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Originally Posted by Jim_UK
How England played as a team is a little irrelevant Torres' performance. He was up against an inform Woodgate and Ferdinand and beat them easily enough. So yes, England were awful but that doesn't really effect the individual battles he had with those two defenders as both of them had reasonably decent games. It was as an attacking force that England failed miserably.
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Oh, come on Jim, don't say you believe the above is true ... attack and midfield are the very first lines of defense and that was non-existent yesterday for the English NT, in the second half that is. You can have the best defenders around but if your midfield lets them exposed and do all the work, it's only a question of time before they get tired and start conceding even in individual battles.
Plus, Torres came in the scond half when England's defenders and midfielders were already tired, let's leave most of them lacking motivation aside
, while he was fresh like a green apple and had his place in NT to play for.
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Also you mention playing/fighting for his place was a reason for his energy and enthusiasm. That would surely come into play at Milan? At Atletico, as i've said before, he's their icon and almost guaranteed a position so fighting for his place is something he might not have done too much of in the past. Here it would be different, here there would be a greater probability of him losing his place if he didn't perform, thus increasing his motivation to play well and thus increasing the kind of performances we all want to see.
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that's as stretchy and as speculative as it could get and I doubt it's a good idea to spend 35-40 mil to try if he would indeed change his ways
by this same reasoning, he should be constantly benched and played as a sub so that he stays motivated. It's every professional player's duty to play it all for his team ... does Milan really need a player who will lose motivation once he's earned a first-team place and has become a fan-favourite?
So what if he makes it in Milan and earn's a regular place on the field and in the fans' hearts ... if he is one of those players, who "slack around" once they are at the top, the chance of losing his place on the team won't stop him from doing so because he has it in his nature to lose motivation once he's achieved his goal ... maybe for a little while the possibility of being benched would keep him alert but in the long run he would do at Milan exactly what you say he's doing at Atletico.
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You're right, there wasn't too much final product from him, but that was also due to Spain's relaxed attitude. Torres' made runs with the ball, passed out wide for a return cross but then was not found as the ball went backwards. That's not Torres' fault, plus he had the sense to carry on with his run or make intelligent movement in and around the box.
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the same goes for Villa - it's not like his teammates put in an extra effort for Villa to shine - yet he managed to create the goal for Spain and in general be the source of anything meaningful they created up front. All torres did was impress with his linear speed that didn't lead to anything memorable because he seems to be a bit too much in love with his own quickness.
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Villa was great and is the guy most people would want right now, but he is older than Torres by a few years and sometimes that experience is what you need to turn head down running into substance. Torres could easily learn the finer points of movement at Milan no problem, i don't see why people are so against him, his positives far out weigh his negatives.
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that's invloves a lot of speculation and wishful thinking, you know. not much of an excuse as there are a lot of players out there who indeed improved after 22-23 yo but also many who didn't change their ways that much, if anything at all.
Villa himself was a much more accomplished - not as hyped but his football had a lot more substance - player at 22-23 ... not to mention many others who at this age were already well defined players.
Dont get me wrong, I agree that Torres "might" improve and there are others who have done so after the age of 22-23 but the main problem I have with that is that this is a speculation that has a 35-40 mil pricetag on its head ... and if you are gonna pay this type of moneys, you'd better be getting a finished product for it and not an "if he does this and that, this and that might happen" type of player.
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Lets face it, he couldn't be any worse than Oliveira! Torres or Villa, either one would be a great addition, but you'd have to join the queue for Villa i think he'll end up at Liverpool soon enough 
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actually he could - he would cost us at least twice as much as Oliveira did ... and I wouldn't compare them just now because Torres isn't the one playing his football in a foreign country, he isn;t the one trying to adjust to dif style of football and he definitely isn;t the one whose sister was kidnapped without any news of her.