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Originally Posted by Tony29.
You gotta be kidding me ? It took them almost 1 billion spent on transfers and a relegation of Juventus for them to win something.
I was thinking about all this over-paying of youngsters and how much impossible is to make a perfect prediction and know if you are over-paying or you're not.
Just look at Ibrahimovic. Juve bought him for 19m euro. Just like Sneijder, Ibra came from Ajax and he was 23. He didn't have great goalscoring record (never scored more than 13 goals in 1 season, in Dutch league) , he never had big matches behind him.
At the time everybody thought Juve is seriously overpaying. After the first season it looked like Juve did spent the money wise. After his second season, those 19m again seemed like serious overpaying. When Juve was forced to sell him, i remember that people here objected a lot when they heard Milan wants to give more than 20m for Zlatan. After Inter payed 24m, people (including myself, i admit, even though i am huge fan of Zlatan) were laughing and again saying how Inter over-payed.
And now ? Did Juve overpay when we bought him for 19m euro ?
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just for the record, not that it makes much of a dif, I do believe that Juve bought Ibra for 15-16 mil, not 19.
And yes, before he came to Juve, he did have big games behind him ... he was always a player to show his quality in big games, or at least most of them, and even vs Milan in CL ... that was because he had and has character, good or bad, mercenary or not, Ibra does have character and that's what differentiates winners from loosers in the end of the day - not talent, not ability but character.
That's exactly what carlo said about Kaka when he was speaking about Pato and Gourcuff and how character was the most imprtnat thing in a young talent taking that extra step from being just a talent to becoming a great player, a difference maker ... it was Kaka's character of a winner that helped him - at the age of 21 and completely new to European football - nail a CL-winning playmaker like Rui Costa on Milan's bench.
That's what Moggi saw in Ibra - the character, not just the ability and talent ... which leads me to my other argument - let's not forget who made the decision to get ibra and pay 15/16 mils (or let's make it 19) for him (and not Sneijder) - was it Moggi and Co (one of the shrudest managements in football) or was it the clown-duo of Calderon and Mijatovic, who after 200 mil spent, and counting, are yet to conjure up a transfer that isn't gonna be a total bust, or close to it ... actually, it looks like the only "transfer" they made that didn't fail was Capello's (and RvN's, who capello asked to be brought to Madrid) ... and we all know the end of that love story
Sneijder, unlike Ibra, I see as a "colorless" player, one who lacks character of a winner, one who doesn't have what a player who makes a difference has, one who isn't a leader but prefers to follow when it matters most.
Maybe he would change later in his career but I'd think that if he'd ever have it in him, he'd have shown it by now.
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Then goes Henry. I'm not sure but i think he came to Juve on bosman rule. He was only 22 but already proven with a WC and EC won.
Then Juve sells him for 15m euro to Arsenal.
At the time when Arsenal bought him....did they overpay ? They payed 15m for a player who seriously failed his first test in a great club and great league.
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that was the whole point of my argument - Sneijder has been around for 5 years now and all he's been (and would have remained if not for Calderon the talent seeker) for all these years is "a player of interest" to the big european clubs and that's about it ... always second, never at the top.
The guy is 23 yo already ... he is no longer a promising player ... by this age, most players have already formed themselves as players, they have been established already ... of course in time they will get better with experience but most of the "juice" should already be on show by the age of 23.
As for Henry, I believe Juve paid good money for him - pretty much the same they got from Arsenal - but you said it yourself - by the age of 22 he was already proven or at least have accomplished more than Sneijder has.
And who paid those 15 mil for a player who failed his first test - his coach from his early years in Monaco, who was well aware of Henry's talent and potential to become a top player (and him being an excellent coach must have told him that Henry being used in a dif position and not his best also contributed to his failure at Juve).
Curiously, Weneger was one of many coaches of big european clubs who at some point were interested in Sneijder ... don't remember him making move for him though even when Sneijder could be bought for 10 mil and probably even less
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Now Manchester Utd. They payed 18m euro for 18yo Cristiano Ronaldo. They payed 45m euro for 19yo Wayne Rooney and now they payed 21m euro for 20yo Nani.
Lets just imagine that we don't know how good Rooney and CR7 turned out to be.
Without that knowledge, do you think these two weren't worthy of the money ManU payed ?
And now, do you guys think ManU overpayed for Nani and he'll never live up to the price tag and the expectations ?
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there is one main difference between Sneijder's case and those guys you mentioned above (although I would take the Boxer-look-alike out of it cause we all know how crazy EPL teams go when the odd English talent appears from somewhere - common sense business hardly has anything to do with those transactions ... plus, Rooney was already proven in EPL and the English NT when ManU took the plunge for him).
Anyways, the difference is that talents like Nani and CR needed to be scouted for probably a year, maybe less, before they convinced SAF that they are worth the investment ... In Sneijder's case, this scouting took 5 years and no club decided to make a move eventhough his price was 10-12 for some time ... again, maybe even he would still be at Ajax if it wasn't for Real M to come along.
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I have many more examples but this three will do. My point is that we make judgments very easily while in reality we're helpless to predict with a confidence how good will they turn out to be.
That's why scouts exists. They know a lot more about these youngsters than we do. If the scouts who followed Robinho thought that he'll be good and worthy to pay 22m then they had good reason for that.
But it's always a risk. Like i said, sometimes you get Kaka sometimes Legrottagllie.
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true, but then again, it really depends on who those scouts are and what their track record is - for a millionth time, why it took 5 years for a big European club to finally "steal" Sneijder from Ajax after he's been in the shop window for such a long time for the very best scouts and coaches in Europe to see what he's capable of.