts earlier) it is much much easier if it's a long term thing. I am working on the cost effective thing but it is not too late and the Contributors forum is open.
Last week I posted a link to this thread in a couple of the busy International threads, but yes we have work to do to let everybody know...now, before and if/when we change.
I am open to hearing ideas, be they about contributions or not. Thanks for reading and helping.
kastriot, I will ask for help testing and may be other things, thank you.
edysupriadi
27-12-2010, 00:30
though I may not appear/post so oftenly in other discussions, together w/ few other members,we keep the Indonesian discussions alive (international thread) :)
so, I still would like to continue to do so , count me in ! :cheers:
I don't know if this thread is also a place to discuss current features available in current website and future one. Me personally doesn't really care about thing that the posts might not be transfered. As long as the thread can be opened and read, it is more than enough. I don't see any necessity of transferring the post since we can open same thread in the new website.
What I like from some features is like that in this website number of posts are not shown. This makes new user treated like other users regarding the post the user made (in many forums there are level that show different class of users that make new users as newbie and people who need to learn a lot and are often treated unfairly). What makes the new and old users different in this forum is only the time when they joined the forum and it is fair.
Other thing that I like is the reputation feature used very wisely. A good-great post (either helpful or nice to read) is awarded with good reputation, what the reputation should be used to. In many forums this reputation is used just to collect so many reputations without making good-great posts. So, in that case the reputation feature is useless.
What I don't like is that, like in other forums, we have to spread the reputation to other members before giving it again to the same person. Well, actually it's very normal that we have to spread it to certain number of users before giving it again to certain user. The problem is that we don't have many active posts :D, so me personally always find the same persons who made good-great post (and I can only give him one reputation because I have to spread it first if I want to give him again for his new good-great post). So, the idea of 'like' feature like Jeff stated is very good IMO since that feature can be done by users for every posts (no need to spread 'like' to others before giving again to certain person).
though I may not appear/post so oftenly in other discussions, together w/ few other members,we keep the Indonesian discussions alive (international thread) :)
so, I still would like to continue to do so , count me in ! :cheers:
Thank you :)
I don't know if this thread is also a place to discuss current features available in current website and future one. Me personally doesn't really care about thing that the posts might not be transfered. As long as the thread can be opened and read, it is more than enough. I don't see any necessity of transferring the post since we can open same thread in the new website.
What I like from some features is like that in this website number of posts are not shown. This makes new user treated like other users regarding the post the user made (in many forums there are level that show different class of users that make new users as newbie and people who need to learn a lot and are often treated unfairly). What makes the new and old users different in this forum is only the time when they joined the forum and it is fair.
No matter what happens I will hide the post count
Other thing that I like is the reputation feature used very wisely. A good-great post (either helpful or nice to read) is awarded with good reputation, what the reputation should be used to. In many forums this reputation is used just to collect so many reputations without making good-great posts. So, in that case the reputation feature is useless.
What I don't like is that, like in other forums, we have to spread the reputation to other members before giving it again to the same person. Well, actually it's very normal that we have to spread it to certain number of users before giving it again to certain user. The problem is that we don't have many active posts :D, so me personally always find the same persons who made good-great post (and I can only give him one reputation because I have to spread it first if I want to give him again for his new good-great post). So, the idea of 'like' feature like Jeff stated is very good IMO since that feature can be done by users for every posts (no need to spread 'like' to others before giving again to certain person).
Reputation or like feature may be possible and if so I will tweak it so it is more like you describe.
Thanks for posting.
In the next few days I will ask a few to take a look at the test site, register and play around a bit.
Warro Bantan
03-01-2011, 02:21
I'm in like Flynn!
The only constant in life, is change....so I'm w/ u once there is a site....
Just sent Jeff and kastriot the link to the test site to look around, if anybody else has 10 minutes to spare it would be cool too.
Just sent Jeff and kastriot the link to the test site to look around, if anybody else has 10 minutes to spare it would be cool too.
I don't think fellow members here are sent the website link, Reza...
kastriot
11-01-2011, 08:45
Reza,
IS the MMTEST public, because I saw Sputnik posting there...but haven`t seen you posting the link on the site???? Or its by PM?
If its public it `ll be good to post it on the other threads to generate some valid opinions,suggestions??
Jeff, I haven't made it public yet
kastriot, No it's not public, I gave Sputnik the link via PM
I wanted more to test and look but I didn't want to make it public, may be I should? I don't want everybody thinking the domain is changing, that's just a test site
Jeff, I haven't made it public yet
kastriot, No it's not public, I gave Sputnik the link via PM
I wanted more to test and look but I didn't want to make it public, may be I should? I don't want everybody thinking the domain is changing, that's just a test site
Why don't we do it like gmail: first by PM,later open to public once we get more feedback?
Yes agreed. That was the reason I asked earlier if there is anybody else who wants to test.
I will post in the mercato thread asking for testers.
hi Reza,
sure i will test, just tell me how :)
hi Reza,
sure i will test, just tell me how :)
Thanks, PM sent
Siregar please read my reply PM, thanks
If you need more testers, just send me link
Small update:
Receiving some feedback on the test site and trying to do as many of the suggestions as possible.
I still think the biggest change will be that user names and posts will only stay here (like an archive) and NOT imported into the new place. Haven't found a way to do that, especially for posts.
Won't be long before we make the move. I will keep trying to make the new place as good as possible.
By the way:
The chat room will continue to exist like now
MM is the only football forum that I can really spend time with, so if you still need someone to test the new "format", you can count me in. :D
I will post again closer to the time it's happening...it may happen next week or may be the week after
When we change to the new forum the site will be unavailable to you for anything from an hour to 24 hours or (in some hopefully very rare cases) more. Some of it is due to the change of forum and the set up that I need to finish but it is also partly out of my hands and will depend on your internet provider.
I will post here again, post a note on the top of forum pages here and if necessary also do updates on
The milanmania facebook group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=394233542852#!/group.php?gid=394233542852&v=wall
milanmania on twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/milanmania
(you don't need to sign up to read twitter or facebook)
I am looking for at least 10 people to put new pages to a 'load' test at the same time. Since it needs to be at the same time I am thinking may be I can ask in the chat (during the game at half time?) on Sunday.
What needs to be done is 10 or more people click on a few links at same time and see if the pages load for them or not. I need to look how it can withstand traffic.
Good idea, reza. If I'm in the chatroom, I'll help out.
Some time soon (may be 12, 24 or 36 hours from the time of this post) I will do some work on the site so it will unavailable for hopefully a short time.
Depending on how it goes AND your internet provider it could be a very few hours or more.
I am also adding a notice on top of the forum pages.
Thanks for your understanding, hopefully we can do as well or even better in the coming months and years.
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