UCL SF 1st Leg: Manchester United vs. Milan

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Thanx Zlat :P

Edit : Oh, and i forgot to say that the prosecution got the evidence directly form Telecom Italia and one of the owners of Telecom is the owner of Inter's main sponsor Pirelli.
You can only imagine how selective they were in picking evidence

And thinking about all the timing of the selection of the committee and some of the members' connection with Inter... man... this is just plain obvious. Then of course there is not a single call from Inter (who didn't even win the SCudetto for the past N years) was simply not credible.

Awarding Inter Milan the champion last year is a complete joke, and accusing Milan for fixing a Serie B match was equally buffoonable.

A really nice look back at the stats: Manchester United - AC Milan: A Historical Look

Stats really dont mean a thing to me. People are calling United's defence a 'makeshift' one, but I don't think that's going to get them down at all...

My prediction is that it's going to be a very close game as both teams have been up studying each other with great detail. I'll be in school, painfully missing the match, learning about the blindingly interesting past of the Canadian Film industry . God, why? If the right Milan shows up tomorrow then it wouldnt matter if you lined up 3 Ronaldos in front of us. He is special, but he's not UNSTOPPABLE. I hope the ragazzi play the same confident, wonderful, attacking football that they are more than capable of. I hope we show our true champion spirit.

See you all Tuesday night, post-match. Forza Rossoneri!

Originally Posted by curry chicken

I'll be in school, painfully missing the match, learning about the blindingly interesting past of the Canadian Film industry . God, why?

strange brew & slap shot !!!

i have to work too, ill be able to watch 2nd half only

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Most of the accusations were true, for all the clubs involved.
All this is a very very complicated matter and it will take few posts, maybe 1 whole page to explain everything.

If the punished clubs did the same things in England, or in France i'd be expecting nothing else but Juve to be relegated 2 leagues down, Lazio or Fiorentina to be relegated, Milan to miss CL and relegated also.
But it happened in Italy, and with Calciopolli II ( especially with the silly and amatereush accusations about Udinese-Brescia, Sampdoria-Siena, Juventus-Milan and Lazio-Juventus matches) we've seen that the prosecution can not be trusted because they simply have no clue what are they talking about.

The prosecution couldn't prove a single fixed match, so at the end they found a solution in saying : The whole league was fixed !
If the whole league was fixed then it authomatically leads to : All clubs were fixing their matches !
And according to the man who was in the center of the scandal, together with Moggi, the ref designator Pairetto, every single official from every single club ( and most of them all, Inter's official Faschetti) was calling him and asking him for a "good" ref !

Then, if everyone was calling him and if the whole league was fixed, why only 4 teams originally were punished for that ? And why we got the 5th team involved, Reggina, right after ? And why do we have the 6th team involved, Messina, now ?
Will we get more teams involved in the next wave of Calciopolli ?
And will we at the end find out that really everyone was doing the same thing ?

At the end, we have Guido Rossi.
Former member of Inter board was the man who sentenced Juventus, Milan and the other clubs who weren't Inter's friends and were their main rivals.

There are many more iregularities, but at the end you'll get what i told you before : Everyone was involved and only few were punished.
So, when you're saying Milan shouldn't have played CL, you're right but only if Inter and Roma didn't play CL also.
Because we're talking about dirty Italian league here, the whole league, not just Milan, Juve, Fiorentina, Lazio, Reggina and now Messina !

The fact is clubs giving gifts to refs is acceptable in Italy is something worth taking notes of. This is not considered illegal in Italy and asking for refs on a friend-friend basis is again acceptable in Italy so where to draw the line on what is illegal and what's legal became a point to contest. Milan have never involved in fixing the result or outcome of a match unlike our dear Juve, Lazio and Fiorentina have all been proved to be actively involved in influencing the outcome of the matches so why the hell are we getting dragged down with them?

Because the judge is Inter and AC Milan happened to be the club they hate the most. The only thing Milan involved in is asking for refs which every club is doing, reason could be because everybody want a clean ref but nobody has been able to prove a ref help Milan in getting points and winning matches. The fact that the trial is heavily inter-influenced and nobody even raise an eyebrow just speak volumes of the fairness of the trial.

Milan has been doing so well in UCL compared to the other italian clubs, doesn't this tell you Milan is a capable club which doesn't rely on the refs like Juve and Inter did? Nothing more need to be said, anybody who tried to say Milan is a dirty club is just plain ignorant.

I remember Roma giving gold watches to refs as gifts and nobody questioned them for it?

This is getting rediculous

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/6582631.stm

we only had 10 players train and look like having to put Fletcher in defence, down to only 3 real defenders fit now If this continues we'll have to borrow a few of Milans subs just to keep the numbers fair!

Originally Posted by Stezagud

This is getting rediculous

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/6582631.stm

we only had 10 players train and look like having to put Fletcher in defence, down to only 3 real defenders fit now If this continues we'll have to borrow a few of Milans subs just to keep the numbers fair!

I think Evra would make it and the defense would be comprised of Oshea, Brown, Heinze, Evra (this is how I'd put them from RB to LB) with Fletcher either on the bench (if Scholes plays) or playing alongside Carrick, ready to switch to defense if one fo teh defenders happens to be injured can't continue.

i think manU will be able to put up a very good first 11 - only absentee from the team that beat Roma 7-1 could well be Ferdinand.
What manU's main problem would be IMO is that these injuries haven't allowed for any rotation recently and the available players will not be as fresh as most manU fans would like them to be ... and also, the bench for Manu will comprise of probably only Scholes/Fletcher and Solskjaer as senior players ... the rest would probably have to be youth team players ... this won't give Fergi much of a choice if things for manU aren't going well and he needs to change tactics and freshen up things on the field.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

What manU's problem would be IMO is that these injuries haven't allowed for any rotation recently and the available players will not be as fresh as most manU fans would like them to be ... and also, the bench for Manu will comprise of probably only Scholes/Fletcher and Solskjaer as senior players ... the rest would probably have to be youth team players.

Great insight.

Anyway Stezagud, I'm just curious, you are rooting for Milan or Man U in the two leagues? I'm just a little bit confused with your contention that "we only had 10 players train...". I know that you are a Man U supporter but I'm wondering which side you are hoping for a win here!

Originally Posted by Jeff

Anyway Stezagud, I'm just curious, you are rooting for Milan or Man U in the two leagues? I'm just a little bit confused with your contention that "we only had 10 players train...". I know that you are a Man U supporter but I'm wondering which side you are hoping for a win here!

he is rooting for ManU in this tie ... traitor

I think Evra would make it and the defense would be comprised of Oshea, Brown, Heinze, Evra (this is how I'd put them from RB to LB) with Fletcher either on the bench (if Scholes plays) or playing alongside Carrick, ready to switch to defense if one fo teh defenders happens to be injured can't continue.

Thats likely if Evra makes it, but the most recent reports (more recent than the one posted) are saying Evra is only going to be fit enough for a place on the bench. Scholes will almost certainly play though, he is Utds most composed midfielder and a match for any of Milans at keeping possession, which is what both teams will be doing a lot of. Fletcher is a decent player but the sometimes he gets ideas and flies out of position...

i think manU will be able to put up a very good first 11 - only absentee from the team that beat Roma 7-1 could well be Ferdinand.
What manU's main problem would be IMO is that these injuries haven't allowed for any rotation recently and the available players will not be as fresh as most manU fans would like them to be ... and also, the bench for Manu will comprise of probably only Scholes/Fletcher and Solskjaer as senior players ... the rest would probably have to be youth team players ... this won't give Fergi much of a choice if things for manU aren't going well and he needs to change tactics and freshen up things on the field.

The only absentee is Ferdinand but he is a pretty big miss! £30m of truly world class CB who has been rock solid all year long to be replaced by....John O Shea! a guy who has many nicknames amongst Utd fans, O' Shaky being probably the nicest of them

As you point out the players aren't going to be fresh, Fergie tried to rest Giggs at the weekend but an injury to Richardson forced him into playing. The major problem as i told the sock guy is that our midfield will be stuck, they all naturally want to get forward at will and force Milan onto the back foot, but they will all be aware of the fact the defence is seriously weaker than usual and will be worried about overcommiting. This leads to what happened vs Boro where we were isolated up front because the midfield were scared of being hit on the break and ended up with a disjointed performance.

It really is perfect for Milan, when the tie was made it was 50/50 or maybe even slightly in Utds favour for who would qualify, right now though the gambler within me would rate it 70/30 in Milans favour at least. A weaker team might not have the know how to exploit Utds troubles but Milan have all the experience to make the most of it. I said in another thread i would be delighted if Utd can avoid defeat tommorow and a draw would be an excellent result :cool;

Originally Posted by Jeff

Awarding Inter Milan the champion last year is a complete joke

It is, and calling it an ethic scudetto is even bigger joke.

Now we can even be happy they couldn't prove at least 1 match being fixed so they had to call the whole league fixed. Otherwise even the 2004/05 scudetto would have been awarded to Inter. This way noone can get that scudetto because the whole league was fixed according to them.

Although it's not the time and the place, i have to mention another thing connected to the latest accusations. I'm doing this just to show you how "proffesionally" the prosecution did their job.

According to the official documents from the prosecutors :
" Moggi fixed the match played on September 26 , 2004, Udinese-Brescia 1:2, so that Pinzi, Muntari e Di Michele get booked, so that they couldn't play the following match against Juventus. In that same match Jankuloski got sent off."

Nothing's strange on first glance. But :

1 . De Sanctis, Udinese goalkeeper was injured, lying in pain on the ground when Brescia scored a goal. Pinzi, Muntari and Di Michele were furious and protested, using some faul language. For that they got booked.
Jankulovski brutally punched an opponent on the face and he got a direct red for that.

2. To me it's pretty clear why were these players booked, but to the prosecutors it's Moggi who aranged these players to get booked and miss the next match against Juve.

3. We can give them the benefit of the doubt ( eventhough it's pretty obvious why were they booked) and accept that the ref gave them cards because Moggi told him so .
But then ......

4. Why did they all play against Juventus ?
Maybe because none of them was a yellow card away from suspension ?

The prosecution acused Moggi for fixing Pinzi, Muntari and Di Michele to get a yellow and miss the trip to Torino, but they didn't even check how none of these players was a yellow away from being banned and how they all had the right to play against Juve, and actually played on that match in Torino.

Isn't this amateurish ????????


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Ok, enough off topic. This time i prepared you the past results between Milan and Man Utd, and the past results between Milan vs English teams , ManU vs Italian teams , English vs Italian teams.
Enjoy the tradition :


1. Milan and Manchester met 6 times in their history. All 6 matches were of high importance, and all 6 matches were played in Champions Cup/League ( they never met in Uefa Cup, Cup Winners Cup, Intertoto or Super Cup).

Of these 6 matches, Milan won 4 and lost 2 with goal difference 9:3
Everytime Milan played against ManUtd ( twice in the semifinals and once in the quarters) , the Italians were eliminating Manchester and played in the European final ( lost it twice and won it once)

2. Milan played 25 official matches against English teams.
9 wins - 9 draws- 7 defeats ( 30:23)

3 Manchester Utd played 25 matches against Italian teams
10 wins-3 draws-12 defeats ( 32:32)

4. Italians played 152 official matches against English teams
55 wins-40 draws-57 defeats ( 167:177)



Looks like tradition is on Milan's side here.



Edit : Grrrrrr, looks like curry chicken was faster

Originally Posted by Stezagud

The only absentee is Ferdinand but he is a pretty big miss! £30m of truly world class CB who has been rock solid all year long to be replaced by....John O Shea! a guy who has many nicknames amongst Utd fans, O' Shaky being probably the nicest of them

true, Ferdinand is probably ManU's best defender but i think Brown and Heinze in CD would form a pretty good pair, although I suspect that Fergi would play Oshea and Brown.
Still, if Milan wins/dominates this game, I don't think that the main reason would be Ferdinand's absence - all the rest would be more or less the same from that game vs Roma - as one player missing cannot make a dif from beating Roma 7-1 to being outplayed by Milan.
The main factors fro that would be 1) All other ManU players will not be as fresh as they were before 2) lack of options on the bench and most importantly 3) Milan's approach to the game, which I expect to be very dif than Roma's.

Other than that, manU will still be able to field a very strong squad with only problems being in defense but I believe that players like Oshe, Brown, heinze, and one of neville/Evra/Fletcher can form a very good back 4 if used wisely.
And let's not forget the fact that manU plays at home - the players could draw extra inspiration from that - and Milan will also be more conservative than they would have normally been if the game was played at the SS ... this would take a big load off the defender's shoulders.

All in all, IMO manu's problems aren't in the first 11 they will field tomorrow but what's beyond those starting players i.e. lack of back-up options.

No point talking about players that are not on the squad. Milan cant play Ronaldo and Pippo is injured. And those two are our best forwards. They are gone, so what?? You play with the players you have. United's defence consistiong of O'shea-Brown-Heinze-Evra is not bad at all! Puls, their midfield is super strong.

Lets just fight with 150% of our power and hope we can progress in 2
tough matches. Its not our fault they played Rio when they knew he is half injured. Lets show no mercy and play the best we can to exploit week points of united.

And the most difficult thing is to win the match in the middle of the field, only then you can exploit their defence.

Originally Posted by mrki

And the most difficult thing is to win the match in the middle of the field, only then you can exploit their defence.

I agree and that's where the match is uaually determined. The last time we met Man U, they were outclassed totally in midfield and it make a huge difference. This time round, i am pretty confident we can win the battle in midfield yet again. No disrespect to any Man U midfielders, none of them can match up to Pirlo and Gatusso in our midfield. Even seedorf look to be in fine form recently.
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"Manchester United are a better team now than a couple of years ago, particularly as some players have matured and developed like Ronaldo and Rooney," Maldini told the press on the eve of the game.

"But there's no doubt we're up there with them and are up to the task.

"The fact we're in the semi-final shows our class."

Asked about the 7-1 win, the Rossenri skipper coolly responded: "When United saw our performance against Bayern they would certainly have thought that it would have been better to face Bayern in the semi-finals than us.

"We have huge respect for Manchester United but no fear.

"They play wonderful football, especially here, but what happened against Roma will have no impact on our dressing room and how we approach the game.

"I'm proud to be here and be captain of my team. We're motivated by the fact we want to win the Champions League, which has been our main aim throughout this season.

"We have always been a leading club in Europe, and Italy, over the last 20 years and we want to show why."

Almost inevitably, the discussion shifted to Cristiano Ronaldo, the new PFA Player of the Year. There have been suggestions that he will marked out of the game by one Milan player, probably even Maldini himself.

"Ronaldo has everything: he's fast, good in the air, scores goals and is creative," said Maldini. "But we don't man mark any players so, to a certain extent, he'll decide who marks him by where he is on the pitch."
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coming from the great Maldini, he speak with so much class. Respect for the opponents while stating the facts that we are a strong team. Compared with all those clowns from Man U who still think we are going to roll over like Roma.

Recently I've seen a lot of trash talk with regards to this match with Milan given no hope. Quite frankly I ask for nothing more, because we're used to being the underdogs, so this isn't a new situation to us, so we just remain focused on the match.

Firstly, I don't think Man U are as good as people claim. Take away the recent Roma match, and nothing of note has been accomplished by them this CL that's particularly extraordinary. Neither has their recent form been worth shouting about (with exception to Roma again).

Tactically, I feel Carlo is correct in saying Man U are predictable. They have a very talented group of players, but tactically rarely change from what works for them, which includes fast, direct, counterattacking football based around the supply of the center midfield (usually Carrick and Scholes) and fast pace and movement of Ronaldo, Rooney and Giggs.

To stop them, I'd say that we must dominate the midfield. Key players to put pressure on include those mentioned above. A pressing game will break their ability to really pick up pace against our side, though we must be sure not to overcommit when pushing forward as we could end up victims to their attacking play. Essentially, we must also break the flow of the game whenever they look like they're gathering pace.

A tight marking system between Rino and Ambro should stunt the chances Ronaldo and Giggs get, whilst it's up to the other midfielders to press Scholes and Carrick (Kaka and Seedorf will be important).

My main worry is our fullbacks, who really can't afford to have off days in these matches, because their defensive skills are vital to stop Man U's wide attacks, as well as us needing them to work with Rino and Ambro to double up on the United attackers.

Our key area of focus when attacking should probably look to be to hit the space in between the midfield and defence of United, as Scholes and Carrick both push forward often leaving a gap. Usually Vidic and Rio will compensate for this, but I'm not sure how well Brown and Heinze will be able to do this.

Van Der Sar also looks a little shaky of late, and so to put him under pressure would be a good opportunity for us to cause havoc in already a bit of a weak United defence.

Tactically I think this is a tie that we won't have a great deal to worry about, because I think Carlo knows well what United will offer. If the players remain tactically sharp, mentally focused and clinical in their approach, there is little reason we can't win.

MILANISTI! PREPARE FOR GLORY!

FORZA MILAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!