All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by thanatos

For this year's title, I'm not sure what would happen...we might get the
title, we might not. But it's not worth spending too much time thinking
about...I will bet that when all is said and done Juventus will NOT be
relegated. Something will happen to prevent that. Perhaps a general amnesty will be called, perhaps there won't be enough proof, perhaps
the Pope will intercede, (that was a joke...), but I feel certain that
Juventus will not get sent down. Which pisses me off, because

"

Galliani said this today : "This season’s Scudetto is not sub judice, it will be assigned regularly.”

So if Juve wins this Scudetto, then it will be asigned to Juve and it will stay Juve's. But the question is about last years Scudetto, and as thanatos said, if rules are followed, then it will be revoked, and our friend The-Fan won't have to worry for Milan winning it on green table !

Also, Lega Calcio vice-President Maurizio Zamparini asked today for Galliani's resignation ! This could get much bigger than we all think.

Now back to Jeffs post......

Is Milan, Juventus, Inter, Roma etc. publicly traded on stock market?

TonY: I won't have time to reply you today because I'm going to be busy for the rest of the day. So, don't take my disappearnace as a sign of Milan's dishonesty.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I'm 100% sure that Milan is under investigation as well, as do every single team in Italy. If Milan REALLY did it, I would not only be completely distraught but also feel ashamed. Having said, I won't even bother to go to another team's forum and try making a case for Milan. It's quite pathetic.

Jeff you really don't like, and can't handle, what i'm saying here, right ? I get the feeling you feel me as a threat to your coloured world, where the victim Milan is being repressed by the bad Juve !

I just read your reply on my stats, and i'm dissapointed. Only assumptions , lot's of "if's" and nothing that holds water.
I'm blind or stupid and i really can't find "the other guy's post", where he explains to me why is Juve more succesful in Europe than Milan , in last 11-12 years while Moggi was general director.

To save you from the answer i expect, and that is : Milan being much more successful than Juve in Champions League history, i'll say that here we're talking about the guy who is "ruining" Italian football, and the facts say that while this guy was in Juve, Juve was the best Italian team in Europe, and the second best team in Europe, behind Real Madrid !

Originally Posted by Jeff

Is Milan, Juventus, Inter, Roma etc. publicly traded on stock market?

TonY: I won't have time to reply you today because I'm going to be busy for the rest of the day. So, don't take my disappearnace as a sign of Milan's dishonesty.

Yap, i would have taken it as yours dishonesty, not Milan's, but now i'm calm and i know that tomorrow will be the day when i'll get many answers on my questions.

Cheers !

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Jeff you really don't like, and can't handle, what i'm saying here, right ? I get the feeling you feel me as a threat to your coloured world, where the victim Milan is being repressed by the bad Juve !

I just read your reply on my stats, and i'm dissapointed. Only assumptions , lot's of "if's" and nothing that holds water.
I'm blind or stupid and i really can't find "the other guy's post", where he explains to me why is Juve more succesful in Europe than Milan , in last 11-12 years while Moggi was general director.

To save you from the answer i expect, and that is : Milan being much more successful than Juve in Champions League history, i'll say that here we're talking about the guy who is "ruining" Italian football, and the facts say that while this guy was in Juve, Juve was the best Italian team in Europe, and the second best team in Europe, behind Real Madrid !

lol, with utomst respect, I probably can't handle the fact that you are trying so hard to defend Juve. Getting trophy is one thing, having sportsmanship is another.

Didn't you know about the korean scientist who try cheating for a ground-breaking publication? I feel really bad for him, but honesty is what we should always uphold which, of cousre, leads me to the conclusion that if Milan cheated, I would feel utterly distraught.

Regarding the stats, I think you finally get my point. There are so many 'if's in the stats that it speaks nothing. And anyway, my argument about foul per yellow card is as solid as wood. But again, it's pointless to talk about stats. So many 'if's, right?

And finally, when the notion of sportsmanship is violated, why are we still counting the number of trophies one hold during his reign? Do you count the korean scientists' number of publication and success in the past when his ethic is put on trial?

****************

It's an ethical question here, and I leave everyone here reading this particular post to ponder on the meaning of sportsmanship and honesty.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Yap

Now I feel even more sad for those who are holding Juventus' stock lol. 10% drop today. Man this is rough.

Ciao ragazzi~

Originally Posted by Jeff

Now I feel even more sad for those who are holding Juventus' stock lol. 10% drop today. Man this is rough.

Ciao ragazzi~

Yes, too bad for the people who lost their money
So, Moggi resigned finally ! Where do u think he'll go now ? Roma, Inter, Milan, Lazio, jail ????
Many options for him, maybe we can even re-open the "Moggi to Milan" thread now. To be honest, besides Milan, Inter and jail, i can't see another club or place for him.

After all this scandal, if Juve gets its 29th scudetto this weekend, will they dare to celebrate it? i mean knowing the shame their club is in, and the crisis that is ahead. It would be really strange in my opinion.

If he (Moggi) comes to Milan, I will no longer count myself a Milan fan, until either he, Berlu, and/or Galliani resign or sell the club...(this for the instance of Berlu).

If he indeed came to Milan, then it would mean that we hire cheats...it would mean that, since "birds of a feather, flock together", that we are just as guilty as Juve is.

I however, dont think that is the case, and he wont come to Milan..he needs to crawl back under the rock he emerged from a decade ago.

Let me add this as well, from channel4.com. For the entire articleclick here

Today Lega Calcio vice-President Maurizio Zamparini called for Galliani to follow in what would be a total restructuring of Italian football.


“The Lega has expressed its intention to go towards a radical change, not just in the Federation, but also the Lega itself,” noted Zamparini, who is also patron of Palermo.


“It should be put in the hands of an external caretaker President. We’ve discussed this option many times and everyone agrees on it except Galliani.”


The Milan transfer guru was quick to dismiss these calls to resign his post in charge of the Lega Calcio.


“This is the first I’ve heard of it,” said Galliani. “We have never talked about the possibility of my resignation during the meetings of all the clubs, so this is a personal view taken by Zamparini. I am amazed and don’t see why I should quit, especially as resigning is a sign of weakness in Italy. There’s no reason for me to go now.”


Instead, Galliani proposed a ‘Code of Ethics’ for football, which was approved unanimously by the clubs in today’s meeting.

Remember the song: "Things that make you go hmmmmmm?" Well, if resignation is a sign of weakness in Italy...what does that make the entire Juve Board of Directors?

Originally Posted by Giovanni

If Juve gets relegated all his players will be sold.
And if one of the charges is confirmed by a sentence, if a fraud is confirmed, give a relegation as 100% sure.

The charges are popping up in Napoli, Roma, and Torino (if i don't mistake).
They go from financial frauds, to threats, , to unfair competition on market, and other big ones. If one of them gets confirmed, and it seems we ignore the biggest part which is not public yet, Juve will be relegated and some throphies deleted (esp last year's scudetto).

Watching this scenario unbiasedly, i can say they have 5% of chances to avoid a condamn for any of these charges. These is the downfall of an era for Italian football.

Really? I am surely surprised you find it this likely that they will be punished. for me it always felt like they will get away no matter what. For sure though you have much more and better information than me on this subject.

Oh and I would appreciate if you could post some summarizes on what the Italia press say about all these things.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

I just read your reply on my stats, and i'm dissapointed. Only assumptions , lot's of "if's" and nothing that holds water.
I'm blind or stupid and i really can't find "the other guy's post", where he explains to me why is Juve more succesful in Europe than Milan , in last 11-12 years while Moggi was general director.

I can tell you why. As all these allegations and phone taps say you have been controlling the player market, getting more money in shady and shoddy deals and both by this and with other means have won so many serie A games that that also brought you in much more money. Money buys succes.

If we talk about our succes in europe compared to yours the last 10 years we MUST take into consideration how the teams did in Italy too. And in that case it looks clearly like Milan done compareably better than you. You have three times as many Scudettos in that time, we have not even participated in UCL all these years. The bar is really leaning towards you doing much better in Serie A compared to UCL as in relation to how we have done.

We could also discuss what was found in your "medicine locker", but I suppose you think that didn't happen since Agriola got all the blame and no player admitted to having taken any illegal substance.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Let me add this as well, from channel4.com. For the entire articleclick here

Remember the song: "Things that make you go hmmmmmm?" Well, if resignation is a sign of weakness in Italy...what does that make the entire Juve Board of Directors?

Even better. I heard a rumour that Zamparini wanted to sign Moggi himself

Otherwise I agree with anyone saying that Galliani shouldn't be director of both Milan and Lega calcio at the same time. In light of that he should step down or we should impose a rule that the president of Lega Calcio shouldn't be able to hold a position in a club. Should be noted though that this is no different from England where David Dein sits on double chairs (and maybe some more guys).

not a huge shock, but I can still admit I was surprised to see the Juve board resign today.

Really not sure what to say about the issue, more than anything, I guess I'm just curious what'll happen at Juve now.

The thing is what are you going to do to Juve?

Their entire board resigned, which only means one thing, they made mistakes. Will the board take blame for all of this, u bet ya. Will Juve excape? Not a chance. Yes Tony might say, Juve as a team and club did not do anything....They should not be punish for the board's mistake...The shareholders and team manager do not know anything about these scandals....However, if this is the case, then FIFA and the rest of the world will no longer give any Italian Teams Credit.

THis is not a case where finding out who is guilty... it has more to do with proving to the rest of the world that, yes, Italian Football might not be as clean as other leagues, but they are also taking steps to make sure it is back to the so call clean and righteous position. Juve as a club must be punish, or else it would not be just. Yes, it won't be fair to the fans and the players, since they have nothing to do with it, but it won't be fair for all those others that if Juve can get away with this.

The punishment might not be sending Juve to Series C2, but relegation is a must.
Also, they should forbide Juve to participate in any European competition for the next few yrs, as well as, blocking them from the transfer market for the next few years.

I know it might be tough and Juve and the former boardmembers have not been trial, so they are innocent, but lets face it. If there isn't any sufficient evidence, would the legal department go public with this scandal?

In short, Juve will be punish as a sign that Italian Football is heading back in the right direction.