Worst Transfer season ever!

Originally Posted by Rick

You seem to be contradicting yourself. On one hand you tell me that you're not saying you have to be more healthy to play in Italy than in Brazil, but on the other hand you go on to say that he can get away with being at a certain level of health in Brazil (75 percent) but needs to be healthier in Italy (100 percent).

At about the same time that Oliveira was injured last year, an American football player named Daunte Culpepper suffered a far more serious injury than Oliveira's. He tore his anterior cruciate, medial collateral and posterior cruciate ligaments. Knee injuries can be of particular concern to quarterbacks because they depend on their legs in their throwing motion, they're always planting their feet, making quick motions to escape and, of course, being tackled by 300-pound oxes. It was thought that he might miss half of this season. But in preseason he has had no problems and he will be in the starting lineup for the Miami Dolphins when the season opens on Thursday. That's only one example that comes readily to mind, but it shows that athletes can accelerate their comebacks with hard work.

Now I understand that there is a higher risk or further injury upon returning from ACL surgery. A study conducted on professional footballers in Sweden a few years ago proved that. According to the study, the usual six-month rehab from an ACL injury probably isn't enough. The same study also noted that the first few months after a player's return to action are crucial since many injuries occur during that period. But Oliveira returned to the field at the end of March, so he's had more than five months to test the knee.

So I will continue to be the eternal optimist and trust the Milan doctors and the Milan scouts until something happens to prove otherwise. I just don't see how any of us can presume to know one way or the other, but Milan has invested a lot of money in this guy. They're not idiots. If they weren't satisfied that his knee was okay, they wouldn't have bought him.

Once again you demonstrate your uncanny ability to distort other people's words. An eternal optimist you might be, but open-minded and willing to listen and accept other's ideas you are not. So let me again clarify for you:

1) Being 75 or 100 percent is not about somebody being "healthy" or not. It's about reaching his "pre-injury" state. After a serious injury, it takes a long time to be 100 percent again. So Oliveira's time in Brazil was certainly a rehabiltative one. He was certainly not 100 percent, and after only 12 games, I was expressing my doubts as to whether he is now at 100 percent---fitness wise, skill wise, and injury wise. What the hell is so difficult to understand about that?

2) Please dont compare a cruciate knee injury to an American football player to that of a football player. The implications are different as both sports require different range of motion of the knee. I could care less if Dante Culpepper recovered in six months. What I care about is whether RO will recover "completely" from his injury and that his injury will have to lasting effects on his abilities as a football player. It is a concern that one should have about every footballer who suffers such an injury---especially a striker who relies on his speed and ball control. Have I made that clear enough or would you like to "twist" my words further?

3) Yes, you are right. Re-injury post ACL injury is not uncommon and is a grave concern. But one cannot draw a definitive conclusion based on a period of 12 matches post-injury. Ask Pippo Inzaghi how long he took to finally get over his re-injury problems. You are free to express your opinion, but as a doctor who has experience in orthopedic surgery, I can tell you that I will only breath a sigh of relief when RO plays for us continuously until New Year and remains completely injury-free. This is simply my personal opinion. You can draw your own conclusions.

4) NObody is saying that the Milan doctors are idiots. Again you masterfully demonstrate the art of distortion. As a physician myself, I am expressing my own concerns regarding the situation. And I can tell you that the Milan doctors all probably also share similar concerns. But in life there is no guarantee, I am sure that they put him through a very stringent medical and he passed with no problems. But I can guarantee you that if RO suffers an injury on the field, the one thing playing through the Milan doctors' minds would be a re-aggravation of his previous injury---it is a legitimate concern. But then again signing any player is a calculated risk. If a player has a history of serious knee injury, it is even more of a risk. You are right, Milan doctors are not idiots. They would only be idiots if they did not have legitimate concerns about a player's injury and his recuperation period post-injury. ANd for me to express a similar concern based on professional experience and knowledge does not make me a pessimist or an "idiot". It is simply being realistic.

So, I hope this is the last time I have to reply to you. You can be the eternal optimist, or whatever you want to call yourself. Be happy and good luck. But dont forget that there are others who have opinions and ideas that are different to yours. Learn to accept other's opinions without challenging every single nitty gritty detail with your own "wisdom". Live and let live my friend.

Originally Posted by rt9

Once again you demonstrate your uncanny ability to distort other people's words. An eternal optimist you might be, but open-minded and willing to listen and accept other's ideas you are not. So let me again clarify for you:

1) Being 75 or 100 percent is not about somebody being "healthy" or not. It's about reaching his "pre-injury" state. After a serious injury, it takes a long time to be 100 percent again. So Oliveira's time in Brazil was certainly a rehabiltative one. He was certainly not 100 percent, and after only 12 games, I was expressing my doubts as to whether he is now at 100 percent---fitness wise, skill wise, and injury wise. What the hell is so difficult to understand about that?

2) Please dont compare a cruciate knee injury to an American football player to that of a football player. The implications are different as both sports require different range of motion of the knee. I could care less if Dante Culpepper recovered in six months. What I care about is whether RO will recover "completely" from his injury and that his injury will have to lasting effects on his abilities as a football player. It is a concern that one should have about every footballer who suffers such an injury---especially a striker who relies on his speed and ball control. Have I made that clear enough or would you like to "twist" my words further?

3) Yes, you are right. Re-injury post ACL injury is not uncommon and is a grave concern. But one cannot draw a definitive conclusion based on a period of 12 matches post-injury. Ask Pippo Inzaghi how long he took to finally get over his re-injury problems. You are free to express your opinion, but as a doctor who has experience in orthopedic surgery, I can tell you that I will only breath a sigh of relief when RO plays for us continuously until New Year and remains completely injury-free. This is simply my personal opinion. You can draw your own conclusions.

4) NObody is saying that the Milan doctors are idiots. Again you masterfully demonstrate the art of distortion. As a physician myself, I am expressing my own concerns regarding the situation. And I can tell you that the Milan doctors all probably also share similar concerns. But in life there is no guarantee, I am sure that they put him through a very stringent medical and he passed with no problems. But I can guarantee you that if RO suffers an injury on the field, the one thing playing through the Milan doctors' minds would be a re-aggravation of his previous injury---it is a legitimate concern. But then again signing any player is a calculated risk. If a player has a history of serious knee injury, it is even more of a risk. You are right, Milan doctors are not idiots. They would only be idiots if they did not have legitimate concerns about a player's injury and his recuperation period post-injury. ANd for me to express a similar concern based on professional experience and knowledge does not make me a pessimist or an "idiot". It is simply being realistic.

So, I hope this is the last time I have to reply to you. You can be the eternal optimist, or whatever you want to call yourself. Be happy and good luck. But dont forget that there are others who have opinions and ideas that are different to yours. Learn to accept other's opinions without challenging every single nitty gritty detail with your own "wisdom". Live and let live my friend.

Well, here's what it all boils down to: you are in Thailand and Milan's doctors are in Milan; they examined Ricardo Oliveira and you didn't; Milan's scouts scouted him and you didn't. So, with no offense meant to you, I will place my confidence in the extremely qualified doctors who actually examined him rather than one who is trying to make a diagnosis from thousands of miles away. Of course there are no guarantees. In fact, I was probably the first one to use that particular term in the discussion of Oliveira. But then again, there are no guarantees for anyone.

Of course the injury is something they'll want to keep an eye on for a time, but you make it sound as though there's about a 50-50 chance he'll be of any use at all with all your talk of "ending careers" and your claim that it's not common for a player "to ever come back to 100 percent." (In fact, the vast majority do, although rehab times to that point vary widely.) And you certainly didn't seem to be expressing much confidence in Milan's doctors when you said "hopefully Milan lab has checked him out thoroughly."

My main contention with your original premise was the idea that somehow he could prove his fitness in Spain better than in Brazil, a country that produces more skilled footballers than any other in the world. It seems to me as though you've not seen much of the Brazilian clubs if you don't realize the level of performance required to be successful there.

Anyway, you are obviously entitled to your opinion. But I am also entitled to mine and it is my opinion that you're being overly pessimistic and unintentionally fueling the fires of those who think Milan is going to Hell in a handbasket. But to each his own, amigo.

(How's that. Sorry, it was nearly 2 a.m. and I did it hurriedly.)

Did any of you guys hear of something called paragraphs? I feel you guys are making important points but I just decide to ignore because it looks like a big block of nothing.

He would of required to have passed a medical before being signed anyway. And do take note that injuries are not because of genetic inherentinces or disorders. So the physios can easily get rid of this 'problem' that Oliveira had.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Supreme, good point, and I am glad to hear the other side, because I hardly believe everything Chelski says...but either the player did something close, or the club is really abysmal, or both. I tend to believe with "both".

Yeah Gallas is a shady character. He isonly money driven. Would rather have a 'lessor-known' hard working centre back than him.

If Gallas was money driven he would have stayed at Chelsea were they offered him a huge new contract, but he didn't.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

Did any of you guys hear of something called paragraphs? I feel you guys are making important points but I just decide to ignore because it looks like a big block of nothing.

... that was great

Gallas was money driven... he demanded a huge wage from Arsenal... as we all know... Henry's wages were the only exception beyond their wage structure... now you can add Gallas to that list...
as for reports about him scorin' an own-goal... gettin' himself dismissed... etc... oh boy... Chelsea sure are runnin' out of ideas... can't they come up with better bullsh*t to entertain their glory-huntin' fans?

Here is more detail on the Gallas issue, and some quotes from him:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...864949,00.html

Bottom line for me, is where he had (according to Chelski) had "illegal" meetings with Milan...this may be one of the reasons why we didnt persue him...possibly Chelski found out about those meetings at a point when Milan wouldnt have wanted them to, which could have led to us not going all the way to get the player.

So, to go back to the topic...this is just one example where our management was trying to get some reinforcements, but for one reason or another, couldnt.

Is this the worst transfer season ever? Well, I really dont think it was worse than the one that saw Bierfool *cough* Bierhoff and Helveg join our illustrious club...and as bad as it was, we still won the scudetto...so, go figure!

IF he had illegal meetings with our club, it begs the question what the hell are we doing? Can't we negotiate transfers properly or something?

First between Oliveira and ourselves we allow the target to meet us when he shouldn't and subsequently get punished with the transfer fee and now this. What happened to doing things properly, does anyone regarding transfers have their thinking cap on? Doesn't sound like it.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

IF he had illegal meetings with our club, it begs the question what the hell are we doing? Can't we negotiate transfers properly or something?

First between Oliveira and ourselves we allow the target to meet us when he shouldn't and subsequently get punished with the transfer fee and now this. What happened to doing things properly, does anyone regarding transfers have their thinking cap on? Doesn't sound like it.

Jim, you started that post pretty well, with a BIG "IF" .... but the ending tells me that you have kind of forgotten about that "IF" as you, more or less, focus on a certain possibility and seem to ignore the rest - that "IF" applies to the Oliveira case just as nicely as it does to Gallas-gate
... maybe that "IF" at the beginning should have been made bigger and bolder ... just kidding

haha ... ok then Zlat

IF they are BOTH true ... then it does suggest a somewhat chaotic and unsensible way to do transfers.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

haha ... ok then Zlat

IF they are BOTH true ... then it does suggest a somewhat chaotic and unsensible way to do transfers.

haha
that's better but still lacks a final touch - the first IF was bolder and more ... handsome, I think

i'm not making it any bigger ... someone will complain ... you'll have to satisfy your typographical urges elsewhere Zlat

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

IF he had illegal meetings with our club, it begs the question what the hell are we doing? Can't we negotiate transfers properly or something?

Dont kno Jim...other clubs do it as a matter of course...but there is the possibility that management were slightly desperate...or that Gallas came out and spoke before he was supposed to...hell bro, I have no idea..but we shouldnt speculate on what we are pretty clueless about...

It is certain that we know much less about our transfer targets, etc than we claim to...media speculation is one thing..but anyone that has studied warfare knows the value of misinformation...therefore, unless we hear it from Galliani et al, we are merely speculating on the media´s speculation...for instance..what came of Galliani´s meeting (however accidental or not) with Drogba?

I propose it went like this:

G: Hi Drogba!

D: Hi Uncle Fester!

G: I told you never to call me that!

D: (chuckles into his napkin) Sorry Mr. Galliani, but I heard...

(Interrupted by Galliani)
G: Never mind that, I was going to offer you a spot on our team, but that Uncle Fester comment just made me change my mind...

D: No! Please Unc...I mean Mr Galliani! I am so very sorry! I will clean boots, wash my own jock straps, I will even teach Pippo how to get away with hand balls, while he teaches me how to dive properly...anything..just please..
(Interupted by Galliani)
G: Sorry Dogba*cough* I mean Drogba...have to go...there is this Brazilian that I have to show his new apartment to...bye! Dont choke on your spaghetti!

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Supreme, good point, and I am glad to hear the other side, because I hardly believe everything Chelski says...but either the player did something close, or the club is really abysmal, or both. I tend to believe with "both".

I just read that Gallas retorted by saying that he has nothing said something like this, and he couldn't understand why he is accused. The French coach is also in full support of him.

At the end, he said that "Some people are rich but lack gentleman-ship (if there is a word like this lol)"

It's from a CHinese source but again it usually comes from other sources and they translate it into Chinese.