All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Tony 29

I was just reading this topic and this Franco's sentence really got me...

Franco, first of all, there is no need for you and all the other Milan fans always to mention this sentence, we've heared it allready. And why do You always have to use this sentence? Were you brainwashed and this is the only thing you've learned and you immediately have to say it to a Juve fan ?

A question. For how long do you support Milan? 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, or maybe even 10 years? Lets make it 10 years, ok ?
So what do we have in these 10 years. Juve won 5 Scudetto's Milan only 3. Of course, your answer will be : Juve bought the refs...and then you'll continue : But where are you in Europe ? You're pathetic in Europe, we are the ones who rule Europe.

Is it really so ?
Ok, Milan won 1 CL in these 10 years...Juve, also 1 CL trophy. So, where is the difference?
Maybe Milan is better because they have played in 2 finals in last 10 years, and Juve in only 4 ?
Or maybe because Milan played in 3 semifinals and Juve in only 5 ?
Or maybe because Milan played in 4 quarterfinals and Juve in only 7 quarterfinals ?

Where is Milan better than Juve in last 10 years in Europe ?
Your words: Refs do not help Juve in Europe. Then how the hell did Juve won exactly the same number of CL's as Milan, and played in more finals, semis and quarters than Milan did in last 10 years, since Moggi is with Juventus ????

I would really appriciate an answer from some of you on my questions. Sorry to open this discussion, but it really bothers me when people only hear what they want to hear and they only repeat it, without even trying to think if it's true or not.

This is a manipulative question, because you must know that, if you go to 12-13-14 years, we add 3 CL cups more, 4 scudetti and every kind of silverware you can think about.
10 years is just the measure you need to have an evidence for your argumentations.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Noble sentiments Kui, but unfortunately, I for one, would be all for Juve to be relegated to Serie C200, and even if Milan are guilty as hell...I still wouldnt want us sanctioned in any way...this is my honest, but self-acknowledged bias...I am a Milan fan first and foremost, not a fan of football, or of fair play...that comes second to a victorious Milan..of course I do prefer when we win with style, panache and skill

Than sadly Warro you and others find this conspiracy only as an advantage for Milan and Milan only and not for the good of the League and of the game. It bears the appearance as I said of that who covets. No wonder the cheap route of "conspiracy" is so prevalent in the psyche of the non-juve fan. I have yet to see any drawn out schematic of how this conspiracy is working. Furthremore I think most people dont even know how a conspiracy works. You've failed to actually step back and look at this objectively as you've earlier claimed. Why??? Milan first and foremost was pretty much your answer. You know this kind of cr@p doesnt solve any problems that Calcio Italia is having. Somehow you've come under the impression that the bad reputation of Calcio is and ONLY is because of the makings and doings of Juve and their minions. You've failed to notice the "other" club who has taken one half of the profits of scudetti in the past 15 years. So did Juve gifted these titles to us??? They must have said... "yeah lets give em one this year" to like all of our Scudetto since Agnelli (who's dead I remind you!) been at the helm of Juve for decades. Afterall they would have that power to do that right? How can we win any of our scudetti honestly if one team is doing bribing. You seem to be so sure that we wouldnt do that either. And I'm also in the middle of all of this cr@p supposed to take this scandal as truth the very same time when Coach Carlo is being called lousy and somehow he's so lousy that he wins us Scudetto numero 17 in the middle of Juve's match fixings. How can a "lousy" coach according to some here be able to pull this off? You see people are speaking what I consider "forked tongued" because the logic just isnt there. Is he lousy and did Juve gift us a Scudetto? OR Gee maybe coach Carlo isnt all that lousy at all and their isnt any d@mned conspiracy except in the idiocy of lesser men/women's minds. You also said that you think nothing will ever come out of this scandal. Why? I hope you didnt just come to one conclusion... that Juve has all the power to be so manipulative to actually influence the invesigators and law enforcement officials? Why are we so fixated at accussing that Juve's sh!t smells bad without even considering the thought that our sh!t smells just as awful. The sh!t smells so bad in Calcio Italia, we are hardly even in a position to even have an idea where the stink coming from!
Again I ask you Warro... What of players such as Sheva who dismissed this talk of conspiracy? Is he naive and we be the sages? One more reason to hope there is no scandal Warro because I dont think Sheva would be so naive to not drop Calcio Italia in a New York minute and go join his friend in London. Think about it and worry. No point at being so covetous when FIFA consider or even think to consider to sanction all of Serie A out of International competitions such as the CL and what not. Actually no dont think about it and worry. You already said Milan first and foremost. How could you be objective to think otherwise.

I redirect this discussion back to you Warro.

FORZA MILAN!

Originally Posted by Giovanni

This is a manipulative question, because you must know that, if you go to 12-13-14 years, we add 3 CL cups more, 4 scudetti and every kind of silverware you can think about.
10 years is just the measure you need to have an evidence for your argumentations.

Yes, yes..if we go 50 years back we'll get the final numbers of 6 versus 2, but that wasn't my point .
The topic is about Moggi, and it was not manipulative question, because those numbers i gave present Juventus while Moggi is general director.
And i missed one year, season 1994/95, his first season. So, you can add one more Scudetto to Juventus, and one more CL final to Milan.

It's still Juve ahead of Milan in Europe even if we add the first season !

Again I have to disclose this to you Warro.

Originally Posted by Warro

I cannt see Milan granting Juve any "favours", except where transfers are concerned...but I can see Siena doing Juve a favor...

Yet we can honestly win the 17 Scudetto from the title fixers huh? You dont think Milan does any favors but cant look at the possibilty that if Juve are the fixers we were gifted the Scudetto in 2003-2004 season. Maybe the shrooms in Jamaica are a bit more potent than the ones in Hawaii.

One thing to ponder on though kris. Why the utter silence?

Originally Posted by kris

Many prominent figures have complained officially BEFORE this happened, you must live in dream land to believe none will do it now. There have already been rumours and talk about teams protesting by not participating in the league if they are not punished. Guys like Zeman and Baldini for sure will be talking, clubs like Fiorentina and Sampdoria can't be expected to not mention it.

A message to those willing to talk... any friggin minute sweetheart! Come on Zeman Baldini! Years of talking about this so indiscriminately and not even a fart sfter this "revelation". Take your time! No rush.

Originally Posted by rahul.acm

Sign this petition for zebras in B

I will not. As much as I am an antiJUve Fan, it is my belief that signing this death warrant of Juve is also signing our own club's death warrant. I wont have this nonsense leading our head to the chopping block. I will not be the Vitellius signing Otho's death warrant. I will not be the Thomas Cromwell sigining Thomas More's death. None of this lest I am so naive to think that my head wont come off next.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

So, now we have 2 Lombardy teams involved in the scandal. Lets only assume that Milan is one of them..will you sign a petition for Milan in Serie C if Milan gets to be one of the 2 teams ?

i just got this:

Originally Posted by Ruffian

The article didn't say the clubs were all in Serie A. Gazzetta names the clubs under investigation: Juve, Lazio, Fiorentina, Udinese, Siena, Messina, Arezzo, Crotone and Avellino.

Well thank God for that! I was afraid that we'd be involved, but according to Gazzetta we're not.

Originally Posted by kris

The article didn't say the clubs were all in Serie A. Gazzetta names the clubs under investigation: Juve, Lazio, Fiorentina, Udinese, Siena, Messina, Arezzo, Crotone and Avellino

You mean the same Fiorentina whose club execs were blasting Juve for match fixings huh???

Originally Posted by devoted_dm

Well thank God for that! I was afraid that we'd be involved, but according to Gazzetta we're not.

Not yet you mean! WOW! Hoooray! We'll win the trophy next year cause we are too stupid to realize that there might not be a Serie A
THINK GUYS!

Originally Posted by Kui

One thing to ponder on though kris. Why the utter silence?

IF I were Milan management, I think it will be better for any player/staff not to talk about it at this stage of the time:

1) It's still under investigation
2) The last game is approaching.

I don't see any reason why they have to come out and 'make a fart' for Milan. It's not Milan's style after all, right?

Originally Posted by Jeff

IF I were Milan management, I think it will be better for any player/staff not to talk about it at this stage of the time:

1) It's still under investigation
2) The last game is approaching.

I don't see any reason why they have to come out and 'make a fart' for Milan. It's not Milan's style after all, right?

I have always considered Jeff to be someone whose brain's faster than his mouth

Originally Posted by Jeff

IF I were Milan management, I think it will be better for any player/staff not to talk about it at this stage of the time:

1) It's still under investigation
2) The last game is approaching.

As should the realm of public opinion especially for a country who's got just a World Cup to worry about with this stigma in the air. So when will we hear from Milan??? Like never.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I don't see any reason why they have to come out and 'make a fart' for Milan. It's not Milan's style after all, right?

I'm talking about Baldini and Zeman. Hardly... well actually never had your thoughts in consideration at all.

Originally Posted by Kui

Again I ask you Warro... What of players such as Sheva who dismissed this talk of conspiracy? Is he naive and we be the sages? One more reason to hope there is no scandal Warro because I dont think Sheva would be so naive to not drop Calcio Italia in a New York minute and go join his friend in London. Think about it and worry. No point at being so covetous when FIFA consider or even think to consider to sanction all of Serie A out of International competitions such as the CL and what not. Actually no dont think about it and worry. You already said Milan first and foremost. How could you be objective to think otherwise.

I redirect this discussion back to you Warro.

Kui, as a fan, I can only rarely be objective, if at all...because Milan for me is foremost...but to answer your question re Sheva...the majority of players, including our Ukraine hero, that ply their trade in Italy, at whatever level, A thru C...have to believe that there is integrity in the league structure...or else, apart from a paycheck...why play?

Why play if despite your best efforts, no matter what, because a match is fixed, you could play brilliantly, score 3 goals (have them all disallowed) and still lose the match?

Therefore its only logical that they dont allow such thoughts to enter their minds. The few who are involved in match fixing (and some must be, I have no doubt) are doing it for entirely selfish reasons for the most part, and are to be held in the lowest regard.

I read an intresting point, (that when Juve and Inter, way back when, finished on the bottom, "changes to the league structure" prevented them from being relegated...how in God´s name can this league be fair...when we get relegated because a couple of our players, not management now, players, fixed the match and gambled on it...where is fairness in all this? We didnt finish bottom, but two big clubs who did avoid relegation...man...I cant even continue with this...its too upsetting.

But to get back to the issue: FIFA cant ban Serie A from competitions...UEFA would have to take that decision...and they wont. Simple as that..there is too much money at stake, and unless more than half of the serie A clubs are implicated, then it wouldnt make sense to have such a broad ban...

Originally Posted by Kui

Yet we can honestly win the 17 Scudetto from the title fixers huh? You dont think Milan does any favors but cant look at the possibilty that if Juve are the fixers we were gifted the Scudetto in 2003-2004 season. Maybe the shrooms in Jamaica are a bit more potent than the ones in Hawaii.

To answer the last question first: I doubt that they are...we do have some good herbs though...

Ok, I think that the 17th scudetto was won inspite of match fixing...as the tapes with Moggi show, fixing can sometimes fail...

Originally Posted by rahul.acm

so mr jobless,

does it mean that the more i point how fukedup gobbis are the more there is a possiblity of u "freeloaders" getting relegated? unfortunately it isn't and why the hell do i wanna talk abt something thats beyond my control? u guys are worse, and made it further worse after these phone taps sprung up. truly u guys are the biggest black spot on football. get a life or if u wanna fuk ur team the go here\ as pathetic as ever, dirty gobbis, thieves

rahul.acm, I am going to ask you, one more time, to refrain from using this kind of language on the site. Misspelling it makes no difference.

I understand your dislike for anything in black and white stripes, but this kind of language is uncalled for.

Thanks for your cooperation.

If Juve gets relegated all his players will be sold.
And if one of the charges is confirmed by a sentence, if a fraud is confirmed, give a relegation as 100% sure.

The charges are popping up in Napoli, Roma, and Torino (if i don't mistake).
They go from financial frauds, to threats, , to unfair competition on market, and other big ones. If one of them gets confirmed, and it seems we ignore the biggest part which is not public yet, Juve will be relegated and some throphies deleted (esp last year's scudetto).

Watching this scenario unbiasedly, i can say they have 5% of chances to avoid a condamn for any of these charges. These is the downfall of an era for Italian football.