zlatanov

zlatanov · 01-06-2006, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Zlatanov, you can't possibly put it this way.
As Giovanni told me once: You're taking the last 10 years because it suits you in this case.
Take the last 20 years , since Berlusconi is Milan's owner and you'll get different picture.

Well, Milan is arguably the best team in Italy. But don't you think people outside this forum don't share your opinion. IMO, both clubs were at the same level. And even players such as Nesta, Gattuso, Gilardino and il capitano Maldini publicly said that Juventus deserved the tittle because they were the best this year.
Why did Milan finish 2nd in last 2 years ?
if you're saying that Milan had no use of fixing, because they ended up as second, then this can be concidered as truth, if you don't follow Calcio. But if we know that both teams were equal on points last year and that 1 single match between them decided the tittle, And also , only 3 points separated both teams this year, then i can't say that Juve was doing dirty job while Milan was clean. Eather both are clean, eather both dirty.
It was a close race both years, and only very small details, better luck, or even playing little more dirty than the opponents gave Juve the tittles, and not Milan.
I remind you: Meani is caught asking for referees and getting them.Moggi was caught for the same thing also. It's all clear here - both teams dirty. 2 teams can't win 1 tittle. This time it happened Moggi to be more "succesful" than his Milan klon.
But Moggi was Juve's general director and he was caught, while Milan directors were not caught, but it was Meani who was caught helping Milan.

But IMO, even if it was all clean, and no fixing was involved, it would have been Milan vs Juve for the tittle, and the chances for Juve winning both Scudettos would be still big.
That's why i say: Juve to Serie B, Milan -12 points deduction, and Juve's tittles not vindicated but given to the best placed clean team...in this case Inter

Wow, you couldn't have said this...but you did. Weren't you reading in last days Zlat ?

To remind you :

"I want Ayroldi and Stagnoli as linesmen" ---- he got them
" i want Puglisi as linesmen: ------- he got him (and then we have conversation between Meani and Puglisi where Puglisi says "we must beat this Interistas" ..... the ref Meani asked for in Chievo match is a Milanista...suprise, suprise)

This is a FACT, isn't it ? or it's also story and theory ?

I mean, i read Moggi's transcripts ( where he didn't ask for refs) and i was 100% sure he was cheating and controlling refs, but you read Meani transcripts and you still believe nothing happened, and Milan was only a victim !
Our conversation is useless if you can't see what was happening in Calcio, the complete picture !

The Milan of Sacchi and Capello was the best team not only in Italy but in the world overall and dominated football for a decade. There is hardly anyone surprised by the fact that that super-team won so many titles as they were fully deserved ... the team was at least a level or 2 above it's closest competitors and that was thanks to the fact that Silvio was the "godfather" of what Roman Abramovich is trying to do today - pur money, lots of it, into a team and simply "buy" its dominance of world football.
This has hardly been the case with Juve over half of the 10 years in question, especially the last 2 seasons. And while Milan's wins back then were simply taken for granted due to the team's stunning superiority over others, Juve's recent success has puzzled not one or two people with all the controversial calls they've got. All in all, it's been clear as day all along that there was something fishy about all the titles, the one thing that was missing was the proof/evidence for it.

you missed one possibility - one team, the better one is clean, and the only way for the inferior team to win the title is to get dirty. makes a lot of sense, don;t you think? Given how better Milan have been recently, especially the previous season, the only way for Juve to overcome Milan is by cheating. And the reason why both teams were so close together - at 3 pts or less than that - was simply because Milan was just too good and won lots and lots of points, while Juve got suspicious calls, one after the other, in order to keep them equal to Milan. Don't you remember the final 1/3 of the campionatto last year? The refs did the impossible to keep Juve close to Milan and all Juve had to do is wait for Milan to make a wrong step and voila - Juve jumps up ahead of them. Pretty foolproof scenario, I think given that Milan were torn in 2 between Serie A and CL till the very end of the season.

All those "quotes" that you gave me are very different in different newspapers. From what the prosecutrs say, hoiwever, Milan seems to have tried to limit the damage from Juve's powergames rather than influence the title race, Juve-style. there was even talk of galliani threathening Moggi and his buddies with some "dossier" if they don't stop manipulating the calcio.
The one thing that could damage us are those meani calls asking for refs, but refs that were not influenced by Juve (like the linesmen in the Sienna-Milan game). And all those quotes appear in very different form depending on the nespaper the published them - in Torin's TuttoSport, Milan appears to be even more involved than Juve themsleves, you can check it out yourself.
What's important is what the prosecutors have and those i hope are the original taps, not some journalist's interpretation.
it's normal to assume that if the calcio was dirty then there is no way of Milan being clean, but again these are mostly assumptions. that's why I aksed to base you rationale on facts and those facts tell that Milan must be the dumbest cheaters ever if they are indeed involved in all this insanity Italian football is going through. And please don't mention titles won by Milan 20 years ago when the team was in a league of its own and juve weren't even among our competitos for the scudetto - Inter, Napoli, Samp were so much better back then, so one could hardly "suspect" some long-term pact between Juve and Milan to share scudetto's over a 20 year term or whatever theories I read recently here.