Sheva is better than van Basten (?)

OK people I know it was already discussed on several occasions and this two giants were already compared a few times... but lets do it again, I mean what else we have to do?

I personally think that Sheva is "better" than Marco, even though it's considered otherwise, and there is some reasons for that misconception:
- Marco played in big national team (Holland) and Sheva plays in small Ukraine
- Marco was european, and Sheva is considered as foreigner
- Marco played in more greater Milan, and Sheva spent his first 4 years in weak Milan
- Marco achieved more trophies than Sheva

So because this 4 reasons Marco is considered a greater player than Sheva, but this is a mistake. I saw van Basten in action, and I have to say he is a great target-forward and nothing more. He has great finishing skills and a good ability to make himself available for his teammates in the box. I think u can compare him with van Nisteroj, same style. Marco just played in big teams with great players and there were always someone to assist.

But just look at Sheva, the things he does on the pitch are much more than just goal scoring. He sometimes go wide to flanks and act as a winger, or go down to midfield and plays behind the forward. Sheva knows how to score or assist, he also takes free kicks and helping out his defence at set-peices. The only striker that has some of this qualities is Henry, but Sheva ofcause much more better. And what about his great personality, he always works for the team and not for himself. And what about some great goals that he scored, some of that goals are at Pele-Maradona level. I mean Sheva is a perfect goal-scoring machine, he can score all kind of goals from all kinds situations (head, right foot, left foot, inside the box, outside the box, in one touch or after overcoming couple defenders, both spectacular and simple goals, u name it). So I think he is much more better than Marco, and surely the best striker today.

Interesting if not controversial poll. To me, currently, Marco is still ahead of Sheva overall. Considering the big man had is career cut drastically short, he could’ve have 6 more glorious years easily. I think Marco was a better player inside the box, more intelligent user of the ball, and Sheva is better outside the box, as well as physically stronger. Don't get me wrong, Sheva is a fantastic player but he's not quite on the same level yet imho. Maybe a winning brace in the CL final could help that. Yes Marco played for the big teams and during a successful period but remember he did contribute to that success. If he wasn't good enough he wouldn't have won any of the trophies he did, and it's precisely because he scored important goals in important games and on the biggest stage that he's remembered amongst the greats.

I didn't say that Marco wasn't good, I just said that maybe he wasn't as good as people think. For example if u took him and put in Milan's squad in years 2000-2002, I don't think he would be as much succesfull. I think more and more that he is like Rud van Nisteroj, same level.

Well this is a highly contentious point indeed. There are a few things we need to consider here though. Marco was in my opinion the best finisher I have ever seen. Better than Di Steffano, Nordhal and yes Pele. As snapster pointed out his use of the ball in the box was amazing and his ability to loose markers and spin away into space was legendary. What he lacked was ability to bring others into the play and drop deep and start a move off himself. Things Sheva does.
I think Marco is technically better than Sheva but the latter is much more of a team player.

Thing is though, and this is constantly overlooked by many. A player starts to come into their prime in the late 20's 27-30 being the golden era i.e. Sheva. Marco retired at 28, but what people dont realise is that he didn't play for 2years before that due to the injuries that caused his retirement. So the last we saw of Marco was at 26!!! So to be thought of as one of the greats after only half a career takes some doing wouldn't you say?

ireqk: player starts to come into their prime in the late 20's 27-30 being the golden era

I don't agree with that statement, Ronaldo for example was much more sharper and better in his younger age. Sheva too lost some skills in this past years, I remember when he was younger he looked much more dangerous, storming defences combinig speed and techniqe. Younger players usualy more sharper and faster than the olders...

Originally Posted by iregk

Well this is a highly contentious point indeed. There are a few things we need to consider here though. Marco was in my opinion the best finisher I have ever seen. Better than Di Steffano, Nordhal and yes Pele. As snapster pointed out his use of the ball in the box was amazing and his ability to loose markers and spin away into space was legendary. What he lacked was ability to bring others into the play and drop deep and start a move off himself. Things Sheva does.
I think Marco is technically better than Sheva but the latter is much more of a team player.

Very good point indeed.
However,I guess solely on this basis of `team player` and presuming i have to say one, i`d say sheva is `better`,but as many of you mentioned,rather controversial and impossible to analyse.Both genius..simple as that.

Originally Posted by Sash21

I personally think that Sheva is "better" than Marco, even though it's considered otherwise, and there is some reasons for that misconception:
- Marco played in big national team (Holland) and Sheva plays in small Ukraine
- Marco was european, and Sheva is considered as foreigner
- Marco played in more greater Milan, and Sheva spent his first 4 years in weak Milan
- Marco achieved more trophies than Sheva

- Marco led Holland to their only title EVER, they are not a big national team.
- Eh? Both where considered as much foreigners by the club. How can this be considered a argument?
- Marco on the other hand played in Italy when the league was the most defensive it had possibly ever been, up until 1991 and his career was over in 1992. Milan was only dominant just by the end of his career too, as several - other teams won the scudetto the years before 1992.
- True and that may say a lot, especially since he was crucial in winning several of them.

So because this 4 reasons Marco is considered a greater player than Sheva, but this is a mistake. I saw van Basten in action, and I have to say he is a great target-forward and nothing more. He has great finishing skills and a good ability to make himself available for his teammates in the box. I think u can compare him with van Nisteroj, same style. Marco just played in big teams with great players and there were always someone to assist.

What a load of bull****! Van Basten was a complete player, he had lots of assists, much more than Sheva ever had. He scored quite a few goals outside of the area and his technical skills have only been surpassed by Maradona of the players I seen playing. Van Nistelrooy is mostly good the last few meters, while Van Basten could scored from all situations and angles. The only skill Sheva may be better at is his ability to dribble and chest the ball to his feet.

But just look at Sheva, the things he does on the pitch are much more than just goal scoring. He sometimes go wide to flanks and act as a winger, or go down to midfield and plays behind the forward.

Just because his role have been more diverse doesn't make him better. As said Van Basten was a better assist man

Sheva knows how to score or assist, he also takes free kicks and helping out his defence at set-peices. The only striker that has some of this qualities is Henry, but Sheva ofcause much more better.

Eh? Have you seen Van Basten? I think you are lying when you say that. 1. van Basten also scored on freekicks even if he seldom took them, Sheva take many of ours but is not even our best taker. 2. Van Basten had a greater vision and assisted more than Sheva ever done, never would we have seen threads about how selfish he was. We had several of those about Shevchenko. 3. Van Basten also helped in defensive set-pieces and he was better than Sheva at it, since he was better on heading. 4. Sheva is NOT much better than Henry, I would say they are about the same level. Only fanoys claim one great player is "much more better" than another.

And what about his great personality, he always works for the team and not for himself.

I see nothing better nor worse in his peronality then Van Basten, Marco who didn't even blame the players that injuried him for the injuries.

And what about some great goals that he scored, some of that goals are at Pele-Maradona level.

Van Basten had one of his goals voted goal of the century (Bicycletas in the top corner in Holland), he also scored one of the most famous goals in international football ever and that in a final as the deciding goal.

I mean Sheva is a perfect goal-scoring machine, he can score all kind of goals from all kinds situations (head, right foot, left foot, inside the box, outside the box, in one touch or after overcoming couple defenders, both spectacular and simple goals, u name it). So I think he is much more better than Marco, and surely the best striker today.

Marco easily could do all these things and he also scored several bicycletas, something I never seen Sheva score with.

I smell the strong stench of a fanboy here. and put my comments in bold

Originally Posted by Sash21

I didn't say that Marco wasn't good, I just said that maybe he wasn't as good as people think. For example if u took him and put in Milan's squad in years 2000-2002, I don't think he would be as much succesfull. I think more and more that he is like Rud van Nisteroj, same level.

Nonsense.

Originally Posted by Sash21

I don't agree with that statement, Ronaldo for example was much more sharper and better in his younger age. Sheva too lost some skills in this past years, I remember when he was younger he looked much more dangerous, storming defences combinig speed and techniqe. Younger players usualy more sharper and faster than the olders...

But it goes for Van Basten who never had been better than when he injuried himself. He had 12 goals in 14 serie A games and scored loads in champions league, hitting in 4 against IFK Gothenburg, including a bicycletas. He was injuried when he was the undisputed number one player in the world.

- Marco led Holland to their only title EVER, they are not a big national team.

What do u consider as a "big" team? They had players like Gulit, Rijkard and Koeman on their squad so what are u talking about???? Dutch national team considered to be one of the best, and produced every decade since 70's great players, if that's not a big team I don't know what is.

-Eh? Both where considered as much foreigners by the club. How can this be considered a argument?

I said "european", that means that Holland is part of european comunity and it's easier to western players to progress than to players from countries like ukraine. Many east-european players felt mistreated like Stoichkov, and even Sheva himself once said that his origin maybe harming his chances to win the Golden Ball.

- Marco on the other hand played in Italy when the league was the most defensive it had possibly ever been, up until 1991 and his career was over in 1992. Milan was only dominant just by the end of his career too, as several - other teams won the scudetto the years before 1992.

I don't understabd what are u trying to say here? Milan in that years won 3 champion league titles, and is remembered as "Grande Milan"... and if u look at Milan of 00-02 u will see that nothing "grande" about it (except Sheva ofcause). I think in that poor Milan even Pele or Maradona were useless.

Van Basten had one of his goals voted goal of the century (Bicycletas in the top corner in Holland), he also scored one of the most famous goals in international football ever and that in a final as the deciding goal.

That goal in the final against USSR was great, but not deciding (it doubled the lead) and all he did is to score a spectacular volley, great goal I admit but it's nothing compare to Sheva's famous goal against Juve. Sheva scored greater goals, like against Juventus or Udinese. I can remember many of that great goals, even this year against Lazio or last year against Depor. I admit that he never scored a bycicletas, but I prefer to see him overcoming 2-3 defenders in the way to goal... I remember him playing at Dynamo in CL99 against Real and Bayern, man it was like Sheva against the whole team... and what about that famous hat-trick against Barca at Nou-Camp??? It was him against 5-6 Barca players... I just don't remember van Basten doing anything like this, I admit that Marco maybe is better finisher, but all of his goals that i can remember scored indside the box after he get the assist... some of them are great, but still he depended to much on his teammates help.
Some of ur arguements were complete nonsense, and it's like arguing if the sky are blue or not. Holland 88 and Milan 89-92 considered as one of the greatest teams ever, even I could score couple of goals in that teams... so please just think before u say or type anything. How can u compare Milan 00-03 and Milan 89-92??????? or Ukraine and Holland 88?????????????????????? Go see a doctor.... Still I think that Marco is a better version of RvN who had fortune to play in big clubs and win some glory.

Originally Posted by Sash21

What do u consider as a "big" team? They had players like Gulit, Rijkard and Koeman on their squad so what are u talking about???? Dutch national team considered to be one of the best, and produced every decade since 70's great players, if that's not a big team I don't know what is.


They had two good periods, just like Ukraine was great longer back in time, but they are a new team. can't compare them with teams that have been here for long. A big national team is Germany, Italy and Brazil

I said "european", that means that Holland is part of european comunity and it's easier to western players to progress than to players from countries like ukraine. Many east-european players felt mistreated like Stoichkov, and even Sheva himself once said that his origin maybe harming his chances to win the Golden Ball.

Pure and utter nonsense. Is that why the Brazilians work so well in Italy? Because they are europans? huh? they are not. Back when Van Basten played there was also a rule for only 3 non-Italians in the team, todays there are no regulations. The thing that Sheva said have more to do with him not playing the big tournaments.

I don't understabd what are u trying to say here? Milan in that years won 3 champion league titles, and is remembered as "Grande Milan"... and if u look at Milan of 00-02 u will see that nothing "grande" about it (except Sheva ofcause). I think in that poor Milan even Pele or Maradona were useless.

The team was more stable then of course since players didn't change clubs as often. But Milan wasn't dominant in Italy until 1991, where they went on and won several years in a row. Before that teams like Sampdoria and Napoli also won. Sure the team Sheva played in wasn't as good in those years, but did he make much out of that? No, he was just one of the best in a team with problems.

That goal in the final against USSR was great, but not deciding (it doubled the lead) and all he did is to score a spectacular volley, great goal I admit but it's nothing compare to Sheva's famous goal against Juve.

Sheva goal against Juve was a fluke as he admitted he didn't try for goal. Van Bastens goal was a incredible technical achievement that most players can only dream about. I think you are quite alone on this one. And Van Bastens goal was quite deciding, Holland was under pressure for most of the match. Let me add that he also assisted the first goal in that game.

Sheva scored greater goals, like against Juventus or Udinese. I can remember many of that great goals, even this year against Lazio or last year against Depor. I admit that he never scored a bycicletas, but I prefer to see him overcoming 2-3 defenders in the way to goal... I remember him playing at Dynamo in CL99 against Real and Bayern, man it was like Sheva against the whole team... and what about that famous hat-trick against Barca at Nou-Camp??? It was him against 5-6 Barca players... I just don't remember van Basten doing anything like this, I admit that Marco maybe is better finisher, but all of his goals that i can remember scored indside the box after he get the assist... some of them are great, but still he depended to much on his teammates help.

Sheva scored a couple of solo goal on counterattacks when he played in a team like that. I wonder what goal did he dribble 2-3 defenders? Huh? If we compare their careers before they came to Milan Sheva is in the shadow of Van Basten who managed to score 37 goals in 26 games one season in Ajax and scored a goal a game in total. Otherwise you make up things.

Some of ur arguements were complete nonsense, and it's like arguing if the sky are blue or not.

Well you have no arguments at all. jsut trying to say Sheva is better because you liked his goals and you think he played in a worse team. I guess that makes Matt LeTissier the best player ever considering what he did in Southampton...

Holland 88 and Milan 89-92 considered as one of the greatest teams ever, even I could score couple of goals in that teams...

[b]Sure you could, but could you decide several finals with your goal and assists? Against the best teams? Could you carry Milan in 1992/93 after Van Bastens injury? After his injury our goalproduction went fast downhill. Our fall from being the undisputed best team in the world (not losing any games at all, winning all champions league games that season) coincided with his injury.

so please just think before u say or type anything. How can u compare Milan 00-03 and Milan 89-92??????? or Ukraine and Holland

Why should I compare them? oh, Milan won the UCL -03. Milan 89-92 was great because Van Basten played with them, it slowly declined after that, since he could not be replaced.

88?????????????????????? Go see a doctor.... Still I think that Marco is a better version of RvN who had fortune to play in big clubs and win some glory.

Find yourself a brainsurgeon.

Answers in bold again. Yes I guess the ones that also gave Marco Van Basten 3 europan player of the year awards just happened to forget he played in a great team and just a had a cakewalk scoring all those goals, assisting them and so on. They are French, so obviously they are biased to the Dutch...

It should also be noted that Van Basten got injuried already in his first year in Milan and that was not the only time. Always the same injury on his ancle.

i have to say sheva, because i have seen him play and practically grew up with him while i have never seen van basten play (only on tapes)

Originally Posted by ac_milan_foreva

i have to say sheva, because i have seen him play and practically grew up with him while i have never seen van basten play (only on tapes)

so basically you don't know, but voted despite that? brilliant

Originally Posted by kris

so basically you don't know, but voted despite that? brilliant

Exactly! And I bet others did the same thing. You need to live the two eras in order to vote based on the performance of the two players, and not hte reputation. That is why I'll go with MVB.

My point is that I canot compare them... I have only seen Sheva on pitch...and I almost dont remember Marco... so I havent voted

Well I was old enough to live through the Van Basten period and I have to tell you Sheva is good, but listen without any bias. He needs to do some catching up to impress me as compared to Van Basten. He's on the right track but to compare him to Van Basten or to say he is better than the swann is a bit too early.
The game was played differently back then. Plus if you think a player like Materazzi was one too many dirty defenders, Van Basten had to deal with backs worse than Marco Materazzi. Why do you think his career was cut so short.\
To tell you the truth to ponder the question of who is better is not too wise. It's like comparing the beauty of mother to that of maybe your grandmother. there is no context into understanding the time or setting at that particular moment.

Originally Posted by Sash21

Sheva too lost some skills in this past years, I remember when he was younger he looked much more dangerous, storming defences combinig speed and techniqe.

Big WOW....
He lost some but he got only 1, balon d'or

Originally Posted by Sash21

Younger players usualy more sharper and faster than the olders...

Faster ?? I agree...

but sharper ?? I dont think so...
Experience could increase sense of goal...