what is so bad about Gilardino??

There seems to be this huge misconception that if someone argues against your point, they must think you are stupid. I don't get that at all. Why are you all feeling so hard done by? Hitman, Drucurl, Egoistka, all of you have mentioned how you believe you are being told you are stupid, retarded, or whatever because someone argues against your points. What a load of bull!

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, it's not personal attacks, no one is saying you can't post what you feel like, etc. All that's happened is that some points have been raised by the (and i dislike using labels, but here i will) "Anti-Gilardinos" and been deconstructed and at times proven wrong by the "Pro-Gilardinos". It's what debating is all about.

This is no reflection on what one group personally think of the other group. None of us are that insensitive. I'll say this, for my personal opinion i am for the best in form players, playing for the team. I'm not blinded by Gilardino's lethargy in front of goal, if he doesn't deserve to start then he shouldn't play. That aside, what i do argue against is the amount of criticism he's got from people here. That is what i argue against. Alot of the points made against him are just non-sensical and a little weak.

Again, sorry to use labels but, the "Anti-Gilardinos" say one thing and when it is disproved, it's moaned about and reacted to as if you've just been insulted. Stuff like Gilardino doesn track back or help the team, well neither did Shevchenko, Inzaghi or Kaka to any great deal. He's not the first so why alienate him as the main culprit? You say he doesn't score winning goals or important goals and yet that it was proved that he did. Again, this doesn't make him a "Poster boy", this doesn't blind us to the fact that he needs to work harder. But he's not the only one. Just find an argument that is a criticism of him and not a generalisation.

Oh and Hitman, that's a good post. Except for where you say Nefremo's points are all ridiculous and then whinge about being labelled as a retard for your views. Double standards i think that's called.

Originally Posted by drucurl

I think all these attacks on Ego just becaus eof her preference are unwarranted. Many here have insulted me also for my views on their posterboy Gilardino.
Can we not have a differing opinion and voice such without having to endure ridicule for such???

I think it's absolutely hillarious that no one here has as yet commented on the fact that Gila, as the 1st choice striker for Italy, notched the same no. goals as did Inzaghi who came in as a sub for a couple of minutes. Even worse, they proceed to criticise Luca Toni...perhaps in the hope that by making Toni look bad Gila may look better??

Firstly, I've been looking through the thread and I don't see attacks on Oksana, but rather her arguments. You can voice an opinion, but you have to be prepared to accept not everyone will agree with your opinion, and many will argue against it, especially in this case where those arguing against you feel there's little evidence to back

Point out where people have insulted you.

Toni was first choice striker for Italy, Gila was mostly a sub during the WC. In fact, Gila and Toni only played a couple of games together, and during these games neither were scoring.

nefremo
Registered User




Join Date: 03 2001
Location: USA; born and raised in Macedonia
Favorite Player: Maldini, Kaka, Nesta, Pirlo

You say that he is not a reliable goalscorer, which is fine. That is your oppinion, but untill you PROVE that your oppinion is the right one you will get people on your back. For example even if I wanted to, I can't take your side because the arguments against your oppinion are totally stronger and make sence.

That you could think of an argument to support a player who has scored his first CL goal in his second SEASON with a huge club is peposterous! A RELIABLE goalscorer is not one who scores goals by the boatload and then none for long stretches. Gila did have prolific seasons with Parma and had a decent tally in his debut season. But his current campaign leaves much to be desired.

Your side said that he hasn't scored a single goal while Inzaghi and RO have scored at least one. - Gila proved that wrong because now he has 2 goals.

Another out-of context argument. This claim was made during his drought. Obviously at some point he will score. So if he went all eason without scoring and scored right at the end would you ahve cited this still?

Your side said that even though he sometimes scores, those goals are only unimportant ones. -Tony proved that wrong

I said "generally", as in his goals are "generally" low pressure goals or they were scored when others have already done so. Statistically I am correct. no need to beat a dead horse on this one.

Your side said that Gila is arrogant and said god knows what about Sheva. -AGAIN that was proven wrong by a lot of people here

firstly I have only praise for Sheva. Secondly, I have never said Gila was arrogant. I said perhaps if he was arrogant, this may be an explanation for his poor performance. This statement is not definitive but speculative. Even if other "anti-gila" members have said that he IS arrogant YOU have no proof that he isn't either because you don't know him personally so back off!

Then a stupid fantasy football game was used to make us believe that Gila sucks. -This by the way didn't even have to be proven wrong.

It wasn't the "be all and end all" of assessments but doesn't it bother you that by and large most wanted nothing to do with Gila? Not even listing him as a sub? IMHO Milan is a fantasy team and the caliber of players we put on the pitch should match only the loftiest of ambitions. Can you honestly say that Gila meets this description? Don't you agree that Milan's starting striker should be the best or at least up there with the best?

RVN, Robinho, Ronaldo, Sheva, Drogba, Eto'o, Saviola, Rooney, Saha, RV Persie, Henry, Inzaghi, Trez, Crespo, Toni, Kuyt, Crouch, Owen, Villa, Morientes, Milito- Are all arguably better than Gila. Are you proud of this

I'll answer for you: You can't becuase you don't have even a weak argument. It is all based on you own personal dissliking of the player

I'm quite sure you will again refer to my further arguments as 'weak' with your wanton usage of misquotes and pseudo-facts

Originally Posted by drucurl

RVN, Robinho, Ronaldo, Sheva, Drogba, Eto'o, Saviola, Rooney, Saha, RV Persie, Henry, Inzaghi, Trez, Crespo, Toni, Kuyt, Crouch, Owen, Villa, Morientes, Milito- Are all arguably better than Gila. Are you proud of this

I'm quite sure you will again refer to my further arguments as 'weak' with your wanton usage of misquotes and pseudo-facts

Yes Arguably, the ones in bold between have not scored more than Gila, except Saviola who scored two against a low league team yesterday. I would say about half of those are better than him and most of them are long time established stars, some like Toni and Crouch had done nothing when they where Gilardinos age.

Gila have not been in form for some time, but he is a very good player.

I am speaking of strikers playing right now otherwise Adriano and others would have been on the list as well.

I would say about half of those are better than him and most of them are long time established stars, some like Toni and Crouch had done nothing when they where Gilardinos age.

All the other strikers listed were not quarter the player Ronaldo was at 23 so I think you're being unfair

Milito is on top of the Scoring charts in Spain.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/t...=esp.1&cc=3888

Ronaldo has only started one league game and played about 30 min in all the others combined
Robinho plays on the wings and has scored in the league AND in the CL
Owen has been out injured but I can't imagine any rational thinker rating Gila above him
RVPersie already scored four goals
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/t...=eng.1&cc=3888

Dracurl....I never missquoted. Those weren't my points and facts...but they were the "anti-Gila" group facts and points. So don't blame me for it.

Again......"Generally" it was proven that most of his goals were important so I don't know why you are still arguing that. Now if you on "YOUR OWN" think that they are still "generally" low pressure goals then I won't try to argue that and change your mind because obviously it hasn't been changed untill now with all the stats provided by Tony, so that makes you statistically INCORRECT.

Second....I don't know Gila personally but neither do any of you. A totally wrong and missquoted interview was used to make him seem arrogant. There is no evidence showing that he is arrogant, so we have no choice but to think that he is not right?

And no, it doesn't bother me that a bunch of people didn't put Gila in their fantasy team. It is only a game, and it means nothing, and certainly it doesn't mean that Gila is not good enough.

Like I said, all these points were from the "anti-Gila" people and they were all like I said proven wrong. Yet you still try to argue them.


Hitman....I agree that the points I put out are ridicilus. Isn't it funny however that you think that as well? Because all those points were made by the "Anti Gila" camp. It is just funny that you think of them as ridicilus as well.

Again......"Generally" it was proven that most of his goals were important so I don't know why you are still arguing that. Now if you on "YOUR OWN" think that they are still "generally" low pressure goals then I won't try to argue that and change your mind because obviously it hasn't been changed untill now with all the stats provided by Tony, so that makes you statistically INCORRECT

Do I have to go a regression/ corelation analysis to show you that you are wrong statistically? because you seem to think otherwise

Second....I don't know Gila personally but neither do any of you. A totally wrong and missquoted interview was used to make him seem arrogant. There is no evidence showing that he is arrogant, so we have no choice but to think that he is not right?

There is no concrete evidence supporting either side so an assumption is merely a matter of personal choice. Personally I don't see him as arrogant, neither is this a view of the anti-gila camp in general. Additionally you yourself are unsure whether the quote is accurate or not because prior to it you had no knowledge of it. So the term "misquoted" is inappropriate.

And no, it doesn't bother me that a bunch of people didn't put Gila in their fantasy team. It is only a game, and it means nothing, and certainly it doesn't mean that Gila is not good enough

"its only a game" huh? what about football. Isn't football only a game as well? When you played football in school did everybody leave the good players out and pick the lame ones first??? Massive doublestandards have been employed to make such an oversimplified statement.
Let me employ my sterling command of the obvious to further enlighten you: "pepole generally tend to pick good/ inform players for their teams". The fact that Gila is not being picked means that its possible he is either one or the other. Most of the anti Gila camp knock his form, personally I think he isn't talented enough. Most of the pro-Gila camp however think its neither and go on to blame everything from the coach to the club itself.

Like I said, all these points were from the "anti-Gila" people and they were all like I said proven wrong. Yet you still try to argue them

Who says you have proven them wrong? Just because we are wrong in your opinion does not change the facts

Oh and my name's 'drucurl' not 'Dracurl'

drucurl, just forget it. Even if he doesnt score for the rest of the season they will continue to support him. These are Gila fans, and not Milan fans as how they call them selves. I'll just sit out this thread and ignore it cuz its really giving me a head ache.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

egoistika, is this magic campionato a fantasy football league like the uefa champs league one? if so, can you plz gimme the league as i have been looking for a Serie A one for a while now!

Well its actually better than uefa champs...At least I enjoy it more. But you cannot sgn now, you can only do it before the next season starts. Its at www.gazzetta.it, the thing is called Magic Campionato.

Originally Posted by drucurl

Most of the pro-Gila camp however think its neither and go on to blame everything from the coach to the club itself.

I think you are wrong there and wrong in a big way. You're making assuptions there and yet before in another post you say you always use facts in your points. I think myself, Jeff, nefremo, Tony and a few others are the main posters in the apparent "Pro" camp, yet i've never blamed the coach or the club for Gilardino's form, i'm pretty sure Jeff hasn't either. If no one has, then where are you getting this from?

Originally Posted by drucurl

Who says you have proven them wrong? Just because we are wrong in your opinion does not change the facts

Who says you've proven them right? Just because you think Nefremo, Tony and myself are wrong because we countered your apparent stats, doesn't make you right or change the facts either.

So i'm not a Milan fan because i don't believe many of the arguments here hold much weight? That's pathetic. You've no right to say that about me or anyone else. If you can't handle people questioning some of the extremely pathetic points against Gilardino in here then don't start debating it in the first place!

lets start up a what is so bad about Oliveira thread, because this one is boring!

I think myself, Jeff, nefremo, Tony and a few others are the main posters in the apparent "Pro" camp, yet i've never blamed the coach or the club for Gilardino's form, i'm pretty sure Jeff hasn't either. If no one has, then where are you getting this from?

I really couldn't be bothered to go through the morass to find the exact quotes which support my point of view. Even if I did you would probably return with some idle rhetoric, disguised as some sort of analysis.
But In short, I hear the pro-Gila fans screaming that gila doesn't score because:
1) We aren't playing the right formation (i.e. carlo isn't getting the best form Gila)
2) He is being played out of position (again Carlo's fault)
3) The whole team is playing poorly hence we couldn't expect our dear beloved striker to score
The last point constitutes "blaming the club"

Who says you've proven them right? Just because you think Nefremo, Tony and myself are wrong because we countered your apparent stats, doesn't make you right or change the facts either

Stats are analysed " statistically. Like I said there is no proof until a regression/ correlation analysis or confidence intervals are done. I really don't have the time for this nonesense

So i'm not a Milan fan because i don't believe many of the arguments here hold much weight

No. I never said you weren't a Milan fan. Frankly I expected more camraderie here in this forum. It is sad that such a war can erupt between us .because some members think Gila is Crap and others can't bear the thought that their hero Gila could possibly be disliked. Nevertheless you are acting contrary to Milan's interests by your support of an underperforming player. That's pathetic.

these are Tony's figures:
1. Ascoli – Milan (1:1) – Cudini, Sheva
2. Milan – Siena (3:1) – Ambrosini, Sheva, Tudor, Kaka
3. Sampdoria – Milan (2:1) – Gila, Bonazzoli, Tonetto
4. Milan – Lazio (2:0) – Sheva, Kaka
5. Treviso – Milan (0:2) – Sheva, Gila
6. Milan – Reggina (2:1) – Maldini, Maldini, Cavalli
7. Cagliari – Milan (0:2) – Gila, Sheva
8. Milan – Palermo (2:1) – Caracciolo, Gattuso, Inzaghi
9. Empoli – Milan (1:3) – Vanucchi, Gila, Gila, Vieri
10. Milan – Juventus (3:1) – Seedorf, Kaka, Pirlo, Trezeguet
11. Milan – Udinese (5:1) – Gila, Seedorf, Pirlo, Gila, Iaquinta, Kaka
12. Fiorentina – Milan (3:1) – Toni, Gila, Jorgensen, Toni
13. Milan – Lecce (2:1) – Pirlo, Konana, Inzaghi
14. Chievo – Milan (2:1) – Kaladze, Pellisier, Tiribocchi
15. Inter – Milan (3:2) – Adriano, Sheva, Martins, Stam, Adriano
16. Milan – Messina (4:0) – Sheva, Sheva, Pirlo, Gila
17. Livorno – Milan (0:3) – Gila, Gila, Sheva
18. Milan – Parma (4:3) – P. Cannavaro, Cardone, Gila, Kaka, Marchionni, Sheva, Marchionni
19. Roma – Milan (1:0) – Mancini
20. Milan – Ascoli (1:0) – Inzaghi
21. Siena – Milan (0:3) – Kaka, Sheva, Kaka
22. Milan – Sampdoria (1:1) – Sheva, Gasbarroni
23. Lazio – Milan (0:0)
24. Milan – Treviso (5:0) – Kaka, Sheva, Gila, Sheva, Inzaghi
25. Reggina – Milan (1:4) – Paredes, Inzaghi, Gila, Inzaghi, Inzaghi
26. Milan – Cagliari (1:0) – Gila (penalty)
27. Palermo – Milan (0:2) – Inzaghi, Sheva
28. Milan – Empoli (3:0) – Inzaghi, Sheva, Inzaghi
29. Juve – Milan (0:0)
30. Udinese – Milan (4:0) – Sheva, Gila, Sheva, Seedorf
31. Milan – Fiorentina (3:1) – Toni, Sheva, Kaka, Gattuso
32. Lecce – Milan (1:0) Konan
33. Milan – Chievo (4:1) – Pellisier, Nesta, Kaka, Kaka, Kaka
34. Milan – Inter (1:0) – Kaladze
35. Messina – Milan (1:3) – Sculli, Janculovski, Gattuso, Gila
36. Milan – Livorno (2:0) – Inzaghi, Inzaghi
37. Parma – Milan (2:3) – Kaka, Cafu, Corradi, Seedorf, Corradi
38. Milan – Roma (2:1) – Kaka, Mexes, Amoroso

I have counted FOUR games in which Gila's goals were decisicve, i.e if he wasn't there we would have lost/drawn or not picked up full points. that's just about 1o.5% i.e Only once in ten games was Gila crucial, if you were to divide by the total number of games played. I don't know about you guys but that figure is pretty small if you asked me.

Originally Posted by drucurl

you would probably return with some idle rhetoric, disguised as some sort of analysis.

It would be closer to an analysis than any of the dross you've written in this thread.

Originally Posted by drucurl

No. I never said you weren't a Milan fan. Frankly I expected more camraderie here in this forum. It is sad that such a war can erupt between us .because some members think Gila is Crap and others can't bear the thought that their hero Gila could possibly be disliked. Nevertheless you are acting contrary to Milan's interests by your support of an underperforming player. That's pathetic.

Did i say you did? Thanks for commenting however, i shall reply with great interest. Once again you make an assumption. Throughout the 300 odd posts in this thread i've always maintained that i've argued against some of the poor points aimed at Gilardino rather than arguing for the player. There is a difference. I don't excuse his bad form, i don't make unecessary excuses for him and should there be TWO better strikers than him at the club and in better form, then they should be playing ahead of him. What i argue against are some of the poorly constructed efforts to criticise the player, that to me is pathetic.

Similarly it seems, you and the other people who argue your side here, can't bear the thought that you might be wrong and that there are people who disagree with you. You all throw your toys out the pram and cry like kids when something goes against you. Boo-hoo.

Oh and one last thing, where on earth do you keep getting this idea that Gilardino is our/my hero? By your logic, Ronaldo must be your 'Poster Boy' and your 'Hero' because you always stand up for him and fight his corner